The BBC has made another article about manga.
>Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics?
Gets me every time.
Seriously though, is there any real logical reason to ban loli, rape and violence towards women in manga, games and anime? It's 2D, not 3D.
Thanks. Now to have some fun reading and listening.
Have a Namori Dragon Quest Builder.
Why don't western countries have any sense anymore?
I've just wasted 28 minutes listening to this garbage.
>we have to turn Japan into a country, which people don't call "a perverted culture"
No. No we don't you fucking degenerate cunt.
The end was the worst part
>If you just think or assume how a person is because of what they read it'd be like thought crime
>Okay so you are saying that it's acceptable for people to draw five year olds being raped
>N-no I don't mean it that way
Interesting they were able to talk to Est Em though, I didn't expect that at all.
why is the BBC obsessed with this?
leave japan alone!!
Never change Britain. Never change.
It's always been like this, hypocrites barging into other countries and screaming at the top of their lungs that they're all really bad and icky and that they should be more like us. The arrogance is astonishing.
>lolicon has no artistic value
>draw 2 stick figures, is this child porn?
>draw 2 anime girls, is this child porn?
>no artistic value
>a major producer of sexually exploitative representations of virtual children
My sides, won't someone please think of the virtual children.
>My sides, won't someone please think of the virtual children.
Exactly what I was thinking. I don't know how the writer didn't change that sentence, because it sounds funny as fuck and shows how retarded this whole stance is.
I draw the line at toddlercon.
Of course I would never have it banned, because the line can't ever be defined without arbitrary statements. But still, sexual depictions of children that act and look like children is still wrong no matter how you frame it.
Lolis although most of the time have "childlike" characteristics most often have them at unrealistic standards or have adult mentalities. Try explaining that to anyone however.
The question you should be asking yourself is "Is this potentially legal in a country that I know of."
If the answer is no, then there's something wrong.
Double digits should be fine.
Is this manga such a high literary work of art as the article makes it out to be? Or is it just that since it's drawn by a women, it can't be considered a simple work of sexual fantasy?
Every year there's at least a couple of articles complaining about anime and manga being perverted and encouraging child abuse, but it's always just for clicks and there's not going to be shit done about in Japan. Still annoying how westerners think they are on some moral high ground on this issue.
This is bait but I'll bite, you didn't even read my post because I would never want anyone to go to jail for drawing anything. In fact lolis might even be an outlet for most pedos which is a good thing
However it still wrong Achmed, there's a difference between lolis with fantasy characteristics and lolis that actually appeal to pedophiles. No pedophile is gonna find a stick figure attractive.
Who gives a fuck? It's all fiction, it doesn't matter how young they are or if they act like children, because they don't fucking exist. They were created by a pervert who wants to draw anime girls having sex, and that's all it is.
There's nothing wrong with being disgusted by a fetish in particular, but saying that anything in this is "wrong" is pure bullshit. Normalfags find the fact that you fap to drawn women instead of fucking three whores a day wrong as well, you know.
>However it still wrong
How is it wrong?
Parents would torch your house if they knew the "disgusting" things you jerk off to with pubescent chests, no matter if you think that's somehow morally right because "they act like adults".
And yet you turn it around and go "Oh, I'm not that bad, THESE guys are the real freaks". You'd both be treated in the same way by a fucking media circus.
Nothing you can draw on a fucking piece of paper is wrong.
>victim-less crime based on how well someones perceived lines on paper resemble what another person thinks looks real or not
This is the same sort of freedom hating mentality that is trying to ban video games because they make murderers.
I feel bad for britbongs. You know your media is cucked when your national channel is called BBC.
It was all UK faggots on that UN special envoy telling Japan to ban it too, some faggots just can't deal with drawings while simultaneously praising the royal family that raped and murdered a bunch of real little girls.
We should have nuked the brits instead of Japan, then we might not have people who pretend to have some moral high ground by banning harmless and not in any way morally questionable drawings.
Because understanding art is about context, if you gave me a picture of children fucking, there's nothing there. However if you show me a doujin showing a rape of a child and then find out later the artist traced CP is there really no ill intention there? That it has no meaning and that's it pandering to no one in specific?
As opposed to watching onii chichi or reading a Shinobu doujin? They're not the same
Shit man, sometimes I like playing games where I kill people. Hell, sometimes I even do it over the internet so I'm murdering real people.
I think you're right, intent is huge. I should go turn myself in for all these attempted murders.
of course it isnt ''morally'' right. Porn in general isnt. But cartoon porn is more morally acceptable than 3DPD porn, even if its of fucked up shit- because no one is harmed in the making, or actually takes part in it.
Id say the worse guro beast loli drawn porn is morally less bad than the most vanilla porn studio's work that exploits confused and retarded actual living human beings.
because one is real, and the other is lines on paper.
The BBC are projecting really hard since all the horrid shit happens here anyway and they do jack shit to protect real girls/boys. The whole Jimmy Saville scandal should say enough by itself.
>Can Computer Programs Be Racist And Sexist
NPR and BBC are left wing propaganda at this point.
I'm confused, a girl with that body type, lipstick/makeup and hair style (particularly the hairstyle) would be so hot.
Why does it have to be a boy?
It's a shoujo. In fact Kaze Ki was essentially the origin of BL and is why fujoshi exist today.
>"Violent fiction reinforces that violence is OK!"
See how stupid you sound?
>nobody minds when violence happens
I can't tell if you're trolling or not.
Why do action movies still exist? This anon is correct. We only need good old fashioned comedies (no potty humor please). Romances should be banned too unless they only depict post-marital love.
All of these reinforce degenerate notions and should not be allowed to corrupt the naive masses.
I'm not saying people are gonna go commit sexual assault because of what they see in media. I'm saying they won't do anything if it actually happens. Also, despite there being laws against sexual assault, people tend to not believe the victims because they think they have an ulterior motive.
How do you even prove that, especially when sometimes people that have lolicon porn have actual CP too?
>I'm saying they won't do anything if it actually happens.
Not only do you have 0 evidence to back this up at all, as everyone in this thread keeps saying the exact same thing could be said for violence in fiction, and if you think either crime goes intentionally unpunished you're a fucking moron.
>Also, despite there being laws against sexual assault, people tend to not believe the victims because they think they have an ulterior motive.
That's because sexual assault is a pretty fucking serious crime and you justifiably need some substantial evidence to back it up.
Everyone's mad that Japan doesn't share their morals. Check how many posts in a day complain about how anime is shit because of X supposed feature of Jap/otaku culture. The only difference between /a/ and these shitty journalists is that /a/ happens to like hentai.
>Whether or not the depiction of "virtual children" in manga is violating an actual human right is the crux of the issue. A lot of the material that draws criticism does not aspire to the literary heights of Ms Takemiya's work and critics say it exists purely for titillation. Many believe that even if it is fiction, it should be regulated.
>Ms Boer-Buquicchio says she is aware of the importance of striking the right balance for freedom of expression but that the rights of the child should not be "sacrificed at the expense of powerful and lucrative businesses". She points out that "any pornographic representation of a child," real or not, "constitutes child pornography".
This is why we can't have fun
>if you think either crime goes intentionally unpunished you're a fucking moron.
I don't recall saying that, but good job wasting words.
>Not only do you have 0 evidence to back this up at all
Most people don't believe sexual assault victims in the first place, so there you go. I doubt you would either.
>In doing this, Ms Takemiya herself admits, she may have opened the door to sexual expression in Japanese manga, and it grew from something virtually non-existent to something the UN now considers could be a threat to the welfare of women and children.
GO FOR THE GOLD IN THE TOKYO OLYMPICS
>I don't recall saying that, but good job wasting words.
Your exact words were
>I'm saying they won't do anything if it actually happens.
Unless we're having two different arguments, my previous accusation still stands.
>when sometimes people that have lolicon porn have actual CP too?
A better way of phrasing this is "people that have CP will tend to have lolicon too." Honestly, this rephrasement alone should clear up any misconceptions.
>>Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics?
any anons got that picture of pro-Charlie Hebdo free scpeech article with the link ">Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics?" in the same page?
>Most people don't believe sexual assault victims in the first place
I will believe it when evidence is presented,like every other crime. Just because this particular crime involves women doesn't mean it will get special treatment.
>mass produced hentai/ecchi
Are you stupid or something? We still get tons of smut manga, and the majority of hentai manga isn't mass produced at all. "Mass produced" is always retarded when used on /a/ and is on the same tier as 'soulless' in terms of meaningless words
How wouldn't it paint them in better light? People who want to fuck children will happen to own other media with children in them. They'll probably own movies with child actors in them too.
>Because you're still sexually attracted to children
I don't see anything evil or illegal about this, 3D or 2D. I don't see anything more dangerous about it than having a rape fetish, or anything more disgusting about it than having a scat fetish. Watching 3D CP is rightfully illegal because it's consumption of an illegal good, and the good itself is illegal because its production harms children.
Most of us can differentiate between fantasy and reality.
Now I feel for the Americans clinging to their guns and shit. Pretty much all western countries like to attack America for its guns, and now Japan for REAL freedom of speech and expression.
I knew I would get a reply like this
Yeah bro, I literally cannot stop myself from punching nuns.
>draw two girls
>call them boys
>this is now BL instead of Yuri
I'm not big on loli, but it's still art and you shouldn't censor ideas like that. Tracing CP should still land you in jail, but anything else is fair game. If you don't like it, don't read it.
It is (mostly) Japanese women who will be disparately affected when (not if) manga start to be regulated USA/UK/AU style. Women will be deprived of their hard earned income and a healthy outlet for creativity.
Sidenote - westerners love to pan Japan for lacking "creativity" when in fact they actually have more of it.
That picture of the little kid getting jerked off on the car by an older woman is traced CP.
People say le Nice Floor man also traces, but they are BIG FAT MEANIE LIERS!!!
...or so I've heard, I h-haven't actually s-seen it
What would happen if Japan abolished the genital censorship laws?
>when (not if) manga start to be regulated USA/UK/AU style.
Don't you say that, anon
Don't you say that at all
>Why hasn't Japan banned child-porn comics?
Has the U.N. ever done anything useful in it's entire history. Other than siphon tax payer money and yell at Americans or in this case Japanese?
>Women will be deprived of their hard earned income and a healthy outlet for creativity.
Maybe the ones that draw porn
>Sidenote - westerners love to pan Japan for lacking "creativity" when in fact they actually have more of it.
If they're talking about light novels, they kinda have a point
Stop this meme
They probably trace using REAL CHILDREN with the human anatomy books found in Akihabara
>Sidenote - westerners love to pan Japan for lacking "creativity" when in fact they actually have more of it.
I still remember that article some faggot from Bioware wrote about the state of JRPGs and how they should get with the times. The balls some people have, literally a studio that hasn't changed it's shit story telling formula since the fucking 1990s is saying JRPGs lack originality.
I've found more original content in gaming from the Japs than the West. Very few western developers bother with new ideas anymore.
As for anime/manga it's a crap shoot. There's always like 30-40% good original series coming out along side a sea of generic shit.
>Maybe the ones that draw porn
Nothing good comes out of this other than to spite the creators and fans and the whole hobby. This is as bad as regulating "problematic" & "hate" speech that's totally en vogue outside Japan and America.
duh it's the current year!
Manga does have a wider spectrum when it comes to creativity than western comics. There's a few louder niches, but you can find everything. Western comics deal mostly with super heroes and kids who can't kick egghand balls.
>A lot of the material that draws criticism does not aspire to the literary heights of Ms Takemiya's work and critics say it exists purely for titillation.
This will never be something you should leave up to a court to decide.
Again, "Tracing CP" is a meme due to false accusations that rustle actually traced CPs found on the internets.
Why do that and why break the law when you can just go to Akihabara bookstores and pick up "human motion" books that inspires and mangaka to draw children like a pro?
This is the book that most loli artists use to creat "realistic" looking lolis
No, but I will come to hate my society even more than I already do, which is quite a bit, as will many others, eventually leading to civil strife and violence.
I agree, though there are some decent exceptions like the Sandman series. Especially pic related.
You sound like a /co/ fag saying every mango is shonen shit. Try some french comics
Check out Hellboy if you like these two
People don't (usually) get off to violence and it's not depicted as something the victim enjoys. Sex is a different ball game and associating something you shouldn't be sexualizing so strongly with sexual gratification is more concerning.
I don't necessarily assume it has a link to real sexual assault, I'd like to see some studies on whether it keeps pedos satisfied and less likely to hurt children or encourages them instead. It's a believable outcome either way. I won't pretend I haven't enjoyed
shotain the past despite feeling zero attraction to anyone like that in real life, but I also wouldn't blame anyone who refused to believe that. I'd err on the side of caution if kids were at risk too.
>Or is this initiative about outlawing depictions of anal sex and I just missed the memo?
The only change since the start of this decade is the degree of pixelation to problematic areas like full vagina and proper labeling of R18 ero-manga. Apparently there are clearly ero-manga being sold in Akiba without the R18 sticker... and that's problematic.
>not growing up reading the comic with the greatest hero of all time in.
Even when I was a little kid the way comics were illustrated just struck me as weird and ugly for some reason. Manga immediately felt natural when I encountered it so I guess I was just a freak from the start.
I'd actually like to see some people pushing this fill out a form of different manga and say which ones they think are filth and which are artistically valid, and then try to argue why the law should follow their personal opinions and no one else's.
Autistic people are freaks, though.
You can literally train your brain to be attracted to things by association if you fap to it, and for a lot of people the porn they watch has to become more extreme over time to maintain enjoyment. Sex is so much more complex than the abstract concept of violence, it involves physical reactions in your body and in the end reproduction trumps physical dominance in terms of our biological imperatives.
I'm not saying it's definitely a problem, just that it's worth looking into.
>you live here
Why don't they bomb here for once. France at least are more free and more lewd than our place.
Only good thing is humour.
>You can literally train your brain to be attracted to things by association if you fap to it, and for a lot of people the porn they watch has to become more extreme over time to maintain enjoyment
Be that as it may, remember that what we're discussing is 100% fictional and (as you agree) there is no evidence whatsoever to prove that it leads to actual pedophilia.
If there were, I would concede defeat, but, well.
Pics of cute anime girls in fundoshi are banned in France
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME??
goes in all fields
Yeah, I just think they should do some thorough studies and get evidence to either put people's minds at rest if it's not related, or do something about it if it is. It's the wests fault for not investigating it properly and backing their complaints up with research.
Why does the West love playing morality police? Is it because they still want to feel superior to other races, but it's become politically incorrect to do so by playing the race-card so they switched over to the morality-card?
Because they can't stand the idea that someone out there doesn't give a fuck. They also think of themselves as the highest authority in the world, so everyone else should obey them and behave like them.
Yeah, that's the impression that I got from reading the article.
It makes me think, why can't works that are created just to sexually arouse people have artistic merit, anyway? After all, a lot of art is created just to arouse other feelings such as sadness or happiness. Nothing gives these people the right to judge what is and isn't art.
We're trying to become "safer" at the expense of freedom.
Some time ago a rather infamous writer had to go to court here because he wrote a story. A story. With his keyboard and the writing program of his choice. Absurd, isn't it? Something like that might have happened in the soviet union, but now in Europe?
The story was basically American Psycho, but more graphic and some of the victims were children. Dozens of children brutally tortured and killed, but what was the reason he was in court? Because 1-3 of the kids were raped. Rape is apparently much more dangerous than torture and murder. I've been thinking of drawing a comic or at least some art based on it, because of all the bothered bottoms. I'm afraid of my own safety though, I could be sued as well. I feel like I should fuck off to some ohter country since this one seems to be so against freedom of expression.
Sorry for the rant, I'm really rustled at the moment.
>is this a newborn meme that i'm not aware of ?
>condemning thought crime
>bu-but he's thinking it!
It honestly fucking shocks me when people say we should reinforce hypothetical crime because they think they know what goes on in someone's head.
Let me preface this by saying I don't think it should be banned.
To an extent, I can see some reason as to why people would want it banned. Namely, desensitization to the subject. It's easy to see how war videogames can glorify violence and desensitized one to it (eg military using videogames to get one used to the notion of killing, and dehumanize enemies). Note that this doesn't mean people will be violent because of videogames; it just means that it's easier to go through with and divorce oneself from the action. We can also note that adolescent boys are largely informed of sex by pornography. Not knowing which sexual actions are considered normal/safe/healthy can be seen as a result of this.
As much as you'd like to not admit it, you cannot completely divorce your behaviors, actions, and thoughts from material you engage with intimately. Whether this manifests through use of certain phrases, small mannerisms picked up, or thoughts that refer to said material, it will happen. Even if it's fantasy material, I ensure you someone would change slightly after engaging with it many times intimately. We continue to grow and learn with age, and our current state is the result of our experiences. In particular, intimate experiences will have a lasting impression. I consider masturbation to certain material to be intimate, primarily due to the pleasure involved. What one finds arousing will undoubtedly be influenced by the pornography they watch/read. How one behaves around the subjects of the material they look at will also alter slightly.
That is to say, opponents likely don't want any desensitization to child molestation, and they especially don't want young adolescents to have a warped view of it. Furthermore, they don't want people who masturbate often to depictions of children to be around children (which extends to many places due to the ubiquity of them). At this point they find it easier to outlaw than deal with the fact that people have different tastes.
Now then, I think quite a bit of this is overblown. There are different degrees of desensitization, and I doubt reading loli would desensitize one enough for them to disassociate themself while molesting a child. Furthermore, one would have to be fairly delusional to be influenced by loli enough to to start molesting kids because of it. Those who aren't delusional and claim that it's not enough would have likely succumbed to their degenerate desires anyway, so I wouldn't blame loli for these occurrences.
If actually studies can show how legalization of loli leads to a noticeable increase in child molestation I would probably support its ban. However, such a study likely does not exist (or its methodology is invalid), so it'd be wrong to limit people's freedom.
We give moralists far too much attention and it just ends up harming freedom of speech & artistic expression. It's ironic that free speech's greatest threat is the protection it affords to oppressive and regressive ideas like restricted speech and thoughtcrime.
Some study actually showed that in countries where 2D loli/shota was legal, there was less real child abuse or something like that. I don't have access to the source at the moment, but you'll find it if you Google it.
No, "to be desu" and ":^3" are the new fresh menes on the market right now.
Estonia, you? I mean realistically I probably won't leave, except maybe for a year or two to travel the world, but that's just a dream. It's just that the the entire case came out of the blue. I've always considered this place be the bastion of free speech and expression. I believe they still haven't decided if he's guilty of producing CP or not, but the fact that it even got so far as to end up in court is fucking insane to me. There are even plenty of fanfiction writers and such here who write the same kind of stuff, and like a quarter of the population seems to know what Boku no Pico is.
>Why does the West love playing morality police?
That's how most rules throughout history have been, imposing morals and life guidelines on the masses. It's just an effective way to get people to walk single file.
I do hope you're not implying that conservatives do not try to push moral standards on people.
All sides do that, there is no faction in this world that does not have some sort of moral standard.
What I don't understand about the UN is they'll give countries like Indonesia a pass, who are practically committing genocide in West Papua, yet Japan are terrible for "committing crimes against fictional characters?" Someone does not have their priorities straight.
Back to /pol/
>somehow they suceed
>without their usual outlet for hatred, normalfags direct all their anger at 2D porn
>loli manga becomes less socially acceptable than pizza
I don't understand how, but this sounds like something that can happen one day. I don't want to live in this world anymore.
Most actual child abuse rings are run by groups of powerful men who all cover each others' asses, so all the UN and these NGOs can do is spin their wheels and whinge about pointless shit like manga and violence against women in video games.
Because they know that Indonesia will just ignore them. The Japanese however have an image to maintain and are forced to listen to the powerless idiots of the UN.
I'm not seeing any evidence of Japan doing anything about it or even caring. The few responses to it I've seen have amounted to HAHA UN SO SILLY.
Lets hope the Olympics don't change things.
I said listen, not take action. They'd be insane to actually do anything in response to the UN's whining about Japanese art.
Yikes, people only care about issues when they're pertinent to them, it's almost as if /a/ isn't a hivemind
That's the funny thing. The article author has a stance against sexuality in manga and is using strategic buzzwords like "exploitation" but the actual content of the article blows away his stance with common sense.
>implying it's not true on average
I don't really understand why it matters which is literary highest though. To say porn is okay as long as it's art is hypocrisy (though hardly a new one). The BBC article just goes on a tangent, it's not really discussing the actual issue, or even considering why it makes the distinction between ordinary porn and stuff like Kazetoki.
>the rights of the child should not be "sacrificed at the expense of powerful and lucrative businesses". She points out that "any pornographic representation of a child," real or not, "constitutes child pornography".
>rights of the child
Hell no! No one has the right to determine that. And Pornography is an art.
This. I'm kind of surprised with how I've never seen something like this image with a loli in it and "ceci n'est pas un enfant" written under it.
They want 2D CP to be banned because it's disgusting to them. But you can't ban something merely because it's disgusting. So they bring another plausible reason that it helps real 3D child abuse. Only it's not. There's no evidence 2D CP causes pedo crimes and Japan's sexual crime rate is far lower than those western countries'.
>quarter of the population seems to know what Boku no Pico is
This guy should get a lifetime monument in the center of Tallinn.
A ban on loli won't succeed because if loli is banned people will want shota banned and the women don't want shota banned and then the men won't have loli banned.
And even on the opposite end, a lot of women like to self-insert as loli and lots of men wants to self-insert as shota.
This alongside purely economical reasons tied to the strength of the industry itself, is why it has never come to pass before. The furthest anyone ever got was to make explicit content less explicit in public areas such as giant banners and public day time television.