Fate holds many questions, but one has interested me for a long

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>>143183673
>Does Rin break under the Wormpit onslaught?

Yes

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>>143183673

After HF we get this.

>>143183673
So Rin is the one who rape Shinji?

That is kinda Shinji dream.

So wait, which routes become which? Is UBW still Rin getting with Shirou, for instance, or does the whole thing switch?

>>143187427

I'd presume UBW has Tohsaka Sakura getting with Shirou, while HF would have Matou Rin.

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>>143187251

FH/A is basically his happy ever after. Freedom from the Matou name, while still being dominated and slapped around silly.

>>143187488
Then both routes will get drastical improve.

Would Nasu be forced to write a femdom scene if Matou Rin was a thing?

>>143188277
Definitely.

>>143188277

Who would she Dom?

>>143189445
Shirou

Seiba

Sakura

Secret Luvia scene

>>143189445

Zouken.

>>143189555

Zouken saw Sakura as a submissive servant. What would Matou Rin be to him? He could never dom her as hard.

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the Red Devil would be using her turboenhanced carnal nature to control most of the school through orgasms. Only Shirou and Issei would be free of her wicked grasp.

Also Shinij got raped so often that he got PTSD and is scared of women.

>>143183673
Wait, so do the worms turn her hair purple? Or does she just dye her hair to look more like a Matou?

>>143189694

Dark Rin does funny things to my duck.

>>143189610
>>143189555
>>143189537
>>143189445
You fags realize that personalty is something that develops throughout life, right?

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>>143189716

The Worms. Sakura had Black hair and Blue Eyes before she was Wormed, the same thing would happen to Rin.

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>>143189731

>>143189731

So how different would Matou Rin's personality be then?

>>143190506
I don't know about Matou Rin, but personality of Tohsaka Sakura is pretty clear, as was already stated, that Sakura without Matou's influence would have similar personality as Luvia.

>>143191036

I can't see Tohsaka Sakura being too similar to Luvia. Growing up alone, and under Kotomine's thumb would doubtless leave some effect.

ie; yes Sakura was said to be special for not breaking and going insane under that treatment. Although the best she could obtain is pretending to be normal on the outside, when normally someone would have been far more fucked up from it. The fact that any part of her wasn't fucked up, and she was able to be normal on a day by day basis was supposed to show how unearthly her will-power was. Even Zouken who tortures her daily could not break her after ten years no matter what he did, her armor she developed was too perfect, but her aptitude was defensive only. Her will was so unearthly that even all evils in the world could not break her mind in HF, as her personality survived and overcame it slightly at the end when that should be impossible.

If Rin went through it, she wouldn't have the same personality aptitude to withstand it and something else would have warped inside of her because of it. However we don't know which direct she would have gone with it if she did snap.

Rin is offensive if nature rather than defensive, if forced into this situation she would have broken far more quickly in some way. However that's not exactly a negative thing, it just makes her normal honestly. Sakura is a freak because of how she didn't break.

Rin despite what you were lead to think at first in the game, something you were supposed to realize later on was that she was the most normal in the game.

>>143187490
>Shinji being awesome

Why is that a Bad End?

>Rin "Pleases Old Men For Money" Tohsaka undergoing Matou training
By the time she entered high school, she'd have the entire Committee of 300 as her regular clients.

>>143192219

Surely the Penis Worms inside her would preclude any need for that. No old man's dick can ever match a Matou Dickworm.

>>143192254
No amount of sexual pleasure could compare to the money and global influence Matou Rin would acquire by selling her body.

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>>143183673
All routes would drastically change since Matou Rin wouldn't be scared of the grail war and actually use Rider.

>Medusa vs Lancer
Who wins?

>>143192521

I'm pretty sure unlike Sakura, being raped by Worms for years and years would turn Rin off of sex.

>>143192580
But she'd become a sexual genius. It would be a waste for her not to use her talents.

>>143185472
Only sluts can survive the wormpit

Rin looks better as a wormslut than wormslut.

>>143194702

She really does.

>>143194702
>Rin looks better than wormslut. Period.

FTFY

>>143194819
>>143194888
Aye

>>143194702

And Sakura just looks better with the Blue Eyes and Black Hair.

Truly, reversing them makes them both look better.

>>143183673

Poor Rin would suffer greatly. She doesn't have Sakura's immense willpower, which kept her from breaking. Rin would break, and early. She could turn coldly hostile, or burn with anger and resentment, but either way Matou Rin would be damaged. Sakura would grow up under Kirei, and she wouldn't have Rin;s way of ignoring or shutting him out, so Tohsaka Sakura would probably come to trust Kotomine far more as well.

Regardles, the scenarios are just too good to ignore. If I had any ability, I'd recolour the F/SN Sprites and do a UBW and HF with Matou Rin/Tohsaka Sakura. Shame there's no fanfics covering the idea.

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>>143195399

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>>143192219
Rude post.

>>143194288
Rin is a whore, so maybe she could survive the wormpit if someone was paying her.

>>143197572

Who would pay for wormed goods though?

>>143198270
Luvia would probably be willing to pay Rin to jump in the wormpit.

>>143200130
Would that be NTR?

>>143200130

Would Luvia want Matou Rin though? I don't think there would ever be an end where a Matou would end up at the Clocktower. They're too heretical.

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>>143197440
Truth is always painful.

>>143197440
How is it rude to suggest that Rin will become such an educated prostitute that she'll be able to use her influence to reshape the future of humanity?

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>>143201002
Rin's not lewd.

Your post is rude.

>>143201128
You're right. She's not lewd, but she'll do lewd things for a price.

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>>143201316
Rin is a top quality whore made to serve the aristocracy.

>>143201128

Leave her in the Dickworm Pool for 10 years and it's not going to end up well. Sakura wasn't born lewd, but look what those Worms did to her. Rin wouldn't escape the same fate if their roles were reversed.

>>143201431

Is the best outcome for Sakura for her to be adopted by the Edelfelts? She'd get Luvia as a big sister. And if the way Luvia treated Miyu in Prisma is anything to go by, Luvia makes a great big sister.

>>143183673
I really wonder who would they summon as Servants.

The whole point of Sakura summoning Rider is that they are both 'reluctant monsters'. If we instead do assume that Rin accepts her monstrous nature as a coping mechanism, instead of rejecting it, then who would she summon?

And would Sakura Tohsaka summon Archer for the sole fact that she has the family jewel?

>>143202738

What would Archer be like with Sakura as a master? Granted Tohsaka Sakura would be very different from Matou Sakura, but she would certainly not be like Tohsaka Rin either. And would Archer notice that here Sakura isn't Wormed and would he care if Rin was Wormed?

>>143202791
He would probably notice, I think.
Although what matters in the big picture is how the 4th war unfolded, what happened to the grail, to the Einzberns, to Shirou, etc etc.

>>143202845

Kariya would try to save Rin if she were in Sakura's place. He'd fail, of course. If Rin wasn't already broken beforehand, she'd probably break at the only nice person to her in the Matou house dying. Rin simply doesn't have Sakura's immense willpower, so she'd inevitbly crumble well before the 5th War. She's probably be either a hostile queen bee or an isolated outcast by the time of the 5th War. No idea how she'd engage with Shirou, might not even try, or swoop in and snatch him well before Sakura can get in there.
She'd probably be far more bitter towards Sakura for escaping, for not suffering the worms and for being the 'lucky' one. For her part sakura probably wouldn't have the willpower to resist Kirei and might well actually trust and rely on him more as a result and even believe what he says.

>>143202944
This is exactly why I believe Rin would become this icy cold queen bee, despite the anons saying she'd break.

She would break indeed, except that breaking here means accepting the monster inside that Sakura always tried to fight against. She would become bitter at the world as a reaction, while Sakura strived to be a good person to fight against the fact that she was made the embodiment of all the world's evil.

I actually don't believe Sakura would be super dependent on Kirei if she lived through the 4th war much like Rin did. She has an immense willpower, you said so yourself, so she'd probably be even more skeptical of him.

I can totally envision her bringing Archer along to kill Kirei on the first night, suspecting he was a Master all along.

Sort of echoing what everyone else has said but Rin would be absolutely broken, a lot of her willpower is an act and she always relies on the people around her. She'd have a poor match up against the worm pit.

Likewise Sakura would have a terrible match-up dealing with Kirei. I'm expecting Bazett level disaster once the war begins. A few characters describe Kirei as a mirror that brings out the worst in people and there's a lot worse in Sakura than Rin that he can work with, it's just a question of can he control it or will he end up killed like when he tried to pull that shit in HF.

>>143203054

I don't think Sakura would go that far, and given she'd be growing up with no family whatsoever and she's always seemed far more family oriented, if she doesn't go to the Clocktower for the 10 odd years between the forth and fifth wars, Kirei would basically be the only person in her life.

Shinji would just suffer horribly. Sakura pitied him, that's why she let him do what he did. Rin would never do that. She'd kick the shit out of him the moment he tried anything (probably thinming how easy eh has it compared to her), and if she needs Semen, she'd probably force Shinji into it if not just out-and-out raping him. Shinji might well stick much closer to Shirou as a result, with Shirou's friendship a lone ray of hope in the bleak existence he'd have.

It's really kind of depressing. Sakura was fortunate enough that she was almost custom-made to resist the Worms. Rin just doesn't have that kind of defense. Rin would suffer far worse than Sakura, and take it out on all those around her as a result. I can still see Shirou trying to save her, maybe even more motivated as Rin would be in far greater need of saving.

>>143203161
These threads really are a goldmine, I'd like to run a quest based on these premises one of these days.

>>143203429

I want to recolour the sprites and do a route. Reverse HF, where Shirou and Sakura must save Rin. Would people be so quick to back MoS ending if it was Matou Rin Shirou was abandoning his ideals for?

And I'd totally do your quest.

>>143192110
>Even Zouken who tortures her daily could not break her
It seems you haven't read/watched Fate/Zero:
"There were terrible cries for the first three days, but by the fourth day, she was silent." and "So, what will you do? The little girl is already broken, filled by the worms from head to toes."

>>143204346

Sakura didn't completely break until HF though. She managed to hold onto herself and deny Zouken a complete victory. Yes, she submitted to the Worms, but she didn't lose herself.

Rin by contrast would break badly, and her personality would change utterly, whereas Sakura's personality wasn't overwritten by what Zouken did.

>>143192110
>yes Sakura was said to be special for not breaking and going insane under that treatment
Secondary pls.
Read Zero, Sakura cried for three days straight and then ended up so broken she didn't give a shit about Kariya dying and thought him a fool for defying Ojii-sama.
It was Shirou the one who healed Sakura.

Rin is an Average One, so she already has the Water alignment. She doesn't need the horrible body modifications and experiments Sakura went through just to make her compatible with the Matou magic.
Rin only needs to get a Crest Worm like Kariya and she's ready to go.

>>143191291

Sakura isn't that impressionable, she was kind even though she basically raised herself under the experimentation of the Matous.

Kirei influenced Rin because Rin was indoctrinated by the teachings of her father and leaned on that, which is why she goes hard in maintaining the "always elegant" motto she learned from Tokiomi, giving her school idol persona. Under the Matous, she is pretty likely to just not give much if a fuck about life, her fire usually comes from having choice and the power to do things about her situation. If she was tortured by Zouken, having her power severely handicapped, with the axe of death over her at all times, it would likely just make her lethargic about magecraft.

Whereas I don't see Sakura particularly caring to do follow tradition as a Tohsaka. She was always the type to really only endeavor in things she absolutely wants to do herself. Kirei would actually have a hard time finding something to pick on her because Sakura would actually actively talk with Rin, despite her father's orders. People usually see her as mousy, but she is the type to reach out, and with no reason not to, they would hang out. It would have to be Rin rejecting her again that would stop her.

Both sisters have a strong will, but Sakura is more naturally malleable, more flexible to hardship if we analyze their personalities.

>>143204575

She might not, but surely Zouken would still throw her in the Wormpit for shits and giggles.

>>143204594
>If she was tortured by Zouken, having her power severely handicapped
Why would she have her powers handicapped?
Sakura was a special case because she was severely incompatible with Zouken's magic, Rin can learn it just fine.

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Shirou, if you become a bad boy, I will scold you!

>>143204575

This is wrong. The reason why Sakura is not compatible is not because she doesn't have the water element, it's because she was changed by force. Zouken didn't care about making her an heir, he treated her like he treated Shinji's mom, just she was strong enough not to die and end up scrap rotting flesh in the basement.

Rin noted herself that theoretically, she should be able to come up with ideas that would revolutionize the Matous and be better than other generations. But that was under her own terms, not Zouken's. Read when she entered the basement, she basically admitted her mind would likely snap because this wasn't the environment for an heir, it was the environment for turning someone into a vegetable to feed the worms.

>>143204775
>The reason why Sakura is not compatible is not because she doesn't have the water element, it's because she was changed by force

So why was she forcefully changed into obtaining water as her element?

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For my first attempt to edit the F/SN Sprites with Photoshop, it doesn't look 100% shit.

I just have 800 or so Rin and Sakura Sprites to go.

>>143204775
>she basically admitted her mind would likely snap
She never admitted that. Also:

The cold-hearted ways, the difficulty of the tasks, and the pain of the engraved Magic Circuit.
She's not comparing the severity as the successor.
If one is to talk about the burdened sufferings and the harshness, hers is incomparable.
She overcame more difficulties and hardships than anyone.
That is why she is a genius magus and an Average One, the user of the five elements, that the Magic Association is accepting as a scholarship student.

>>143204679

She would have her powers handicapped because she is constantly getting her mana sucked out by parasites and is being used as an experiment, not an heir.

You are thinking it was only because Sakura had Imaginary Element that she suffered like she did, and that isn't the case. It was because Zouken didn't care to raise her like a magus, he just did whatever he wanted. Why do you think Kariya walked out? Not just because of the deal with Zouken wanting to use Aoi for heinous shit, it was a certifiable dead end for being a magus, and Zouken expected all his family members to fall in line with his demands. Why do you think you never see Kariya and Byakuya's mother and father? They ain't that old, and Nips usually live long lives.

Hell, Sakura can still use her element, despite the fact Zouken's treatment should have ruined her as a magus. Zouken literally tossed her in and left her for twelve hours at four years old and said "if you live, that's great, if not, oh well".

>>143205047
great job.

I really like this thread.
Shame we'll never see an actual FSN Tohsaka sisters turnabout route.

>>143205206

She did, read the part right after that:

>Rin can create a spell that the successor of the Matou family has been unable to create even after ten years.

>But---this method of learning is madness.
If asked whether she could withstand being violated by these worms, she can only hesitate.

>The inheritance of the magic here is not a study, but a torture.
A magic that is taught not to the mind, but to the body.

>That is how the Makiris pass on their magic, and this is the preference of the old magus, Matou Zouken.
Therefore…
To be chosen as the successor of the Matou family means to be tortured forever

The other part was Rin rationalizing what she was seeing in front of her and trying to see things from the pride of a magus, when reality struck her that there was no pride for Sakura to have here.

Even when she says "if someone was to command me to make use of these worms, I probably could better than anyone else" she is talking from the perspective of "if someone asked Tohsaka Rin, with all her knowledge, to make something of this mess here, I probably could if I don't spend the days puking my guts out and go nuts". Which isn't "I can survive this from childhood". It's her pride talking.

See the fact she reflexively vomited right after.

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>>143205324

Thanks.

This one's a lot worse, but it does at least show what the look is roughly. I'll have to make a few changes on the next attempt.

>>143205503
I associate the twintails to the Tohsaka style, I think she'd look a lot better with long purple hair and maybe a delinquent kind of look.

>>143205546

Not many Sprites look like that though. She doesn't let her hair down at all in F/SN.

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>>143205047

Despite that one shade of purple on her bangs, it's bretty gud.

Have some loli Tohsakas.

>>143183673
>haha time to ride the Rin rape train
>rapes Ayako
>rapes Shinji
>rapes Rider
>rapes Zouken, sure why not
>rapes dick worms
>rapes Shirou
>rapes Seiba, of course
>rapes old fat menfor free

>>143205207
But why did he do that? What not just use her as a sex slave for him and shinji?

>>143205567

She does, but only in CGs (PJs) and that one sprite for HF True.

The ribbons are important for female magi for helping with mana lorewise.

So how many dick worms could fit in Sakura's pussy and ass?

>>143205727
All of them. She is so loose she could fit a bowling bowl up there.

>>143205674

So keeping them on her is fine. To show her colder personality you'd ditch all the smiling ones and get the ones which make her look nastier, more cruel.

>>143204473
>she didn't give a shit about Kariya dying and thought him a fool for defying Ojii-sama.
Secondary pls.

>>143192570
>All routes would drastically change since Matou Rin wouldn't be scared of the grail war and actually use Rider.

Wait, there are people who think that Sakura was just scared of battle/, and didn't see she understood Zouken was using her and fighting in her condition was suicide?

Like, what exactly would fighting in the war gain her but getting blood on her hands, feeling like shit as the worms go double time on her body with having to maintain a servant as well, and having to fight her Senpai? Literally no pros.

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Getting the Purple out of her hair is really hard work, but her eyes are easy.

I think she looks a lot better with the Black Hair and Blue Eyes.

A few dozen more of these, and maybe I'll start getting better at it.

>>143205440
>But---this method of learning is madness.
Figure of speech. And that isn't Rin speaking. It's third-person narrative mode describing how "crazy" something is.

>It's her pride talking
It isn't.

>Which isn't "I can survive this from childhood"
Yes, it is. "She overcame more difficulties and hardships than anyone." confirms that.

>vomited

>It's not because of disgust or chill.
>It is anger that causes her to shudder, repent, and vomit.

>>143189926
proving once again typememe has no creativity,and are milking jewish scum bags

>>143205971

You are ignoring the part where it is says, "if she were asked to be violated by these worms, she can only hesitate". So yeah, she is admitting being the heir to thus is shit.

Also, the third person narration is often used to emphasize what the character is feeling. This scene was to show the gap of what she feeling vs. the mask of a magus she wears.

But alright, I'll give you that the vomiting was out of anger, but that only serves my point further, in that she understood that Sakura didn't have much of a chance to work something from this. She was trying rationalize that there was at least some sense to what was in front of her.

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This would likely be a default expression for Matou Rin. Her 'I'll fuck up anyone who dares cross me' look.

>>143192782
Sorry, what is the source for this?

Google and yandex gave junk results.

>>143206289
Would raping her even make her flinch at this point? How boring.

>>143192782
>dat nip

>>143206343

She'd be the one doing the Raping. After all, years of Worm Rape would harden her to it. Also her sexual tastes are a lot more broad compared to her sister.

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>>143196367
>so Tohsaka Sakura would probably come to trust Kotomine far more as well.

No way, Sakura has an immensely empathetic nature, that much was said in her bio in the materials. They'd have each other's number in regards to their inner nature. She wouldn't see herself as a fellow apprentice like Rin did.

>>143192782
Source? Cartoon gives me google
>>143206375
Ewww. Femdom is disgusting

>>143205206
> If one is to talk about the burdened sufferings and the harshness, hers is incomparable.
She overcame more difficulties and hardships than anyone.

wut? she herself said that she never found anything particularly hard

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I think this look would be pretty common to Tohsaka Sakura as well.

>>143192782

It's always funny to see kuudere loli Sakura. So snarky.

The funniest parts were during the Zero Hanafuda game, where Tokiomi and Kariya were saying she would be a buxom beauty even greater than Aoi when she grew up and went on about her tits. I think someone saved the sprite of her disgust but I can't find it.

>>143206399
Where's this from?

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Once more Rin proves herself a bitch to change around. All that Shiny Hair is a nightmare to get right.

>>143187490
Hanafuda is my favorite thing to come out of Fate.

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Compared to Rin, Sakura is a delight to work with. She's dead easy to rework, and she looks really good to boot. Giving her back the eyes and hair she was born with is quite a good feeling to be honest.

>>143206611
> wut? she herself said that she never found anything particularly hard

that's her own felt about her life she didn't find what she lived dificult but that doesn't mean it's an 'easy' life either to a more neutral point of view. In term of pressure being alone and the child of the Tohsaka family is difficult.

>>143207108
>>143208142
Actually Rin looks better you fucking pleb.

>>143208439

The recolouring job I mean. I'm not commenting on their base appearance, merely my shitty skills of worming Rin and deworming Sakura.

>>143208329

On the other side of it Rin knows she was kind of lucky all things considered. She dealt with the isolation of being alone and the responsibilities of being a magus, but she had family members who helped her (don't forget the Zenjous), her study guide for magecraft all planned out, and the ability to live comfortably while indulging in her craft while someone actually helped her refine it. Kirei is a straight up dick, but he helped her out the right way as a magus, not like Zouken with Sakura.

The irony is that Kirei DID teach her a lot of things well besides magecraft, including martial arts and medicine, probably taught her how to cook with the hugely biased menu of spicy food.

It wouldn't have hurt as much otherwise when she learned he killed her father because she was already suspicious of him as a child and he broke his promise to her to bring her dad back safely. She should be a lot more bitter to him given the guy ain't really a warm person. She really respected him as a fellow apprentice, you see that all over the VN.

>>143185472

Sakura broke just as quickly idiot

>>143189758

The worms turned Sakura's hair purple because Sakura was incompatible with the Matou magecraft. Rin's an Average One, though, so Matou (water type) magecraft would work fine with her and she shouldn't have nearly as drastic physical changes.

>>143192110

Retard, the whole point of HF is that Sakura is broken goods and Shirou is the only one who can give her healing

>>143196367

You're also a moron, Sakura snapped like a twig

There's a fanfic about that.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11720485/1/Moonlit-Fate

Basically, Roa reincarnates into Rin, so Sakura becomes the heir to the Tohsaka family.

>>143189731

Yes and no, base personality is determined by genetics and the environment surrounding the individual through childhood an early adulthood is what determines what parts of the underlying personality are manifested.

Sakura when with Shirou is more or less the true Sakura, while Rin is essentially the true Rin all the time that she isn't acting specifically as a magus. It's a baseless claim to think that Matou Rin would not have a different personality than Matou Sakura.

>>143209569

Why the fuck would Roa reincarnate into Rin and not Sakura? Sakura is the one he has the Imaginary Numbers compatibility with. His magecraft would suck in Rin's hands.

>>143209639
Not like any of them are as good as Ciel or Shiki though.

>>143209680

Not really, Rin and Sakura have the same degree of potential, and Rin's potential is to reach a full 100 rating (same as Ciel) as a magus.

If Roa reincarnated into Sakura, assuming this isn't Matou Sakura we're talking about, he would definitely be able to reach the same level as Ciel

>>143209732
>and Rin's potential is to reach a full 100 rating

Rin would be between 70-100.

And Ciel is a 100 by herself, and that's only because she's not interested in magic at all.

Roa Ciel is different.

>>143209732
Ciel is a 100 despite the fact that she has very little experience with magic. If it's Roa taking out her full potential it's obviously more than 100.


Rin is a 70 for sure, and she's been training all her life.

So yeah, Rin will never be as good as Ciel if we're talking about vessels.

>>143209869

Yes, as I said, her potential is to reach a full 100.

Ciel is only a 100 because of the knowledge that Roa imparted on her. Without Roa, she'd be a 0. Of course she could go beyond that since A) she has the foundation of most of Roa's magecraft to work off of, and B) she's immortal and has all the time in the world to study and improve.

If Sakura had the same boosts, there's no doubt she could reach the same level.

>>143209930

>very little experience

Yeah I guess having a shitload of Roa's knowledge engraved into her mind and body counts as very little experience.

>>143209966
>Yes, as I said, her potential is to reach a full 100.
Yeah, maybe.

>Ciel is only a 100 because of the knowledge that Roa imparted on her. Without Roa, she'd be a 0.
No shit genius? even then Ciel is not an expert and Nasu has said so, she has the knowledge from Roa but she's not that efficient using it, even then she's still a 100. Are you unable to understand? Ciel without even trying is 100, Rin training all her life MIGHT reach the same level as Ciel, the one that gives 0 shits about magic.

>>143209334
People are under the impression that Sakura withstood it all and didn't cry like the whore she is.

>>143209334
>The worms turned Sakura's hair purple because Sakura was incompatible with the Matou magecraft. Rin's an Average One, though, so Matou (water type) magecraft would work fine with her and she shouldn't have nearly as drastic physical changes.

Dude, it's a traumatic process, Sakura's hair didn't immediately turn purple. Kariya's hair turned white even when he was born with Makino blood, and he noted Sakura takes the process a lot better being from a much stronger magic potential.

Waver also didn't completely take to Kayneth's tools despite being his student AND having the same element(also because his family had like two generation in comparisons to the Tohsaka's six). Being connected to the person really does matter, and being adopted does hurt the potential a magus could have.

That was why the best thing for Sakura as a magus was going to the Edelfelt(because she has their blood), failing staying a Tohsaka. Rin's talents would also suffer from not staying a Tohsaka because her bodies is aligned to a certain foundation given she and Sakura are the sixth generation of Tohsakas, their bodies are used to that set of magecraft. Being an Average One means things are easier, but it's not a get out of jail free card from your potential suffering, much less being made into a magical guinea pig for a madman who doesn't care what happens to your body as long as you get results. That isn't even getting into the poisoning and Grail experiments Zouken put Sakura through. Let's be frank, Zouken all but tried to kill her, and it wasn't his kindness that saved her life over the years. Rin won't have a nice go of it, to make a huge understatement, nor should you think that she'd thrive as a magus because the point the VN pounded in your head is that Zouken was mad to do what he did, not that it was something minor.

>>143210042

>Yeah, maybe.

Not maybe. It's a confirmed possibility for Rin, who only has the Tohsaka magecraft mystic crest.

>No shit genius? even then Ciel is not an expert and Nasu has said so

Actually he's been very explicit that she is a master of magecraft, among the finest in the world. She just doesn't like using it.

>Ciel without even trying is 100

Ciel with Roa's knowledge and when actively using that knowledge is 100.

>Rin training all her life MIGHT reach the same level

Yes, and do you understand what that really means? It means she can potentially match someone who has a large portion of Roa's knowledge and skills despite only having the low-grade Tohsaka mystic crest as a foundation for her own magecraft.

Now imagine what Sakura would be like if she had Roa's knowledge.

>>143210213
>Now imagine what Sakura would be like if she had Roa's knowledge.

Well now, let's not get crazy. Sakura is more of an outlier, with an element that people normally don't have.

I don't think we even know Ciel's magical alignment or origin, which probably helped when Roa chose her. All we know is she was one of those freaks that was just born with potential. Might not work for Sakura in the same way.

Which kind of reminds me, I wonder if she would ever meet that Hispanic guy who has Imaginary Numbers at the Clock Tower. Maybe Dilo knows the guy.

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>>143209680
If I was Roa i'd choose Shiki 100 times out of 100. Like.. Shiki is a mutant just like Ciel(as in, his magic circuits), he has pure eyes and he has MEoDP.

Adding lightning magic and vampire powers to that, noise.

>>143209732
>Sakura

Isn't her magic like Sacchin's?

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>>143210553
Well he did in Ciel route, things just didn't work his way.

>>143210129

Its mostly people trying to bait, but Sakura is actually strong. She obviously cried sometimes, but the big thing was, as Zouken notes, she adapted almost to an unearthly degree that shit just stopped working on her. There was even a scene where it notes she developed the ability to sense people having hostility toward her, even when she was asleep.

Though I think the major point was that she ended up at least highly functional, when she should have been unfit for schooling with her lifestyle.

It's why Rider loved her, she went through shit, but stalwartly wanted to live normally, and not drown herself in bitterness.

>>143210728
Sauce?

>>143210601
How did you come to that conclusion?

>>143210911
>and not drown herself in bitterness.
But she was, it was all due to Shirou that she changed that. That's how weak she is.

>>143210983
>But she was, it was all due to Shirou that she changed that
Confirmed for not reading the VN.

She just didn't care anymore, it was not bitterness.

>That's how weak she is.
Except Zoken outright calls her the strongest fortress.

>>143211055
>Except Zoken outright calls her the strongest fortress.
Because you can't break something that has no personality. She is a literal doormat that gained some personality when she copied Shirou.

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>>143210929
HF

>>143210979
How does Roa benefit from Hollow element?

>>143211182

Not particularly. She comes out and tells Shirou that day she first saw him was one of her worst days, and she just wanted to vent, so she wished he failed. Not exactly the most flattering thing to tell the guy you love. The thing was, I noted she was strong, not because she was infallible or completely resistant.

She wasn't a doll Shirou brought back to life but one who knew her life sucked and just dealt with it sucking. She accepted that life might be worth living after all and tries to change a bit after getting to know Shirou AND Taiga(don't forget Taiga is important in that).

The best part of Shirou/Sakura was that she didn't just have this ephemeral crush, nor was just this girl who appeared out of the ether, she tried to be friends with Shirou, awkward as it was, to build a relationship with him, and THEN fell for him. It was a job to her as Zouken's spy, and then she warmed up to him.

As for her kindness, she felt for Shinji of all people despite what she went through. That isn't reminiscent of being a doormat or someone with no personality. Perhaps one who is too empathetic, but her personality is crystal clear if you aren't trying undermine it all with the soundbite of "no personality". When you look up stuff about Shinji in CM2, it says that she could have been much happier if she had treated him like trash.

>>143211199
>>143210728
>HF gets manga and movies
>UBW gets a shitty anime
>Fate gets shit

UBW and Fate fags on suicide watch

>>143189731
Some people are born evil Anon.

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>>143183673
>Does Rin summon Rider

Ayako Rider would have answered that call.