Why didn't Rin use magic to break into a museum and steal

Western heroes are much cooler, who the fuck wants a tiny dick Jap as their Servant?

>>114979985
Wasn't her mistaking the time is what brought this?

>>114980047
>and then Arthur was a girl

The only Japanese sword worth stealing is the Kusanagi no Tsurugi but the imperial family has it and you're not allowed to look at it.

>>114979985
A servant having a katana doesn't mean it will be a Saber.
See Assassin.

>>114980119
and that girl shits giant laser beams, Japanese heroes are shit save for Oda Nobunaga - who was a joke Servant

>Okita Souji
Worst Saber
>Benkei
Crappy Lancer
>Kojiro
not even a true Servant

Then you have Servants without further details like Amakusa Shirou (Ruler), Miyamoto Musashi (Saber) and Sakamoto Ryoma (Saber)

Would Masamune be a Saber or is he just a creator not a wielder like EMIYA?

>>114980080
No read the VN, shit even F/Z explains it.

You can't summon Eastern heroes in the 526th grail war. The line goes somewhere west of India.
Kojiro is only a valid summon because he is a Wraith, he does not hail from ToH. Just like Bluebeard.

>>114980260
Nigger what, they have tons of potential Servants.
The Dokuganryuu, Hatori Hanso, and others.
And considering Evil Spirits are allowed to be summoned after the 3rd war you could also get shit like Orochi and others.

>>114980047
>>114980260
But Archer is actually a jap, a good servant and he also has a big penis.

>>114980418
read >>114980365

TOHSAKA RIN PLEASES OLD MEN FOR MONEY

>>114980131
That not known as a weapon used by a hero though.

>>114980438
Them being summonable or not due the line doesn't change the fact Japan WOULD have cool servants.

>>114980431
>But Archer is actually a jap
No he is Irish, he is the blue man's descendant.

>>114980365
Why are eastern heroes invalid?

>>114980491
Because japan has enough anime with those in it.

>>114980491
Not mysterious and exotic enough for the target audience.

>>114980365
EMIYA is an eastern hero from the Throne.

>>114980474
But I thought that blue man was Rin from the future

>>114980431
>Shirou
>future protagonist
>a good servant

True, if the plot demands it

Like during UBW

>>114980535
That's the other blue man keep watching.

>>114980491
They don't want to answer the summoning to a foreign object.

>>114980531
EMIYA is partially a part of the western culture sphere.

>>114980531
EMIYA is a counter guardian. That's a whole different can of worms to think about.

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>>114979985

I watched F/SN back when the first one came out years ago and didn't like it. Do I have to rewatch it and remember things to watch this or can I just start with zero or whatever?

>>114980688
The far east is not the only region to which the Christian Holy Grail is a foreign object.

>>114980491
Because the Holy Grail Ritual was created using western magic.

TYPE-MOON Ace 4
Nasu: In EXTRA's Grail War, Eastern heroes can be summoned as Servants. The ban is removed.
----Really?! Wasn't Assassin Sasaki Kojirou the only irregular existence...?
Nasu: The summoning system of Fate/stay night's Grail War was created in the world of Western magi, so it can only summon Western heroic spirits. But EXTRA's world itself is irregular, and the Grail War system is different from the previous ones, so Eastern heroic spirits are possible too.

>>114981431
When the fuck do we get a translation of CCC?

>>114979985
The catalyst works based on how closely tied it is with the hero. Getting the katana might get her someone that used it, doesnt mean that person will be a saber class.
Besides, I dont believe she had too much support magic to help her steal a relic and get away with it in the time that she had left.

>>114981431
So, they just count the near East as Western as well? Sasuga Japan.

>>114980431
He was westernized, duh!

>>114981587
The middle/near east already have lots of contact with the western world since the time of the Greeks (For Example, The Centaurs were suppose to be based on the Steppe people, more contact with the Persian empire, especially after Alexander conquered it, and during the times of the Roman empire too, etc...)

>>114980531
EMIYA isn't a hero, and his summoning was more powerful than normal catalyst rules.

>>114980531
Nah mate he's a hero in several places around the earth. I.e. middle east

>>114981730
Gilgamesh is older than those things, though.
Unless you want to say that western magic itself got influences from there, that could make sense.

>>114981431
So using a eastern catalyst wouldn't work?

>>114981891
It did, after all the Atlas Academy (part of the mage's association) was located in Egypt.

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>>114981836
George Bush is a hero in several places in Africa for fighting AIDS. That reasoning sucks.

>>114981959
And since it deals primarily in alchemy, in which the Einzberns specializes in.

>>114980431
>a good servant
Arguable, powerlevel-wise he's in the bottom of the list.

>>114982055
he's an incredibly well-balanced and observant genius

>>114980207
If you are talking about the one wielding a katana he was summoned by caster and it`s not a real hero, the others assasins are just the samefagging

>>114982055
Is the red man weaker than the rest because he's an unknown hero or is he just a shit

>>114982055
He can block Lancer`s Noble Phantasm and 1v1 Gilgamesh, he is so op they had to nerf him by giving a E rank in luck.

>>114980080
Yes, don't listen to the trolls.

>>114981730
What about China and South East Asia which had contact with the middle east?

>>114982030
Can Shiki kill servants?

Pretty damn sure Rin would never be able to summon Saber without a relic. Her relationship with Shirou is just too stronk.

also dat pendant

>>114982395
Real heroes sold their afterlifes in exchange for superhuman powers. The red man is just a tryhard magus in this sense.

>>114982595
Pretty sure red man would destroy most non-op heroes 1v1.

>>114980131
That was actually lost at sea they only have the mirror and the jewel

>>114982502
They hardly had any contact with the western powers in history.

Fate/Zero material - Talk about Fate/Zero: Fate/Zero Summary talk, p.130-135
>Urobuchi: I was having too much trouble thinking of a Caster, so I asked if I could use a Chinese Xian or something. That's how I learned the "Western only" rule.
>Nasu: Plus Xian would be too strong.

Keep in mind the typical Xian were immortals that was as close as you can to the gods.

>>114980260
Wouldn't Benkei make one hell of a Berserker considering his legend?

>>114982030
George Bush would be a good servant.

>>114980491

Summoning japanese heroes to fight in the modern day was already done by a japanese novel series (Makai Tensho) and Nasu didn't want to be called a copycat.
Also, he didn't want anybody to have the "home team advantage".

>>114982786
>hardly any contact
>China
>Southeast Asia

Both of their histories include them being subjugated by Western powers.

>>114983522
Talking about ancient histories since it have more do do with the development of magic.

>>114980491
Because Nasu doesn't want another Sengoku Basara or Makai Tensho

>>114983607
China was in contact with the Romans as early as the 2nd century.

At the beginning, when Rin forges a contract with Archer, she calls Kotomine to enlist herself as a Master in the upcoming Grail War. Kirei asks for her to stop by, but she doesn't. Is this why Lancer attacked her in the school? Was Kirei so offended by Rin's attitude that he went his main man Lancer to take her out?

>>114984680
That was only a few people, and they didn't establish much contact afterwards and just relied on the silk road. Unlike with middle east which the Romans pretty much controls.

http://www.fate-sn.com/story/02.html

Ep 1 staff list is out, looks like an Ufotable Tokushima episode. Takuya Nonaka directing/storyboards, Takayuki Mogi and Tetsuto Sato(new guy?) as animation directors.

>>114984861
Lancer's mission was to recon and attack all the Master/Servant teams to gauge their capabilities.

>>114979985
>implying magus arent somehow involved in protecting important artifacts

Was Lancelot a cool dude? I like to think that he's a strong and noble person who just fucked up miserably.

>>114984861
>Was Kirei so offended by Rin's attitude that he went his main man Lancer to take her out?
Yes

The thousand injuries of Rin he had borne as best he could, but when she ventured upon insult, he vowed revenge.

>>114985251
Sir Lancelot [Servant]
Source: Fate/Zero material (2008-08-08), p.096
Fate/Zero Dictionary
The "Knight of the Lake", famed as the strongest of the Knights of the Round Table.
His illicit love affair with Queen Guinevere drove Camelot down the road to ruin, tarnishing his legacy in the legends of King Arthur.
As he often fell into madness due to troubles involving Guinevere, he has a particular compatibility with the Berserker class. In a lot of ways, he's just a guy who pushed himself too hard.
He was born with numerous abilities and aptitudes that take him beyond the realm of "high-spec" right into "completely overpowered", and none of them were any help at all in solving his problems. But while I could sort of sympathize with him, at the same time I couldn't help but feel a little bit of black joy that so many terrible things happened to such a handsome and talented person. But then the girls in class just looked at me in disdain, like, "Eww, so jealous, gross!" while screaming in shrill voices
about how cool Lance-sama is, and… ahem. Sorry, I'm getting off track here.
Anyway, if he and King Arthur had just been able to have an all-out brawl to satisfaction on a sandy beach under the evening sun, so many tragedies might have been avoided. Well, there's no guarantee, of course, but the fact remains that whatever else happened that was the one thing that Lancelot's nature never let him do. He even tried going insane to change that part about himself, but just ended up causing the way-too-serious Artoria to misunderstand a lot of things instead. Really, it makes me wonder if his origin is "being a nuisance" or something.

>>114985101
it's good or bad?

>>114981431
Why is there a distinction between "western" and "eastern" magic? Isn't magic magic? At least, the magic Rin uses doesn't seem incompatible or too different from other magi.

>>114981340
This isn't a sequel so you dont have to rewatch.

>>114981340
Just start with Zero so you can watch this, it's being adapted with Zero viewers in mind.

>>114980207
Yea, you're just wrong

>>114979985

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Rin mostly oblivious to the importance of a summoning catalyst to begin with? I don't quite remember if this was addressed in the VN, but it would seem a lot like her, what with the whole intelligent-but-lazy archetype thing going on for her.

Tokiomi never really taught her anything beyond the very basics of Tohsaka mana manipulation voo doo thingamajigs and, well, I'm not sure if Kotomine had any reason to actually properly teach Rin all the necessities of the grail war.

>>114987259
They're different and that's why she speaks German when casting, I would assume.

>>114980131

There most be something that belonged or has some connection with Musashi in Japan somewhere. With him you are pretty much assure victory.

>>114988489
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Rin mostly oblivious to the importance of a summoning catalyst to begin with?
She knew about the importance, but she didn't have a catalyst or any way to acquire one, so she just gambled that if she pumped lots of power into the process she would draw a Saber.

Because she thought she'd summon her anyways.

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>>114982984
George Bush is best Saber.

>>114982595
No, real heroes are records gathered because of their deeds in life or through legends spread about them. What you're talking about are people like the red man and Seeeibah. Although the red man is a different case from Seeeeibah, they both made contracts and sold their afterlife. People like Heracles and Gilgamesh are true heroes.

>>114982629
The red man destroyed an OP hero five times in Fate. It's just that he has a history of faggotry.

>>114982984
>Born before the 19th century

>>114988489
If she could identify the contents of Tokiomi's chest as catalysts, she knew enough about their importance. At the point of her summoning Archer there were two days to the deadline and she couldn't possibly obtain a powerful enough artifact on her own which would also satisfy her ego. She probably believed that she could do it without any catalysts since Archer and Saber were the only two cards left. She probably could have summoned a Saber too if she hadn't used the pendant.

>>114982984
george w bush
rider
lawful good

str: d
end: d
agi: a+
mag: e
lck: a
np: b+

>class skills
riding: c+
magic resistance: b+

>personal skills
golden rule: a
battle continuation: c
charisma: e
mental disorder: a
military tactics: d+
protection from arrows: a+

>noble phantasms
crescent wind: sword that fell bactria (anti-army): b+
spartan scorpion: spear that fell babylon (anti-army): b+
avenger: freedom at work (anti-fortress): a

>>114982055
Powerlevels are low but versatility is high.

>>114992063
Would Shirou get EMIYA then? I'd imagine his connection to EMIYA is stronger than to Arturia, plus I don't think Arturia fits into Archer class.

Why didn't Rin use magic to conjure up a time machine, and kidnap King Arthur for herself?

>>114992352
EMIYA would probably not have been summoned at all. Shirou had Avalon inside him so there is no way he would summon anyone but Seeeibah. He'd just be killed like a bitch or be saved by Rin.

>>114987259
Houjutsu

法術 - Houjutsu
Japanese spell-casting based around Shinto and Buddhism.

Withcraft

呪術 - Jujutsu
Shamanism, curses, etc. Not thought of as academia within the Association.

Formalcraft

元素変換 - Genso henkan
Elemental conversion.

Summoning

召喚術 - Shoukanjutsu
Summoning. Not too many details on it. Some sort of ambiguous difference between it and spiritual evocation (koureijutsu).

Spiritual evocation

降霊術 - Koureijutsu
The art of conjuring a spirit. Merem's Demonition, etc. The department for this subject in the Clock Tower is called Eulyphis.

Spiritual invocation

霊媒術 - Reibaijutsu
The art of working via spiritual mediation. Spiritual surgery, spiritual possession, etc. A department in the Clock Tower exists for this subject.

Minerology

鉱石学 - Kousekigaku
The studying of minerals. The Tohsaka jewel arts would fall under this category. The Clock Tower has a department dedicated to this subject, in which Rin is enrolled in.

Alchemy

錬金術 - Renkinjutsu
Academia with the common theme of studying the flow of matter.
Most alchemy delves in the conversion of matter. However, Atlas is researching the conversion of phenomena.

Kabbalah

カバラ
One of the big European systems.
Not mentioned that often, only once in Tsukihime itself. Arc has already developed resistence to this.
One of the ancient methods, the Notarikon (short hand based on initial or ending letters of words used for sentence construction), is used by Aoko.
Gematria (which is probably the basis for Roa's numerology) and Temurah are the other major ancient methods.

>>114992468
But Shirou has EMIYA's goddamn body, I'd imagine that being a pretty powerful catalyst.

>>114992468
Can Arturia even be summoned into Archer class?

>>114979985
question
how come NO ONE notices all that property damage in the school grounds after the skirmish between Archer and Lancer?

wait wait wait, didn't they already make a movie of the ubw route? why now make a tv series as well?

>>114992663
I mean, there's a fucking CRATER, a smashed building and a giant trench at least

>>114992663
They do. They keep talking about gas explosions and shit in the news.

>>114992740
Because the movie was fucking shit.

>>114992579
EMIYA's hostility towards Shirou and the sheer power of Avalon would ensure that such faggotry would not occur.
>>114992649
Who knows? Arthur's legends speak of at least three swords and one spear but I've never heard of him shooting anything.

>>114992782
>hey guys, let's keep the school open even though there may another explosion in the grounds and kill a dozen or so of students
>BRILLIANT

I feel like I've seen the Fate and UBW routes a million times at this point. When's Heaven's Feel getting some love?

>>114992942
only if they go for the MIND OF STEEL route
sparks liner high is also acceptable
everything else from that route is shit

>>114992942
It won't. You'll get a movie and that's it.

>>114982049
Einzberns have a completly different kind of Alchemy than Atlas

>>114992874
No one wants to take responsibility for any mistakes or failures in Japanese hierarchy. Closing the school is considered failure.

>>114982590
I'm pretty sure the pendant is stronger than most catalysts she could have gathered

>>114982629
too bad noone would be stupid enough to summon a non-op hero

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>>114979985
Why didn't Rin use magic to break into a museum and steal a famous chair to summon a Saber with?

Fixed

Is the UBW prologue also referred to as episode 00?

>>114987259
The Tohsaka have western magic

>>114993144
the Einzberns summoned Avenger, D shit stats on everything

>>114980431
this he's mostly jap with a little white from Rin's side but her and Shirou are mostly jap

>>114993174
The prologue is the prologue to the entire game, it's the very first thing you see when you start up F/SN's VN for the first time.

You don't see it again unless you specifically want to replay it through the extra's menu.

It's just an intro to the story.

UBW doesn't start until the 3rd night of the actual story, which is the point of divergence for all 3 routes. That's where your decisions over the first 3 days come to a head and put you on one of the 3 routes.

>>114993173
But taking the siege perilous (assuming they can find it) would summon Galahad or Percival.
Anyway
How do you feel for being written out of the holy grail quest by the French and replaced with their created Gary Stu Galahad because they thought your background and nature is not Christian enough?

>>114992579
Counter guardians generally can't be summoned for grail wars. EMIYA was summoned due to a catalyst that HE had. Namely the heart pendant he was revived with.

>>114993261
I always wonder what kind of servant they had on mind instead of Avenger
they expected something to have EX ranks on everything?

>>114993343
Pretty sure it was also due to the grail being corrupted.

>>114993261
Wasn't it E?
Also their plan could have come right from Frodo

>>114992649
not Arturia but Arthur might since time shenanigans I don't remember the card game has what classes are available but I'm not sure how canon it its

>>114993392
They tried to summon Angra Mainyu

>>114993392
They tried to summon a literal god. The Zoroastrian god of all evil. What they got was the village whipping boy, basically.

>>114993519
>>114993392
>not summoning Zeus
faggots

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>>114993417
>Why don't they bend the rules and summon a god?
>Why don't they hire a combat magus and provide him with everything he needs to win the war?
>Why don't they one of the strongest heroes and make him even stronger with mad enhancement?

>>114993565
Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure the Einzbern grail doesn't really allow for divinities to be summoned. Demigods is as much as it will allow.

The Einzberns were trying to cheat their own system by summoning a human incarnation of Angra Mainyu (or so they thought) but it wasn't what it was cracked up to be.

>>114993519
>not summoning Allah as Saber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX3RAjMLgNc

>>114993618
Acht is Frodo.
Everything makes sense now

>>114993618
Kiritsugu is like the ultimate Frodo solution
>why don't they just shoot everyone?

>>114993712
Except shooting didn't even work against high-level magi like Fastwheels without Origin bullet

>>114993618
The second one worked. Kinda

>>114982870
Benkei's pretty OP even now.

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Episode 1 will be even better than 0, calling it now.

Why dont they summon bruce lee or jesus?

>>114995083
Jesus would probably even work as servant because he's both 100% human and 100% divine.
The problem would be to get both a catalyst and why would he even want to get summoned?

>>114994937
The prologue will always remain the best episode because Shirou is only shown for 2 seconds.

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>>114995471

Nice post, Archer.

>>114994937
Is Saber going to start looking like shit too?

>>114994937
UBW just builds up hype as it goes so we'll just be looking forward to new episodes every week.

>>114995526

Takeuchi would slaughter all of UFOtable if they made her look bad, so she'll look fantastic

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>>114995526
Yes.
Every character looks shitty in profile

>>114995526

ufotable already did a whole series with Saber, in case you missed it.

>>114995262
Also would Jesus even join the Throne of Heroes? I can't see him doing it.

>>114995583
It's realy the best route for a series.
HF drags like hell in the middle and Fate is Fate

>>114995641
He probably would be in the throne but not respond to a summoning.

>>114995471
But Shirou is the best character in the series

>>114980047
Fuyuki's Holy Grail War has a "Western Legends Only" rule. No Asian heroes allowed.

>>114992173
Has anyone made one for Obama?

>>114995797
More like the most retarded and shitty character with the biggest plot armor in history. He's the only reason I can't take this shit seriously.

>>114995878
You only watched DEEN/stay night?

>>114995083
>>114995262
What classes could Mohammad be summoned as?

>>114995959
Actually I read the Fate and UBW routes and he was retarded in both.

>>114996116
I don't think he would have any special stats.
I mean he's just a prophet

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>>114996124
Shirou is the best in HF where he is broing it up with Kotomine

>>114996225
HF Shirou is shit

>>114996184
>just a prophet
I just think being considered the ultimate messenger of God by 1.6 billion people would put him on the higher side of Heroic Spirit power levels

>>114996116
Rider would probably be his best class.

>>114996426
He conquered a bunch of shit too.

>>114996124
>hating UBW Shirou
No cure for shit taste

>>114993343
Wait, was it ever actually stated that counter guardians can't normally be summoned by the grail, or is that just headcannon? It's been a while since I've played the VN but I'm pretty sure it was outright stated that counter guardians are eligible for summoning, without any further nuance.