In the original timeline why didn't Goku just have someone

Even if he got wished back he'd die instantly again.

Why couldn't they just wish for Shenron to heal him?

Why can't they just wish for eternal peace through out all galaxies, universes, alternate realities, dimensions, and everywhere else?

>>143519033
Hillary Clinton supporter detected

>>143519081
Nah. Fuck that cunt. I'm voting for Deez Nuts.

The funny thing is that the original timeline ends up with an Earth practically devoid of powerful beings.

>>143518036
Same reason they couldnt just bring him back after the cell games; he'd already been wished back using the dragon balls and you can only do that once.

>>143519033
Do the Dragon balls have rules or limits to them?
Like I know you can't wish back someone from the dead if they are alive but what are other examples?

>>143519439
can't fuck the plot up

>>143519439
You can't wish for something that exceeds the god's power. Meaning they're essentially useless except for reviving people.

>>143519439
The wishes can't exceed the power of the one who created them. That's why you have the Super Dragon Balls which apparently have no limitation unlike the regular DBs.

>>143519768
Could the Namekian Dragon Balls recreate an Earth with all of its population?

Because they'd have to ask fucking Namek, and he'd be brought back with the virus and die again.

>>143520111

Well they could of worked on a work in the mean time and gave it to him right when he was revived.

>>143519917
Umm, they did?

why didn't Trunks try to find the dragon balls to bring back some of the Z fighters?

>>143519768
>can't exceed the power of the one who created them
In other words, Namekians can revive people? I never understood this "can't exceed their power." Is that just like "you can't wish to destroy Frieza, but since someone with a powerlevel of <9000 can theoretically have the ability to revive the dead, that's A-OK"?

>>143519033
No because Goku and Vegeta likes to fight.

They literally could have prevented the android saga but no dude lmao let's test our strength

>>143521045
Android and Cell Saga*

>>143520935
It's a adventure/comedy story telling gimmick that simply doesn't work well together with power level fighting.

>>143518036
How is dying of a virus a more "natural death" than being killed by someone?

That's fucking retarded. If shenlong can cure your mortal wounds upon revival, then he should be able to do the same of a disease.

"Natural death" as a limitation is meant for dying of old age you idiots, and even that is quiestionably permanent, since you can use 2 wishes to wish their bodies young again before you revive them.

>>143519033
Because eternal peace is unattainable.

>>143519033
Did you even watch these animes?

The balls have had rules since DB.

>>143519033
because zeno-sama said bow down you soft faggy

kidding

his judgement is done with a neutral smile :3

>>143520906
Because he's incompetent and would summon someone useless out of sentiment, like gohan.

HOW ABOUT ASKING THE FUCKING DRAGON TO CURE THE FUCKING DISEASE, NOT SO FUCKING HARD IF BULMA COULD FIND A CURE

Okay guys what if
>Trunks takes Goku to the future
>Goku uses instant transmission to go to Neo-Namek
>They revive piccolo and kami
>They revive everyone else
>Wish for time machine fuel to take goku back

There, god. Trunks is stupid and so is future bulma.

>>143525134
An easy answer would be muh timelines and muh don't interfere, but a counter argument would be
>Bulma builds spaceship
>visit namek to revive piccolo, for the second time
woo so difficult

>>143525134
>Trunks is stupid and so is future bulma
FGoku is a fucking douche, he could just told Trunks where New Namek was.

>>143520906
>>143524303
Piccolo was dead you dinks, there was no dragon balls and nobody knew the way to Namek.

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>>143525277
He was too dead to...

Wait, why the fuck DIDN'T he?
He could just ask King Kai to tell them.

>>143525277
>>143525343

He probably went to heaven as a soul instead of king kai's planet.

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>>143525408
Why? He never has before.

>>143525318
Asking King Kai was too difficult, eh?
And don't pull a
>he mustn't interfere
Nigga interfere'd many times in the past

>>143525472
Maybe he stopped giving a fuck since his eternal husbando was dead and living on his planet.
I mean do we really understand the Kais, the Gods seem rather dicks and not giving a fuck, I would put King Kai interference down to his fondness of Goku since he is his prized student.

Nigger I don't know, this is Dragon Ball you do not need a magnifying glass to see the major plot holes.

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And even IF Goku was too dick to tell them, why didn't they ask Uranai Baba?

I mean she sees the future, so she wouldn't have died to the
Wait she sees the future, why the fuck did we need Future Trunks?

Also why the fuck did Arale not defeat the Androids?

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Since Z-Fighters minus Vegeta keep their bodies in the afterlife, what do you think they're doing and discussing? Regret? Watching Earth?

>>143519033
>Z fags skip Dragon Ball classic and then ask why this thing that was clearly addressed multiple times was never brought up and call it a plot hole

Dragon Ball has objectively the worst fanbase of all time.

>>143518036
Why didn't he just get a heart transplant?

>>143525640
FGohan must be crying blood tears watching FTrunks. The rest are just chilling and training with FGoku.

>>143525134
Kami dragonballs aren't strong enough to wish back people whos bodies are gone.

Also to answer the previous question about killing goku while he had the disease and wishing him back, no one probably thought the disease would do him in, second, he was already wished back once, so earth's dragonballs couldn't cut it.

Heres a thought why did they not gather the dragon balls since that has not been a difficult task since the first time and wish Goku's disease away.

>>143518745
>>143519439


>Shenron can bestow any wish as long as it does not exceed the power of his creator, who must still be alive when he is summoned (i.e. Kami or Dende). He is unable to restore life to those that have died because of old age (but he can restore a person's youth), sickness or any other natural deaths. In the beginning of Dragon Ball Z, it is revealed that Shenron cannot grant the same wish more than once (e.g. bringing back those from the dead that have been killed before, etc.) and he also cannot grant a wish to defeat or kill a living being that surpasses the power of his creator (this means that the Dragon can't kill an enemy that Kami or Dende themselves are incapable of killing).

http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shenron

>>143526005
>Kami dragonballs aren't strong enough to wish back people whos bodies are gone.
Why would Goku's body be gone? He died of a heart attack, not vaporization.

>so earth's dragonballs couldn't cut it.
You realize WHY they went to Namek the first time?

>>143519033
the dragon balls can't affect beings stronger than kami, this is why they cannot just kill the villains with them nor force goku to return to earth against his will, so if they made that wish anyone stronger than kami would be unaffected, rendering the wish useless because if they're weaker than kami they wouldn't be able to do anything relevant anyway.

>>143526236
>sickness or any other natural deaths.
Sickness was never outright stated to be impossible. People assume it must be included in "natural death" because they never revived future Goku. However, if sickness is natural death then so is a punch through the torso.

>>143520935

some people have special powers, like dende can heal any wound that you survive, apparently this means that reviving the dead isn't out of the scope of kami's power

>>143519081
Sounds more like a Sanders supporter to me. Hillary loves war.

Though maybe her supporters haven't noticed that yet.

>>143525579

dragon ball does not have major plot holes. later on it's established that king kai straight up didn't even notice what was going on on earth because he has other places to watch (goku is the one who tells him about cell)

later on goku doesn't seem to know much of what's going on on earth while he was dead

>>143525756

does goku have healthcare? is he even in the government's official system? does he have money to afford surgery? and even if he has all of those things, it's not like you just instantly get surgery as soon as you apply for it, they need to wait for an organ to be available for you, with the speed that goku died they had no time for that.

also it's a virus, it'd likely just spread to the donor organ

>>143526139

the guy who could gather the dragonballs in like an afternoon was goku himself and that was because he could teleport, the disease seems like it'd have killed him shortly after it took affect(and therefore, shorty after them finding out about it) so they'd likely have no time to go collect the dragon balls

also, if the dragon can't revive those who died of sickness, then wouldn't it make sense he couldn't magically cure the sickness either?

>>143526345

dying of a naturally made normal earth disease seems like a rather natural death. being murder by a super powered warrior not so much.

>>143526801
>dying of a naturally made normal earth disease seems like a rather natural death. being murder by a super powered warrior not so much.

Why is dying because you were attacked by a very small organism more natural than dying because you were attacked by a much larger one?

And fuck's sake, they were able to revive the Guru because "stress" didn't count as a natural death.

>>143518036
If you die once you are dead for good according to earth dragon balls, namekians are the only ones that say lol at your rules but Namek went kaboom and without Dende there aint no fucking namekian balls to use you stupid fuck.

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I love how Future Gohan looked so much like Goku as opposed to current Gohan.

>>143527044
Think Future Bulma tapped that?

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>>143526974

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>>143527069
Probably, anon.

>>143527108
Christ 18 is so hot.

>>143526974
Dende is still alive, Goku doesn't go to get him until after Piccolo fuses with Kami.

It's not like Trunks knows who Dende is though or how to get to New Namek. I bet Toriyama doesn't even remember New Namek is a thing though.

>>143527180
SO are you.

>>143527069
https://youtu.be/UzF6kZwgSgI?t=616
Use headphones warning

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>>143527205

>>143527108
>This fucking potential fucking wasted
I truly hate Toriyama. We could get this team.

>>143527044
This gohan was badass. Too bad he was too weak. I can't believe the teengohan was able to unlock his potential while this adult gohan kept getting his ass kicked by androids. I mean come on. The murders of all his friends should have pushed him to super saiyan and then super saiyan two.

>>143527375
>Toriyama
>Giving women a non-support role

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>>143527395
TeenGohan had Goku, who is arguably the greatest trainer in the universe based on his results with Gohan and Pan.

Also the Webm I wanted to post has sounds so you get this.

Why didn't they get the namek dragon balls to revive goku?

>>143527714
They died took fast to get to new namek

>>143525469
because he die before Android appear, so he think the world don't need him anymore

>>143528186
The fuck does that have to do with anything? Good people keep their bodies in the afterlife, ask Goku's grandpa.

>>143528248
because at that time the world have no problem so he probably move to other world

>>143526894

Under the rules of Dragonball, sickness is a natural occurrence. Stress from Frieza is not. Could you find a logical loophole? Yes. That's how they managed to get Shenron to revive Guru. But them's the rules. Shenron is a dick for exact wording. He always has been. It's time to get over it.

>>143528341
No he wouldn't. 1st, because good people don't get scrubbed and reincarnated. 2nd, because as you see after Cell, he never stops training.

>>143528386
>Under the rules of Dragonball, sickness is a natural occurrence. Stress from Frieza is not.
Man, just say it's a plot hole instead of this weird doublethink bullshit. And they never said disease was a natural cause, people just assume this because Goku of the future wasn't revived.

Why did Shenron resurrect Frieza as a pile of body parts?

He resurrected other characters in one piece. And we're talking about characters who have had holes blown through their torso, limbs cut/blown off, etc.

>>143528650

For the storyline.

>Shenron is just a dick.

>>143528650
>>143528778
Probably just that, he has to fufil the wish seemingly but frieza was an evil dude, he probably just wanted to fuck with him in any way he could

>>143528650
Also, Shenron is able to grant two wishes due Dende's upgrade.

Sorbet and Tagoma sure took their sweet ass time to think of a second wish.
>oh shit, Lord Frieza is alive, but he's in pieces. We should stick his parts in a healing machine and wait it out
>or, use our second wish from the dragon to restore his body back to the way it was!

>>143528650

Shenron knows how much of a dick frieza is and decided to go by the words because fuck frieza.

>>143528778

He added extra ice packs for the worlds best ice cream, he's not a bad guy.

>>143528865
I think he can grant 3, but resurrecting many people at once spends 2.

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>Dragonballs can only grant wishes that are within the power of the one that made them
So why do they waste wishes when they could ask the Namekians to revive people?

>>143527667
>who is arguably the greatest trainer in the universe
Goku in Z said they have to train in SSJ form, Goku in Super they have to train their base form.
>and Pan
Don't you mean Gohan, Piccolo and Pan's super genes?

>>143529052
>Goku in Z said they have to train in SSJ form, Goku in Super they have to train their base form.
Super is shit what does that have to do with anything?

>Don't you mean Gohan, Piccolo and Pan's super genes?
I don't think Piccolo fucked Videl

>>143519395
If i remember correctly Goku actually wished to stay dead so he could fight strong warriors in the after life.

Something that bugs me is that Future Trunks came back on time with the SOLE purpose of avoiding the hell of his time happen so he could change his own time. When he actually did, and he returned to his time after gohan killed Cell...everything was exactly the same.
What the fuck was the point of going all trhough he went to change barely a shit?

>>143529521
when he went back to his time he murdered 17 18 and imperfect Cell like they were nothing, and then managed to beat Babidi and Dabura before Buu woke up.

without Black Goku he wouldn't have needed to do anything at all

>>143519395
>>143526974
>>143528386
1. They could use the Namek Dragon Balls

> B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-BUT HOW?!?
Shut the fuck up. They have Dragon Balls on Earth that could warp them to Namek.

> dragon ball does not have major plot holes

That is the stupidest fucking thing anyone on /a/ has ever said. Ever.

The series is filled with contradictions every single episode. It has been established that characters move faster than the human eye can see, yet in the last arc, a character who could stop time for .1 seconds barely had time to do an attack? .1 seconds should be a lifetime for them, considering how many power ups they've gone through.

>>143529641
>and then managed to beat Babidi and Dabura before Buu woke up.
One of the few actually good things Super has done.

>>143529667
Dragon Ball / Z has plenty of plot holes but Super has more than both combined.

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>>143529131
Piccolo is training his son and granddaughter.

>>143529521
I liked DBZ Abridged's take on this.

>Trunks wanted to change the past
>him & his mom are just beginning to tinker with time travel; no other person on Earth has tried before
>there's a lot that they don't know about time travel
>altering the past could change their timeline, OR if it works by multiverse theory, their own timeline will stay the same, but there will be an alternate timeline where the changes stick
>well, shit, turns out it works by multiverse theory after all
>so their own time is unchanged
>ie. they took a gamble; they thought it would change something, but all it did was create a separate offshoot

>>143529641
>>143529675
Trunks was able to prevent Majin Buu's uprising because the Kaioshin warned him ahead of time.

I wonder why they never extended the same courtesy in the main timeline. Hell, it should've been easier. They had damn near the whole gang to take care of Dabura and Babidi. Trunks had to do it by himself.

>>143529959
I think the main issue there was vegeta, as well as teen gohan not being strong enough to beat dabura

>>143530250
What the fuck? Vegeta could have killed Dabura easily. Dabura around Cell's power level.

>>143530462
Except goku and vegeta probably wanted buu to appear to fight him, and vegeta went all majin

>>143529719
That's not what genes mean anon.

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>>143528975
Why don't we get more of best girl in super?

>>143529959
>I wonder why they never extended the same courtesy in the main timeline.
What do you mean? The Kaioshin not only warned them, but joined them in battle.

If you mean why the Kaioshin didn't say anything BEFORE the tournament, that's because they needed to find Babidi. In trunk's timeline it's much easier since he's the only remaining powerful being on earth. They were guaranteed to go to him.

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ready to be BLACKED?
hide your lolis hide you waifus hide your traps he be BLACKING everybody in this mother..

>>143526801
He is not talking about resurrecting you retard. He is talking about healing his hearth condition when he was alive.

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>>143531080

>>143531277
That has nothing to do with piccolo. And it's fucking stupid Super writing too, how the fuck does she know how to fly and how can she sustain it enough to go into fucking space?

>>143530478
Goku gave up defending earth when he died. Didn't Goku say that SSJ3 was enough to beat Buy but he wanted the new generation to be able to protect the earth or some shit?

>>143531336
Anon, are you stupid? Good genes + Papa and Grandpa Piccolo's training= The Pan of EoZ

>>143531388
Fuck my phone, I meant Buu.

>>143531420
Again, you don't fucking know what GENES is.

>>143531336
She's seen people fly before

>>143529052
>Goku in Z said they have to train in SSJ form, Goku in Super they have to train their base form.
It made sense to train SSJ at the time since it was still a huge boost up and they really didn't have that much time to train, giving their training a real sense of urgency. SSJ was also a new form for everyone and they were exploring it and figuring it out.

It makes sense that in Super, after years of mastering and understanding the form, he's now training his base form and, since things are relatively peaceful, there's no harm in doing so.

>>143525623

Yeah, so odd to think that Arale actually "died" all those times Earth was destroyed or whatever, if both mangas are in the same planet, then how come it can be cartoony borderline THE MASK powers from Arale then be so "real" in Dragonball, imagine if they actually used Arale in a battle, she might not be a god, but considering she could punch the Earth in two when Goku was still a kid, then King Piccolo wasn't a threath to her, the Dr. also created a time machine before Bulma, so, what's the deal here?

>>143526236
Nothing in there about healing a sick person that's still alive.

>>143531446
Being a Saiyan hybrid and the child of Mystic Gohan. If you don't like it complains to Toriyama.

>>143531432
dumb phoneposter...

>>143531458
So had Gohan and he couldn't magically do it despite being four times her age. Just because everyone learned doesn't mean it's that easy of a technique, the turtle school didn't know how to do it until the last budokai of Dragon Ball.

See, Pan at the end of DBZ made sense: she had Gohan's potential, but she was allowed to train with Goku from a young age, so she was strong and could fly.
Super just threw a wrench on that and just made it her magical bloodline ability because the writing team is legitimately retarded.

>>143531518
Toriyama is a senile hack, what else is new?

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If Kami/Dende made the balls and the balls can not do anything that is beyond the power of the creator, why couldn't they just ask Kami/Dende to revive them and cut out the middleman?

>>143531566
>doesn't mean it's that easy of a technique
VIdel with the same power level that Chi Chi learned it, it seems it's a tricky technique to learn but not a hard one.

>>143531566
Clearly she's smarter than any of the other saiyans, probably because she's only 1/4th saiyan

>>143531683
>VIdel with the same power level that Chi Chi learned it,
Yes, because Gohan taught her delicate chi control and so she learned.

Pan can't even fucking talk.

>>143531687
She still hasn't learned not to shit herself. Goku was on an interplanetary mission of conquest by that age.

>>143531566
And Gohan got SSJ faster than Goku and Goten much much faster than Gohan.

What was your point again? Its only natural for Pan, who has the semen of Goku and Mystical Gohan running through her veins to be so powerful.

>>143531797
>And Gohan got SSJ faster than Goku and Goten much much faster than Gohan.
Gohan was TAUGHT, you enormous moron, and super Saiyan isn't a complex technique, it is based entirely on how pissed you get. Note that Goten could't fly despite being a super saiyan.

Pan is too young to be able to learn anything abstract. Her being able to fly is fucking retarded.

>>143531566
Filler seems to have its own canon. It might be better to compare filler to other filler to find consistency.

Hidden potential usually showed in Gohan when he distressed, and it seems very likely that Pan just has more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPGmBOIkFNk

Also, flying may have been a technique one had to learn, but it's entirely possible Toriyama forgot this (as he's forgotten many things) and it simply may be just needing enough Ki.

>>143531459
Training their base would help them to make their SSJ form stronger. I don't see the problem, and by training their body they would make it more resilient to stand the stamina lost.

>>143531893
>and it seems very likely that Pan just has more.
I can buy that, the problem is not that Pan is "more powerful", just that she is doing a relatively complex technique she has no way of knowing, and she wasn't even distressed either.

I don't even blame Toriyama here, it's clear the Super writers didn't watch Dragon Ball, sometimes it seems they didn't watch Super itself.

>>143531945
>Training their base would help them to make their SSJ form stronger.
Goku discovered in the Cell Saga that perfecting your SS form also improved your base.

Super basically disregards everything about the Cell Saga tough. Like how Goku perfected the SS to not cause him emotional turmoil or even waste any ki.

>>143519033
That sounds like communism. Are you a fucking commie?

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>asking all these questions from a manga made by a man who wanted money to buy cigs

>>143519768
So why not use the super dragon balls to become infinitely powerful?

>>143533951
Why not just punch yourself in the face over and over using dende as a senzu kit

>>143525251
Goku himself said new Namek was so far away it was hard for even him to sense them though. Bulma would have to somehow build a GT-tier radar that could reach the whole universe.

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>>143529052
>Goku in Z said they have to train in SSJ form, Goku in Super they have to train their base form.
Training in SSJ is to get used to SSJ, so when you try to power up your muscles dont get out of control making you slower, because your body is used to the power of SSJ, thats the whole idea. Its how you achieve SSJ2 instead of ending in SSJ1.5 that Trunks went to.
Also, Goku himself was show training in base form before going to the tournament in the buu arc and choosing super saiyan to train only because there was no choice.

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>>143531336
>how the fuck does she know how to fly and how can she sustain it enough to go into fucking space?
Sometimes I swear people in these threads have only watched dragon ball as the only anime in their lifes when they were kids and dont remember shit.

>>143532014
>Goku discovered in the Cell Saga that perfecting your SS form also improved your base.
He never said such a thing, he said he was making both him and gohan stay in SSJ to get used to its power and the strain on the body.

>>143518036
Even if they did, he would still have the virus when he came back.

>>143534873
I own the manga, please do write your point, I don't speak smuganimegirl.

>>143534894
And? They both got a massive boost to their overall power as a result, much greater than what Trunks or Vegeta managed in even twice the time. So clearly it did more than just "reduce strain".

>>143534801
They trained the Super Saiyan form because of the uneasy feeling they get along with change in emotions too. So that it would feel natural.

>>143534932
>And? They both got a massive boost to their overall power as a result, much greater than what Trunks or Vegeta managed in even twice the time. So clearly it did more than just "reduce strain".
Did you miss the
> stay in SSJ to get used to its power
by chance?

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>>143534940
And super just not only forgot that, but also wrote the whole SSBKaioken bullshit to be impossible as a SS because "change in emotions and power drain"

Lol.

>>143535001
>Did you miss the
That's irrelevant though. SS is a multiplicative boost. Getting used to the boost alone doesn't make you stronger. So staying as a SS had the side effect of either naturally strengthening their base, or allowing them to train FAR more efficiently than they could have managed in base form (see, trunks, vegeta, taking 2 years and not reaching Goku's level).

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>>143535002
>And super just not only forgot that, but also wrote the whole SSBKaioken bullshit to be impossible as a SS because "change in emotions and power drain"
I'm pretty sure Super was implying more on the fact that SSJ's power plus kaioken would fuckin break your body apart, not anything to do with emotions or power drain.

>>143535064

Did they imply that by stating that the emotions and drain were what prevented goku from trying it? That's some advanced dialogue, too deep 4 me.

>>143535033
Trunks and vegeta didnt reach goku's level because they reached their limit, thats been heavily implied.
>So staying as a SS had the side effect of either naturally strengthening their base, or allowing them to train FAR more efficiently than they could have managed in base form
this was never adressed, the reason is because they wanted to reduce the power drain and to get used to its power on the body. And Gohan wasnt even noticeably stronger than Vegeta or Trunks, Goku was simply stronger because he is goku.

>>143535088
>Did they imply that by stating that the emotions and drain were what prevented goku from trying it?
They never did, only mentioned how the strain would fuck your body up like kaioken always does, its just that doing it with another boost like SSJ is suicide.

>>143535099
>Trunks and vegeta didnt reach goku's level because they reached their limit, thats been heavily implied.
That's silly for a number of reasons, among them being that Vegeta is a prince and should have higher limits, and Trunks being a halfbreed as well. Goku just figured out a way to train better, and it involved staying in SS form the entire time.

>this was never adressed
But it can be deduced due to the simple fact that their training was vastly more efficient than their competition's.

>And Gohan wasnt even noticeably stronger than Vegeta or Trunks
You what now? He went from the weakest of the 4 by far, to the strongest of the 4 by a good amount, and I mean BEFORE going SS2.

>>143531483
Since we got Jaco in Resurrection F I expect Arale to show in the next movie.

>>143535129
>its just that doing it with another boost like SSJ is suicide.
Anon, they said it was suicide BECAUSE the emotional turmoil and energy drain would make it impossible to maintain control of the 2 boosts together. That's why it's so laughable.

>>143535180
>That's silly for a number of reasons, among them being that Vegeta is a prince and should have higher limits, and Trunks being a halfbreed as well. Goku just figured out a way to train better, and it involved staying in SS form the entire time.
>But it can be deduced due to the simple fact that their training was vastly more efficient than their competition's.
Its been said in the plot, the plot is silly, deal with it, everything you've just said is nothing but your headcanon.

>You what now? He went from the weakest of the 4 by far, to the strongest of the 4 by a good amount, and I mean BEFORE going SS2.
There is not even a single thing that points to this, Goku even gave cell a better fight, and Gohan was also the only one who was not show achieving SSJ 1.5. I know goku told him it was a useless form, but my point still stands.

>>143535212
>Anon, they said it was suicide BECAUSE the emotional turmoil and energy drain would make it impossible to maintain control of the 2 boosts together.
Citation needed. I'm pretty sure it was the good old kaioken is going to break your body.

>>143535314
>Its been said in the plot
No it has not, and in fact the following arc destroys that idea.

>There is not even a single thing that points to this
Dude, did you read the fucking manga or watch the show? Jesus. Go read the part when Goku tests his power at Karin's place, or when Gohan's about to go in, it's explicitly fucking said Gohan was stronger than Goku. Gohan thought goku was holding back against cell.

And yes, SS1.5 was useless, their super saiyan form was vastly stronger.

>>143535314
Gohan had FPSS just like Goku, there's no reason to show him going backwards in progress

>>143518036
That's just not how Goku is. He'd try and stay hopeful and honestly, he'd rather go out like a man, rather than have someone just kill him to find a silly loophole.

The BIGGEST question - Why the #%^&* didn't he use his one day visit to earth, to come down to earth and help Trunks out or maybe even come down to save Future Gohan?

>>143535033
>That's irrelevant though. SS is a multiplicative boost.
Why would that be irrelevant? Getting used to a power boost and learning how to use it better is pretty damn relevant. Like not throwing power out like a dumbass. or becoming a mass of muscle because your body cant handle the next level :^)

>>143535326
Well we're both pretty sure, so either you or I have to go dig up the subs to see what was said since the manga literally skipped KaiokenBlue.

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>>143535365
>Go read the part when Goku tests his power at Karin's place, or when Gohan's about to go in, it's explicitly fucking said Gohan was stronger than Goku.
You realize he's doing that and kept talking about how gohan was the strongest because he meant how Gohan can achieve SSJ2 right?

>>143535444
No anon, it was true. You can judge by gohan's own reactions. Piccolo fucking asks him if it's true, and Gohan assents.

Go read dude, you're pretty lost. Even fucking Cell says what goku said was true, it's just that gohan wimped out and Cell moved straight to the psychological torture.

>>143535088

Its not emotions, SSJB is a calmer form then regular SSJ, meaning its less taxing on the body in and can be regulated better. Kaiokan can be used on it for that very reason.

Thought he manga decided to make it the opposite case and that SSJB is a very taxing on the body.

>>143535444

Goku fought all out with Cell, Gohan thought Goku was holding back because Goku was weaker then he was. After Gohan powered up, everyone saw that he was stronger then Goku, even Cell admitted this.

>>143535594
>Its not emotions, SSJB is a calmer form then regular SSJ, meaning its less taxing on the body in and can be regulated better.
Goku maintained SS for a period of around six months or so, an he was able to nap in the state.

Whereas SSB.... >>143535002

And it's not just the manga. Goku also started off in normal form in the anime, for the exact same reason.

>>143526397
T

>>143525034
yeah but it's too late now, dragon doesn't exist in the future since picollo is dead as well others Z fighters

>>143525472
I don't think it's implied that Trunks knows who King Kai is. So, whether or not he could ask King Kai (or had the means to) where Namek is remains to be seen.

>>143518036
Was it stated, why they couldn't heal him with the Dragonballs?

>>143518745
Shenron: it's beyond my power to do so.

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A dragon ball thread, good!

I've just bought Xenoverse as it's cheap on Steam, but I cannot decide between these two characters to start playing.

The guy is a saiyan.

>>143518036
The more important question is why didn't they wish for more panties?

>>143540719
There's most likely a Xenoverse general on /vg/ that can help you.
>>>/vg/

>>143541216
there wasn't this is why I looked for a dragon ball thread.

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>>143540719
go for the saiyan

>>143525623
realistically, it's because they forgot about Baba

How is it determined who the creator is capable of healing?
After all, even a lowly Frieza soldier can kill goku with a laser gun.

>>143540719
Saiyan.

Buus being a race makes zero sense. There was only 1 Buy and he was a magical being.

>>143538871

The virus killed him suddently. They didn't have the medicin.

>>143542136
That's no longer canon, right?
Or are the movies canon and those shit episodes aren't and were just there for filler?

>>143542167
A magical being that magically created a race.

>>143529667
>They could use the Namek Dragon Balls
They didn't know where new Namek is. By the time Goku was sick enough to even consider using them, he would've probably been in too much pain to be able to try and use instant transmission.

>>143542167
Boo found one of Hercules porn books one day, so he decided to split himself in half to create another majin (kind of like when he made Evil Boo) to create Booby. Then the two majins used a technique called the Love-Love Beam to create a baby majin. And then the majin race was created.

>>143542759
Toriyama is a genius

>>143529959
Would Babadi even have been able to collect enough energy to release Buu in Trunks time? Considering most warriors were dead.

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>>143542759
Is this real?

>>143543233
>Is this real?
yes

>>143543233
>http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Buu
Yes.

>>143542601
He could have told them from the other side.
They could have asked Uranai Baba

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>>143533647
Bulma was such a fucking slut.
I wonder how all the fanservice practically disappeared overnight somewhere after the Red Ribbon arc.

>>143542477
Nothing after the original Frieza/Namek saga is canon

>>143519033
Because Goku is a retarded manchild who loves fighting even if it means sparing genocidal maniacs.

>>143525678
Well what do you expect? The DBZ fanbase has the highest concentration of nostalgiatards and toonamifags, the two worst kind of anime fans combined into one.

>>143519081
Retarded fuck that brings politics into any situation for no reason detected

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>>143533647
>>143543568

>>143535391
>Im wrong and refuse to admit it

Okay

>>143535314

You are one dumb piece of shit holy what the fuck.

>>143531665
His power to revive is complicated and takes forever.

>>143529521
It's explained in the actual plot, come on, Anon.
After he figured out that changing the past wouldn't change his future, but instead make a separate one, he decided to just find a way to defeat the Androids so he could do so in his time.

>>143526345
It's very possible that Toriyama thinks that being atacked by a virus is inherently different that being atacked that by a multicelular organism.

dumb dbz posters i swear...

>>143535314
Nothing but everyone out right stating that Gohan was the strongest among them. You know, like they did.
After Goku's fight with Cell, Gohan thought he was holding back because he always assumed Goku would be stronger and was comparing them.
Goku straight up said he was giving his all and that Gohan was stronger than him, something everyone agreed on once he showed off his power. Gohan got his shit wrecked because he wasn't as "experienced" as Goku, which is the only case of something like this happening in Z, it really fucking stands out. Regardless, the "experience" stops mattering the second he goes SSJ2.

>>143518036
It's a plothole to get the story going. Goku is capable of instant transmission and going to new Namek which has a much more powerful dragon. But if he did that, the Androids wouldn't have wiped out Future Trunks timeline.

There's no point in trying to discuss or defend it. It's not the first plot hole and it won't be the last.

>>143526801
> Dragon Ball has no major plot holes.

Okay you don't think that might be the slightest bit untrue?

>>143528925
Shenron is proably the best Dragon Ball character

>>143547268
It's definitely a plot hole, yeah, but that example you said doesn't make sense since Goku would be dead and we saw how much the virus fucked with him, he was exhausted from just flying.
By the time they figured out what was happening, Goku probably couldn't even get out of bed.

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>>143531151
Post your favorite BLACKED character

>>143518177
this and also who would want to kill goku

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> Goku starts winning against Black

> Get a pebble thrown at him when he's not looking

> Loses

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>>143535002
I liked how Super finally explained WHY Goku couldn't use Kaioken, while SS.

Also I like how SSB Kaioken is possible because of SSB's god ki's "calm" nature.

Much better than Toyble's version in the manga, where Goku goes SSG without the ritual which made no sense. Goku was supposed to "absorb" SSG and remember how god-ki felt like, which he used as a stepping stone for SSB.

Sure Toriyama reviews the manga chapters, but only after right before it's release (meaning Toyble's version of things were already drawn)

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>>143531105

>>143549297
It's like he suddenly tried to introduce "balance" this late in the series with that scene

>toriyama: "s-see, just because you have a p-powerlevel of 100 quintillion and can d-destroy universes with your punches, doesn't mean you can't be owned by a complete w-weakling haha."

>>143525318
Why wouldn't bulma know the way? She still had the ship with the travel logs

>>143549903
This was the new namek, completely different planet.

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>>143549773
> this late in the series with that scene
That was during the Android/Cell saga.

Not sure if that's considered "late" in the series

I wonder if they're just going to teach Future Trunks how to become a Blueper Cyan so he can deal with his own problems and not keep coming back to the past to ask for help.

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>>143549773
>>143551060
And this happened during Freeza.

The concept of lowering defenses (even for Planet-busters) is nothing new.

>>143550294
A completely different planet placed in the exact same position as the old planet?

Shit, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure building a spaceship and gathering rocket fuel is much easier than building a time machine and trying to create time machine fuel.

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>>143551155
Can Trunks endure Whis' training to become SSB?

His training was basically suicide missions, even for Goku/Vegeta...

>>143551060
should've been more specific, I wasn't refering to the scene in that pic
I meant the one where goku almost died when sorbet shot him
>>143551219
well vegeta wanted to get badly injured in that scene, and I assume krillin is a little more powerful than a blaster, and he shot him from point blank range

>>143548930
Vegeta. And Piccolos already done it once.

>>143551314
I'm sure losing all of his family & friends was much harder on him. Training with Whis is probably a walk in the park by comparison.

Also, he's gonna need something to do while they're making more fuel for his time machine.
Oh shit, it's the shiny blue liquid that present-day Bulma was working on when Monaka delivered her sweets and unknowingly kidnapped Trunks & Goten, isn't it?

>>143551522
Piccolo's a pretty nice guy.

>grew up hating Goku and wanting to kill him
>finally gets to kill him
>wasn't happy about it because it was too easy for him & unfair to Goku
>takes care of his son while he's gone
>he thought he was raising Gohan to be his underling to take over the world
>nope, he was getting a taste of what it was like to be a parent
>sacrifices himself to save Gohan from Nappa
>now helps Goku in any way that he can
>even babysits his granddaughter
There needs to be more evil-guy-turns-nice stories. It's actually pretty heartwarming.

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>>143551501
Another example is when a normal blast from Cell crippled SS2 Gohan, even though SS2 was completely toying and wrecking Cell.

Even if you're power level is 100 quintillion like you said, you're still susceptible to damage if you're defenses aren't up. Whether it's a ray gun, a sucker punch, a pebble thrown at you while you're sleeping, etc

Unless your body is literally made out of armor.

Anyone else thinking that when Beerus wished for the Universe 6 earth to be back, that's where black came from? And he somehow got involved with the time travel or something? Idk, just seems weird nothing came off that super dragon ball wish.

>>143551995
>Unless your body is literally made out of armor.
Imagine if Cabba and Auta Magetta had a baby.

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>>143551643
> Trunks has nothing to live for anymore

Yea I think he'l do fine in any type of suicidal training. He doesn't care if he dies or not at this point.

>>143551836
Piccolo has it best because he's Toriyama's husbando

writers shouldn't pick favorites. they should also hate their lives

>>143552028
To me it seems weird that they wasted a super-wish on the restoration of a single planet.

I'm sure even the small-time dragons like Shenron and Porunga can do that. Hell, they've probably already done that a few times.

>>143552070
It would also be interesting to find out if partial Saiyans can achieve God status.

I bet Gohan would be down. The ass-whooping he got from Frieza was a wake-up call, and since then he got serious about training.

dbz posters stop being dumb...

How many DB movies were there?

I remember the Cooler one, Android 16, the Broly one with Goten and Trunks, RoF, BoG, Bio Broly, that one with the elf and Bulma/Trunks

>>143552251
There's thing thing called google where you can look up things.

>>143525640
>20 years ago
>cheap episode
>still looks better than high budget Super episodes
Jesus fucking Christ they're not even trying anymore

>>143527180
It's the pants. Everyone looks better with high waist jeans. I wish they were still in style.

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>>143552251
Originally DBZ had 13 movies and 2 Specials.

Now DBZ has 15 movies (though the two recent ones are technically DBS), and one new Special (also technically DBS?)

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>>143552503
DBZ's animation was actually very inconsistent.

Nostalgia prevents you from remembering the bad looking episodes

>>143552503
>high budget

Just because they're newer doesn't mean they have a bigger budget. That's part of the problem.

>>143551314
>His training was basically suicide missions, even for Goku/Vegeta...
This. Trunks has seen some shit.

>>143552661
When did I say anything about DBZ having consistent animation? I'm fully aware of the terribleness, but I'm also aware of the greatness. You were able to cringe through the cheap episodes until they got to the higher budget ones because that shit was golden. Now, Super has pretty consistent animation. Consistently shitty. Even the higher budget episodes are still shitty. It's all shit. This has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with quality.

>>143552662
I don't think you got what I meant.

nobody can kill goku

>>143518036
Goku was just waiting for the chance to die so he could compete in the afterlife. Notice how after he died vs Cell he did not look in on Chichi or Gohan even once? Also notice how Future timeline Goku didn't care enough to tell Gohan or Trunks about New Namek or the Time chamber?

He literally doesn't give a shit.

>>143552864
>I don't think you got what I meant.

You're probably right. Lay it out for me then.

>>143553017
>Never drops in to see Grandpa Gohan
>Never went to find out who his father was
>Never offered to help Yemma keeping the rowdy souls in check
>Never looked down at his family and friends to see how they were
>The only day he picks to be on Earth is the day he'll spend most of fighting and not being with his friends and family
Goku is such a scumbag it's not even funny.

>>143553081
I mean episodes with higher budgets than other episodes get the nicer animation.

>>143553122
Exactly. He is probably one of the greatest villains of all time in that he convinced most people he was a hero.

>>143553017
>Goku was just waiting for the chance to die so he could compete in the afterlife.

Goku didn't even KNOW there was a tournament in the afterlife to compete in until Kaio told him, and that was only AFTER Cell was done for good.

>>143553185
You can bet Kaio was whispering sweet nothing in his ear as he faded away.

>>143553184
Just like God.

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>>143553122
>>143553184
So many dumb asses who need to reread the series.
Every fucking thread.

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How could Cell remember Trunks killing Frieza? I thought that in his timeline Goku killed Frieza and his father and Future Trunks never appeared. Are there more than 4 timelines?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkp6Te1adrg

>>143553315
Yet another brainwashed savage.

>>143553315
Yeah, and Hillary says she's a good person. Doesn't mean it's true. Anyone can say anything they want. What matters is what you do, and Goku failed to do.

>>143553162
A standard Toei anime TV series has an allotted "budget" of 3,500 drawings per episode. That has been their standard for years, and it remains to this day.
As far as I know, if an episode manages to get produced under or within that budget, the remainder of the allotment does not get transferred to other episodes.
In this case, it has more to do with (a) the talent of the people working on the project, and (b) how much time they have to work with.
If they\'re pressed for time, checking (quality control) gets sacrificed in order to meet airdate deadlines.
Also, a lot of the key animators and directors that worked on DBZ and other Toei shows 20 years ago are gone now for various reasons (moved on to other companies, retired, passed away, etc.).

>>143553375
When Cell first awoke in one of the Future Trunks' timelines, Trunks had already traveled back in time and killed Freeza and King Cold (and the Androids, but Cell hadn't figured that out yet). Since that's the timeline he originally belongs to, that's how he remembers things going down.

>>143553513
You're retarded.

>>143553595
Thanks for your input.

>>143551219
>>143551501
Also the ring was something frieza had made while in his golden form pouring his power into it

>>143552661
>>143552864
Super should at the very least be on par with Kai, there's no reason for it to be as bad as it is

>>143553315
Wait. Yaijarobe can sense ki?

>>143553570
But if there was Future Trunks in Cell timeline that went back in time and killed Frieza and Androids then why future still looked post-apocaliptic in Cell memories and Goku died from heart virus? That doesn't make sense.

>>143553763
Kai just traced over pre-existing animation; all the hard work was already done years earlier.
Super is being animated from scratch, with only a few directors and key animators who were as good as the old guard, on a ridiculously tight production schedule that doesn't allow much time for retakes.

>>143553882
Because when Cell first woke up, not much time had passed since Trunks had returned from the past. The remainder of humanity hadn't gotten around to fixing up the world yet, or were doing so very slowly.

>>143553816
>a huge demonic aura
He isn't necessarily talking about ki, he could just be talking about how evil something looks.

I see this line, and ones very similar to it in other works of fiction.

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>>143553122
> impregnates Chi-chi
> wants to stay dead afterwards

>>143553882
>and Goku died from heart virus

Trunks' messing around with time wouldn't have changed that. It would only have created another timeline where Goku survived thanks to the heart medicine he brought, which is what happened.

>>143553763
> Kai got previous footage from an era where Toei spent more drawing per episode, and remastered it.

I agree but this is neo-Toei we're talking about.

>>143552661
Shitty celluoids still look better than shitty digital drawings.

>>143521045
And the buu saga

>>143529959

The problem with BUU in the main timeline was the presence of two dicks: Goku and Vegeta.

>>143553375
I just realized

>>143553570
My answer here was a mistake.
Before Cell traveled back in time, Trunks had already come back from the past, and he remembers that it was Goku that killed Freeza and King Cold.
When Cell traveled back into the past further than Trunks, that changed the timeline enough so that Trunks ended up being the one to kill Freeza.
So, as far as Cell should know, he should be remembering that Goku killed Freeza.

>>143529959
Goku convinced everyone to go along with Kaioshin's stupid as fuck plan. What a fucking moron.

>>143545625
>I am also not willing to provide evidence but I will claim victory regardless

Okay.

>>143546821
It's very possible Toriyama is an idiot, but that doesn't change 2 things. 1, that it's wrong, and 2, that it was never outright stated that was the reason goku wasn't revived nor was it ever implied that natural death covers disease (especially when stress is exempt).

>>143549555
>I liked how Super finally explained WHY Goku couldn't use Kaioken, while SS.
>Also I like how SSB Kaioken is possible because of SSB's god ki's "calm" nature.

Why? The explanation basically completely falls apart because of the Cell Saga, especially since SSB's "calm nature" is beat in both calmness and staying power by Goku's Cell Saga perfected Super Saiyan state.

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>>143555695
SSB Kaioken was also a risky trump card. He didn't know how it was going to affect his body (and it affected it pretty bad regardless...the god ki probably just saved it from being fatal).

Also Goku barely went all-in against Cell. He gave up pretty early, so he can give Gohan the spotlight.

After that, Goku had SS2-SS3, so there's no point in FP SS1 Kaioken

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Is Black strong enough to be a threat against two Saiyan gods?

>>143556169
Probably not at the start, but Goku will somehow fuck it all up and Black will be on par.

>>143556129
>SSB Kaioken was also a risky trump card. He didn't know how it was going to affect his body (and it affected it pretty bad regardless...the god ki probably just saved it from being fatal).
>Also Goku barely went all-in against Cell. He gave up pretty early, so he can give Gohan the spotlight.
That has literally nothing to do with anything. The explanation they gave is super is fucking retarded because SS1 goku already had that covered and better, and they then went and said that SSB has big ki drain, making it by their own standards bad for use with Kaioken.

>After that, Goku had SS2-SS3, so there's no point in FP SS1 Kaioken
There's no point in Kaioken since super saiyan was introduced, period other than the fact it looked badass. Adding an extra multiplicative boost at this stage is a horrible idea and made everyone not goku irrelevant again (so, just vegeta) and fucked the power levels even more.

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>>143556169
doubt it. regardless.Goku will probably let him get away and get stronger

>>143556266
Why go SS1+ Kaioken and risk severely fucking up his body, when he could go SS2?

>>143556356
>Why go SS1+ Kaioken and risk severely fucking up his body
Because he didn't know SS2 existed at the time.

I want to fuck an anon's boipussy.

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>>143556217
>>143556355

Unless Black has SSB.

If he's related to the green kai somehow, he could have god ki.

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>>143556389
Ok true. I guess Goku wasn't willing to risk it in the Cell Saga, but was willing to risk it in the U6 Tourney...

Not a major plothole, considering there was always a risk behind it.

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Could they have just wished for the cure?

>>143556818
Actually the blue thing is explained. He couldn't use Kaioken with super saiyain because the Ki's were both more powerful/fierce/hard to control.

In Japanese culture there's Blue Onis and Red Onis. This was actually used in Goku and Vegeta's first fight.

Red is brash, brutish, and powerful (Goku)

Blue is more concentrated, cold, and calm (Vegeta)

Goku said he could use it with blue because it was the more calm and controlled ki.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOniBlueOni

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>>143556707
maybe.
I wonder if black will just stay in base form for the next episode or show any transformation

>>143556818
Thing is anon, that has nothing to do with the "problem". It's not about risk, it's just that the show says "well we can use SSB with Kaioken because it's more calm than the super saiyan and it has less energy drain!", like the writers forgot Goku essentially eliminated those 2 weaknesses during the cell saga. And they also forgot that Goku said SSB had heavy energy drain when he started the Hit fight.

I don't think Super's writers even watch DBS, let alone DBZ.

>>143556818

Kaioken the dangerous, painful, fiery aura that increases the power of the user should be combined with:

Original Super Saiyan

>Ignited by anger
>Violent burst of golden energy that becomes even more violent the more power/levels are used
>Even elder Kaioshin says that the transformation puts to much stress on the body of the user

Super Saiyan Blue

>Ignited by the memory of the Super Saiyan God Ki
>Calm blue flame aura
>Better Ki control

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>>143553122
He would do all of those things

Characters are only limited by the sanity of their authors

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>>143557096
> Blue is more concentrated, cold, and calm

> SSB is associated with the calm god ki

Suddenly SSB's blue color makes much more sense now

>>143557571
It doesn't, he's talking out of his ass. SSG was red and completely calm.

>>143557571
Yee. Manga/Anime actually uses this red vs. blue a lot.

Toriko does a pretty good job of it.

>>143557571
People underestimate super. The Kaioken with Blue was probably the least ass-pull of the series.

>>143557950
>The Kaioken with Blue was probably the least ass-pull of the series.

Him suddenly being able to combine Kaioken was as bullshit as the explanation they gave for it and it blatantly showed Super writers didn't watch or read dragon ball.

>>143557849
Go rewatch the Hit vs. Goku fight. He actually says his blue ki is more calm and collected.

>>143529521
Trunks said he knows that traveling wouldn't change his past, but he wanted to at least make one timeline to be in peace or something like that.

>>143558024
What part of Dragonball says anything about Kaioken? That was Z.

And even so where does DragonballZ say anything about SSB? You're a faggot.

>>143558024
So what's wrong with it?

>>143557228
And yet it was precisely during DBZ that old kaioshin advised Goku to not fuse while being transformed or he will stay like that forever and that would shorten his lifespan over how much of a burden is to his body.

>>143558128

Than the NORMAL super saiyan, you doofus. And earlier in that same fight he also said SSB had huge Ki drain, which fucks itself even more.

>>143558178
Dragon Ball includes Z you fucking retard, and the Cell Saga said enough things that make Super's explanation for the Kaioken look retarded.

>>143558202
See: >>143557228 >>143556266 >>143555695

>>143551995
>Another example is when a normal blast from Cell crippled SS2 Gohan, even though SS2 was completely toying and wrecking Cell.

Isn't is canon now that Cell got a huge power up from "dying" like most saiyans would? He came back with all that SS2 lightning aura and shit.

>>143558259
Yes, so?

>>143558319
It is.

>>143556169
Goku and Vegeta would never fight together. I think Whis even mentions this while training them in RoF. If they teamed up they could have made pretty short work of Frieza, even in his Golden form. But because of their Saiyan retard genes, they are too proud and stubborn.

I am Japanese .
I know this comic well.
Are there any questions?

>>143553315
FOR YOU

>>143558345

You are saying that Super writers contradict the story even though old kaishin contradicted the story before Super even existed.

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>>143558561
The fuck are you on about? How is what the old Kai said in DB contradicting?

Here's something that Super did fuck up about what the old kai said though.

>>143554338
Before Super there's 4 timelines and 2 of which were Goku survived because of the medicine. One of those deviates during the Cell Games were trunks never made his return trip and the Z fighters beat Cell without him since he was killed by lizard Cell in his return trip to the future future. Future Trunks in the show's timeline notices a copy of his time machine and has the heads up to kill lizard Cell on his return trip and makes another trip back for the Cell games.

>>143556169
>>143556217
>>143556355
Yes, people without god ki are now stronger.
>Hit>Super Cyan + Kaioken Goku>Super Cyan Goku>Super Cyan Vegeta>Golden Frieza>SSJ3 Goku>SSJ2 Trunks>SSJ Vegeta>Robot Man>Base Goku>Final Form Frieza>Base Vegeta=Cabba>Blue Frieza>First Form Frieza>SSJ3 Gotenks>SSJ Gohan=SSJ Trunks>SSJ Gotenks>Ginyu!Tagoma>Tagoma=Mystic Gohan>Base Gohan>Piccolo.

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>>143525134
In shin budokai 2/another road Trunks takes Goku and the others to namek to restore Earth's dragonballs

>>143558664

What is so hard to understand?

What you say: The SS transformation is not stressful/fiery/harmful anymore Super is telling lies

What Kaioshin Says : The transformation is bad for your health

>>143525134
you do realize that trunks and bulma is as stupid as the author right, now why would the author go write a solution that easy? he obviously wrote them into a corner they cant get out of.
and how would they do that when black is out and about and now bulma is dead?
use your head

>>143558990
No, he says FUSING FOREVER WHILE TRANSFORMED is bad for your health. Pretty big difference there, buddy.

>>143559078
>you do realize that trunks and bulma is as stupid as the author right
You say that like I've never called toriyama fucking stupid.

>>143559078
>and how would they do that when black is out and about and now bulma is dead?
Well OBVIOUSLY you're not supposed to wait until an unbeatable threat arrives before you try to revive everyone.

>>143558664
>not as strong
Pretty sure that's a translation error on Viz's part. Can someone read the raws?

>>143557849
Besides Goku saying his blue was calm against Hit, SSG is temporary...if anything it's more of a technique than a transformation.

Does it even last as long as fusion?

>>143559404
No, it's a transformation with heavy ki drain because Super can't stick to their own story.

>>143559083

And why is bad? Because the transformation is in fact a burden to the body and that was not invented by Super like YOU are saying.

See the issue that I am a addressing is not the transformation but the fact that YOU say that Super invented the fact that SS puts a burden on the body of Goku but this was in fact stated many years ago.

>>143558319
And?

Gohan got his ki cut in half, and still beat Cell with ONE arm.

Normal SS2 would've been plenty for Cell. Even post-zenkai Cell.

>>143558664
Old Kai's centuries year old. Young Beerus must've still been Whis' student at the time, and possibly not as strong as Kid Buu.

Unless it was a mistranslation on Viz's part, like another anon mentioned.

>>143559232

I thought that he is just salty at Beerus

>That guy is evil he as no place in the universe and he fear my power

It turns out he is part of the system and is not afraid of anyone besides Zeno

>Stupid cat.

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>>143525134
You're retarded they have been dead for over a year. Plus Goku died during the Cell games before Trunks went back to his time.

>>143558293
The calmer SSJ transformation mentioned in the Cell saga is just a statement of how they mastered the transformation enough to keep it from being exhausting to use, the way SSJ3 still is.

During Whis' training, however, Whis states that they still leak out a lot of energy when they use the transformation, ki that isn't going to any use. Once again, a low level of mastery means a high output of untapped energy, i.e., a lot of wind coming off of the user. SSJ3 still works as an example, especially in the latest episode where Goku's SSJ3 causes a wind storm in town. Their aim in Whis' training and the SSB form is an SSJ transformation that doesn't leak out energy. It's why SSB can't be sensed, and it explains why it never just blew stuff away like the other SSJ transformations did; SSB is just a totally controlled SSJ. Hell, we saw it juxtaposed to the Golden Frieza transformation, where SSB had a light show but it didn't wreck shit like Frieza did.

>>143559461
What are u even talking about?

I said SSG not SSB

>>143559160
im just letting you know how useless it is debating on character progression with "forgotten" characters.
trunks had prevented the buu saga from happening because of toriyama somehow remembering it.
maybe it will come to that solution finding new namek, but his "at-will" character progress will only happen when its convinent to the plot.
i agree that he is a hack though

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Pic is why time travel is illegal.

Beerus should've killed Bulma right then and there.

Omni King is gonna destroy Beerus if he finds out he's not doing his job...he's already on hot water as it is, since Whis already reported to Omni King that Beerus is slacking.

>>143559540
Gohan was holding back because he was afraid of destroying the planet.

>>143559465
>And why is bad? Because the transformation is in fact a burden to the body
FUSED transformation. Fusing while transformed. THAT's what puts a strain on the body. Goku is not fused in Super, but SSB puts a strain on the body, see: >>143535002. A pretty big one.

Whereas CANONICALLY, Goku eliminated, or at least reduced the strain on the body of the normal super saiyan SO MUCH he could keep it on indefinitely and not tire out.

Therefore, by SUPER'S own standards, the normal Super Saiyan is a much better state to use with Kaioken, because it's AS CALM as SSB, and it has LESS STRAIN ON THE BODY, so much less it's negligible.

>>143559728
>The calmer SSJ transformation mentioned in the Cell saga is just a statement of how they mastered the transformation enough to keep it from being exhausting to use
Horseshit, they explicitly say they eliminated the emotional turmoil. Goku could nap while on SS. If it got any calmer, he'd be dead.

>Hell, we saw it juxtaposed to the Golden Frieza transformation, where SSB had a light show but it didn't wreck shit like Frieza did.
Maybe, but Goku himself says it drains the fuck out of him, against Hit.

>>143559889
>im just letting you know how useless it is debating on character progression with "forgotten" characters.
It's more like you're agreeing it's a dumb mistake but arguing for the sake of arguing.

>>143529840
At least he is strong enough to beat the androids, cell, and demons now.

>>143531388
He ran out of time I think because he blew threw all his energy too fast in SSJ3.

>>143558880
Man, I fucking loved those "what if" scenario they used to make.

>Fateful Brothers

;_;

>>143549773
At least they fixed it a little in the anime by having him power down first

>>143527181
They talk about new namek at the beginning of rof

>>143535064
I just thought they weren't compatible. You literally could only use one or the other.

>>143553816
At one point in the series Yajirobe was the strongest human alive.

>>143560784
bro, Mr.Satan will forever and always be the strongest human

>>143560175

>Fused transformation is different than normal transformation

You are contradicting Kaioshin since clearly said that it was bad because he can't go back to normal once transformed.

He never said anything about the fused transformation being differently than the normal besides being permanent.

It looks to me that you just want to complain about super wich is understandable but you are too stubborn to admit that you are wrong about something.

>>143543107
He probably did before he showed up. Remember in the current timeline they collected it all on earth really quick because of all the strong people on earth and goku vs vegeta fight. He probably traveled around the galaxy collecting energy before heading to earth. That's why he showed up way later in trunks timeline.

>>143556169
He would probably just absorb the KI from Goku and BAM!

>>143527667

>Goku
>Greatest master in the universe

Piccalo trumps him there

>>143535635
>After Gohan powered up, everyone saw that he was stronger then Goku, even Cell admitted this.

He wasn't stronger in his SS1 state though

>>143560356
the mistake is that you thought that it would be easy to resolve a problem that the hack had forgotten about. it is a dumb mistake you made.

>>143561335
Wrong.

>>143561382
Yes, he was stronger in his SSJ form. Goku was a FPSSJ, but Gohan was to the point of reaching SSJ2, for some reason Goku realized Gohan was the one who could defeat Cell.

How come Shenron revived Frieza when he said he couldn't revive anyone after a year has passed?

>>143527667
that dance looks familiar for some reason

>>143561543
That rule applies to mass revival

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>>143560667
>Fateful Brothers
never ever