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What the fuck is this lovecraftian abomination, /a/? Can Shiki

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What the fuck is this lovecraftian abomination, /a/?

Can Shiki kill it?
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>>133749245
Can it beat Saitama?
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>>133749482
yes
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Too complex for you earthling.Must be an ayyy lmao from Mercury to kill it.
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>>133749245
It's the Ultimate One of Mercury and a "perfect" being. Being perfect means it has no death (as death in itself is an imperfection), so Shiki can't kill it.
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>>133750261
But she has to be a little girl transfer student that claims to be from Mercury.
She has a true form but all it does is make her grow cat ears and a tail.
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>>133749245
>What the fuck is this lovecraftian abomination, /a/?
post loli ORT
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>>>/jp/
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>>133750356
>type moon
>jp
>>>/2008/
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>>133749245
Hah, forget killing it, brain would probably explode just from looking at it. Need a Knight Arm or Black Barrel for that shit man.
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No, but he could fuck it.
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>>133749245
Shiki fucks that, right?
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>something from outerspace
>omg my brain is gonna explode i cant comprehend it
Why cant it be the other way around?
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It's a big spider.
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>>133750501
Probably. Shiki fucks everything eventually.
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>>133749245
Problem, Aristotle?
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>>133750501
>>133750495
post the screenshots
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>>133749245
>>133750501
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>>133750576
What the fuck is that?
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>>133751176
The embodiment of human nature, can destroy anything to protect humanity by destroying the world. Literally the most OP bullshit in the entirety of nasuverse.
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>>133750737
>THAT IS MY LEFT NOSTRIL
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>>133750737
Why is this seems passable as Nasu's writing? Is it from him?
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>>133750737
Hilarious
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>>133751260
It's not as OP as the stuff gods can do.
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>>133753165
What can they do anyway? How high level is the divine spirit created by the christian belief in God?
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>>133750576
this is why i have trust issues with nasu
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>>133753285
Authority [Miracle]
Special abilities categorically different from Codecasts, skills, and Noble Phantasms.
Powers on the level of event shifting, time-flow manipulation, kingdom-building, basically, world construction, are called by this name.
They had been around in the age called the age of gods, more than 6000 years ago, but ever since the beginning of the AD calendar, they were relieved of their duty with the advance of human civilization and retired to the past.
A normal skill “is able to accomplish a certain task by following a corresponding principle”, but an authority works “simply by making things happen because one has that right”.
Divine spirit Servants should have this, but using this power in the modern age requires a bit of a penalty (self-ruin).
In CCC, the being that swallowed the Moon Cell had reached this realm.
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>>133753581
Cool. How does it compare to Ultimate Ones, or could it destroy the earth and the people whose belief birthed it?
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>>133750301
That's not how it works. It's an otherworldly being with a different concept of death than what we have on Earth, so it can't "die" in the normal sense, it has no concept of death. However, Notes shows quite clearly that TYPEs can be killed.
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>>133753662
Don't know. Seems limited to Earth, but then again, so is Ado Edem.

Archetype Earth on the other hand, has several powers that can be classed as authorities, and she can exercise her power outside Earth, in space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6t6vtCACeM

Flinging her enemy into space and firing energy beams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCjP1BFK4vI

Or trapping them in another dimension and making the dimension collapse.

Needless to say, abuse of authority is pretty damn powerful.
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>>133749245
>>133750315
ORT-chan is my waifu.
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>>133753662
It's essentially a combination of a Reality Marble + a Marble Phantasm, allowing the user to permanently reshape reality according to his desires.

A miracle would be capable of mass destruction, probably on the continental scale, but a single miracle probably wouldn't be able to slay Gaia barring unusual circumstances.

So someone capable of Miracles is very powerful, stronger than most things in the Type-Moon universe like Counter Guardians, but still weaker than Types, full power Arc, Void Shiki or True Demons.
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>>133754088
No, Notes proves Types CANNOT be killed.
Even an attack that forcibly teaches the concept of "death" to immortals, then explodes them with infinite damage, failed to kill Type-Venus.
Type-Venus' body was shattered, and it fell to the ground immobile, but she lived on, and even said she could move to get out of Type-Saturn's warpath (it would crack open her form, freeing the ravenous angel-spores in her wings, killing the remnants of mankind, though).

Even destroyed ones (Type-Jupiter, Type-Plut) haven't truly died.

Ultimate Ones are without death. Not just an alien concept of death, but they are without it. Arcueid Brunestud, when she her Ultimate One ability is fully active [i.e. the moon is out and her connection to Earth is intact], has no lines of death, despite being the very definition of an earthly organism.
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>>133754621
So, what happens if they clash with a divine spirit of the highest order, like a bodhisattva or the Death Star?
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>>133754690
Ultimate Ones are Ultimate for a reason.
They are perfect, without limit, a universe unto themselves. The terraforming that surrounds them goes beyond an authority or a Reality Marble (which forcefully shifts and overwrites respectively), it literally mutates the laws of the physics in their vicinity as a passive effect. They bring their rules with them, and nothing can defy it, even B.B. with her Ten Crowns is not immune to Arcueid's Blut die Schwester, and she's not even a real Type (she relies on the planet-soul of earth, and moonlight for some reason [the sun blows away her perfection and returns her to mortal {though extremely powerful} status] to be perfect).
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>>133749245
No, but he can probably fuck it. Why bother killing stuff when the D is a better way to beat them.
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>>133750737
Honestly, it probably would go like that.
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>>133754812
He'd be too busy fucking cats to bother.
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>>133754799
Do we know how an Ultimate Ones is born? Could the sun or a massive black hole be an Aristoteles?
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>>133751260
>destroying the world
Ea can do that.
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>>133754893
>He'd be too busy fucking cats to bother.

Can you blame him?
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>>133754905
The closest info we have is just that Earth could not make one for some reason (Tsukihime Prologue), so it seems to be a natural generation from a planet-soul to inhabit and defend itself.
As far as is shown, only planets have reality-generating oversouls. But Pluto's not really a planet, and the Moon was never a planet, so it's possible any celestial body of sufficient size may count. But no stars have ever been shown to.
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>>133754799
Arc in her full expression is possibly beyond Types. The Archetype in her title refers to the Jungian Archetype, the most pure and primordial state a being can reach, and Nasu uses ultimate and primordial interchangeably.
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>>133754621
Fairly sure Nasu said that destroying their planet renders them vulnerable to death.
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>>133755085
Arcueid at her most perfect is equal to the Crimson Moon. The title of Archetype just sets her apart from Types. Types are already original-level beings. CCC makes this clear; the player's servants must mantle their Origin and become original-level beings themselves to match B.B., who has become a fragment of Fate/EXTRA's Type-Moon.
In the first place, Arcueid is only a copy of Type-Moon. How could she surpass her own original form?
>>133755090
No, that's fanon. They are undying. ORT is flat-out immune to the MEoDP, not because of any nonsense of "Gaian understanding of death" (another pervasive fanon), but because "it doesn't have a concept of death".
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>>133755206
Was there ever an event where a planet with a type actually got destroyed?
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>>133755016
I never implied it was a bad thing.
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>>133755225
No. In the first place, Type-Moon actually has a knowledge of physics and scale. Destroying a planet is absurdly difficult and requires utterly ludicrous amounts of energy. The only thing capable of doing it is Type entities themselves, true demons who are unidentifiable alien gods, Black Barrel which grows in proportion to the energy within the foe (and is just a standard rifle by itself), and Ado Edem who's power grows without limit by consuming the planet beneath his feet.
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>>133755206
>How could she surpass her own original form?

By becoming something else entirely? Archetype Earth is nothing like Type Moon. Her Extra entry states she has an earthly authority while being a copy of the moon. And she is the Ultimate One of an actual planet, the same can't be said of Type Moon.
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>>133755332
So she's got an authority, this doesn't make her not a copy of the moon.
>And she is the Ultimate One of an actual planet, the same can't be said of Type Moon.
And, what? The Moon is just as legitimate as a planet as any other in this setting. Type-Moon is just as ultimate as Type-Mercury, Type-Jupiter et al.
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>>133755394
So, size matters not?
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>>133755312
>energy
Who cares? It's not like things in TM follow physical rules. Ea was legit described as a primordial sword that could undo all of creation and it gets all its energy from.. Nasu's ass.
With things like sucking energy from an infinite number of paralell worlds or even all the possible futures existing, it's just a matter of "who has the biggest bullshit".
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>>133755394
>So she's got an authority, this doesn't make her not a copy of the moon.

Just because she was created using Type Moon as base doesn't change her earthly authority or the fact she is the soul of Earth now. You are completely disregarding that fact when it's the most important. It's stated that although her aspect as a vampire (her Crimson Moon aspect) is strong she is first and foremost an Earth spirit.

>And, what?

She is different and has shown greater power than Type Moon. Hell she can already perform Type Moon's strognest attack (moon drop) as Warcueid. In her strongest form, Archetype Earth, she can do shit way crazier even outside Earth.
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>>133755429
The Moon is bigger than Pluto, so there might be a minimum size, but is past it.
>>133755527
Enuma Elish, like every other Noble Phantasm, draws its energy from the wielder. It's Gilgamesh's attack. He's probably got dozens of cheats for infinite magical energy in his gate to explain why he can do it over and over without getting tired.
And yes, bullshit to break your personal limits is the name of the game, but it's still kept within a pretty solid scale. Ea can't destroy the planet, it just shreds the rules of the planet. At best, it could destroy a mountain.
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>>133755603
>Ea can't destroy the planet, it just shreds the rules of the planet. At best, it could destroy a mountain.
Not according to what it did in Rider's RM or his fight with Enkidu as well as its "Anti-World" class. Excalibur does its "Anti-Fortress" description pretty well and that's about the equivalent of a mountain and Ea overpowers it.
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>>133755683
The best showing of Ea is in Strange Fake, which does lots of damage to the planet but it's not even close to destroying the entire world, let alone the entire celestial body. Also, Gaia can repair damage done to it's RM.
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>>133755758
The only reason it didn't destroy it was Enkidu.
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>>133755806
The Earth is way sturdier than your average Reality Marble. You have no proof Ea can destroy the entire world. And no, anti-world classification is not enough, by that logic Hanging Gardens can destroy the world.
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>>133755881
>by that logic
>>133755603
>bullshit to break your personal limits is the name of the game
There is no logic in Nasu's writing and you have no proof there is any. Any ability described is as easily thwarted as writing another ability that defies it "just because".
It's a child's level of writing, the equivalent of arguing over which infinity maximum is stronger than the other.
Go read Strange Fake again, if the words are there you have no choice but to believe them and if you still stick to your "logic" then go pick an argument with an 11 year old about how Fake Assassin should have won the first fight with Saber or who should win betwen the Gay Bulge or Fragarach.
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>>133756004
What are you butthurt about? Unless we actually see Ea destroying the world you have literally no point.
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>>133756046
Strange Fake very clearly states Ea was on the verge of doing thus just. You just deny and babble on though.
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>>133754905
I thought it was something along the lines of an Ultimate One being a sort of title that is attached by the planet-soul to one who satisfies the prerequisite:
- That they are at some point capable of defeating everything on that planet.

On Earth it's basically impossible to accomplish this because the biome is way too complex, there's always someone out there who could perfectly counter your bullshit. Like yes we can categorically say that certain characters born of Earth are pretty fucking strong, possibly enough to just destroy the planet and 99.999999% of everything on it, but there would always be the one Shirou to your Gilgamesh (Scaled up obviously) whose skillset just happens to slip in through the gap in your power and could beat you if it came down to a battle to the death.
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>>133755577
>Just because she was created using Type Moon as base doesn't change her earthly authority or the fact she is the soul of Earth now. You are completely disregarding that fact when it's the most important. It's stated that although her aspect as a vampire (her Crimson Moon aspect) is strong she is first and foremost an Earth spirit.
Arcueid is not the soul of the Earth, she is the planet's sense of touch. The soul of the Earth is its own thing.
>She is different and has shown greater power than Type Moon. Hell she can already perform Type Moon's strognest attack (moon drop) as Warcueid. In her strongest form, Archetype Earth, she can do shit way crazier even outside Earth.
Bullshit. We've never seen Type-Moon's strongest abilities. The falling moon was never said to be his limit.
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>>133756004
Your interpretation of that scene is utterly nonsense. There is strict logic to Nasu's setting, and you disliking it is merely petulant. You cannot deny it exists.
Ea never could destroy the whole of planet earth. It can just damage the rules of earth and show the truth beneath.
It shattered a reality marble, which is made up of nothing but those selfsame rules.
Clashes of concepts are part of the setting, there is no "infinity" in the setting at all. Tohsaka makes that quite clear, if you've ever read the VN.
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>>133756403
>Arcueid is not the soul of the Earth
>The soul of the Earth is its own thing

Considering this was literally Archetype's response to Ciel saying that, you are explicitly wrong on that front.

>Bullshit. We've never seen Type-Moon's strongest abilities

Fair enough. Your argument is still a non- sequitur. Type Moon being used as base =/= AE/Arc being inferior when she she was born as something completely different from Type Moon. That's like saying a child must be inferior to their father because a part of their father was used to make them, it's the same thing, almost literally.
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>>133756474
>You cannot deny it exists.
>go pick an argument with an 11 year old about how Fake Assassin should have won the first fight with Saber or who should win betwen the Gay Bulge or Fragarach
You must be one of those people who honestly believe Shirou should withstand defending against a str B rank servant's hits.
Do you even realize all you're doing is just saying "nonsense" to whatever upsets you and provide no arguments but demand them plenty?
What's your proof that Ultimate ones are invincible? Nasu's writing.
What's the proof that Ea can destroy planets? Nasu's writing.
There is no logical argument you can give me for any of these because no such argument is required as the entire fictional story is far removed from reality.
The very thought of "not having the concept of death" is stupid, unrealistic and illogical as much as any other trope found in TM...and as always, claiming something is impossible/invincible/unstoppable is thwarted by the next encounter with another inconvenient description.
This happens over and over again in every story but there's always a fanboy like yourself to make broad statements that hold no value in Nasu's works.
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>>133757020
One thing remains consistent in Nasu's works is that you cannot beat cheat powers without using cheat powers. i.e Gil cannot defeat BB without a cheat (Origin form), but someone like Arc can because on the moon her power is cheats.
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>>133756603
>Considering this was literally Archetype's response to Ciel saying that, you are explicitly wrong on that front.
Archetype: Earth isn't Arcueid, you fuck.
>Fair enough. Your argument is still a non- sequitur. Type Moon being used as base =/= AE/Arc being inferior when she she was born as something completely different from Type Moon. That's like saying a child must be inferior to their father because a part of their father was used to make them, it's the same thing, almost literally.
Nasu's setting bases itself on the concept that original = better, and one can only rival your original model, never surpass. The origin itself is the most powerful thing there is.
Don't even bring up Shirou's bluster.
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>>133757020
Shirou traces strength, so of course he can stand with servants when tracing like a madman. Continue to be insipid; of course the proof of the author's fucking metaphysics are in the writing of that fucking author, those metaphysics only EXIST in the writing of that author.
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>>133757384
Nasu regularly goes on tangents where the fake can prove to surpass the original. Origins can and have been rewritten.
>>133757447
You're delusional.
When a story's encounters are conceptual paradoxes that end up being resolved in the matter convenient to how events should unfold according to the story the author wants to tell (who wins, who loses) you cannot claim to have any logical framework develop. This is how a child thinks, not how world-building is done.
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>>133749245

That's from Type/moon? Looks like a fucking Yu-Gi-Oh monster or a Digimon.
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>>133757650
>Nasu regularly goes on tangents where the fake can prove to surpass the original. Origins can and have been rewritten.
No, never has this happened in Type-Moon. CCC confirms that the origin is so far beyond anything else that it's completely ridiculous.
Again, don't bring up Shirou's bluster. He knows he's less than Gil and had to keep Gil off his footing to win.
>When a story's encounters are conceptual paradoxes that end up being resolved in the matter convenient to how events should unfold according to the story the author wants to tell (who wins, who loses) you cannot claim to have any logical framework develop
There are no "paradoxes". There are never absolutes to begin with. This was stated flat out by Tohsaka in the VN. Sorry you missed it.
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>>133757384
>Archetype: Earth isn't Arcueid, you fuck.

>Not an alter ego of Arcueid, but one and the same as the normal her.
>Even though the principle behind her actions is different from Arcueid's, it's not a different personality, the nature of this her and the usual her is the same

>You said that you and your other self were a s one.
>It wouldn’t be unusual at all if that stupid vampi re thought,”let’s go on a rampage for no reason!” on the spur  of the moment.

Are you retarded? Because it doesn't get more clear cut than outright stating it in your face, yet you somehow manage to conclude the exact opposite. So again, are you retarded?

>Nasu's setting bases itself on the concept that original = better

Except Archetype by herself is an Original One. That's explicitly how Riesbyfe called her and the term Archetype refers to a primordial original being. She wasn't born for the sake of emulating Type Moon, but to be an ultimate being in her own right.
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>>133757880
Archetype: Earth is the soul of the world. She's just possessing Arcueid's body.
The different personality is the Crimson Moon inside her, which Shiki talks to in Kagetsu Tohya. That's not Archetype: Earth either.
Arcueid is Arcueid. Archetype: Earth is Earth inhabiting Arcueid. They're obviously different, they refer to each other as different, Archetype: Earth even acknowledges that it's not even her own body.
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>>133757847
It doesn't matter that they're not absolutes as long as you have no accurate description of the extent of their limits.
What difference does it to you that Fragarach or Gae Bolg have effects that aren't absolute as long as the measure by which they can be surpassed isn't accurately described? The vagueness makes it absolute and that applies to the immortality of the Ultimate Ones.
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>>133758062
>What difference does it to you that Fragarach or Gae Bolg have effects that aren't absolute as long as the measure by which they can be surpassed isn't accurately described?
Do you get upset when a series doesn't describe exactly how many joules the fighter punches with? Describing such details is pointless unless the plot calls for it.
They can be surpassed by effects that work conceptually, but of a stronger concept. That's all it takes. Gae Bolg wouldn't work on B.B. because Potnia Theron is a higher concept than Gae Bolg.
The immortality of the ultimate ones is the highest concept in the setting, denoted by every time they come up, they're referenced as goddamned ULTIMATE.
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>>133757980
>Archetype: Earth is the soul of the world. She's just possessing Arcueid's body.

And yet she is explicitly stated to be one with Arcueid. Whatever you say is irrelevant in the face of Word of God since he already established this fact.

>That's not Archetype: Earth either

Yes she is. She explicitly references her meeting with Tohno in Arcueid's dreams during her win quote against him.

>They're obviously different, they refer to each other as different

Nasu's point here is that she isn't a separate being, but rather someone that lives within Arcueid and is an innerent part of her. The Plus Period entry states this part of her lives within her subconscious and passively influences her thought patterns.

You don't know what you are talking about. Go read the relevant materials.
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>>133757980
>which Shiki talks to in Kagetsu Tohya.
And she remember that.
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>>133758144
>every time they come up, they're referenced as goddamned ULTIMATE
Gae Bolg is referenced every time as reversing causality and an "always fatal move". In practice this has failed. That means it's not "always fatal" and it doesn't do as described by the author.
This happens again and again throughout everything Nasu's written yet you choose to stick to Types being immortal "just because", like a child.
Having a conceptual stack is just more lazy writing but even then, Ea is referenced to be as ancient as everything else as well as "Anti-World" every time it comes up. Yet even with the characters and the narrator describing it as powerful enough to destroy a planet, you firmly deny it.
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>>133758305
>And yet she is explicitly stated to be one with Arcueid. Whatever you say is irrelevant in the face of Word of God since he already established this fact.
She says she's been in Arcueid's body since the beginning, not that she is Arcueid.
>Yes she is. She explicitly references her meeting with Tohno in Arcueid's dreams during her win quote against him.
So now Earth is Crimson Moon, too?
>Nasu's point here is that she isn't a separate being, but rather someone that lives within Arcueid and is an innerent part of her. The Plus Period entry states this part of her lives within her subconscious and passively influences her thought patterns.
Again, that's the Crimson Moon. Not the Earth. Arcueid and Brunestud are the same, just thinking differently. But Earth outright says that Arcueid is not her body, and her real body is the land and sky.
>You don't know what you are talking about. Go read the relevant materials.
Archetype: Earth doesn't come up in any materials, she only exists in MBAA and MBAACC.
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>>133758394
That's because it's imperfect and flawed, like every other "absolute" effect, which was the fucking point.
It's conceptually strong, but not the strongest.
Ultimate Ones are the strongest. Because they get described as the strongest.
And Ea is anti-world, very different from anti-planet. The only anti-planet attack is Angra Mainyu/CCC.
Never in the narration has it said it was enough to destroy the planet.
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>>133758425
>She says she's been in Arcueid's body since the beginning, not that she is Arcueid

>we were one from the very beginning
>you say you and your other self were as one

Are being willfully retarded?

>So now Earth is Crimson Moon, too?

Nasu had already said in the 10th TM Q&A that the planet's brain who is equivalent to the Crimson Moon still exists in the world of Extra. Yes.

>Again, that's the Crimson Moon. Not the Earth. Arcueid and Brunestud are the same

They are all three a single entity. Why is this so hard for you to understand? If you had read everything this should be clear to you.

>Archetype: Earth doesn't come up in any materials

Arc's Crimson Moon side is Archetype Earth.
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>>133758425
>So now Earth is Crimson Moon, too?
AE calls Crimson Moon "father" so no
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>>133758702
Arc's Crimson Moon aspect was never Crimson Moon anyway.
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>>133758644
Okay, then I just had a mental division because I have no idea why the earth and the moon would be of the same spirit when the moon is supposed to have its own spirit.
What is even the point of Brunestud coming from the moon if Earth is somehow already of it?
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>>133758878
The Crimson Moon aspect of Arcueid became the Earth's brain when she was born. In White Berserker's Extra entry it's stated Blut Der Schwester originated from the Brain of the Moon and after many years it became the touch of the Earth.

Also, in Tsuki no Sango, the girl from the moon who is the Moon's brain was actually stated by Nasu to be Arcueid from a parallel world.
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>>133749245
If it exists, it can be shikilled.
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>>133759178
So what happened to the Earth that made the deal with the king of the moon to begin with?
Mindless? Replaced? Was it never really a "person"?
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>>133759326
Probably the later. Presumably brain of the planet =/= Gaia. In Tsuki no Sango some scientists had put the Moon's brain/soul into an artificial body so they could directly control the moon's environment.
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>>133759513
Well, I recognized that Gaia is different. Gaia is just the counter force of the planet, which is obviously unintelligent. I thought the earth itself had intelligence before the making of the True Ancestors, though, and that was what was controlling Arcueid in Actress Again/Current Code.
I suppose not.
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>>133759616
Read Tsuki no Sango. It states planets have parts that could be called their body and heart but no such organ such as a brain. The brain must come from somewhere else.
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>>133754967

Is Ea confirmed to be the most powerful NP? if not what is
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>>133759725
Then what are Types to begin with?
They have obvious intelligence, even if it's completely alien and indeterminable.
Nasu has gotten so convoluted with his cosmology.
>>
>>133759960
Avalon
>>
>>133759960
Depends on what you consider power and what you consider a Noble Phantasm.
Kingprotea's Huge Scale/Grow Up Grow are skills, but they create an infinitely scaling threat. "Planet-destroying, universe-level disaster".
B.B.'s Cursed Cutting Crater controls the universe, basically playing God to do whatever you want.
Heaven's Hole's Angra Mainyu/CCC just deletes anything that can experience a sensation analogous to "pleasure", on a planetary scale.
And Buddha's Amita Amitabha deals several billion damage (in contrast to Enuma Elish's 4000) so who knows how that's supposed to be represented.
>>
>>133754187
Where is this from?
>>
>>133760175
Side Materials.
>>
>>133759965
I don't know about that. V/V noted Types don't have a will. Crimson Moon was the only one with a will and V/V but that was only after she absorbed Liner qualities.
>>
>>133760331
It's not a fanart?
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>>133760074
Buddha's attack does less damage the more non-human his opponent is.
>>
>>133760852
The Moon Cell develops a mind/will on occasion but deletes it since it's supposed to be a neutral observer of earth.
>>
>>133754428

Full power Arceuid is not Crimson Moon nor is she Archetype Earth, she cannot compete with the kind of power that a Miracle represents. Void Shiki can just barely fight defensively against Servants, shut the fuck up about shit if you don't know what you're talking about
>>
>>133749245
>Can Shiki kill it?
No. At least I don't think so.

Also, it's stupid. Nasuverse is so retarded, I hate thinking about it. I hate all his rules and explanations. They're all stupid, seriously.

Even the really simple idea of the holy grail war is stupid because of all his rules. MEoDP are kind of refreshing because they along you to literally cut through all the bullshit Nasu has built up. Or, well, most of it.
>>
>>133756474
>There is strict logic to Nasu's setting
HA

Are you serious? There are so many exceptions to his rules and shit that outright doesn't make sense and you honestly believe that? With Nasu, whatever works works.
>>
>>133758644

oh for fuck's sake, no, Crimson Moon is NOT Archetype Earth. Crimson Moon is Type Moon. Moreover, Arc herself is definitely not Crimson Moon, she herself fights that very notion as well as the notion that she is Archetype Earth. Archetype Earth only even appears in a dream scenario, a 'what-if' moment.
>>
>>133761454
All of the "exceptions" are just twists and unexpected loopholes to the framework, never true violations of the rules. He's surprisingly consistent.
>>
AE wants Shiki's dick and wets herself when he looks at her with MEoDP. Therefore AE is Arcueid.
>tfw literally treefucker
>>
>>133761590
My point is that whenever he pleases he can create a twist or unexpected loophole, which as far as I'm concerned throws any respect I have for him out the window when it comes to that sort of shit.

I like seriously don't give a shit though. It's not even a good universe on the whole, nor a good ruleset, so whatever. Nasu doesn't understand K.I.S.S.
>>
>>133761788
Any author can do that, though. It's the prerogative of an author. So long as your revelations are consistent there is no issue.
>>
>>133761817
>Any author can do that
And what, that makes it okay? No.
>>
>>133761846
There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing "not okay" about it to begin with. It's just a literary tool to create intrigue. Whether it works or falls flat is a matter of taste.
>>
>>133761964
When you employ it so constantly it just makes the text crap, far as I'm concerned. "BUT NO WAIT" wears down its effectiveness fast, and Nasu's writing is almost built on "BUT NO WAIT".
>>
>>133749482
no
>>
>>133762021
Well that's just you. It doesn't mean his universe is intrinsically illogical, nor is it objectively bad.
>>
>>133750737
>YES.
my sides
>>
>>133762165
If he breaks his own rules regularly, I consider that illogical.

I don't think "twisting a rule" doesn't count as breaking it.
>>
what's up with this pile of chunni shit
>>
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Can Shiki's mystic eyes of death perception beat Madara?
>>
>>133761291
Meaningless and ignorant post. Ultimate One which is Arc's bread and butter is stated to be an Authority (a Miracle)

And considering Nasu considers Archetype Earth as part of Arc's power set and Archetype subtly influences Arc's thoughts and fights for her. Arc's strongest attacks Alt Nagel is done by AE taking over, you cannot simply separate the two since fighting one means fighting the other as well.
>>
>>133762565
no
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>>133761582
Read the fucking thread you ignorant retard. Everything you are sperging was addressed already.

>Crimson Moon is NOT Archetype Earth.

True.

>Crimson Moon is Type Moon.

Yes.

>she herself fights that very notion as well as the notion that she is Archetype Earth.

Wrong. Arc is not the original Crimson Moon. But the part of her that shows up in her dreams IS Arc, this was pointed out in KT as well as in MBAACC. And no Arc knows and accepts AE is a part of her personality, see her win quote against AE.

>Archetype Earth only even appears in a dream scenario, a 'what-if' moment.

Way to show your ignorance and stupidity. Play the route up to the ending. Arc's MBAACC scenario is explicitly not a dream. And herself can let Archetype take over whenever she wants. She casually threatened Ciel to switch over if she didn't bring Shiki, the only reason she doesn't is because AE would want to destroy the world, but after the ending that's not a problem anymore.
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>>133750563
He hasnt fucked Sion.

From that all I can conclude is that Shiki has shit taste.
>>
>>133763062
She can still only "switch over" during hologram summers, though.
If she wants to do so during a normal time period, she has to reclaim her hair from Altrouge.
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>>133755683
Ea if used at its full power reveals the "truth". The "truth" is basically a Primordial Earth, before anything has been established on it. (for reference, in F/SN Gilgamesh is never seen using Ea beyond around 5% of its power)

And its likely to have this effect on whatever planetary body it is on as Ea itself is made from material that is not of Earth, which is why Shirou cant trace it. Meaning it would likely effect Types and beings from other planets.

The only actual defence against it is Avalon, which by all means isnt really a defence rather than an instant teleportation to a different reality.
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>>133763076
Implying
>>
>>133763303
>(for reference, in F/SN Gilgamesh is never seen using Ea beyond around 5% of its power)
That's fanon bullshit. He uses it at full power in the Fate route. (Unless you're meaning how Gilgamesh cannot use its "full power" because Ea is based on its user's power to begin with and Gilgamesh is a finite being, if any limits exist Nasu hasn't talked about them)
The whole "truth" nonsense doesn't actually mean the attack is more deadly than usual, you know. It just means Nasu is telling us what's happening in the surroundings.
>>
>>133763392
> He uses it at full power in the Fate route.

No he doesnt. He uses exactly the amount of power that is required to overwhelm and Excalliblast.

He uses it on or near full power in F/HA to utterly destroy the Grailbeasts.
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>>133763207
>during hologram summers

Except she threatened Ciel to switch over AFTER the hologram summer ended. This is completely baseless, there is not a single piece of evidence that could lead you to believe AE could only manifest due to Tatari, like at all, specially when AE fights Osiris and Riesbyfe as part of her story and nobody says anything. The explanation given for her not manifesting before was because she has long intervals between awakenings.
>>
>>133763076
Sion a best. Shiki fucked up.
>>
>>133763433
The final one is full power, but that gets Avalon'd.
>>
>>133763303
Ea can be overpowered by higher levels of power. So no Avalon is not the only defense. The best defense is offense after all.
>>
>>133763433
1. Excalibur's output is right around the same as Enuma Elish's, you know. Yes, this includes its max-power forms seen in Hollow Ataraxia and CCC, which were identical to the same max-power attack at the end of the Fate route.
2. No, he was using Enuma Elish to wipe Saber out completely, it wasn't to counter Excalibur but to annihilate her. (In the first place, he casted first. Why would it be to "overwhelm Excalibur" when he explicitly said he was no longer playing around, powered Ea's rotation to full, and then told her to vanish?)
>>
>>133763511
>Ea can be overpowered by higher levels of power

There are extremely few things that could overpower Ea.
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>>133763448
What's that? Rosario + Vampire?
>>
>>133763542
Like it or not F/HA showed us what a "full powered" attack from Ea was and it was not what was used in Fate.
>>
Why is Type Mercury on Earth again
>>
>>133763542
The thing is, Excalibur's output isn't even near the EE, unless you are talking about Prototype Excalibur, which destroyed Proto Archer's 'planet destroying attack'
>>
>>133763596
It was. It was the exact same wave of destruction that sends a distortion through space. It was just described with more detail.
>>
>>133763611
It showed up early for the apocalypse.
>>
>>133763632
Except that's bullshit by both Nasu's terms and every single shown example.
Remember, Excalibur cancels out Enuma Elish enough to allow Saber to survive it.
Enuma Elish's output < Excalibur's output + Saber's HP.
Now she's a pretty tanky hero due to her armor and dragon reactor, but she's not as sturdy as, say, Karna or Heracles. The gap in output is therefore not that excessive.
>>
>>133763611
She's a goofup girl who got a distress call thousands of years too early and just decided to nap it off.
>>
>>133763564
Arc switching with AE and telling her opponent to know their place when Nasu?
>>
>>133763688
When he's just fucking around. He's not trying to actually kill her until it gets blocked by Avalon.
>>
>>133763688
You're never going to convince a Gilfag.
>>
>>133763688
Gil pulled his fucking punch with his first Ea blast on her though, you dingus.

He was degrading her and trying to crush her resistance to him. He still wanted her as his waifu but that point.
>>
>>133763736
Well no, especially when you are wrong as fuck.
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>>133763596
Ea was being partially nullified by Excalibur.
>>
>>133763688
>>133763736

I'm not the one who replied before and neither a gilfag.
Also Gilgamesh underestimates everyone, and especially on Fate where he was all over Saber, of course he had no intention of killing her. Avalon being the ultimate shield (which is kinda like another dimension), is the only thing that can defend against Ea's full power, not that it means something when everything around you gets wiped out
>>
>>133763731
>>133763750
Fuck's sake, Ea has only two modes.
"Sword of Separation Ea" and "Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth Enuma Elish".
He was not using Ea in that clash, he was using Enuma Elish. That is the full power version, that is the only full power version there is.
From Fate/Complete Material III
>More correctly speaking, “Sword of Rupture – Ea” is the Noble Phantasm, “Enuma Elish” is the state under which Sword of Rupture – Ea unleashes its maximum output.

There are only those two throttles. If he says "Enuma Elish" when he's launching it, it's full power.
He thought Excalibur was strong enough to contend with its full power (presumably neutralize), and was amused when it was not.
>>
>>133763838
Except all the times in the Fate route where he's not using its full power. And then the one specific time he attempts to go all out it gets blocked.
>>
>>133763890
Fanon. Bullshit.
Nowhere in the narration does it ever say he held back. It does say he puts his maximum power into it at the last one, but that doesn't mean the gap between that one and every other one is fucking "5% vs 100%".
>>
>gilfags crash awful arc wank thread

It's a microcosm of Type-Moon threads
>>
>>133764127
>it's wank even if it's a meaningful debate unrelated to powerlevels

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting
>>
>>133764258
It's good that you understand.
>>
>>133763933
First few are weak enough for Excalibur to slightly offset it to allow her to survive. Before the final one even reaches full, full power, it's the best she can do to push it back for a literal second. There's definitely a difference there.
>>
>>133764384
Her ability to use Excalibur by then was diminished equally, she couldn't fill her blade as she lacked the energy.
Hell, her last "Excalibur" was fueled by the magical energy of her nearly-destroyed armor.
>>
>>133764495
Excalibur 1, 2, and 4 are normal (with 4 maybe being CS boosted to normal levels). Excalibur 3 is the only weird one.
>>
>>133764127
>>133764297
>butthurt retard that embarrased himself and was proven wrong

Go be salty elsewhere.
>>
>>133764615
The second one definitely isn't normal, she tries to charge it and then stumbles without being able to cast. She then casts it in the middle of being hit by Enuma Elish.
>>
>>133764854
You're embarrassing yourself, stop posting.
>>
>>133764901
>unable to make a point
>thinks someone else is embarrassing themself

You are hilarious.
>>
>>133764854
>>133764901
>>133765159
>133765159
You're both retards. Stop.
>>
>>133761766
Wut really? I mean I know she wanted to spare Shiki when she basically wanted to destroy all life on Earth, but I didn't know the gland was still working.
>>
>>133763076
Sion is Merkava's bitch.
>>
>>133765256
Shiki still can't get Riesbyfe to like him.
>>
>>133763723
>tfw Crimson Moon keks Arcueid and AE
>>
>>133765588
Well that makes two girls who somehow managed to escape the gland, it's like a miracle.
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>>133765497
Isn't everyone?
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>>133754621
>>133755206
[Citation Needed]
>>
>>133765675
The other is Ryougi, right? As expected of Ryougi.
>>
>>133766058
Well to be fair, she fell for the other glasses boy in her world, I bet if she had met Shiki first it would have been a different story.
>>
>>133766058
Tsukihime doesn't seem to interested in him.
>>
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>>133765871
For what?
ORT not having a concept of death? Type-Moon Character Material, same as all the other information about ORT.
Arcueid not having a concept of death when she's in full Ultimate One mode is just from Tsukihime.
It's not a matter of being alien, it's a matter of being perfect. Perfect beings will not die, now or ever. They'll last until everything has spiraled back into the root.
>>
>>133766058
Tsukihime. She still is into Tohno though, ableit not Shiki, so technically the Gland works.
>>
>>133766170
Isn't she lesbian with the other ditzy one or something?
>>
>>133766115
If you believe you are right about the concept of death, you need to give us proof.
It's not enough to say "It's in the character material."
Tell us where it is, and if possible, translate it.
>>
>>133766297
It's been translated for years, you dumbass.
>>
>>133766115
How would Achilles or Adam's immortality compare to Arc's and ORT's? Not having lines means you can't be destroyed too, would they be able to tank some powerful NPs like Clarent or Balmung?
>>
>>133766339
Ultimate Ones can be physically reduced to nothing, but it seems that they don't die. Venus had death imposed upon it, but it was OK after a few years. Something like Pluto being reduced to a bloody mist might take longer. Kill either of the those two, and they're just dead.
>>
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>>133766297
Last paragraph of Type-Moon Character Material page 71


Source: ???
Ultimate One of Mercury(?).
One of the pals of the Ultimate Ones appearing in Notes...but is more like one of those clumsy girls you see on anime in that it landed on Earth just one step earlier (around 5000 years) by accident. It's thought that he's closed himself off in his Crystal Valley until the promised time.
...Actually, might not really be the strongest life form that received Earth's SOS sign.
Can't be killed by Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. Doesn't have the concept of death so you'll have to destroy it physically
>>
>>133766334
What?!
Since when?
>>
>>133766247
Hanepin obviously wants the dick.
>>
>>133766339
They'd be able to tank such attacks with sheer HP, the firepower needed to destroy their bodies is far greater than any hero's ability, except maybe ultimate Excalibur (which was made to fight extraterrestrials) and Enuma Elish.
>>
>>133750301
What about Shiki & Shiki?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3So3ExD3BY4
>>
>>133766741
Gae Bold work too? Nasu said it works on beings with ridiculously high HP.
>>
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>>133765588
It's hard when when girl have Bazett level autism. The fact that Shiki think she's a dude doesn't help either.
>>
>>133767947
This series any good?
>>
>>133767763
Brunestud and Arcueid possibly, other aristoteles would need to have viable hearts for the curse to anchor onto.
>>
>>133767763
yes
>>
>>133754428
What I find funny is that
Type>true Ancestor>God>other shit

And now it is something like
Primordial God>Type>TA>God>other shit
>>
>>133754799
>>133754621
Except they have know limits.

Nasu confirmed that Arc with full power all back up and everything she can rely would only maybe have a chance against Amaterasu and even that is only when they fight on the moon that gives Arc territorial Advantage and actually weakens Amaterasu.
>>
>>133769140
By primordial god do you mean BB? Problem is in the Moon Cell gods benefit from a boost given to divine entities. And even then Nasu still stated normal Arc was on the same cheat category as BB.
>>
>>133755040
Well from what I remembered Earth/Gaia has no true own Type because it already created life and thus lacked the necessary power to form one, that is why it made the deal with Type-Moon.

Concerning stars, they might have them.
Look at Amaterasu, who seemingly can fuck up Types pretty badly.
Her beeing considered a goddess might be just the same misassumption that happend with Arc.
>>
>>133769276
See>>133769403 Amaterasu receives a boost in the Moon Cell. It's also Earth borne Amaterasu so Arc's Blut probably doesn't have much effect. You also need to consider Earth is nearly dead in the Extra verse, meaning Arc is likely running on fumes.
>>
>>133755603
>>133755527
Ea has a base stat multi and can break ist Output Limit by adding a bonus based on the wielders wealth.

What Ea does is reveal the true form of the world, it breaks apart Gaia's reality marble and might even have existed before Gaia in order to be cappable of such a feat.
>>
>>133763542
Well we once got numbers on them and Excalibur had an output of 800 and Ea up to 4000 not including wealth.
But yes for some reason Nasu later retconed those number to simply about equal as 4000 is really close to 800.
>>
>>133769518
>>133769403
Primordial God, that mother thing or what it was.
Concidering Amaterasu I do not remember any other boosts aside from those for Arc mentioned, I think it was simply a hypothetical question to Nasu who would win between the two.
To which he stated Arc might have a chance under these circumstances she might have a chance.
>>
>people actually bringing F/E shit into discussions

That series was just one step too fucking far.
>>
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>>133770194
>Incidentally, in the EXTRA world where the information world has become more mainstream than the physical world, she isn't so all-powerful.
>In the information world, legends become truth, so the deifications of natural phenomena, the so-called "Gods" often have powers greater than that of the original natural phenomena.
>Still, there's no mistake about her being on the broken level if she gained her sanity back.
>Her authority of "reducing all abilities of any target to a sixth if the stage is the moon" should be an effective countermeasure against other enemies on the same broken tier.
>Since itfs a conceptual numerical alteration, there's no means of avoiding it while on the moon. Even BB who became the Moon Cell is subject to this restriction.

- EXTRA、CCCだけの話なら、金色白面を『どれほど勝率が低くとも撃破できる状況にできる』のは彼女ぐ らいである。
- If we're talking strictly about EXTRA and CCC then the only character who would be in a position to defeat the Golden Fair Face* would be her (彼女 referring to Arc) even though the chances clearly wouldn't be in her favor.

From White Berserker's entry.
>>
>>133770701
Sorrry english is not my mother language so I have a bit of a problem getting this without context or is that really all that is written in that page?
>>
>>133771360
That's all. This is the first part, but it's unrelated to powerlevels.

Berserker (White) [Servant?]
The Servant you fight in the fourth round, version 2.
Her Master, Gatou Monji.
A funny vamp with disheveled hair and vicious crimson eyes.
Fanservice, as people would call it.
Not actually a Servant, but a mysterious creature Gato brought with him from the Earth. A princess who doesn't seem to be getting any time to shine but has been quite busy, like becoming a cat, or becoming Yuzu-nee, or becoming a silicon lifeform. She's hoping very much for a speedy release for the remake.
>>
>>133769140
>>133769403
Types are still above primordial gods.
Potnia Theron was needed to control even a fragment of the Moon Cell. The Moon Cell on its own is far, far beyond B.B.
B.B. at her most powerful became an avatar and a fragment of the Moon Cell, which is Type-Moon.
>>
>>133771796
The Moon Cell is much more than a Type. It's just called the defacto-TM in the encyclopedia.
>>
>>133771943
It is the same as a Type, a universe contained in a planet. How is it any more?
>>
>>133771999
Don't think any Type has been described as more than an avatar of a planet/planet itself.
>>
>>133772163
They carry their natural laws with them like a mantle, Arcueid and ORT are the same in that regard. They're realities unto themselves.
>>
>>133772228
They impart their inner selves onto the environment, but that's a far, far cry from the Moon Cell.
>>
>>133772284
How so?
>>
>>133772561
If the universe is the internet, then the Moon Cell is the only computer we know of that can access and record it. Normally, all it does is record data and can create a perfect digital replica of anything it records but reaching the center (or if you are admin) allows you to rewrite the universe in the short time you have before you are deleted. That's why Sakura can create 2 bodies for you and her in the true end for CC, technically she can spawn a blackhole and put you in there too.
>>
>>133749482
Yes.
>>
>>133772928
How can the Servants (even in Origin form) fight BB who had become one with the Moon Cell? Also BB still gets compared to Arc here>>133770701 Sure she is powerful, but she shouldn't be that much more powerful than Types.
>>
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I hope Nasu likes Bloodborn and we will se more xenomorphs and cosmology in future works
>>
>>133772928
>>133773166
Arc gets compared to Amaterasu, in her 30% form.
Her 100% form (AKA Archetype: Earth the Type-Moon equivalent) would blow her the fuck out.
>>
>>133772284
>>133772928
It's not their inner selves, that is a reality marble. They rewrite reality to abide by the new laws of the world, not their inner selves but however reality is decided by the other planets.
The reason gravity makes things fall down and time moves at one second per second is because Earth says that's how it works.
In the Crystal Valley, that's not how it works.
Because world souls dictate what is and isn't reality and events are shifted to match, I don't see how that is any different than the moon cell.
Planets can say "no, that doesn't exist" and crush things out of existence. Earth naturally does that to contradictory things (e.g. something that is dead cannot be alive; living dead things get disintegrated; this is why servants don't last long without a master).

Really, to say the moon cell is Type-Moon just is in line with the powers of planets we have already seen. Rewriting the laws of the universe is just how they work.
>>
>>133773259
He loves Bloodborne.
I think he even expanded his lore on werewolves in the Nasuverse to match up with the lore in Bloodborne.
>>
>>133749482
no.
>>
>>133774296
The Souls games and Bloodborne are the reasons why we dont have the Tsukihime remake done by now.
>>
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>>133774546
>Tsukihime remake comes out.
>Entire lore has been changed to Bloodborne stuff.
>Crimson Moon is now Moon Presence.
>Demonkind and Dead Apostles are now Beasts.
>True Ancestors are now Great Ones.
>yfw you realize that this is how it was since the very beginning.
>>
>>133774546
No one will translate it anyway
>>
People can say what they want about TM anime adaptions but holy fuck do they all have some great fucking music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYOdfwY3kCg
>>
>>133775072
>all these OPs/EDs
Puts it in perspective how much attention F/SN has gotten over the years
>>
>>133773770
Arc on moon is a comparision of only 30%, get the 30% shit out of your head.
>>
>>133775072
Type moon has always had good music.
>>
>>133749482
yes
>>
>>133775497
Literally what are you saying
>>
>>133775650
True

As far as the UFO table anime OPs go I'd rate them

Brave Shine > Oath Sign > To the beginning > Ideal White
>>
>>133750737
>with the strength and power of a great white shark
Literally written by Nasu
>>
>>133776320
To the beginning > Oath Sign
Thread posts: 228
Thread images: 30


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