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Recommendations for grammar? Is Genki ok? I've read Tae Kim but I feel it skips over or has bad explanations for too much stuff. (Which I later looked up on TDoJG and it made perfect sense.)
Also, is there any good way of mining context along with words with Rikaisama?
I did that, and it took me 2-3 weeks to get basically all the basic hiragana down. Mind you, I'm a postgraduate programmer who also likes to read philosophy.
I just started diving into remembering the kana, but the author has all these weird names for each type of line like "dagger" and "boomerang" and i don't know anyone finds this useful.
My reccomendation, go to this site: http://www.yosida.com/en/hiragana.html
and click on the letters, it shows you with an animation how to learn the writing
How long until what? There's a huge difference between being fluent, and just barely managing to read something with a text hooker. The former would take 5+ years, the latter maybe a few months.
You have a long way to go. You need to know hiragana in its entirety, at least before you bother learning anything.
djt suggests knowing hiragana and katakana. I've got the basic hiragana down currently
Hi. I want to learn Japanese, but I really cannot be assed to learn all these characters, the hiragana and katagana and what else. Are there any manga or visual novels with romanji only?
>A real book is something that has words you don't understand
Please, if your argument that you never stop learning something is correct then it can be applied to everything. That's one of Aristotle's 28 lines. It doesn't apply to everything, therefore it's not correct. Saying that learning a new word in your native language means you're still learning that language is utter stupidity. I've been taking showers all my life. If I figure out that the water feels better if I move the nozzle a tiny bit to the left, am I still learning how to take showers? If I figure out a way to breathe that helps me breathe in more air when my nose is stuffy, am I still learning how to fucking breathe after all this time alive? The answer is no, I know how to take a fucking shower and I know how to fucking breathe. Seeing something new, even LEARNING something new, doesn't mean you're still learning the entire fucking thing. If you want to say that it is then you're literally learning everything at every moment of your life until you die. It's fine if you want to think that, but then you've made it so general that it means literally nothing anymore, and in that sense you still aren't learning Japanese at that point anymore than you're learning how to breathe. The end. Period.
What is ????? Is this some made up dokidoki yuri word? It has something to do with the state of kaori's pajamas. Is she just saying new in english with ? in front?
I thought it was new because she asked if her pajamas were ??? earlier. This "word" doesn't exist in any dictionary. But this sentence makes me question that initial interpretation. She's saying they?are now different from "???”
Not that guy but...
I guarantee that if you read poetry and literature you'll be stumped by grammar and meaning, not just vocab. Try reading John Donne for instance. You may get a superficial understanding but truly getting it all will be very difficult, and require more English knowledge than you currently have.
Being an English native isn't enough to have a mastery of the language. That is why English degrees exist.
>when I don't know what the definition word means in english either
Ok, I understand, let's move back to "you're still learning Japanese because you're still learning even your native language". What's the meaning of each of these? Unless there's some serious miscommunication between us, it means that because you might get confused with some grammar and not know some words in your native language, you're still learning your native language even today. It also means that even if you're fluent in Japanese, because you have to look up a word or grammar rule every once in awhile, you're still learning Japanese. That's such a meaningless thing to say though. It's pretty obvious that when people say "learning Japanese" they mean actively learning new vocab and grammar every day because they still aren't fluent enough to be able to be at the level where they're only looking up stuff about the same (give or take since it isn't their native language) as their native language. Saying "oh, well you're still learning the language every day until you die because you'll never know EVERYTHING" has a strong scent of elitism to it, almost like "you'll never get to stop, kid, take it from me". You're over-blowing the notion of "learning". Having to look something up at the same degree as your native language isn't hard or difficult or even note worthy. Saying that that's "learning" might be technically correct, but it's so vague and meaningless that there's really no reason why people should be saying it at all. If somebody hypothetically said to me "I know English", and they were a native, I wouldn't say, "yeah well actually you're still learning it". Because it's a meaningless thing to say.
It's not only learning new grammar or vocab or what have you but also improving your skill. Usually when people say "you never stop learning" it's because you're always improving. Like, spend some time in Japan and you'll hear concise ways of expressing difficult things, and those techniques you can learn. For example using a legendary triple particle or something (???). I don't know.
Read Shakespeare. His English is far above anything you or I could write. His technique is unparalleled. Despite knowing all the grammar and all the vocab, you will never be as skilled as Shakespeare. That's what we're talking about.
And his point is that's a meaningless thing to say unless you want to sound like an ass.
Though I think in this case it's too hard to define the "point" where you stop having to explicitly learn it.
I'll ignore asking how young I am because I honestly see that as a bit of an ad hominem. You also missed the point of what I was trying to say: You can say that you'll be learning forever, but it's meaningless to say because of how vague and worthless it becomes when you pair it with a native still learning their language.
>Read Shakespeare. His English is far above anything you or I could write
Actually, I can read Shakespeare fine enough to say that his iambic pentameter isn't nearly the best thing about his works, it's just something he decided to add as extra spice.
Ok, now you're just trolling. Sorry that I think asking somebody how old they are in an argument is an ad hominem.
Ad Hominem or not, my point is it's not a meaningless thing to say. It's just him showing his immaturity as a student, or someone inexperienced with serious academia.
Even with the english language, I can guarantee you that he probably introduces parenthetic expressions in a sentence incorrectly, at times.
Or perhaps he confuses the word aggravate with irritate, or forgets that a participal phrase at the beginning of a sentence must refer to the grammatical subject.
Really, I get that his point is that "oh it's just vague elitism that we *never realllllyyyy finish learning" learning.
And that attitude, is wrong.
What? It's not a common word at all, why would you expect people to know it? It's synonyms are way more common.
>synonyms: fluency, articulateness, >expressiveness, silver tongue, persuasiveness, >forcefulness, power, potency, effectiveness; >oratory, rhetoric
I have never seen that word being used in my life.
I'm not a native either and I think "eloquence" is a pretty standard word, and I learned my vocab playing computer games and reading porn.
I used to get the weirdest thing where people thought that I was trying to sound bigoted *on purpose* just because I used somewhat uncommon words. Does anyone have anything to say regarding that?
A lot of native speakers of english (british and americans) are poorly educated, and, not having learned the language to any special degree themselves, often do not know words that a foreigner might have picked up.
I do. Eloquence is a standard word in literature (books) and all that, very standard. I read it in elementary school / middle school books, and might have heard it on TV before then.
However, I NEVER hear anybody speak it. I guess you could say its the equivalent of chuunibyou. People just don't say stuff like eloquent unless they are being over dramatic.
It doesn't matter, the fact is he tried to point out what he thought my age was to win an argument. I don't care what it's called.
You have no idea what I mean, apparently. How can you honestly say that adding something new into the pool every once in awhile is the same as actively learning something? It isn't, trying to argue that is stupid. Are you saying that the amount of work you put in during your first year is the amount you'll put in even when you're fluent? The fact is that you won't be spending hours at that point. Yes, saying that you're still learning Japanese even after you're fluent, and saying that you're still learning English, is a meaningless thing to say. You can argue against that point all you want, but you'll never be right about it.
Holy fuck man, you're getting on my nerves. His words, grammar, etc., aren't what makes him a genius. Maybe you should actually read and understand some of his works, because it's the actual plot and story that make him a genius. End of story, I'm not arguing about Shakespeare here. Go make a thread on /lit/ any maybe I'll respond.
Thank you, but it'll take more than a list like that to know the words. Otherwise I would just like out all of CorePLUS and know everything.
Unless you were proving your knowledge to yourself, in which case congratulations on being more knowledgable than me.
would people take their elegances and anemic centimeters to /lit/ please and stop killing the thread?
Except it isn't meaningless because you're still learning. Even when you're fluent. Sure the amount of effort you put in won't be as great. But that's how mastery works.
As you become better at something, it becomes easier to you, so you find challenges that are more suited to your skill (learning specialised subjects, for example, do you know how to translate many philosophical words into japanese?)
So once again, you're wrong
Eloquence is eloquence. It's not used commonly because how often do you get a chance to use the word in the first place? It's not chuuni, there's no real alternative way to say it. fluency and articulateness are not really synonyms, there is no good replacement for the word, most people just substitute it with longer explanation of what makes someone eloquent because they never come across the word because they don't read and it's uncommon.
"iridescent" when talking about weird looking meat. People looked at me like I was a fucking alien even after I explained what it means. ("The thing where oil puddles have rainbows or change colors depending on how you look at them.")
Last response you're getting from me, troll. Just responded to let you know that.
Ok, you're obviously not understanding anything about what I'm saying. I don't think you're even reading what I post.
>Do you pretty much always add ka (?) when you pose a question?
pretty much yes, if it's not obvious by context.
What about their question mark?
Japs don't like to use punctuation.
I kept getting comments on my eloquent speech when I was in elementary school. I stopped reading in middle school to waste my life on the Internet, though, so that doesn't happen anymore.
It's not chuunibyou to use a word you know that fits a situation, just socially unaware I guess.
Ok, fine, you get one more chance. Why did the 5th Act of The Merchant of Venice exist when it was seemingly pointless? What's the meaning behind the title "Much Ado About Nothing"? List at least 3 comedy's that someone with an 11th grade knowledge of Shakespeare would think had a good ending but actually had an incredibly bad one, minus The Merchant of Venice since that was more of a problem play. If you can't answer these then I'm done even considering that you might be serious and not a troll. And no, I'm not answering for you. The fact that I even asked the question is proof enough that I know the answer.
I just bought a new laptop after having the same one for years. Why does the font in pic related look so pencil-y now? Maybe my old laptop had it wrong all this time and this is how it's supposed to look but it's really bothering me. Is there some sort of "setting" I can change somewhere?
Oh, yeah, and you revealed your own ignorance with a question like "What's the meaning behind the title "Much Ado About Nothing"?". I mean, c'mon dude, that requires precisely zero comprehension of Shakespeare and approximately 100 contemporary slang? Zero points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
? is fairly commonly not used. Tone of voice alone can make something a question, which is represented in text with a question mark.
Equally, they don't need to use question marks if something like ? indicates that it's a question anyway.
>other than the last being to do accidentally.
Chau-form indicates unintentional/accidentally? I thought it meant "will happen in the future" or something of the sort. Like, "My X is becoming numb (in the future)"
What fucking dictionary does Rikai-sama use, holy shit? On Chrome it does not show that, on Jisho it does not show that, nowhere does it show that but Rikaisama! Jesus, I have to have firefox open at all times now, just to use Rikaisama's engimatic dictionary.
It means things being done/completed. Which can be unintentional, if it's an uncontrollable action.
It usually corresponds to "have done/___" in english, but it can be in more than one tense. I guess it's kinda hard to explain, check out the explanation in TDoJG.
They pull the vast majority of their entries from EDICT. Also, you're embarassing yourself:
>tfw you know the meaning of the kanji but not the kanji compounds
"Sneaking in was fine, but I became tired right away and unintentionally fell asleep in an instant."
Hey DJT. Right now I'm trying to form sentences in Japanese, and I'm also posting on japanese imageboards but...
So far I'm trying to fix mistakes that give out redflags on how Japanese is not my mother language.
so far this is the sentence I was about to write
I'm trying to say that I have a friend that owns the online version of a game, and he's a big fan of the company who makes the game so he's also buying the offline version of said game. I'm also trying to say that they could make the online version offline through a patch/update, but since they want to sell the offline version too they most likely won't
From what I wrote, the main redflag would be the ??????????, which is just awkward, and I actually meant to use ??? (by the means of).
But besides that is there any other mistake that would scream "gaijin"?
I don't think it's that easy to sound like a non-gaijin.
Even if you type grammatically correct shit it probably won't be the same way a nip would say it. Just get over the fact that they'll find you out, post, and then see what they laugh at you for.
it isn't indeed, I just started lurking/posting. I'll get the hang of it with time I guess.
I hope someone can still help since this would work in polishing my grammar a little
Aren't compounds easier to learn than individual kanji? Usually you can derive the word from the meanings of each kanji (?? = much chance = probably), or the pronunciation of each kanji (??? = de / ki / ru).
I'm happy when I get a compound in Anki, especially if I already know the individual kanji, because it's kind of fun to try to figure it out.
Does Rikaikun have a shortcut for extending the lookup length? I only get batan
In terms of meanings yes, but you can extrapolate if you know the readings of the kanji. Maybe not the first time you see the compound, but when you see it a few times it can be easier to remember (than individual kanji). At least that's how it is for me.
There is only two worthwhile pre-made vocabulary decks, Core2k/6k optimized and Core10k optimized. The further optimized deck may be good too.
The "Jouyou" kanji deck is pretty good.
Probably not. It's the same as the normal 2k but presented in a much superior order that isn't random and awful. It would have been vastly preferable to begin with it but too late now.
I notice almost all the deck is suspended at the start, does the cards activate as you go along or do you have to do it manually?
And if I finish the core 2k/6k and want to move up, is it possible to do the 10k without starting over or having to screw with the deck?
Core2k/6k optimized contains the first 6k vocab. Core10k optimized contains 6001-10,000, so do not worry about starting over.
As for the suspended cards, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I downloaded Core2k/6k optimized and there's no such thing.
You know, we haven't really discussed how to learn kanji here at all. There have been no discussions on the subject. There are no resources available to you that could answer that question. It's a good thing you asked it here.
I've never thought about using a triple particle until you mentioned it, can that even work? I've never seen such a thing before. The only way I can imagine using something like that is, for example, ????????????????????????? assuming you're allowed to omit the verb after that ?.
You are far more advanced than me and I was making a half-joke. Shakespeare "did the impossible", changing grammar and inventing words, that's the idea I was going for. Changing the foundations of Japanese by introducing a triple particle or something ridiculous like that is an extremely skilled Japanese writer could do.
Tone of voice makes it a question. (Presumably. And ? is a particle that tends to make things lean heavily towards questions anyway.)
>Hey guys, romajii would be so easier lololol
i don't understand why ?? is sometimes used at the end of sentence. I know it is normally used for contradictions.
wouldn't this sentence work without it? What does it imply?
It is a contradiction. From lack of context, I can only guess it's trying to say "hey, *but* if go back now it'll be a bad idea.", in a "here's the problem with that plan" kind of way.
No, this one.
It has the kanji, it's meaning, and some other information. If you're gonna do RTK you should get a RTK deck, though I don't know of any.
Yeah I got it from Rikaisama. I still have a lot to learn. Like the use of ? to emphasize the sentence. I was stupid and should have used Rikaisama before asking. But thanks for helping me out. Hope I'll understand things like sentence ending soon.
>In fact I was trying to emphasize it was a contradiction.
That's a bad idea considering it isn't
Monobeno -happy end-, no joke.
I'm still in grammar mode and I'll tell you that it's going to take a while. Since you will spend most of your time studying and breaking down vocab. Hell it will take a few minutes just to break down one sentence.
???????????? is "Cum all you like!" but I'm a bit confused about the first part, can someone help me with it? It's something about seeing a being shown one's "cumming form" but that's as far as I get.
I read the English visual novel, not the Japanese.
It takes a bit but once you get it, you get it. I'm currently struggling with ? form in sentences like >>111844181 . But I used to struggle with the ? particle and now it's like breathing.
No, -happy end- just contains the original story and changes a few badly written parts and fixes the ends that pissed off a whole lot of people. I said no joke because many people believe Monobeno is a mindless lolige. It does have a lot of h-scenes, but most of them are optional.
The game does an extremely good job pulling off the rural Japanese atmosphere and it's got loads of shrines and youkai stuff which just added to the enjoyment for me. It's a really neat read all the way around, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did if you decide to pick it up.
If there's one thing I love about the Japanese it's that they all band together and seed their erotic porn games through hell and high water. I don't know why Higurashi is different, perhaps because it's a doujin game?
Everywhere I go (vng on /jp/, for instance) doesn't think Monobeno is mindless.
>people bitching at this guy because they read at a fifth grade level
before you fucking gorge yourself with nip shit maybe you should try some of the widely available and obviously superior western media you ineffably idiotic neanderthals.
Let me help you, by repeating what a lot of people here say.
Read raw Japanese text, and look up the grammar used. Preferably something that has a pre-existing translation. It helps a lot more than just reading Tae Kim over and over.
Says "Status Unknown" for me. I'll give it a try.
Lolis are never a joke. I'll make sure to try it. Do you know what -pure smile- is about? All I gather is that it's for Vita.
-More smile- are just bonus h-scenes for each character. I grabbed Natsuha's a month or two ago when I saw it uploaded and it doesn't really add anything to the story at all. Hope you have fun, you should be set on your "Japanese countryside" fetish for a month or two now assuming you read at a similar speed I did.
Well I'm building my vocab from Tae Kim. Every new vocab he list I add it. Sadly I'm having trouble remembering the kanji (both kana breakdown and definition) but I feel I'm slowly making it.
Is there a premade one for just grammar?
Thanks I'll look that up.
Most of these awful words are easier to remember if you try to find their origin. Usually they come from the repetition of another word.
For example, ?? [??] means to shake, which is quite similar to ????.
???? means thinly or slightly, which probably comes from ?? [???]
Before you troll, name fifteen of his plays that feature precisely eight female characters, one of which has to commit suicide in a river before the final act.
If you can't, you don't understand Shakespeare.
>one of which has to commit suicide in a river before the final act
Remove the part about the river and that could be any Shakespeare play. Bitches be dying left right and centre in that shit.
It's really pathetic to try and learn a new language when you are still struggle to make use of common vocabulary and basic grammar in the language you do speak. That's probably why so many people love TK. He's terrible at English too.
Forst most Japanese Sound effects like that I internalize some anime loli chanting them while singing. Nyuuru~ Nyuuru~ for instance. Therefore I can't very well get "slither/wriggle" from that. Actually, is slither/wriggle an accurate definition for ???????
I hate when shitposters don't use a tripcode. It's so rude. If you are going to post retarded offtopic shit and not even sage, please do the rest of us the courtesy of using a tripcode so we can filter you. It's not even courtesy. I shouldn't use that word. If you don't put on a tripcode I will personally call the new moderator of /a/ (who I used to watch code geass and one piece with in collage) and get you banned. Is that what you want? Just use a tripcode you stupid little fucks, or I will bring down the wrath of moot upon your pathetic little asses, and the boards of 4chain will never be the same. Toodleoo, and remember to get your shitposting codes on by the time I get back, crossboarding tools.
Damn sound effects, this hentai was such a quick and easy read before that I felt like I was learning something, now the woman it using a different sound effect in each bubble.
That might actually be ????. I looked it up but failed to find any results on ?????. Could someone tell me what it is?
I thought ???? was squeak... I forgot to include an image of the text so people here could judge for themselves, sorry.
I also forgot to mention the context, damn it. This hentai doesn't have much of a story. Two people are fucking... That's really it. This particular page is difficult for me to read though (every page before this was easy, this one is suddenly difficult, it gets easy again on the next page). I'll provide the lines for whatever context there may be.
"Penetrating my pussy like this" I think.
"You mustn't shoot your semen into my pussy" I believe.
That line I asked about.
I think here she's saying that his dick is at the entrance to her womb, and to endure it.
That's really all the context I can give.
I don't think it has as much to do with imagination as does with 1) inexperience and 2) lack of information. I'm really not sure how I'm supposed to use the magic of imagination to figure out what ????? means.
?????. What could it mean? It sounds like either some morose laughter or a sad loli verbalizing "Q Q" for some reason. Maybe it means 9 9? That doesn't make much sense either. It sounds sort of like "pew pew" which means to shoot.
Is that it? Does ????? mean to fire off some semen? That's where my imagination has taken me.
Does anyone know what ???????????????????? and ?????????? imply? I can't follow this shit and I think it's because I don't get exactly what these two phrases mean. For clarity, the one's who's talking is considered a ??, and the first phrase is in contrast to ?????? which the one she's speaking to said before that.
I used to do that on the Debian forums years ago when I used it. Call Debian shit, say that it can't even do [X] as easily as Windows or Ubuntu, and they used to tell me exactly how it was done while laughing at my stupidity.
You know how people often adapt certain mannerisms such as saying "whilst" and speaking in a high-brow tone when they want to sound smart?
Well, typing in Japanese can often mean the same thing, especially in regards to the post that anon was referencing. He used Japanese not to answer a question but to insult two dudes that were speaking in English. Why did he use Japanese to insult them and not English? To show off is the only answer.
Note: Woman is kinda raping the guy (if you can count it as rape, he's clearly enjoying it).
Is she saying "You want to cum in a woman you just met and who is raping you?"
>He doesn't like femdom!
>He doesn't like seeing a woman tie up a man's cock so tight that he can't cum!
>He doesn't like seeing a woman plant her big, sweaty ass on a man's face and nearly suffocate him!
>He doesn't like seeing a woman tie up and whip the shit out of a man!
>These things don't make him harder than a fucking diamond and send him into a fapping frenzy like nothing else!
That's alright, we've all got our different kinks.
>Isn't there missed meaning
exact translation, if even possible in the first place, is wasted energy
sure passive ("raped by") might be better than present progressive ("is raping") if you want to go "ohh lookit i know what ??? means"
but who cares
I vomited when I saw your memecarrots
then I read them and vomited again
not even once
I honestly have difficulty trusting your advice when you say stuff like "I vomited when I saw your memecarrots" and full comprehension of vocabulary. You remind me of Namasensei in a way.
I've re-looked at the sentence and this is my analysis.
If you interpret ??? "actively" then you get "you are raping a girl you just met" instead of the correct passive "being raped by a girl you just met". Right?
>If you interpret ??? "actively"
I think you actually understand what passive form means, but strange little thoughts like these disturb me
Not that guy but
I'm guessing it's "2200" of dedicated hours though. I'd bet it's still not enough
>three writing systems and two syllabries add to the difficulty
They consider romaji it's own writing system that somehow adds to the difficulty. Kana too. Those are literally the easiest part of Japanese. Kanji isn't "hard" either, it's just a lot of work/time to recognize them.
I just saw a single text bubble that consisted of this in a hentai post-fuck. Is this supposed to be a breathing sound or what? The only other text bubble in the panel was a ?? so that's what led me to think that ? was just a breathing/wheezing sound.
Damn, nothing that I do seems to get this to work. I've been trying to fix it for over a day and I still get this missing subject for `' error in the grammar part of JGlossator.
I've tried to add in everything from extremely simple sentences to more complex ones and it's the same error every time.
Does anyone know how I can fix this?
If you're not working then it's really not that much at all. It's actually a bit on the low side for someone who isn't working.
There's 16 waking hours in the average day, so that leaves you with an entire half of the day to do whatever you want. I would feel like I was slacking if I only let myself study for 8 hours. The average school day or work day is roughly as long, you're just replacing 8 hours of studying at school or working with 8 hours of studying Japanese.
One more question.
This shows up during the next sex scene (which happens to be the last). It's something about the boy being a pervert and fucking the girl but I was hoping someone would help me get a more exact translation.
I have them and there's a lot of useful information on it, especially on the Spoken Japanese, Advanced Grammar, and Beyond Vocabulary cards, but I don't like how crammed the information is. Makes it difficult to reference quickly. I've been meaning to get around to typing out all of this stuff so I could reference it easier.
2200 classroom hours. Those numbers come from the FSI, and when people take those courses they have hours of homework every night after the classes. So the actual number is probably 1.5-2x that.
The average high school day is 6 hours, and the average college day for me was ~3. I'm a NEET who has never had a job, so doing something for 8 hours a day sounds impossible to me.
You get used to it pretty quick, and it helps if you have stimulants. I used to do nothing but sit around and play video games or jerk off. I was able to do that for 7 years because I was homeschooled, now I study between 8 to 13 hours a day.
Why did japanese suddenly become so much harder?
Is the fishing chapter in Yotsuba particicularly difficult in comparison to the rest? Either it is or there's something wrong with me lately.
Can someone help me with this? ??????? confuses me. The only thing I can think of is (rough translation) "As I thought... It's in accordance with my thoughts..." So basically, "As I thought, it's as I expected" but those are essentially the same thing. If it helps, that line is followed with: ??????????????…
I just keep the activities varied. It was a lot harder back when I was first started and my studying possibilities were basically just limited to reviewing the kana, basic grammar on Tae Kim, and some basic vocab reps. Doing that for 8 hours was tough, but as long as I kept juggling between the three activities, occassionally throw in some listening practice by watching a raw episode of something if it got really bad, then I could always get at least 8 to 10 hours. It also helps to have a timer so that you can keep track of exactly how long you've been studying.
Now that I'm mostly reading though, it's not very difficult at all. Play a game that I'm interested and look up vocab and reference grammar as needed, if I start to feel like I'm burning out then I switch to a VN that I'm interested in, after that maybe some manga, then sprinkle in a little listening practice here and there and before you know it 13 hours have gone by.
The trick is to always switch to something else if you feel yourself getting too burned out from a particular activity. It's like juggling. As long as you keep switching then you can keep going until you're eventually too tired to stay awake since it doesn't really feel like you've been doing the same thing for 8+ hours, as much as it feels like you've been doing a whole bunch of different things over the course of 8+ hours.
Oh, forgot to answer the part about the sleep schedule. It's free-running sleep, I guess. I sleep when I'm tired, I wake up when I wake up. Some days I'm awake during the days and other days I'm awake at night. No real pattern to it.
"Well you sure turned out to be the kind of perverted boy who would thrust into my pussy~" or something equivalent.
??? (or the past tense in general) is often used not to refer to the literal past, but to signal an inference or realization.
So you look up/learn vocab as you see them? I do writing as well so I have to right everything I don't know down to study. Though the problem for me is if I go through to much content I end up having numerous pages to go through and that kills my motivation. The other part would be if I'm low on sleep I cannot concentrate for shit so even if I try to study I end up absorbing nothing and give up.
I wouldn't think too hard about it. It's easy to let the strict dictionary definitions of words translate the sentence for you in your head, but language is more malleable than that.
This might be "Look! From here..." or something, the nextsentence may help but I'm having trouble with part of it.
??????????? is "Wrapped in the scent of a woman's juices..." or something. It's the next part that confuses me. The rest is something about masturbating a perverted boy's phimosis dick (that's actually what she's doing, whacking him off) and something about his male scent but I'm having trouble clearing it up. Can I get some help with the rest of that sentence?
Can someone help me out with this line from Clannad?
I am pretty lost, but I think it is something along the lines of "The teachers drew back into the staff room frightened, while she alone fought back." The translation in the english patch doesn't seem to make much sense either, so could someone break it down for me?
>So you look up/learn vocab as you see them?
Yeah, I just let it absorb naturally for the most part. I use rikai to import the words to anki though, that way if I run into a word a second time and I don't recognize it then I'll know that I've seen it before when the import error pops up. I'll sometimes review these words if I feel like it, but overall, I don't put a big focus on memorizing vocab. I used to, but that was before I was doing much outside of anki and the only words I knew came from Core. In my experience, most of these words that I run into while reading eventually were retained through exposure and the ones that aren't only take a second to look up with rikaisama. Grammar and reading exposure in general is my main priority at the moment. Grammar by far gives me the most trouble right now and vocab look-up software has become so convenient that I don't even find it irritating, so I didn't really see too much of a need to invest a lot of time in vocab retention until I've gotten past the point where 90% of the time the problems I have are always related to grammar.
>Though the problem for me is if I go through to much content I end up having numerous pages to go through and that kills my motivation.
That's one of the main reasons why I stopped using anki to the extent that I used to and if I was writing then I'd imagine it would be even harder. I would just dread reading if I had to regularly review all of the new words that I run into from the average day of reading. As long as reading feels enjoyable though and it doesn't feel like you're just gathering up the words that will be used for torturing you tomorrow, then it's easy to do it non-stop for an indefinite amount of time, and I think that ability to be exposed to the language for really long periods of time without feeling burned out outweighs the negatives of not reviewing these words as thoroughly.
This guy only reads and listens. He's fluent in 10+ languages.
I think a lot of people here do it, I know that Steve will only do reading and listening for months before he starts to try to talk to people. I think it's that I'm just the only person here who seems to post long-winded stimulant fueled walls of text about it, so it sticks out.
Oh, if I was on amphetamines I'd probably just read too. It took me hours just to read up to when they first got to class in hanahira, so I don't think I read fast enough to get enough review.
The teachers who don't come out of the staff room because they're scared
Leaving aside the teachers who...
Never mind the teachers who...
Forget about the teachers who...
Let's face it on our own.
I'll face it on my own.
We'll face it on our own.
I read the /int/ sticky
I've spent about 1hour today learning hiragana. Keeping track of my progress
At least one hour a day
When I hit one thousand hours hopefully I'll be able to play Japan only games
I want to try guys. Please stay with me on my journey
I guess I'm used to being on /fit/
Were all gonna make it on there
I'm already in shape now time to learn Japanese.
You're going to do good in all your endeavors bro, I believe in you
>reading Harry Potter
>can read pretty good
>only have to look up words once in a while
>have to read for 3 hours to get my 50 new words for the day
>usually only like 1 new kanji a day
>start reading albatross to see how hard it is
>looking up multiple words per sentence
>1 hour later already have 50 words to add
>including 7 new kanji
Can someone figure out the first Kanji in the quote here? It's blurry as fuck and I didn't find it on jisho when I searched with the ? radical.
I know that she is talking about the place that they are currently in, which was localized as "Aureole" but that didn't help me much.
You are dumb as hell for trying to read that so early on. Mareni is about as close to a proper novelist as you can get in the eroge industry and it's a shame you're going to ruin his works crawling through them like that. If you're going to mine words do it in something a lot easier like Grisaia that still has a high vocabulary level. You might even be able to actually understand it as opposed to looking up a a billion words.
It feels like I'm reading poetry, and it feels like there was a lot of effort put into writing it, so I'm putting in a lot of effort in return. I'm not just skimming through it or anything, I'm deciphering every sentence slowly to make sure I understand it fully. I'm having fun and the decrypting of each line adds to the feeling of adventure and I think immerses me even more in the setting, although I don't really know what it's going to be like later on since I only just started.
Well good luck man, but I really doubt you'll be able to keep that up for the entire work. If you do then my hats off to you but Albatross is a pretty difficult read. It is absurdly long winded and very wordy all the way through, it doesn't really let up at any point. It gave me a shitload of difficulty and I only recently read it myself.
If you're looking for more stuff with kanji and vocabulary you don't see everyday then check out Masada's stuff whenever you feel like it. http://vndb.org/v12455 is a hell of a ride.
Maybe I won't last, but going in with an attitude that you need to finish everything you start, while appealing, I think is counter-productive to learning. I'm having fun now, and I'll keep reading until I stop having fun. There have been so many times when I approach something with that attitude and it usually never works out or it burns me out. The times when I've had the most fun and made the most progress is when I approach things with an "I don't really care that much" sort of attitude.
Alright, I'm a bit confused here. I recently started to learn Japanese. I've gotten the kana down really fast and easy (as expected). Problem is the transition from easy to learn kana into kanji is too different in terms of difficulty.
I watched all of Tae Kim's videos and I felt the speed at which he drops out new vocabulary is too fast without any explanation of it. He even suggests not memorizing kanji and to just learn the grammar with it (or something along those lines). Doesn't that go against the use of anki?
Also, I'm new to anki but is it literally just "memorize x number of kanji every day"? Kana was super easy because of the simplicity as well as the fact you can relate it with an image or something like that. I think the deck I installed was Core10k (which reading a post above I think said was 6k-10k) so that might have been a bad idea. But am I really just memorizing kanji? I don't get where I'm supposed to start after the kana because it's too vague (things say to learn vocab and grammar at the same time).
tl;dr: I need direction.
Yeah and that's a fine attitude to take. I did the same thing as a matter of fact, that's not really the issue though.
My point was taking that attitude with highly acclaimed, notoriously difficult titles is a good way to ruin legitimately good stuff by dropping it halfway through due to frustration and lack of knowledge. I'm speaking from experience, but you really don't have to believe me. If you really do learn that way and you're ok with the possible consequences then by all means carry on. I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope you make it through.
I've just discovered this add-on (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1627628203), and omfg I fucking like it, I'm currently using it now just for auto-generating furigana though (from sentences I've mined on http://www.linguee.com/), I'm still not using its full capabilities because:
-Does anybody here know of a deck with cloze support? (or any deck for that matter where I can easily use this plugin) I'm currently using the JapanesecorePLUS deck, and it has a different note type.
Or maybe this is a better question; Does anybody here know of a deck that actually used this add-on? It seems unlikely that there's none, it's quite a powerful add-on I must say.
I assume RTK is Remembering The Kana? I don't have any problems with kana at all. How would that help me with kanji? And I have read the RTK pdf as well as watched a video series of it.
Oh, my bad. I looked through the guide and pastebin but didn't find that. Guess I'll have to look online for it elsewhere. Thanks for the suggestion.
Also for confirmation, is kanji just about memorizing a lot of it basically? If so, I may have to work at it slower so that I won't forget a lot of it.
Don't be too overwhelmed, Kanji is actually easy if you study its components called "radicals" (the building blocks of Kanji).
I'm saying this because I'm currently studying Kanji at a faster rate than I learned the kana, why? Because all Kanji basically have the same "components", and sometimes the components are even the kana themselves because kana were basically derived from Kanji.
You might want to try the KanjiDamage way (there's also a KD deck in Anki). If you find it hard to memorize Kanji with a lot of readings, be picky with only the "most" important ones, although as for myself I create my own mnemonics to glue all of the readings together.
I'm currently learning around 15/day.
Read up his explananations, don't take everything seriously though because some of his explanations are downright wrong.
Yeah, the worst thing is overdoing it so that your retention tanks.
Get a vocab deck and go very slowly at first. Then progressively faster as you get more used to Kanji. RTK will help you make sense of them and learn the underlying principles, but is not a great method in the long run.
Yeah it's scientifically proven that after 10 years old it's almost impossible to learn a new language. If you're using RTK remember to go really slow, if you forget even one you're going way to fast. You need to get everything perfect before you move on. Have fun.
And btw, even if you don't go with the KD method, I would still suggest that you download the KD deck because the mnemonics are quite useful.
What I did was I re-ordered the entire KD deck in the order of the "Tuttle" Kanji book (which strikes a good balance between Radicals and usefulness), and I added all of KD's missing Joyou Kanji.
I was looking at KanjiDamage just a second ago and it seems like a good starting point.
Which deck would you recommend?
So while using KanjiDamage, I should look up the meaning of everything at the same time?
Where you going at the same pace now as when you didn't know a single Kanji? Are you insane? You clearly don't remember how confusing this was when starting out.
I use Core10k Optimized.
>So while using KanjiDamage, I should look up the meaning of everything at the same time?
No use, a vocab deck (I would suggest japcorePLUS), suspend the entire deck, and unsuspend vocab wherein you know the Kanji.
Mark (using Anki's mark system) every vocab that you have un-suspended, re-position them in order (using Anki's repisition command), and you're good to go.
Use these search syntaxes when un-suspending cards:
"deck:Japanese corePLUS" expression:*?* -tag:marked
"deck:Japanese corePLUS" expression:*?* -tag:marked -is:suspended
I see that you're still new to Anki, read up on the doc, and when you read up the "search syntax" of anki you'll understand why you'll need both of those syntaxes when suspending and un-suspending cards.
Copy-paste the syntax somewhere before this is 404d.
>I see that you're still new to Anki
Yeah, that sure looked like a handful. Is it especially necessary to learn how to use anki like that or can I go without having to fiddle with it much?
I would suggest that you really study Anki, learning Jap is gonna take about 3 years so you might as well sharpen your tools before delving into a complicated language such as Jap.
It would dramatically reduce your study time believe me, especially if you know how to tweak anki to fit your needs.
There're a lot of add-ons for Anki btw, you might want to check this page out (https://ankiweb.net/shared/addons/).
In particilar I'm using:
-Replay buttons on card
-Cloze Furigana Tools
Btw, if you use the "Jap core plus deck", change the HTML coding of the second card template to reverse the Front and Back part of that card.
Specifically, the first card should be "JAP-eng" (it's the first card), the second card is buggy, but it's easy enough to change it to "ENG-JAP".
And if you become quite proficient in anki, you might want to add a third card called "Audio" recognition. (you listen to the card, then you try to recall its meaning).
They're not suspended.
Anyway, I don't get what you're trying to say.
I was giving him instructions on how to learn vocab "in parallel" with Kanji that you ALREADY know. The crucial part here is that he knows the Kanji, he can't be learning the deck in the default order when you download it because, first of all it starts with KANA vocab and the order in which the deck is arranged is surely not the same as the order he'll study it.
>No use, a vocab deck (I would suggest japcorePLUS), suspend the entire deck, and unsuspend vocab wherein you know the Kanji.
Assuming you do this, what is the point of repositioning the cards? The vocab with unknown kanji will be suspended so it will be irrelevant.
Actually I misunderstood your first post.
But honestly I think if it's still studied in the same order rather than in a haphazard manner, i.e., learning Vocab containing similar Kanji next to each other, I think it makes for better retention don't you think? Since they're bound to have similar meanings.
I was told some very useful information that has helped my comprehension. It's probably in Tae Kim but I didn't quite get it until now.
>The verb at the end usually dictates tense and other stuff, for example, in X??Y???, the ??-want extends to X and Y.
>tfw i've been studying for 4-5 days and am already spotting blatant mistranslations in my chinese cartoons
I always knew they were suspect but this is ridiculous. I've been getting shafted for the last decade.
How do I get used to clauses? I'm trying everything I can think of it and it still confuses the hell out of me and doesn't seem to be improving at all. I can't keep it all straight in my head when I try to read a sentence like this.
Are these the clauses if you divide it up?
It's so frustrating to see so many verbs that aren't really verbs because they all just dogpile onto that word at the end of the clause.
You may be mistaking localization / embellishment for mistranslated. Don't get so arrogant, sub translators, at least, are fairly experienced and would't make a legitimate stake a 5-day beginner could spot.
>sub translators, at least, are fairly experienced and would't make a legitimate stake a 5-day beginner could spot
Is this guy serious?
Yes. I didn't mean to type stake instead of mistake, but I'm seriously. Any "error" you find is likely a deliberate choice. Do you think groups other than Hadena hire translators straight from DJT?
I guess so, I'm not really sure what the word for it is. If it's something small like that then I can understand it, but when it's a dozen words all modifying a single noun then I'm lost. I don't know how to mentally keep all of that information in my head and still read in a linear way if I'm going to have to do a backflip to the beginning of this chain as soon as I hit the noun and figure out how to rearrange all those words in my mind so that they're modifying the noun.
>day 5 of learning
>think something is a mistake
>get really excited because I think I'm so good
>post about on DJT
>realize months later that actually I got it wrong and it was translated correctly
>feel ashamed and slowly stop giving my useless opinion as much
>eventually get good and only come to DJT laugh at the blind leading the blind
Does this seem about right?
Maybe you shouldn't try to rearrange them? I'm not especially good but I'm sure the nips don't do that. Maybe it's just something you get used to. There's no real reason "The running dog got wet" is superior to "Got wet the running dog" or whatever.
>There is no reason why you would screw up your grammar due to forgetting a language
Any programmer here?
It's seems I've found what I was looking for, but I'd like to take it a step further.
I've found this deck (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/90973261), it seems he took the liberty of running the code through a script he made on the deck. I have no idea how to do this though?
Any help DJT?
What do you mean verbs that aren't verbs? Just because it's not the main action, it can modify a noun and it's a proper verb.
Random example in English:
>A chilling breeze is blowing through the room.
Guess what, there are two verbs in this one. Is chilling not a proper verb here?
Any way I can make the hyperlink not underlined?
At least when the Chinese take over we'll be closer to learning it while the Americans cry over the weird symbols that they're too stupid to read.
If cultural significance was no issue, I'd learn Russian or Arabic. They are prettier.
I'm using the "Japanese support" plugin with the stroke order font.
I think it's only in this deck that this happens; why is the stroke order overlapping with the sentence?
How do i fix that?
>What do you mean verbs that aren't verbs? Just because it's not the main action, it can modify a noun and it's a proper verb.
>A chilling breeze is blowing through the room.
Honestly, my technical understanding of English grammar is terrible and I didn't even know that chilling was a verb. I don't know the part of speech for most English words, I just have a feeling for them and it's usually right. Almost everything I know about English came from it being my native language.
In my mind, there's words that describe things, words that are things, and words that do an action, and that's the extent of it. So in that sentence, I see chilling as a describing word that modifies breeze, which would fall into the "a thing" category. Blowing would be an action word though because the breeze is doing the action of blowing.
Well, for example, chilled is both a past-tense verb and an adjective. A chilled cat is "a cat that has been chilled" whether you interpret it as a verb or an adjective, I think.
And 17 hours later, I just happened to be looking at the thread again, how about that.
The Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, which has Basic, Intermediate and Advanced volumes. It's in the pastebin, as I recall.
>I bent the rules a bit to show that other languages have the same stuff.
I think I could begin to understand other languages if I just stopped thinking about the rules, but I assumed that would be a bad idea.
Is it possible for someone learning a second language to just say, "To hell with the rules" and still get good results? I know that's what I did with English, but I figured it was different because this isn't my native language. I'm checking the part of speech for every word, googling to see what it means when a particle goes with a certain part of speech, etc, but I don't even know this shit in English and it just makes my head hurt.
Is it possible to get good results from just reading as much as you can, context guessing when needed, listening as much as you can, and trying to develop a feeling for it? These rules have got me tied up so tightly that I can't see Japanese as anything other than this rigid and robotic set of rules, which all happen to reference English rules that I barely understand in the first place.
English is my second language. I learned it in elementary school, formally learning the names of conjugations like past perfect and so on. It didn't help much, and I could barely use it outside the classroom. The best teacher I had was the internet and video games, that's what actually taught me all the practical knowledge.
I wouldn't worry about the rules so much. Of course, you need to know how to put a verb into te-form so you can recognize it, and having a good grasp conjugations is important, but it's more important to get a feel for the language. Once you get used to it a bit, you'll start to naturally see where each word goes and which nouns they modify and so on.
How have you been using it when you study? I downloaded it awhile ago, but I'm not sure how to get any practical use out of it. The index seems to just be a shitload of little words and particles but nothing about whole grammar concepts.
Read, encounter unknown particle/special word, look it up on the index and read and study the entry.
Remember, it's a dictionary, so just like you don't learn vocab by reading a dictionary straight through, you don't learn grammar by reading all of TDoJG. Use it as a reference. If you don't know anything, then I think skimming Tae Kim for the basics is ok, but consult TDoJG if anything is unclear.
How can I tell which reading is more common? For words, I could just google them and look at the number of hits, but I have no idea how to look up readings.
For example, a word list told me that ?? is read as ????, but then I saw it pronounced in visual novels as ????. Should I just learn both?
I better be ???? when I finish this game, nice game though, would recommend to beginners, at first the inner monologues can be a bit difficult but it'll get easier.
Does reading easier things prepare you for harder things or will you eventually have to bite the pillow and let Japanese go in raw so you might as well get it over with early on?
It's comfortable to read yotsuba and manga like that, but do you learn anything if you're reading something that's comfortable and will reading enough easy shit have a cumulative effect that will make it easier to read harder things? I try to read VNs but they beat the shit out of me within the first few sentences, the sentences are much longer and more complex than anything I'm used to.
As with everything, you have to read things slightly above your level. If you read things you're comfortable with, you will learn little (though you might develop practice to read faster, perhaps). If you go too advance you won't be able to understand anything and will become unmotivated, so you have to strike a balance. If you go with something slightly above your level it's easier because then you can focus on the specific things you don't understand, and develop them using context, which you wouldn't have if you weren't understanding anything at all.
>and still get good results?
Being able to read without a dictionary? Sure.
Being able to watch anime without subs? Sure.
Passing the N1? Sure.
Posting on Futaba without the Japs accusing you of being Korean? Probably not.
Quantity > Quality
Doesn't matter if you can only kind of understand it or if entire lines of dialog are beyond you. Burn a path of shit through Japanese. Spray everything with shit. Butcher entire VNs, it doesn't matter how terrible your comprehension was as long as you are constantly spraying this language. You might hack it apart and ruin the original meaning of the story, but each VN will teach you many new things.
Eventually you will be able to look back at the ocean of VNs that you shit your way through and tossed aside like cum stained issues, and their sacrifices will be what built up your Japanese.
How well you read is no where near as important as how much you have read.
>Posting on Futaba without the Japs accusing you of being Korean? Probably not.
If you can evade the bans then wouldn't your Japanese improve as you adapt a little more each time and try to sound less Korean? I know that my spelling was terrible when I first came to 4chan over 7 years ago, but being continuously ridiculed improved my spelling and grammar more than school ever did. Hell, teachers should just bully their students if they want them to get good grades.
>Burn a path of shit through Japanese. Spray everything with shit. Butcher entire VNs, it doesn't matter how terrible your comprehension was as long as you are constantly spraying this language. You might hack it apart and ruin the original meaning of the story, but each VN will teach you many new things.
Just note, don't translate stuff for people while doing this.