Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1593

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ファッゴトたちは、上下の読み方（「じょうげ」と「うえした」）の違いをおしえて下さい。　また、この両方の言葉の使い方は、ルールがあるの？
よろしく。

>>143662190
When does it air?

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>>143663333
12.5 hours

djt off to a good start.

This thread is way less active than the usual for some reason.

>>143665457
だよね..

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>>143665457

theoretically if one learned the ~2000 jyuyou kanji and mastered most of the grammar in the available textbooks as well as their vocab plus 6k, would jlpt1 be passable or is it even beyond that?

>>143665635
N1 actually isn't passable if you haven't lived in Japan for at least 10 years. And that's not counting studying for about 2 years at home.

>>143665635
You have to learn words and actually read and listen

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Fuccobi here,

A few threads ago I came in here for the first time to start on my nipponese learning adventure. I've now memorized all the Kana/Hiragana and am going to move towards grammar and anki kanji. I've run into some problems though, mostly on approach.

After listening to the jpopdcast thing that was in the guide resources, they suggest learning radicals first since they're building blocks of kanji and will likely make learning future kanji much easier than individually. But anons suggested learning grammar first. Some other annons said fuck grammar, go kanji. And other anons still, suggested both. But nobody suggested radicals.

Wat do from here? Just finished grinding kana/gana, what do you guys think is the best next step?

>>143665747
I've met several people who passed it within 5-6 years of study

>>143665635
Theoretically, that's exactly what JLPT is supposed to test: you knowing jouyou kanji and all the grammar textbooks can teach you.
But in addition to that you need to have enough experience with reading, you won't be able to go through reading section without a decent reading speed and comprehension, and you wont have that if you just cram kanji and grammar.

>>143666243
Unless you plan to write, "learning" radicals consists of reading their wikipedia page and looking at them shits in a table for a couple of hours as you don't have to actually memorize any information about them and just be able to recognize shapes.
After that start grinding 2k, reading tyler kimchi and trying to decipher Yotsuba like everyone here did.

>>143666243
The first thing you need to do is develop the ability to make your own decisions and not listen to whatever faggot is new and bored enough to reply to you on /a/.

>>143666243
Don't go out of your way to learn radicals first.

You'll learn them naturally over the course of time and probably eventually remember kanji as a combination of radicals - which is a useful skill - and it'd be useful in two people talking about how a kanji should be written but learning just radicals first when you know no kanji will just fuck you over.

It's like learning cursive handwriting immediately after learning the ABCs. It's technically a skill that might be useful but what the fuck are you doing learning that first when you don't even know the language?

>>143666714
>>>/gif/

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>>143666756
>It's like learning cursive handwriting

Now you started some shit.

>>143666662
I think there's a fundamental difference between making your own decision and seeking out advice from someone who knows more than you do and has already done what you want to do. Clearly you're not one of those people if you don't have the ability to differentiate between the two yourself.

>>143666602
So I guess my next step is basically just grinding 2k while touching on grammar, huh?

>>143666243
>But anons suggested learning grammar first.
There's no reason you can't do both at the same time.

>>143666756
This is stupid advice. Learning radicals in isolation takes very little time and makes the process of learning kanji (recognition or writing) much easier.

It also helps immensely to have a name to associate each radical with as opposed to knowing them all as "oh, that one".

>>143666970
No shit.
>And other anons still, suggested both. But nobody suggested radicals.

>>143667085
Perhaps that's because learning radicals is part of learning kanji...

>>143667068
This is kinda what I was thinking. There's not a terrible amt of radicals and each of them seems to be a sort of building block of a kanji, so for example if you were struggling to remember what a certain kanji was, you'd notice it had the tree radical and then suddenly "to rest" would trigger in your memory, but what do I know.

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im almost there anons, ive almost completely memorized hiragana and katakana without messing up. Soon i will move to kanji and learn words, i am excited

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残念賞 ;_;

Source on OP webm is Kounai Shasei 03.
Found it with the webm but don't remember how.
Don't thank me, it's shit.

>>143667318
little did anon suspect that learning words might not do much to teach him the actual japanese language

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How does /djt/ make money?

>>143667769
We are all 引きこもり, anon.

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>>143667769
I don't.

>>143667318
Prepare to relearn katakana due to disuse.
And remember how you feel right now if you want to keep yourself motivated.

Good luck, anon!

>>143667769
籍売った

>>143667769
beating up nerds in the schoolyard

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>>143667639
I j-just want to read some Chinese cartoons, should i start on something else before learning random kanji through aniki?

>>143667769
>sit on my ass in 詰所
>watch アニメ all day
>get ゼニ
Easy fuckin life

>>143668162
Yeah, you need to harvest stem cells off Japanese babies and consume them to rewire your brain with new tissue capable of storing Japanese.
Otherwise it's fucking 無理

>>143667769
i'm autistic

>>143668162
the only real 100% confirmed way to learn japanese is watch subbed anime constantly and let the knowledge seep into your brain

>>143668162
there are more kanji in yotsuba than cells in the human body

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>>143667769
強盗

>>143668623
通報しますた

I'm almost done going through kanjidamage but I've been noticing there's a metric fuckton of super common and useful kanji not taught on there.

Where do I look these up to learn them? I don't want to use heisig or whatever and wanikani sucks.

>>143669015
i think you meant しました

>>143669050
Use Anki and Core 2k like a real man.

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It only took 2 years. Why do I still suck at moon senpais?

>>143669050
Think back at how you "learn" kanji on KD:
You see, say, 時.
KD guy points out it consists of 日 and 寺 as if you can't fucking see that yourself and gives you some asinine mnemonic to tie the two.

What part of that process you can't do by yourself, exactly?

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They say once you master Japanese, instantly you will get rich. Is that true?

何ができるｄｊｔ

>>143669373
何も出来ない

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>>143662101
Not sure if this is an appropriate question for this thread but fuck it, I'll ask anyway.

What music do you guys listen to while studying?

>>143669609
>609I can't stop imagining fu(...).pngI can't stop imagining future trunks fucking that (not) little girl and making her addicted to his cock.png (705 KB, 831x76

I just listen to whatever. I don't use anki anymore these days but back when I did I still listened to whatever I liked. I don't buy into the "lyrics will confuse your brain" bullshit.

I've been listening to Tomoe Takizawa and honeydip recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUIsauEbq14

The only Japanese reading I do is on panda. Does it count as reading practice?

>>143669609
traditional koto and shamisen music while wearing my yukata and eating a bento

>>143669885
you aren't supposed to stimulate that head

In animal crossing a bulletin board post just uses 5ちょうめの to list a hidden furniture. How am I supposed to know rows from columns?

>>143669973
But that's the only way I can motivate myself to read with my lacking japanese

>you fell for the RTK meme

fool me once

>>143670042
丁目 just refers to the area - they're always placed haphazardly for the most part, in my experience.

at what age did the youngest gaijin passed n1?

>>143671414
i passed it 6 days before my 9th birthday in showa 69

oh woops hehe

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おはようおにちゃん

室温が３５．５度、湿度が６８％

もくよくしないと

ねっちゅうしょうでいのちをおとすかもしれない

いっしょにおみずあびよ

>>143672851
エアコン買え

>>143672851
アイスを食べながらエロゲやろう

>>143672851
>japanese can't survive 25C up
Jesus Christ that's just pathetic

Is there a caps lock equivalent in Japanese? How do I yell in my text

>>143674419
What?

>>143674533
just stick a っつってんだろうぉが！！ on the end of whatever you're saying

>居た堪らない
Is this Dekinai-chan's second favorite word?

>>143675086
Dekinai doesn't know that word, she never learned Japanese.

>>143666406
I've lived in japan a while.

If anything i need to learn more grammar and vocab and kanji.

Of what i know i can read and.speal fairly well

>>143674533
Half-width katakana.

>>143674345
サイカデリク！

>>143662409
>ファッゴトたち
Read more.

>>143667068
>Learning radicals in isolation takes very little time and makes the process of learning kanji (recognition or writing) much easier.
Don't believe Kanji Damage's lies.
Learning radicals before learning jouyou is a waste of time. You should at least KNOW what they are and what part they play at constructing kanji. There are a _lot_ of radical constructs which make no sense whatsoever so don't expect to guess the kanji from the radicals alone; there's no magical formula.
Invest your time into focusing on the jouyou first, then when you're about halfway of kanjis learned (6th grade - about 1000 kanji) start your jukugo vocabulary.
Guessing jukugo meanings by their kanji makes a LOT more sense than guessing kanji meanings by their radicals.
Don't waste your time on radicals.

>>143675705
knowing radicals helps you make meaningful mnemonics to memorize kanji. that's the only reason to really be aware of them at all.

>>143675705
>Learning radicals before learning jouyou is a waste of time.

>Learning ~200 extremely simple and easy symbols over the span of a week that you're going to be seeing everywhere from now on
>Learning ~2000 complicated symbols with poor guidance and poor advice on what things about them you should memorize and what memorizing them is good for

>There are a _lot_ of radical constructs which make no sense whatsoever so don't expect to guess the kanji from the radicals alone; there's no magical formula.

Learning the radicals is not strictly about recognizing the radical concepts or phonetic connections in kanji. Learning the radicals also forces the brain to wire itself to recognize squiggles, and it does so in a much lower stress environment than learning words.

>>143675705
>He thinks memorizing kanji in isolation is useful
>jukugo AFTER the first 1k kanji, not DURING
Consider killing yourself so that you never try to give advice to autodidacs again.

>>143675705
Where does memorizing single-kanji vocabulary play into this? Don't tell me you think memorizing kanji teaches you how to read single-kanji words. That would be silly.

>>143669304
You will be fluent once yo learn those last 12 words

>>143675761
>>143675766
Radicals are just variations of kanji that already exist, so you'll end up absorving them during the course of your studies. That's what I meant when I said knowing what they are.
These are the radicals you should know about: 氵亻扌忄/⺗ ⻌ 艹 宀 阝 灬 飠 彳 犭 衤 ⺮ 礻 广 疒
There. I listed about 75% of all jouyou in existence.
>>143675799
Master the jouyou first and you'll eat up the entire 2K Core in one week.
>>143675835
80% of radicals are jouyou themselves.

>>143676189
>Master the jouyou first and you'll eat up the entire 2K Core in one week.
This is false.

>>143676199
it's an exaggeration
but as someone who has studied kanji i can tell you it's no problem at all doing a hundred cards a day if you know em well
whether or not it's a good idea is a different story though
core 2k is ordered badly and full of useless words

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>>143676189
Wait, you're serious?
>>143676307
>core 2k is ordered badly and full of useless words
Everyone knows this.
>i can tell you it's no problem at all doing a hundred cards a day if you know em well
Do you mean reps or new cards?
You're special if you can handle a hundred new cards a day, period, even if you "learned the joyo". Your personal anecdote is literally irrelevant to other people.

>>143669609
おかえり

>>143676364
hundred new cards
hearing that from you doesn't mean anything unless you've also done half a year of kanji study and afterwards downloaded a vocab deck and cranked up the cards
personal anecdotes are far more relevant than "objective facts" pulled out of somebody's ass

>>143676557
>personal anecdotes are far more relevant than "objective facts" pulled out of somebody's ass
Read: "I'm making shit up"

>>143676307
>core 2k is ordered badly and full of useless words
Lies. The ordering is specially optimized to assist with recognition, and "full of" is a shameless exagggeration, there are only a handful or so.

>>143676631
>The ordering is specially optimized to assist with recognition
The ordering is specially optimized to teach people kanji through vocabulary. It has nothing to do with assisting recognition.

>>143676557
>hearing that from you doesn't mean anything unless you've also done half a year of kanji study and afterwards downloaded a vocab deck and cranked up the cards
What if I told you there were tons of people lurking in this thread RIGHT NOW that did this very thing and never posted about it because it's an embarrassing mistake once they failed at it?

>>143676598
read: "you're making shit up"
>You're special if you can handle a hundred new cards a day, period, even if you "learned the joyo".
baseless claim

an anecdote is worth more than nothing
for the record it is a true anecdote

>>143676557
>half a year of kanji study
Six months to learn 2000 symbols? You're kidding, right? You realize that's only ten to fifteen new kanji per day, right?
>>143676701
>>You're special if you can handle a hundred new cards a day, period, even if you "learned the joyo".
>baseless claim

>Learning radicals before learning jouyou is a waste of time.
baseless claim
>Master the jouyou first and you'll eat up the entire 2K Core in one week.
baseless claim
>it's no problem at all doing a hundred cards a day if you know em well
baseless claim
>core 2k is ordered badly and full of useless words
baseless claim
>an anecdote is worth more than nothing
>for the record it is a true anecdote
Anecdotes are true. That's what makes them anecdotes.

Anecdotes are not generalizable. You're the same as people who see one white bird and think, "birds are white". You cannot say "birds are generally white" until you reach statistical significance, and you cannot say "birds are always right" until you examine each and every last bird.

Learn basic logic.

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>>143675086
>いたたまれない

っていうのはたまにみかけるとおもうよ

いたたまらない、はみたことがないよ

>>143676701
Read: "I'm shifting the burden of truth because I know I don't have a scientific argument"

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>>143676681
if you told me that then i'd ask what else you can see in your crystal ball, wise guy

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>>143676824
i see everything. i see everyone. i know everything. i know everyone.

>>143676779
you know that's not my post

>>143676818
there is no burden of truth because this is not a scientific argument, it's a djt autist smackfight
if there was one it wouldn't have been on me in the first place

>>143676364
>"learned the joyo"
Dunno why you ironically put that between quotation marks, since Japanese kids learn theirs through compulsory education. Perhaps you're a enlightened person who found out a magical way to learn Japanese bypassing the kanji cramming.

>>143676939
>it's a djt autist smackfight
if it's a djt autist smackfight then there are literally no rules and someone shouldn't try to reference "rules" to shut down an objecting to something they said
>>143676958
JSLs all define learning kanji differently. from just keywords or concepts, to on readings, kun readings, writing, etc. pick your combination of things to learn.

>>143676779
>baseless claim
It's based on my personal experience.

>>143677021
Personal experience is, as it were, *literally subjective*. That's what subjectivity means.

>>143676779
15 on average
two cards per kanji
takes about 70 minutes a day
i don't preach this method by the way
in retrospect it worked fine though because the hours of cartoons i would watch each day added up regardless
at the moment i don't lay a finger on anki

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>>143677080
>15 on average
>two cards per kanji
>takes about 70 minutes a day

>>143676779
>and you cannot say "birds are always right" until you examine each and every last bird.
But in what way can I inquire them? I don't speak birdish

>>143677160
Cool, you actually read my post.

>>143677134
includes writing each one by hand several times
at least i'm a scribe now, and don't have to rely on goofy radical search to lookup my un-OCRable kanji

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>>143677192
>>includes writing each one by hand several times

>>143677230
some anons just want to write japanese

>>143662190
>>143663440
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1467610997142.webm

>>143676803
It's an interesting word, isn't it? Kinda reminds me of Shinji's breakdown. I saw this dictionary entry when I was looking up other words in jisho.

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My dream is to become a 南斗神拳伝承者

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のどが渇ていなくても水を飲んだり、
even if you aren't thirsty, drink some water,

i know this is probably really simple but am i correct?

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OH
TV
WATCHING?
fucking sick filth

>>143677758
You didn't post a full sentence

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>>143673170
粋なことこそしやしゃんせ

>>143677758
You should drink enough water, before you feel thirst.

ってやくしてみたけど、あたしのえいごはあてにならないよ

>>143677850
w0t

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>>143677850

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>>143678138
>やしゃんせ
初めて聞いた言葉

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>>143678070
>>143678138
not posting the full thing is pretty stupid, sorry.

のどが渇いていなくても水を飲んだり、たくさん汗が出たときには塩分を取ったりしてください。

>>143678195
>>143678241
the english just made me giggle, like it was such a Big Deal
i have brain problems

>>143678452
same anon

のどが渇いていなくても水を飲んだり
drinking water even if you are not thirsty

たくさん汗が出たときには塩分を取ったりしてください。
brain fart. what the hell this should be simple.

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Finally finished my "Vocab the Kanji" program today, just in time for Independence Day. Now I have a knowledge of all the jouyou kanji's meanings and common on and kun readings. Took approximately 2.5 months. I'm glad it's over. Here is an infographic of my mined deck for the past month for any interested.

A history of the program: After I got through 3k of Core and JTMW+Tae Kim I decided to start reading. I got through Hanahira fine because it was baby easy but then I started Flyable Heart. I quickly grew annoyed at looking up kanji all the time and had difficulty remembering them. So I thought, hey, why not learn all the kanji right off the bat? The problem is that RTK only teaches you english keywords. Admittedly a helpful concept but it would not help me much with actual reading. For that I needed to learn the meanings as well as readings.

So after deliberating for a bit I decided on what to do. I would systematically go through each jouyou kanji, looking them up on jisho, and for each kanji mining at least two common words per common onyomi. I also mined common kunyomi when there were any kunyomi readings. Rinse and repeat for every kanji.

So now I am finally done. Would I recommend others do this program? I liked it but probably not, just because it took so long. At least now kanji lookup will not be such a pain in the ass.

Pros:

- Knowledge of a few thousand basic vocab words (and a few thousand obscurer ones too).
- A good grasp of kanji's phonetic components. No need to memorize the onyomi for 組, 粗, 租, 狙, 祖, 阻, etc. individually; since they all have 且 they all have an onyomi of そ
- A good ability to guess the meaning and reading of any (jouyou) jukugo even if I haven't seen the word before.

Cons:

- Opportunity cost. Like I said earlier this time probably would have been much better spent just reading, but for my special breed of autism I'm glad I got this out of the way so I can just jump into reading and grammar study full blast.

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>>143678544
anon again

たくさん汗が出たときには塩分を取ったりしてください
when a lot of sweat comes out, please take salt

>>143678634
you sound like you get it

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How do you read this one? I have trouble finding it.

>>143678669
掴まえる

>>143678669
http://jisho.org/search/摑

>>143678710
>>143678723
Thanks.

>>143678590
tldr

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>>143678657
yeah i think i just figured it out

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>>143678544
えんぶんをとれるし、にぼしたべよ

ひだりのがおいしいよ

みぎのもおいしいけどちょっと硬いよ

Is it

〜に〜が好き
or
〜は〜が好き

例えば、

日本人に髭が好きじゃない
or
日本人は髭が好きじゃない

I'm pretty sure both are correct, I'm just wondering

>>143678857
i would use には not は but i can't explain why

>>143678886
i meant "には not に", sorry

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>>143678886
>>143678857
I hope you guys are just baiting...

>>143678928
>LOOK AT ME I'M SO GOOD AT NIHONGO

Piss off faggot.

>>143678748

imo 4chan posts cannot be too long to read thanks to the 2000 character limit. That post pushed the limit and was 371 words which is just about 1 minute of reading.

At what age did you become competent in Japanese?

>tfw trying to learn hiragana
>tfw having trouble memorizing

what are some good memorization techniques ?

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>>143678852
いや、それは質の悪いものみたいな。。生の食べ物が嫌い

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>>143679015
It's too long for me

>>143678985
Alright, calm down. But it should be pretty clear that it's supposed to be は, if you've actually looked at what those particles do that is.

Go read up on に and は on taekim or something.

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>>143678590
>spends all this time and effort doing this
>goes back to Flyable Heart
>still can't read it

>>143679096

Fair enough I suppose. To me it just seems kind of silly to say tldr to a 4chan post, it's basically like saying tldr to a twitter post, only not quite as egregious.

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>>143679074
>彼は寿司が好きではない

>>143679067
Write it on the air with your butt. That way you'll have an amusing way of remembering it.

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>>143679160

Yeah, that certainly is true, sadly this isn't really going to help my comprehension much in the short term. For a beginner my language knowledge is stupid slanted towards kanji and vocab. But at least now I can finally just focus on grammar and reading since kanji isn't really a problem anymore. DOIJG and VNs, ho!

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When mining words that have both two readings and meanings, try putting 「other reading」じゃない on the front. This will differentiate the two.

evens i delete core
odds i shoot myself

>>143679130
you missed the part where he was saying he would use something には opposed to に not opposed to は

>>143679597
reroll

>>143679597
>>143679650
tiebreaker

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>>143679360
Don't worry I'm sure you'll be able to succeed.
勇者部五箇条、ひとーつ！
なぜば大抵なんとかなる！

>>143671875
Nice try but Hirohito's reign was a few years shorter.

>>143679634
Yeah, and that doesn't really work either.
Unless you want to say something like日本には髭が好きな人が少ない or 日本人には髭は似合わないor something that is.

>よ in Japanese is a sentence ending particle that adds assertion to the sentence
>Yo in English is a sentence ending interjection that adds assertion to the sentence
>よ in Japanese can be used as a greeting
>Yo in English can be used as a greeting

What a crazy fucking coincidence.

>>143679770
places are people too

>>143679790
shut yo mouth bitch

>>143679790
Aye that's pretty cool.

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>>143679360
>kanji isn't really a problem anymore.
you're not done

>>143679813
Whatever you say anon...

>>143679911
Where can I get all these?

>>143679790
>>Yo in English is a sentence ending interjection that adds assertion to the sentence
no

>>143679589
Why not just guess both?

>>143679931
From reading

>>143678590
>At least now kanji lookup will not be such a pain in the ass.

Literally all you had to do was hover over a word. You were using a texthooker, right?

腕相撲

>>143680423
You mean Japanese cartoons.

>>143680460
You sure make a lot of mistakes for someone who thinks English is "too easy".

>>143678590
As someone who is new, I have no idea what this actually means. Did you finish core 3k and grammar or something? Wouldn't completing it in 2.5months be pretty great?

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>>143679911
もんだいは

あてじだよ

あてじのひどさはすごいよ

にほんじんのあいだでもなんどもコスられるほどだよ

たとえばこれなーんだ

>小女子

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>>143680292
>VNs

>>143680460
>Esperanto

that was doomed from the start, an sjw language with a massive faulty premise: that languages are static and never change over time.

In it's attempt to be neutral in all things, given enough time the exact same definitions would sink into 'untasteful' like retard or spastic by the very people that created it.

>>143680469
Japanese, sure, but non-native speakers yield a barrage of Hollywood-type media often with subtitles (unless you live in France, then you'll get a dub)

I'm Australian, but most media I enjoyed while growing up were Japanese cartoons (but with an American or Canadian dub) as they do in English speaking countries, unfortunately.

I feel if you were young and you only had exposure to dubbed anime (like DBZ and Pokemon) you'd learn English extremely easily and not yield a funny accent.

My friend from Puerto Rico learned English entirely from watching Spongebob Squarepants as he says, and he didn't develop an accent, he sounds native.

I just wish we had shows here in Japanese audio so I could learn a new spoken language of my choice just as non-native speakers learn the language of business.

>>143680628
Esperanto has too many words you can add to nouns, it's a cool concept and easy to remember, but written Esperanto is too repetitive and sounds like shit.

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>>143680703
>puerto rico
so, the US

>>143680703
s/shows/series

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>>143680738
kek, I suppose, the curriculum there is entirely in Spanish, however most foreigners experience an English audio dub with annimemay (often with American or Canadian voice actors, which is why their accent sounds so plain/neutral) when they could just receive original audio with subtitles in their language, it would be significantly better for young children who want to learn a second language easily.

It's all about highest profits though, which definitely makes since for native English speaking countries, as it's far easier to understand audio than to read text if you don't about learning a new language (and you're indoctrinated to believe English is the most useful language from an early age, so it's hard to have desire for learning a new language.

I just wish we could have had a Goku or Ash without a deep neutral sounding English voice with the original audio, we might have been able to know English, the language of business, of course through education, and Japanese, the language of entertainment and porn through undubbed media as a kid and teenager.

>My friend from Puerto Rico learned English entirely from watching Spongebob Squarepants

Either you're a gullible fuck, or your friend was literally molded by memes.

Anytime a language is "purposefully" created it always looks awkward and shitty to me. I hate how Korean looks. Give me the natural clusterfuck of Japanese any day.

>>143680989

I would delete this awful post but it won't let me as it stands now.

>>143680991

It's possible I suppose, but it makes sense a place colonized by America would have easy access to Hollywood

>>143681033

Definitely this. Esperanto is the best example, it's so fucking awkward, but other naturally constructed languages that place emphasis on reusable words & grammar are awful too

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>>143681076
fuck this, I can't bare it any longer

I have to complain to hiroshima on /qa/, there's no need or use for a limit such as this

>>143681033
What's wrong with korean?

>>143681133
Are you the drunk guy?

>>143681153
You mean Hangul? It looks awkward because it was crafted purposely for the reason of being easy for learners to write. It's easy to learn, similar to Hiragana, you could probably be master it in a week.

Why can't /djt/ ever agree on a method to learning shit? Of all threads, not once has anyone somewhat agreed on a learning process. I get that diff people learn differently, but that's not what I mean. For example,
>>143666243
asks how to go forward after learning his gana, but then look at all the replies to this guy essentially saying completely opposite things. To me it doesn't seem like a "this worked best for me" argument, but more of a "this is objectively wrong and will waste your time" argument. like this guy
>>143675705

There's got to be an actual proper way to learn that is malleable for the whole diff strokes diff folks types but is also not something that wastes people's time no matter what.

>>143680989
>you're indoctrinated to believe English is the most useful language from an early age
I don't think this really gets indoctrinated, though english being the most useful language is essentially a fact either way
it's true learning new languages is seen as a worldly hobby or "get it done so you graduate" type of thing, until it's about business, in which case you'll get pushed to learn a rising second-world language like Chinese

I find it extremely difficult to believe you can learn a language at an early age without anyone to speak to

>>143681268
>Why can't anyone ever agree on a method to learning anything?
Fixed for you, my 家族

>>143681251
Hangul's way easier than hiragana, there's less symbols to remember and they all fit together in a logical way

>>143681251
Until you try to learn grammar. Also how can anyone justify the autism that is the Japanese written language? Even learned Japanese don't know enough Kanji because it's such a ridiculous idea. Quite like Chinese.

>>143681268
>There's got to be an actual proper way to learn that is malleable for the whole diff strokes diff folks types but is also not something that wastes people's time no matter what.
You're searching for a single answer where there are a million.
DJT will argue about it til the cows come home either way, might as well pick one method and see where it gets you, rather than trying to narrow it down somehow with a bunch of argument-hungry autists who have each gone through only one learning process and can't possibly tell you anything worthwhile about the rest.

>>143681331
That's why I don't like it. It's lifeless and ugly. Besides, fewer symbols just means most of them look the same which isn't helpful. Not that it matters because there's no reason to learn it unless you're into business or their subpar media.

>>143681332
kanjis are pretty

>>143681331
I learned Hiragana in just a couple days, I couldn't imagine it's easier than Hangul, but maybe it's true. Memorizing easy shapes and their sounds is so simple.

>>143681332
Too bad Japanese entertainment is significantly more entertaining than media from Korea, otherwise we'd all be in a thread learning a much easier language.

>>143681268
>There's got to be an actual proper way to learn that is malleable for the whole diff strokes diff folks types but is also not something that wastes people's time no matter what.
G U I D E
U
I
D
E

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>143681412
this, it's what makes non-constructed languages a joy to learn for people who aren't autistic

Is around 80-85% mature retention normal for a mined deck with 11k vocab that I've been doing for like 9 months or am I just できない?

>>143681417
I wish it was all about Korean entertainment. /dkt/ would just be full of Korean posts because everyone would have finished learning it soon enough.

>>143681379
I think the point is that when comparing things that logically make sense, such as learning radicals, people will argue that it's a waste of time. Million ways or not, that makes no sense. Nobody learns to fly an airplane by just fucking getting in one and going ham. There's a proper way to do it, sure you can change it up to suit you, but the building blocks you need should never really change.

>>143680703
I still watch Hollywood movies with English subtitles. It helps me in assuring that I heard the words correctly.

>>143681510
If that's really what you got out of that post, then just kill yourself. Take your memes with you.

>>143681565
<90 % mature retention is 出来ない, yes.

>>143681568
>Nobody learns to fly an airplane by just fucking getting in one and going ham.
Just couldn't stop yourself could you

>>143681594
Are you a non-native speaker? Hollywood sucks nowadays, they haven't done anything I like in several years.

As a non-American, I think movies with Canadian and American voices are the easiest to understand for non-native speakers as the accent is completely neutral.

It's also why our actors are so good at replicating the accent when they go to Hollywood.

>>143681568
>Nobody learns to fly an airplane by just fucking getting in one and going ham
while that may be a pretty bad idea for an airplane, there's plenty of things that strategy actually does work for as long as you have some guidance on what the proper way to do them looks like
personally i did study radicals for a week or two before i studied kanji, but i can see how you could go without either of those and just brute force your way through core
that way just seemed harder and more stressful to me so i didn't do it

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>>143681666
Guilty.

>>143681626
The guide is exactly what the quoted question is looking for.

>>143681635
自殺します

I don't know why I have such a hard time remember vocab in anki, despite seeing them over and over again hundreds if not thousands of times

>>143681379
>a bunch of argument-hungry autists who have each gone through only one learning process and can't possibly tell you anything worthwhile about the rest.
Says the insecure autist wasting his entire day shitposting on /djt/ without actually engaging in arguments he starts.

>It's another beginners talking about anki and kanji episode

See ya lads this got boring fast

>>143681670
Native speaker but my hearing is not good that's why I use subtitles. If no subtitles then it's also ok.

>>143681695
The quoted question was trying to get around the guide, seeing as it's the thing that gets brought into question constantly by argumentative autists on DJT. You'd be kidding yourself if you really thought the guide was unanimously agreed upon as the singular holy stairway to japanese masterhood.

>>143681767
>beginners talking about how to learn a language in a thread made for people to learn the language
wow

>>143681742
>defending pointless argument
>making it out like you're trying to start one
no one can go this far and still be 百%本気
not falling for it!

>>143681695
The quoted question is pointing out that people disagree in a quite absolute way (not subjective) with the guide and is asking why this is. You should probably get your English reading comprehension taken care of before trying Japanese.

>>143681788
>never read the guide
>complain about it anyway
Amazing

The guide doesn't tell you the one right way to learn Japanese, it tells you what learning Japanese consists of and gives you the resources needed to make one for yourself.

>>143681862
So it's not what >>143681268 was looking for at all then, is it.

>>143681133
i think reddit would be more to your tastes

>>143681862
Which is the point. I'm not that guy. He's asking why people are saying learning radicals first is objectively wrong. It's obvious he did read the guide, hence the question. Reading the guide has fuckall to do with it. How can you be this fucking stupid?

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さまってよぶ
awakening call?

>>143682013
ハンバーグ様って呼ぶ

>>143681940
I find it wrong because individual kanji are mostly useless, it's much easier and faster to learn entire words and their representative kanji characters.

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>>143681565
できるよ

まってるよ

>>143681788
see
>>143681845

Plenty of ESL's here today.

>>143682084
ah cheers, was over thinking it

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Reminder that if you haven't watched a film by 黒澤明 you can't learn Japanese.

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>>143662101
What level of reading is Dragon Ball?
I want to try reading Japanese manga and Yotsubato isn't for me.

I only ask because I plan on buying a hard copy. I'm autistic like that.

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>>143682186
Maybe a 1.4 or so

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>>143682116
hold on a minute, did you just call me an ESL
i'll tell you just this once, i'm not an ESL, buddy

>>143682186
the grammar is easy, but be prepared to be looking up pretty much every other word

it took me 4 hours to read 40 pages

>>143682102
The point of learning radicals is to teach yourself to recognize certain aspects of a kanji and get your brain to differentiate kanji. It doesn't matter if you learn what the radical itself means, that is useless. If you memorize the handful of radicals, you can much easily differentiate between kanji that include the same radical. Had you just memorized the kanji itself without having your brain make that extra trigger, it's easier to confuse kanji with the same radicals. See >>143675766

>>143682174
am I allowed subtitles

>>143682186
Why don't you download it first and see if it's at your level? Or if you really love it just get it anyway.

>>143682104
ありがとぉ；＿；

>>143682228
>Majikoi a 3
God damnit they''ll be translated by the time I'm at a proper level

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>>143682230
>not capitalizing 'I'
That rule was drilled into English speakers when they were children. Maybe you're not an ESL but there clearly is something wrong with you.

>>143682301
First three are basically at "turn on text hooker and just read you bitch" tier.

>>143682237
>it took me 4 hours to read 40 pages
Nobody is this shit at reading, right? I'm completely incompetent and barely read, but even I can manage 40 pages in 20 minutes.

>>143682390
As luck would have it I'm mostly interested in A4 and A5

>>143682453
What are you reading, anon?

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>>143682228
>tfw hanahira is completely fucking my shit up
is there any hope left for me at all?

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>>143682511
You know the answer.

>tfw my professor has set me up for a comfy work from home translator job if i pass the N1 JLPT this december

I probably won't pass, though.

>>143682577
>JLPT N1 is enough qualification to become a translator
kimochi warui

>>143682577
>tfw no one cares

>>143682605

lmaoooo, yes that's the only qualification needed. some translators don't even have that.

>>143682627

yes, i know.

>>143682186

dragon ball is for general audience, because furigana

there are other furigana manga lik ToLoveRu + darkness

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>>143682577
I care, tell me more.

>>143682104
うむ

>>143682984

what more is there?

if you pass the n1, you can basically work in japan no questions ask and its pretty easy to get a translation job if you pass it.

>>143682984
>tell me more
of what thats a complete story
they'd have to be more like his professor is an alien with a detachable ghost penis

>>143683042
Nuh-uh
>>143683085
He could talk about who would be hiring him, for example. He's probably lying anyway which is why he can't give any more details.

>>143683127

lol, now i remember why I stopped coming to these threads.

>無人安全完全無料市民交通移動システム

Feels good being able to read that and pretending I'm super できる even though it's pretty much the easiest string of words possible

>>143683243
>lol
Go and stay go

>>143683305
>安全完全
eheh

How do you even pronounce the words "he" or "she" when talking/writing about someone?

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Ok so first of all I memorize all the katakana and hiragana, right?

>>143684477
ひー、しー

>>143684525
Read the guide before asking questions.

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>>143684477
ひぃ

すぅぃー

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>>143684525
yeah, here's a chart

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>>143684709
>すぅぃー

>>143684619
>>143684709
>>143684771
And if it's romanticized??

>>143684895
ロード
レディー

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>>143684709
>すぅぃー
なにそれ
how do you say b in japan

>>143684954
ぶぅぃー

>>143685035
hehe thats it 正解 ╭( ･ㅂ･)و

>>143685138
やった！ ٩(ˊᗜˋ )و

>>143684739
Wow, that's actually pretty useful.

>>143684739
Where did you find this? Don't know how useful it is, but it's certainly interesting.

>>143685284
Kanji grid man made it a few weeks back

>>143685330
>Kanji grid man
Who?

>>143685347
The guy who made that kanji grid

>>143685360
I gathered that much, but who is he? What site is he from?

>>143685410
Kanji grid man's site.

>>143685470
殺すぜ

>>143685535
It was just some guy in one of the threads not long back

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>>143685535

>>143669973
Actually I heard that sexual excitement increases the learning effect - something along the lines of your brain associating the studied matter with pleasure.

社畜が帰宅しました

>>143685708
Reading ero Jap shit is always just distracting more than anything imo, I always end up speeding through it and barely paying attention

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>>143685708
>do this
>cant talk to any native without getting wood

I love watching shows where even if I miss a few words here and there, it doesn't matter at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awAR4IaxYmo

how long did it take you to finish core2k (100% mature)?

Why is software translation of Japanese so garbage?

At first I was willing to accept it as the way things are, but the more Japanese I learn the more it seems like it shouldn't be so much more difficult than other languages.

>>143685861
doesn't matter

and you should do 2k6k at the very least

>>143685861
If you think you're going too slowly, you are. 20 cards a day is the absolute minimum.

>>143685870
The more I learn, the more I understand how impossible it is for parsing software. So much is based on context.

>>143685916
Japanese is very far from being the only contextual language. But it seems to be the worst for machine translation.

>>143685916
>If you think you're going too slowly, you are. 20 cards a day is the absolute minimum.
I think that's exactly what I needed to hear, thanks Anon.

>>143686005
Not only is context a bitch, parsing kana is very complex, AND the language is very far removed from English in terms of sentence structure. It's perfectly understandable why machines struggle with it so much.

Been learning hiragana 3 hours a day for the past 6 months, tell me does it get easier after this?

>>143686252
ebin

>>143686252
After you get hiragana down, you're basically done, and can read all the kids manga you want. It should only take you another year if you're good.

明日は帰国する。

can you reccomend me some good vocab and kanji decks to study for N4?

Also, don't you have some listening material?

>>143683042
>if you pass the n1, you can basically work in japan no questions ask and its pretty easy to get a translation job if you pass it.

you don't know shit about translating,do you? Have fun.

>>143662101
Anyone else kinda get frustrated at a lack of progress? I dedicate 30 minutes a day to space repetition of kanji and vocab (15 on vocab, 15 on kanji) and I've been doing this since last September. Whenever I see the kanji in Anki I'm able to recognize it, but I fail to recall it when attempting to write it out... It doesn't help that I remember the kana pronunciation more then I remember the actual kanji/vocabulary.

>>143686732
30 minutes isn't very much time at all, if you want to get better at remembering kanij and vocab then you should really start reading, reading native material is about a thousand times more effective than using SRS

Even with that though, language learning is a very slow process, even if you do spend hours a day learning you still don't even really notice the progression because it's stretched out over such a long period of time

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>/v/ crying over some team named 8-4 being selected for nier automata translation
>all the tools are right here
>easy to use
>make progress everyday

they waste time bitching about poor translations instead of investing in themselves

>>143686705
There are professional Jap translators under N1, The standards are not high.

>>143687030
What do you expect? Some people would rather eat dog food with a picture of an anime girl on the can, instead of spending 5 minutes making themselves a fresh omelette. Investing time into something is a lost art in the era of instant gratification where more entertainment than you could ever consume is 2 clicks away.

>[Ohys-Raws] New Game! - 01 (AT-X 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4

>>143687437
>it already aired

FUCK

>>143669609
Music is distracting.

>>143670810
I wish I would have found the kana deck earlier. RTK really wasn't helping.

>>143687660
Nobody ever recommends remembering the kana, and rightfully so. People who talk about RTK mean remembering the kanji.

>>143678590
Are you me? I started doing the same thing. It's pretty good I think, because you only invest a lot of time ones and after this you good the readings of the most common Kanji down. Of course Jinmeiyou Kanji also appear but with the On and Kun of the JYK it's really easier to read and look up words IMO.
Some Kanji like you explained are totally useless. It's kinda like Tae Kim explains in his post about the NJYK
>The first character on the list is 「亜」 for crying out loud! For all you know, that’s the most useful character in the world when in fact I have never used it in all my years of study. Do YOU write 「アジア」 and 「アメリカ」 as 「亜細亜」 and 「亜米利加」? I sure hope not! I thought for a second that maybe it’s used in the word 「唖然」 but no, not even! If anything, 「唖」 belongs in the list much more than 「亜」 if you ask me
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/08/14/the-new-joyo-kanj-and-why-we-shouldnt-give-a-damn/

>tldr
Good thing if you are NEET because one time invest
Bad is you learn useless shit

>>143688171
I know, but at least I have a neat reference.

>>143688171
>Nobody ever recommends remembering the kana

its in the pastebin though isnt it?
when i started people recommended remembering the kana to me and it helped

So what do I do when I don't get a sentence? I've no idea how you "dissect" one or look up grammar I don't know

>>143687235
I.. I don't know what to say, I'm working my ass to study as an English translator, and it's HARD. I want to go in japan some day anyway, I might as well try to become a translator there.

>>143688171
I recommend it occasionally. It is what I used. These days I usually ignore posts about learning kana though.

>>143689026
I can't think of anything less fun than being a translator.

>>143689095
it depends on what you're translating: for example, the other day I translated a document regarding dim stars and some pages of an old novel; it was pretty fun.

>>143687437
>がんばるぞ
what a fucking farce

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Who would /djt/ like to meet one day?

>>143689179
Seriously?

>>143688767
Look up words, google words, google parts, give up and skip it. In this order.

>>143679911
I keep seeing similar images popping up. What are they from?

How do you select manually what you want to parse with rikai?

>>143689345
死神

>>143682457
This is a joke right? You didn't actually misunderstand what he was saying that hard

>>143689962
お前の顔は冗談だよ

なんちゃって

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How much compelling content did you today /djt/?

>>143690904
I'm about to start watching today's anime
Aiming for 10 episodes

>NEW GAME! #01 (AT-X HD!).ts
>ts
Would this have Japanese subs in it?

A big mistake people make when they approach the languages of Japanese is that they assume Japanese is just one solid language. That's far from the truth. In reality, Japanese is split into four different spheres, each of which you have to independently study and learn (though naturally they share elements in the form of basic vocabulary and grammar).

1) Stream of Consciousness Japanese, also known as Spoken Japanese: This sphere of Japanese has the lowest average vocabulary level of any form of Japanese, but what really sets it apart from all over forms of Japanese is the immense difficulty of the grammatical composition. It's wild, loose, and hard to understand. The trademark of this sphere is knowing every word someone says, but having no fucking clue what they mean. If you only learn this, you won't be able to read anything or keep up with the news.
2) Media Japanese, also known as Written Japanese: This sphere of Japanese has an average level of vocabulary and grammar and is what the majority of people in DJT learn as it appears in VNs, manga, and anime. On a whole, it encapsulates most vocab used in Spoken Japanese in addition to more thanks to the variety of situations media covers. The grammar is easier than spoken Japanese significantly. If you just learn this, you won't be able to follow people's twitter or youtube blogs well at all or keep up with the news.
3) Business Japanese, also known as College-educated Adult Japanese: This is basically its own language with tons of grammar used no where else and an immense number of vocabulary terms you won't see anywhere else. If you don't specifically read political and economic articles for hours a day, you'll never be able to keep up.
4) Literary Japanese, also known as Oh Fuck My Head Japanese: This is basically "fuck you, you can't learn this". It's the sphere of Japanese pretty much everyone runs away from. It has infinite vocabulary and varying difficulties of grammar according to the writer.

https://yotsubatonihongo.blogspot.com/
who needs anki decks when you have spanish blogs translating japanese into english for you

If the amount of cards I'm doing per day is getting overwhelming, should I half the amount of new cards rather than limit my reviews?

Would it be possible to set up a google doc or something to translate New Game with anyone on /djt/ who wants to help?

>>143691710
>should I half the amount of new cards rather than limit my reviews?
absofuckinglutely
>>143691937
if you're on DJT and learning you shouldn't be translating

>>143691963
>if you're on DJT and learning you shouldn't be translating
Not everyone is as bad as you at Japanese while still lurking these threads

>>143692071
>I'm not an elementary schooler, I just hang out with the elementary schoolers because I'm in 6th grade and it makes me feel strong!

>>143691937
Anything is possible if you dream hard enough.

>>143689345
／ｄｊｔ／の皆さん

>>143691283
Yes

>>143692171
Most of the people that actually post here regularly are N2/N1

>>143692264
More like N3 according to JCat scores that people post. Maybe we have a lot of self-assessed "N1"s though

File: kanji grid.png (92KB, 774x1638px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 774x1638px

>>143679911
>>143678590
Welp I guess I really can't learn Japanese.

Can anyone recommend me a nice way to suicide?