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One Piece is the most overrated piece of fiction I’ve ever

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One Piece is the most overrated piece of fiction I’ve ever read. It’s mostly about a roaming crew of do-gooder clichés that travel the high seas. Each character has a dream (which they will never achieve because this cash cow will never end) and of course a tragic backstory to go with it. One Piece is somehow popular while having the worst character designs among shonens, includes countless scenes of characters sobbing like crybabies, and will drag on to the point no one will care anymore. Honestly, if you want a shonen that doesn’t insult your intelligence and make you feel like you’re reading something written by a smarter than average 10 year old, then don’t pick this up.

Story: While there are some decent dramatic moments here and there, they’re almost always forced as much as possible and accompanied by over the top water faucet tears or something else as corny that makes you want to punch a hole in the wall. Not only that, but it’s the same thing each time.

Straw Hat crew arrives at an island, the people are friendly but something is wrong. We then meet the villain who is doing stereotypical villain things. Luffy hotheadedly decides he is gonna save the day and starts yelling. Luffy takes on the boss and his crew mates take on the underlings. They are stronger than expected, but through the power of friendship and encouragement from the people of the island they will themselves to victory with their new attacks they just invented. With everything said and done, celebration is had, and the Straw Hats leave as the citizens thank them and promise to always remember their kindness. Repeat for hundreds of chapters. If that sounds boring to you, then good, it’s very lame.
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>>134413954

Let me add that people harp on about how great the world building is, but the world is just a nonsensical LSD theme park with clouds you can stand on and other magical stuff that never gets a good explanation and you’re just expected to eat it up and suspend your disbelief. Again, that’s fine for a little kids book, but if you want a story with a fantasy world that’s well constructed then this is not it.

Art: Not much needs to be said here, One Piece’s art hardly looks like elaborate at all, but rather doodles from a 3rd grader’s math textbook. This makes sense as it’s drawn for young children, but if you’re not a young child there are shonen that don’t have crappy art you might want to check out.

Character: Characters are terribly developed and never really change. Usopp remains a cowardly person forever, Sanji remains a scrawny Johnny Bravo knock off that is impossible to take seriously, Luffy remains an unlikable annoying man child "who always stands up to the bad guy with no fear" (that's all his character amounts to though, lol and there is no originality), Zoro is your cookie cutter “badass” character, etc the characters are bad, have no actual depth, and are uninteresting.

Enjoyment: Clearly some people enjoy this, but I certainly didn’t. I read it in bursts, people kept trying to drill into my head how great it was so I kept going back, forced myself to read another 200 or so chapters, then got sick and put it back down. Now I write this review to tell you how lousy I think this manga is.

Overall: One Piece is poor. Yes, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Death Note, and many others are great shonen stories that I encourage people to read and enjoy.
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Well can you blame Oda? He knows a cash cow when he sees one and the fans eat this shit up.
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Tell me something I don't already know.
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>>134414006

The worst is that they come up with a whole mythos about him being a hardworking mangaka, working to near exhaustion 20 hours every days and only sleeping 3 hours.

These are false rumors being circulated to faciliate a cult of personality toward the author and further radicalize the core fanbase into encouraging their friends and relatives to buy One Piece products.

The truth is that the man is rich beyond compare, has as many assistants as he wants working for him and can basically relegate the entire work to them whenever he feels like to.

He even takes a break every month, which is something regular shonen artists who actually bust their asses off could ever dream of.
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I give this thread an 8 out of 8
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>>134413954
>>134413996
tl;dr
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>>134414315

The picture is referring to your post.
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>>134414358

>Overall: One Piece is poor. Yes, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Death Note, and many others are great shonen stories that I encourage people to read and enjoy.
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>>134413954
>cliche, simplistic, but doesn't stray away from itself and is thoroughly enjoyable as a comfy, long as fuck experience, and is quite "vanilla", while being extremely popular in Japan
So is this the Dragon Quest of manga?
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I do not like thing.
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>>134414430

One Piece is hardly what you describe. It regularly tries to be tragic and switches the tones without notion of emotional consistency.
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Not sure why you're harping on so much about this, OP. I like One Piece because of
>interesting powers
>cool fight scenes
>humorous
>tons of interesting characters
>no romance weighing it down
It's not rocket science. The world building of One Piece isn't exactly great, by the way. I never thought it was. A lot of islands are suddenly out of nowhere and each have their own unique customs and culture. That's not good world building.

Everything else I said, however, is true about the series.
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>>134413954
>One Piece is the most overrated piece of fiction I’ve ever read.
That would be Ulysses. Its top-tier shonen and pretty good otherwise. Only thing i think really needs to improve is artistic detail.
>>134414012
Fuck you, heres your 8
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>>134414767
>Ulysses
That triggered me
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>>134414749
>cool fight scenes
>One Piece
Wat? Fights in OP were always pointless and shitty
At least Bleach and Naruto had somewhat interesting fights here and there, every OP battle is dogshit.
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>>134414749
This image is retarded. You could also apply the powerlevel bullshit to OP's last image.
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>>134414925
Objectively wrong. Watching Luffy fly in to stop Zoro getting shot is cool as hell. Buggy splitting up to fight Luffy is entertaining. Luffy turning into a balloon to escape Smoker is awesome too.

The list goes on.
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>>134414749
>cool fight scenes

The only one that comes to mind is the Luffy vs Blueno fight.
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>>134414749
>That bias in that picture

The level of delusion, it's incredible.

One Piece is going full power level showcase. Whoever has the most haki points wins.
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>>134414749
>hating on Soul Society arc

Plebbety pleb tastes.
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>>134414955
That's extremely subjective though. Anyone could just as easily claim it was boring or stupid.
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>>134415271
Well yeah but I assume you'd be used to that sort of thing seeing as how you're on a Bangladeshi basket weaving imageboard?
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>>134414925
please post examples and reasons to validate your opinion
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>>134413954
The problem with OP and a lot of others shitty shonens is how much they reuse the same stereotypes and cliches. MC is a copy of goku, plot is just the baddie of the week with a hint of real plot every 20 volumes, fights are stupid and repetitive "crew splits, everyone finds an enemy of his level, at first they are beaten but then they get angry, yell some shit and win". The powers are also quite shitty, in the end wins who punches harder.
The characters are even worse, MC is your usual retarded faggot with "muh ambition", he is the son of some legenday badass and for some reason he is always the special guy, he has the strongest and rarest ambition, the hottest girl in the world fall in love with him and he wins every fight by yelling shit about friends.
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>>134415177
i don't like haki either, but i don't think we'll ever go full power levels like DBZ or Bleach
we've come close with Fukuro's ability, but luckily Oda ditched that idea soon
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>>134415386
>MC is a dumb teenager or manchild with a heart of gold
>Loves to eat a lot
>Loves to fight
>Wants to make as much friends as possible
>Gets pissed off when the villain hurts them
>Adults overshadowed by teenagers

Perfect formula for lonely teenagers rejected from the popular middle and highschool cliques I guess.
I've had an itch for a while that /a/ is getting more and more frequented by underages from various communities like reddit or specific forums (sometime admitting to being one to hilarious effect). The One Piece and Naruto thread are definitively the main gateway for them.
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>>134415440
Not really. Fighting styles don't matter anymore since Enies Lobby. It's all about who's physically stronger than the other one, and haki is directly tied to that. There's still devil fruits but they're getting more and more overshadowed.
Pure physical fights have gone to shit. Now all Luffy does with his fruit is get more firepower through some bullshit physics and hit his opponent hard.
Any of the original martial style relevance is completely out of the window.

Look at Logias. No longer trying to look for seastone or elemental weakness, Logias are essentially an added skin on top of your haki attacks to make them look pretty.
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> Implying Usopp didn't grow a huge pair of balls while fighting Luffy for the Going Marry
> Implying Robin didn't open to the crew after the events on Enies Lobby

Also tell me how the power of friendship helped them at the Sabaody. They got their ass spanked to death over there. And even Marineford, probably the worst One Piece arc, didn't end up so well foe our dear Luffy.

And about the world, it's purposely done to be fable-like. This isn't hard fiction, One piece keeps itself folkloristic and "poor" in the tradition of Oda's inspiration, the early Toriyama with his classic Dragonball. So what if it keeps itself "childish"? Does it make it bad? Read Saint-Exupèry's "The Little Prince". You don't need something to be "mature" to make it good.
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>>134415837
> Implying Robin didn't open to the crew after the events on Enies Lobby

She opened and then she became gradually mundane. There was something funny about a former major villain being on board with them but now she's almost indistinguishable from the other civilians.
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>>134415920
She's always been konda ambiguous. She kept her black humour. I really can't see what you mean by "mundane". Well, actually, i do, but i don't see it as a flaw.
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>>134413996
>Attack on Titan, Death Note, and many others are great shonen stories that I encourage people to read and enjoy.

Is this thread bait or ?
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>>134415616
Luffy never used any "martial style" to fight, it was always about exploiting the versatility of his fruit
and that's still the case
as for Logias, there are simply too many around for Luffy to find and exploit their each weakness
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>>134415508
Yeah Luffy is probably the worst thing in One piece, along with Edgy Zoro and the stairway of death
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>>134413954
Uhh no SAO or SnK is more overrated.
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>>134415837
No, both Usopp and Robin remain the same, this is another one of One piece flaws, the characters.
Look at the crew, they are unidimensional characters, they are given some little moments of drama but after that they always behave the same, they are always just comic relief, Usopp even after all the shit he passed, even after the years of training remains the same weak idiot, and Robin is just there, doing almost nothing all the time, Oda gives them some little moments but in the end they always remain the same. This is why One piece is nothing more than an average shonen
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>>134413954
I like One Piece but I can't help but feel that everything suddenly became lackluster the moment it hit the timeskip.

The momentum just plain died down and the villains/conflict are just a recycled mish-mash of things that came before (I'm looking at you Doflamingo).
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>>134416152
>it was always about exploiting the versatility of his fruit

Bullshit, it's just the author that pulls pseudo scientific shit just to make Luffy punch harder, because in the end every new technique it's just a power up that makes Luffy stronger and faster, not different from a Kaioh-ken or the super sayian transformation.
If you want strategy and well used powers read Jojo.
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>>134416083
I like One Piece but FMA, AOT and DN are all better.
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>>134415837
The series doesn't have to be "mature" but especially after the emotional trauma of Marineford, you'd think that Luffy would become a little more mature, not only because after the time skip he's grown into an adult (physically speaking) but also because the experiences he has been through have served as a stark reminded that the world isn't as happy-go-lucky as he'd pretend it is.

Instead, despite the ordeals each character has been through, they show little real growth, rendering the time skip largely pointless - yes I realise that the purpose is to act as an abridged training arc but two years is a long time but the fact that the characters have changed little -in some cases even reverting, undoing character development, because of the competition for panel time means that Oda has to rely increasingly on character cliches to keep characters relevant rather than giving them proper focus - makes it feel as if they've sat on their thumbs for two years. It doesn't really matter if they can "punch harder", if it isn't accompanied by mental maturing, then it's hard for the reader to really empathise with the change that has taken place.

People praise Oda a lot for his foresight as well but if he was really concerned with writing an epic, with compelling characters, you think he'd have the sense to introduce less and actually focus on the journey of those who already exist in print. Even the strawhat crew is bloated at this point, I mean look at Jojo or Hunter x Hunter by comparison, each arc, there are only half a dozen "main" characters and maybe three "core" characters, One Piece has nine before you even introduce side characters. And even when he got rid of half the crew in Dressrossa, most of the crew only appeared for a chapter or so at a time, so more focus could be spread on a bunch of seemingly inconsequential characters. It doesn't matter if they appear again down the line, if they aren't interesting, they aren't worth time.
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>One Peace Sucks
welcome aboard!
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>>134416555
Underrated post.

I feel that Oda should have capitalized on the break in the formula that happened from Impel Down to Marineford arc and actually used those events as a key influence that would push the Straw Hats to have some real growth while spurring on the more organic narrative.

But nope, instead we get the same old tired formula.
>>
It's an often nonsensical, imaginative series that loves to make fun of shonen as much as it adheres to it. It has a diverse main cast that interact well with each other and a massive world full of mysterious and ridiculous lands and people while still being grounded with the problems common to humanity.

Even in it's most serious moments Oda isn't afraid to throw a curveball or joke in there, and the humour and silliness often makes the characters feel more human.

But the entire opening post is blatant bait that looks like it's written by a teenager who visited tvtropes recently
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>>134414925
Sure m8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YpjYLHlg6o
>>
This entire review is from a butthurt Narutard.

http://myanimelist.net/profile/Krystopher/reviews
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>>134416951
>One Piece Overall Rating: 1
>Naruto Overall Rating: 9

kekd
>>
>>134416951
This is why I hate the OP hatebase: they are essentially Narutards who hate a better written serie.
>>
You got it right until you mentioned Naruto. One Piece is times better than naruto with its darkness sasuke itachi faggotry.
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>>134416951
That's clearly a fake profile though. I remember seeing that copypasta a few months ago and someone linked to a different MAL profile who belonged to the guy who supposedly wrote that review, i think his name was thatanimesnob or something similar.
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>>134416083
The exact same issues you have with One Piece works just as well with AoT minus the repetitiveness of the overall general plot from island to island.

The art is shit, the characters are incredibly flat and boring, the world is just as nonsensical (lmao titans are light as a feather when they die!), there's way too many "super badass elite" characters, Levi's fate being retconned because of the shitty anime, Eren's pathetic excuse of "development", the entire shift from titans to IDS HABBEDING /pol/ plot. Fuck man, the entire thing has gotten horribly stale.

I hope when you recommend Death Note you make them stop after L's death.

Liking One Piece has nothing to do with taste, but the sense of nostalgia. You can enjoy shit meant for young teenagers even if you're in your 50s. That's the entire point of maturity. You're free to dislike it, and I'm sorry some fanatics shoved it down your throat. It's not perfect, but it's still impressive.
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>>134417501
Or probably people that watches and reads more than your usual stereotypated shonenshit, but you OPfags probably know just OP, naruto, fairy tail and bleach.
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>>134413954
You are ignoring the most important fact, it's target audience is those 10-14 year olds. It's popularity is due to it's appeal to younger audiences and older audiences that grew up reading it. Naturally it won't be appealing to most people around their early 20s who are watching it for the first time. Also the reason it's fans are so vocal is that they are young. There are very few groups that will be so vocal and one sided about what they like as middle schoolers who haven't really learned how to even think on an adequate level yet.
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>>134415177
It's literally ambition. Will vs will.

Zoro isn't going "lel my haki power level is higher than urs", he's saying Pica can only be uncut if his ambition is greater than Zoro's. Which it wasn't.

Almost ever case of haki falling through is because the user falters in their beliefs, if even for a second.
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>>134417993
>using a Narutard's review
>having read more manga and watched more anime
Sorry, but the whole argument fell flat when you resort to somebody else review instead of writting it yourself. The next time you try to shitpost you may be luckier.
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>>134418036
Underrated comment.
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>>134418489
>i did
Yes, you copied from somebody else again.
>The fact that naruto is shit doesn't make one piece less shittier
Yes, it does.
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>>134418489
>a lot of people
You mean from /rk9/? Because one of them tried to raid us the last month.
>>
The series doesnt have to be mature to gather an legion of fans

Look at my little poney, that shit is made for 5 year old children and 90% of the fans are grown up man childs
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>>134418489

Copying and pasting someone's shitty review doesn't mean you did faggot.

Why am I even responding this shitty thread will be locked soon anyway.
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>>134418541
>>134418742
I just wrote what i think fucktards, the fact that even the review says the same things is because that are objectively one piece's big flaws.
>>
Top 3 most overrated animu's are OP, HxH, and One Joke Man
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>>134413954
You are right, but you can say the same about any other manga out there.
If you like manga, it is one of the best in that regard, if you dont, then what the fuck are you doing here in the first place?
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>>134418888
World building, art, enjoyment are not definitely the biggest flaws of One Piece. Try again, pissbrain.
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>>134418604
have you watched the early episodes? that shit was intense, they may be for 5 year old, but the theme is way above that.
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>>134415177
>implying your hateboner for One Piece isn't biased.
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>>134416527
>AOT and DN are all better
Not really.
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>>134415177
the thing about haki is that it is let unstranslated and it gives misconseptions, it has a double meaning, he literary said, "if your will is stronger than mine"
>>
None of your criticisms matter.

The only thing that matters is that every non-Luffy fight is boring as fuck, and so the build-up to the big bad of every arc is excruciating.

It's just a shitty series. Read HxH instead.
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>>134414315
>comment

Didn't this used to say "post"?

What happened?
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>>134413954
my thoughts exactly
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>>134419028
I never talked about world building and art, also the enjoyment is totally subjective. I wrote about the fact that it's repetitive and stereotypated, that the MC and the characters are shit, there is a hint of plot every 20 volumes and the fights are always "wins who punches harder". Read what the fuck I wrote instead of sperging about COPYPASTED REVIEW. OP fans are really retarded kids that can't make a decent argumentation
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>>134417975
>vlc
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>>134418036
i was 18 when i started to watch it. am i a manchild?
>>
One Piece is like a 10 hour math rock album
At first it seems with how much is going on and how it all comes together, but maintaining this level of excitement for 45 minutes is already tough enough. After a while all of the unique ideas it had just repeat and meander along without feeling any different, and instead of ending like a good album should it just drones on indefinitely for hours and hours until you can no longer take it.
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>>134413954
let me guess, youre a bernie sanders supporter
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>>134419485
Hook, line, sinker
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>>134419722
At least you're not using MPV.
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>>134418036
>Someone was stupid enough to reply seriously to silly bait

Unlimited Upboat!
>>
It IS overrated but in terms of shounenshit it is one of the best and if you consider it has been running for 999 years it does bring some good attention.

btw, post time skip OP is shit
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>>134413954
>>134413996
I awalys said that the people who hate OP are a bunch of retards. And it still is true.
>>
>>134419228
I disagree. Zoro and sanji has good fights as well during pre-skip.
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>>134420031

This, basically.

Lots of actual problems and flaws with the series are being brought up in good detail in this thread, but are being completely ignored by the OP fanbase, even if they had nothing to do with the OP.

It used to be a fun series with good threads on /a/, but since the series started going to downhill the only ones left are the hardcore dicksuckers. Try to talk about any of the valid issues wrong with the series and you just get the fuck shitposted out of you, leading to a more and more insular community. Look at what happened to OP threads on /a/, tell me that isn't what happened.
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>>134420609
It's hard to criticize One Piece with people when all the critics are from people/trolls who hate in the first place, never read/watch it. The OP is a prime example who comes in those threads just to shitpost.
https://desustorage.org/a/search/image/zvUXcdvIyUMl0szRwh_zdA/
>>
>complaints about one piece
>watch degenerate shows like oreimo and monogatari series

Fuck off back to reddit
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>>134420789
>being underage
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>>134419228
>Read HxH instead.
Every time.
>>
Alabasta was peak
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>>134413996
>Overall: One Piece is poor. Yes, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Death Note, and many others are great shonen stories that I encourage people to read and enjoy.
almost got me
>>
>>134420789
>One Piece is the most overrated piece of fiction I’ve ever read. It’s mostly about a roaming crew of do-gooder clichés that travel the high seas. Each character has a dream (which they will never achieve because this cash cow will never end) and of course a tragic backstory to go with it. One Piece is somehow popular while having the worst character designs among shonens, includes countless scenes of characters sobbing like crybabies, and will drag on to the point no one will care anymore. Honestly, if you want a shonen that doesn’t insult your intelligence and make you feel like you’re reading something written by a smarter than average 10 year old, then don’t pick this up.
Who are you quoting?
>>
>Attack on Titan, Death Note, and many others are great shonen stories that I encourage people to read and enjoy

Every opinion you have has just been invalidated.
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>>134413954
what else did you expect from shounenshit? it's a manga for kids and retarded eleven adults
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>>134415508
That's why I love Air Gear.
Ikki is an asshole
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>>134416304
>edgay meme

While you were baiting, you admitted to be an underaged fag. You need to be 18 to post here.
>>
>>134416304

>Zoro
>edgy

I hate people who talk shit about a series they never read.
>>
>>134416304
since when zoro is edgy
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>>134413954
>>134413996
Stale pasta, OP.
>>
>>134414133
Wow, you know Oda personally!? Please, tell us more about him, anon-kun.
>>
>>134414133
>hating Goda
>>>/fategeneral/
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>>134414133

You are as full of shit as the people who claim otherwise. Nobody knows the real circumstances behind his breaks.
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>>134420473
I quit after Skypiea so maybe I didn't get to see those "good fights".
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>>134413954
didnt read all the blog but you should kill yourself
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>>134422273
AoT and DN are shit but he's right about FMA.
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>>134419228
>The only thing that matters is that every non-Luffy fight is boring as fuck

No
>>
So....anyone here into some Dragon Ball? I hear much character development happens there
>>
>>134418036
this

>>134420019
>le bait

found the underage
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>>134425282
>Goda
>proving me right
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>>134413954
>One Piece is the most overrated piece of fiction

thats star wars
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>>134431122
>>>/fate/
go and stay go
>>
>>134413996
>Attack on Titan
>Great story
Opinion disregarded. Stay casual faggot.
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>>134413954
>>
>>134431348
You need to be over 18 to post on this board.
>>
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All these assblasted faggots mad their favorite mango isn't as successful as One Piece
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>>134431971
>>>/fate/
>>
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>>134413996
>that pic
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>>134413954
>>134413996
>>
>>134432574
>OPfags thinking that success has anything to do with quality storytelling
>being this butthurt

Nothing to do with popularity. I love One Piece and even I think it's getting pretty shitty lately ever since the timeskip.
>>
>>134433792
That's your opinion though. I think it's still very enjoyable especially the current arc and I'm sure a lot of people think so too. Projecting your opinions as fact and claiming that they signify what's quality and what's not, while others' opinions don't matter for whatever reason, means that you're the one projecting.

Fact is OP is still very successful, and still has a lot of fans, and is still viewed positively to the general public. Like the MCU franchise, Star wars, or Harry Potter, you could have whatever opinions you want on it, and claim it has shit writing or is the shittiest series ever. Doesn't change the general public's view that they still think it's good. It hit the right cord for its attended audience and even beyond that. It did, and is doing, something right to maintain an audience that large even after all this time. And whether YOU personally like it or not doesn't really matter, unfortunately for you.
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>>134413954

Best OP design.
>>
>>134434680
>Projecting your opinions as fact and claiming that they signify what's quality and what's not, while others' opinions don't matter for whatever reason, means that you're the one projecting.
>Projecting
There was literally nothing in my post where I claimed my opinion was fact dumbass.
>>
>>134435323
Then why are you saying it has nothing to do with success? You're saying the opinions of the majority means nothing, while your little assessment does. Weren't you implying One Piece doesn't have quality storytelling because YOU didn't think so?

Again, even after gaining so much popularity it still maintains a positive reputation to the general public, unlike series like Twilight or Fifty shades. And again whether you think the story-telling is shit, a majority still enjoys the way Oda delivers his stories, so I'd say in this case, his success does say something about his ability to craft a story and present it.
>>
>>134413954
Still the best shounen in history.
>>
>>134436343
Do you know what ad populum is?
>>
>>134436646
If One Piece didn't maintain it's popularity for almost 10 years now, then I'd agree. Things that gain success through bandwagoning usually die down or get more negative feedback than positive after a few years.
>>
>>134421669
>being a fucking retard
>>
tbqh fampai, one piece is pree good, but not >>134436572. hxh will forever be the best until togashi comes back and fucks it up.
>>
>>134436916
You're a fucking idiot and should stop posting before you embarass yourself more. You clearly don't know what that means.
It doesn't mean bandwagoning. It means saying "well a lot of people think x so they must be right".
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>>134433792
You're the first person in the whole thread to mention success having anything to do with quality, cockmuncher.
>>
>>134437067
>hxh
>literally only one and a half good arcs
>>
>>134437067
HxH is not even as good as YuGiOh.
>>
>>134437124
I know, you retard. Meaning that if that was the only case people thought it was good, then the series would've gotten as popular as it is through bandwagoning (cause if the series is objectively fucking shit then how the fuck would it have gotten so successful in the first place? let alone maintain that success.). If not, then you can use the ad populum argument for any fucking popular thing and claim everything is shit because m-muh ad populum. That makes your ad populum argument completely pointless, if you won't allow anything to refute it.
>>
>>134437867
>then you can use the ad populum argument for any fucking popular thing and claim everything is shit because m-muh ad populum
Again you clearly have no fucking idea what you're talking about. It doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it can't be used for saying it's good.
Am i being baited or are you actually this retarded?
>>
>>134437383
The post it was replying to mentioned popularity in a thread discussing about storytelling quality as if it had any relevance at all. Take your shitty reading comprehension and get the fuck out of here..
>>
>>134436343
I don't need the masses to tell me if I should think that the work is good. To argue "b-but so many people like it even to this day" is just plain stupid when this entire thread is literally about discussing the intricacies of what makes OP good or bad.
>>
>>134438137
But most of the arguments here are subjective based, especially the one I started this conversation with.
>I think it's shitty now
>I think it's boring
>Characters are just caricatures
>no character development
>all the arcs are the same
All this shit isn't even true if you want to discuss "intricacies". The only factual complaint is that Oda follows a repetitive 'structure' at times, but that's like faulting the Sherlock Holmes series or the Odyssey for having similar structures for each mystery or island arc they go through. With that same logic you could fault the whole action series genre for biting off each other or something.
>>
>>134438137
>when this entire thread is literally about discussing the intricacies of what makes OP good or bad.
where
>>
>>134438507
>only factual complaint

You can't be this retarded right? You're basically generalizing legitimate arguments with "I don't agree therefore this opinion is subjective and untrue". Then you'd readily apply their arguments in the most simplified way on "the whole action series genre" and think that makes them wrong? Get the fuck out with that strawman.

Fucking right they're subjective, but that doesn't mean that they're not bringing up legitimate points of criticism about the series.
>>
>>134439165
>Fucking right they're subjective
That's why I'm saying the fucking popularity argument works in this sense. What you think are criticisms might not be for others because some people might like the fact that One Piece, unlike a lot of other series, stays true to what its been for all these years. It's fucking subjective. You can say you're getting bored with it because of the repetitive story structure, but that says nothing objective about the story-telling. The structures might be similar but no two arcs follow the same plot which is how Oda keeps his stories diverse. The fact that there are plenty of people that still enjoy means that your subjective complaint is just that. A subjective minority complaint.
>>
>>134439524
>It's fucking subjective
>says nothing objective about the story-telling

>literally arguing with subjectivity while positing objectivity about the storytelling

I'm done. I'm an OPfag, but if this level of cancerous retardation is what has become of the fandom then I'd gladly avoid ever being called or thought as such.
>>
>>134439738
What the fuck are you talking about? I never said any of this was objective, not even my views. I'm arguing why the popularity argument can work when faggots here are arguing over subjective complaints anyway. If you can pose an argument that's not subjective or factually wrong then argue it, and I'll have nothing to say.
>>
>>134439738
>posts green text that makes no sense
>excuses himself
>ad hominem attack
Sasuga fa.m
>>
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>>134413954
>>
>>134439959
>If you can pose an argument that's not subjective or factually wrong then argue it, and I'll have nothing to say.
You'd claim otherwise and yet you're still at it with this BS while thinking that your popularity argument has any ground because "muh subjectivity"?

But hey I'll humor you. Tell me, was there any thematic payoff in having Luffy beat Doflamingo the way he did? Because there was none other than "let's beat the main bad guy just cause it's OP formula for Luffy to do so". For a guy that was presented with a thought-provoking set of beliefs/ideals, even built up with numerous threads throughout the series, Oda essentially wasted him and turned his defeat into a mere stepping stone for "more to come". Instead of actually having someone oppose him in an ideological sense (which is exactly how his character narrative was being presented) we just get Luffy yelling at him like a caveman while Doflamingo spouted beautiful poetry. When you have a really long saga (Punk Hazard/Dressrosa) and a huge buildup all the way back pre-Timeskip, you better damn well deliver than simply recycling Crocodile and Enel's schtick. That's not even accounting for the ass-pulls with regards to how his powerset kept changing or how he stops using some of his abilities (hell the most expected use of his abilities in turning nakama against one another is completely ignored). The entire arc hinged on how the good guys dealt with Doflamingo's ideological beliefs and upbringing. Law could have easily been used to settle this since he had legitimate stakes and buildup that's way above a characters like Vivi. But no, Luffy HAS to deal with Doflamingo, and what seemed like the perfect antithesis against Doflamingo's beliefs ended up being nothing more than a power-level showcase of Luffy's abilities with poor choices in narrative direction to cause a false sense of drama (Bellamy, Law, and Viola/Rebecca come into mind).

>>134440205
Literal cancer with nothing to contribute.
>>
>>134427158
You sure are hard to please. During arlong park and arabasta zoro and sanji have decent fights against their respective opponent.
>>
>>134413954
>crew of do-gooders
propably replying to pasta, but I hope not because I stopped reading there and all the effort you typed into your epic trolling went to waste. Do your research next time.
>>
>>134440485
dawww you made it all alone?
>>
this image >>134414749 happened before this >>134415177
>>
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I miss Monet...
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>>134440497
>The entire arc hinged on how the good guys dealt with Doflamingo's ideological beliefs and upbringing. Law could have easily been used to settle this since he had legitimate stakes and buildup that's way above a characters like Vivi.
This is all assuming Oda is done with Doffy's character, and assuming his blackmailing plot point and hatred towards the CDs will never come back, especially for the final war. And why would Law defeating Doffy be any different? What did you expect? A fucking turnaround where Doffy gets talked out of his psycho crazy superiority complex to realize all his actions were wrong? Sorry to tell you, but Doffy was a fucking psycho even with his fucked up backstory. Oda was able to portray him as one, with Roci as a counter-example of why we shouldn't really feel bad for him. And even after he was captured, he's still ufufu-ing it up in jail like a madman. This isn't fucking Naruto and Obito and I sure as hell glad it wasn't like that. His lifelong ideological beliefs and upbringing aren't going to be changed just like that, especially not by someone like Law who was harboring questionable beliefs himself. And Luffy is never about telling someone if they're right or wrong or lecturing them about their morality. If someone pisses him off, he'll beat them up. That's it. Doffy messed with a lot of people Luffy cared about and challenged his ideals about freedom. It might piss him off but he doesn't give a fuck about changing Doffy's mind or character. He never has with any of this previous villains so I don't know why you thought he'd suddenly turn into a moralfag now.

>poor choices in narrative direction to cause a false sense of drama (Bellamy, Law, and Viola/Rebecca come into mind).
And you talk like all these characters didn't have their own character arc that they went through. Basically you're excusing the whole fucking plot of Dressrosa because you didn't like the Doffy v Luffy fight.
>>
>>134441347
No because Gear 4th happened after the Zoro vs Pica fight.
>>
>>134441889
>muh strawmans
Holy shit, you can't be this narrow-minded right? How many works have you actually read where ideological clash =/= Naruto's talk no justu? It's clear to me that you're not willing to engage in an intelligent discussion so I won't even bother with this BS.

>And you talk like all these characters didn't have their own character arc that they went through. Basically you're excusing the whole fucking plot of Dressrosa because you didn't like the Doffy v Luffy fight.
Nope, the rest of their own "character arc" were also horrible aside from Law. The fact that Luffy vs Doffy sucked was the nail in the coffin.
>>
>>134442209
>Nope, the rest of their own "character arc" were also horrible aside from Law.
Hate to use this argument again, but this shit is subjective and you know it.

>Holy shit, you can't be this narrow-minded right? How many works have you actually read where ideological clash =/= Naruto's talk no justu?
Then tell me what were you expecting from this clash? What thematic ideological clash were you expecting from a guy with a massive superiority complex that harbored so much hatred for the CDs that he wanted to destroy the world that they built? This doesn't sound like the ideologies of grade A psycho to you? If you want to make an argument then make one instead of resorting to ad hominems every fucking time.
>>
>all these shonenfags rallying to Oda's defense

Fuck off, whiteknights
>>
>>134427158
>quitting during the best arc
>>
>>134442440
You do realize that Crocodile vs Luffy was a well-written example of an ideological clash? For a character that was literally built, characterized, and foreshadowed with such traits, Doflamingo's fight amounts to nothing but a purely physical one. It's not even a well-written physical fight unlike Luffy vs Lucci in which there was a lot of care and focus devoted to it.

>If you want to make an argument then make one instead of resorting to ad hominems every fucking time
How about you stop constantly using strawmen to form your arguments and throwing your retarded logic of "subjectivity" first?
>>
>>134419228
>Want not boring fights
>Read HxH instead
???
>>
>>134442680
>Crocodile vs Luffy was a well-written example of an ideological clash
>because I say so
>>
>>134442837
Have you ever heard of having opinions? Are you some dumb kid who literally has to say "in my opinion" every fucking time you make an argument just to excuse yourself? Because that's literally what you're doing right now.
>>
>>134413954
Literally EVERY popular work is overrated to somebody.

Fuck off you're not special
>>
>>134442680
>You do realize that Crocodile vs Luffy was a well-written example of an ideological clash?
That's really not a fair example, because literally Luffy challenging Crocodile to a physical fight was basically challenging Crocodiles beliefs. I'm asking you how would an ideological clash even work with a psycho with psychotic ideologies. There is no reasoning with someone like Doffy or challenging him with other ideologies other than freeing everyone under his reign which Luffy did when he physically freed everyone from Doffy's birdcage.
>>
>>134442907
That's not me. I'm the one you've been arguing with this whole time
See >>134443056
>>
>>134442680
>a well-written physical fight unlike Luffy vs Lucci in which there was a lot of care and focus devoted to it.

I don't think so, it also split into a lot of chapters and just Luffy getting thrashed for a long time as usual.

Rob Lucci had a rather limited move set almost entirely based on the Rokushiki technique, which got tiring to see since all the CP9 before had already used the 6 styles. If you like DBZ-style spamming of the same punches and kicks where each of the blows does little and villain hardly changes/adapts their style, I can see why that's their jam. But Oda doesn't seem to have liked it, and never wrote such a fight for Luffy again.
>>
Naruto is the better shounen series, DBZ hit shit levels with super, One Piece keeps recycling same good guys vs same bad guys formula, Bleach pretty much died after the Ginjo arc
>Nurutu
Yes, Naruto
>>
>>134443212
Fuck off
>>
>>134443056
The character may be psychotic but in a world full of pirates his ideology isn't actually a crazy or stupid one especially how it's thematically relevant to Whitebeard's death. There were multiple (read: better) possibilities in how Oda could have dealt with this in a more thoughtful way, instead he went for the most jarringly cliched one in terms with literal shounen powerups. I'm not saying that "powerup" battles are inherently bad, but when you have such a long-foreshadowed villain with as many influence and threads connecting to them, you better damn well deliver on the finale.

>I'm asking you how would an ideological clash even work with a psycho with psychotic ideologies
Aside from what I just mentioned, I'm not here to write fan fiction for you. I'm criticizing the work, no more no less.
>>
>>134443168
>But Oda doesn't seem to have liked it, and never wrote such a fight for Luffy again.
Yes and in turn, he went for asspulls with Doflamingo instead, which only served to show his limits in attempting a fight with "diversity".
>>
I'm glad dressrosa is receiving good criticism. The entire arc was a laugh against the viewer. 97 chapters full of filler worthy content and Doffy is beaten in 3 chapters.
>>
>>134443553
have you never read one piece before? the main baddie always gets defeated in a few chapters.
>>
>>134443553
As the anon mainly arguing against Oda's creative decisions in writing the Dressrosa arc, I should mention that I actually love OP and am still sticking with it even now. Which is exactly why I find his handling of the entirety of Dressrosa (and to a greater extent, Doflamingo) all the more disappointing with how it all turned out.
>>
>>134443291
I personally thought the fight was portrayed well, given Doffy's ideologies and the way he saw himself as inherently superior to everyone else. Especially how they were initially fighting high in his palace, but then gets knocked down to where the civilians were after the first Gear 4th attack, and eventually down to the underground ports where he was secretly maintaining his black market business when he finally gets defeated. Couple that with the birdcage and how that physically represented when the citizens were free from Doffy's reign.
>>
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>>134443351
>asspulls
Are you talking about Gear 4? Weren't arguing about why the Lucci fight was better?
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>>134443553
>97 chapters full of filler worthy content
This is why no one takes most OP criticisms seriously.
>>
>>134443811
See I actually like the location changes since they represented exactly what you're saying (basically I agree). The problem comes from the actual scenario writing of the fight. The poor dialogue (more like monologue considering how only Doffy was the one trying at all), the way the enemies are dealt with, how much Oda kept doing bait and switch moments with Law, or how Doffy's powers are portrayed inconsistently for the sake of the plot.
>>
>>134443889
>Are you talking about Gear 4? Weren't arguing about why the Lucci fight was better?
Strawman argument makes you feel good huh? The asspulls being how Doflamingo is able to adapt against everything that Luffy/Law throws at him and yet is somehow incapable of bringing his more powerful movesets that were previously shown just so Law/Luffy can keep wearing him down. Yeah, THAT kind of asspull.
>>
>>134443952

I'm sure you enjoyed Kyros fillers m8.
>>
>>134444005
>(more like monologue considering how only Doffy was the one trying at all)
That's not true though. Doffy and Law have lengthy conversations during their fight which did very well at establishing some things about both their characters, And once Luffy vs Doffy starts, there's not much talking until the Luffy's thorn in my side speech.
>>
>>134444289
>fillers
And yeah, I actually did.
>>
>>134444091
>Yeah, THAT kind of asspull.
>Not knowing what asspull means.
>>
>>134444321
>Doffy and Law have lengthy conversations during their fight which did very well at establishing some things about both their characters,
I'll concede and say that this was fine (great, even) until Law got BTFO. Replacing Law/Doffy's good dialogue exchanges with Luffy's spiel against Doffy was a grave mistake in the writing.

>there's not much talking until the Luffy's thorn in my side speech.
It makes me sad that this was basically the only thoughtful thing to come out of their dialogue exchange.
>>
>>134443212

Leruto has nothing on One piece even though post time skip arcs were disappointing.
>>
>>134444460
>It makes me sad that this was basically the only thoughtful thing to come out of their dialogue exchange.
Well yeah, they were fighting.
>>
>>134444415
>not knowing what asspull means while arguing as if they do
Try again.

>>134444573
Except they were also talking, in which most of Luffy's replies consisted of garbage like "YOU'RE BAD, AND YOU MANIPULATE PEOPLE AND THAT'S BAD". It's like he went full retard when confronted with Doflamingo's intelligent speeches. It's not like Luffy had to be a scholar to talk back against him, he just didn't have to sound like a retard every time he did.
>>
>>134443664
>(and to a greater extent, Doflamingo)
Why do you assume Oda's done with Doflamingo when there's more than one reasons to show that he's not?
>>
>>134444694
I don't, but the fact remains that he already tripped over the first main arc that deals with Doffy as the main antagonist. If he uses him again and improves on the writing then I absolutely welcome it with open arms.
>>
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>>134444677
>"YOU'RE BAD, AND YOU MANIPULATE PEOPLE AND THAT'S BAD"
Except he never said that. Like I said, he's not a moralfag. he doesn't say shit like that. What he says is that the way Doffy tries to trap everything in his palms and manipulates people makes it hard for HIM to breath, and states that he'll kick his ass and get out of there. That's very much in Luffy's character, especially considering what Luffy's ideals are all about. Again, he does not give a fuck about the morals of the other party nor claims that he's right and others are wrong. I don't know why you keep saying this.
>>
>>134444677
Luffy is a simple minded guy who just wants to beat up the bad guys.
>>
Well then. Anyone care to explain why Law didn't lose his arm or died when Dofla had all the time to dice him into thousand pieces? He basically walked off scot-free. Also while Luffy was charging his power level, Doflamingo went full stupid and started playing with Rebecca instead of finishing the damn strawhat.
>>
>>134445102

Sounds like a marine to me.
>>
>>134445061
>Again, he does not give a fuck about the morals of the other party nor claims that he's right and others are wrong. I don't know why you keep saying this.
Except he does, the chosen pages you're even referencing outwardly shows how much he gives a damn about the moralistic implications of whatever Doffy is doing to all the people he knew. It's just downright sad when even looking at these two pages, Doffy's segments are still written well by comparison, which feels utterly wrong for what was meant to be Luffy's glory moment.
>>
>>134445217
>how much he gives a damn about the moralistic implications of whatever Doffy is doing to all the people he knew.
Ofcourse he gives a damn about the people he knows, that's why he's so pissed off. But he never says shit like "you're bad or your evil!" like you claim. It's more like "the shit you do pisses me off" which is always how he's been like and always the reasons why he fights.
>>
>>134444366

Did it go well with Rebecca fillers?
>>
>>134445301
>It's more like "the shit you do pisses me off" which is always how he's been like and always the reasons why he fights.
This isn't so bad if it weren't for the fact that Doflamingo is presented in a far more grandiose way than a lot of villains. Hell, maybe the fault in the writing comes from Doflamingo being characterized the way he was and Luffy just being himself is actually what Oda got right, I don't know. The fact remains that Luffy's stance in fighting him doesn't gel well with how Doflamingo was characterized as a larger than life villain that's been built up throughout the series this entire time.
>>
>>134445203
Luffy wouldn't have gotten a bounty for much longer if it wasn't for the corrupt marine that reported him when he hadn't done anything wrong.
>>
>>134445512
Luffy sure dindu nuffins now didn't he?
>>
>>134445480
>Hell, maybe the fault in the writing comes from Doflamingo being characterized the way he was and Luffy just being himself is actually what Oda got right, I don't know.
What? I don't even know what your complaint is anymore. First you claim Luffy is acting dumb all of a sudden, even though it's in character, and now you're saying maybe it's Doffy's characterization and not Luffy, even though it's in Doffy's character to talk shit like that considering his background and personality. Whether or not Doflamingo is presented more grandiose or not, isn't going to suddenly change Luffy to act differently towards him. I don't know what your point is.
>>
>>134445446
I'm one of the few people that like Rebecca as a character, so yes.
>>
>>134445792

While you were enjoying both I'm sure you didn't even notice the colosseum fillers.
>>
>>134445729
You do realize that these are characters being written by an author right? They don't just act a certain pre-determined way where as long as it matches them it suddenly equates to good writing.

Also for clarification this is my main point and it's what I've been saying all this time:
>The fact remains that Luffy's stance in fighting him doesn't gel well with how Doflamingo was characterized as a larger than life villain that's been built up throughout the series this entire time.

It's the confrontation itself. The way the characters interact in order to form a thoughtful narrative. That's exactly where Oda failed in writing Doffy vs Luffy.
>>
>>134445924
Nigga, Abdulla and Jeet, and Cavendish are some of my favorite characters to come out of the arc. Also, they're the Strawhat grandfleet now. Rebecca and Kyros's story wasn't filler either, but especially not the gladiators.
>>
>>134413954
>>134413996
>/a/ - Anime reviews & Blogs
>>
>>134443553
You must be blind it took an entire of 10-15 chapters for doffy to be defeated. Law couldn't do it and luffy takes a while to defeat him.
>>
>>134443553
>>Filler
You keep using this word.
>>
>>134445959
>It's the confrontation itself. The way the characters interact in order to form a thoughtful narrative. That's exactly where Oda failed in writing Doffy vs Luffy.
How? And why not? I honestly don't see anything wrong with that exchange and to me shows exactly why both of them are so desperate in this fight while also displaying their characteristics and ideals. I mean, if you didn't like it, whatever, but I feel like you keep choosing to ignore the things the narrative is actually showing just because it didn't go the way you personally wanted it to go.
>>
>>134446218
It took absolutely 3 chapters for Luffy to reveal his new gear and beat Dofla with it.
>>
>>134446311
Except that wasn't the entirety of Doffy's fight.
>>
>>134446289
>I mean, if you didn't like it, whatever
I didn't like it so if you want we can agree to disagree without the unnecessary jabs like the following:
>but I feel like you keep choosing to ignore the things the narrative is actually showing just because it didn't go the way you personally wanted it to go.
>>
>>134445160
Doffy still care for law to a certain degree. He doesn't really want to kill law so that he can force law to perform the immortality operation on him.
>>
>>134446311
Luffy thought that gear second and third would be enough to defeat doffy. And gear fourth have a lot of risks and drawbacks.
>>
>>134446333
Entirety of Dofla fight was Bellamy springing around Luffy for 10 chapters while Law getting his arm chopped off, although it was sewed back like new. Obviously Oda needs to follow the same pattern as he did before and let Luffy deal the finishing blow.

>>134446374
Doflamingo knew fully well by the time he could've kill Law that he wouldn't give him the immortality no matter what.
>>
>>134446364
But you're the one that keeps taking your disagreements and claiming it's an objective flaw that Oda failed at. You complain about things "that you didn't like" but treat it as an objective complaint while ignoring what the author wanted to portray. If you don't want me to make those jabs then stop pretending like your opinions are facts.
>>
>>134446525
Okay? So you're saying the fight lasted more than 3 chapters?
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>>134446641
>But you're the one that keeps taking your disagreements and claiming it's an objective flaw that Oda failed at. You complain about things "that you didn't like" but treat it as an objective complaint while ignoring what the author wanted to portray. If you don't want me to make those jabs then stop pretending like your opinions are facts.
What the flying fuck are you on??? I never said my opinions and criticisms were FACT. They're legitimate criticisms that I posited with proper thought and consideration of the plot, ones that you obviously disagreed and thought about enough to want to keep going with the discussion. You're the one who kept insisting this "objectivity vs subjectivity" spiel you retarded dumbass.
>>
>>134446858
>That's exactly where Oda failed in writing Doffy vs Luffy.
>Maybe the fault in the writing comes from Doflamingo being characterized the way he was

> I never said my opinions and criticisms were FACT.
You sure write like you think they are though. It's one thing to say you don't like this or that for whatever reason. But when you're claiming the author failed at this and that, that comes out as if your "opinions" are actually facts that NEED changing.
>>
>>134447036
Holy-- look have you ever properly debated with people before? You rarely, if ever, say "in my opinion" in an argument when you're pushing for your stance (that shit is a given).

Such claims about what the author got right/wrong are used to exemplify a point of one's argument, NOT a bold statement of a given fact. I'm not even arguing or making fun of you at this point, this is just basic argumentative logic.
>>
>>134447261
>You rarely, if ever, say "in my opinion" in an argument
No shit. But saying an author failed at something does make it seem like what your criticizing is a fundamental flaw. I can say that I didn't like how Togashi handled the whole aftermath of Gon's consequences after the Pitou fight, or how he handled Ging's character, but I'm not gonna say Togashi failed at writing this and that since those thoughts are just my opinions or my wishes. I wish Gon and Ging's first meeting would've been more climatic but I don't think Togashi "failed" with this interaction since that's just how he wanted to portray it. And yeah, I've been in a lot of arguments, but I've never seen people claim shit like that when talking about their opinions. It just sounds pretentious, and honestly like you think your opinions are facts.
>>
>>134447763
Fair enough but my point still stands and you're essentially projecting the idea that I was even positing them as facts when I was just arguing the legitimacy and thought behind my criticisms of Oda's writing. Do know that I recognize my arguments as opinions though, I'm not that much of a closed-minded idiot to think that my arguments are like some cold hard facts about the series.
>>
>>134413954
DUDE GOMU GOMU LMAO
>>
oda can't write for shit he is a misogynistt unlike togashi
>>
>>134448689
typical false flag from a One Piece fan.

Here to make other criticism look bad. They are that inane.
>>
>>134449776
>implying that's not an obvious shitpost
>being this dumb
>>
>>134445061
¨That's exactly what he meant. Luffy is a goodie two shoe, he's not retarded enough to think he can help everyone in the world but he certainly helps innocent people in the immediate vicinity, and will go to hell for them if he ever so slightly bounds with them, which is pretty much instantaneous if they aren't assholes.
>>
>>134450469
Yeah. He helps people and himself. That's why he fights. He doesn't fight to teach ethics to his opponents though.
>>
>>134450711
>He doesn't fight to teach ethics to his opponents though.

He's certainly not an exception. Shonens are generally always about clash of ideals, but under the pretense of getting rid of the angst part, One Piece is the only one that never translate to dialogue. You punch hard than your opponents because you have more motivation or whatever he wants to call it and you win.

It's dumb but it's effective to market for the masses and that's why it's the Michael Bay movies of the manga world.
>>
>>134451128
>the Michael Bay movies of the manga world.
I don't understand this analogy. I'm talking about Luffy's character, and how he's not about trying to change other's ideals, or telling them this is right and this is wrong. His moral compass is extremely strong and well established, but he never needs to lecture anyone or claim that he's righteous. He just does whatever the fuck he wants, and fights whoever pisses him off, but since he is just a genuinely good person he's usually fighting for the 'just' side. He's a morally "good" character without seemingly pretentious.
>>
>>134451509
>I don't understand this analogy.

It's the dumb entertainment that is eaten up by the masses like it's cupcakes and disdained by those slightly more monocled. Appeal to lowest common denominator and all that.

Not saying anime is supposed to be highbrow but One Piece is a bottom feeder among bottom feeders.
>>
>>134413996
>Attack on Titan
>>
>>134419000
>if you don't like One Piece you shouldn't be on /a/
>It is one of the best mangas
So it is true. There is nothing else but shonens in a shonenbaby's mind.
>>
>>134451691
I still don't see it. What does Luffy's character have to do with what you're implying? There are a lot of ways the author portrays the clashes of ideals, certain themes, social commentaries without outright spelling it out to the readers, especially not through the main protagonist. Luffy doesn't need to tell the antagonist that "he's bad". The readers are already smart enough to know that from the context of the story, and he doesn't need to be portrayed as a moralfag either for the readers to know that he's a good person.
>>
>>134414936
>>134415177

Okay, redraw it then. It shouldn't be too hard
>>
>>134452046
The main antagonist sure always feels the need to tell Luffy he's wrong. Luffy doesn't have anything to argue with because he never thinks, he just acts on impulse aside form his initial pirate king rationale that he just took from Shanks.
>>
>>134452160
Okay and? Do you really need the MC to handhold you into showing why the antagonist is wrong or why he needs to change his ways? That's not even what One Piece is about anyway. Look at how Buggy, Wapol, Croco, or Lucci turns out. If they learn their lesson through their fights, it's on them. If not, they continue on their life regardless. I don't get why you think an MC has to be a moralfag to be compelling.
>>
>>134452386
>Do you really need the MC to handhold you into showing why the antagonist is wrong or why he needs to change his ways?
>what is characterization

This should never about teacher the reader anything.
If you're ok with imbeciles who can barely put words together as heroes in your stories then One Piece is probably the manga for you.
>>
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>>134418036
Most people who read One Piece are adults. About 88%. Source is NHK.

43% between 19 and 29, 32% between 30 and 49, and 13% are over 50.
>>
>>134452489
>imbeciles who can barely put words together as heroes
That's not how Luffy's portrayed though, so I'll say you still don't have an argument.
>>
>>134452711
>expecting children to return any poll

This is typical marketing manipulation. If you say your products are brought by adults, you make everyone feel good about reading it.
>>
>>134452818
It's not poll based.
>>
>>134452868
It's magic based
>>
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>>134413954
epic
>>
>>134453126
Sure if that's what you want to believe.
>>
>>134452711
I love how Gold and treasure are part of the marketing material when they have been utterly useless since Water 7.

As soon as the world hits Bleach levels of power creep currency becomes completely debased.
>>
>>134413954
>this poor bait thread with a copied MAL comment is still up
>>
>>134415177
>One Piece is going full power level showcase
But this is wrong you fucking retard. How did Luffy beat Doflamingo? Not because he was stronger but because he got help from many people. There are no powerlevels in One Piece. It is still completely possible that someone with a good fruit ability can defeat a Haki master. See Law vs Vergo for instance.
>>
>>134413954
>>134413996
>Overall: One Piece is poor. Yes, Fullmetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, Death Note, and many others are great shonen stories that I encourage people to read and enjoy.
Hahahaha! Good fuck, I can almost smell the shit taste from your posts.

>Fullmetal Alchemist
Was so boring I couldn't even get through half of it. The only part that I found moving, was the death of Nina Tucker. Aside from Greed, that is the only thing I remember about it.

Attack on Titan... I vaguely remember some giant skinless guy trying to buttfuck a wall, or something. I don't know, it always looked paint-huffingly stupid, to me.

>Death Note
Why in the fuck would you use a book that made you cease to exist after death for a tiny amount of power, just to act like a preening pretty boy Jesus?

One Piece, Fairy Tail, and Berserk are the only Manga I read.
>>
>>134454474
>See Law vs Vergo for instance.

His haki was stronger so he overcame the haki barrier against his fruit.
>>
>>134454627
Not that anon but your use of "he" s are confusing me.
>>
>>134454627
What?
>>
>>134454682
>>134454722
Law's haki infused devil fruit attack was stronger than Vergo's haki defenses so he was able to cut him.
>>
>>134454757
>Law's haki infused devil fruit attack
What?
>>
>>134454757
>Law's haki infused devil fruit attack
this never happened
>>
>>134454757
Nigga, what are you smoking ?
>>
>>134454618
Why are you taking the bait so hard? OPs text is a copied MAL review by some butthurt raging 10 year old.
>>
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>>134454891
Eh, thought that might be the case. Whatever.
>>
>>134454474
Not anon and yes Luffy got help from Law but gear 2 and 4 are not usage of his power in creative way but to raise his power overall. Power level or not.
>>
>>134454988
>one character gets stronger doing something that literally only he can do because of his specific body type
>powerlevels
How the fuck ? Shit, Zoro got stronger compared to Arabasta and Thriller Bark, is that power levels too ?
>>
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>>134454988
I'd say using your rubber heart, blood, bones, and vascular system to perform creative feats that would kill or injure anyone else who tried them, is pretty creative.

Most people just think of stretching your limbs. Luffy, on the other hand, turns his bones into flesh balloons and uses his elasticity of his veins to make sure his heart doesn't explode from the pressure.
>>
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>>134454795
>>134454853
>>134454878
Low IQed speedreaders should not make me waste my time like that.
>>
>>134455245
Nigga, Doffy simply assumed shit. Law was not using Haki when cutting Vergo. Unless you're going to say Law's unhardened CoA is somehow stronger than a literal master of CoA.
>>
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>>134455313
>Nigga, Doffy simply assumed shit.

You would think Doffy knows what he is talking about. Haki stops devil fruit attacks, we've seen it countless time. Here let me dig a page where it's shown in action the first time. Even if it's not a direct physical attack haki will work.

See? Now thank me cus I had to waste 2 min to find it.
>>
>>134455674
What does that have to do with anything? Law's fruit powers were enough to cut through Vergo's giga nigga Haki. The admiral's barrier was enough to block other stuff. Those two scenes don't contradict each other in any way, related to the argument you guys are having or not.

You don't necessarily need haki to beat haki.
>>
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>>134455760
My picture just proved you typically use haki to stop even barely material Fruit Powers.

The fact that Vergo's haki didn't work means Law infused Haki in his own attack and it surpassed Vergo's haki.

This happened before when Vista was not able to injure Akainu even though he infused his attack with haki and clearly went through his body. Akainu's haki canceled his haki and his fruit worked as normal.
>>
>>134455910
>means Law infused Haki in his own attack
Or Law was strong enough in the first place that Vergo's haki couldn't block it, or the way Law's powers separate shit made it easier for him to ignore Vergo's haki. Law's sword didn't turn black and so far there's been no indication he can somehow infuse his Room powers with haki either. And his Room is obviously what was used to separate Vergo since he wasn't fucking dead after getting chopped in half.

>This happened before when Vista was not able to injure Akainu even though he infused his attack with haki and clearly went through his body.
Logias can still manually shift their body around haki infused attacks.
>>
>>134455910
>Law infused Haki in his own attack
How the fuck would he even do that? With what haki? Where are these headcanons even coming from?
>>
>>134455988
>Or Law was strong enough in the first place that Vergo's haki couldn't block it
Law didn't cut Vergo and his fruit has nothing to do with strength. His sword works like a perfect scalpel and the attack is immaterial.

The only thing that can possibly strengthen it is something immaterial like haki.

>Law's sword didn't turn black

That's not how haki works. Don't make me dig out more pictures.

>there's been no indication he can somehow infuse his Room powers

We've seen devil fruits being infused with haki. This isn't new. Check out how Whitebeard quaked the shit out of Akainu.
>>
>>134456092
>How the fuck would he even do that?
I know right. It' totally crazy to think that a magic power can work like a magic power and applies on top of other magic powers.

Especially when it's been shown several times.
>>
Oda is a fucking genius.

I don't care.
>>
>>134454891
Why are you taking the even more obvious bait? You're seriously replying to someone who said
>One Piece, Fairy Tail, and Berserk are the only Manga I read.
>>
>>134456203
>Especially when it's been shown several times.
When? and which haki? The only power ups we know for devil fruits is awakening, and it was never mentioned that you can infuse haki to enhance your devil fruit powers. Luffy can harden his body and use that to harden his rubber body, but haki doesn't make him bouncier or shit like that.
>>
>>134456478
>When? and which haki?
I'm not repeating the evidence given to another anon in the same conversation. Learn to follow a thread.
>>
>>134456601
None of those answer my question though. The only haki that can physically be infused with something is CoA, and I don't see how any of what you shows proves that CoA inhances DF powers, unless it's cases like Luffy's where his body physically is rubber.
>>
>>134456657
That's exactly what Whitebeard did.

That's exactly what Dofflamingo did.

And that's exactly what Law does. And that's exactly why he couldnt repeat the same attack on Doflamingo and end this on the bridge 50 chapters before.
>>
>>134456714
I'm gonna need sources for those, or your just assuming your headcanons count as evidence. We know shit all about DFs and awakening, but we were given plenty of information and exposition from a person who mastered haki. From that exposition we were given, none of three haki was said to be able to do what you're claiming it does. If you can point me to where it says it, or which haki you're implying can do it. Then show me.
>>
>>134456810
>I'm gonna need sources for those

Am I getting paid for this shit? Do I need to show you every instances Doffy infused his strings and even his string clone with haki?

Do I need to dig out the picture of Whitebeard stomping Akainu with his quake? Do I really need to do that or you are not that dense?
>>
Nami got some bomb-ass tits tho
>>
>>134456910
You do know Doffy's strings are physical shit right? Like how weapons and swords can be infused with haki to make them more durable too? And even then, there isn't proof if his strings were practically invincible because of haki or because of his awakening. And I don't know what exact moment you're talking about with WB and Akainu, but I'd assume if Whitebeards quake the fucking air, then it would affect Akainu regardless.
>>
Here is my reply. You won't find another one like it in the entire world. I have handcrafted this reply using skills taught to me by Indonesian monks over the course of a quarter century. I have honed these talents into the post you are currently reading. It is clear, concise, and best of all, a joy to read. The use of proper grammar and spelling is above and beyond any mere reading experience brought to you prior to this glorious moment. Indeed, no one has, or ever will, match the tenacity and sheer incredibleness of this post. There's simply no reason to even try. Hang up your posting boots, kids, the game's been won. This is the greatest reply ever posted in the entire history of the world. And you're welcome.
>>
>>134457005
>but I'd assume if Whitebeards quake the fucking air, then it would affect Akainu regardless.

Wrong. Air quakes do not affect Logia users unless something extra is added on top.

When Ao Kiji took an air Quake head on he was disintegrated and reformed with no injuries. Whitebeard was not enraged then and only did the quake to stop Ao Kiji's missiles.

When he went after Akainu he was fully enraged and trying to kill him. And then his quake did massive damage to a logia. Meaning haki was added this time.
>>
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>>134457172
I went and looked for what the fuck you were talking about, and the nigga is physically punching Akainu with his arms while using his quake fruit. It's already established you can use CoA to physically hit logias. Looks to me like he's using his quake fruit to enhance his physical attack than the other way around.
>>
>>134457456
>Looks to me like he's using his quake fruit to enhance his physical attack than the other way around.

And why should it work exactly? Unless said vibrations can be infused with haki themselves, only the infused punch should be able to inflict damage.

You know that outside of coating, haki is like an invisible barrier? Makes sense that it applies in immaterial ways as well.
Just like how Doflamingo can infuse strings he isn't even touching with coating haki.

With all this in mind, with the fact that Dofy was confident vergo's haki was strong 'enough' (notice the enough) to stop Law's splitting powers, the fact that he somehow never managed to use it on Doffy, even tho his ability has nothing to do with brute strength.
All this tip the scale of the argument heavily in my favor.
>>
Evangelion threads are still more retarded than this shit.
Good job on the bait OP, I'm sure others will follow your example.
>>
>>134457636
>All this tip the scale of the argument heavily in my favor.
No it doesn't. In Whitebeards case, it looks like he's using his quake powers to make his physical attacks stronger. He can hit akainu with his arms because he's using CoA. Said vibrations can be used on his fucking arms, you dingus.
>>
>>134458966
>he's making his arms vibrate to tickle akainu

You're the dingus. There's no reason to believe he's not quaking the shit out of Akainu's face. Because it's shown explicitly. And for that it has to be a haki infused quake. It's that fucking simple.
>>
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This thread
>>
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>One Piece is shit

Who would've thought ?
>>
>>134454988
>but gear 2 and 4 are not usage of his power in creative way but to raise his power overall.
Nigger what? The whole concept of G2 and G4 is creative as fuck.
>>
>>134455245
Doffy literally says "your Chopping Ability" and not "Your Haki". Congratulations you disproved yourself with your own picture.
>>
>>134459368
People with shit taste
>>
>>134434931
Seconded
>>
>>134459052
It just shows his face bloody on the ground after WB punches him. CoA lets logias be touchable. If WB uses CoA, something that's already been established in the series, to touch Akainu while using his quake powers on his arms then no shit it would affect Akainu. These are logical conclusions we can make from shit that was already introduced in the series.

You keep implying that there's some type of haki you made up in your head that enhances DF powers that have nothing to do with physical contact. Nothing of the sort was mentioned or established in the series. Why try to make shit up when you can make logical explanations to things by using rules that have already been established?
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