Are there other characters with 8man's archetype?
In a core 'recluse' way, sure
But what makes them recluses is completely diferrent. Keima dislikes 3dpd but has the 'skills' to integrate if he so chooses, 8man just hates everyone, and doesnt have much on the social skills side
No, he convinces himself everyone dislikes him, but in reality, noone gives a fuck about him.
Then, he goes into the whole 'me' and 'them' mentality, similar to 4chan and normalfags, and just makes himself hate them even more.
I know I used to be like that
8man just cut off his nose to spite his face, he proactively sells himself as an asshole before they have a chance to reject him.
He knows no one really cares about him.
However, making them like him to get things done is too roundabout for him.
He gets things done regardless of the consequences.
That's why he's the hero /a/ deserves.
>He knows no one really cares about him
But there are people who genuinely like him.
And he like some people too.
He just doesn't can't admit it, cause he's too stuck in his own 'me and the normalfags' philosophy.
But he seems to be getting over it, slowly, in the last few novels.
Speaking about that, 10th Novel when?
>he's too stuck in his own 'me and the normalfags' philosophy.
Where are you getting this? The novel obviously states
>Pity and sympathy were emotions that looked down on others. Self-pity was the act of humiliating yourself. Both were despicable and completely ugly acts.
His unwillingness to pity others and get pitied himself has nothing to do with this me vs. them philosophy you keep pushing.
The only reason Hachiman has no friends is because he chooses to be an asshole and complains about being seen as an asshole. Shieldbro is treated as an asshole at the start and no matter what he does he will continue to be treated as such for no reason.
The trip was Hachiman's choice, Shieldbro can't do anything to save himself from the shit.
>complains about being seen as an asshole
Where and when did he complain about the hole he dug for himself? He wears his status as a pariah like a badge and does whatever the fuck he wants.
I did watch this bullshit, it was insufferable because the MC could have ended his bullshit in three episodes if not for him priding himself over being an asshole before people could be an asshole to him. His oh so sad story tasted like bullshit.
You really need to start sucking this guy's dick so hard. He's in a hole he himself put himself in and he stays in it by his own shitty and dumb choice.
They need to grow the fuck up, watching immature pieces of shit isn't entertaining if they never grow the fuck up.
>He's in a hole he himself put himself in and he stays in it
>his own shitty and dumb choice.
That's the thing. It isn't a shitty or dumb choice for him. Stop projecting too hard in your chinese cartoons.
They're in high school, they're immature by default. And they're supposed to grow as time passes and they get new experiences. Doesn't seem like they got any counseling or good parenting either while they were kids.
Projecting what? You want me to like this shitty character because he chooses to be in a shitty situation of his own choice. Why would I like a show about some guy refusing to change?
Oh you mean Yukino? I'm okay with this.
I vastly prefer Shieldbro because at least his shit is warranted. Or do you mean in this piece of shit, I rather have Yui as MC as Hachiman as a side dick without all the focus on him being anti-social dick.
>start sucking 8man's dick
Faggot, I knew you secretly liked him.
Also, that's the fucking point of the story, genius. Yes, he doesn't fit in. But he has friends. He has people who care about him. If he stopped pretending he didn't his life would be better.
That said, I like him (and Yukino as well) for his willingness to speak the truth as he sees it even if it isn't what other people want to hear, and to look at the world with a more negative eye than those around him.
8man is an extremely interesting case. His thoughts on pity are pretty nietzschean, almost randian. But then his acts are never self-interested, and he can justify all sorts of things for the sake of other people, which would be the logical extreme of pure altruism.
This is why I don't like arguing with animeonly fags
or shitposters, but I'll bite.
What exactly are you looking for in a MC?
The point of the story is to see how he grows in relation to the characters he interacts with. People who objectively like him outside of muhbatman and muhblog fags want to see how he changes for the better. The anime doesn't really do justice to his character, Yukino even, considering it was rushed to fuck so I guess I can see why people end up disliking him for whatever reason.
She totally will. She got a pink scrunchie from Hachiman after all.
I want an MC that actually looks like he might change, Hachiman continues being an anti-social prick every step of the way. If the LN is different, maybe Hachiman is a better character than I though but with just the anime and manga, he shows no signs of being interesting and having the ability to change.
That said, they cut out a lot of dialogue, banter, and side stories. The anime just basically throws it all into a blender and shits out a couple of important sounding lines and that's it
Hachiman 'doesn't look like he might change' because he actively resists changing. Even so, solely from the anime it is objectively apparent that he actually is changing. Compare him at the beginning (no friends, bitches about normals who enjoy their youth, bitter) and the end (multiple friends, is behaving quite similar to the people he criticizes in his opening speech about youth, still bitter).
Technically, volumes 1-6 are more focused on the other characters than they are about Hachiman's character itself. It's only until volume 7 when Hachiman's personality/views become a problem to the point it starts to hurt those around him.
Which is exactly the warning sensei gave him near the end of the anime.
>implying she didn't get the blue scrunchie
His self-justifications are almost never inline with his actual feelings/actions though, he has built up a lot of loftily argued walls to prevent himself from connecting with people and his thoughts on pity/sympathy play into that, granted it's all breaking down in the last few novels-for the better.
>he shows no signs of being interesting and having the ability to change.
Because there isn't a pressing need as he's pretty damn happy with himself. At the start, it's him changing other people with his pragmatism.
Ah, I thought you were talking about Yui for some reason. I stand corrected.
So 7 volumes of him refusing to change? How the fuck does that even work?
Him resisting to change is no fun to watch, it makes me feel like I'm watching static.
See now this sounds interesting to watch, not the bullshit the anime was mostly of. I don't want to watch a static character being a dick to everyone because of past he refuses to let go of.
So he's not entertaining because he has no need to be entertaining.
>So 7 volumes of him refusing to change? How the fuck does that even work?
If you watched the anime that's already 6 volumes.
7 is where the seeds of change are planted.
8 and 9 are where they're sprouting.
I don't think Hachiman's ideas have anything to do with an opposition to altruism. My guess is he just despises pity and sympathy because he has a great deal of anger and bitterness.
He actually shows a great deal of what one could call "pity and sympathy that is heavily disguised." He behaves in a seemingly hateful way at times but often his goal in doing so is to help others, and I don't think he's ever done anything worse than say mean things. So I guess I see him as a sympathetic altruist who is unwilling to admit that he is one.
At the same time, he exhibits what I'd say is one of the flaws of 'pure altruism,' namely that he is quite willing to tolerate and even cause the suffering of at least one person: himself.
Oreki isn't as abrasive but I think he's somewhat similar
>he has built up a lot of loftily argued walls to prevent himself from connecting with people
It's more like, was he ever in the positon/allowed to push his selfishness onto others? In his entire life, he's never shared a connection like this with anyone (except Komachi).
>I couldn't read 7 volumes of this shit to get to what I want to see
It's a good thing most of those volumes aren't translated and you don't have to read them if you watched the anime.
How? Hes helped tons of people. That isn't being an asshole.
He only appears to be an asshole to anyone who doesn't know him, and it's so everyone has a common enemy and can band together.
My nigga Hotarou is hilarious in his own mind
He's a pure altruist. Total up the number of things Hachiman's ever done for himself and the number of things he's done for other individuals, or the generalized "greater good".
Lucky me I suppose.
His general attitude is that of an asshole, no matter how many people he helps he still has the same attitude. Tsunderes still act like bitches regardless of how much love they feel for harem MC-kun, it's the same principle here.
He still comes off as an asshole.
>So he's not entertaining because he has no need to be entertaining.
Its like convincing a tibetan monk he needs to start caring about designer clothes and sports cars. Why should he when he's plenty happy with his simplicity?
Watching the monk wasn't be entertaining either.
He's not endearing or funny as an asshole, he's a realistic type asshole that isn't fun for anyone besides assholes who feel the same way as him.
There are undoubtedly some people who consider the exact things you consider to make someone an asshole to make them the exact opposite.
I guess you'd better change your opinion to satisfy them, if you think you're making a good argument with that post.
>B-but he is mean! and...and he is not nice to people!!! MCs are suppose to be nice
I seriously don't get the issue with him being an asshole, or actually "looking like an asshole" to the other characters because we know he is not really one.
If he was actually bitching about not being liked, or something then yeah it would be stupid but he never really cares about people looking down on him so fuck it.
I don't really get your hostility, he's only really an asshole in maybe the first one or two episodes. He's still a curmudgeon for much of the remainder of the show but he warms quite a bit nevertheless and by the point of the LNs we're at now he's become much, much more receptive to everyone around him, not even just Yui and Yukino.
adjective: edgy; comparative adjective: edgier; superlative adjective: edgiest
tense, nervous, or irritable.
"he became edgy and defensive"
synonyms: tense, nervous, on edge, anxious, apprehensive, uneasy, unsettled; More
twitchy, jumpy, keyed up, restive, skittish, neurotic, insecure;
irritable, touchy, tetchy, testy, crotchety, prickly;
informaluptight, wired, snappy, strung out
"everyone was edgy as the deadline approached"
(of a musical performance or a piece of writing) having an intense or sharp quality.
at the forefront of a trend; experimental or avant-garde.
"their songs combine good music and smart, edgy ideas"
synonyms: cutting-edge, on-the-edge, fringe, avant-garde, innovative, original, offbeat;
"an edgy new novel"
Close enough I guess. But if you're going by the dictionary definition that's hardly a bad thing.
>he's a realistic type asshole that isn't fun for anyone
But that's what makes it good, because we know he isn't actually an asshole and other people start to realize this too. Even the super popular Hayama.
And the person you're replying to is saying that they aren't entertained by it, as well as why they aren't.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make - you clearly aren't telling them that they should be entertained, and you haven't specifically said they shouldn't publicly express their dislike of the show either.
What makes you think that person is projecting? Nothing in their post suggests that.
On the other hand, you seemingly leapt to "they must be projecting" as an explanation for somebody else's behavior. Are you projecting?
He had a nice moment with Hayama at Destinyland, I think his attitude toward him comes from a combination of envy of elements of his personality and manner of operating within the world, but also a sincere distaste for his sweep-things-under-the-rug school of conflict resolution and avoidance. Even with him though, there's a begrudging respect I think, he doesn't truly dislike him in a severe way.
Obvious now why /a/ loves this prick.
>much more receptive to everyone around him
This is what I want to see, not him being a asshole day to day. I want to see other characters affecting him though interactions not him turning the world into assholes like him.
They are people entertained by two guys walking in a desert for two hours with no dialog too.
I feel this way>>113146008
Him doing this isn't fun to watch.
What am I projecting? I want to see a story where changes occur to the characters.
It's been pointed out to you several times that change has occurred to Hachiman in the anime, even if not on quite as fundamental a level as happens in the later volumes.
I suspect what you're unhappy about is the pacing.
If you've read the chain of posts, he didn't get the point of the show at all and it isn't the show's fault if he doesn't find it entertaining. His fixation on how 8man is an "asshole" is also retarded
>Seemingly in pain from those words, Komachi was mumbling something in a small voice next to me. “I wonder if Yukino-san’s more of an education-conscious type of mom… A reliable older sister… One day, I want her as my onee-chan.” Komachi’s eyes visually sparkled.
>“Yukinon, it should be okay. Komachi-chan’s very responsible so you don’t need to worry too much.”
>Certainly, Komachi’s very responsible.
>Seemingly happy with that follow up, Komachi was whispering something in a small voice next to me. “I guess Yui-san’s more of a Wise Wife, Good Mother, huh? A tolerant older sister… Eventually, I want her as my onee-chan.” Komachi’s eyes visually sparkled.
If you've been on this site for more than fifteen minutes, you'd know that people who post here are anonymous. You have no evidence that the person you replied to was the same as the person above, only that they have an opinion similar to what you imagine the person you replied to would have on the two specific things they mentioned in their post.
I've had this (thinking I was replying to the same person I'd replied to before when I was not) happen many times.
Okay, so assuming that there is just one person here criticizing Hachiman's character, the issues you have with him are:
- Hachiman is an asshole (>>113146150)
- Hachiman resists change (>>113145182)
- Hachiman is an "anti-social prick" (>>113144824)
- Hachiman's problems are his own fault (>>113143959)
Is it correct to summarize by saying that you dislike Hachiman because he is an anti-social asshole due to his own behavior and doesn't want this to change? What would you rather he have been at the start of the story?
Why do you think Hachiman desires martyrdom?
The impression I get is that he chooses it because he sees no better alternative, not because he actually wants to suffer.
Yes, that is exactly true. If he had the desire to change, I would mind as much but he doesn't. If he was the same at the beginning as he already was but actually showed signs of being affected by character interactions, I wouldn't mind.
He does change, but the message is that changing is the proof you lost before the world.
Other actually had power over you, for you to change and not be happy with your current self.
Afterwards though, he realize the fact that change not necessary is something bad when it improves your person.
And don't forget that he was bullied from the very start. It isn't like he was a shut-in or a self-aware character just because.
>If he was the same at the beginning as he already was but actually showed signs of being affected by character interactions
I already explained above that this is the case.
Either you're shitposting or you didn't agree with my explanation.
Alternatively, perhaps what you mean to say is that in spite of character interaction he still expresses a stated desire to be an antisocial asshole. This is true, although I would argue that his stated attitudes have also changed. In the beginning of the show, he ardently rejects the world around him, with essentially no exceptions. By the end he has stated both to himself and out loud a desire to be Yukino's friend. If that's not "signs of being affected by character interactions" then I don't know what is.
>If he had the desire to change, I would mind as much but he doesn't.
I guess I ought to also ask what it is you want him to change into. A number of posts in this thread have been to the effect that Hachiman is fine the way he is, which indicates to me that some people don't want him to change at all. Personally I'd like him to change somewhat but I'd be very disappointed if he completely stopped being an "antisocial asshole."
>Afterwards though, he realize the fact that change not necessary is something bad when it improves your person.
I want to see this, this is all I ever wanted from this.
I agree with your explanation. The pacing of this just takes far too long for me.
>In the beginning of the show, he ardently rejects the world around him, with essentially no exceptions.
This, I would change this. Show some signs that he doesn't want to be an antisocial asshole. He shows very little willingness to change, this continues for quite some time.
>I guess I ought to also ask what it is you want him to change into.
I simply want him to be less of a katana in a world of bamboo.
I want to see his change, that's why I am obviously still invested into shit that makes me mad.
I'd rather have MC like that who doesn't communicate with other people, especially girls. Doesn't leave his house except in occasion to buy food if he happens to have money. No sudden girlfriends or "saviors", lost sex drive ages ago. Can't find a job, stopped trying years ago. Every episode is about his self-hate and struggling with depression and poverty. Final episode ends with his suicide and he finally finds peace.
It's a mixture of respect and dislike in the sense that they are extremely similar, but due to their views will never see eye to eye. If anything, Hayama is probably one of the characters who understands 8man the most, which is why he's able to get under 8man's skin so easily, which doesn't particularly improve 8man's opinion of Hayama.
There are alternatives, but hachiman always seems to choose the method that ends up with him looking like the bad guy. After a while, you have to wonder if he's secretly masochistic.
I felt it was him getting revenge for Yukino, where he kept Yukino's honor intact, but at the same time was able to deal damage against a girl who drove Yukino against a wall and showed no remorse for her selfish actions.
What about bucket head? He's similar in the, 'I hate romance' sort of way.
He's a general Yang. Sad philosopher archetype.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-04-16/my-teen-romantic-comedy-snafu-anime-gets-2nd-season More than a month or two ago, my bad. I assume they're working on it right now with plans for spring 2015.
Its either getting humiliated by a loser or being hated by the entire school. 8man chose the former for her so she could walk away from the mess she made scot free because of sympathy.
By pity, i meant Sagami primarily getting pitied for being "harassed" by 8man. If you're going to bring 8man's view of pity into this, sure, he might have degraded her in his eyes.
Destructive for himself or the people themselves? He went the extra mile for Tobe and it isn't clear to me how much he pitied him and even /a/ has been puzzled by his motivations in that volume since.
I always thought that Hachiman was a Defensive Pessimist. He believes that everyone dislikes him because of his low self esteem. He purposefully takes the blame for things so that people will hate him. It's his way of coping with rejection. Since he is doing this to himself, it's better than someone outright rejecting him because of the way he is.
Can someone explain how 8man is like batman because I don't fucking see it.
Both, he might need to convince himself the act doesn't come from pity. If he can justify it as pure assholeness, it prevents him from feeling like he degraded that person with his pity, and the person doesn't feel like they were pitied. As for Tobe, I didn't read that part, so can't really comment.
People who say this don't understand that batman can interact normally and does it all the time when he's Bruce Wayne. They also don't understand that batman raised at least one child succesfully, Dick. I doubt 8 man could ever do that. Batman openly does have and display empathy. However, the people who say this only think of batman in the simplest terms of personality disorder, able to bend morality for the greater good (or what he views as such), and a loner (which isn't true thanks to the bat-family). Oversimplification of batman's character is the real answer. I blame the Nolan movies & Frank Miller.
I thought he didn't care about anyone so why would he need to cope with rejection?
You mean the nihilistic teenager and how he rants his cynical thoughts through banal dialogues? Most LNs are like that, so you should check that out. They're aimed towards teenagers who are going through puberty, not suprisingly.
I kinda see the resemblance if you think about the end to the Dark Knight. Batman makes everyone think he's the bad guy in order to save Dent's reputation, which he feels Gotham needs more than him being known as a good guy.
8man kind of does the same thing at the end with Sagami. Sagami, like Dent, fucked up. If 8man didn't interfere in the way he did, Sagami would have gotten shit on for fucking up the festival since she was in charge and didn't do her job. By "humiliating her", he gives her an escape route; everyone will blame him for messing with Sagami before the ending ceremony causing her to screw it up. People already dislike him, so 8man doesn't care if he gets disliked even more, but Sagami probably couldn't handle being a pariah and would end up either going hiki or snapping.
8man saved Sagami and the school from potential embarrassment by taking the evil role, just like Batman.
tl;dr Sensei is best girl.
In other words,
Shit, can we even take in the whole Batman franchise? Which ones do we consider canonical? The show with Adam West? Which of the animated series? Which comics?
Yes, the Nolan films aren't the entirety of Batman, but for the average person who doesn't read superhero comics, they are at least a decent starting point.
Fuck off back to /co/
Anime goes from Vol. One to Vol. Six, so they translated things we haven't saw yet (Vol. Seven to Nine). And now they're translating the older volumes, since there's no new material (And its different translators)
Wouldn't Tomoko and 8man be a glorious pairing.
Comicfags quit yer bitchin
You and the banhammer would be a good pairing.
Fuck off faggot.
8man isn't self-obsessed in the face of other people's suffering, has an incontrollable urge to help people (that he refuses to acknowlege), and does care who hates him - but wouldn't admit it with a gun to his head.
Does he say that? I don't recall him saying that? Maybe his aimlessness is what's causing him to be so jaded? He needs a cause. A worthy one. A final mission.
>Sensei promised to suck Hachiman dick every dick until he got friends?
>I wouldn't get any friends if Sensei was sucking my dick until I got friends
Everything makes sense now.
Threadly reminder than Sensei won the Hachibowl.
>doesn't give her half the shrekking she deserved for being such a megalomaniacal asshat
>takes the fall for her monumentous fuckup
>doesn't expect a thing in return
>tries to pretend that he's not bothered about being the target of everyone's ire so that sensei won't worry about him
Heh- We got pretty far before this asshole showed up.
Yep: it's official. The trolls are here.
Gentlemen, it has been a privilege posting with you tonight.
Welp the shitposters are here. I guess the only safe Yahari threads are the
Shiroe in Log Horizon comes to mind. They both have this "Being the bad guy in order to make people do the right thing" pattern, similar to Lelouch.
Not really, he just makes himself the asshole because his nice personality gets him rejected and abused.
When he actually tried to be nice, his lack of real social skills would made people dislike him that way.
>I'd rather have MC like that who doesn't communicate with other people, especially girls. Doesn't leave his house except in occasion to buy food if he happens to have money. No sudden girlfriends or "saviors", lost sex drive ages ago. Can't find a job, stopped trying years ago. Every episode is about his self-hate and struggling with depression and poverty. Final episode ends with his suicide and he finally finds peace.
Too realistic and depressing.
You shouldn't take shitty harems like that serious in the first place. The stories and characters are not rooter in reality at all, you won't find realistic characters or human behaviour there.
Yahari is the only bearable harem comedy I've watched, mostly because of the likeable main character who actually has a personality. It's still too far removed from reality with it's Sunohara best/only friend character, the downplayed importance of looks etc., but still a nice series.
lol, no. He is more like a plot device than a real character.
>unrealistic as fuck
It's not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be like galgames. Imo there are two ways to see it.
1. The main characters are the girls
or 2. The entire thing is a tribute to galges and the characters are irrelevant.