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Thread replies: 569
Thread images: 51

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Guide (Start here):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5C7fCe07CDzYalZYZObzxv_fhw7RUNsLHiMAY-t7FA/edit

Reading List (Add what you read here):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Agk2IH0ZXhn7dDNmSW1BVFU5dVgyOHkzWjU4b2l2dkE

Resources:
http://pastebin.com/w0gRFM0c

Previous thread:
https://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/111787674/
>>
?????????????????????????
>>
You can't learn Japanese.
>>
>>111831791
???????????
>>
How long would it take me if I started to learn japanese at a rate of an hour every two day?
>>
Recommendations for grammar? Is Genki ok? I've read Tae Kim but I feel it skips over or has bad explanations for too much stuff. (Which I later looked up on TDoJG and it made perfect sense.)

Also, is there any good way of mining context along with words with Rikaisama?
>>
>>111831892

I did that, and it took me 2-3 weeks to get basically all the basic hiragana down. Mind you, I'm a postgraduate programmer who also likes to read philosophy.

I just started diving into remembering the kana, but the author has all these weird names for each type of line like "dagger" and "boomerang" and i don't know anyone finds this useful.

My reccomendation, go to this site: http://www.yosida.com/en/hiragana.html

and click on the letters, it shows you with an animation how to learn the writing
>>
>>111831892
How long until what? The learning doesn't stop until you die
>>
>>111831928
I read genki, it's pretty good but it can be slow at times.
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>>111831928
I think Genki should be read even if you've read Tae Kim already. They complement each other well
>>
>>111831892
How long until what? There's a huge difference between being fluent, and just barely managing to read something with a text hooker. The former would take 5+ years, the latter maybe a few months.
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>>111832013
I'm not still learning English.
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>>111832077
>>111832013
Well until I can understand japanese enough to watch anime without subs and read manga.
>>
>>111832265

You don't realize it but you are.
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>>111832265
If anything, I seem to be getting worse. (Fucking typos, typos everywhere. And I misspell definitly every time.)
>>
>>111831998
Thanks, I'm not sure if I will always have the motivation but it'd be really nice to be able to understand japanese and read it.
>>
>>111832293
I don't count looking up a long word I don't know once a month and then forgetting it 10 minutes later because I'll never see it again "learning".
>>
>>111832395

You have a long way to go. You need to know hiragana in its entirety, at least before you bother learning anything.

djt suggests knowing hiragana and katakana. I've got the basic hiragana down currently
>>
Hi. I want to learn Japanese, but I really cannot be assed to learn all these characters, the hiragana and katagana and what else. Are there any manga or visual novels with romanji only?
>>
>>111832669
Yes, there's a shitload. And they're even in English so you won't have to learn the language at all!
>>
>>111832669
>Hi. I want to learn Japanese, but I don't want to learn it.
>>
>>111832669
haha ha haha wo haru
>>
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>>111832669
>>
>>111832669
>yknow, i wanna learn.. but nooo... nvm...
>>
What's the name of that fixed up 2k deck? I'm trying to find it on ankiweb.
>>
>>111832669
>Are there any manga or visual novels with romanji only?
You are gonna hate that. trust me.
>>
>>111832420
Then you don't read enough (real books) or you are a scholar.
>>
OP, you FUCKED up and forgot to add "DJT" and the number. Jesus. Why did no one else say anything? This is thread 787.
>>
>>111833399
>A real book is something that has words you don't understand
Please, if your argument that you never stop learning something is correct then it can be applied to everything. That's one of Aristotle's 28 lines. It doesn't apply to everything, therefore it's not correct. Saying that learning a new word in your native language means you're still learning that language is utter stupidity. I've been taking showers all my life. If I figure out that the water feels better if I move the nozzle a tiny bit to the left, am I still learning how to take showers? If I figure out a way to breathe that helps me breathe in more air when my nose is stuffy, am I still learning how to fucking breathe after all this time alive? The answer is no, I know how to take a fucking shower and I know how to fucking breathe. Seeing something new, even LEARNING something new, doesn't mean you're still learning the entire fucking thing. If you want to say that it is then you're literally learning everything at every moment of your life until you die. It's fine if you want to think that, but then you've made it so general that it means literally nothing anymore, and in that sense you still aren't learning Japanese at that point anymore than you're learning how to breathe. The end. Period.
>>
What is ????? Is this some made up dokidoki yuri word? It has something to do with the state of kaori's pajamas. Is she just saying new in english with ? in front?

??????????????????????????

I thought it was new because she asked if her pajamas were ??? earlier. This "word" doesn't exist in any dictionary. But this sentence makes me question that initial interpretation. She's saying they?are now different from "???”
>>
>>111832289
Maybe 500 hours just to get listening comprehension down. To read Shounen comfortably, maybe 1000 hours, but that's just the basics.
>>
>>111833846
heh, i've recently finished reading hanahira. don't worry it's dokidoki yuri word.
>>
>>111833797
Not that guy but...

I guarantee that if you read poetry and literature you'll be stumped by grammar and meaning, not just vocab. Try reading John Donne for instance. You may get a superficial understanding but truly getting it all will be very difficult, and require more English knowledge than you currently have.

Being an English native isn't enough to have a mastery of the language. That is why English degrees exist.
>>
>>111833846
What I got from that was o+new, yes.
>>
>>111833984
>don't worry it's dokidoki yuri word.
It's not
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>>111833846
It is ????

She's not saying they're different from new; she's saying new is different (like "makes all the difference")
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>>111834106
but anon, bastardized cutesified japanese is dokidoki yuri word.
>>
>>111834155
Why would she add ? to that? How does that change the meaning?
>>
>>111834242
she considers the change *important*.
>>
>>111834319
So ? can signify importance as well as honor? Thank you.
>>
>>111834242
It's mostly convention for that word. It would less be recognizable in that usage (referring to clothes bought new) used without ?
>>
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>when I don't know what the definition word means in english either
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>>111834457
What are you referring to? That's only happened to me once, and that was "environs".
>>
>>111833985
Ok, I understand, let's move back to "you're still learning Japanese because you're still learning even your native language". What's the meaning of each of these? Unless there's some serious miscommunication between us, it means that because you might get confused with some grammar and not know some words in your native language, you're still learning your native language even today. It also means that even if you're fluent in Japanese, because you have to look up a word or grammar rule every once in awhile, you're still learning Japanese. That's such a meaningless thing to say though. It's pretty obvious that when people say "learning Japanese" they mean actively learning new vocab and grammar every day because they still aren't fluent enough to be able to be at the level where they're only looking up stuff about the same (give or take since it isn't their native language) as their native language. Saying "oh, well you're still learning the language every day until you die because you'll never know EVERYTHING" has a strong scent of elitism to it, almost like "you'll never get to stop, kid, take it from me". You're over-blowing the notion of "learning". Having to look something up at the same degree as your native language isn't hard or difficult or even note worthy. Saying that that's "learning" might be technically correct, but it's so vague and meaningless that there's really no reason why people should be saying it at all. If somebody hypothetically said to me "I know English", and they were a native, I wouldn't say, "yeah well actually you're still learning it". Because it's a meaningless thing to say.
>>
>>111834534

How young are you? You never "finish" learning anything, really.
>>
>>111834534
It's not only learning new grammar or vocab or what have you but also improving your skill. Usually when people say "you never stop learning" it's because you're always improving. Like, spend some time in Japan and you'll hear concise ways of expressing difficult things, and those techniques you can learn. For example using a legendary triple particle or something (???). I don't know.

Read Shakespeare. His English is far above anything you or I could write. His technique is unparalleled. Despite knowing all the grammar and all the vocab, you will never be as skilled as Shakespeare. That's what we're talking about.
>>
>>111834457
Yeah, ive also learned quite a few new English words.
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>>111834457
That's great, new english word for free.
>>
>>111834646
>>111834737
And his point is that's a meaningless thing to say unless you want to sound like an ass.

Though I think in this case it's too hard to define the "point" where you stop having to explicitly learn it.
>>
>>111834534

Just state the level of fluency you wish to achieve and maybe somebody will be kind enough to tell you.
>>
>>111834457
I had that with eloquence
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>>111834922
English is my second language and I can't believe people don't know words like this.
>>
>>111834646
I'll ignore asking how young I am because I honestly see that as a bit of an ad hominem. You also missed the point of what I was trying to say: You can say that you'll be learning forever, but it's meaningless to say because of how vague and worthless it becomes when you pair it with a native still learning their language.
>>
>>111835015
>I'll ignore asking how young I am because I honestly see that as a bit of an ad hominem.
Confirmed for underage.
>>
>>111834737
>Read Shakespeare. His English is far above anything you or I could write
Actually, I can read Shakespeare fine enough to say that his iambic pentameter isn't nearly the best thing about his works, it's just something he decided to add as extra spice.

>>111835060
Ok, now you're just trolling. Sorry that I think asking somebody how old they are in an argument is an ad hominem.
>>
>>111834914
>>111834914
>>111835015

Ad Hominem or not, my point is it's not a meaningless thing to say. It's just him showing his immaturity as a student, or someone inexperienced with serious academia.

Even with the english language, I can guarantee you that he probably introduces parenthetic expressions in a sentence incorrectly, at times.

Or perhaps he confuses the word aggravate with irritate, or forgets that a participal phrase at the beginning of a sentence must refer to the grammatical subject.

Really, I get that his point is that "oh it's just vague elitism that we *never realllllyyyy finish learning" learning.

And that attitude, is wrong.
>>
>>111835015
>ad hominem

No, that is age shaming, better learn how to use fallacies before using them in counter-arguments.
>>
>>111834990
What? It's not a common word at all, why would you expect people to know it? It's synonyms are way more common.

>synonyms: fluency, articulateness, >expressiveness, silver tongue, persuasiveness, >forcefulness, power, potency, effectiveness; >oratory, rhetoric
>>
>>111834990
I don't judge anybody's vocabulary anymore because I don't know the following words in Japanese:

Thread
Dance
Crumble
Fart
Elbow
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>>111835096
His iambic pentameter is just one facet of his brilliance. If that's what you choose to focus on perhaps you should try educating yourself.
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>>111834990
You want a fucking medal?
>>
>>111835155
>>111835212
He clearly took 101 classes and thinks he's an expert in every field.
>>
>>111835165
>articulateness
I have never seen that word being used in my life.

I'm not a native either and I think "eloquence" is a pretty standard word, and I learned my vocab playing computer games and reading porn.

I used to get the weirdest thing where people thought that I was trying to sound bigoted *on purpose* just because I used somewhat uncommon words. Does anyone have anything to say regarding that?
>>
>>111835167
?
??
??
?
?
>>
>>111835320

A lot of native speakers of english (british and americans) are poorly educated, and, not having learned the language to any special degree themselves, often do not know words that a foreigner might have picked up.
>>
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>>111835298
Yes please.
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>>111835384
Too bad, suck my cock!
>>
>>111835320
I do. Eloquence is a standard word in literature (books) and all that, very standard. I read it in elementary school / middle school books, and might have heard it on TV before then.

However, I NEVER hear anybody speak it. I guess you could say its the equivalent of chuunibyou. People just don't say stuff like eloquent unless they are being over dramatic.
>>
>>111835155
It doesn't matter, the fact is he tried to point out what he thought my age was to win an argument. I don't care what it's called.

>>111835102
You have no idea what I mean, apparently. How can you honestly say that adding something new into the pool every once in awhile is the same as actively learning something? It isn't, trying to argue that is stupid. Are you saying that the amount of work you put in during your first year is the amount you'll put in even when you're fluent? The fact is that you won't be spending hours at that point. Yes, saying that you're still learning Japanese even after you're fluent, and saying that you're still learning English, is a meaningless thing to say. You can argue against that point all you want, but you'll never be right about it.

>>111835212
Holy fuck man, you're getting on my nerves. His words, grammar, etc., aren't what makes him a genius. Maybe you should actually read and understand some of his works, because it's the actual plot and story that make him a genius. End of story, I'm not arguing about Shakespeare here. Go make a thread on /lit/ any maybe I'll respond.
>>
>>111835320
>somewhat uncommon words
For example?
>>
>>111835373
Thank you, but it'll take more than a list like that to know the words. Otherwise I would just like out all of CorePLUS and know everything.

Unless you were proving your knowledge to yourself, in which case congratulations on being more knowledgable than me.
>>
Can you tell me how shitty this attempt I made at Japanese is?
>????????????????????????????????????????

>????????……
>>
>>111835373
????is better for fart
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>>111835481
>because it's the actual plot and story that make him a genius.
Maybe YOU should actually read and understand his works. I lol'd at your post though, so nice job.
>>
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would people take their elegances and anemic centimeters to /lit/ please and stop killing the thread?
>>
>>111835481

Except it isn't meaningless because you're still learning. Even when you're fluent. Sure the amount of effort you put in won't be as great. But that's how mastery works.

As you become better at something, it becomes easier to you, so you find challenges that are more suited to your skill (learning specialised subjects, for example, do you know how to translate many philosophical words into japanese?)

So once again, you're wrong
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>>111835511
about 8 shits out of 10
>>
>>111835455
Eloquence is eloquence. It's not used commonly because how often do you get a chance to use the word in the first place? It's not chuuni, there's no real alternative way to say it. fluency and articulateness are not really synonyms, there is no good replacement for the word, most people just substitute it with longer explanation of what makes someone eloquent because they never come across the word because they don't read and it's uncommon.
>>
>>111835320
Non natives have the tendency of using rare words because of the reading materials. On the crazy world of Emily Bronte, bitch means female dog.
>>
>>111835487
"iridescent" when talking about weird looking meat. People looked at me like I was a fucking alien even after I explained what it means. ("The thing where oil puddles have rainbows or change colors depending on how you look at them.")
>>
>>111835567
?????
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>>111835558
Last response you're getting from me, troll. Just responded to let you know that.

>>111835577
Ok, you're obviously not understanding anything about what I'm saying. I don't think you're even reading what I post.
>>
>>111835511
shitty
>>
Just a quick question on a particle
Do you pretty much always add ka (?) when you pose a question? What about their question mark? I mean I don't see it used very often.
>>
>>111835665
I'm not trolling. Your eleventh-grade knowledge of Shakespeare compels me to laugh, which is very different from trolling.
>>
???????????????????????????????

I don't really understand how ??? works here with ????????, I'm 99% sure it's not ???. Context is his sister just suddenly got up and hugged him.
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>>111835703
>Do you pretty much always add ka (?) when you pose a question?

pretty much yes, if it's not obvious by context.

What about their question mark?

Japs don't like to use punctuation.
>>
>>111835455
I kept getting comments on my eloquent speech when I was in elementary school. I stopped reading in middle school to waste my life on the Internet, though, so that doesn't happen anymore.

It's not chuunibyou to use a word you know that fits a situation, just socially unaware I guess.
>>
>>111835819
? is the particle basically meaning "with"
>>
I sometimes use uncommon synonyms for things for emphasis (e.g. sarcasm). Does that count as chuuni?
>>
>>111835722
Ok, fine, you get one more chance. Why did the 5th Act of The Merchant of Venice exist when it was seemingly pointless? What's the meaning behind the title "Much Ado About Nothing"? List at least 3 comedy's that someone with an 11th grade knowledge of Shakespeare would think had a good ending but actually had an incredibly bad one, minus The Merchant of Venice since that was more of a problem play. If you can't answer these then I'm done even considering that you might be serious and not a troll. And no, I'm not answering for you. The fact that I even asked the question is proof enough that I know the answer.
>>
>>111835928
No, that's more pretentious than anything.
>>
>>111835819
It's ??. ? is particle.
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>>111835960

These were the questions his teacher made him write an essay on when he was a babby
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>>111835894
I kind of get it but, then again I don't really understand ?????, so basically he just felt really sentimental and then hugged her back?
>>
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I just bought a new laptop after having the same one for years. Why does the font in pic related look so pencil-y now? Maybe my old laptop had it wrong all this time and this is how it's supposed to look but it's really bothering me. Is there some sort of "setting" I can change somewhere?
>>
>>111836024
Ok, thanks for confirming you're a troll for whoever sees it.
>>
>>111835960
Why are you trying to prove your own knowledge by quizzing me? Are you trying to hide your ignorance by asking essay questions?
>>
>>111836024
>>111836091
>jokes on him I was only pretending to be retarded
Now can you two fuck off to /lit/ and stop masturbating over glorious America-jin Shakespeare?
>>
>>111836038
literally means "chest gets clogged". It's clearly a metaphor for an emotion. Either just go with the feel and guess, or look it up in a dictionary
>>
>>111835960
Oh, yeah, and you revealed your own ignorance with a question like "What's the meaning behind the title "Much Ado About Nothing"?". I mean, c'mon dude, that requires precisely zero comprehension of Shakespeare and approximately 100 contemporary slang? Zero points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
>>
>??????????????????????
???????????

>>111836220
??????? ???????? ??????????
>>
>ITT: Plebeians babbling about Shakespeare

If you are going to argue about unrelated things, then do it over something that is not middle school literature-tier.
>>
>>111836054
Looks normal to me, try Ctrl+0 to change zoom back to normal because that looks too big, otherwise try turning ClearType off (in Control Panel).
>>
>>111836303
That's some ?????? man. Maybe if you add more ?s you'll become even more cool and smart.
>>
oh you guys are fuckin energetic
>>
>>111835703
? is fairly commonly not used. Tone of voice alone can make something a question, which is represented in text with a question mark.

Equally, they don't need to use question marks if something like ? indicates that it's a question anyway.
>>
>>111836434
Are you flirting?
>>
Is it just me or are ?-adjectives relatively uncommon? Most of the time it seems ?-adj nouns get used instead.
>>
??????????????????????????????
What?
Sneaking in was fine but, I became tired right away and SOMETHING. No idea what ??????????????would be, other than the last being to do accidentally.
>>
>>111836470
It's probably just simpler to use in common speech.
>>
>>111836478
Did you try using a dictionary?
>>
>>111836402
>??????????????????????????????????
>>
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>>111836478
It is a mistery.
>>
>>111836478
>other than the last being to do accidentally.
Chau-form indicates unintentional/accidentally? I thought it meant "will happen in the future" or something of the sort. Like, "My X is becoming numb (in the future)"
>>
>>111836478
?????? = falling asleep immediately
>>
>>111836580
What fucking dictionary does Rikai-sama use, holy shit? On Chrome it does not show that, on Jisho it does not show that, nowhere does it show that but Rikaisama! Jesus, I have to have firefox open at all times now, just to use Rikaisama's engimatic dictionary.
>>
>>111836693
>>111836580
please do not help the retards
>>
>>111836591
It means things being done/completed. Which can be unintentional, if it's an uncontrollable action.

It usually corresponds to "have done/___" in english, but it can be in more than one tense. I guess it's kinda hard to explain, check out the explanation in TDoJG.

>>111836714
They pull the vast majority of their entries from EDICT. Also, you're embarassing yourself:
http://beta.jisho.org/search/%E3%81%B0%E3%81%9F%E3%82%93%E3%81%8D%E3%82%85%E3%83%BC
>>
>>111836988
http://jisho.org/words?jap=%E3%81%B0%E3%81%9F%E3%82%93%E3%81%8D%E3%82%85%E3%83%BC&eng=&dict=edict
>>
What kind of sound is ?????? I can't imagine that at all. Is there a reason for it to be written like that or is it just random "oh, a rolling peach must be ?????"?
>>
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>tfw you know the meaning of the kanji but not the kanji compounds

Oh fuck.
>>
>>111837050
I guess the regular version has outdated dictionaries then. If you check WWWJDIC directly it's there.
>>
What's the difference between ??????? and just ????
>>
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>>111836478
"Sneaking in was fine, but I became tired right away and unintentionally fell asleep in an instant."
>>
>>111837175
??????? has ???? on it's front. It's like asking the difference between air and water.
>>
>>111837126
I just bookmarked WWWJDIC, I'm surprised I hadn't already.
>>
Hey DJT. Right now I'm trying to form sentences in Japanese, and I'm also posting on japanese imageboards but...

So far I'm trying to fix mistakes that give out redflags on how Japanese is not my mother language.

so far this is the sentence I was about to write
???????????????????XXX????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????

I'm trying to say that I have a friend that owns the online version of a game, and he's a big fan of the company who makes the game so he's also buying the offline version of said game. I'm also trying to say that they could make the online version offline through a patch/update, but since they want to sell the offline version too they most likely won't

From what I wrote, the main redflag would be the ??????????, which is just awkward, and I actually meant to use ??? (by the means of).

But besides that is there any other mistake that would scream "gaijin"?
>>
>>111837332
>????
I just want you to know that this is phonetically equivalent to "butt love". Carry on.
>>
>>111834457

I ran into ????? last night, weird choice of word given the rest of the conversation.
>>
>>111837332
>I'm trying to fix mistakes that give out redflags on how Japanese is not my mother language

Why bother, would they eat you when they know that you're a gaijin?
>>
>>111837332
I don't think it's that easy to sound like a non-gaijin.
Even if you type grammatically correct shit it probably won't be the same way a nip would say it. Just get over the fact that they'll find you out, post, and then see what they laugh at you for.
>>
>>111837532
it isn't indeed, I just started lurking/posting. I'll get the hang of it with time I guess.

I hope someone can still help since this would work in polishing my grammar a little
>>
>>111837097
Aren't compounds easier to learn than individual kanji? Usually you can derive the word from the meanings of each kanji (?? = much chance = probably), or the pronunciation of each kanji (??? = de / ki / ru).

I'm happy when I get a compound in Anki, especially if I already know the individual kanji, because it's kind of fun to try to figure it out.
>>
I did it, woop, just wrote out all the basic hiragana and only forgot one: yo.

Now just to practice recognising the accented versions of them which are much easier, then katakana tiem
>>
>>111837659
Why?
>>
>>111837615
Who the fuck teaches ? as "chance"? The most common keyword is something like "part".
>>
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>>111836580
Does Rikaikun have a shortcut for extending the lookup length? I only get batan
>>
>>111837717

I'm a beginner
>>
>>111837738
http://jisho.org/kanji/details/%E5%88%86

It may not be usual, but I remember it better knowing that.
>>
>>111837615
Some are yes, but many of the compounds have different meanings that is unrelated with kanji.
>>
>>111837760
You're fucked. Either move to Firefox or get used to double checking with WWWJDIC/beta jisho.
>>
>>111837760
>>111837833
Install gentoo.

But you could figure this one out: It's Batan + Kyuu. So like throwing yourself on the bed or falling down to the floor while yawning.
>>
>>111837611
Which image board are you posting on out of curiosity?
>>
>>111837611
???? sounds kinda weird.
>>
>>111837812
In terms of meanings yes, but you can extrapolate if you know the readings of the kanji. Maybe not the first time you see the compound, but when you see it a few times it can be easier to remember (than individual kanji). At least that's how it is for me.
>>
>>111837913
>falling down to the floor while yawning
Yeah man, it's like, totally obvious.
>>
Is there anyone here that's taken N1? How fast should you do the reading questions?
>>
Which premade anki decks should I download? Theres so fucking many...
>>
>>111839022
There is only two worthwhile pre-made vocabulary decks, Core2k/6k optimized and Core10k optimized. The further optimized deck may be good too.

The "Jouyou" kanji deck is pretty good.
>>
>>111839144
What's the optimize 2k? I'm already on the 4th 2k deck and want to know if it's worth the hassle of switching.
>>
>>111839249
Probably not. It's the same as the normal 2k but presented in a much superior order that isn't random and awful. It would have been vastly preferable to begin with it but too late now.
>>
>>111839144
I notice almost all the deck is suspended at the start, does the cards activate as you go along or do you have to do it manually?

And if I finish the core 2k/6k and want to move up, is it possible to do the 10k without starting over or having to screw with the deck?
>>
Slowly reading Tae Kim's guide while adding his vocab to Anki. Any good tips on how to remember the different kanji and their kana parts?
>>
>>111839770
Core2k/6k optimized contains the first 6k vocab. Core10k optimized contains 6001-10,000, so do not worry about starting over.

As for the suspended cards, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I downloaded Core2k/6k optimized and there's no such thing.
>>
>>111839933
You know, we haven't really discussed how to learn kanji here at all. There have been no discussions on the subject. There are no resources available to you that could answer that question. It's a good thing you asked it here.
>>
>>111834737
I've never thought about using a triple particle until you mentioned it, can that even work? I've never seen such a thing before. The only way I can imagine using something like that is, for example, ????????????????????????? assuming you're allowed to omit the verb after that ?.
>>
>>111840264
You are far more advanced than me and I was making a half-joke. Shakespeare "did the impossible", changing grammar and inventing words, that's the idea I was going for. Changing the foundations of Japanese by introducing a triple particle or something ridiculous like that is an extremely skilled Japanese writer could do.
>>
>>111840392
I wasn't the guy you were responding to by the way, just some guy you got curious.
>>
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>>111840517
I know.
>>
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What is the ??? doing here, exactly?
>>
>>111840968
?????
>>
>>111841055
God I'm bad at this.

That didn't help much at all.
>>
Watching Samurai movies and Non Non Biyori has made me fall in love with the Japanese countryside, which VN should I play?
>>
>>111841312
Read Tae Kim? ?? is often short for ??. ????. If that doesn't help then you simply must read Tae Kim, or any grammar source.
>>
>>111841355
Higurashi
>>
>>111841361
I've read that part, I just don't see where ?? fits into it.
>>
>>111841456
????????
not acting tough ?
??
good
??
??

What is there not to get?
>>
>>111841548
How "good" fits into that. Wouldn't it read the same way without it?
>>
>>111840968
"If I don't act though, it's fine isn't it."

fine == ??
>>
>>111841675
Holy cow I'm autistic, that didn't even come to mind.
Thanks, anon.
>>
>>111841597
It would make absolutely no sense without it. The the English equivalent would be like something "Not acting tough is, right?".
>>
>>111840968
Not him but I thought ? was the question particle. So why is ? used? I'm still reading Tae Kim so my question maybe stupid and will be answered later on.
>>
>>111841784
I realize that now, I was trying to match it up with the subtitles which was throwing me off.

This is why I need to start reading again.
>>
>>111841890
Have you ever read anything before?
>>
>>111841808
Never mind I'm a moron. Rikaisama answered it.
>>
>>111841962
A little bit, no where near as much as I should.
If I have a jisho open I can usually wade my way through.
>>
>>111839144
is this the Jouyou Kanji deck you were talking about?

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2629359396
>>
>>111841808
Tone of voice makes it a question. (Presumably. And ? is a particle that tends to make things lean heavily towards questions anyway.)

>>111840968
>tsuyogaranakute
>Hey guys, romajii would be so easier lololol
>>
i don't understand why ?? is sometimes used at the end of sentence. I know it is normally used for contradictions.
example:
>???????????????????
wouldn't this sentence work without it? What does it imply?
>>
>>111842101
I've never understood the argument either.
>>
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>>111839946
>>
>>111842142
It softens the statement, kind of
>>
>>111842142
It is a contradiction. From lack of context, I can only guess it's trying to say "hey, *but* if go back now it'll be a bad idea.", in a "here's the problem with that plan" kind of way.
>>
>>111842090
No, this one.
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4233113570

It has the kanji, it's meaning, and some other information. If you're gonna do RTK you should get a RTK deck, though I don't know of any.
>>
>>111842369
thank you anon
>>
>>111842331
>contradiction
Did you mean "contraction"?
>>
>>111842309
>Vocabulary-Kanji/Furigana/Kana
Literally useless. You can just have the mixed one and have Anki display it the way you want...
>>
>>111842142
It can be like adding "though" at the end of a sentence in English. Except the Japanese do it more.
>>
>>111842101
Yeah I got it from Rikaisama. I still have a lot to learn. Like the use of ? to emphasize the sentence. I was stupid and should have used Rikaisama before asking. But thanks for helping me out. Hope I'll understand things like sentence ending soon.
>>
>>111842419
I did not. In fact I was trying to emphasize it was a contradiction.
>>
>>111842489
>In fact I was trying to emphasize it was a contradiction.
That's a bad idea considering it isn't
>http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/68969/m0u/%E3%81%91%E3%82%8C%E3%81%A9/
>???????????????????????????????????????????????????
>>
>>111841355

Monobeno -happy end-, no joke.
>>
>>111842724
I see it as a soft contradiction. You're hinting that you're disagreeing with the intent of the previous speaker.
>>
How many hours of studying japanese did it take for you guys to be able to play jp vidya or read untranslated manga? I've been on the grind for a while and I need some hope
>>
>>111843319
With a dictionary, several months; without a dictionary, I'll tell you when I get there.
>>
>>111841415
Looks interesting, but how do I even get hold of the Japanese version?

>>111842857
Should I play the original game first? And why would it be a joke?
>>
>>111843319
I'm still in grammar mode and I'll tell you that it's going to take a while. Since you will spend most of your time studying and breaking down vocab. Hell it will take a few minutes just to break down one sentence.
>>
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>>111843319
No hope here, only despair
>>
>>111843469
I was gonna snidely say download it off Sukebei but the only torrent there has one seeder, so I dunno, bro.
>>
>>111843469
>Should I play the original game first? And why would it be a joke?
No, afaik happy end is just a superset. And it could be a joke because it's an eroge about lolis.
>>
>???????????????????????

???????????? is "Cum all you like!" but I'm a bit confused about the first part, can someone help me with it? It's something about seeing a being shown one's "cumming form" but that's as far as I get.
>>
>>111843319

Oh... 7ish months? But that's with heavy use of a dictionary.
>>
>?????????????????????????????
What is ?????? ???????
>>
>>111843768
>one seeder
I don't see why that wouldn't work, but the only ones with seeders I can see are of the English version. Can you Link it?
>>
>>111843898
Not him but how long until the grammar starts to stick. I'm only near the start but the grammar feels so weird and most of the time it's not sticking.
>>
>>111843768
have you even played it by the way?
>>
>>111844590
The problem with one seeder is that it indicates either a quality problem or a content problem.

http://sukebei.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=6728
>>
>>111844684
I read the English visual novel, not the Japanese.
>>111844683
It takes a bit but once you get it, you get it. I'm currently struggling with ? form in sentences like >>111844181 . But I used to struggle with the ? particle and now it's like breathing.
>>
>>111843469

No, -happy end- just contains the original story and changes a few badly written parts and fixes the ends that pissed off a whole lot of people. I said no joke because many people believe Monobeno is a mindless lolige. It does have a lot of h-scenes, but most of them are optional.

The game does an extremely good job pulling off the rural Japanese atmosphere and it's got loads of shrines and youkai stuff which just added to the enjoyment for me. It's a really neat read all the way around, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did if you decide to pick it up.
>>
>>111844695
or a social problem. like people leeching
>>
>>111844917
If there's one thing I love about the Japanese it's that they all band together and seed their erotic porn games through hell and high water. I don't know why Higurashi is different, perhaps because it's a doujin game?
>>111844848
Everywhere I go (vng on /jp/, for instance) doesn't think Monobeno is mindless.
>>
>>111844773
That's what I thought. I'm not at the ?-form yet. But I read the Tae Kim grammar guide and more times than not it goes over my head.
>>
>>111834990
>people bitching at this guy because they read at a fifth grade level
before you fucking gorge yourself with nip shit maybe you should try some of the widely available and obviously superior western media you ineffably idiotic neanderthals.
>>
>>111845027
Let me help you, by repeating what a lot of people here say.

Read raw Japanese text, and look up the grammar used. Preferably something that has a pre-existing translation. It helps a lot more than just reading Tae Kim over and over.
>>
>>111844695
Says "Status Unknown" for me. I'll give it a try.

>>111844848
>>111842857
Lolis are never a joke. I'll make sure to try it. Do you know what -pure smile- is about? All I gather is that it's for Vita.
>>
>>111845081
Ah so just see why it's translated in a certain way? Got a manga that has a really good translation to work on?
>>
>>111845027
Don't just read it, get a premade anki deck with exercises for Tae Kim.
That's what i'm doing and i'm seeing an improvement in my grammar skills.
>>
>>111845110

-More smile- are just bonus h-scenes for each character. I grabbed Natsuha's a month or two ago when I saw it uploaded and it doesn't really add anything to the story at all. Hope you have fun, you should be set on your "Japanese countryside" fetish for a month or two now assuming you read at a similar speed I did.
>>
>>111845182
Yotsubato Reading Pack.
>>
>>111845258
Well I'm building my vocab from Tae Kim. Every new vocab he list I add it. Sadly I'm having trouble remembering the kanji (both kana breakdown and definition) but I feel I'm slowly making it.

Is there a premade one for just grammar?
>>111845314
Thanks I'll look that up.
>>
I'm sure a lot of people already have complained about this but holy fuck I sure wish DOJBG hadn't used romaji. It's really distracting.
>>
>>111845508
Just be glad that the other two don't.
>>
>>111845508
I should go and paint over the romaji with white rectangles. But then I'll just keep reading the furigana, argh.
>>
>>111843855
"Since I'm letting you watch me cum, cum all you like"
>>
>>111845936
I'll be glad when I get there. I need a Tae Kim supplement and Intermediate's too advance for that I imagine.
>>
>>111846304

Don't think so, she's not cumming at all. She's just sucking him off.
>>
>>111846132
I don't think it has furigana.
>>
>>111844181
?? means something like "to the extent" or rather "to the extent possible"
????????? would then mean like "gathering to the extent possible"
Then ? is just the normal particle
>>
What is the ?????? sound effect? I saw it in a hentai in some dialogue while a guy was fucking a girl.

?…????????…??????…??
>>
>>111846650
>??????
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/57829/m0u/
>>
>>111846304
?????? is watching, not showing
>>
>>111846724

So he's saying her vagina is... wriggling and coiling around him?
>>
>>111846814
Japanese are weird, ???? describes shaking tits or something.
>>
>>111846997
Actually, Japanese uses a lot of sound effects to indicate actions and what not, like with ??????? and "throbbing".
>>
>>111846997
Most of these awful words are easier to remember if you try to find their origin. Usually they come from the repetition of another word.
For example, ?? [??] means to shake, which is quite similar to ????.
???? means thinly or slightly, which probably comes from ?? [???]
>>
>>111834922
>>111834509
No offense, but I hope you guys aren't native speakers. I don't even read books and I know them. They're not particularly uncommon at all.
>>
>>111847330
Dont fucking try to derail the thread
>>
>>111847326
Easy to remember, yeah, but it's hell finding the definition in the first place. For "??????", none of the four dictionaries I reference had any entry.
>>
>>111847330
would you fucking retards just stop already
>>
>>111847388
B-B-BUT MUH SHEICKSPEAR
>>
>>111847522
Before you troll, name fifteen of his plays that feature precisely eight female characters, one of which has to commit suicide in a river before the final act.

If you can't, you don't understand Shakespeare.
>>
>>111847602
How about you don't.

Stop dragging the thread off topic, thanks.
>>
>>111847602
>one of which has to commit suicide in a river before the final act
Remove the part about the river and that could be any Shakespeare play. Bitches be dying left right and centre in that shit.
>>
>>111847047
Always was a fan of Akira Toriyama's ????. Where a woman rubs her breast in a guys face.
>>
>>111847388
>>111847521
It's really pathetic to try and learn a new language when you are still struggle to make use of common vocabulary and basic grammar in the language you do speak. That's probably why so many people love TK. He's terrible at English too.
>>
>>111847694
Is this your first DJT, anon?
>>
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>>111847497
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect
>>
>>111847784
I appreciate the link but I don't really think it will help me find definitions.
>>
>>111847852
guess.jpg
>>
>>111847852
More often than not, onomatopoeia is guessable. You're kind of amazing if you think ?????? describes falling icicles.
>>
>>111847852
http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/search/?keyword=%E3%81%AB%E3%82%85%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AB%E3%82%85%E3%82%8B&submitSearch=Search+SFX&x=

Site can bit a bit iffy sometimes however.
>>
>>111847981
Forst most Japanese Sound effects like that I internalize some anime loli chanting them while singing. Nyuuru~ Nyuuru~ for instance. Therefore I can't very well get "slither/wriggle" from that. Actually, is slither/wriggle an accurate definition for ???????
>>
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>>111847755
>>
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>>111848154
don't respond to him
>>
showing off your vocabulary skills on the internet is like showing off your breathing skills in the outdoors
>>
>>111848656
... who are you talking to?
>>
it must be hard needing visual guides to follow the flow of a simple conversation
>>
>>111848871
Who are you talking to?
>>
>>111848931
I hate when shitposters don't use a tripcode. It's so rude. If you are going to post retarded offtopic shit and not even sage, please do the rest of us the courtesy of using a tripcode so we can filter you. It's not even courtesy. I shouldn't use that word. If you don't put on a tripcode I will personally call the new moderator of /a/ (who I used to watch code geass and one piece with in collage) and get you banned. Is that what you want? Just use a tripcode you stupid little fucks, or I will bring down the wrath of moot upon your pathetic little asses, and the boards of 4chain will never be the same. Toodleoo, and remember to get your shitposting codes on by the time I get back, crossboarding tools.
>>
Damn sound effects, this hentai was such a quick and easy read before that I felt like I was learning something, now the woman it using a different sound effect in each bubble.

??????????????????…
That might actually be ????. I looked it up but failed to find any results on ?????. Could someone tell me what it is?
>>
>>111849323
http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A5%E3%83%83%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A5&ref=sa

Does "squeak/squeaky" fit the context?
>>
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>>111849723

I thought ???? was squeak... I forgot to include an image of the text so people here could judge for themselves, sorry.

I also forgot to mention the context, damn it. This hentai doesn't have much of a story. Two people are fucking... That's really it. This particular page is difficult for me to read though (every page before this was easy, this one is suddenly difficult, it gets easy again on the next page). I'll provide the lines for whatever context there may be.

>???????????????????…
"Penetrating my pussy like this" I think.
??????????????????????
"You mustn't shoot your semen into my pussy" I believe.
>??????????????????…
That line I asked about.
???????????????…???????
I think here she's saying that his dick is at the entrance to her womb, and to endure it.

That's really all the context I can give.
>>
>>111850218
Uhh... dude, that's ????
>>
>>111850218
>??
What does ???? even mean?
>>
>>111850218
>>111849723
????????????????????????
>>
>>111850567
omedetou for being great at japanese, anon
>>
>>111850463

Which is what I said here >>111849323, I just wasn't sure, which is why I posted the image.
>>111850563
It's the initial penetration sound of any hole.
>>
>>111850692
Well, ?? definitely sounds like penetration. Thanks.
>>
>>111850640
????????????
>>
>>111850763
I don't think it has as much to do with imagination as does with 1) inexperience and 2) lack of information. I'm really not sure how I'm supposed to use the magic of imagination to figure out what ????? means.

?????. What could it mean? It sounds like either some morose laughter or a sad loli verbalizing "Q Q" for some reason. Maybe it means 9 9? That doesn't make much sense either. It sounds sort of like "pew pew" which means to shoot.

Is that it? Does ????? mean to fire off some semen? That's where my imagination has taken me.
>>
>>111850968

Ah don't worry about it, he's just a novice as well. No one shows off and gloats like novices do.
>>
>>111851232
I'm hoping he gloats by telling me what ????? means, if not "squeaky".
>>
>????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????
Does anyone know what ???????????????????? and ?????????? imply? I can't follow this shit and I think it's because I don't get exactly what these two phrases mean. For clarity, the one's who's talking is considered a ??, and the first phrase is in contrast to ?????? which the one she's speaking to said before that.
>>
>>111851281

I used to do that on the Debian forums years ago when I used it. Call Debian shit, say that it can't even do [X] as easily as Windows or Ubuntu, and they used to tell me exactly how it was done while laughing at my stupidity.
>>
>>111851389
*misformatted
>>
>>111851402
Debian is shit, it can't even define ????? in English.
>>
>>111850218
?????like ???
???????like squeezing?
>>
>>111851232
You must be one bitter retard if you think typing in Japanese in the DJT counts as "showing off."
>>
>>111851521
You know how people often adapt certain mannerisms such as saying "whilst" and speaking in a high-brow tone when they want to sound smart?

Well, typing in Japanese can often mean the same thing, especially in regards to the post that anon was referencing. He used Japanese not to answer a question but to insult two dudes that were speaking in English. Why did he use Japanese to insult them and not English? To show off is the only answer.
>>
>>111851726
You are floundering. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
>>
???????????????????????

Note: Woman is kinda raping the guy (if you can count it as rape, he's clearly enjoying it).

Is she saying "You want to cum in a woman you just met and who is raping you?"
>>
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>>111851881
>>
>>111851944
I think I'm going to need a source, to confirm your translation, of course.
>>
>>111851944
basically correct

what is the cause of your doubt

>>111852109
>femdom
not even once
>>
>>111852180
Isn't there missed meaning from the ???'s passive conjugation?
>>
>>111852180

>He doesn't like femdom!
>He doesn't like seeing a woman tie up a man's cock so tight that he can't cum!
>He doesn't like seeing a woman plant her big, sweaty ass on a man's face and nearly suffocate him!
>He doesn't like seeing a woman tie up and whip the shit out of a man!
>These things don't make him harder than a fucking diamond and send him into a fapping frenzy like nothing else!

That's alright, we've all got our different kinks.
>>
>>111852246
>Isn't there missed meaning
not especially

exact translation, if even possible in the first place, is wasted energy

sure passive ("raped by") might be better than present progressive ("is raping") if you want to go "ohh lookit i know what ??? means"

but who cares

>>111852447
I vomited when I saw your memecarrots
then I read them and vomited again
not even once
>>
>>111852768

>memecarrots

What? Quoting is a meme now?
>>
>>111852768
I honestly have difficulty trusting your advice when you say stuff like "I vomited when I saw your memecarrots" and full comprehension of vocabulary. You remind me of Namasensei in a way.
>>
>>111852768
I've re-looked at the sentence and this is my analysis.

If you interpret ??? "actively" then you get "you are raping a girl you just met" instead of the correct passive "being raped by a girl you just met". Right?
>>
>>111853476
Did you mix up your quotes?
>>
>>111852914
???????????????????????????????????????????????????

>>111853047
>If you interpret ??? "actively"
I think you actually understand what passive form means, but strange little thoughts like these disturb me

please stop
>>
>>111831892
2200 hours to speak fluent
>>
>>111853571
???????????????????????????????
>>
>>111853802
[citation needed]
>>
>>111853802
>>111854220
Not that guy but
http://voxy.com/blog/index.php/2011/03/hardest-languages-infographic/

I'm guessing it's "2200" of dedicated hours though. I'd bet it's still not enough
>>
>>111854695
>three writing systems and two syllabries add to the difficulty
They consider romaji it's own writing system that somehow adds to the difficulty. Kana too. Those are literally the easiest part of Japanese. Kanji isn't "hard" either, it's just a lot of work/time to recognize them.
>>
Until you are the one who is wearing the red pajamas then you know NOTHING
>>
>>111854695
At a normal study rate of 8 hours a day, 2200 hours is only a few days over 9 months.
>>
>>111854956
>normal study rate
For NEETs perhaps.
>>
>>111854850
2200 hours is still on the low side. It's just that most of the time you'll be having fun reading.
>>
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I just saw a single text bubble that consisted of this in a hentai post-fuck. Is this supposed to be a breathing sound or what? The only other text bubble in the panel was a ?? so that's what led me to think that ? was just a breathing/wheezing sound.
>>
>>111855074
I know it takes a long time. That chart is just awful though.
>>
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Damn, nothing that I do seems to get this to work. I've been trying to fix it for over a day and I still get this missing subject for `' error in the grammar part of JGlossator.

I've tried to add in everything from extremely simple sentences to more complex ones and it's the same error every time.

Does anyone know how I can fix this?
>>
>>111855007
I agree, 8/day is simply not normal
>>
>>111855552
If you're not working then it's really not that much at all. It's actually a bit on the low side for someone who isn't working.

There's 16 waking hours in the average day, so that leaves you with an entire half of the day to do whatever you want. I would feel like I was slacking if I only let myself study for 8 hours. The average school day or work day is roughly as long, you're just replacing 8 hours of studying at school or working with 8 hours of studying Japanese.
>>
>>111855085

One more question.

??????????????????????

This shows up during the next sex scene (which happens to be the last). It's something about the boy being a pervert and fucking the girl but I was hoping someone would help me get a more exact translation.
>>
Anyone use the nihonshock cheat sheets? They worth using?
>>
>>111855749
I have them and there's a lot of useful information on it, especially on the Spoken Japanese, Advanced Grammar, and Beyond Vocabulary cards, but I don't like how crammed the information is. Makes it difficult to reference quickly. I've been meaning to get around to typing out all of this stuff so I could reference it easier.
>>
>>111855868
Yah I wish there were anki cards made from them. Seems like such a pain having to go and type each one out on a card.
>>
>>111854695
2200 classroom hours. Those numbers come from the FSI, and when people take those courses they have hours of homework every night after the classes. So the actual number is probably 1.5-2x that.
>>
>>111855670
The average high school day is 6 hours, and the average college day for me was ~3. I'm a NEET who has never had a job, so doing something for 8 hours a day sounds impossible to me.
>>
>>111856331
You get used to it pretty quick, and it helps if you have stimulants. I used to do nothing but sit around and play video games or jerk off. I was able to do that for 7 years because I was homeschooled, now I study between 8 to 13 hours a day.
>>
Why did japanese suddenly become so much harder?

Is the fishing chapter in Yotsuba particicularly difficult in comparison to the rest? Either it is or there's something wrong with me lately.
>>
>>111856469
Not the other anon but how do you concentrate for so long? Do you just force yourself even if it's at snails pace? What kind of sleep schedule do you have?
>>
>>111856469
So now you just do both at the same time, and in Japanese instead.
>>
>????…?????????????

Can someone help me with this? ??????? confuses me. The only thing I can think of is (rough translation) "As I thought... It's in accordance with my thoughts..." So basically, "As I thought, it's as I expected" but those are essentially the same thing. If it helps, that line is followed with: ??????????????…
>>
>>111857025
>"As I thought, it's as I expected"

That's what it is. Things are a little redundant sometimes.
>>
>>111856785
I just keep the activities varied. It was a lot harder back when I was first started and my studying possibilities were basically just limited to reviewing the kana, basic grammar on Tae Kim, and some basic vocab reps. Doing that for 8 hours was tough, but as long as I kept juggling between the three activities, occassionally throw in some listening practice by watching a raw episode of something if it got really bad, then I could always get at least 8 to 10 hours. It also helps to have a timer so that you can keep track of exactly how long you've been studying.

Now that I'm mostly reading though, it's not very difficult at all. Play a game that I'm interested and look up vocab and reference grammar as needed, if I start to feel like I'm burning out then I switch to a VN that I'm interested in, after that maybe some manga, then sprinkle in a little listening practice here and there and before you know it 13 hours have gone by.

The trick is to always switch to something else if you feel yourself getting too burned out from a particular activity. It's like juggling. As long as you keep switching then you can keep going until you're eventually too tired to stay awake since it doesn't really feel like you've been doing the same thing for 8+ hours, as much as it feels like you've been doing a whole bunch of different things over the course of 8+ hours.
>>
>>111857142

Well I guess. I know people who say "Small little" so I guess it is to be expected.
>>
>>111857175
Oh, forgot to answer the part about the sleep schedule. It's free-running sleep, I guess. I sleep when I'm tired, I wake up when I wake up. Some days I'm awake during the days and other days I'm awake at night. No real pattern to it.
>>
>>111857197
You can phrase it in such a way that it feels more normal. "As expected, things turned out the way I thought." In Japanese it sounds normal enough to me.
>>
>>111855677
"Well you sure turned out to be the kind of perverted boy who would thrust into my pussy~" or something equivalent.

??? (or the past tense in general) is often used not to refer to the literal past, but to signal an inference or realization.
>>
>>111857175
>>111857275
So you look up/learn vocab as you see them? I do writing as well so I have to right everything I don't know down to study. Though the problem for me is if I go through to much content I end up having numerous pages to go through and that kills my motivation. The other part would be if I'm low on sleep I cannot concentrate for shit so even if I try to study I end up absorbing nothing and give up.
>>
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>>111857197
I wouldn't think too hard about it. It's easy to let the strict dictionary definitions of words translate the sentence for you in your head, but language is more malleable than that.
>>
????????
This might be "Look! From here..." or something, the nextsentence may help but I'm having trouble with part of it.

???????????…??????????????????????????…

??????????? is "Wrapped in the scent of a woman's juices..." or something. It's the next part that confuses me. The rest is something about masturbating a perverted boy's phimosis dick (that's actually what she's doing, whacking him off) and something about his male scent but I'm having trouble clearing it up. Can I get some help with the rest of that sentence?
>>
Can someone help me out with this line from Clannad?

???????????????????????????????????????????

I am pretty lost, but I think it is something along the lines of "The teachers drew back into the staff room frightened, while she alone fought back." The translation in the english patch doesn't seem to make much sense either, so could someone break it down for me?
>>
>>111857577
>So you look up/learn vocab as you see them?
Yeah, I just let it absorb naturally for the most part. I use rikai to import the words to anki though, that way if I run into a word a second time and I don't recognize it then I'll know that I've seen it before when the import error pops up. I'll sometimes review these words if I feel like it, but overall, I don't put a big focus on memorizing vocab. I used to, but that was before I was doing much outside of anki and the only words I knew came from Core. In my experience, most of these words that I run into while reading eventually were retained through exposure and the ones that aren't only take a second to look up with rikaisama. Grammar and reading exposure in general is my main priority at the moment. Grammar by far gives me the most trouble right now and vocab look-up software has become so convenient that I don't even find it irritating, so I didn't really see too much of a need to invest a lot of time in vocab retention until I've gotten past the point where 90% of the time the problems I have are always related to grammar.

>Though the problem for me is if I go through to much content I end up having numerous pages to go through and that kills my motivation.
That's one of the main reasons why I stopped using anki to the extent that I used to and if I was writing then I'd imagine it would be even harder. I would just dread reading if I had to regularly review all of the new words that I run into from the average day of reading. As long as reading feels enjoyable though and it doesn't feel like you're just gathering up the words that will be used for torturing you tomorrow, then it's easy to do it non-stop for an indefinite amount of time, and I think that ability to be exposed to the language for really long periods of time without feeling burned out outweighs the negatives of not reviewing these words as thoroughly.
>>
>>111858874
Is this the only guy who does reading only?

He's the only guy who posts about it./
>>
>>111859140
This guy only reads and listens. He's fluent in 10+ languages.
>>
>>111859140
I think a lot of people here do it, I know that Steve will only do reading and listening for months before he starts to try to talk to people. I think it's that I'm just the only person here who seems to post long-winded stimulant fueled walls of text about it, so it sticks out.
>>
>>111859448
Oh, if I was on amphetamines I'd probably just read too. It took me hours just to read up to when they first got to class in hanahira, so I don't think I read fast enough to get enough review.
>>
>>111859322
>This guy only reads and listens
He learned Kanji with flash cards until he got to a level where he could read accompanied by a dictionary.
>>
>>111860459
That was like 40 years ago though. If he had current technology when he started, he wouldn't have used flashcards.
>>
>>111858475
>????
Male student:

>?????????????????
The teachers who don't come out of the staff room because they're scared

>?????????????????????
Leaving aside the teachers who...
Never mind the teachers who...
Forget about the teachers who...

>???????????????
Let's face it on our own.
I'll face it on my own.
We'll face it on our own.
>>
>>111860760
No, he'd have used anki.
>>
I read the /int/ sticky
I've spent about 1hour today learning hiragana. Keeping track of my progress
At least one hour a day

When I hit one thousand hours hopefully I'll be able to play Japan only games

I want to try guys. Please stay with me on my journey
>>
>>111860926
You sound like a faggot. This isn't your hugbox.

Also, you can't learn Japanese.
>>
>>111860926
No, come back when you know the basics.
>>
>>111861018
I guess I'm used to being on /fit/
Were all gonna make it on there
I'm already in shape now time to learn Japanese.
You're going to do good in all your endeavors bro, I believe in you
>>
>>111860829
thanks a lot, though I am still a bit confused on how ?? works as a verb. Is it slang for or some grammar I forgot?
>>
>>111861018
What does that meme mean you can't learn Japanese?
>>
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>reading Harry Potter
>can read pretty good
>only have to look up words once in a while
>have to read for 3 hours to get my 50 new words for the day
>usually only like 1 new kanji a day

>start reading albatross to see how hard it is
>looking up multiple words per sentence
>1 hour later already have 50 words to add
>including 7 new kanji
>>
>>111861121
This A?B?, with no verb, is not so irregular a construction. I don't think you'll find it on most grammar books though. I'm pretty sure Tae Kim doesn't have it at least.
>>
>>111861293
It means you can't learn Japanese.
>>
Why does namasensai write differently then the letter he is teaching?
>>
Can someone figure out the first Kanji in the quote here? It's blurry as fuck and I didn't find it on jisho when I searched with the ? radical.

I know that she is talking about the place that they are currently in, which was localized as "Aureole" but that didn't help me much.
>>
>>111861814
?
>>
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>>111861436
>>
>>111862003
>?
Thanks anon, that makes an awful lot of sense while also making me hate the games blurry font and my inability to simply guess it even more.
>>
>>111852768
>memecarrots
???
>>
>>111861357

You are dumb as hell for trying to read that so early on. Mareni is about as close to a proper novelist as you can get in the eroge industry and it's a shame you're going to ruin his works crawling through them like that. If you're going to mine words do it in something a lot easier like Grisaia that still has a high vocabulary level. You might even be able to actually understand it as opposed to looking up a a billion words.
>>
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q14121453044

Funny how even Japanese don't bother to learn kanji. Everyone knows the word ??????? but not which kanji is which.
>>
>>111862956
It feels like I'm reading poetry, and it feels like there was a lot of effort put into writing it, so I'm putting in a lot of effort in return. I'm not just skimming through it or anything, I'm deciphering every sentence slowly to make sure I understand it fully. I'm having fun and the decrypting of each line adds to the feeling of adventure and I think immerses me even more in the setting, although I don't really know what it's going to be like later on since I only just started.
>>
>>111863079
>2014
>not knowing how to write ???? from memory
>calling yourself Japanese
>>
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>>111863134

Well good luck man, but I really doubt you'll be able to keep that up for the entire work. If you do then my hats off to you but Albatross is a pretty difficult read. It is absurdly long winded and very wordy all the way through, it doesn't really let up at any point. It gave me a shitload of difficulty and I only recently read it myself.

If you're looking for more stuff with kanji and vocabulary you don't see everyday then check out Masada's stuff whenever you feel like it. http://vndb.org/v12455 is a hell of a ride.
>>
It's been a while, tell me about your goal work(s) anon.
>>
>>111863227
oh god, it hurts my eyes to try and tell them apart
how do do it
>>
>>111863470
>That picture
That's not even Japanese.
>>
>>111831524
OP forgot to put the subject for this thread. I didn't realize there was a thread up.
>>
>>111863980
It is, just very old one.
>>
>>111863980

KKK has some crazy shit in it.

http://youtu.be/XscCXeArTlw

The Sanskrit chants should start around 1:00.
>>
>>111864035
What a dope
>>
>>111863470
Maybe I won't last, but going in with an attitude that you need to finish everything you start, while appealing, I think is counter-productive to learning. I'm having fun now, and I'll keep reading until I stop having fun. There have been so many times when I approach something with that attitude and it usually never works out or it burns me out. The times when I've had the most fun and made the most progress is when I approach things with an "I don't really care that much" sort of attitude.
>>
>>111863980
It's just a passage from ???. Japanese learn it in elementary school during history lessons.
>>
>>111864643
What the fuck am I watching
>>
>>111864643
Are people meant to understand this?
>>
Alright, I'm a bit confused here. I recently started to learn Japanese. I've gotten the kana down really fast and easy (as expected). Problem is the transition from easy to learn kana into kanji is too different in terms of difficulty.

I watched all of Tae Kim's videos and I felt the speed at which he drops out new vocabulary is too fast without any explanation of it. He even suggests not memorizing kanji and to just learn the grammar with it (or something along those lines). Doesn't that go against the use of anki?

Also, I'm new to anki but is it literally just "memorize x number of kanji every day"? Kana was super easy because of the simplicity as well as the fact you can relate it with an image or something like that. I think the deck I installed was Core10k (which reading a post above I think said was 6k-10k) so that might have been a bad idea. But am I really just memorizing kanji? I don't get where I'm supposed to start after the kana because it's too vague (things say to learn vocab and grammar at the same time).

tl;dr: I need direction.
>>
>>111865037
>>111865078
>they can't read Classic Japanese written in Kanbun

Fucking plebs.
>>
>>111865169
Yeah, it still takes me a while
I really ought to git gud
>>
>>111864907

Yeah and that's a fine attitude to take. I did the same thing as a matter of fact, that's not really the issue though.

My point was taking that attitude with highly acclaimed, notoriously difficult titles is a good way to ruin legitimately good stuff by dropping it halfway through due to frustration and lack of knowledge. I'm speaking from experience, but you really don't have to believe me. If you really do learn that way and you're ok with the possible consequences then by all means carry on. I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope you make it through.
>>
>>111865129
If Kanji feel overwhelming, try RTK, at least for a while.
>>
I've just discovered this add-on (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1627628203), and omfg I fucking like it, I'm currently using it now just for auto-generating furigana though (from sentences I've mined on http://www.linguee.com/), I'm still not using its full capabilities because:
-Does anybody here know of a deck with cloze support? (or any deck for that matter where I can easily use this plugin) I'm currently using the JapanesecorePLUS deck, and it has a different note type.

Or maybe this is a better question; Does anybody here know of a deck that actually used this add-on? It seems unlikely that there's none, it's quite a powerful add-on I must say.
>>
>>111865529
Even so, there are endless works of literature that have just as much if not more effort put into them as Albatross.
>>
>>111865544
I assume RTK is Remembering The Kana? I don't have any problems with kana at all. How would that help me with kanji? And I have read the RTK pdf as well as watched a video series of it.
>>
>>111865813
RTK = Remembering the Kanji.
>>
>>111865813
No, Remembering the Kanji. It's pretty shitty but it's a good starter.
>>
>>111865897
>>111865904
Oh, my bad. I looked through the guide and pastebin but didn't find that. Guess I'll have to look online for it elsewhere. Thanks for the suggestion.

Also for confirmation, is kanji just about memorizing a lot of it basically? If so, I may have to work at it slower so that I won't forget a lot of it.
>>
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>>111865129
Don't be too overwhelmed, Kanji is actually easy if you study its components called "radicals" (the building blocks of Kanji).
I'm saying this because I'm currently studying Kanji at a faster rate than I learned the kana, why? Because all Kanji basically have the same "components", and sometimes the components are even the kana themselves because kana were basically derived from Kanji.

You might want to try the KanjiDamage way (there's also a KD deck in Anki). If you find it hard to memorize Kanji with a lot of readings, be picky with only the "most" important ones, although as for myself I create my own mnemonics to glue all of the readings together.
I'm currently learning around 15/day.

Read up his explananations, don't take everything seriously though because some of his explanations are downright wrong.
http://kanjidamage.com/introduction
http://kanjidamage.com/kanji_facts
>>
>>111866001
Yeah, the worst thing is overdoing it so that your retention tanks.

Get a vocab deck and go very slowly at first. Then progressively faster as you get more used to Kanji. RTK will help you make sense of them and learn the underlying principles, but is not a great method in the long run.
>>
>>111866095
Oh, and learn vocab in parallel with learning Kanji
>>
>>111866001
Yeah it's scientifically proven that after 10 years old it's almost impossible to learn a new language. If you're using RTK remember to go really slow, if you forget even one you're going way to fast. You need to get everything perfect before you move on. Have fun.
>>
>>111866123
>Yeah, the worst thing is overdoing it so that your retention tanks.
This is what normalfags actually think.
>>
>>111866134
And btw, even if you don't go with the KD method, I would still suggest that you download the KD deck because the mnemonics are quite useful.
What I did was I re-ordered the entire KD deck in the order of the "Tuttle" Kanji book (which strikes a good balance between Radicals and usefulness), and I added all of KD's missing Joyou Kanji.
>>
>>111866095
I was looking at KanjiDamage just a second ago and it seems like a good starting point.
>>111866123
Which deck would you recommend?
>>111866134
So while using KanjiDamage, I should look up the meaning of everything at the same time?
>>
>>111866196
Where you going at the same pace now as when you didn't know a single Kanji? Are you insane? You clearly don't remember how confusing this was when starting out.

>>111866243
I use Core10k Optimized.
>>
>>111866243
>So while using KanjiDamage, I should look up the meaning of everything at the same time?

No use, a vocab deck (I would suggest japcorePLUS), suspend the entire deck, and unsuspend vocab wherein you know the Kanji.

Mark (using Anki's mark system) every vocab that you have un-suspended, re-position them in order (using Anki's repisition command), and you're good to go.

Use these search syntaxes when un-suspending cards:

"deck:Japanese corePLUS" expression:*?* -tag:marked

"deck:Japanese corePLUS" expression:*?* -tag:marked -is:suspended

I see that you're still new to Anki, read up on the doc, and when you read up the "search syntax" of anki you'll understand why you'll need both of those syntaxes when suspending and un-suspending cards.
Copy-paste the syntax somewhere before this is 404d.
>>
>>111866382
>I see that you're still new to Anki
Yeah, that sure looked like a handful. Is it especially necessary to learn how to use anki like that or can I go without having to fiddle with it much?
>>
>>111866382
There is literally no point in re-positioning them if all the other cards are suspended anyway. Useless step. All you need to do is unsuspend.
>>
>>111866451
I would suggest that you really study Anki, learning Jap is gonna take about 3 years so you might as well sharpen your tools before delving into a complicated language such as Jap.
It would dramatically reduce your study time believe me, especially if you know how to tweak anki to fit your needs.

There're a lot of add-ons for Anki btw, you might want to check this page out (https://ankiweb.net/shared/addons/).

In particilar I'm using:
-Replay buttons on card
-Cloze Furigana Tools
-Japanese Support
-Kanji Grid

Btw, if you use the "Jap core plus deck", change the HTML coding of the second card template to reverse the Front and Back part of that card.
Specifically, the first card should be "JAP-eng" (it's the first card), the second card is buggy, but it's easy enough to change it to "ENG-JAP".
And if you become quite proficient in anki, you might want to add a third card called "Audio" recognition. (you listen to the card, then you try to recall its meaning).
>>
>>111866545
They're not suspended.
Anyway, I don't get what you're trying to say.
I was giving him instructions on how to learn vocab "in parallel" with Kanji that you ALREADY know. The crucial part here is that he knows the Kanji, he can't be learning the deck in the default order when you download it because, first of all it starts with KANA vocab and the order in which the deck is arranged is surely not the same as the order he'll study it.
>>
>>111866748
>No use, a vocab deck (I would suggest japcorePLUS), suspend the entire deck, and unsuspend vocab wherein you know the Kanji.
Assuming you do this, what is the point of repositioning the cards? The vocab with unknown kanji will be suspended so it will be irrelevant.
>>
>>111866817
Actually I misunderstood your first post.

But honestly I think if it's still studied in the same order rather than in a haphazard manner, i.e., learning Vocab containing similar Kanji next to each other, I think it makes for better retention don't you think? Since they're bound to have similar meanings.
>>
>>111866908
I think *it's better* if it's still studied
I missed the *it's better*
>>
>>111866908
I don't think it matters. I don't even agree with your post, learning kanji is useless, I was just commenting on a useless step.
>>
I was told some very useful information that has helped my comprehension. It's probably in Tae Kim but I didn't quite get it until now.

>The verb at the end usually dictates tense and other stuff, for example, in X??Y???, the ??-want extends to X and Y.
>>
>>111869415
>in X??Y???, the ??-want extends to X and Y.
Not always, though
>>
>>111869632
That's why I said usually. You'll rarely encounter an "always" in Japanese.
>>
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>tfw i've been studying for 4-5 days and am already spotting blatant mistranslations in my chinese cartoons

I always knew they were suspect but this is ridiculous. I've been getting shafted for the last decade.
>>
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>?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

How do I get used to clauses? I'm trying everything I can think of it and it still confuses the hell out of me and doesn't seem to be improving at all. I can't keep it all straight in my head when I try to read a sentence like this.

Are these the clauses if you divide it up?
>??????????????
>?????????????
>?????????
>???????????

It's so frustrating to see so many verbs that aren't really verbs because they all just dogpile onto that word at the end of the clause.
>>
>>111870052
You may be mistaking localization / embellishment for mistranslated. Don't get so arrogant, sub translators, at least, are fairly experienced and would't make a legitimate stake a 5-day beginner could spot.
>>
What should I read DJT?

I trust your recommendations
>>
>>111870122
What you want to, while keeping in mind it may be best not to choose an exceptionally difficult work. Ika Musume is a universally beloved, simple manga.
>>
>>111870122
Try France Shoujo, it's beginner tier with easy grammar and vocab.
>>
>>111870154
>>111870176
Oh, I wasn't looking for easy. I was just looking for ideas. Was half expecting to get the Boku no Pico VN equivalent, if such a thing exists
>>
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>>111870120
>sub translators, at least, are fairly experienced and would't make a legitimate stake a 5-day beginner could spot

Is this guy serious?
>>
>>111870105
>verbs that aren't really verbs
What, do you mean like the "??" in ????????
>>
>>111870208
I see nothing wrong with what he says. While you can get bad translators, 5 days of study is not going to tell you much
>>
>>111870052
Give a single example please.
>>
>>111870208
Yes. I didn't mean to type stake instead of mistake, but I'm seriously. Any "error" you find is likely a deliberate choice. Do you think groups other than Hadena hire translators straight from DJT?
>>
>>111870235
He said he's been watching anime for a decade, he probably put together a lot of pieces in those 5 days.

>>111870267
>incoming hadena screencap
>>
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>>111870278
>but I'm seriously.
>>
>>111870228
I guess so, I'm not really sure what the word for it is. If it's something small like that then I can understand it, but when it's a dozen words all modifying a single noun then I'm lost. I don't know how to mentally keep all of that information in my head and still read in a linear way if I'm going to have to do a backflip to the beginning of this chain as soon as I hit the noun and figure out how to rearrange all those words in my mind so that they're modifying the noun.
>>
>>111870335
When you begin an advanced nihongo user like me, your English degrades. Your laughter only boosts my ego.
>>
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>day 5 of learning
>think something is a mistake
>get really excited because I think I'm so good
>post about on DJT
>realize months later that actually I got it wrong and it was translated correctly
>feel ashamed and slowly stop giving my useless opinion as much
>eventually get good and only come to DJT laugh at the blind leading the blind

Does this seem about right?
>>
>>111870337
Maybe you shouldn't try to rearrange them? I'm not especially good but I'm sure the nips don't do that. Maybe it's just something you get used to. There's no real reason "The running dog got wet" is superior to "Got wet the running dog" or whatever.
>>
>>111870394
There is no reason why you would screw up your grammar due to forgetting a language, only lose some vocabulary.
>>
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>>111870438
>There is no reason why you would screw up your grammar due to forgetting a language
>>
I feel like shit lying in bed at night thinking of the words I saw earlier and realizing I forgot many of them.
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>>111870424
You tell me, it's your story
>>
a language you are fluent at*, yes.
>>
>>111865798
Any programmer here?
It's seems I've found what I was looking for, but I'd like to take it a step further.

I've found this deck (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/90973261), it seems he took the liberty of running the code through a script he made on the deck. I have no idea how to do this though?
Any help DJT?
>>
>>111870477
Only the last line was my story.
>>
>>111870482
Spend some time with something as ass-backwards as Japanese and then we'll talk.
>>
>>111870523
I have, maybe I'm just not retarded enough to forget how to speak a language I use every day?
>>
>>111870541
... Why would you ever use English?
>>
>>111870434
Those aren't even the same sentences though, the meanings are different in the same way that ????? and ?????? are different.
>>
>>111870105
>>111870337
What do you mean verbs that aren't verbs? Just because it's not the main action, it can modify a noun and it's a proper verb.

Random example in English:
>A chilling breeze is blowing through the room.
Guess what, there are two verbs in this one. Is chilling not a proper verb here?
>>
>>111870563
Not sure. Why are you using it right now?
>>
>>111870424
People who are "good" don't come to DJT for any reason. These threads are full of the most arrogant weeb faggots around.
>>
Any way I can make the hyperlink not underlined?
>>
>>111870626
Why is there a random </font>?
>>
>>111870563
English is the language of prosperity whereas Japanese is the language of a dying nation overwrought with degeneracy and old people.

You weeaboos are such deluded fuckers.
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>>111870650
Didn't see that. Butchered another deck's layout.

>>111870682
go away
>>
>>111870626
Try putting this line into the "styling" section (should be a textbox under the image that you just linked:

text-decoration: none;
>>
>>111870682
At least when the Chinese take over we'll be closer to learning it while the Americans cry over the weird symbols that they're too stupid to read.

If cultural significance was no issue, I'd learn Russian or Arabic. They are prettier.
>>
>>111870754
Didn't do anything.
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>>111870809
Does the styling part have another line with "text-decoration" written in it anywhere? Especially if it's enclosed in an "a{ }" tag. That could be overriding it.
>>
>>111870768
Anikitip: The Chinese are learning English, not the other way around.

Knowing English is one of the most valuable skills out there.
>>
>>111870907
No, just got the standard stuff.
>>
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I'm using the "Japanese support" plugin with the stroke order font.
I think it's only in this deck that this happens; why is the stroke order overlapping with the sentence?
How do i fix that?
>>
>>111871189
Edit the card style and put in a few line breaks. It's html.
>>
>>111870573
>What do you mean verbs that aren't verbs? Just because it's not the main action, it can modify a noun and it's a proper verb.
>A chilling breeze is blowing through the room.

Honestly, my technical understanding of English grammar is terrible and I didn't even know that chilling was a verb. I don't know the part of speech for most English words, I just have a feeling for them and it's usually right. Almost everything I know about English came from it being my native language.

In my mind, there's words that describe things, words that are things, and words that do an action, and that's the extent of it. So in that sentence, I see chilling as a describing word that modifies breeze, which would fall into the "a thing" category. Blowing would be an action word though because the breeze is doing the action of blowing.
>>
>>111871218
Technically it's an adjective, but it comes from the "to chill" verb. I bent the rules a bit to show that other languages have the same stuff.
>>
>>111871213
The stroke orders aren't part of the template, they're being injected by the plug-in through the font.
I tried adding <br>'s it didn't move em.
>>
>>111870626
>/details/{{{vocab}}}

God, i have no idea that was even possible. Thank you based anon.

Why three brackets though? Why not 2?
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>>111871403
I'm just dumb.
>>
>>111871246
Well, for example, chilled is both a past-tense verb and an adjective. A chilled cat is "a cat that has been chilled" whether you interpret it as a verb or an adjective, I think.
>>
>>111871455
You mean it really should be 2 right?
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>>111871003
Got some news for you, kid. The world doesn't stop moving for you.
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>>111871481
Yes
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>>111871246
You don't need to bend rules
>A breeze that chills blows through the room
>>
>>111831928
>TDoJG
Something something of Japanese grammar?
>>
>>111871673
The Dictionary of (Basic/Intermediate/Advanced) Japanese Grammar. It's great, except "Basic" uses romaji.
>>
>>111871673
And 17 hours later, I just happened to be looking at the thread again, how about that.

The Dictionary of Japanese Grammar, which has Basic, Intermediate and Advanced volumes. It's in the pastebin, as I recall.
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>>111871246
>I bent the rules a bit to show that other languages have the same stuff.
I think I could begin to understand other languages if I just stopped thinking about the rules, but I assumed that would be a bad idea.

Is it possible for someone learning a second language to just say, "To hell with the rules" and still get good results? I know that's what I did with English, but I figured it was different because this isn't my native language. I'm checking the part of speech for every word, googling to see what it means when a particle goes with a certain part of speech, etc, but I don't even know this shit in English and it just makes my head hurt.

Is it possible to get good results from just reading as much as you can, context guessing when needed, listening as much as you can, and trying to develop a feeling for it? These rules have got me tied up so tightly that I can't see Japanese as anything other than this rigid and robotic set of rules, which all happen to reference English rules that I barely understand in the first place.
>>
>>111871696
>>111871706
Thank you.
>>
>>111871730
English is my second language. I learned it in elementary school, formally learning the names of conjugations like past perfect and so on. It didn't help much, and I could barely use it outside the classroom. The best teacher I had was the internet and video games, that's what actually taught me all the practical knowledge.
I wouldn't worry about the rules so much. Of course, you need to know how to put a verb into te-form so you can recognize it, and having a good grasp conjugations is important, but it's more important to get a feel for the language. Once you get used to it a bit, you'll start to naturally see where each word goes and which nouns they modify and so on.
>>
>>111871696
How have you been using it when you study? I downloaded it awhile ago, but I'm not sure how to get any practical use out of it. The index seems to just be a shitload of little words and particles but nothing about whole grammar concepts.
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>>111871963
I've been trying to but the romaji has been too distracting. I've been using Tae Kim and I'm trying out Imabi. To be clear, my grammar is shit.
>>
>>111871963
Read, encounter unknown particle/special word, look it up on the index and read and study the entry.

Remember, it's a dictionary, so just like you don't learn vocab by reading a dictionary straight through, you don't learn grammar by reading all of TDoJG. Use it as a reference. If you don't know anything, then I think skimming Tae Kim for the basics is ok, but consult TDoJG if anything is unclear.
>>
???????????????????????????????????
>>
>>111872257
????????????
>>
How can I tell which reading is more common? For words, I could just google them and look at the number of hits, but I have no idea how to look up readings.
For example, a word list told me that ?? is read as ????, but then I saw it pronounced in visual novels as ????. Should I just learn both?
>>
>clover day's
>30-50 hours
I better be ???? when I finish this game, nice game though, would recommend to beginners, at first the inner monologues can be a bit difficult but it'll get easier.
>>
>>111872389
learn both, but don't worry about it too much.
>>
Does reading easier things prepare you for harder things or will you eventually have to bite the pillow and let Japanese go in raw so you might as well get it over with early on?

It's comfortable to read yotsuba and manga like that, but do you learn anything if you're reading something that's comfortable and will reading enough easy shit have a cumulative effect that will make it easier to read harder things? I try to read VNs but they beat the shit out of me within the first few sentences, the sentences are much longer and more complex than anything I'm used to.
>>
>>111872669
Even "easier" things will make you bite the pillow. Excluding Yotsuba, maybe, I haven't read it.
>>
>>111872669
As with everything, you have to read things slightly above your level. If you read things you're comfortable with, you will learn little (though you might develop practice to read faster, perhaps). If you go too advance you won't be able to understand anything and will become unmotivated, so you have to strike a balance. If you go with something slightly above your level it's easier because then you can focus on the specific things you don't understand, and develop them using context, which you wouldn't have if you weren't understanding anything at all.
>>
>>111871730
>and still get good results?
Being able to read without a dictionary? Sure.
Being able to watch anime without subs? Sure.
Passing the N1? Sure.

Posting on Futaba without the Japs accusing you of being Korean? Probably not.
>>
>>111872669
Quantity > Quality
Doesn't matter if you can only kind of understand it or if entire lines of dialog are beyond you. Burn a path of shit through Japanese. Spray everything with shit. Butcher entire VNs, it doesn't matter how terrible your comprehension was as long as you are constantly spraying this language. You might hack it apart and ruin the original meaning of the story, but each VN will teach you many new things.

Eventually you will be able to look back at the ocean of VNs that you shit your way through and tossed aside like cum stained issues, and their sacrifices will be what built up your Japanese.

How well you read is no where near as important as how much you have read.
>>
>>111873061
>Posting on Futaba without the Japs accusing you of being Korean? Probably not.
If you can evade the bans then wouldn't your Japanese improve as you adapt a little more each time and try to sound less Korean? I know that my spelling was terrible when I first came to 4chan over 7 years ago, but being continuously ridiculed improved my spelling and grammar more than school ever did. Hell, teachers should just bully their students if they want them to get good grades.
>>
>>111873109
>Burn a path of shit through Japanese. Spray everything with shit. Butcher entire VNs, it doesn't matter how terrible your comprehension was as long as you are constantly spraying this language. You might hack it apart and ruin the original meaning of the story, but each VN will teach you many new things.
Just note, don't translate stuff for people while doing this.
>>
>>111873626
Well, I mean, when you read stuff you have to translate it.
>>