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What's your favorite character archetype?

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Thread replies: 285
Thread images: 111

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What's your favorite character archetype?
>>
Pure girlfriend who secretly cucks you
>>
>>139746397
>vanilla
>kissing
>leglock
I came from the heart.
>>
Smug immortal loli.
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>>139746397
Cute and pure girl is cute and pure because of the way she was raised and not so fat neets can fap to her.
>>
>>139746877
So, shit?
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Thoughts on finger sucking?
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The operator.
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Based old man
>>
>>139746397
Kuudere maids. And sluts for one dick.
>>
>>139746995
My dark skinned comrade
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Angry powerful motherfuckers.
>>
>>139746397
source
>>
>>139748182
>Sluts, for one dick
Choose one.
Also good choise with kuu
>>
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Insane obsessed stalker girl
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>>139748472
You know what's better?

Happy, powerful motherfuckers
>>
>>139746397
Justice junkies that aren't dicks and are actually cool and chill guys.
>>
>>139746995
>what is english
>>
>>139746877
Reasonably sure only two of them would actually be cold tuna. Reina and Koito would definitely flip their switch during sex.
>>
>>139749248
>what is reading comprehension
>>
>>139746397
The smugger. Or possibly the hardass. Which is probably why I like Ojous and a lot of characters that get called bitches.
>>
>>139746995
So you like glorified plot devices good to know.
>>
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>>139746397
The silent servant who understand you well.
>>
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>>139746397
Girls who are bad at showing emotions
>>
Coold beauty, was it called?
>>
>>139747384
>>139747505
these
not nearly enough of them but when they're done right they're awesome.
>>
i really like autism
>>
Dis kind
>>
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>>139753305
Yes. The one you posted seems to be broken though.
>>
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Bros who are bros without it being gay shit.
>>
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Characters who start out as whiney pussies and slowly become tough motherfuckers.
>>
Platonic guy/girl friendships
>>
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>>139746397
>>
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I like the genki milf archetype.
>>
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>>139754831
Well, I don't know you, but part of why I like them is when they start to trust you and get more dere around you without losing their aura.
>>
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>>139747384
We need more of them in this world.
>>
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>>139746529
Holy shit, I thought I was the only one. Did you read GE - Good Ending too?
>>
>>139756672
Holy shit somebody else besides me actually read Holyland
>>
>>139754724
Picked up, thanks.
>>
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>>139756672
I like when characters are whiney pussies but if they actually snap they're insanely overwhelming and brutal. I also like the MC from destroy and revolution, but the holyland author seems to only be able to make 1 archetypal MC over and over.
>>
Tsundere girls and perverted gentleman for guys.
>>
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>>139746529
underrated post.
>>
>>139759233
have you got a sauce for that anon-kun?
>>
>>139759279
Anorexia - something something nip words

We had a thread last night but the mods deleted it for some reason. It's on desustorage though.
>>
Cute
Red haired
Princess of Kou
>>
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Bus sluts.
Highschool of the Dead gave me a fetish.
>>
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>>139759358
see you >>139758644
>>
>If female
Stuckup Ojou (OO~HOHOHOH laugh is a big plus)
Genki tomboy (childhood friend optional)
Mafia/Yakusa princess
"I need a husband" sensei
Thick glasses nerd that is actualy gorgeous without them
Cool onee-san

>If male
Badass dad
Bro wingman that helps MC to get the girl (bonus if bro gets a girl too)
Hotblooded dude
PUNtastic class clow
Straigh man in absurd situations
>>
>>139759410
What the fuck, Panelsfag, is that you?
>>
>>139757545
No, but i read your pic
>>
>>139759532
Indeedy. What's up?
>>
>>139759335
It was a nice thread, kinda weird it got deleted
>>
>>139759484
How about bro wingman who steals the girl
>>
>>139759586
kek you randy bastard, I thought you were vanilla
>>
cool old dudes

SOIYA
>>
>>139757545
Source for this? google image gives me nothing
>>
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>>139747279
I don't get it? Why is it a thing? Why do girls suck fingers? Why do guys think "I better stick my fingers in her mouth!"
>>
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>>139758644
>>
>>139759686
What can I say, it's a guilty pleasure.
>>
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>>139759616
Castrato nipple mod had PTSD flashback?
>>
>>139759822
Author?
>>
>>139759822
Whst manga is this couple from
>>
>>139759892
Fuckin' serious?
It's Asuka and kaworu from Evangelion
>>
>>139759335
got it, cheers
>>
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>>139758644
>>
>>139759778
Kareshi ni Naisho de

GF has gangbangs everyday, even though her BF is a virgin
>>
>>139759778

artist is higashino mikan but don't bother that's like his only NTR story ever

shame too because he likes focusing on thick girls
>>
>>139759865
Shit sucks though, there were no lewds and it was a legit manga, not some hentai doujin
>>
>>139756672
>>139757685
mah niqqas
>>
>>139756672
This
>>
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Tough guy with gap moe points.
>>
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>>139756672
Tsukune
>>
>>139756672
Tough motherfucker who actually goes nearly off the deep end. It was great seeing the MC become some monster. Felt real.
>>
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>>139746397
Refined prettyboy.
>>
>>139759927
They look like a good couple wondering if I should give it a read
>>
>>139760034
Were the Shindol threads purged? Maybe it got caught up in the sweep?
>>
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>>139760302
>>
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>>139753261
Why does relife never get threads here? Do people think it's not /a/ for some autistic reason?
>>
>>139760302
The only romance in Eva is between two boys.
>>
>>139760389
Cant remember, but did these two even interact with each other?
>>
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Tsundere mature otouto who takes care of his useless hikki oneesan.
>>
>>139760415
That'll change once the anime airs. Probably won't change in a good way.

And I thought it was a Korean webcomic at first given how it looked like so maybe that threw people off.
>>
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>>139760503
A little.
>>139760457
Misato/Kaji
Gendo/Yui
>>
>>139760176
This
Also popular guys who are secretly shy and very virgin
>>
>>139747279
Literally the best shit ever
>>
>>139760389
Does the artist draw cute stuff that doesn't have the gay angel?
>>
>>139759335
>Anorexia
is it even hentai?
i tried to search on sadpanda but is not there.
>>
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Sheltered rich girls.
>>
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>>139760931
yea
>>
>>139759637
But thats not how bro wingmans work, anon!

How about bros sharing their girlfriends
>>
>>139760973
Nah
Anorexia – Shikabane Hanako wa Kyoshokushou
>>
>>139760973
never said it was.

Would love some fake pure girl soft-femdom NTR though.
>>
>all the NTRfags in this thread

Holy shit kill yourselves
>>
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>>139760389
>>
>>139761007
That's fucking adorable
>>
>>139761026
>Anorexia – Shikabane Hanako wa Kyoshokushou
>>139761058
awww i wanted to fap really hard to this, welp thanks anons.

inb4: cuck
go back to /v/
>>
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the shy and easily embarrassed tomboy
>>
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>>139761191
>>
Girls that are cunts but have a legitimate reason to be cunts.
>>
>>139746397
This doujin was hot as hell.
>>
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the inexplicable talent
>>
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>>139761254
this nigga gets it
>>
>>139749143
Holy shit are those supposed to write out something? I can almost read it...
>>
>>139761313
CUTE!
CUTE!
CUUUUTE!
>>
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this
;_;
>>
the ara ara kind
>>
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The badass delinquent with a big heart, who is both stupid and stupidly strong.
>>
>>139759410
Is this the official manga?
>>
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Terrifying guy with a villain face who just wants to be accepted.
>>
>>139761828
Yes, and no.
This is the full colour omnibus. It's quite nice really, though I haven't picked up the second one just yet.
>>
>>139746397
Cheerful tomboy
>>
Humble pushovers despite the fact they're a lot stronger than the people theyre being polite to
>>
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The constant loser
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>>139761950
>this is a tomboy in 2D
>>
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This one
>>
>>139762027
Sleepy scientists are cute
>>
>>139761883
Where the hell do I find it?
Only paid options everywhere and google source doesn't help.
>>
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The most human Inhuman humans.
>>
>>139762098
If you're lucky, you can nab one on ebay for about £30.
As for the second omnibus, I think Amazon might be the only option, and even then you're not garunteed to get one that's brand new.
If you want to see a page to see if its worth the cost, let me know which page and I'll grab a picture.
>>
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>>139762174
>>
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>>139762303
>>
Gruff adult raising a child on their own.
Love that archetype
>>
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>>139761873
MC from angel densetsu started this I think.
>>
>>139749143
what
>>
The Hero
>>
>>139762027
Shes so fucking chill. Shes like a plant with legs. Also, I am claiming this one. *starts writing on paper* "This one is mine" -Anon
>>
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>>139762370
>>
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>>139759233
>>
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Hardass with a sensitive side.
>>
>>139762486
>*starts writing on paper* "This one is mine" -Anon
>>
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What is this character archetype called?
>>
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>>139762486
>*starts writing on paper* "This one is mine" -Anon

How cute, it's retarded
>>
>>139762663
>worst shingeki
>>
>>139757545

How do you all read shit like this without getting mad?
>>
>>139762486
Are you for fucking real? Quit being such a faggot.
>>
>>139762706
Hitch a best.
>>
>>139762707
I got super mad.
But, I also got super fucking turned on.
>>
>>139762538
Got some sauce for that, senpai?
>>
>>139762707
Penis feeling good>being angry
>>
>>139762730
>Implying Hitch is better than Rico.
Poor anon, you should see a doctor, you appear to have a mental problem.
>>
>>139762661
"Translations never"?
>>
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>>139746397
The obligatory kind and lovely senpai.
>>
>>139762590
If you steel her i'll... i'll... I can't do shit. This is all probably just a figment of my imagination anyway. I'm in a coma right now.
>>
>>139762761
>>139762780

I guess this is just one of those fetishes I'll never be able to understand. Do you imagine yourselves as the MC or do you get off to his suffering?
>>
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>>139762807
>his waifu doesn't have a smug anime face
>>
>>139762780
Being utterly gormless, then
>>
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>>139762707
>He hasn't learned to channel his inner ki to change the flow of his anger to redirect into his penis

Casual.
>>
>>139762882
Third party, seeing the girl get destroyed while the MC gets cucked
>>
Curvy hajidere.
>>
>>139746397
Brocon sister (ane or imouto, either is good).
>>
>>139762882
I don't really imagine myself being there at all. Rather, I'm like a passerby, furiously masturbating
>>
>>139762961
>seeing the girl get destroyed
That's boring. NTR is best when mixed with the type of femdom the Tamagoro girls display.
>>
Yandere, period

Though I also like Bros, genkis, tomboys, and happy-go-lucky motherfuckers.
>>
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>>139762761
>>139762780
Can't you get hard or turned on in some way other then getting mad or feeling like you're getting cucked?

Have you thought about seeing a therapist?

Why would you want to get mad and depressed to jack off when you could be getting off to cute stuff like pic related
And don't give me that "you grow out of that" or "you'll be like me someday" shit
I've been masturbating to 2D exclusively for the last 5 years and NTR shit still disgusts me
>>
>>139762707
Ancient Tibetan wisdom of detaching yourself from the characters in the story. In other words, stop fucking self-inserting.
>>
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>>139762904
>>
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>>139762904
Who needs a smug face when you have perfect running form and a tight booty because of it?
>Hitch a closet lesbian that will never touch your weenis
>>
>>139763072
How else do you think she got into the MP?
>>
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>>139746397
Nigga that's like asking what kind of ice cream i want in a fucking deli.
>>
>>139763054
Angry faps are the best faps lad
>>
>>139763054
See >>139763018
>>
>>139763054
This does absolutely nothing for me. It's like watching a married couple in their 40s talk about where to go for sunday brunch.

>And don't give me that "you grow out of that" or "you'll be like me someday" shit
>I've been masturbating to 2D exclusively for the last 5 years and NTR shit still disgusts me

Try upping your game to 5-8 times a day. It only took me a year to get into NTR like that. I basically exhausted every single translated hentai too.
>>
>>139762813
;_____;
>>
>>139762961
>>139763018

Okay, that makes more sense. I have learned today.

>>139763059

I don't self-insert anon. I just still the situation fucked up even if I'm not emotionally invested in the character. I wouldn't wish such a thing even on an enemy, but if they're like >>139759233 and just let it happen right in front of them than they deserve their fate.
>>
>>139763114
"2 years worth of semen flowed endlessly"
>>
>>139763255
>but if they're like >>139759233 and just let it happen right in front of them than they deserve their fate

Its ok, that guy doesnt even have a penis anyway
>>
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>>139756672
>The manlet that learned
>>
>>139763131
I lose my erection when i get angry, and i have to go punch something or it sits inside me for days, leaving me with sick feeling

>>139763203
Try upping your game to 5-8 times a day.

I did that in highschool, i have a job now, i don't have time for that shit
and even when i ran out of stuff, i could always go back and reread, or find just base pictures of stuff i liked

Running out of content doesn't mean i'll start being atracted to something that disgusts me
>>
>>139763324
He can cum with a prostate massage.
>>
>>139763379
Punch yourself in the dick.
>>
>>139763379
>I lose my erection when i get angry, and i have to go punch something
Anon, you need to get into dominating.
If you have a willing 3dpd, then you're in for a treat
>>
>>139763324

That's even worse anon.
>>
>>139763255
>le cheating is the worst thing could ever happen T_T
You sure are one hell of a fucking drama queen. There is no reason to give a shit about a dude who only appears in two panels at most.
>>
>>139761254
this my niggas

bonus point if they are knights or OLs/cakey
>>
>>139763379
>leaving me with sick feeling
Take that feeling's chakra and circle it around your from the pit of your stomach, to your right chest, to your head, back down to your left chest, then a straight down to your dick. It's like manual brain reprogramming so you can get off to despair. It works pretty good
>>
>>139756672
>when gohan finally snaps and just starts slam dunkin the cell Jr's

That shitbwas hype and you know it.
>>
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>>139763437
He isnt called "useless-kun" for nothing you know
>>
I like the underestimated hero like Saitama.
>>
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>>139763316
>>
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>>139763552
This manga is funny because everyone around him is perverted degenerates and he isn't even slightly inclined save the prostate massage. Like the loli asks him to drink her pee and he flicks her in the forehead.
>>
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>>139757227
I like the Rinko archetype.
>>
>>139760415
They spent like 30 fucking chapters on some broken legged side chick with some idiotic childhood drama. I dropped that shit.
>>
>>139746397
Jesus fucking christ this was wayy too cute for me oh my god my heart is gonna burst im seriously done damn nigga fuck me
>>
>>139763499

>le
>emoticons

Sometimes I wish Reddit was never created.
>>
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Is this an archetype?
>>
>>139759233
>>139759335
>>139761026
I think I read that.
I also think it's literally the worst manga I have ever read.
>>
>>139764406
Emoticons predate Reddit anon.
>>
>>139764406
We can deal with the ones who slip out, but most stay in their containment. If Reddit went down 4chan and other things not worth mentioning would be filled with even more edgy pretentious faggots and memes.
>>
>>139747279
I think it's disgusting. All I can think of is how much that finger must smell.
>>
File: 1456231039870.png (77KB, 279x258px)
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Husky girl archetype.
>>
>>139764891
gross
>>
File: 01___nancy_lee_.jpg (130KB, 694x1151px)
01___nancy_lee_.jpg
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>>139746397
Damsel in distress because it increases the chance for bondage fan service
>>
File: ke em tbh.jpg (767KB, 1280x720px)
ke em tbh.jpg
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>>139764891
i know extactly where this is from
>>
>>139764891
>girl
I know this may or may not be bait, but still..
>>
File: 1343699987602.jpg (210KB, 1279x721px)
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>>139764923
You can't see or here it, but I am screaming irrationally at you.
>>
>>139746529
God-tier taste anon
>>
Girl with trust issues that just wants to be loved.

bonus if tsundere
>>
>>139759800
You have obviously never had your finger sucked or suck a finger for that matter.
>>
File: Kurisu11.png (152KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]
Kurisu11.png
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>>139765268
>>
File: Lust.jpg (21KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]
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Dark clothing, dark aesthetics, sexy and evil.
>>
>>139746397
Is this a trap or a loli?
>>
File: image.jpg (575KB, 1280x1863px)
image.jpg
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>>139765555
Just your average high schooler, short and flat.
>>
>>139759233
He deserves it.
>>
>>139764654
Worst as in the story made you feel bad or worst as in terribly written?
>>
File: 1442947164777.jpg (187KB, 1300x1181px) Image search: [Google]
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>>139746397
The smothering older sister/woman figure
>>
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>>139766014
I bet they smell nice.
>>
>>139765935
terribly written worst
>>
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>>139766014
>tfw S2 never
I just want more Mutsuki-nee.
>>
File: P052.png (1MB, 1271x1850px) Image search: [Google]
P052.png
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>>139766014
Is this smothering enough?
>>
>>139761007
Is that from a spin off or a doujin or something? I want to read it.
>>
File: 21 (6).jpg (2MB, 728x6968px)
21 (6).jpg
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>>139766162
It'd be fine if it were like 12 volumes and they spaced out the twists and built up to the edgefest more.

I think the manga was supposed to make you steaming too because the most abhorrent human garbage had such a sweetly drawn, romantic ending.

No repentance for her brother or anything. She just gets with the villain and tosses aside her yandere brocon character now that she can walk again and doesn't feel like it's divine punishment for cutting off his dick.
>>
File: Amon_in_re.png (244KB, 370x388px)
Amon_in_re.png
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Average-looking motherfucker in a cast of freaks and misfits, but still kicks maximum ass. Cast as the deuteragonist
>>
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ss+(2016-04-07+at+06.15.13).png
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>>139766415
I'm still breathing, so clearly not.
>>
>>139766657
I had absolute zero investment in anyone, because the twists toward the end were too mind-numbingly stupid for me to even look at anything else.
>>
>>139756478
These guys are incredible motherfuckers who deserve more that what they have
>>
>>139766840
The last chapter feels like a different author came in and explained everything to burn the Sci-fi or Supernatural tag.

Obviously I had no investment in it, but it wasn't any worse than a lot of manga plots, there just wasn't buildup to the insanity because it only had 2 tanks.
>>
File: 006.png (471KB, 1073x1500px)
006.png
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>>139766796
I see. This then?
>>
>>139762404
>I actually have this problem
>I'm really a pretty laid back guy who likes to joke around a lot
>nearly had my head smashed through a window and narrowly avoided a stabbing because people thought I was trying to start shit
>everyone I get to know is always like, "I thought you were really mean, anon, but you're actually super nice!"

The worst thing is if I try to look intimidating I just look like a retard.
>>
File: ENG24 (1).jpg (514KB, 1200x1744px)
ENG24 (1).jpg
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>>139766981
not quite
>>
>>139765609
Sauce? GRIS isn't working.
>>
>>139761873
Need source. Google images is useless.
Thank you Anon.
>>
>>139767093
Google sends me to some russian 4chan knockoff, source me.
>>
>>139767176
http://exhentai.org/g/921822/ddf629e367/
>>
>>139759233
Source? I couldn't find it.
>>
>>139767314
link broken?
>>
>>139767176
jesus christ google image search finds it on the first hit dude do you really need to ask i mean nigga how new are you
>>
>>139767406
>http://exhentai.org/g/921822/ddf629e367/
what, does it show you a sad panda?
>>
>>139767406
I've loaded it up twice, and it still gives the same URL.

Says it's been removed on g-e hentai so that might have something to do with it, I can still load it up fine though.
>>
>>139767314
>>139767474
This is what you get for trying to help these people.
>>
>>139767474
yea
>>
File: Alias.png (149KB, 920x1000px)
Alias.png
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>>139762078
2D scientists in general are cute.
>>
>>139767536
Mea culpa.
>>139766981
I can't find this on either google or iqdb (without first having to dig through a bunch of moonruned thumbnails, could you source me?
>>
File: absolutelyharam.jpg (11KB, 238x211px) Image search: [Google]
absolutelyharam.jpg
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>>139767536
>2016
>getting stuck on sad panda
>>
>>139753180
requesting name of light novel in your pic please. I like maids
>>
>>139748690
FOUND THE SOURCE ITS ICHA ICHA KONE KONE LOVE LOVE BY AKKANAGI
>>
>>139767901
Well done anon-kun, good jobu
>>
File: source.png (480KB, 1585x1080px) Image search: [Google]
source.png
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>Source
>Source
>Source
Jesus christ what the fuck /a/
>>
File: Untitled-2.jpg (1MB, 1718x2500px)
Untitled-2.jpg
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>>139746397
folded a thousand times in paint
>>
I don't necessarily know if it's my favorite or not, but ojou-samas that aren't total cunts are always the coolest characters.
>>
>>139762771
Don't search the thumbnail
>>
>>139760982
The best.

The best.
>>
>>139767265
http://exhentai.org/g/836254/d2d21d0f1b/
>>139767650
http://exhentai.org/g/860820/c6ba42ee65/
>>
>>139762707
>not self inserting as the rapist
You fucking beta
>>
File: 144569605943.png (179KB, 540x342px)
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>>139768365
Domo.
>>
File: Vincent_Gun.jpg (95KB, 960x768px)
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>>
>>139759233

I hope she suffered later on.
>>
>>139746397
Depends usually I'm in for old school loli tsunderes, but from time to time I'll switch to healthy onee-sans and childhood friends.
>>
>>139765609
>you were always way better than all of your friends at videogames
>but never actually gud
I never got to play with any of them, just curb stomped them until they got bored.
>>
Give me a genki girl and im happy.
>>
File: 1369415433397.jpg (342KB, 970x1200px)
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Onee sans/Christmas cakes/Cold beauties
>>
File: 1458097544404.gif (447KB, 540x420px)
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Ice Queens
>>
File: LMq1OQu.png (3MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]
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A second brother to the MC. Also rich girls without common sense like Meiya.
>>
>>139746397
Fundamentally broken individuals who keep going on just to spit in the face of the world. I.E. Guts
>>
File: 36 - 37.png (1MB, 2720x1920px)
36 - 37.png
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That girl from the Norinko manga is a fucking godly archetype.

It's like light-femdom healing-type soft cuddling loli hime that is supportive and innocent but sexually advanced too somehow.

Nipple mod please don't ban me again.
>>
File: Untitled.png (225KB, 1420x594px)
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>>139768038
I'd like to point out that GIS is an enigma that I can't figure out. See here searching the thumbnail works but actual image doesn't.
>>
>>139770975
A NIPPLE
ITS
A
FUCKING
NIIIIIIPPPPLLLEEEEE
>>
>>139763054
I don't get mad or feel like I'm getting cucked when I read NTR. I used to get mad but that is mostly because of the characters stupidity that got them in those situations.

I also don't self insert.
>>
>>139760415
last time i saw a relife thread , anons spammed "seems like NTR ,DISGUSTING"
>>
>>139770975
What is the sauce?
I tried google and even searched for their names but nothing came up.
>>
>>139772514
that's because it's just came out in the recent ukkaf compilation torrent
>>
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>>139759233
>>
>>139770979
Turn off safe search
>>
>>139772798
It is off. And I've disabled customised results.
>>
>>139772868
You might want to check the code to actually turn off safe searcg
>>
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>>139746877
>>
>>139753261
Isn't this getting an anime soon?
>>
Female pink-haired cynical self aware smug/sardonic MC.
>>
>>139772687
what does that mean? im a pleb who just waits until stuff is translated on exhentai
>>
>>139760192
First manga i ever read, never got over my obsession with mizore
>>
>>139764891
help with source
>>
>starts as worthless porn thread
>tilts toward actual discussion
>insufferable faggots just read the OP and not the thread
>turns back into a worthless porn thread
Every. Time.
>>
>>139773899
Figure it out. I had to censor the phrasing to prevent DMCA shills that scour desustorage
>>
>>139775121
>DMCA shills that scour desustorage
What the what?
>>
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>>139759233
>>139746529
>>139757545
>>139765240

"Cuck" implies that you are aware of it you fucking retards. There is no such thing as secretly being cucked.
>>
>>139775706
People who work for _______ pressure mods into removing posts linking to reposted h-manga violating the DMCA.

When you do link it you need to make it hard to find with a general search.
>>
>>139767700
people being stuck on the panda will never stop being funny
>>
>>139775977
This is some borderline /x/ shit right there
>>
>>139756672
Kaneki's transition to a badass during his fight with Jason was the most beautiful thing I have ever witnessed. Gave my dick goosebumps.
>>
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>>139766684
>This motherfucker pops up
>His introduction has him massacre like 10 really strong people in an instant
>His ability is the most overpowered shit in existence
>Just wears a normal school uniform and regular hair
I love this type of shit.
>>
>>139770979
Try searching on SauceNao or Yandex.

Google search is always shit to me, and always disappoints me.
>>
Crazy as fuck.
>>
>>139767724
She is rarely being mentioned but it's Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai
>>
File: amber.jpg (33KB, 353x200px) Image search: [Google]
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Intelligent and confident cute girl.
>>
>>139775739
>responding to underaged /pol/fags

I want the word to be filtered again it gets rid of underages and the worst kind of crossboarders quite easily
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