Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1295

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なるべく諦めない！
なせば大抵なんとかなる！

Time spent shitposting is time spent not studying. If you're about to engage in a silly argument or off-topic discussion, close the thread instead. Use your time productively!

Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs
Work hard and give your best every day until your idols become your rivals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmEAYVKDymk

Just realized that 親(おや) is the same character as in 親切 and 親しい (しん).

>>133585751
Fucking fake fisherman trying to tell people how to live their lives.

I would like to ask a question:
What does ってくらい mean when in 運動したがってるんじゃないかってくらい?

I tried asking in another thread, and I got some help understanding it but not completely, but then someone dragged the discussion completely off topic for nothing. I would be very grateful if I can get any more help with this phrase.

>>133584345

Fuck, it's 17
It's just the sum of the two digits of one number in a row plus the sum of the two digits of the other number. (1+3) + (4+9) = 17

>>133585853
Nigga this is why you're just going to be doing Anki reps until you eventually give up.

>Almost completed core6k
Im going to feel a little empty inside when theres no more new words everyday

>>133585877
The ってくらい makes you sound like a valley girl, as namasensei would put it. It just adds a bit of uncertainty, which is common when talking about other peoples feelings and such.

"So like, you kinda mean you..." etc. って感じ is the same deal but more for your own feels.

That's how I see it anyway, might not be 100% accurate.

>グッドマーク
>Thumbs up
Japan...

>>133586137
Ok, that makes perfect sense in context. Thank you very much.

>>133585913
what should I do next then? I'm stuck in this exact situation

>>133585877
というくらい
意味上は「と思うくらい」がわかりやすいかな

>>133586316
I was about to ask what would というくらい mean in this situation, but
>意味上は「と思うくらい」がわかりやすいかな
pretty much explains it.

Thanks a lot

>>133586315
Read.

>>133585913
You too.

Read and mine words. Look up and study the grammar in sentences you don't understand.
If you're so inclined, play Japanese games and interact with Japanese people, do language exchanges over skype or whatever.

tl;dr to get better at Japanese, practice Japanese.
Anki is useful to kickstart your vocabulary, but after that only use it as a supplement to actual practice.

>ったらない
>といったらありはしない
>解釈：どう言ったらいいかわからないほど…だ
u wot

>>133585220
I'm this guy, if you would help me I'd be thankful.

>>133586519
Just get the meaning from context and feeling it.

>>133586520
RTK is fine, and actually fairly valuable if you want to write. If you don't want to use RTK then just pick them up from vocab after memorizing radicals

>>133586659
I guess I'll give it a shot before I give my opinion, giving an opinion on something I haven't used yet was retarded. I'm sorry, I'm applying for the MEXT scholarship. I excel at math chemistry physics and english, even though my native tongue isn't english. I have a very high chance of getting the scholarship. So I'd appreciate some guidance as to how to approach learning japanese by myself, since the entire 5 years undergrad course will be taken in japanese. Those of you who have achieved a high proficiency in japanese, enlighten me please.

>>133586827
You're taking a 5 year undergrad course conducted in a language you don't know?

>>133586902
Actually, the first year is some sort of 'cram school'. You study japanese intensively for a year in japan before doing the undergrad course at college. They prepare you for math physics, history and chemistry too. I'm doing Engineering by the way, thanks for the input.

I am clinically retarded.
What's the difference between
どうして友達じゃないんですか
and
どうして友達じゃないですか

?

>>133586972
>Actually, the first year is some sort of 'cram school'. You study japanese intensively for a year in japan before doing the undergrad course at college.
Oh god, you're fucked.

>>133586827
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5IPArDxO40
Watch this guy's videos. In short: practice a lot, read a lot. Consume a lot of content, a lot of context. The more time you spend with the language the better you get, objectively (with considerations that you'll need to consistently engage in more difficult material as you improve). The one thing this place will recommend that this guy doesn't is using anki to really grind anki/vocab into your memory; but even then he only says that because he doesn't find it enjoyable, not *necessarily* because it isn't effective.

>>133586999
Why? In an intensive environment in the country of the target language, even normies can learn languages especially the speaking/listening part.

Kanji is stupid as fuck and the only problems Japanese would have with a complete romanization would come from the Japanese language itself being shit.

>>133587494
1 year to be proficient enough to take courses in physics? Not a chance

Is there any difference using 使う, 使用, and 利用?
i understand all of them as using the verb "to use" (使う, 使用する, 利用する)

>>133587512
thanks for the input

>>133587494
>>133587545
Yeah you're probably fucked

Today I wouldn't allow myself to watch the last 4 episodes of Glass Mask until I did my reps. It was a constant battle between my desire to watch it and my unending procrastination. But the battle is finally over, so I'm going to go make some popcorn and enjoy myself.

>>133587512
No one will be able to read old documents though. Gooks have this problem now.

>>133587673
Nice, I like stories like these. You deserve it, bro. Have fun.

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>>133587673
Have you seen Oniisama e? It's great, I started it because of all your talk of Glass Mask.

>>133587494
There are also people who move to Japan and never really learn the language. I don't know how much time you have left before you go there but I suggest you start spending a lot of time studying Japanese right now.

正鵠

>>133587758
>There are also people who move to Japan and never really learn the language.
I mean what the fuck. If you're going to live in a country why the fuck would you avoid learning the language? What is the fucking point? Are those people okay with being the same as mudslims, sitting in their own puddle of stale shit instead of integrating?

>>133587673
I'm on episode 19 right now. It didn't grab me as much as I thought it would but I'll probably finish it in a couple days

Щ

>>133587834
In order to really improve in Japanese you need to actively engage with it, which is easy to not do.

Furthermore, I read a story about a guy who was good enough to speak with his wife and order food and stuff, but when he went to his step-father's house, a swordsmith, the older language and difficult vocabulary meant he couldn't even understand the step-father's Japanese. So despite "knowing" Japanese, he didn't *know* Japanese, which is also an easy pitfall to stumble into.

>>133587752
I don't remember adding it, but it is on my Plan to Watch list. I might watch it next. I've been on a shoujo kick recently with Nana and Glass Mask.

>>133587835
Normally I would say that if you watched 19 episodes in a day it must have grabbed you, but you seem to watch a lot of anime, so maybe I'm wrong.

>>133586975
They both mean:
Why aren't (we/you/they) friends?
except the first one is taken aback that (we/you/they) aren't friends, and the second one is just asking a regular question.

The ん in the first sentence is the same as the explanatory の

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/explanation

>>133587758
>>133587041
>>133586999
>>133587545
>>133587494
>>133587578
The scholarship test is on may 2016, I leave for Japan on june 2017, then 1 year of japanese intensively over there until june 2018. Should I just grind anki, study grammar from tae kim and DOJG, and writing from RTK? What would you guys suggest?

>>133587555
利用 is more specific, for things that you benefit from using. Notice how it has the kanji from 便利？

使用、使う are very general, just use these if you don't have a reason not to.

But honestly by the time you're writing Japanese you should be able to figure out things like these on your own, by googling ｘとｙの違い etc.

Can さわって be construed as "Look at" in anyway? This in the fan translation was "He took a long look at my bum!" and I can't imagine they'd fuck up a simple word like さわる. The guy she was talking about is just a random guy they met in a cave 45 seconds ago who said:

「この洞くつには　すごい指輪が かくされているらしいぜ。もっとも　このオレにさえ　見つけられないのに 女連れの色男　などに　探せるとは思えないがな。」

>>133588081
Yea
I mean thats pretty much what we do, You should make good progress if you have a year to study

>>133588081
>2 and a half years
Yeah, that's plenty.

I would say just do what makes you improve. Consider a lot of resources and use the ones that make you improve. The only thing unique to you, I guess, is that reading physics textbooks would be a smart use of time in the later stages

>>133588081
My best guess would be that as long as you spend your time during year 1 in Japan well (make Japanese friends, use Japanese daily), you'll naturally get used to the grammar. So maybe it's better to focus more on vocab, as that's sort of the biggest barrier of entry, just the massive wall of words you need to know. Of course you shouldn't neglect grammar complete, you need to know the basics at least.

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>>133588118
ありがとう名無しさん!

>>133588081
You need to make sure you put in at least a couple of hours each day. If you slack off you're definitively not gonna make it. But that is plenty of time if you put some effort into it.

>>133588151
>>133588238
>>133588123
Oh, I see. Thank you guys, really. You've opened my mind a lot on this subject, If I'm succesfull with this I will be forever grateful to you.
So when I expand my vocab I should start going into physics textbooks (since I know the material in my native language) and mine vocabulary from there, I guess.
>>133588327
I will most definitely not slack off, it's a one in a lifetime oportunity. Thanks for the motivation, though.

>>133588120
It's nice that you posted some context, but you should also post the さわって sentence. I could see it maybe being something like 目で触って in the context of him checking her out and making her uncomfortable, based on some google results.

>>133588081
You have more time than I thought you would, should be fine if you start studying daily. I would suggest watching anime or anything else in Japanese to get listening practice. Even with English subs if you are paying attention to what is being said it will help you get used to listening Japanese

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>>133588368

Fuck, I'm sorry, I forgot to post the image.

>>133588381
Will do, thank you. I will invest a couple of hours for japanese, and 8 hours per day to physics, chemistry and math. Will do some listening practice with anime or ニコニコ, reading practice with some manga (when I am able to) and some exercise to keep me sane. Keep in mind this is my 5th language, so I guess I am going to learn it a tad faster since I'm used to studying languages. Once again, I'm really gratefull to you guys, thanks for the help and advice. If you have something to add please do.

>>133588353
Isn't the 1 year in Japan supposed to help you with specific physics and math vocabulary?

Anyway if I were you I would just focus on doing 40-60 minutes of anki each day, alongside with at least 1 hour of manga/vn reading for the first year and a half. The second year you should expand into reading newspapers and wikipedia articles and the likes so you get used to "real" and formal japanese. Save the tech language for your year in japan.

>>133588353
>If I'm succesfull with this I will be forever grateful to you.
If you do reading and listening practice in Japanese every day it's genuinely impossible to fail. The only way to fail in Japanese is to not expose yourself to it.
>>133588543
>Keep in mind this is my 5th language, so I guess I am going to learn it a tad faster since I'm used to studying languages.
Whaaat? That's amazing. I feel kind of dumb for saying the stuff I did becuase it's stuff you know.

>>133587922
>Normally I would say that if you watched 19 episodes in a day it must have grabbed you, but you seem to watch a lot of anime, so maybe I'm wrong.
Yeah, if I don't feel like playing games I'm usually watching anime or browsing 4chan, or both. I watched 5 episodes yesterday so "only" 15 episodes so far today. I've been watching 10+ episodes of conan pretty much daily before this

>>133588525
I can't see that as meaning anything other than "he groped me", maybe the translators wanted to water it down a bit, for whatever reason?

>>133588525
Censorship in fan translations? Top kek

>>133588607

Okay, so I'm not missing anything. They probably did, a lot of translators are pretty liberal. Just look at that FF IV fan-translation.

>>133588632

I think Laruffi used to do that.

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>>133588525
My dick

>learn the hiragana
>excited to start vocab
>nope, there's more hiragana that have two little dashes
>fuck, okay

>learn those
>alright, time for vocab
>nope, there's even more that have a little circle
>fuck, okay

>learn those too
>finally time for vo-
>fuck you, there's hiragana that are slightly smaller versions of regular letters
>God fucking damnit

>OKAY FUCK I GOT THOSE TOO CAN WE MOVE ON
>did you know if you push certain hiragana together, the sound is slightly different than the otherwise literal reading?
>why does this language exist

>okay, finally, we're done that's it, that's everything
>aaaaactually sometimes there's old unused hiragana that show up in older words and c-

Does the hiragana wild ride ever fucking end

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>>133588907
>Does the hiragana wild ride ever fucking end
Oh boy anon you've got no idea what's in store for you

>>133588592
> I feel kind of dumb for saying the stuff I did becuase it's stuff you know.
Don't, japanese is different from all the other languages i've learned. It's really difficult. My native tongue is spanish, I've become fluent in english, speak guarani, portuguese and now japanese. Your advice helps.

>>133588907

I'm going to break your heart. You don't know all the hiragana yet.

ゐ
ゑ
ぢ

>>133589014
He said
>aaaaactually sometimes there's old unused hiragana that show up in older words and c-
So that bit is already part of his memerant

>>133589065

Shit, I missed that. Oh well. I would mention ゔ but it's literally never used.

>>133589014
>>133589106
My keyboard app doesn't even have those.

>>133588907
Just in case you didn't learn these, have some more small hiragana ぁぃぅぇぉ
For example とぅ is tu

Don't forget to learn katakana too

>>133589140
You'll see them sometimes, like in よゐこ.

>>133589140

I'm not sure when they fell into disuse, but it was a long time ago. You only ever really see them outside of old text in fictional text that's supposed to look old. I see ゐ more often than I see ゑ. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen that one or ぢ in use, but apparently ぢ shows up more often than them, or so I was told once. ゔ just exists because there needs to be a hiragana equivalent of ヴ.

Give me some chill japanese music to listen to while doing my reps.

>>133589242
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=28&v=F9L4q-0Pi4E

>>133589185
Is it because they're from Osaka?

>>133589242
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVdYES-i35Y
You should be able to sing along easily too.

>>133589354
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/よゐこ#.E6.9D.A5.E6.AD.B4.E3.83.BB.E4.BA.BA.E7.89.A9
As far as I can tell, they were told to change their name, but in resistance used the character ゐ. I probably misread that though, I was missing some vocab and just ignored them

>>133587860
Ћ

>>133588907
>A small 「つ」 is inserted between two characters to carry the consonant sound of the second character to the end of the first. For example, if you inserted a small 「つ」 between 「び」 and 「く」 to make 「びっく」, the / k / consonant sound is carried back to the end of the first character to produce "bikku". Similarly, 「はっぱ」 becomes "happa", 「ろっく」 becomes "rokku" and so on and so forth.

I do not understand.

>>133589676
http://forvo.com/word/%E3%81%BF%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A4/

>>133589676
You're a fucking thick cunt then.

biku + っ (biっku) = bikku

>>133589722

gakko
がっこ


http://forvo.com/word/%E5%AD%A6%E6%A0%A1/#ja

>>133589722
>>133589754
>>133589822
But how is that different?

>>133589822
goku
ごく

>>133589851
You append the sound of the first letter after the っ to the end of the proceeding sound and add a pause. How is it not different?

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>>133589851
What does it feel like to be an illiterate moron?

>>133589851
I don't know, what's the difference between Niger and nigger?

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>>133589992
>I don't know, what's the difference between Niger and nigger?

>>133588525
source

>>133589106
rikai doesn't recognize it

>>133589445
Hold up, isn't that fucking 課長s group??
あっぶねぇー

>>133590334
Yep

>>133590081
Some dragon quest, don't know which

>>133588081
How old are you?

>>133590081
Dragon quest 5. Looks like the ps2 port, but it could be the DS port upscaled.
Best game in the series btw

>>133589676
say "shekel"

now say "impeccable"

the "cc" takes more time than the "k" because it's geminated. the mouth stops on it.

I'm only helping you because the explanations for beginners are fucking retarded.

>>133590725
The DS version wishes it looked like the PS2 version. PS2 version emulated at a 1080p resolution and the orchestrated OST makes for the definitive DQV experience.

>>133591000
you can upscale DS now too now that the mainstream DS emulator has figured out how to upscale without weird hacks in the emulation code

>>133591000
Too bad PS2 emulation is a fucking bitch.

>>133590917
You can't use that as an example. English doesn't work that way.

We use double-letters to clarify the pronunciation of a word, not to add a pause in it. Think about the words "biker" and "bicker." The "k" noise is identical; the only thing that changes is the way the vowel right before it is pronounced.
Same with words like "rated" and "ratted."

三叉路
>new kanji
>3 strokes
thanks lad

>>133589242
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7fpiVqmMAk

>>133591068
It'd still have worse graphics and music though. And DeSmuME doesn't have a way to up the internal resolution yet (not talking about upscale here). Are you talking about DraStic?

>>133591333
Not for DQV thankfully, even a toaster can run it at 1.5x the native resolution. PCSX2 has improved a lot since its revival. I played it just a while ago with no problems at all.

>>133591342
I used those specific words because they happen to geminate by default, not because one has a double consonant, you stupid cunt.

>>133591417
三 really should have been one of the first Kanji you learned.

:^)

>>133591581
>PCSX2 has improved a lot since its revival
PCSX2 literally never died. The only thing they hadn't been doing was posting stable releases, because a vast minority of the userbase was actually using those. Nearly Everyone was using nightly builds.

>>133591607
>Nearly Everyone was using nightly builds.
The few fagboys who post on the forums don't count as 'nearly everyone'.

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>>133591582
Except they don't, you stupid cunt. Impeccable has the same k sound as shekel.

>>133591634
>buildbot goes down
>everywhere that has anything to do with ps2 emulation goes into uproar
"A few fagboys" indeed

>>133591649
Of course it's the same k sound. It still geminates. Gemination doesn't change the consonant itself.

>>133591582
>>133591649
A better example is bookkeeper.

>>133591691
Okay.

>>133591687
neither sound takes longer to say, though. they're completely exactly the same.

does it take the same amount of time to make the k sound in impeccable as it does in something like ひっくり返る?

>>133591691
this is true.

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>元気ないならあげますよ

Is this あげる used as in "to give" or is it used as in 上げる/to raise?
Basically do you give genki energy or do you raise it?

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>>133591818
>neither sound takes longer to say, though. they're completely exactly the same.
Go on.
>does it take the same amount of time to make the k sound in impeccable as it does in something like ひっくり返る?
Yes. It's also the same in bookkeeper.

>>133591870
give

>>133591870
In this case, she's giving it to her.

>>133591870
Give.

>>133588120
またドラクエやってるの？おにいちゃん

I want おにいちゃんさん　to stop.

>>133591962
I don't.

>>133591898
Out of curiosity, are you ESL? If not, where do you live?

>>133591898
well you must a fucking australian or something then, I've never heard anyone put stress on the "cc" sound in "impeccable" before

>>133591898
What kind of English do you speak nigger?

>>133591870
What's the difference? The end result will be the same in both cases.

I don't know you're all being so anal about this kind of thing when it's well known language varies down to the fucking area you're born in, let alone countries, states, provinces, etc.

>>133591993
>>133592028
>>133592040
I'm nativeborn american and live in the northeast. I speak a normal (= rhotic and has cot-caught merger) accent for my region. So my tendency is probably not entirely unrepresentative of the population around me.

Of course, English doesn't *distinguish* on gemination, so dialects might vary. I brought up impeccable because it was the first word that wasn't a compound word to come to mind that definitely geminates when I speak it in isolation.

I'm sure that there are dialects out there where even bookkeeper doesn't geminate.

>too busy playing vidya to study outside of anki reps
wat do

>>133593250
quit

>that feel when you finally read the untranslated work that pushed you to start learning Japanese

Feels SO good.

>>133593317
What was it?

>>133591870
Sauce?

>>133593317
ナイスブログ、先輩

>>133593317
>tfw you accidently learnt Japanese and have no goals

Feels like nothing

>>133593592
Move to japan, fuck japanese girls.

下がる
下げる
下る
下ろす
下りる

Wow core just bend me over and fuck me in the ass all at once. At least the first two are easy to remember.

Does とらぶるDarkness also has furigana？I want to read super interesting stuff.

>>133593741
>not already knowing all of them from watching literally thousands of hours of anime

>>133593672
I prefer 2D girls

>>133593805
good thing japan also has all the best 2d girls

>>133593741
Don't forget 下り

下関

これなんかもかなりひどいとおもうよ。おにいちゃん

>>133593894
Yeah I actually meant to type that one and not 下る, but for some reason whatever version I'm using doesn't have have 下る in this cluster of words.

>>133593805
Check out Orient Industry. They have some pretty amazing models. And don't deliver outside of Japan.

>>133593928
>しものせき
WHY JAPANESE PEOPLE

>>133593928
Don't you mean 下ネタ?

Scored 75 on that 16 question test someone posted last night. Thank you based core for teaching me seemingly useless words

石礫
Which do I pick

>>133593741
This is the hardest part of the core deck. Don't worry it all gets easier from here.

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>後はもう「やれるかどうか」じゃねえ――やるだけなんだよッ！！！

>>133591962
おにいちゃんさん is easily the best posted in this thread.

>watched glass mask up to episode 26
>planned to go sleep 1 hour ago
>here I am, still shitposting
Shitposting is too addicting to be honest

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>漢 literally just used as おとこ

鼠鳴き

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You blind a Babylonian.
He says 許さない.

I quit my day job. How was that?

>>133594808
I just finished the last episode. The last arc was probably the least compelling for me. I thought maybe I would try reading the manga, but I don't like the art style much, and it is still ongoing despite starting in 1976.

>>133595382
あにさま、はくせいにならないか？

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>>133595382

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why in the world is anki not able to handle daylight savings time

i was wondering why it would reset an hour earlier than i thought

>>133595617
That's actually an INTENTIONAL thing by the developer. Don't ask me why, I don't know. He's crazy.

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>>133595630
programmers i swear

little tyrants, the lot of them

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人をターミネーターにするな余計ややこしくなる

How do you translate:
>地下の墓場

I'm reading a story where there is a large mansion on an isolated island and there is a a room underneath it full of tombs and mummies,I was thinking mausoleum or crypt, but I'm not sure.

>>133595721
underground graveyard

>>133595721
Catacombs

>>133595751
Holy crap I forgot about that,this is probably best.
>>133595750
いいえ、先輩

>>133595785
かたこんべは、にほんてきには
>外国（特に中東あたり）の地下墓地
のいみになっちゃうけど、いいのかな？おにいちゃん

>>133595721
>>133595785
I might as well tell you guys the game because I had two more questions.
>http://www.getchu.com/soft.phtml?id=56401&gc=gc
>MinDeaD BlooD～支配者の為の狂死曲
My friend said it should use the phrase dying in madness,but I think
>A Dirge of Insanity for the Sovereign

Is a much better translation of the subtitle

夜這い

>>133585846
I've had a few of these revelations since I started writing. The first one I had was 勉強 and 強い. I had another yesterday with 結婚 and 結合.

強いを、コワいと読むか、ツヨいと読むかすら
とにかく文脈から判断するしかないからね。がんばって。おにいちゃん

Daily oddity:

孒
Kunyomi: ひだりのうでがない
Meaning: larvae of a mosquito

What.

Also, you can search twitter for 次の漢字の読み to laugh at Japanese not being able to read many of the given examples (and then weep in a corner because you're generally faring even worse) and similarly test yourself by going to https://shindanmaker.com/520188

>>133590917
>>133591582
Not him, but that example doesn't work for me at all. I say the k/cc sound the same in both words. 英国人 btw.

Explaining it in English is stupid anyway. The best way is to cite a word which shows up commonly in chinese cartoons which contains the sound like "mattaku" since anyone who has watched anime for a while will have heard this over and over. "Mattaku" is a good example to use because the change in sound is often very exaggerated to express frustration and whatnot.

>>133595904
いい言葉ですね～
>>133595983
「つよい」しか知らない

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>JLPT2 kanji
>JLPT3 vocabulary
So does that mean that I may find that word in lvl3 but only in kana while I may also find it in lvl2 but this time in it's proper kanji form?

I want some 四字熟語

Post your favourites.

一石二鳥. This is the only one I know by heart and I think it is pretty lame.

>>133597441
珍紛漢紛

>>133597441
容姿端麗

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>>133597441
加藤一二三

九段！

Do you use が or に with 気になる?
（私は）そっちのプロファイルが気になってきた
（私は）そっちのプロファイルに気になってきた
I don't even know anymore..

>>133596021
>ひだりのうでがない
>左の腕がない

oh japan you so funny

>>133597942
gonna go with my gut feeling of が

ねいてぃぶが、どっちかを他の漢字に変えてほしいなあとおもうにほんご

数える
教える

hey guys, I need a little bit of help figuring out where to start. I taught myself hiragana and katakana over the past few days and got Anki all set up with the deck that came in the pastebin. I somehow pictured this working very differently ( I saw some screenshots of people posting pictures of all their learned kanji's, talking about their core decks) and assumed they would be in that deck but I've now realized I should be adding them myself.

What would be a good way to start? I really want to get down some kanji before I continue with vocabulary and grammar. I also got myself a japanese manga with furigana which I could go and translate but I feel I might get a wrong idea of the meaning of the kanji as I will only be able to translate them to hiragana and not get any explanations of the radicals/meaning of the kanji/tricks for memorizing it/other uses of it etc.

I apologize if this is covered in the pastebin, I've read nearly all of it and I suppose it's a bit much to find a good point to start.

>>133598344
The kanji picture is from a plugin called kanjigrid that looks at all your cards on some field to find out what kanji they have and how well you know the cards that have those kanji

>>133598296
全然わからん

>>133598382
Alright, thanks. And is Anki really the way to go for kanjior are there others? I used a little test program for hiragana and katakana which gave you explanations for the kanas and their meaning/origin and they really helped me remember them well. Afterwards you had tests to take with either open answers or multiple choice answers. Is there anything like that for Kanji? I don't really feel I'm learning much from anki/translating manga myself as I have trouble remembering the kanji, since there's no extra information to go with the kanji itself if I learn this way. I suppose reading about their meaning/origin and then taking tests really is the easiest way to go for me.

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>>133598388
>教える
>数える
あたしは似てると思うんだけど
あのんくんたちにも似ているように見えるよね？

>>133598565
Anki is used for long term memorisation of things

>>133598572
別に

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>missing one day of anki
Never again

>>133598646
holy fuck you have a lot of decks

>>133598565
Anki is used for making yourself remember things for the long run.

>>133598660
The JLPT decks don't really have many cards in them though, the N5/N4 kanji are like 100 each, and the JLPT 4 is 600 cards which I stopped halfway through because it had too many unknown kanji and I ended up liking Core so much better.

I know like 300 more kanji now since I stopped so I could probably continue, but I feel that time would be better spent reading.

>>133597441
心頭滅却 and 心機一転 just because they sound cool. Pretty common if you watch cartoons with battles, too.

>>133598695
>>133598580

Alright then, Anki is just for memorisation. Good to know. What would be a good way to go about learning Kanji then? Especially since my preferred way of learning is reading about the origin of the kanji

>>133598867
Do RTK. See the guide.

>>133598867
There's currently no accurate etymological dictionary on kanji.

If you want to understand their origins the best you'll need an /accurate/ radical (= component) deck. I don't know where to get one, though.

Bear in mind that in the last great writing format change in china, when they switched to brushes, a lot of components changed their shape. For example, the vertical radical for "water" is now three long dots on the left side, and the radical for "meat" looks like 月 or sometimes even like 夕 with an extra stroke.

>>133597441
百発百中

>>133598895
thanks, I couldn't find any explanation of RTK though, only two references to it.

>>133598933
Alright, thanks. Guess this means changing my learnstyle.

These 4 word things are giving me a boner

>>133599041
RTK is great toiletpaper.

In all seriousness I don't actually know how it works; it's just that everyone I know by name that's used it has given me horror stories about it.

>>133593741
I literally just had all those in my new cards last night

Holy shit was I pissed. It's going to take me 2 weeks of reviews to keep all of those separate, and no doubt I'll be mixing them up for 6 months after that. Doubt I'll ever mature any of them

And I thought 上げる, 上る、上 being all close together near the beginning of the course was the worst thing. Oh yea, it also added more bloody "上~" words during that session as well.

>>133593894
>memorizing masu stems separately from their verb
Why.

>>133590917
No matter what I did or read, nothing explained it and I couldn't figure it out until your post.

I sat there saying words for half an hour until for some reason it just clicked and I get it now.

It's a really subtle difference. I don't why Tae Kim just assumes you can immediately tell or reproduce the difference.

>>133599176
You're welcome. You also just used production for the one thing it's good at, too. Good job.

>>133599041
RtK is designed to get you used to Kanji. It won't teach you how to read them in Japanese, but it will teach you how to look at Kanji and see all the various parts of them and keep them all separate in your brain so you don't mix them up when you come across them in vocabulary

Look at these for instance

待つ
持つ

At first glance, they look very similar. However, with RtK you'd know very quickly what the differences are and you'd have a general idea of what each one means

Basic example. Lots of Kanji are more complex and similar

For some people, this makes vocabulary easier because you have a general idea of what the word means so all you need to do is learn how it's pronounced.

For others its a waste of time

Like everything with Japanese/language learning, you need to experiment and see what works for you and what doesn't

>>133598646
>doing that many decks
>50 words a day on Core
>complaining that you have lots of reps to do
That's like slamming your shin into a metal post and then complaining that your leg hurts.

>>133599258
>Look at these for instance
>待つ
>持つ
>At first glance, they look very similar. However, with RtK you'd know very quickly what the differences are
You don't need RTK for that. Just writing both kanji out a few times will make the differences clear.

>>133598823
You only need 200 words for N5/N4?

おおあめ、「おお」「あめ」で大雨ね。おお分かる解る。

霧雨。時雨。五月雨。

Why JPP

>>133599388
nichijou has made sure that I will remember 五月雨 till the day I die

In regards to rank, if Sergeant is "Gunso," and Master Sergeant "Socho," how to translate Technical Sergeant and Gunnery Sergeant?

>>133599978
I feel like it's best to not translate them and to just think of them as a separate entity/military system entirely.

>>133599321
>Basic example. Lots of Kanji are more complex and similar

>>133600204
Their military rank is so much simpler than ours.

大元帥・元帥
大将・中将・少将・准将
代将・大佐・中佐・少佐
大尉・中尉・少尉
准尉
曹長・軍曹・伍長
兵長・上等兵・一等兵・二等兵

>>133600661
This is a great for referencing. Did you get it from somewhere or write it yourself?

>>133600693
Wikipedia. The table on the top right of the 軍隊の階級 article. You have to expand it cause it's hidden.

>>133599388
梅雨

入梅

Just saw ぢ for the first time, with 縮まる

>>133600693
ケロロ○○
モトコ○○
平賀・キートン・太一○○
ロボット○○○

>>133593371
Just came back from sleep. Here's source in case you're still around.
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/866914/d10ee43078/

How much vocab before I start studying grammar?

>>133601089
0

>>133601089
as much or as little as you want. it makes sense to start on it after you have a solid base of words you can remember, but learning some basic grammar beforehand can help in other ways. just remember that you'll probably forget about it if you switch to just vocab practice for a few months or whatever

>>133601133
So, what, just practice vocab with English words?

>>133601195
Practice grammar, that is.

>>133601195
Don't you know words from anime

like oppai and such

>>133601195
Most introductory grammar guides don't expect you to know any vocabulary. They'll gently introduce every word they use.

>>133601260
Oh, I see.

>>133601215
Sure, but not enough to form coherent sentences. "Oppai wa sugoi desu"? Is that even real?

I also feel super dirty using words without using/knowing the Kanji.

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Daily english lesson with Kloah

>>133601293
>"Oppai wa sugoi desu"
That's actually a perfectly valid sentence and you probably expressed exactly what you tried to express with it. Though you're likely to still be intuitively thinking of the wa as "is" which is completely mistaken.

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Write out the kanji as you learn the cards. Only stop when you can draw it from memory.

It can greatly increase your retention rate, reducing the amount of reviews you need to do, and you don't need to do rtk or whatever to learn the little differences between complicated/similar kanji.

>>133601333
>That's actually a perfectly valid sentence and you probably expressed exactly what you tried to express with it.

Neat

My first original Japanese sentence

>Though you're likely to still be intuitively thinking of the wa as "is" which is completely mistaken.

I understand this, yes, at least in theory

>>133601356
Also, learn kana before anything else. Did you read the guide in the OP?

>>133601370
Yes, I did kana. I didn't want to write out a sentence in just kana though, that seems wrong.

>>133601354
Just wondering, how many words do you know?

>>133601438
12.

>>133601426
The sentence you just wrote would usually be written just in kana. 凄い is very often written in kana

Can anyone point me into the direction of learning Kana without Romaji? I feel like it's fucking me up. Instead of visualizing a word in the actual language, I see it in my head as English.

>>133601759
This will go away when you start reading. Just keep on trucking

>>133601260
Actually, the main failing of both Genki and Tae Kim in my opinion is that they heap way too much vocab on you. I can't remember how bad it was in Genki, but I remember that Tae Kim would drop upwards of 50 new words on you in some lessons.

In GRAMMAR guides, the vocab should be kept very limited since the point is not to teach you vocab but to teach you the rules by which the language is structured. A grammar point demonstrated via a sentence using vocabulary you're familiar with is much more effective than one full of words you're just seeing for the first time, especially as a beginner. Sadly, nobody who writes such guides seems to understand this.

I can't be the only one that love encountering new expressions in Anki. I can't imagine anyone being able to do core without thoroughly enjoying the Japanese language. Or? Anyone out there hating every second of core?

>>133601900
>I remember that Tae Kim would drop upwards of 50 new words on you in some lessons
Can you point to a lesson that does that? I remember it being always around the 10's or 20's on average.

You could study the specific words he uses in advance if that troubles you though. He's kind enough to provide word lists for that.

>>133601900
Most people who are experts in both Japanese and English are not also experts in learning/neuroscience, unfortunately, so they do a shoddy job of conveying information.

The gap between "being good at [thing]" and "being good at explaining [thing]" is perpetual.

>>133601988
How long have you been doing core? How many words have you done so far?

>>133601900
Look at it this way, should you really be reading grammar guides if you don't even know the most simplest of vocab?

>>133601994
>Can you point to a lesson that does that?
Here's one of his very first lessons.
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/verbs

>>133602021
Yes.

N5とかN4なら数か月でできるようになるんじゃないのかな？
使わないとすぐ忘れちゃうだろうけど

>>133601994
maybe he changed it since the pdf was ripped from his site, but i seem to remember one of the lessons on verb conjugations having 50 examples. don't remember where though, so i might be misremembering

>>133602020
11 months now. At about 3500 words. Think that's a pretty decent progress and able to read basic sentences.

>>133602034
Well, he doesn't really use most of those in the examples, so it's not as if you have to learn them all to follow through with the guide. In fact, you don't really have to learn any of them since you can just hover over words for a translation in the example sentences, which is a feature I'm sure he added precisely because he understands what you said about how grammar guides should focus on the grammar not vocab.

>>133602069
Anki

>>133598646
I've started missing many weekends, but I don't really add much these days as I'm a lazy faggot so it's not much of a chore to do it all on Monday.

I should probably do the rest of Coreplus, I've stopped when it reached the section with alphabetic order. But again, lazy faggot. Just adding words I meet sometimes, although half of them aren't in the deck and I have to make new cards.

>>133601988
I just started core and learning all the numbers (admittedly that was easy because anime), then all the 一日 and 一つ numbers is giving me cancer

>>133602069
うん、N5とN4の試験を取るのはまったく無意味です

>>133602034
Surely you don't need to be "familiar" with the words to understand such sentences as "私は買う". What kind of words would you want him to use?

>>133602099
Maybe because you're doing it at a slow pace. I and some others in this thread want to be able to read advanced material as fast as possible so we blaze through and grind cards as much as possible which is one of the reasons anki is a chore.

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>>133602197
N5がネイティブに通用しますかというと、まったく無意味だよ。おにいちゃん

でもN4のためにN5をとるというのはわかるよ。
N3をとるためにN4をとるようにね。

Haven't been coming here for a long while now but y'know, I just feel the need to thank you, guys.

I mean, I'm still a complete dunce when it comes to moon, unfortunately that's incurable and not limited to learning Japanese. But being able to to just pick something up, whatever I want, that's not as ridiculously complex as Muramasa or shit like that, and more or less plow through it with a dictionary is the greatest feeling I've had, despite my general preference for translated material. It takes a long while every time, I still rely on weblio and alc for certain phrases, but the fact that it's possible is pretty darn heartwarming.

Like, I'm playing SHC right now and I remember myself trying to play it before and that experience being painful enough to drop it for ages, and now I'm enjoying it much more. Managed to sully the world with some shitty translations, too, which a few people were, surprisingly, grateful for.

And I never had to actually go to Japan or find a school or teacher or anything (would be practically impossible with my work schedule anyway, bit of an oldfag), all on my own between work and home with your invaluable help every step down the road. And psychological support, because I've been close to dropping it for good on more than one occasion.

It's not much, I know, but even this much wouldn't be possible without DJT. Seriously, thank you and sorry for being a faggot and mistaking /a/ for a personal blog.

>>133602671
Congratulations, reading real material with a dictionary is how to learn foreign languages.

>>133602569
>N4のためにN5をとるというのはわかるよ。
>N3をとるためにN4をとるようにね。
いや、いちいち各レベルを取る必要はないから
日本語がよくなったらN1を取ればいいんじゃないか
N2やN3ならかろうじて少し納得いけるけど、低レベル日本語の証明はなんの役にも立たないし、お金もかかるし、それにN3以上のレベルにたどり着くのはそんなに時間かからないんだろう

こんばんは、外人のくずたち。諦めたほうがいいと思う。いじょう。

>>133602705
Except it's not very fun when you have to look up every other symbol, much more fun when there are just some unknown words here and there. Could say there's a high entry level for actually learning it.

>>133598646
案ずるより産むが良し

>>133602926
You're still "actually learning" it no matter how much you have to stop to look at the dictionary. It's just a matter of how much perseverance you have and at which point you start preferring reading over anki drilling.

>>133602671
Super Heroin Chronicle?
Uh good on you for your basic understanding I guess, but more importantly is it just me or is there 0 porn of める=ランシエル?

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>>133602882
時間をかけなくても取れることが重要なんじゃないかな。おにいちゃん

逆に日本語でおまんまくっていく気ならN1をとることもないよね。どうせ中卒程度の日本語ができると証明したところで爪の垢ほども使えやしないだろうからね。

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I've been here constantly for a long while now but y'know, I just feel the need to say fuck you guys.

I'm still a complete dunce when it comes to moon, and that's wholly curable and only limited to learning Japanese from /djt/. Not being able to to just pick something up, no matter what I want, that's not as ridiculously complex as Muramasa or shit like that, and more or less need to go through it with a dictionary for every word is the shittiest feeling I've had, despite my general preference for untranslated material. It takes a long while every time, I still rely on weblio and alc for every phrases, and the fact that it's impossible is pretty darn disheartening.

Like, I'm playing SHC right now and I remember myself trying to play it before and that experience being painful enough to drop it for ages, and now I'm hating it even more. Managed to sully the world with an untold number of shitty translations, too, which a ton of people were, unsurprisingly, resentful for.

And I even had to actually go to Japan and find a school and teacher and everything), despite that being practicle with my lack of of a work schedule anyway, bit of an unemployed NEET), not on my own between studying and school with your worthless help every step down the road. And fuck your psychological negativity, because I've been close to dropping it for good on more than one occasion.

It's not much, I know, but even this much would've been possible without DJT. Seriously, fuck you and I'm not sorry for being a faggot and making /a/ a personal blog.

>>133602915
>諦めたほうがいいと思う。
何の価値もない塵屑に言われたくない。

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T-thanks

冷たい暗黒物質

>>133603147
取ることで気がすむなら別にいいと思うけど、重要だとは少し誇張してるんじゃないか


まあ、俺自身はN1でもとる気ないからどうでもいいけど、日本の会社や日本となにかの関係をもつ会社に就職したかったらN1は役に立つかもしれないってここで聞いたからああ言っただけだ

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>>133603003
I think there's about one picture and it's not too interesting, naturally not this one. Can't say the game is very popular after all. Which is a shame, both the lack of Mel art and the general popularity. I guess the former is no wonder as even if you pick her route she's overshadowed as a protagonist by Rem, Hibiki and Aria.

And yeah, basic understanding is what I was gunning for, this has been more difficult than learning higher mathematics. Not hoping for more, although lazily practicing regardless.

>>133603160
>And I even had to actually go to Japan and find a school and teacher and everything
Wtf, man? Are you a fucking mong or what? It's your own fault if you're too thick to learn like normal people, don't blame us for it.

>>133603160
I don't understand. You don't like DJT because you have to look up words?

>>133604422
Never mind. I didn't read the thread.

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>>133603312
Welcome to Chinese

Would it be wrong to spoof my location, and practice reading and production on Japanese tinder?

>>133603580
じゅうようだよう

N5は第二外国語の半期の単位で同時に取得できるように作ってあるんだろうから。

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>learning katakana
>characters for シ、ソ、ツ、and ン all look like smileys
>have stupid urge to smile while writing them

Has this happened to anyone else here or maybe it's related to having watched too much pic related.

>>133605376
yeah, I learned them with smileys, either looking to the left or right, so it was pretty easy to distinguish them
Most people have problems with them but I had more trouble with ウワフ when speed-reading

>>133601333
I thought desu meant is

>>133605421
I thought desu meant to be honest.

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>>133605376
Never happened to me, but I smiled reading your post, probably because I love Yuyushiki so that made me more sympathetic towards you.

>>133605376
Sure, often makes things easy to remember though, like how the kanji for sheep looks like a sheep.

>>133605421
Roughly, sorta, kinda, but not really. It's not a verb to begin with.

>>133605421
Desu is just kind of an indicator

Don't try to equate it with an English meaning

>>133597441
>一期一会
Thank you Azumangaq

>>133600661
I learned this because of muvluv.

>>133603312
This is why I did the first 1000 of the 3000 四字熟語 deck (it's all you'll ever need)

>>133605641
>Desu is just kind of an indicator
Desu is the Japanese copula. "be" is the English copula. They aren't equivalent but they serve the same function in their respective languages.

>>133597441
竜頭蛇尾
文武両道

>>133605749
千載一遇

>>133605840
I learned it from LoGH.

>>133605840
I learned it from FMP.

木綿 sounds cottony.

>4 versions of "if"

This shit never gets easier does it?

>>133606741
You mean you can't think of four ways to phrase "if" in English?

>>133607075
I can think of literally 1 way to phrase "if"

It's called "if"

>>133607150
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/if

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申し上げます。申し上げます。
>もしもし
にほんはよくわからないよぅ

>>133607286
More or less interchangeable

The Japanese ones are not

>>133607349
How many stupid Japanese kids try to interchange them anyway?

The more I practice listening with anime, the more I feel like the Japanese can't even speak their own language properly.

>email Japanese guy
>they say my Japanese is bad
JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP

>>133607509
It must be REALLY bad. Usually they gush praise at you for saying ありがとう

>>133607492
There's this weird sense of smugness some people who learn a language get when they realize what native speakers do to their language. It's silly.

>>133607559
To be specific, they clarified what I wrote and then said "よかったら英語でも大丈夫です".

>>133607492
You're worse than those fucking idiots who say "Dutch/Swedish people speak better England than some natives"

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i love fonts

>>133607724
Post more stupid fonts please.

>>133607633
I bet they can easily beat the average American ghetto nigger any day.

>>133607620
恥ずかしそうだね

>>133607583
reading people spelling shit wrong all the time in English just annoyed me because I kept doubting myself

>>133607801
No

>>133607633
>speak better England

Dutchman detected

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>>133607724
>海通信
かな？ぱちんこくさい

>>133607978
just say you already frequent the website please

>>133607822
I actually re-read my mail and realized that I typed 婚 instead of 結婚 due to gmail being a fuck with Japanese typing (for me anyway) so he was probably just talking about that mistake in particular.

>どちらでもいいです
Is it fine to use です here even though いい as an i adjective? I googled it and apparently it's used, so it that an exception to the rule or what?

Really, really want the JALUP decks. Ridiculous how much he charges for them.

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>>133608033
おう、つー、れうど・・・

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>reading VN
>this comes up
God-damn you guys weren't kidding about this shit being tougher than manga

>>133608418
>chinese mode engaged

>>133608418
Why are you learning Chinese?

>>133608479
How is it Chinese when it's clearly using Kanji? C'mon anon

>>133608528
It's actually Hanja you uneducated oaf

>>133608173
is this slang? because i have no clue what you just said

>>133608418
Cantonese, no?

Do I read the 上 or the 下 first?

>>133608418
Blame the Chinese for their cultural imperialism.

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>>133608726
峠

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>>133608887

>>133608726
The one that was released first by date?

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>s.o.
>s.t.
Is there an alternative to this retarded crap? I wanted to check something because it wasn't clear in Tae Kim but I'm afraid I won't be able to deal with this shit.

>>133609039
>there are people in this thread right now that find よつばと！ boring
Absolutely disgusting.

>>133608726
Rikaisama can tell you
中 is the 2nd if there are 3 volumes

>>133609131
It'll be fine

>>133609131
>>s.o.
>>s.t.
Those are hardly difficult to remember. I guessed both of them without looking them up because it was so obvious what they meant.

Why did they do away with いろは ordering?

When I first learned about it I thought "wow, what a beautiful language, so much better than this arbitrary shit in English", until I learned they changed it to arbitrary shit.

>>133609131
You can't learn Japanese if you don't recognize the DOJG as your best companion.

>>133609165
People still use Rikaisama? I'd have thought people would have grown out of such crutches by now.

>>133609039
Modern anime fans are human garbage.

>>133609263
The iroha order has no logical pattern to it. Ordering the kana by sounds is far less arbitrary than ordering them by order of appearance in a poem.

>>133609225
I'm going to take your word for it.

>>133609234
It was a shock. I constantly hear about DoJG being much more comprehensive and a staple tool in learning grammar but then I'm faced with something I see for the first time in my life and after checking out its meaning I realize it's just an obscure longer version of abbreviation which already exists. It makes no sense and this part bothers me more than abbreviation itself.
Maybe me being ESL plays a role here.

>>133609268
Well, shit. Should I read it it whole (while mining manga/LNs/VNs) after finishing Tae Kim or just check up on stuff I don't recognize/understand?

We need some street knowledge over here.

>>133609366
What's the point of having a logical pattern when the poem is way easier to remember and prettier?

>>133609443
Your kind will be wiped from the earth in the next war. Bitch.

>>133608099
です after い-adjectives is fine and more polite. It's だ that can't be used after them.

>>133609443
How is あいうえお、かきくけこ、etc. hard to remember, exactly?