What does /a/ think about love hina? It was the first legit weeaboo

>>144900240
bump

I will take that as a "we hate it"

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It's hit and miss for some, but it's undeniably a classic, one I think is good. Growing up, it was my third harem after Tenchi Muyo and El Hazard. It'll always have a special place in my heart. Also, it was one of the few early harem where the best girl won.

>>144900240
love hina literally ruined anime

>>144900240
I like. It has been 18 years for the manga and 16 years for the anime, but the series aged well even by today's standards.

>>144900667
why?

>>144900906
thanks
thanks
I also love the opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTa5CS-ZM9I

>>144900613
>>144901156

>>144900240
Not watching in Japanese, confirmed for fucking up your experience in the 90s.

>>144900240
Funny and cute.

Motoko is still best girl.

>>144900240
>It was the first legit weeaboo anime I ever saw
What did he mean by this?

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>>144900240
Let's just say Naru was my first waifu.

>>144900613
>best girl won
Good joke.

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I'm convinced that Love Hina is to blame for setting the standard for the genki/ara girl always losing. But that being said, I don't blame Love Hina itself. It wasn't the best show, but it was enjoyable to watch once.

Mutsumi really should have won. Though everyone with half a brain knew Naru was the winner from the start. Hence the standard she set.

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Mutsumi > Motoko > Shinobu > Kitsune > Kaolla >>>>>>>>> Naru

>>144900240
every girl is best girl

>>144903781
Naru > Kanako > Kaolla > Shinobu > Motoko > Kitsune >>> Mutsumi

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>>144900613
You are me except Love Hina was my 5th harem. I saw Nadesico and AMG as well before Love Hina.

>>144903781
Awesome taste.

>>144904676
Atrocious taste.

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>>144904863

>Nadesico
>AMG
>Harem

Eh? nadatte?

>>144903781
Shit taste.

>>144904676
Best taste.

Naru was my waifu!

>>144900613
Yeah same here. I watched Tenchi, then read this entire manga. It warmed my heart then. If it came out today I would not bother watching it.

>>144905391
Are you joking? AMG is obvious without need to say it. For Nadesico, Yurika, Ruri, Ryoko, and Erina had/have feelings for Akito.

>>144906275
needing*

>>144906275

Keiichi likes Belldandy right from the start. He doesn't have an attraction to Urd or Skuld or Peoerth or anyone else. And he even rejects the Fairy Queen in the movie.

And in Nadesico, a bunch of girls may like the MC. But he only likes one. Vandread is closer to being a harem than Nadesico is.

Learn what a harem is.

>>144906359
Next you'll say Love Hina and Tenchi Muyo aren't harem. Harem MC's feelings is irrelevant. Being constantly surrounded by more than 2 girls that have affections of all sorts = harem.

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>>144903781
>>144903244
Mein brothers of African ancestry.

>>144906359
So SAO isn't harem then?

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>>144900240
>remember watching Love Hina
>"weeaboo" didn't exist
>"HD" didn't exist
Thanks for the feels

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>>144906446

Love Hina is technically a love triangle if you just consider mutual attraction. But then you also have Shinobu and Matoko who like the MC. So I guess you can kind of say Love Hina is a Harem.

In Ah! Megami sama, Belldandy is the only one who likes Keiichi. Urd likes to tease him, but doesn't find him attractive. Skuld hates his guts for quite a while, then later in the manga she starts have feelings for him. Then the story quickly pairs her up with a boy of her own age and she no longer likes Keiichi. Poerth is just like Urd and has no attraction to the MC. And please don't tell you think his sister and the girl from the gear club like him, because they clearly don't. So in the end, its basically a straight love story.

>Being constantly surrounded by more than 2 girls that have affections of all sorts = harem.
No, that's just dumb. By your logic, Kimagure Orange Road is a harem, despite only having 2 girls. That's why its called a love TRIANGLE.

>>144900240
Love Hina is Nisekoi for early 2000's. It's better in some ways and worse in other ways. One could say Chitoge, who was the also best girl, won thanks to Love Hina's contributions in popularizing the trend set by Takahashi.

it's fucking awful

>>144906961
>Love Hina is technically a love triangle
I stopped there. You know jack shit about harem.

>>144906985
>Chitoge
>best girl
>ALSO the
Might want to get that shit taste checked out.

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>>144906985
>Chitoge
>Naru
>best girls

>>144907079

>stopped reading
Probably because you're afraid further reading will prove the point.

>>144906961
Seriously, with your logic SAO and Monogatari aren't harems then.

>>144907101
>>144907121
>Kosakifags
>Mutsumifags
Deal with it, shit tastefags.

The worst girl won.
Literally every girl was better than Naru.

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They would have to be divorced by now.

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>>144907101
>>144907121
Naru and Chitoge are the best girls.

>>144907286
The best girl won.*
Literally every girl was worse than Naru.*

>>144907220
>>144907305
>samefagging

>>144907325
Don't reply to me ever again.

>>144907191

I know it may be a shock to you. But sometimes a show doesn't fit perfectly into a generalized genre or demographic.

>>144907332
Try again.

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>>144907332
>Salty

>>144907370
cuck

I don't know what I'd think if I watched it today, but I have fond memories of watching it like 12 years ago. It gave me fluffy feelings. Maybe it started me on the path to 2D depravity. I don't regret it though.

Also, the music is still magical to me even today. Queue the complete collection thing and off I am to wonderland. Thanks in part to Okazaki Ritsuko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYM_bCqCTBE

>>144907220
>>144907305
>>144907325
>1 minute apart

>>144907370
You gotta be trolling.

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>>144907394

Kitsune best girl

>>144907405
>18:41:39
>18:42:07
Learn to math.

>>144907376
>>144907393
>literal phone posting

>>144900240
>first legit weeaboo anime
Not Ah My Goddess?

Nigga pls, I watched that shit on turboshit VCDs I burned from Kazaa.

>>144907405
First one is almost 2 mins and the second is less than a minute. Get your eyes checked.

>>144907101
>>144907121
>>144907332
>>144907405
Samefag.

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To Love Ru Hina

>>144907481
Whatever helps you sleep at night, Kosaki and Mutsumifag.

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Nearly a decade later and loserfags are still mad the best girl won.

>>144907481
No one can phonepost or edit that fast unless he's a machine or something. Stop being so butthurt because more than one person disagreed with your awful taste

>>144900240
It's the progenitor of everything wrong with Harems
>Childhood friend
Check
>Promise that you put way too much value on
Check, and Bonus points if much like the Promise here is retarded and makes no sense.
>Shitty overly violent Tsundere who should be checked into a mental home
Check
>Went on for too long because of drama
Check
>Wimpy beta MC
Check
>Wimpy Beta MC says he's going to try and get less wimpy but does not
Check
>Most if not all the other girls are left to live lonely lives devoid of love
Check
>Fanbase who acts contrarian to basic logic and the basic ideals of a working relationship because they want to act like Tsunderes aren't a serious mental illness.
Fucking Check.

>>144907790
>11 volumes
>too long

>>144900240
I never watched Love Hina, but I read the manga. It's funny how much I've changed. Back in those days I actually read localized physical copies of manga. Now I don't give even one shit about manga in any form.

>>144906359
>Learn what a harem is.
This. If a show has a clear, single winner, it's not a harem even if the MC had a million girls after his D.

>>144900240
It's a classic, but when compared to modern harem Love Hina can still compete and best many of them.

>>144907878
>it's not a harem even if the MC had a million girls after his D.
Listen up you faggots.

Monogatari is NOT a harem. Arararagi walked Hitagi home gently.
Sword Art Online is NOT a harem. Kirito is dating Asuna and had sex with her. TWO YEARS WORTH OF GLOP.
Mahouka is NOT a harem. Onii-sama is asexual, and can only have feelings for Miyuki.
Nisekoi is NOT a harem. Ichijou is in love with Onodera, and as the title suggest, his love for Chitoge is FAKE.
Toradora is NOT a harem. Taiga fucking won.
Yahari is NOT a harem. 8man has been shown to have no romantic interest in any of them, just sexual attraction.
Danmachi is NOT a harem. Bell is clearly shown to only have interest in Ais.
Index is NOT a harem. Touma punches every girl he meets. That's not love.
Log Horizon is NOT a harem. Shirou is not a pedo, and the only other valid contender is Akatsuki.
Cross Ange is NOT a harem. Ange is straight and has no feelings for Hilda. Plus She and Tusk had SEX.
Absolute Duo is NOT a harem. Why do you think it's called Absolute DUO and not Absolute HAREM?
The World God Only Knows is NOT a harem. Keima confessed his love to Chihiro!
Dog Days is NOT a harem. Cinque and Millhiore declared their love for each other. Rebecca has no chance.
OreShura is NOT a harem. Eita is dating Silver. They even kissed in front of everyone.
Love Hina is NOT a harem. Keitaro and Naru got married and they love each other very much.
Saekano is NOT a harem. It's about how to raise _A_ boring girlfriend.
Rakudai is NOT a harem. Ikki proposes to Stella in vol 3!

I repeat: Rakudai is NOT A HAREM.

>>144906985
Nisekoi is Love Hina done wrong.

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>>144908034
>Cross Ange is NOT a harem. Ange is straight and has no feelings for Hilda. Plus She and Tusk had SEX.
Great post, m8, had a good chuckle on this one.

>>144906961
>Ah! My Goddess
Thanks for reminding me of the NTR.

>>144907790
Careful, brah. You're gonna pop a vein with those hot opinions.

>>144900240
If I'm not mistaken, Narusegawa Naru was Yui Horie's breakout role. If there's one thing the anime did well, it was bringing her to life beautifully.

Also, I prefer Naru's healthier character design in the TV series vs the manga/Love Hina Again.

>>144907857
It should have been 6.
The entire time the audience could have told you Naru was the childhood 'friend'.
It was dragged by that, her inhuman Tsundere actions and reactions and more.

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>>144907790

The harems for the next 10 years did copy Love Hina. But it really didn't invent any of those things. Something like Ranma or Kimagure Orange Road should get the blame before Love Hina.

Even having a Tsubdere bitch win over the nice genki girl was done way before in KOR. And much MUCH worse as the entire show is built on a misunderstanding that could have been cleared up in episode 1. Love Hina at least uses the excuse that the girls can't remember all the details of the promise.

>>144908034
Nisekoi is NOT a harem. Ichijou is in love with Onodera, and as the title suggest, his love for Chitoge is FAKE.

Yahari is NOT a harem. 8man has been shown to have no romantic interest in any of them, just sexual attraction.

i mah triggered

>>144900240
>misusing weeaboo
lurk more fuck off

>>144907790
So if Mutsumi won then just replace your complaint about tsundere with
>overly boring doormat deredere who should be checked into a mental home
>act like doormat deredere aren't a serious mental illness

>>144908163
It's true though.
The more a harem follows this list, the worse it is.
I mean Hell look at World's End Harem
>Childhood friend
Check
>Promise that has too much value and is stupid
Check and Check
>Will go on too long because of Drama
Check
>Wimpy Beta MC
Check
>Wimpy Beta MC tries to get less wimpy
Made a promise he'd fuck after a month and then goes back on it making him not only more wimpy but more of a scummy dick
>Most if not all the other girls are left to live lonely lives devoid of love
Considering at best there are what was it? 50 million males in cryo sleep and that there are 5 billion women supposedly alive? I'm going to hazard a guess and say 200-500 million women are still going to end up lonely as fuck regardless if MC finds a cure or not
All it's missing is the Tsundere and fanbase, but thinking those will add to it is like thinking shitting on a dumpster fire will help

>>144900240
Garbage version of Nisekoi

>this thread
THK triggered alert.

>>144908428
Unless the MC beat her and she did nothing. No.
Naru on the other hand is actually violent. Which IS a case of mental illness you dumb contrarian fuck.
I know you probably think otherwise because you mommy was probably telling you it's okay because of the shiner your dad gave her after drinking some cheap shit to get his courage back, but in the civilized world that is called Domestic Abuse and is illegal.
Being a housewife who doesn't treat her spouse like shit is not.

>>144908428

If Mutsumi won, it would have torn the very fabric of Otaku culture and Love Hina would have become hated instead of the model for Harems. Then something like Green Green or Full Metal Panic would be blamed for starting the 'formula'.

>>144908486
No one cares, you crazy manic.

>>144908596
Then don't talk about Love Hina and other shitty harems and get told the truth.

>>144908428
I know I would. It woukd be as bad as Kosaki winning. That sort of trend would be the shittiest.

>>144908650
Make me. I love harem and you can't stop me from liking what I like.

>>144908650
>truth
Reddit pls.

>>144900240
loser mango done right, similar to Maison Ikkoku in that aspect, only thing that kinda sucked was Keitaro going full Seta at the end
Naru an her Tsudereness were qt to watch.

>>144908428
>Triggering THK's rationalization
Nice job.

>>144908661
Agreed.

>>144908689
Look Anon. I can't make you understand you've got a mental illness. I'm not a two bit shrink who sits you down for an hour and then puts you on pills to collect a paycheck.
I'm just some guy whose trying to get his jollies off to pregnant polygamous harems but keep getting MCs who'd sooner cut their own dicks off than actually fuck a woman whose mental condition is in the okay area.

>>144900613
In no way is Mary best girl. She's borderline abusive and she's boring as fuck. Keitaro's arc has him forming himself into a clone of Seta in order for her to accept him. It's stupid.

At least they should have made whom he'd end up with much more ambiguous, and given her some redeeming traits.

>>144908956
>Mary
For fucks sake, Naru - fuck autocorrect

>>144908801
It's funny how you project mental illness onto others and have this constant need to justify your own insecurities. If anything, you should get yourself checked. Especially when you take Chinese cartoons super seriously.

>>144900240
I knew how it was going to end within the first half of the first episode (This was my first harem mind you) - it's certainly no masterpiece. In spite of that it was some stupid fun I could easily settle into when I was in the mood.

>>144908372
This. Haremshit was around before Love Hina, and love triangle high school romcoms were already basically the same basic strategy with a couple different cliche sets as early as the late 70s with popular Adachi and Rumiko adaptations. People who blame Love Hina or think that this kind of thing is new need to read and watch more.

One thing I dislike in retrospect is that the girls just start falling fot Keitaro for no particular reason. Had he grown in a meaningful way, perhaps this would have made sense but he's an entitled, deluded autist for the entire manga/show.

>weeaboo anime
Don't use words if you don't know what they mean.

Inferior Maison Ikkoku, just not as bloated.

>>144909045
Liking Tsunderes is a mental illness though.
If you think normal well adjusted people, or even not so adjusted people are anything like Tsunderes you are so detached from real life that normal words can not reach you.
Let me in on a little secret. If you called someone stupid and then punched them in real life, that person would not fall in love with you. They would call the cops on you and have a restraining order placed on you.
So to not only think this archetype is acceptable, but are okay with it drawing a story out longer than it naturally should be and that they're not the worst characters for doing so, then you need to seek help.

>>144909270

The problem isn't with Keitaro as much as everyone else. He's a self aware protagonist surrounded by a cast of girls who want to stay in their make believe world. Except Mutsumi who actively admits her feelings early on and tries to get with him. She's basically Keitaro in female form. But the story forced Keitaro to keep holding out for Naru because reasons. That reason being because she was in episode 1 and Mutsumi wasn't.

>>144909506
>fiction isn't like real life
You just blew my mind.

>>144909506
>Caring about 3D realism
No one cares about your insane projections, normalfag.

Naru gave birth to shit like Houki.

She's the absolute worst.

>>144909506
You try way too hard. It's no less a mental illness than liking emotionless dandere, cold kuudere, crazy yandere, or plain deredere.

>>144909506
>Liking Tsunderes is a mental illness though.
No, but being unable to differentiate between fiction and reality is.

>>144909729
How so? Naru is based off Madoka with Ken's own brown of tsundere, but Houki isn't based off Naru in any way.

>>144909796
rekt'd.

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Good to see that /a/ can even ruin older anime.

>>144909828
>brown
Should be brand here.

First dropped anime/manga. Although I read quite a few volume before dropping it. More than a decade and half ago.

>>144909255
Love Hina had the most popularity so they use it as the "scapegoat"

>>144910627
Pretty sure Ranma 1/2 and Tenchi Muyo had comparable popularity though.

>>144900240

Daily reminder that Naru was never confirmed as the Promise Girl. Not even in the fucking manga.

No, his grandma said the Promise Girl was standing beside him, and he looks around and everyone was standing beside him so she basically said nothing.

The promise doesn't matter. Love matters.

>>144909270
>One thing I dislike in retrospect is that the girls just start falling fot Keitaro for no particular reason.

He's the only male figure that half the cast interacts with/closely on a regular basis. That covers Shinobu (shyness), Motoko (actively pushes guys away) and Su (just being Su).

Mutsumi and Naru are actually romantically interested in him.

Kitsune just dicks around.

>>144900240
I would love to see them tap dancing.

>>144910974
Ranma 1/2 and Tenchi Muyo didn't have as controversial a winner(s)

The Promise Girl never existed, she was merely a figment of Keitaro's imagination.

>>144910974

Both were popular for their time. But Anime grew exponentially in viewers between 1990 and 2006. In 15 years, anime as a whole basically grew 5x bigger (10-20x bigger if you count viewers outside Japan). And Love Hina came out right in the middle of that bubble.

So Love Hina, for better or worse, had a much bigger viewer base and influence than the shows that came before it except for maybe CardCaptor Sakura and Eva.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJU-srGCCrU&list=FLUD4z9UIEbG17aqnmmsjxxA&index=20

akamatsu did everything better in negima, especially the characters.

asuna was a better naru
honoka was a better shinobu
ku fei was a better kaolla
and so on

if only he didnt get shitty with uq holder he wouldve already been one of the greatest long-running waifubait series creators of all time

>>144911257
>So Love Hina, for better or worse, had a much bigger viewer base and influence than the shows that came before it except for maybe CardCaptor Sakura and Eva.
>and influence
That's not how influence works. Just because more people are watching anime in 2000 doesn't mean shows from that time automatically have more of an influence on the market.

>>144911413

But the evidence of Love Hina's influence can be seen over the 15 year period that followed it.

And as an aside, Despite being so huge, Eva didn't have much influence on the rest of anime. The few shows that tried to copy it failed miserably. And most other directors didn't try to imitate it. Eva is basically the West Wing of anime.

>>144911511

why is the west wing so good

we don't deserve the west wing

>>144911511
Not that guy but I'm pretty sure that's not what influence means, it still had a large impact on the medium and inspired or otherwise affected many other directors and writers, then and since. It doesn't have to lead directly to Eva clones for it to have influence.

>>144911511
>Eva didn't have much influence on the rest of the anime
What the fuck am I reading? NGE is the most influential anime of all time, nigga.

>>144911651
>NGE is the most influential anime of all time, nigga.
For now. History will show that that spot will soon be taken over by Madoka.

It's a great manga. Akamatsu did a great job with the pacing of the story -- it actually felt like time was passing by as you read and there wasn't a wasted chapter.

I liked Motoko the best and Naru was a good girl.

>>144911702
I haven't seen many shows trying to rip Madoka off, maybe Yuki Yuna but I think that stands on its own.

>>144911129
Never-mind how Naru was the third most popular, with minimal difference to second place or how Akane isn't different from Naru, but just how does that have to do with harem cliches and tropes that existed and were popularized by older harem series than Love HIna?

>>144911257
Late 90's to early 2000's was the bubble. LH was in the middle of it, but to carried that much influence? That's nonsense. It was popular, but not that popular. Even a show like Nadesico was more popular and carried more influence during its peak than Love Hina. The west is irrelevant, but even so when I was growing and getting my anime VHS from outlets like Suncoast, Tenchi Muyo was way more marketed and popular. Toonami had huge impact with the anime it exposed to the west, and TM was one of the anime it promoted.

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>>144911538

Movie production level budget and solid writing for a TV series. And the show actually ended before it jumped the shark.

>>144911591
>>144911651

>it still had a large impact on the medium and inspired or otherwise affected many other directors and writers
How? Anno's dialogue and directing style doesn't appear in other anime. Aside from a few that tried to copy it and, as I said, failed miserably. Even other GAINAX shows that followed were unable to recreate it. Hell, even Anno himself has failed to do it with his own Eva remakes.

In the end. the only thing people really took from Eva and made work for other shows was merchandising. I mean fuck, everyone and their mom is copying Miyazaki or Oshii. But can you direct me to an example of a film or TV series that copied Anno's style and wasn't just a Transformers level hack job? I'm serious. I'd like to find an example.

>>144908372
>>144909255
You need to learn the difference between inventing and popularizing.

>>144911931

It jumped the shark a little when Sorkin left. Basically around when CJ became Chief of Staff and they decided to pivot to "more character-based stories".

Then it saved itself by going deep into the new Presidential Campaign.

>>144911852

Here we are in 2016 and there's still shows using the Love Hina formula. How many shows have used the Nadesico formula however? Maybe Vandread. Stellvia of the Universe maybe...but only its use of kids in space and completely destroying itself at the end.

If anything, you guys seem to be missing what influence is.

>>144911311
What? I only read volume 1 of UQ Holder back when it came out. I saw some characters from Negima showed up recently. I was pretty hyped. Would you say it's not being good?

>>144912015

I guess you could say season 5 wasn't as strong as the previous seasons. Certainly not the magic that was watching Toby and Josh running around in Iowa or Toby nearly destroying the entire administration by trying to save social secuirty. But still, even at its worst, The West Wing was better than pretty much any show on western TV, then or since. Shit like Scandal tries to be the West Wing, but is closer to a bad soap opera than anything else.

>>144903781
this is true but you forgot

>kanako >>> everyone else

My first real manga. Lots of fond memories, read it too many times to get enjoyment out of it. I thought it desensitized me to titties since I was tired of seeing them by the second volume despite being only 12, but then I read Saikano and discovered that Akamatsu's titties are just terrible (and lack nipples).

>>144912110
>Toby nearly destroying the entire administration by trying to save social secuirty
When did that happen again?

>>144911511
You're acting like Love Hina was the first harem ever that started all the harem cliches. Think for a second and see how dumb you sound after you examine the fact Love Hina is just another harem that took cliches that came before it.

You're straight up attributing one popular harem that was among several that kept the harem bubble afloat. On the other hand, Evangelion created ripples across numerous genre and mediums and is common viewed as the anime that kept anime alive by breaking through the enveloped, essentially sustaining the industry. From its characters, to moe, to the visual directing, to sheer merchandise, it outclass and is the most memorable for third generation otaku (Hiroki Azuma) In Japan.

>>144912182

http://westwing.wikia.com/wiki/Slow_News_Day

Well what do you know. Its season 5. So even the 'worst' season still had one of the best episodes.

>>144912198
Its not the first but it has the most influence on modern romcom writing.

You don't have to be the core of writing in order to be a pariah.

>>144912198

>You're acting like Love Hina was the first harem ever that started all the harem cliches.
Funny because my post up here >>144908372 says otherwise.

Love Hina took influence from previous shows. No one is disputing that. But because of its huge rise in popularity, it became the model that most harems following it used. Think about it. Something like Shuffle isn't copying Ranma or KOR. Its copying Love Hina.

>>144912026
>Love Hina formula
That isn't a thing. Harem formula never changes, it's always been the same then, before, and after Love Hina. You're making a mistake associating generic formula used since forever and still today to influence.

>>144912363
>>144912384
Don't bother, he's not going to understand. Lots of people think the only one that matters is the first, and not the one that made it popular.

>>144912099
It was disappointing, it started off okay but is just plain mediocre, the latest arcs feel more like desperate pandering to its Negima fans for nostalgia than actually being intriguing. The series got bumped to a monthly release instead, too.

>>144912449

>Harem formula never changes, it's always been the same then, before, and after Love Hina.
Ranma isn't the same as Urusei Yatsura. And neither one is like Love Hina. You're being as stubborn as the idiots above. And if you are the same guy who kept insisting Ah! Megami sama was a harem, then you're just proving your point even more wrong. Since Ah! Megami sama isn't like any of the other shows I just mentioned because it isn't a harem at all

>>144912363
Explain it then.

>>144912384
And being popular to be the poster series doesn't make it the series that created or was the first to popularized them. That's the point. It's only the poster series popular in western minds. There are idiots acting like it started it all because it's was popular at a critical period in the anime industry, but it's an misconception to say the formula originated from Love Hina.

>>144910975
That's the thing that bugged me the most in LH. Keitaro's borderline psychopathic obsession with a person he never knew beyond some
vague broken memories. He act's like if he finds her all the worlds ills will fade and nothing bad will ever happen again.

The cliche violent tsundere characters pale in comparison to that crap.

>>144912452
It's not the one that made it popular, and I don't think >>144912384 is claiming that, either. It's the one that made certain combinations of cliches/structures popular. The harem already existed, and most of those cliches did too, and featured in various popular shows - they were absolutely a trend already. LH is just the popularizer of the specific harem structure that was most popular in the 00s (and is still popular but has been rivaled or edged out a bit by the battle academy one now).

>>144912026
Stellvia's the same director as Nadesico, so that doesn't really count.

>>144912678
No shit? Ranma, Urusei Yatsura, Tenchi Muyo, Love Hina, and Ah My Goddess are all different. But they have the same cliches and tropes used today.

I'm not, but the anon who said AMG is harem isn't wrong. It's always been called and understood as harem. Calling it not a harem is utterly mind boggling.

Started the manga in middle school, still havent finished it. It was great though.

>>144911931
>Anno's dialogue and directing style doesn't appear in other anime.
It does in anime like Rahxephon and Fafner, It get parodied and reference to no end. Besides, you don't need to copy Anno's style to support the notion that Eva has great influence. You can google up on Eva's influence very easily and see why it is the most inferential anime to date.

>>144912701

>And being popular to be the poster series doesn't make it the series that created or was the first to popularized them.
And we're not talking about who created the cliches! If you want to pull that card, you can say no anime is influential since its using troupes from fucking Shakespeare or before. The point is that Love Hina became more popular and therefore, was copied.

Jesus Christ on a cracker...

>>144906961
Not all of the girls at the inn had an affection for Keitaro and it's also true in terms of romance, the story focused more on the relationship between Naru and Keitaro.

But it was still a harem, it just had less emphasis on the harem aspect compared to other harem stories typically seen.

>>144912026
Define this formula you keep alluding to. inb4 main heroine is tsundere and she wins = Love Hina formula. If you think that's it then you need to slap yourself.

I'll be honest I owe my entire anime-watching interest to LH, because of this one terrible flash "dating sim" game (they made a Galaxy Angel one too) I played based around it on newgrounds forever ago, after that I read and watched it, then got intrigued enough to start branching out to other series.

>>144912917

>You can google up on Eva's influence very easily and see why it is the most inferential anime to date.
Because I get a ton of Rei images, that means Eva is influential? Because a bunch of anime nerds put up reviews calling Eva the best anime ever, its the most influential? I can't even tell if you're being serious or not. By your own logic, I could claim FMA or Cowboy Bebop is the 'most influential anime' because it gets a large amount of google hits.

>>144912962
>was copied.
If you're going to play that then list anime that copied Ken's style exactly.

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>>144913023

Two girls compete over a guy. With a host of other girls who also like the guy but are essentially there just to cater to other fans and have no chance to be with him. This can be seen in everything from Haganai to Green Green.

But the 'formula' I just described can't be attributed to Ranma, since all the girls like Ranma and its obvious that only one is really in the running. And it can't be attributed to Urusei Yatsura because its a reversal, Ataru likes all the girls but most of the girls hate him. With once again, only one girl really in the running. And it can't be attributed to Tenchi or Saber Marionette since each girl wins.

All of the above mentioned shows have clones. But Love Hina got far more clones.

>>144913053
Are you playing dumb? Look harder don't be a moron about it. There are dozens and dozens of articles, references, dissertation-like essays, controversial topics, etc from official sources. Even famous people in the anime industry have commented and expressed, positively and negatively, NGE's influence.

>>144912962
>!
>Jesus Christ on a cracker...
Not him, but please lurk more.

>>144912917
> It does in anime like Rahxephon and Fafner, It get parodied and reference to no end
I'm not going to talk about his dialogue style because I don't speak nip and thus have zero fucking clue what anyone's dialogue style is in anime, but I don't think they really aped Anno's directing style much in RahXephon. There are a couple sequences (the car one early on, for example) that I would attribute to Enokido doing storyboards for both, but generally I think it had a pretty distinct visual appeal.

>>144913318

>Citizen Kane is the best movie ever made
>the internet said so
You are the exact type of sheep I cannot stand. And you should be turned into a Gyro.

>>144913274
Love Hina had at least 4 girls who were serious in competing over the MC. You should try again. If it's two then Tenchi Muyo fits your formula more since only Ryoko and Ayeka competed seriously. Ranma isn't even that difference since at least 3 girls wanted Ranma's dick and fought over him, but Ranma has a twist with the male rival/best friend liking the main girl. In fact, with Ranma the Takahashi couple is a trope itself and permeates countless harem that have a tsundere male lead and a tsundere female lead.

>>144913440
Pretentious religiously themes, cryptic dialogues, enigmatic plot, and DEEP visual directing and shots is pretty much Eva. It doesn't have to rip it off completely, but those are hard to say they don't have in common.

>>144913564
Great argument, you sure showed me. You're just too afraid to admit that NGE is that influential.

>>144913630

>Love Hina had at least 4 girls who were serious in competing over the MC.
Shinobu and Koalla are both kids and Keitaro never showed a single bit of interest in them. Matoko was completely obvious in her affection, but Keitaro again never showed a single bit of interest in her. Mitsune never cared about Keitaro at all and helped Naru. And I don't think I even need to mention Keitaro's aunt.

The only ones in 'competition' are Naru and Mutsumi. And its painfully obvious from the start that its really only Naru.

And I'm done talking to this idiot.

>>144913795

You claimed 'the internet' proved your point. I can say that the Internet proves that the Moon Landing never happened. But that doesn't make it true. I'd have to show evidence and not just reference 'the internet'.

The burden of proof really is on you buddy. Go ahead and prove it. Hell, even citing Wiki is better than the whole damn internet.

>>144913824
>Naru
>Mokoto
>Mutsumi
>Kanako
That's 4, idiot. They all competed and were serious about it. Don't move the goalpost by inserting MC's feeling as the deciding factor. It was always obvious from the start Naru was going to win and is the only girl MC liked, but that's irrelevant to your argument for "Love Hina formula."

>>144913892
>claimed 'the internet'
>You can google up on Eva's influence very easily and see why it is the most
> There are dozens and dozens of articles, references, dissertation-like essays, controversial topics, etc from official sources. Even famous people in the anime industry have commented and expressed, positively and negatively, NGE's influence.
Nice strawman. You tried too hard and now you're done.

>>144913795
I'm talking about directing specifically, since that's what you and the other guy were discussing. Storywise it clearly had elements in common, but "DEEP" isn't very strong evidence of directing style influence.

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>>144913955

>Mokoto
>already explained

>Kanako
>appeared after Keitaro and Naru were already dating

You really want to go down swinging, don't you.

>>144913892
All that illogical fallacies.

>>144914034

If its so easy to google Eva and prove your point, why don't you do it and post something?

Oh right. There's no actual evidence you can make. Just sweeping generalizations covering the entire fucking internet.

>>144914070
>>144914034

>posts exactly 1 minute apart
Hmmm....

>>144914041
Not DEEP alone. That was only one of the factors I listed.

>>144914047
And I countered you, dumbass.

>after
And Mutsumi wasn't a serious contender until halfway into the story. Cherrypick less.

>>144908372
Excuse me. You're selling Kimagure Orange Road short with that description.

Ayukawa Madoka isn't "Tsundere". She is a complex character compared to the modern tsundere. She is aloof and has that isolated sense of beauty. Heck her personality trait is even mentioned in the show title. She can be described as "kimagure."

Also, there might have been a lot of filler in the middle, but the crux of the story is that the relationship between the 3 and their how they deal with budding love. The series captures the heart of young love, the indecision, self-deception, immature reactions, and the well meaning lies told in order to avoid hurting people you care about. Yes, the show/manga could've ended earlier, but us the audience would have been robbed of the opportunity to get to know the characters better and get to that touching conclusion.

>>144914124
>>144914171
>1 min apart
Hmmm.

>>144913274
Ranma has a harem, but the show isn't really a harem because the male rivals like Ryouga and Mousse are as prominent as the girls.

>>144914124
>Can't do a simple evangelion Influence legacy search by himself
Not my fault you're a retard.

>>144914171
(You).

>>144907878
You have no idea how the harem genre works. God, you're that shitposter from Rakudai threads that cried every time people called Rakudai a harem. Your posting style is the same. >>144908034 was made to shut you up.

>>144914175

>And Mutsumi wasn't a serious contender until halfway into the story.
Wow. Its almost like I already pointed out the same thing in an above post and you ignored it.

>The only ones in 'competition' are Naru and Mutsumi. And its painfully obvious from the start that its really only Naru.

>>144908034
>>144914508
So what show counts as a harem?

>>144914556
Nope.
>The only ones in 'competition' are Naru and Mutsumi.
That's what you said and you. Using your logic, Mutsumi can't be counted then since she wasn't a real contender until half way into the story. And since you dismissed Shinobu and Koalla, there's only Motoko left, but you claimed she isn't competition. So, there's only Naru and that's just one girl. So your definition of two girls competing and the other girls in the harem being non-factors >>144913274 does NOT follow.

Your argument is so flawed, I didn't even mentioned how none of the girls had a chance except Naru, so there's only one obvious girl from start to finish. The other girls as I mentioned here >>144913955 were seriously competing too, but they never had a chance. And that is like every harem ever, not even something Love Hina invented or even popularized.

>>144914175

And I countered you.

>prove it dumbass!

Prove your argument first. See how your argument means nothing when the opposing side can just repeat it? This is called deflection. And since that's all the argument has become, it'll only end when one of us stops posting. I'll be the bigger man and do so.

>>144914199

I'll admit that Madoka isn't a stock Tsundere. But she still fills the same role as a bitchy Tsundere and shares many of the same personality traits. This is why some people consider her to be one of the inspirations for Tsundere. For the record, I also don't think Lum is a Tsundere, but lots of people in the actual anime industry claim she is.

But I definitely do not agree with your view of the show. It was an episodic show that tried to have continuity. The problem is, each episode the characters reset back to their base archtypes. They never grew until the last couple episodes. And every single episode was based on the same exact formula. One of the girls misunderstands the MC, they get mad at him and give him the cold shoulder, but at the end they eventually forgive him and pretend it didn't happen. The actual main misunderstanding in episode 1, the actual 'plot' of the show, is only addressed in like 5 episodes out of 52. Most of them at the end of the show.

>>144914855
and using your*

>>144914556
>>144914903
Why the hell are you replying twice?

>Prove your argument first
>>144914855

>>144914855

>The only ones in 'competition' are Naru and Mutsumi.
>That's what you said

And then I went on to say:

>And its painfully obvious from the start that its really only Naru.

But thanks for repeating my point.

>>144914903
>I also don't think Lum is a Tsundere, but lots of people in the actual anime industry claim she is.
How is she not? Lum is similar to Mikoto from Index. Do you think you're smarter than Japanese people in the anime industry?

>>144914801

Only the shows they think count, obviously. Or in the case of this guy, whatever show the internet told him is a harem.

>>144915027

Lum isn't Tsun. She is full on Dere after episode 1. She is literally chasing after and hugging Ataru every chance she gets. That's the opposite of Tsun.

Shinobu is the Tsundere. Which makes sense, considering she's the model for Akane.

The anime sucks hard, the manga introduced me in the weaboo world.

>>144900240
>weeaboo anime

How the is an anime weeaboo?
Weeaboo refers to people who wish they were Japanese. How can a japanese animation be a weeaboo product?

That said though the character designs are very fap worthy. Some nostalgic porn came out of it.

>>144915015
Playing dumb now? Fine then.
>Two girls compete over a guy. With a host of other girls who also like the guy but are essentially there just to cater to other fans and have no chance to be with him. This can be seen in everything from Haganai to Green Green.
This is your point, and it doesn't apply to Love Hina because there are 4 girls that competed and the other girls are just there to cater to additional crowds. No matter what, none of the girls that competes have a real chance except the main girl. However you spin it, Love Hina didn't come up with this formula. This formula you keep eluding existed before Love Hina. All Love Hina did was used that generic formula.

Now quit being a moron.

>>144900240
I have complicated feelings for tsundere's like Naru.
On 1 hand I understand that people like to work up themself to getting the normally easily angry lady to be happy and knowing it is pure.
One the other hand it can get annoying when she swings without hesitation and always blame the MC for everything every time.

>>144914903
My point is, prior to the mid-90s. Characters may exhibit Tsundere tendencies but it is only part of their multi-faceted personalities. Ayukawa's personality didn't stay static throughout the series. Also often times Lum and Ayukawa gets mad and angry for legitimate reasons (MCs fucking up etc..)

The "Tsundere" as we know them today are Tsundere for Tsundere's sake. That is their main and only personality trait. They essentially remain the same person for the whole series. Mainly because that database trait can easily be commodified and presented to people who like that trait.

>>144915100
I'm pretty certain Lum didn't go full deredere in the very first episode. Are remembering right? Of the things to remember most, it's Lum getting violent and attacking the person she loves when she gets jealous or her temper is set off. She wasn't honest about her feelings at the start, but she did liked the Ataru early on.

Love Hina was the first manga I read after Dragon Ball.

Fucking hell, just seeing shit from it makes me nostalgic as hell. Haven't read it in almost 12 years, so I really don't know good it actually was, but it'll always have a special place in my heart.

>>144915221
>eluding
alluding*

>>144915221

Mokoto likes Keitaro, but never competes with any of the other girls or follows through with her feelings. Kanako comes along after the big reveal and both Keitaro and Naru have already admitted everything (the harem equivalent of being married). And once again, Keitaro never shows any interest in Kanako besides embarrassed screaming of seeing her naked. In fact, he tries his best to get away from her. Kanako is literally just a way to have three more episodes ofd Keitaro getting punched and sell some OAVs.

Mutsumi is really the only girl who has any competition with Naru. And as I said before, its obvious that she's not going to get anywhere with him. Them having a half shower together and Mutsumi admitting she likes him is pretty much the most competition Naru ever has. And as you saw, Keitaro runs away from Mutsumi to be with Naru. So its obvious Mutsumi isn't even in the running.

But go ahead and find another way to draw this out...

>>144915360

>Ayukawa's personality didn't stay static throughout the series. Also often times Lum and Ayukawa gets mad and angry for legitimate reasons (MCs fucking up etc..)
The problem with Ayukawa is that was her response for everything. Pretty much every episode is her getting mad at the MC for something (always a misunderstanding) but then getting over it by the end of the episode. So sure, she does act the way you say. But its done so often that it loses all its meaning. And the fact that its always tied to a misunderstanding that only the audience and MC knows about just makes it even more annoying. You want to root for the MC to finally get one up on Ayukawa and validate himself, not rooting for him to win her affection.

>>144915424

Literally the end of episode 1, after touching her horns, Lum jumps over him and proclaims they are engaged. And that's pretty much how she acts for the rest of the series. She does get angry and shock people (Ataru most of all). But anger isn't tied to being Tsun. And despite being angry and sometimes even crying over Ataru's womanizing, she always forgives him and goes right back to being dere.

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>>144915670

>validate
I meant vindicate.

>>144915488
>never competes
Mokoto gets jealous and tried to win him over in her arc. Being in the race is competing. it doesn't have to be a duel or whatever.

That's not the point. Kanako likes her onii-chan and secretly wants him. That much is obvious. She tested the others to see if they were fit to be with her onii-chan. Naru especially for obvious reasons.

>Keitaro never shows any interest
Irrelevant.

>Mutsumi is really the only girl who has any competition with Naru
Except she isn't and I already explained why she isn't the only one. You dismissed Kanako caueshe she apepared late in the story, but it's not too different for Mutsumi so using your logic she can't be considered to. You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

I like how despite all this you never addressed the issue about the claim you made for "Love Hina formula" that I addressed and debunked. You lost but don't have the balls to admit you were wrong, so now you have to drag this out.

>>144915670
I'll have to go back and check for myself, but tell me this, do you consider Mikoto of Index a tsundere in the current timeline? One could say she isn't in denial, but she still reacts violently in a way similar to Lum.

>>144915804

>Keitaro never shows any interest
>Irrelevant.

Then we have no more to discuss. Every show that ever has multiple females interested in a male, even one sided or fleeting, is a harem to you. Naruto is a harem. Pokemon is a harem. Eva is a harem. Which is wrong, but I'm not gonna bother to keep arguing with you.

>>144915670
>>144915716
That is a legitimate gripe. The episodic nature of the show makes gives out that sense of fatigue. Sure as a viewer it may seem that but if you look at it in the perspective of 14 year olds just trying to have fun but also learning about nuances in relationships as time goes by, it makes sense how the could just live their middle school life whimsically until it reaches a boiling point in the end when their feelings couldn't be put in the wayside in favor of the status quo anymore.

I think Kyosuke more than anyone else did not want to break the status quo, maybe he was indecisive in setting the record first but the amount of time the 3 spent together made it harder and harder for him to just push Hikaru aside in favor of Madoka.

>>144915940
More strawman. Wonderful. Go back to >>144908034.

It's fine, I wouldn't want to admit it either after the effort and time you put to make your delusions a reality.

>>144915933

I haven't seen Index, sorry. I'm an old fag for the most part. But I'll make some comparisons for somewhat new shows I have seen. Yozora in Haganai is a Tsundere, despite not attacking the MC with abuse (she does it to Sena). Aruuruu from Utawarerumono displays clear jealousy and lust for the MC, while hiding and denying it behind anger and deflection. That seems like a Tsundere to me.

Lum is just open and free about her attraction to Ataru so she doesn't seem like a Tsundere to me. A Tsundere can clearly have different forms than just punching the MC.

>>144906861
>Downloading Love Hina subs in 320x240 AVIs
>feels good man
>better than the postage stamp realmedia subs of other shows
>subber starts releasing episodes in 512x384
>other animes start coming out in 640x480
>original Pentium PC can't handle it without stuttering anymore
>feels bad man

>>144915221

What Love Hina DID was have nothing else. It was nothing BUT that harem show with a mild love interest love plot.

It opened the door for PURE harem shows instead of being a show with harem aspects like Tenchi was.

What this did was open the door for a bunch of PURE harems where they were just distilled bullshit and wacky antics instead of adding the love interest shit to the side like Nadeseico or Tenchi or any number of better harem shows from the same era and before.

We are starting to get back to that era now but the problem is that harems being a TOTAL genre makes for shit pandering shows. Similar to how characters now aren't multifaceted and just have their stereotypes because the fans are retards.

>>144915964

Its obvious the MC didn't want to break the status quo or he would have fixed everything in episode 1. He would have said he didn't want to be with Hikaru right away, then asked Ayukawa out. Of course they try to reason this by saying the MC is happy to have a girlfriend at all and finds Hikaru to be cute. But as the show goes on, this premise becomes more and more unbelievable. Since he's doing everything he can to get with Ayukawa (and hurting Hikaru over and over in the process).

His actions go against his inability to actually speak his feelings. Which becomes more and more unrealistic as the show seems to bend over backwards to come up with a new way for him to fuck everything up. After a certain point, it would be so much easier for him to just admit everything than the mental and physical hoops he has to jump through to keep it all quiet.

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>>144916079
>I haven't seen Index

>>144900240
The manga was my first introduction to manga in general, and especially harems. I grew up wanting a harem myself.
And I got one, but it was only an internet harem.

>>144916175
I remember downloading anime from YouTube back in early 2006 playing it in glorious 240p flv format. That's how I watched EoE the first time.

>>144916256

I know, I know. But if it makes any difference, there's thousands of other anime I haven't seen. Like your favorite one.

>>144916249
Not him, but there were plenty of cheap pandering shows and cashgrabs with non-multifaceted characters long before harems became a thing.

>>144916079
>Utawarererumono
>somewhat new
Jesus Christ, man, it's a decade old. Did you stop following new series in the 90s or something?

>I'm an old fag for the most part.
Oldfag doesn't mean what you think it does. Neither does tsundere. Lurk more, because you're clearly a newfag to /a/.

>>144916249
Yous serious? Harem could be broken down to three categories: drama, battle harem, and comedy. Battle harem are the worst, with drama as second best, and comedy harem as the best. Love Hina is a comedy harem. And harem comedies such as Asu no Yoichi, Nyan Koi, Hayate no Gotoku, Kannagi, Rokujouma, KonoSuba and so on follow suit as comedy.

>>144916685

>Tsundere doesn't mean what you think it means
By all means, explain it. In great detail without saying 'just look it up'. See that's the thing about examples. I provided multiple examples. You provided none.

>>144916685

And Love Hina is older. Do you even know what thread you're in?

I think people are misunderstanding when others say Love Hina is sets the template for future harem series.

If you look at major shifts in anime art styles, you will see late 90s art style is completely different from early 00s. During that time, liens got a lot simpler, and character faces are sharpened.

While Tenchi etc. were popular, they were drawn with the old style. Love Hina was among the first harem series to employ the new 00s art style.

Other manga series quickly followed. But it wasn't manga that switched over. Visual novels blossomed around that time, and quickly formalized how a harem story would work. These games took a lot of cue from Love Hina. So kids played these VN and grew up being familiar with this sort of harem stories. They then become mangaka/writers and write more harem stories.

/someone who has been reading manga/VN/anime for 16 years already.

>>144916685

A show from 10 years ago is relatively recent compared to a show from 30 years ago. Its like you can't even read. Or don't know what somewhat means.

>>144917063

According to the series director, Love Hina was the first anime series to be 100% degitial (that is, no physical cels). So in a way, it did set the standard for the new style of anime. Not just its story formula but also the animation.

>>144917063

While Love Hina popularized a lot of harem cliches, plot wise it is actually unique to this day.

Let's start with the cliches. LH characters are all very memorable. Tsundere, genki, swordman, etc. While these character stereotypes are common these days, they were relatively new back then. By this I mean that yes, these traits existed before LH (Ranma ex.), but no series (afaik) used these traits as the characters' central defining traits.

Plot element wise, childhood promise is like the oldest plot related cliche in anime romance. Hell even Major had it, and it's not even a harem story. Again, nothing special.

>>144900240
The only girls I liked were smokey, sleepy, and slut.

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>>144917257

>Tsundere
>Genki
>new at the time

>swordsman is a personality type
>it had been done in Urusei Yatsura and even before

Uh....

>>144917257
IMHO what's unique about LH is mentioned in this post ->>144911772

>Akamatsu did a great job with the pacing of the story -- it actually felt like time was passing by as you read and there wasn't a wasted chapter.

Even today you won't find a harem story that starts and ended as well as LH. Just look at that pile of shit that's Nisekoi. The MC pretty much didn't change from start to end.

Now look at Keitaro. He always had goals in the story. When he achieves a goal, the plot enters the next arc. This is very rare in modern day harem stories. Can you imagine reading a Sunday series and followed the main character for 3 years from high school to becoming successful in life?

The sense of progression is what make this series memorable. The reader witnessed the growing up of all characters (yes, even Naru). When the series started, they were all kids. By the end, they were all grown up and had their own lives. The plot did an amazing job of showing how this growth happened.

Look at Ichigo 100%. The mangaka tried to pull a similar trick. But because the MC was a piece of shit, it didn't quite resonate with the reader.

>>144916812
I'm not the guy you've been talking to, so obviously I haven't provided examples or definitions yet. I'd say the tsun aspect simply requires a form of negative/aggressive behavior toward the object of affection (either current or future object, depending on the case), though not necessarily all that heated or serious, and I would not call denying their attraction a necessary feature, either - I'd consider various Adachi girls like Aoba or Kashima Miyuki tsundere, for example.

>>144917075
>>144916846
> Its like you can't even read.
But I can, and since I can read, I realized that his phrasing implied fairly heavily that he didn't watch much "somewhat new" anime, and a decade+ is a fucking long period of time to not have been behind on the times. That's all I was commenting on.

>>144917399
>ura

As I said, as a central character trait.


Tell me more about Motoko's character beyond that she is a sword wielding girl. There's not much to her character beyond that. Yes she is actually vulnerable inside, but you don't see that until 2/3 past the story (and I am speaking as someone who like Motoko best.)

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>>144900240
Love hina has a place on my heart so much nostalgia feeling my first harem and the only one i still remember and love

Before Love Hina, harems were:
Love comedy+scifi/fantasy - Tenchi, UY, Saber Marionette J
Love comedy+fighting - Ranma, Saber Marionette J
Central couple with wacky neighbors - Ah My Goddess, Maison Ikkoku

After Love Hina, the harem love comedy was essentially codified into:
Tsundere female lead
Useless milquetoast male lead
Cast of characters made to fill out a checklist of traits - the loli(s), the cook/maid, the drunkard/slut, the cold one(borrowing Rei from EVA), the violent one, the tomboy, the old one, etc
Few supernatural elements and those that are included are played for laughs and not explained too deeply
No central villain to threaten the male lead

That last one is important because without a bad guy to fight against, the male lead does not need to power himself up to be more strong and competent. He can remain a bumbling but well-meaning non-threatening nice guy with the rare flash of assertiveness.

>>144900240
anime is shit. Read Manga.

>>144917063
Old VNs are often cited to be the source of archetypes like tsundere, kuudre, yamato nadeshiko, etc and also where harem started. Ken is a gamer so he probably liked them and made a manga based on what he liked.

The generation that liked Ken's work went on to make what they liked in his work. And thus the cycle repeats itself.

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>>144917593

Her personality is someone who is highly emotional, despite focusing most of her time on a discipline that is suppose to teach her to be calm and collected. I'll agree her role in the show is pretty much just to be another random girl to add to the harem count. But there's a little more to her. She fits into the same category as characters like the Chief in Working, which also uses a sword. They all have different personalities, but their similarity is they are highly emotional. A contradiction to the idea of the 'calm, disciplined kendo student'. Kuno in Ranma and Mendou in UY take this one step further by literally being a Kendo champions who try to act cool and confident, but are ruled entirely by their emotions and prone to crazy outbursts.

>>144917498
>Miyuki
Now there's a fucking series that was ahead of the cliche curve. You could update the designs and some of the more culturally-80s stuff (the motorcycling truant character has kind of died, for example), and newfags would start calling it a fucking OreImo clone or something.

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>>144917498

>I'd say the tsun aspect simply requires a form of negative/aggressive behavior toward the object of affection
So basically what I said?

>and I would not call denying their attraction a necessary feature, either
Eh, I guess. But if we don't include that, then a whole host of other characters start to come into play. I mean, Lina Inverse can now be a Tsundere.

>I'd consider various Adachi girls like Aoba or Kashima Miyuki tsundere, for example.
But aren't they even from the traditional sense? Aoba uses her anger to deflect from her growing feelings for Kou as well as just being generally bitchy. And for the record, Kou is also a Tsundere. Just not using anger as his deflection mechanism. Instead using indifference and sarcasm. Okay, maybe a little anger in one scene...

>>144917863
>the male lead does not need to power himself up to be more strong and competent. He can remain a bumbling but well-meaning non-threatening nice guy with the rare flash of assertiveness.

Too bad the modern days series only copy the 'nice guy' part, and don't understand the 'progression' part.

If you look at I's, all 3 main characters grew up throughout the series. Same for Orange Road. These two series are famous love triangle manga. LH uses a similar technique, but Akamatsu mastered the technique so well that he finished growing the MC in 7 volumes. There is nothing to write for the MC anymore! So the series switched focus to Naru and tried to have her character grow up as well. When it is apparent a violent tsundere is not enough to hold the show together, Akamatsu dragged in Motoko and Shinobi. When these 2 are done, Akamatsu finally calls it a day and end the series.

Going back to the punching bag that's Nisekoi. Where's the progression?

>>144918292
Aoba sort of is from your definition, but Miyuki definitely isn't - she's fucking going out with MC for most of the series, so she's clearly not in any sort of denial about it, she just has a lot of tsun moments/slaps because of "kyaa ecchi!"-type gags.

>>144917933
What you described are well-rounded characters that happens to wield swords. But Motoko's character is literally a violent and stern swordman for 2/3 of the series. During that time, she was just a character device to broaden the appeal to reader.

What I am arguing is that LH set the example of using side characters with singularly defined traits. Even Ranma and Tenchi didn't be so bold in its pending. All their side characters were developed from the start of their respective series.

It's great Motoko becomes multidimensional later, but I believe it was the result of Akamatsu ran out of things to draw.

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>>144918160
>>144917863

Its pretty sad that /a/ loves to mock Saber Marionette J for its character design. When it actually did what everyone wants in a show. A Harem with cute girls where every single girl wins. Along with a strong scifi sub plot. And all the characters get development. And a great comedic side kick. And actual progression to a solid ending.

Holy crap, its like the series had everything. If a new harem came out today with even half of these elements, /a/ would be calling it the second coming of Christ. That is, as long as the girls looked like the cast of K-On. I guess that's the problem. At the end of the day /a/ and most harem fans only care about how the characters look.

>>144918528
pending -> to be such lazy pandering

>>144918528

Well I'll agree that Motoko was one dimensional. And I suspect it was because he didn't want her to upstage Naru. In fact, didn't he actually say at one time that Motoko was his favorite girl?

>>144918444
Agreed that Kashima Miyuki is not a tsundere, though she was awfully prone to fall victim to misunderstandings about Masato in the anime. If the anime had any sort of romantic conclusion, then I would've understood if she had lost.

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>There are people right now who thinks Ranma and Akane didn't immortalized the jerkass/tsundere male lead x violent/tsundere female lead that trope

>>144918605
Yeah he said that. Although if you ask me, I think what he meant was that he likes the character trait of a stern sword girl.

As for her being vuln inside etc., frankly that's a contrast moe quality that would have been popular with any kind of female character it couples with. All Akamatsu's characters in LH have this.


>upstage Naru

Naru served as the Holy Grail for 2/3 of the stories. She is the trophy that Keitarou was going for (by going Toudai.) Having Motoko in the mix would just make the already strained/tight story even strainer. There is already a character that provides uncertainty and 'consolation price'- Mutsumi. The story doesn't need Motoko to create additional friction.

As trophy goes, Naru didn't need to be developed. It wasn't until Keitarou became successful that Naru becomes the MC. Now it is Keitarou that is the trophy, and Naru must grow herself to catch up with him.

Once both characters finished growing, then Akamatsu needs Motoko to create 'conflicts.' To do so, Motoko needed to grew beyond the flat character she was born in.

>>144903781

This man is correct

>weeaboo anime
Do you even know what 'weeaboo' means?
Anyway I like it a lot, it was one of my first manga alongside Card Captors Sakura and Rurouni Kenshin, good memories

>>144918551
> A Harem with cute girls
>cute girls
This is where mocking it for its character designs comes in.

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>>144900613
Not only did the best gjrl win the bowl, but a childhood friend won. A freaking childhood friend. Even nowadays it's super rare for them to win.

>>144919410

And hence the rest of my post where I come to the realization that the look of the characters is all that matters to those people. And why some people can think K-On and Hyouka are masterpieces simply because they think the girls are cute. Obviously character and plot development don't matter.

>Naru
>physically abusive and prone to misunderstanding
>the only way she'd accept MC is if he turned himself into a carbon copy of an older guy she has/had a thing for in the past.
>this older guy is still around, by the way

I hated Naru and how Keitaro got bullied throughout most of the series. The somewhat neat conclusion doesn't excuse the fact that Keitaro should've aborted the whole Naru experiment and shacked up with Mutsumi or Motoko instead.

>>144919753
To be honest, she wasn't the only one who abused him

>>144919802

Well, to pile onto that guys point, there was one girl who clearly showed interest in him and never abused him, mentally or physically. But Keitaro either has a fetish for abuse or the writer just forced him to go with Naru for the big plot twist at the end.

Obvious it was the second one. And obviously this is just a comedy harem where Keitaro is thrown thousands of feet into the sky by punches and is living in a bathhouse with women. But even with all that suspension of disbelief, its hard for some people to accept he would choose Naru over Mutsumi. Not aided by the fact that Mutsumi is clearly better for him even overlooking the abuse. She's better for him on an emotional level. And of course, she was also part of the promise.

>>144919565
>Even nowadays it's super rare for them to win.

Why does Japan hate childhood friends so much?

>>144919753
>>144919753
>the only way she'd accept MC is if he turned himself into a carbon copy of an older guy she has/had a thing for in the past.

I always found this extremely hilarious. Naru just got a younger version of her old crush who doesn't smoke. And he doesn't mind.

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>>144919974

They are the most obvious choice to win and a surrogate for arranged marriage. So authors throw them in there as the easiest 'bait and switch' option.

"Haha, you thought the childhood friend would win? We'll its actually the super violent Tsundere. Bet you didn't see that coming!"

Well actually, since a hundred other Harems have done it before you...yes. Yes I did see it coming. It would have been more shocking if you actually did let the childhood friend win. You want the most shocking tweist on a harem ever? Have an ara ara girl who is also the childhood friend and is also chubby and nice win over a Tsundere perfect girl. Holy shit, half of Japan would kill themselves if you did that!

>>144919978
Why would he? He's better off.

>>144900240
>Love Hina
My first harem.
>Naru
My first waifu.

Manga and not anime, fyi.

>>144919565
She wasn't actually the childhood friend you know.

It was one of the first entry level anime i watched when i got internet, it thaugh me kame means turte and covered the ecchi and comedy aspects i wanted.
I actually liked Shinobu the best but i knew she had no chance so im not mad. It was an ok series.

>>144920602
Say what? She's the promised girl. That makes her a childhood friend.

>>144921041

Both Mutsumi and Naru made a promise with him.