Occultism & Magick: Library Update 54

>>19033941
Bump

>>19034128
Village dog dgaf about your ramblings

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>>19034134
:3

>>19034138
Here's a quarter, call someone who cares.

So, let's talk about discriminatory magic, shall we?

Hey folks! Is there any way to immunize a certain person to hot foot powder before liberally sprinkling it around my house?

>>19034128
Killed a few?

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>>19034178
Have them sprinkle it with you with the same intention.
Make sure they aware of the Why of the arrangement - as far as why the sprinkling needs to happen and make sure they are in agreement with you on the gameplan.
Shared intent and action should be enough.
This is assuming that they share the household in some way with you.

>>19034169
Why not.

>>19034214
the alternative is to charm and/or dress your shoes, or to pepper/salt the insides, powder versus powder keeps you safe from foot track magic. There's more complicated ways but those are the quick and dirty ways.

>>19034214
>>19034240
Thankya, both. Yeah this person resides with me like, 60% of the time or more.

>>19034273
I can't think of anything clever.

>>19034310
Hehehe I was waiting...

>>19034310
"Hang one at the end of the driveway"
I'm not anti-Bolshevik, by the way. Neutral, in fact.

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>>19034128
Human body parts should always be returned to their owners asap, or if the owner is unknown then to the nearest graveyard. Such things give off bad vibes and that kind of dark radiation will consume one's spirit. It might take anything from one more month to a year, but sooner or later that "anxiety" which is growing in your mind will go sour.

>>19034382
>trying to impose personal beliefs and praxes on centuries worth of another tradition with different praxes

Never change, Christpostchan

>>19034388
This is the dark side of Santería we are talking about.

>>19034438
and?

>>19034456
You should never dabble in black magic.

>>19034459
>WE WUZ PURITANS
>AN SHEIT

>>19034459
says who?

>>19034469
To each their own, but at least you've been warned.

>>19034477
>warned
Sharing an opinion isn't a warning, its a just an opinion. What is your personal justification for this opinion?

Hey what's a good spell for neighbor?
William Burroughs posited that "n-a-b-o-r" was a sensible reduction, much in the way of through as "t-h-r-u"?

>>19034490
~t. Avid Violator of Tunis Comment

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>>19034459
>>19034477
>half arsed ominous bullshit scaremongering

>>19034459
What is 'black magic' for some is not so black for others.

>>19034577
no less less valid than any other translation, I think this one is more fun to read.

>>19034572
This.

I see them as different praxes - everything is not so black/white.

>>19034610
>No less valid
This may be true in a practical sense, but I don't see any Shakespeare being inspired by this particular edition. More like Toni Morrison

>>19034644
>Neva was lidat, wit Michael, da main angel guy. He was fighting wit da Devil bout da body afta Moses wen mahke, but he no dare poin finga da Devil an talk bad to him. He ony tell da Devil, “I like da Boss tell you, ‘No good wat you doing!’

I found a moth today. Poor thing must have burned to death under the cruel Michoacan sun. But there is certainly life after death, and I'm sure the transformative virtues of the powdered bug will serve me well.

>>19034678
Crush & Insufflate for best results ;-)

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>>19034214
>>19033419
Can you make me a job sigil? I'll pay for the shipping senpai

Hey all, so I was wondering if anyone had read Initiation into Hermetics? Found a copy of it and decided to give it a read, but as I'm not up much on the hermetical side of life, I was wondering if anyone with more experience had anything positive or negative to say about it?

>>19035064
Well, since you wanted opinions, you could as well call it Initiation Into Mysticism. His second book (PME) will develop purely magical skills, and faster.

Anyway, even though the steps of IIH can be strenuous and some exercises can get hairy (like for example when he has you pressurize the elements into your inner organs), it's a solid curriculum and it can be done approximately in a year - so no need to spend "ten years" on it to get good no matter what those who practice IIH claim. Why not give it a go?

>>19034273

t. Tsar Nicholas II

p.s. go and ask Rasputin, isn't this why you keep him around?

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So, I asked this in the last thread, but... do you guys ever have trouble sorting books? Like, saving from the Library and other sites, so you end up with a bit of a cluttered mess, even with separate folders?

Because I've been going through and cleaning up a lot lately and I wonder if this is a common problem for many. Similar-but-different titles, or different versions of the same texts, or the exact same file just saved twice to different folders.

Just wondering if this is normal, to have more books than you can remember.

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>>19035308

No. If you're having trouble, keep an index document and rename any files so that author/title is clear if they're not already clear. Also, I would suggest not compulsively hoarding if there's no specific purpose other than "I might want it later".

>>19035395
Honestly, I find it easier to find them on my own computer than I do in some of the archives, and I can't ever be certain when something I want will be available later on.

An index does sound like a good idea. I've also taken to producing shortcuts so I can access files in other folders, where I may have sorted twice due to shared topics within a text. Still takes up space, but usually less than featuring it twice.

>>19035407
There are programs you can download that will compare files and delete duplicates.
Look around cnet/download.com.

>>19034889
Don't worry about the shipping.
I'm not sure how you want to give me your best shipping address.
Got a PO box?

>>19035430
Also- there are programs that will print out a directory with all file names/ contents (something Windows will not do by default). Again, cnet or download.com.

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Does anyone have an opinion on, or interest in on the works and philosophy of GWF Hegel?

He's obviously a big name in 'conventional' philosophy, but there's a definite occult (mostly Hermetic) slant to much of his work, especially stuff like his complex dialectical metaphysics (doctrine of the unity of opposites, sublation to higher forms, etc.)

>https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/en/magee.htm
I have read the above, but I am wondering if anyone else has some good works on the link between Hegel and occult traditions.

There's also the question of Hegel's huge influence on Marx as a thinker, and the fact that dialectical materialism has all sorts of spooky mystical implications

To quote Pynchon,
> if you don't think there are Marxist-Leninist magicians around, well you better think again!"

>>19035630
There's a great book about Hegel and occultism in the mega under "Philosophy"

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I'm currently a chaosbabby, but I've got a question about improving my method.

How do I get my will to manifest more conveniently or usefully?
My sigils work, but always in awkward ways where I can't take use of the opportunity.
I've met experienced magicians in the queue for the checkout, beautiful women seen once and never again and had brilliant ideas that I never never realised fully.

Do I just refine my meditation techniques until it is truly focused?
Or should I consider branching out into more advanced methods?

>>19035437
Do you have a throwaway email? Mine is [email protected] I think I can borrow a po box but I need to ask first.

>>19035430
I recommend DupeGuru for this.

>>19035441
You can do this in Windows without special software. Open the console, cd to whichever folder you want to index, and type the following: "dir /s/b>index.txt"

are the 42 books of thoth in this library?

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>>19033941
I was summoning Buer. Suddenly a lightning storm started, and intensified. I took it as some reaction, so after all the other works, and banishing, the storm abruptly stopped.

Buer is not associated with storms, Amdusias is. Don't know what to make of it.

>>19035948
How do I do this? Give me a quick rundown.

>>19035996
>/sum/ pastebin:
>http://pastebin.com/HhU18gCW

It's in every thread m8.

>>19035091
Thanks anon! I think I might just go for it and dig in. Always up for a bit of spiritual development, anyway. Oh, and how hairy are his other books to get into? Do they stand alone or would finishing this first one help?

>>19036168
Never got a bad experience with his second book and haven't tried out the third one. IIRC according to Bardon you should work through the first eight steps of IIH before trying out evocation, but because that is nonsense (many folks start with evocation) his works do stand alone.

He is an interesting author for sure. I guess try to finish IIH if you want to become Hermes or something, lol...

>>19035665
I know I'm 5+ hours late; but what praxes do you know? I'd branch out if I were you anyways - doesn't matter if you're a chaote.

>>19035935
I don't think so. Just read the books in the Egyptian folder.

>>19034438
>dark side of Santería
wrong, palo mayombe has nothing to do with santería. A common mistake.

Anyone know any gorilla-related deities, entities or anything like that? I keep seeing gorillas both in my dreams and in my psychedelic trips, need some guidance.

How do I make the leap from reading to practising? Whenever I think about actually having a go at the rituals and excersises I've read about, I just can't bring myself to do it.

So, PaloChan, if I may ask did you ever get around to curse this guy >>19033577?

I bet you really showed them XD

>>19036871
Maybe set up an altar with a gorilla toy or even statue, and give the figurine offerings and speak to it daily. It will come.

>>19036871

Try invoking Harambe.

>>19036871
Thoth?

>>19036871

Not necessarily, maybe they are guardians to you.

I saw on visions wolves, but my helper was the snake.

Anyone been posting in the 7 days thread recently? Been trying New Avatar Power. Nothing has worked.

>>19034616
Indeed, there is no black or white.
Magic is magic. Simple.

Is your life magic or is it not?
It won't be good or bad unless you want it to be.. However it will be very intense with many twists.

>>19036897

Just do it. There is no trick, there is no special toggle switch on your back that you flip from "lazy" to "active". I'd venture to say it's your fear that's the problem; Either a fear of the potential changes, or fear of the seemingly monumental task before you. Start small and build your way up with baby steps until you're able to comfortably handle it. I would suggest starting with the lesser invoking ritual of the pentagram once per day for a week or two, then tacking on the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram before bed. Keep that up for a month or so, then start folding other rituals/practices in to your daily routine every couple months or so.

Eventual Suggested Dailies:

>yoga
>zazen meditation
>lesser ritual of the pentagram (i + b)
>lesser ritual of the hexagram (i + b)
>liber resh vel helios
>middle pillar ritual
>rose cross ritual
>liber v vel reguli
>bornless ritual

>>19037032
I'll try this, cheers

>>19037035
I mean, he's dead and quite literally has/had millions of people sending his spirit power, maybe not actually as stupid as it sounds?

>>19037036
Didn't know there was a connection between Thoth and gorillas but ok. You talking about Ape or the god? I highly doubt Ape is trying to talk to me through my dreams, but you never know...

>>19037037
This might be it. I'm kind of hoping to find some wacky tribal gorilla god though.

How important is the whole planetary hour and planet position thing for goetic summoning?
I'd like to follow the /sum/ guide completely but it will take like 2 months for the spirit I want.

>>19033941
did ape die?

>>19037140
It can work, but it will work better if you follow the planetary hours.

Are any of you religious

>>19037232
Occultists are spiritual but not necessarily religious, they are too quick to jump paradigms to count as such.

>>19037274
>not necessarily

This is the operative part of this statement. I think a lot of it depends on what you define as 'being religious' but there are definitely occultists who practice religion.

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>>19035670
Just send to [email protected]
I used to use it for work.
But I check it pretty infrequently now unless I know something may come in.
I keep it around because it still has alot of emails from my husband.

>>19036932
Don't mistake silence for torpor.
My middle finger is perpetually in the air, and misfortune will strike when it's least expected.
You should be wary of women who carry irrational grudges.

>>19036871
Go African.
ATR, Lucumi, Palo Monte, Palo Mayombe, Quimbanda, Vodou

Gorilla is a forest spirit.
Depends on if you are looking for a yin energy Gorilla, or a yang energy Gorilla.
What is Gorilla doing when you see it?

>>19037032
This is good advice.
>>19037036
OG is mistaking a Baboon for a Gorilla.

>>19037145
Paid Vacation.

>>19037232
Yes, Animism.

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>>19036932
Yeah, she probably did. As an outsider I hope he or she is okay..
>>19037310
>there are definitely occultists who practice religion
Yep. You could (also) say that magick is a religion in and of itself.

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>>19037336
Madre Agua.
Fearsome Mother.
Mother of Typhoon.

I tried to make an Ileke for her last night with Torqoise and Shell and the hemp string wouldn't go through the eye of the beads.
She is very cold to me.
Even the one time I got to meet her, she brought Siete Rayos and they just glowered at me in silence.
It's sad a sad day when a mother turns her back on even her great-godchildren.

>>19037367
not that I specifically know a lot about the Palo deities but...

>Goddess of cool flowing water, healing, motherhood, an embodiment of 'coagula'
>You're dedicated to the god of fire, blades, iron, ambition, and an embodiment of 'solve'

I say this with all the respect in the world but... maybe she thinks you're a bit of a hellion.

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>>19037394
Bwahahaha.

All of his children inherit a bit of his funk, in one way or another.

But not fire - that would be his estranged brother/cousin Brazo Fuerte.
Handle fire with care, fire melts metal.

He's more of the cold murkiness of the wet Earth, and the damp of the mines, and the pounding of the hammer on cold forged metal.
Creation through brute force, and determination.

>The advantages of Cold Forging:
>Easier to impart directional properties
>Improved interchangeability
>Improved reproducibility
>Increased dimensional control
>Handles high stress and high die loads
>Produces net shape or near-net shape parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkUeEfV6cdw

>>19037447
>But not fire
ahh I guess I was seeing him as more of a Hephaestus god of the forge thing, thank you.

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>>19037537
;) I've referred to him as Hephaestus too before.
But imagine Hephaestus with an industrial hydraulic forge setup.

And, like Hephaestus, he is also enthralled with the goddess of love, beauty, and emotions - Mama Sholan.
Though she frequently rejects him.
She also lured him into a trap set by the other Mpungo after he was compelled to exile himself to the Earth/forest.
She showed up naked and smeared with honey, and he chased her into the village where the trap was waiting for him.
Blind ambition chases it's goal to it's own destruction.

>>19037575
Use a text based on inner reflection, self-improvement, and confidence building.
Once you work on confidence in yourself you'll be able to get out and meet more new people without as much anxiety.
Some of those new people you'll meet will be WOMEN!
Some of them may want to go places with you which could turn into going on dates with you.
But, first work on your inner self.
Then, you can take that new confidence and self-reflection to the outside.
You may also try Hypno Therapy - which is all just the power of suggestion but is very effective.
Women love self-assuredness - confidence and stability without being cocky.

Or, you may find that once you are working on your inner self that the dream of a girlfriend is just chasing your own discomfort with being alone with yourself.
Once you are at peace with yourself, you may not even WANT a partner anymore (at least for a while).

Do as I say, not as I do.
I'm good at instructing others, but I can't control myself too well.

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>>19035948
This will also happen if you summon Balor.
He is a tricky one, very powerful and hard to handle even after death.
An old enemy but he is good at storms and sea related destruction.
He is the entity I used to almost recreate the highlands in the middle of the desert.
Everything was so green and foggy like I couldn't believe.

>>19037325
Maybe it's a really ripped monkey, dunno lol

>>19037367
Oy bruh, she brought the 7 great thunders?
or just average thunder?
one more great thunder and you are looking at an entity from the land of the dead.
That would be a very bad omen.
also water is tainted by earth, so that might be why she is a little reluctant. If it was fire she would not gaf.

>>19034572
everyone knows what black magic is what they mean to say is bad or evil magic unless your one of those guys who feels the need to over analyse concepts, meanings and ethics, you should stay away from black/dark magic

>>19037121
They're talking about "*The* Ape of Thoth." Google is your friend, anon.

>>19037120
>liber v vel reguli
Care to explain why the pentagrams are inverted in this one?

>>19037185
This. But it depends on how good you are in general. At least that's what Ape said when I asked.

>>19035665
Learn the various branches of yoga; improve meditation; maintain your daily ritual schedule and if you don't have one, make one; Learn Ceremonial if you haven't already; Of thy own ingenium devise other methods.

>>19035064
Yes. Absolute balderdash.

>>19037653
>everyone knows what black magic is
Do you think this is factually accurate? Do you think everyone's definition is the same? That seems unlikely.

>bad or evil magic
See this is the problem, every culture, and moreso every person has different definitions of bad and/or evil. Sometimes doing a "good" thing can result in terrible outcomes, sometimes doing a "bad" thing can help everyone. These definitions are not so simply compartmentalized.

>you should stay away from black/dark magic
But why though? Is there a punishment? If so by whom? If not, what is the ramification of doing "black/dark" magic? Is it psychological damage? emotional damage? can you explain?

>>19037653
No, many have different definitions. Some say it is Any Magic At All. Some say it is any magic that is not performed with the ultimate end/service of the K&C of HGA. Some say it's any magic that isn't in alignment with their personal beliefs (MOST) which makes it awfully hard to know wtf someone is even referring to with such an archaic term as "black magic" these days.

Any books with good astral projection methods in the sticky?
Failing that, do you have any personal methods for triggering AP?

>>19037715

Read Astral Dynamics.

>>19037715
http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Rising_on_the_Planes

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Astral_projection

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Body_of_light

Here is some info along with one method, called "rRising on the Planes." It may or may not work for you, but has been found to be effective by many, including myself. In addition, multiple methods may work for one person, but typically there is one that works better than the rest. There are as many methods as there are traditions, I dare say.

>>19037720
It can sometimes take months or a year or more before finding and mastering a method, so be prepared for some discipline and dedication.

>>19037621
Before I knew anything substantial, and was just getting curious about ATR, I got to meet her.
I wanted her to be my Mpungo.
She came with Siete Rayos, and he sat at her right side.
She brought him more for show; a little dog in a purse that bristles and growls but nothing more.
They both stared at me silently and full of disdain.
In hindsight, knowing what I know now I understand why she rejected me.
At least she had the courtesy to do it silently and not embarrass me.
She said everything she needed to say with a glance.

>Water is tainted by Earth
>More than you will ever know.

>>19037762
In systems like Palo Mayombe and its cousins, is a wand used? Or any kind of weapon/phallic device?

>>19036871
I think there are both Egyptian and indian gods who are monkeys, apes, etc, try google or Wikipedia for more information

>>19037796
What system is that from?

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>>19037776
Some have walking sticks with bells that are used or placed around the alter of the Eggungun honored dead.
I don't use a wand.
I use a fan.
Which, I think, is fairly non-traditional.
I've never seen a "wand" in the traditional sense used by anyone practicing REAL diaspora based paths.

Even the Palo sticks are only used for soaking water, then dehydrating, and grinding into powders for ingredients in formula.
The symbolize "powers" that can be added to a working, but they are not used to direct the energy.
You direct the energy by tying it to the person or thing or goal you are working by sympathetic means.
You also direct the energy through "intermediaries" like the Cauldron and the Spirit of the Cauldron.
It's more like water flowing through a channel you have dug in the ground.
Less like the path of a frisbee that you have thrown through the air.
The frisbee doesn't always end up at the point you were trying to direct it.
The water (as long as you don't use too much) will always flow through the channel in the path you have directed it towards.

Does that make sense?

>>19037807

Yes. Thank you. Fans are used in western ceremonial, so that's kind of cool. I have actually been combining ceremonial techniques with the hoodoo stuff sevis has been helping me out with. Seems to be going well.

>>19037807
I want to clarify that the walking stick with bells and fabric or tassels are used more like rattles, or like the bells on the garments of ancient priests.
They clear the air.
They are also useful for inducing ecstatic states if used with songs/chanting.
I use a more traditional rattle with seeds pods along with the fan and chanting to get to semi trance and then I feed not only a food offering but my own raised energy to whatever I am feeding.
I've also been known to feed my own blood as a devotional to whatever I'm feeding - but only in times when a dire need is being requested.
Like when working on behalf of someone in the hospital and so on.
I also simultaneously "root" and draw new energy from the "Earth" to replenish what I'm transferring.
It's generally said, don't feed your own blood when working.
But, what would be a better offering when you need to show that you offer not only your devotion but your own body and soul to service in exchange to favor in an urgent situation?
If they're already seated they own your ass anyway.

>>19037762
mmm, ok.
I was worried for a sec.
I thought it was part of the 8 great thunders of Yomi.
Just misinterpreted orz

>>19037805
that smells like Bertiaux

>>19037807
that was eloquent and I think it helped me understand something Ive been having trouble with, thank you Palo. I would like to mention that the Ason (the rattle, I dont know what its called in palo) does bare some superficial resemblance and some duties with a "wand"

>>19037834
Thankya.

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>>19037844
Ason it is!
I don't know the official term either.

>>19037891
>>19037844

Does Palo have a sex magick aspect in its tradition? Or do other folk Magick systems?

>>19035308
you asked last thread buddy, didn't like your answers, huh?

Thoughts on Baal Kadmon?

>>19037937
Sounds low- IQ from the little I know of him.

>>19037944
>19037944
Or, at least, le edgelord who wants to sell books to le other edgelords

Is anyone getting into any good magickal/mystical shenanigans this afternoon?

>>19037844
What's a good folk magic technique to get my girlfriend either a raise or more money or something? I don't really want to try the sigil thing Palo was talking about, if I can avoid it.

>>19037715
Avoid anything by Robert Bruce when researching Astral Projection, dude is a total hack and spews nonsense. AKA: "My spirit guide told me an evil wizard cursed me in a past life and that's why every mistake I've made isn't my fault"

>>19038061
WTF seriously? what a clown. I also love the people who say "if you sense a nearby being or one shows up, it's your spirit guide!" Like where the hell are these people getting their information. Certainly not personal experience.

>>19034128
>>19034240
>>19034678
>>19035395
>>19037120
Born and raised Catholic, I still pursue my faith. I have however stepped outside the fear of the occult which the church holds, and began my independent research.

I began with formal academic studies into the occult from the perspective as a historian, starting with the texts of Hermes Trismegistus. Afterwards, I continued my research with light studies on the ancient pantheons and Canadian aboriginal spiritualism.

The magic I read of and learn is only a supporting guide to my studies of the truths, mysteries, and wisdoms of the metaphysical.

What additional texts do you recommend for delving deeper into the mysteries of the metaphysical? Beyond the histories, deeper than that.

>>19038093
Bhagavad Gita. The Upanishads. The Vedas.

Is there anything in the library about greco-buddhism?

>>19038108
Appreciated and noted

>>19037992
If you aren't gonna dedicate yourself to a deity you are looking into the wrong path.

>>19037700
>But why though? Is there a punishment? If so by whom? If not, what is the ramification of doing "black/dark" magic? Is it psychological damage? emotional damage? can you explain?

Now if black magic was real then Putin, Kim Jong-un and Bono would've kicked the bucket right there and then at the very moment they became celebrities. And I know you are already dreaming up all kinds of reasons why this should not be the case -- dumb reasons such as that only celebrities are protected by fate or similar great powers -- but do you actually think that mega-bitches like certain online 'magicians' would breathe for another second if one of us could just drop their names into our collective Aga Mass Ssaratu while burning in it some good ole bread nettle & pine. However black magic is not that fucking easy, *not* even with a tag-lock. I mean half of these types sell their useless shit online so you could literally order a tag-lock directly from the target, and hundreds must have done this after learning they are *fucking frauds* and that the home-made spells these dilettantes sell don't do jack shit!!

Knowing all this, the real and noteworthy threat here is that the moment you try your first real-life curse you will poison your own mind by showing God that it is **you** that Jesus hates. In other words you will stunt your initiation and will never attain the heights of true adepts (which few know about because everyone is acting based on emotion and mostly dabbling anyways). Go evoke the seven archangels instead focusing on your first and then second and then third most major life problem instead, and don't lose interest in your workings until all of those (real) life problems have been *solved*.

tl;dr: Don't do black magic, kids. There are more things between heaven and earth.

>>19038150
Not according to practitioners I have talked to thus far. Besides how do you know I'm not dedicated to a deity? Careful with that axe, Eugene.

>>19038108
The Gita compiled by that hare Krishna fella I self indulgent desu and tells a lot of lies about lord shiva

>>19038150
What do you think of the Christian saints? Say, like Padre Pio?

>>19038174
If you think this, could you recommend any texts that in your opinion counterbalance this bias? I know very little about the spiritualisms of India. Thanks.

>>19038181
If you really want to delve into shaivistic literature I suggest the puranas

>>19038198
I try to maintain the perspective of the scholar. I'll never turn information down. I'll take anything that comes, and leave my take on them against what I've learned so far.

>>19038172
Sigils are basically the same thing in concept is what I am saying. Instead of a form a shape.

>>19038175
why? Under Catholic thought they are saints to help people on their path with god. Pio in particular suffered much and had stigmata. Also said to be attacked by the devil himself(not specified which, usually throw satan around) on several occasions.

Personally I don't really talk with him.
Just don't relate atm.

>>19037973
if they here then no, otherwise they're busy doing stuff and cant tell you

>>19038228
I'm curious about the role in which a Catholic can maintain a study of all the mysteries, without distancing himself from God. I like the Hermetic stance how a greater depth of knowledge only deepens the faith.

I want to see things for what they are. I want to hear things for what they are. I want my senses to feel what is there for what it is. I want to recognize the hidden.

>>19038210
Spiritually speaking, where are you?

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>>19038093

Generic Reading List:

Tao Te Ching
Psychic Self Defense
Practical Taoism
Falun Gong
Secret Teachings of All Ages
A New Model of the Universe
Prometheus Rising
Low Magick
Corpus Hermeticum
The Fourth Way
Nag Hammadi
The Doctrine of Awakening
Astral Dynamics
Revolt Against the Modern World
Ride the Tiger
Kali Kaula
Visual Magick
Burst of Breath
Chicken Qabalah
Awakened Ground
Sefer Yetzirah
Book 4 Part 1 - Mysticism
Book 4 Part 2 - Magick
Book 4 Part 3 - Magick in Theory and Practice
Book 4 Part 4 - The Law
Liber 6
Liber 777
Liber 111
The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic
Three Books of Occult Philosophy
The Book of Ceremonial Magick
The Psychick Bible
Liber Null
Condensed Chaos
Book of Lies
Book of Thoth
78 Degrees of Wisdom
The Tarot of Awakening
The Way of the Crucible
Real Alchemy
Prime Chaos
Liber Kaos
Liber 800

>>19038264
I serve the Lord. I have no regard for the Vatican as a body of persons, but the knowledge of the church enchants me. I don't recoil at the sight of things foreign and taboo, only curious.

I want balance. I have come to understand peace. I have felt it. I have been on my knees before the blessed sacrament, and I have been revealed brief ecstasy. I want to learn of the creation of God without seeing through the lenses of humanity's fallen nature and the bias of being Catholic.

I have learned to fight without inflicting violence against my own spirit.

If I died today, I would accept it, and fight for breath until I could either get absolution, and bring my spirit into a state of peace.

>>19038273
Recorded, and appreciated.

>>19038284

are you still trinitarian

>>19038284
Help me save my soul they are taking my soul in this night...

>>19038295
Get a strong priest.
>>19038289
Catholics believe in the Trinity, yes.

>>19038284
Key word: Archons.

>>19038300
Thanks, will research

>>19038259
Interesting, glad to hear it.
Good luck.

>>19038311
Thanks. Be blessed.

>>19033941

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pardos/ArchiveSolDemons.html

>>19038155
>Jesus
And there it is, thanks for playing, fuck along now. Not everyone agrees with your theology or cosmology, no matter how much it pisses you off.

tl;dr Don't listen to christians, kids, theyre terribly confused with how the world works.

>>19038449
What are you talking about? My tone was facetious in case you missed it. Did you really think that a Christian would use Nec? Hello??

>>19038449
At least give my faggotry some credit.
>>19038284
I think its good faggotry.

>>19038456
And by this I meant the tone of the Jesus line alone and not the whole post.

>>19038460
If sèvis has chosen to denounce Christ then it is their business.

>>19038488
There's a difference between denouncing something, and refusing it study it.

>>19038456
man I dont fucking know, your "tone" is all over the place, I cant tell if your *-knighting, preaching the gospel, or what, your point is all over the place

>>19038488
I dont denounce him, have no reason to believe he existed, was what he says he was, or is worth worship, he can feel free to show me otherwise, until then, I have no intention of following the ideology.

>>19037700
Only a contrarian like you doesntknow what black magic is, like arguing over definitions of good or bad just like I said, jesus your predicable, I leave the thread for an hour or three and this is what you come up with?
A grown man who doesn't know the difference between right or wrong, assuming you are an adult of course.
You know what do all the black magic you like but remember what comes around goes around, hell, karma, three fold law, etc,etc

>>19038523
I'm saying that by practicing black magic you will (most likely) only poison your own mind.

But let's assume for a second that even against the odds you actually manage to legit curse somebody. How do you know that they aren't aware of this little trick: when you feel magically under the weather, but don't know the source, instead of N.N. you can write use the name "My Attacker". Tada motherfuckers!!! It works just as well. Know why this is? It's because every spell flying around in the magical dimension carries a unique spiritual DNA. IF you want to protect yourself, may I suggest (1) a witch bottle, (2) a mirror spell, and (3) a real spirit from a real tradition. Those three will surely do the trick. But if not, it is always possible to contact an expert...and that is Michael.

>>19037701
Again, the same as my reply to sevis if you've gone this far without knowing what is blackmagic and what is white magic I question your logic, wisdom, intelligence,etc just like SEVIS above.

>>19038155
Lol some of us cast protection on Russia, and on Korea and the Asian continent. Bono is blessed by many. You think one unhappy wizard with a mean streak can go against all of that? They have their own deities and gods. It's a spiritual war every day.

>>19038572
>As if more people don't despise dictators than love them.

>>19038590
last I checked occultism wasn't popular, so anger and homicidal intent just won't cut it in the murder business. It might, influence things, but by that same reasoning the usa should be on fire like a hundred times over already.
Maybe when people wake up to occultism shit will start to hit the fan more often. That is also mostly why the us government tries to get as many spiritists on it's side by choice or by force. If they don't comply, they get singled out as nutcases and publicly shamed or institutionalized.

>>19038548
>Those three will surely do the trick.
I just eat 3 radishes with a salad every day,

>>19033941
I found a book "a brief summary of the prophecy of the great pyramid of gizeh" by Catherine Aller

should I scan this for the library or is it in there? the book describes initiation rites to be conducted inside the great pyramid. Or the description of the return of jesus or something

>>19038572
I recall reading about some cult in Russia that believe Putin is a saint or god, but it may have been a satire or performance art

>>19038545
>a contrarian
contrarian? Im asking for your perceptions of these things, why can we not have a discussion about what good and bad is?

>A grown man who doesn't know the difference between right or wrong, assuming you are an adult of course.
Assuming many things in that post, and why should my definitions of right and wrong be the same as yours? Are you that arrogant?

>You know what do all the black magic you like
permission not required, but thanks.

> hell, karma, three fold law, etc,etc
don't believe any of those actually exist, sorry.

>>19038548
>only poison your own mind.
but why tho?

I dont disagree with anything else youre saying and have used all of the above, including Michael. Just waiting for that why.

>>19038766
>contrarian? Im asking for your perceptions of these things, why can we not have a discussion about what good and bad is?
Look this isn't lit or his or philosophy. I aint discussing ethics with you. If after 18 odd years on this planet you don't know what good or bad is I feel sorry for you.
>arrogant?
Look in a mirror pet then you'll know.
Again, if you don't know right from wrong, someone did a piss poor job at raising you or didn't care.
>but thanks
go ahead not my funeral
>sorry
They don't exist but black magic exists to the extent you'll argue semantics with people on a wicca-mat appreciation forum

>>19038821
> I aint discussing ethics with you
then Ill disregard your opinion on ethics.

>If after 18 odd years on this planet you don't know what good or bad is I feel sorry for you.
No worries, Im fully aware of what good and bad is, I just have a feeling my opinion differs from yours.

>pet
srsly?

>go ahead
Do you have some sort of compulsion to give people permission to do things so that you have a feeling of control? Just curious.

>They don't exist
then why should I fear them, and moreover, why would you use them as existential threats?

>wicca-mat appreciation forum
have you been here long?

Does anybody here try and reconcile a pan-Indo-European pantheon/mythology

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>>19037325
Ok, email sent.

>>19038855
>then Ill disregard your opinion on ethics.
I'm not discussing ethic because this is basic stuff, I don't have to go into whats right and wrong because nearly every member of society does understand and I feel your insistence on rehashing this stuff is just to slow down or frustrate discussion.
>No worries, Im fully aware of what good and bad is, I just have a feeling my opinion differs from yours.
>Do you have some sort of compulsion to give people permission to do things so that you have a feeling of control? Just curious.
And yet you arm chairing psycho freuding chairing me is alright?
>srylsy?
again if name calling is your thing, fine, but when your just as if not even more arrogant than me then what do you expect pet?
Also pet is a term of endearment pet
>have you been here long?
Log enough to recognise a meme response aka calling 4chan a string of ridiculous things example mongolian cheese appreciation hut or Hungarian throat yodelling fora, etc,etc
But no you go ahead a call me new if you'd like rather than express ignorance of chan culture

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>>19038766
>>only poison your own mind.
>but why tho?

Because you have to sleep at night as yourself: there is no escape from you. And every time you wake up in the morning your past unwholesome black magic deed returns to your waking awareness as a memory, bringing with it that taste of bile; that taste of regret, and as more days pile up and you have already stepped into another stream, that same one miserable mistake you once made when you resorted to occultism in order to hurt another person is still working its evil magic out there, somewhere, (perhaps) right now eating away another soul. You keep telling yourself that you did what you did because of that heat of the moment back then, but maybe what you did is nevertheless now your karma - unless you are so smart that you ***know*** there is no such thing as karma. ..After all the concept of karma has been around only a few thousand years and you are One Evil Bitch From Hell That God Better MF'ing Dodge. ...But are you? Deep down you are not sure if you were evil when you played Zelda with your best friend on Nintendo....you were only happy. Wherever did that happiness go. Nowadays you don't have Zelda anymore, but you DO have Satan - or whatever name you use for him. You work your magic in the crossroads but you know it is not Him, not the evil that runs in the world, but who YOU like the Black Man to be. Because that's how the world works, right? Everything is permitted.

>>19038855
>then why should I fear them, and moreover, why would you use them as existential threats?
Actually if you read the reply you would see me questioning why black magic as a concept exists but you dismiss hell and wicca magic rule as not real but are discussing black magic with the implicit understanding that it is real.
>control? Just curious.
Depends. Do you need to condense to people and dance around the questions/argument? pet?

>>19038909
>Depends. Do you need to condescend to people and dance around the questions/argument? pet?
Of course he does. He is one of Thoth's own adepts, disciples and he does it all the time too!

>>19038766
>Assuming many things in that post, and why should my definitions of right and wrong be the same as yours? Are you that arrogant?
Terrible ad homen but do you think its alright to rape/molest someone, a woman or child?
I like most people would say no, it is not right but if you and I have to go down the list and tick off every right and wrong than we're in for a long night.
Of course that what you want us to do because I cant know what you think is right or wrong can I?
It'd be arrogant to assume basic moral principles like that

>>19038888
>this is basic stuff
if it is is, why is the study of ethics and the differences in cultural beliefs still a contentious topic to this day? You can major in ethics, it's clearly not that cut and dry.

>rehashing this stuff is just to slow down or frustrate discussion.
I dont intend to slow it down, you're the one who brought it up. Im more than happy to discuss it. Youre the one whos refusing to discuss.

>And yet you arm chairing psycho freuding chairing me is alright?
I think you may be frustrated, this is barely intelligible, take a minute relax and come back.

>again if name calling is your thing
Didnt call you arrogant, I asked if you were. I still don't know if you are arrogant or not, because there is a possibility you may just be terribly deluded.

>Log enough to recognise a meme response
B... but I didnt give you a meme response. I asked how long you'd been here, because /omg/ is generally not terribly wiccan friendly.

Why are you so frustrated that I want to hear your opinions?

>>19038897
>you have to sleep at night as yourself
I sleep fine, black magic does not appear to have poisoned me. No Bile, regret or misery. I am confident when I cast that I have understood the seriousness of what I am doing. I have never said "I did it because of the heat of the moment" in regards to magic, ever.

I don't believe in karma from a very practical standpoint, because I do not see its effects in action. I am also quite in reverence to god(s) just probably not the same one(s) you are.

>Zelda refences
you ok?

>you DO have Satan
Don't believe in satan either, sorry, cant identify.

>Everything is permitted.
Did I say that? You seem to be making many presumptions about my worldview, why is that?

>>19038909
>why black magic as a concept exists
I said it doesn't, does that solve the dilemma for you?

>Do you need to condense to people
I don't need to condescend to people no. And I dont feel I have, I have simply asked you questions about your perspectives.

>>19039015
Just FYI black magic does not mean what you think it means.

>>19038955
>Terrible ad homen
again, I did not intend an ad-hominem attack, I was literally asking if you were that arrogant, because the only other option I see is ignorance to the world views of others, and I certainly didnt want to assume you were ignorant.

>do you think its alright to rape/molest someone, a woman or child?
Believing it is right or wrong does not constitute a belief in divine retribution for the act, or in a metaphysical consequence. For the record, no I do not believe that it is right to rape or molest a woman or child.

> if you and I have to go down the list and tick off every right and wrong than we're in for a long night.
Why would we do that? Im not asking for a list of everything right and wrong, Im asking what constitutes right and wrong, and whether it is truly a demonstrable and absolute thing, or if it is a cultural variable.

>Of course that what you want us to do because I cant know what you think is right or wrong can I?
What I want, is for you to consider the fact that from different perspectives, cultural, religious or otherwise, any given action may be seen as "good" or "bad". These opinions may also vary based on the end result of the action. This is pretty basic philosophical stuff here.

>It'd be arrogant to assume basic moral principles like that
No what would be arrogant is to assume that just because you have a certain set of ethical or moral beliefs, that everyone else should share all of them, say, their opinion on "black magic" (whatever that is) for instance.

>>19039040
fyi, "black magic" means nothing to me, it's an empty term who's meaning shifts depending on the person using it, I still have yet to hear a good description of what constitutes "black magic", or a definitive reason it should not be used even if it were sufficiently described.

>>19039015
I don't want to step on your balls mate but the mods get all ban friendly, when we respond too much to trolls. They are just spewing uninteligible drivel. Just summerfags on daddy's computer

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any idea what the last symbol could mean? I saw the lights in these shapes in the sky

>>19039056
What is your definition of black magic?

>>19039062
You think they're trolling? I think theyre trying to make a point thats relevant to the thread but they seem to be having a hard time doing it.

Either way, it doesnt seem to be coming to any kind of actual discussion so I suppose we'll let it die if the anons cant get to the point.

I was really hoping that we might have an intelligent discussion about what constitutes "ethics" with these anons, and get their opinion on what "black magic" is to them... just being curious.

>>19039066
I don't have one because I don't believe it exists.
I believe that these terms are imposed upon a (super)natural force by specific systems of belief.

Hearing "black magic" to me is a little like hearing "evil air" or "wicked water" or something, I don't really have a context.

>>19039088
You just said:

>black magic does not appear to have poisoned me. No Bile, regret or misery. I am confident when I cast [...]

What exactly is it that you do? Give us something to work with.

>>19039098
I probably should have put quotations around that since I was operating under the premise that it exists, for the sake of the discussion.

What do I do? Well, I "do" magic I guess, the other trips will know me for being interested in folk magic techniques and a lot of divination. I have particular interest in the african diaspora, and some european folk magics, Im primarily interested in how these forces have shaped modern american magics. I've studied some ceremonial magick. Im a student of chaos magic.

If youre asking what I use my magic FOR, or what I seek to do with it, I guess the best answer is that I do what I feel needs to be done. Sometimes that is creative, healing and positive things, sometimes it is destructive, or entropic things, usually it is neutral things.

>>19039132
Sounds good.

So, to put it simply by black magic you mean destructive magic?

>>19039152
No, I'm saying I do not know what black magic is.

I've heard people say that it is destructive magic, I've heard some people say its divination. I've heard some people say its only magic that relates to the spirits of the dead, I've heard people say it's any magic that has to do with the deific figure "Satan"... Some people say ANY magic is "black magic" which makes me wonder why they put the qualifier of "black" on front of it.

I do all kinds of things magically, Im bound to be doing something someone considers "black", but that seems to be constantly shifting based on the person.

>>19039189
A normal definition would be "The use of supernatural to cause harm to another person or another person's property or animals."

And I assume here that by destructive magic you meant the above definition, and nothing else?

>>19039207
yeah I suppose that about sums it up, though a specific person may not always be the target, also Im not sure the word "harm" is necessarily the best, that has certain physical implications that aren't always there.

>>19039223
Now I get it! Thanks.

>though a specific person may not always be the target
Just between me and you, has a specific person actually ever been your target in destructive magic?
>also Im not sure the word "harm" is necessarily the best
This raises the question that have you tried to specifically harm a single person with destructive magic?

I hope you reply to this and honestly to boot. I can undo all your karma -- if you just ask.

>>19039255
hey now don't get cocky. There's a a limit between someone playing along and you trying to pull a freudian slip out of your ass.

>>19039255
>Just between me and you
and 4chan? I'd have to say yes, it has occured that a single person has been the object of work which could be considered "destructive".

>have you tried to specifically harm a single person with destructive magic?
This is hard for me to answer. I only recall once or twice actually gearing something towards "harm" (as in injury) because that's usually overkill, or not conducive to the actual aim of the work.
However I will say that there have been a few times when I was less specific about the outcome in which harm may have occurred by a third party. There were also times that "harm" (as in injury or destruction of property) didn't happen.

Again I think we're working with kind of vague terms here.

I've never worked specifically for death, grave injury, sickness, or that sort of thing, that's just not how I do my work, I think Id have a hard time being that specific in a lot of cases.

>>19039341
Interesting. Looks like you draw a clear distinction between minor and grave injuries caused by destructive magic. It is a wonderful blessing to wield such a clear-cut power over the chthonic forces which can be unpredictable even to the best of us. Kudos. :)

>>19039341
I should clarify that last statement, because I realized that comes across as contradictory.

For the sake of the discussion, and so that I do not offend any powers that be:
I have worked for injury towards a specific person or their property. I think that's a clear enough way to say it.

>>19039367
yeah I realized thats how it came across.
I will state for the record that I am rarely in control of the actual injury or harm that comes, but were using the term "injury" very very loosely here to represent any destructive forces.
So that we can have the conversation without giving you a complete run-down of every magical intent I've ever had.

Also, interesting that you use the term cthonic, Im not sure I agree with that description.

>>19035665
keep working on gem stones

>>19039381
I'm personally checking results on a death curse.
So far so good. about two weeks in, car failures, burst tires, business problems, medical issues, family infighting. I hear it takes from 3 to 6 months. I sent two personas of death just in case one wasn't fast enough.

>>19037689
Can I ask why you'd say that? Just out of curiosity.

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>>19037930
Never got any answers. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked again.

>>19039464

Because somebody else said so, and forming opinions of your own is prohibited. That being said, Bardon's IIH is meh, primarily due to the shitty writing style and most of the information being available elsewhere. The exercises can be of use to babby's, and the condensers are nice, but that's about all its got going for it.

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>>19035430
>>19035441
>>19035710
I don't know how I feel about filling up my hard drive just to clear some of it, but I can give it a look. There's something fulfilling about doing it manually though. Helps me also see if I want to keep different versions for some reason.

>>19038273
Thus far, the Tao Te Ching may be my favorite religious text. I still like reading it just for fun.

>>19039367
>>19039255
so that's it then, you just inquire about my practice and don't finish the conversation? That doesn't do much to make any argument for your position.

Mediocre.

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My friend just bought Gardner's besom.

>>19039464
It's pretty shit. Very basic stuff. If you think "initiation" is about getting an extremely simple introduction to the practice then you might enjoy it. If you want a serious initiation, look elsewhere.

>>19037909
Not that I know of.
As far as I know the Mpungo are essentially Asexual.
Some have preferences as far as gender of their children.
Most of them don't care for OR are completely indifferent towards sexual activity in general.
There are lots of general sexual rules like "Dont wear Ilekes when having sex."
that are not necessarily abstinence oriented, but are just reinforcement of indifference towards sex.
Sex in the mythologies generally is only there to serve a teaching purpose as part of the story.
That's one of the faults of any mythology, is to assign human qualities to inhuman things so they are easier for us to understand.

I have my own thoughts on sex magic and magic in general that have nothing to do with anything ATR related.

I think the point of sex magick is not what most readers think it is.
I'm not sure that my theory would be helpful or useful for anyone else generally, and I'm not sure I could put it into understandable words at this point.
It's more of a graphical concept that I can see in my mind, but I don't have words to describe yet.

And, I wouldn't classify work with menstrual blood or semen as sexual magick.
I would classify it with other sympathetic fertility magicks - and fertility doesn't necessarily mean "sexual".
Sexual is a very limiting description for fertility magick.

In general, and based on a life of various experiences, it is my opinion that Sex Magick is worthless.

>>19039736
Sorry that I can't be non-stop at my computer.
>>19039398
>were using the term "injury" very very loosely here to represent any destructive forces.
I see. Well I am glad to learn that you are not hardcore into black magic, that stuff is not healthy. I hope you all the best wishing that your life will pan out well. Remember to evoke often.

>>19039788
SHUT THE FRONT DOOR.
I rail against it as the gateway drug of paganism, but Gardner made the summer of my 14th year.
Without Gardner, I wouldn't be who I am now.
Show me the proofs of authenticity.

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>>19039822
>but I don't have words to describe yet.

>And, I wouldn't classify work with menstrual blood or semen as sexual magick.
I would, frankly, agree.
Few people notice the stark differentiation between Star Sapphire and Mass.

>>19039840
>Show me the proofs of authenticity.
I ain't got receipts but it came from a Ripley's Believe it or Not on the West Coast so you can probably call them to verify they had and sold it.

>>19039511
>>19039815
Appreciate the input, anons. So then, if I can pester you with one final question, is there a book you'd recommend instead of IIH that goes along the same lines?

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>>19039863
You can buy shit from Ripleys?
Oh....my....god...
All those Papuan shrunken heads could be mine?!?!?!

>>19039879
I don't think they're exactly FOR SALE to public but if you have enough cash to cover their acquisition costs and chat it out with 'em, looks like the answer is "yes".

Everyone has a price.
Especially glorified carnies.

>>19039788
Do you know if any other magick systems involve the use of a besom? All I could find is that Wicca uses them sometimes and that's about it.

>>19039901
>enough cash to cover their acquisition costs
Are we talking like currency adjusted for today's inflation?
How much did your friend pay for the broom, for comparison purposes?

And, what is UP with you guys and your wood paneling?
Are all of you high magick types hung up on the wood paneling?
Don't answer that, I'm just poking fun.

I DO want to know the answer on the price of the broom though.

>>19039788
damn really? That had to have been worth something.

>>19039822
I think this is largely true of all the ATR and most of the diaspora because they're not firmly rooted in fertility based religions, sex just doesn't have the same significance. It's also part of the reason that sexual orientations really aren't much of a religious talking point. What do you think?

And did someone consider menstrual or seminal fluids "sex magic"? Its just a specifically charged taglock isn't it?

>>19039836
>Well I am glad to learn that you are not hardcore into black magic,
I still don't know what that is, but thanks I guess.

>>19039930
brooms are used extensively in hoodoo.

>>19039930
Some more modern African American folk traditions.
Never heard of jumping the broom?
Or, "I believe I'll dust my broom"?

>>19039934
>Don't answer that
I won't be happy until it's back on the exteriors of automobiles.

>price
I dunno I'm almost afraid to ask.
My educated guess would be in the 1-5k range, given limited experience in appraisal and acquisitions, and the upper limit is only because I know occultfags would go apeshit for it at a full blown auction, which sellers hopefully would be wise to.

See what happened to Zappa's Crowley collection. Sold for about ten times bid estimated by auctionhouses that don't understand that occult with provenance fetches asinine prices.

Is there something that can intensify the orgies I have with my FWB group, other than DMT and Drugs?

I'm interested in knowing if the sex can get any better by using magic. Appreciate any spoon feeding, still at work, so I'll read up when I get home.

>>19039958
Quick question
People are talking about summoning Angels and Spirits with quite a history behind them. They seem very mighty. Who are we to summon them and ask of them anything?

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>>19040155
>orgies
>dmt
Wew lad.

>Appreciate any spoon feeding
No. There's a sex magick folder for a reason, put in the effort or don't tinker with it.

>>19040165
>who are we
O Self my God, foreign is thy name except in blasphemy, for I am thy iconoclast. I cast thy bread upon the waters, for I myself am meat enough. Hidden in the labyrinth of the Alphabet is my sacred name, the Sigil of all things unknown. On Earth my kingdom is Eternity of Desire. My wish incarnates in the belief and becomes flesh, for I am the Living Truth.

This is He, Who having made Voice by His commandment is Lord of all Things; King, Ruler and Helper. Hear Me, and make all Spirits subject unto Me: so that every Spirit of the Firmament and of the Ether: upon the Earth and under the Earth: on dry Land and in the Water: of Whirling Air, and of rushing Fire: and every Spell and Scourge of God may be obedient unto Me.

A god who lives on his fathers,
who feeds on his mothers...
I am the Bull of Heaven
Who rages in this heart,
Who lives on the being of every god,
Who eats their entrails
When they come, their bodies full of magic
From the Isle of Flame...

>>19040192
>Sex Magick folder
You already spoonfed me, I was looking for a point in the right direction, should have clarified. Can't browse this stuff openly at work but I can keep the four channel open in a small window on the bottom right hand corner.

Thanks.

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>>19039937
Matriarchal domestic life was and in some areas of Africa still is a big thing.
But, I don't think that the "feminine mystique" was as important there as it was in the European cultures.
The attitude was more or less "Yeah, women have babies. So what. All females have babies."
But mom still baked your bread, and wiped your ass, and swept the threshold and took care of everything while dad was out in the field wherever all day.
So, she made MOST of the decisions in the home and dad was really only good for bringing food home every now and then.
I think the attitude is much more logical and simplistic.

Most African negativity towards menstruation came into fashion after closer contact with and assimilation of Islamic belief.

Some tribal women still walk around shirtless with children openly nursing, for crying out loud.

Some people assume that work with semen for instance has to be sexual in nature, due to the standard run-of-the-mill methods for obtaining.

Unless, you want to stick an aspirating needle into your testicles to pull a sample.
I'd pay to be a fly on the wall for that.

>>19039940
>>19039943
Cool, never knew it was a mostly African American tool. Thanks

>>19040165
>Who are we to
Some of "we" are on the path to Godhood.

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>>19040212
Also, some Euro.
Anglo-Saxon/Celtic type of thing.
So, North Western Europe.

Really, anywhere with Wattle-N-Daub housing.
Dirt floors and horse shit walls require a special breed of cleanliness.

>>19040212
>mostly African American tool
like Palo said here:
>>19040248
it's origins have as much to do with Europe as anywhere else.

I know I keep drilling this point home but hoodoo is not a black thing, it's a multicultural thing. It's as much a "boiling pot" as America itself, which is why it's such a uniquely American tradition.

Not trying to pick that scab again, but I think it's important to teach it. I've seen the awareness change people pretty profoundly.

>>19036654
>wrong, palo mayombe has nothing to do with santería. A common mistake.
Do you know any Paleros who disagree with calling Palo the dark side of Santería?

>>19036021
lol are you a bot? i literally just now am discovering bogdanoff shit.. but wtf is up with every single subreddit or youtube comment section or whatever has someone asking "for a rundown" about them and then this exact "rundown" spammed everywhere. wtf is this shit??

>>19035996
this ^ dude was not even asking for a bog rundown right?? wtf???

>>19041515
Quick rundown is a meme, often followed by some zany bogdanoff copypasta

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Could I charge a sigil using the spasmodic trance initiated by stretching first thing in the morning?

Need some advice.

I generally never pray. I just never really needed anything to pray for and I never wanted to bother the powers that be by requesting stupid shit like a girlfriend, money, to be able to bench 300kg etc.

But now for the second time I requested something and I got it on the next day. I'm a practical but don't really believe in such wild coincidence.

First by poor choices and pure laziness I suddenly ran out of money. I had to get in debt just to pay rent and for some reason I couldn't find a job for a few weeks. Then suddenly I requested help in return for a sacrifice and the next day I found work.

The second thing is about my mother. She has problem with her stomach, sometimes it starts hurting and she keeps puking, can't sleep from the pain and the doctors have no idea what it is(she went to Russia, Australia etc and nobody knows what it is). She almost died because of it, she told me she had a out of body experience and saw herself and my father crying and shaking her to wake up.

She came to visit a few days back, and last night it started again. She drinks some pills that help somewhat but she forgot to bring them with her. So I made a request again, for whatever is listening to help her and I'll give another sacrifice.

So my question is simple, what would be seen as a proper sacrifice? I hate being in debt to anyone, and since I've given a word it doesn't matter who or what or if anything helped I still have an obligation to pay up.

>>19041679
Forgot to mention that my mother got better the next morning.

>>19041679
>So my question is simple, what would be seen as a proper sacrifice?
Can't go wrong with a candle.

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What keywords should I search to find occult shops on google maps?

>>19038273
>The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic
Is this really adequate for a reading list? It is too long and it covers a lot of specific things to the tradition.
By the way. which edition do you recommend?

>>19038523
>he can feel free to show me otherwise
That could be very unwise. There are many things that will say "Hi!" when you call for Jesus; which you will get is the one that aligns the most with you.

>>19039062
>summerfag
Youknow Moot used to say that traffic didnt increase much during summer, didnt you and no I aint trolling, pet.
It's not my fault he (trip) wants to argue.

>>19039015
>>And yet you arm chairing psycho freuding chairing me is alright?
You were clearly trying to psycho analysis me, that was what the remark was about - with you asking why i felt the need to do things, sorry you couldn't parse that.
>basic stuff
But you can accept a basic standard - rape, murder -is wrong in every culture, cant you, if you cant comprehend the base values I cant be expected to help you.
>>again if name calling is your thing
Clearly it is, asking is the same as passive aggressively saying it.

B... but I didnt give you a meme response. I asked how long you'd been here, because /omg/ is generally not terribly wiccan friendly.
B... but I didnt give you a meme response. I asked how long you'd been here, because /omg/ is generally not terribly wiccan friendly.
B... but I didnt give you a meme response. I asked how long you'd been here, because /omg/ is generally not terribly wiccan friendly.

>>19038061
The "Astral Projection" text from Thelemapedia linked in >>19037720 quotes "Bruce, Robert (1999). Treatise on Astral Projection." as a reference.

>>19039015
>Youre the one whos refusing to discuss.
No. If I give my definition of blackmagic your the one who shit all over it, tell me I am wrong so why don't you give me your definition first, mmh?
Actuality can see in a later post you meant its about harm so you did know after all and just kept stringing out the conversation for some reason, hmmm, cant se why, bizarre, but what ever you like pet
>>Log enough to recognise a meme response
It is a meme, pet, if you didn't recgnise then too bad for you.
>I said it doesn't, does that solve the dilemma for you?
Then hundreds of years of magical theory are wrong, out-dated, by god and you accuse me of arrogance!
>I don't need to condescend to people no. And I dont feel I have
The Mirror love check it again
>assume you were ignorant.
Not rude at all. Gosh do you think your projecting?
>Believing it is right or wrong does not constitute a belief in divine retribution for the act, or in a metaphysical consequence. For the record, no I do not believe that it is right to rape or molest a woman or child.
Good to know.
>Why would we do that? Im not asking for a list of everything right and wrong, Im asking what constitutes right and wrong, and whether it is truly a demonstrable and absolute thing, or if it is a cultural variable.
You don't want to do that but you want my definition of a basic occult process that anyone with basic knowledge would posses - you'd expect me to go through lists and points for the benefit of that

>>19039045
>What I want, is for you to consider the fact that from different perspectives, cultural, religious or otherwise, any given action may be seen as "good" or "bad". These opinions may also vary based on the end result of the action. This is pretty basic philosophical stuff here.
And all I'm saying is that somethings are default for ethics, which you know and are instead quibbling with exact definitions of peoples morality when their is a default for basic human decency - what constitute right or wrong and you know that but still you keep arguing over exacting details
>No what would be arrogant is to assume that just because you have a certain set of ethical or moral beliefs, that everyone else should share all of them, say, their opinion on "black magic" (whatever that is) for instance.
And again you call me arrogant- look how long have you been studying magic, I know you've been in these threads before so you should have some basic understanding of black magic.
Yous imply strike me as wanting to be a contrarian -
>>19039062
If you think anything i've said is unintelligent drivel then you lack reading comprehension pet and if anything your fellow trip user is the troll by stringing out the conversation and yes you could say I am too but I merely want to respond to his remarks and insults
>daddys computer
Ok and your so mature kiddo FYI not daddys mine

>>19039223
Oh so you did know what it was but just kept dicking around or trolling, neat, guess I am the arrogant one for stringing you along when I had the answer all along, ha ha, see ya later pet

>>19039736
>>19039303
He's not the guy who he originally discussing black magic with

>>19039505
check the last thread, you did get 1reply

>>19041841
mesed that up
>B... but I didnt give you a meme response. I asked how long you'd been here, because /omg/ is generally not terribly wiccan friendly.
Its a meme. African Brum Website. Yak Churner Association. It's a meme anon sorry you didn't get it.
I get omg doesn't like wicca even though without it I guess alot of people today wouldn't be practicing magic.
And before you jump all over me, you know that it acts as a gateway for many magician leading them onto new paths and such-without it magic certainly wouldn't be as practice as it is today

>>19041515

Not a bot, just a smartarse who couldn't help throwing that out there in reply to a request for a 'quick rundown'

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>>19041766

Yes.

No it's not, if someone can't handle reading a book because it's long then they don't need to be fucking with magic because they lack the discipline and will necessary for The work.

2nd Ed.

>>19041949
2nd from New Falcon or the one from Llewellyn around 1970?

>>19041841
>>19041873
>>19041883
>>19041888
>>19041912
ehh fuck it.
It is my opinion good and evil are subjective, "black magic" is an arbitrary term, and nothing either of you have said challenges that belief.

I honestly wish it had because that would have been worth the two days we've been bickering.

I've clearly outlined both my belief, and my practice in this thread already so if you have a point, make it, so we can discuss it. Otherwise Im done conversing about it, and wont respond further until you make a coherent argument because we've completely shit up the thread at this point.

>>19033941
I have some questions about summoning I'd like answered, please.

1. Would birthday candles work fine for the triangle? They're all I have, but they are the same colours (pink and green)

2. Do I need the incense burner to do this? 'Cause I'm unable to get any.

3. Does the circle really have to be at least 22 feet, or is this a typo?

>>19042147
in my experience, a candle is a candle. You may run into trouble with birthday candles because they simply don't last long enough for most of what youd want to be doing.

You don't really need to buy an incense burner, what kind of incense are you using? The loose incense and charcoal burner type?

It's not a typo.

>>19042055
Your the one arguing semantics throughout. I said black magic, you asked for a definition, I said everyone knows it, the basic or default notion and you still wanted to know my definition, same with ethics and morality we were discussing but rather than assume the default you wanted to quibble over the details,
black magic is subjective in your opinion, and that's yours, doesn't make it true or the right answer, ask a occultist a few hundreds years ago and he'd give a different reply to you,
The funny thing is your already knew what I mean when you discussed harmful magic with another anon but you only wanted to be difficult and stretch out the argument, bog me down so i'd give up.
Short point: blackmagic is bad, you keep doing it if you want but don't go lying about how might makes right ,its alright jack type of person you are, to all the impressionable anons who come here seeking advice, don't drag them down the same path as you.

>>19042248
You're making the exact same talking points without stating what you consider to be black magic, you havent explained why it is "bad", I have not lied only stated my position, wtf is a jack type person? It's not my responsibility to think for other anons.

I know what harmful magic is, I dont know what "black magic" is. Are you saying that all harmful magic is "black magic"? Because if you are were finally getting somewhere.

>>19042240
K, I'll just get regular candles then

I don't any incense of the kind

And shit

>>19042265
This isn't something to rush into, youll be glad you prepared properly.

You WILL want the incense, I dont know what ritual you're working with, but an incense burner can be as simple as a sauce pan with some salt in it as a heat barrier. Don't overthink it, but don't under-prepare.

>>19042263
I explained it is the default answer, not my fault you wont assume, or did you forgot all the things I said about average morality and ethic and you just said that they aren't any or that peoples are different.
I dont believe in the easter bunny but if we were discussing it i'd assume the default and not question you about the size of its feet, length of its ears or fluffiness of its tail.
I'm allright jack means i'm alright so I don't care about any one else - google is your friend anon
Just go for the basic assumption that black magic is harmful like you wrong higher up in the thread but you were saying is alright and we'd have gontan there sooner if you assumed the default position of black magic instead of trying to attack my personal interpretation

>>19042275
>What ritual are you doing
Idk, I'm just going with the pastebin

>>19042280
There is no such thing as a "default" answer. Every culture has different perspectives. Every person has individual perspectives on their cultural expectations. If you were questioning the existence of the easter bunny, those would be entirely valid questions for determining whether it existed.

I cant use google when your posts are barely intelligible.

Im not attacking your personal interpretation, I was just asking for it. So for you, "black magic" is any magic which is "harmful". Would you mind defining harm? I presume you mean physical injury or destruction of property like we were discussing earlier. Under this assumption, can I ask you if you believe absolutely any use of destructive magic is inherently "wrong" and constitutes "black magic"? Is there any scenario in which it would be permissible in your philosophy? In your beliefs, how is the use of black magic punished or in what way is it detrimental, and is it always punished regardless of the situation? Im interested to hear your opinion because were actually getting to the point of the discussion now.

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>>19037621
>>19035948
Can somebody else add more/help me out here?

Is it possible that I've contacted some other entity than the one I attempted to evoke?
Or that it simply manifested itself in a way which I was not aware it could, or if there is even a limit to the ways it can?

>>19042288
Id really advise you read over that pastebin again like it says in step one, do you know what spirit you're working with? Read and re-read the pastebin so you know what you're getting into and make sure to follow step one and do all preparatory work. Yes, there's a lot of it I know.

>>19042304
see you make my point for me.
Ad Homens. Personal attacks. Asking me to define simply principles for you-you really trying to discourage me aren't you?
If you think destroying crops, making people ill, curses, murder by magic is alright then clearly your in no place to lecture me about anything.
Oh but you'll say it is ok in certain situations - like cursing someone who annoys you, tell me how you think your the mature one when your thinking is alone the line of you can do whatever you like.

>>19042314
The spirit I want to work with is Marbas

>>19042312
Do you have reason to believe that you somehow contacted a different entity?

I would say its about 100% likely that it is capable of manifesting itself in ways you were not aware of.

>>19042304
Like i'm guessing from your post murder is fine as long as its right by what you feel, so go ahead, kill people with magic if you want but don't go around thinking what your doing isn't black magic because it is
>but what if there hitler?
Doesn't matter. Moral absolutitist, either right or wrong, you don't get to choose.

>>19042317
I didn't make an ad-hominem attack, if you don't want me to say that your posts are barely intelligible, take the time to write them correctly.

Im not trying to discourage you, we're finally getting to the good part.

>If you think...
I never stated I think any of those things specifically, please do not put words in my mouth. Also I am not lecturing you about anything, I am stating my opinion and asking you yours, if that comes across as a lecture, I don't know what to tell you.

I didn't say its ok in certain situations, I asked you if YOU thought it was. I never stated "I was the mature one" again, please don't put words in my mouth. I also never ever said "you can do what you like" that is not a part of my philosophy.

Please answer my relatively nicely worded and polite questions about your philosophy or Im just going to assume you're trolling at this point.

Please define "harm". Please tell me whether absolutely any use of "harmful" magic is "black magic" regardless of the situation, and please tell me if it is always punished regardless, and if so, how?

>>19042320
>I would say its about 100% likely that it is capable of manifesting itself in ways you were not aware of.

Yeah, I suspected that, going by the things I've read and the experiences I've heard.

>Do you have reason to believe that you somehow contacted a different entity?

I have a minor suspicion that this might be the case. I'm just wondering if it is even a thing.

>>19042323
>i'm guessing from your post murder is fine as long as its right by what you feel
Then you guess wrong.

>don't go around thinking what your doing isn't black magic because it is
Well by your definition of "harmful" magic, yes murder would definitely constitute "black magic". I've never done that and I would not advocate for others to do it, though I also will not condemn them, I do not know their situation.

>Moral absolutitist, either right or wrong, you don't get to choose.
Ok so your morality system is absolutist, either a thing is good, or bad. Thank you for answering that. From where do you get this structure of what is good and bad? Is it theological? Who gets to determine what is good and bad?

>>19042337
if you don't understand what harm consists of then how I'm am going to be able to tell you- its basic stuff, you might as well ask me to define what the sun is or air, you see you wont just take it at face value and keep trying to get definitions, try a dictionary if you must or a decent book on the occult.
My morality doesn't come into it - your the one who thinks blackmagic is fine, you should looking at your own
And don't come all innocent with me you've been talking down and thinking your better than me all through the thread.
And you called me arrogant earlier !!!

>>19042319
then youll want to be looking up everything you can on Marbas, timing it properly and using an appropriate incense and everything, like the pastebin suggests.

>>19042339
Without getting too deep into how I feel the metaphysics of the thing works, I think having contacted something other than what you called is unlikely, however I think it is very likely that you may not have been calling the entity you thought you were. I know that sounds contradictory.

If you are concerned that you mistakenly called someone you did not intend to, or even if you feel like it wasn't what you expected it to be and are concerned... do your banishings, try again with sharper focus and more preparation.

>>19039341
>>19039223
>>19042345
again your bogging down on points, you know whats bad from our earlier discussion when you knew rape was bad, we don't have to go over this again but you insist, why cant you assume people follow the basic moral principles and protocols and instead keep asking for specific details?
Your saying murder is alright under some situations and circumstances nor would you condemn then which makes me question your authority on these matters - you are clearly compromised and cant make an accurate remark about this subject.
You admit to using blackmagic in these posts above -clearly there isn't a point in telling you to stop, your already lost anon

>>19042347
They are your terms, me asking you is an attempt to understand your position. Is a papercut "harm"? Its a physical injury. Is someones car running out of gas "harm"? Its certainly inconvenient, this is a very arbitrary word and I wanted some clarification on your opinion. If you want me to go by dictionary definition then what you are saying is that only magic which causes "physical injury especially that which is deliberately inflicted" is black magic. Thus many many curses which do not do that, are not black magic. I presume you do not believe this, and this is why these definitions are so important.

Why are you so hesitant to answer questions about your morality? You certainly seem to be interested in discussing it. I never said "black magic is fine" because I do not even know what that entails. All I have at the moment is a loose idea of what YOU believe black magic is, and were still figuring that out.

I have not been talking down to you I have been asking you questions about your beliefs, how is that condescension? If you're referring to me asking that you clean up your posts, that's just good manners.

I did not state that you were arrogant, I asked you if you were.

Can you please answer my questions? I'd like to continue this conversation and I can't until I know more about your beliefs.

>>19042360
>you know whats bad from our earlier discussion
No, I know what YOU think is bad. There is a difference.

>why cant you assume
I don't like to assume.

>instead keep asking for specific details?
I ask for details in an attempt to have a meaningful conversation with someone who's beliefs I do not share.

>Your saying murder is alright under some situations
I never said that.

> which makes me question your authority on these matters
I never claimed any kind of authority, Im trying to have a conversation with you.

>cant make an accurate remark about this subject.
I have made very few remarks, and the ones I have, I stand by. I have asked a great many questions about your beliefs in an attempt to understand why you believe them.

>You admit to using blackmagic in these posts above
I admit to using magic, whether or not it is black magic is an arbitrary thing.

>clearly there isn't a point in telling you to stop
Just as I would not ask you to stop believing what you believe, Im just curious why you believe the things you do.

>your already lost anon
Can you explain what you mean by "lost"?

>>19042366
>Why are you so hesitant to answer questions about your morality?
It isn't relevant to the discussion. I'm saying black magic is wrong ,i don't have to tell you anything more than this.
And if you don know what harm is then your just weaselling out of the thread rather than admit black magic is wrong.
Asking if someone is arrogant is the same as telling them - passive aggressively - I said this yesterday
Look if you want to think blak magic is alright then do so - but your wrong and I don't need to discuss my beliefs with you to tell you that.
Just type black magic into google or try one of the books in the library, there is bound to be something that will tell you - you'll get all the definition you need from that. If you don't know, you dont know, but please don't tell people
that it doesn't exist like you've been saying because you'll only end up dragging them down with you.

>>19042380
>I admit to using magic, whether or not it is black magic is an arbitrary thing.

>This is hard for me to answer. I only recall once or twice actually gearing something towards "harm" (as in injury) because that's usually overkill, or not conducive to the actual aim of the work.
However I will say that there have been a few times when I was less specific about the outcome in which harm may have occurred by a third party. There were also times that "harm" (as in injury or destruction of property) didn't happen.

No trying to cause harm or curse someone is a-ok in your books, when that's textbook black magic, you would have been tried as a witch anon, centuries ago and punished for this.
And you still harping around that you don't know what black magic is

>No, I know what YOU think is bad. There is a difference.

Then I guess I am to assume your some not a normal, decent member of society but some crazed, nichezzean madman who thinks you can do what you like?
Or lets assume the basics and assume your normal.
Oh you don't like to assume do you - so when some guy waves a gun in your face you don't like to assume hes going to hurt you, you dont like to assume but we all have to do it in our day to day lives.
>lost
Karma, three-foldlaw, what comes around goes around, you know the consequences of your foolmagicks?

>>19042388

>He hasn't satori'd yet

There is no distinction between good and evil, pleasure and pain, love and hate, etc., and thereby no standard by which one could say something is either permissible or impermissible.

Try adding an extra hour to your daily meditation practice, it helps.

>>19042424
your philosophy is that of madmen and edgy rebellious teens trying to rebel against society, school, their parents,etc

A couple library threads back a book was mentioned: Holmqvist's "Persuasion" I've looked around but can't seem to find it. Any ideas on where it might be?

>>19042432
https://www.scribd.com/document/344506753/Hypnotic-Influence-a-Master-s-Teppo-Holmqvist

This?

>>19042431

Before you talk about philosophy, familiarize yourself with the association fallacy. Logic is more work than most people think.

>>19042352
Nigga I can't get any sort of incense where I live, that's why I'm asking if it's as necessary as they say.

>>19042388
>It isn't relevant to the discussion.
If you don't think your beliefs on morality are relevant to the discussion, than I will disregard them.

>I'm saying black magic is wrong
noted and disregarded.

> if you don know what harm is
I literally gave the dictionary definition for it.

>Look if you want to think blak magic is alright then do so
Again I do not need your permission, and I cant think "black magic is alright" because I dont believe it exists.

> but your wrong
I assume your justification for believing this is moral in nature and thus I will disregard it.

>there is bound to be something that will tell you
These are all arbitrary definitions.

>but please don't tell people that it doesn't exist
I will voice my opinion where I please

>>19042423
>trying to cause harm or curse someone is a-ok in your books
I never said that, you never asked me my opinion, you made presumptions.

> textbook black magic
please point me to this all knowing textbook.

>you would have been tried as a witch anon, centuries ago and punished for this.
Fortunately for me it's not the bronze age, unfortunately for you, you live in a pluralistic society.

>you don't know what black magic is
I know individual peoples opinions of what black magic is, unfortunately they're all different so theres not exactly a consensus and no, I still don't know.

>Then I guess I am to assume your some not a normal, decent member of society
That's a rather rude thing to say. All I said was I know what YOU think is bad, and there is a difference between knowing what IS bad, and knowing what another person THINKS is bad. I dont think that makes me a bad person.

>nichezzean
tried googling this like you suggested, no hits. What does this mean? Do you mean nietzschean? Once again I never stated that.

>assume your normal.
What is normal?

>Karma, three-foldlaw, what comes around goes around
Dont believe in karma or three-fold, sorry. Cause and effect is obvious, but not relevant.

>>19042453
incense can be many things, unless you live in like... a vaccuum you can probably assemble some, look up the correspondences for local plants and make some. Nothing in magic is strictly "necessary" but especially when working with powerful spirits, there are certain things which are considered proper form, Id recommend not skimping out.

>>19042453

The incense isn't really necessary and isn't even part of many older manuscripts on evocation. It can be helpful both visually and with scent, but scented candles are easy to come by if that's what you're looking for. Some people say that the smoke helps with visual recognition but that can be done just as easily with a scrying mirror or bowl of water (or, if you're practiced, without tools).
Really most of the ritual pieces that people talk about aren't necessary at all. Get better at leaving your body (ideally astral travel but OBEs on the material plane can be useful) and you'll be able to contact whoever/whatever you want, whenever you want, for whatever reason. So the entire evocation process can be subverted and no tools are required if you're willing to do that kind of work.

Also, the circle doesn't protect you. Nor does the hexagram or the pentagram. You protect yourself, the symbols are just a visual aid.

>>19042468
Would this work fine for a substitute >>19042275


>>19042479
So you're saying I protect myself using faith?

>>19042444
Yes that one thank you!

>>19042485
I didn't understand your post. Would what be fine for a substitute?

>>19042489
Making an incense burner out of a sauce pan

>>19042494
an incense burner is a heat resistant object, a heat barrier to prevent burning to the surface its sitting on, a coal or hot object, and incense.

If you want to have an engraved super magickal special 200$ incense burner, go for it, but I don't think it matters as much. Now granted, my magical practice tends towards the practical, so Im used to this stuff, and in my experience its been a perfectly acceptable substitute.

The idea here is to set a "mood" and control the energies and focus during the ritual. If you miss steps or fail to set that intent and focus, it can fail. Anythign that works towards that goal is good, anything that works away from it is bad. If not having incense wont effect your focus, forget it, if having a saucepan as an incense burner will distract you, forget it. Its all about the intent (for directing the energy or entity), the effort put in (to show dedication and to help focus will), and the mindset. These rituals and these tools are designed to help get you there, but it's all "optional". Just don't be surprised it failed if you don't put in the effort and care.

>>19042479
>The incense isn't really necessary and isn't even part of many older manuscripts on evocation
But it is part of Lemegeton hence the use of the censer as a locus for scrying.

>>19042485

I wouldn't exactly say faith, but that can be effective. If you have faith in higher protection it can help you. The hexagram itself isn't anything more than a symbolic representation of YHVH, just as OM is only a symbolic representation of Brahman. Using those tools, God-names, symbols, etc. can help you direct your will with confidence.

As far as my working theory goes (based on personal practice) confidence in your success is the most important part of any magick. If you don't really believe it will work, it may work, but less likely. If you believe it will work but doubt your ability to perform it correctly, it may work, but still unlikely. The ritual tools are mostly just visual aids that help instill that confidence in the magician, whether the deal is with projection (most magick and evocation) or reception (invocations, divination, stuff like that).

Some people say it's "will" that makes it happen. As a martial artist, I have to disagree. It doesn't matter how much I want to break a stack of brick with my hands. If I'm not confident in my ability to do it, I'll fail and probably break my hand.

>>19042531

Not really sure how to interpret Lemegeton. Waite's symbols are different than Crowley's. The instructions, invocations, etc. differ between prints. Sure, there's a lot of similarity, but in at least one print of Goetia I've read there is no mention of incense at all. Moreover, there's conflicting information between books in the Lemegeton even within the same printing most of the time, and it makes even discussing Lemegeton as a formal system a bit confusing.

I've never had success with that method (scrying through censer) and I don't use it in my practice, though I've had plenty of success with evoking specific entities in Ars Goetia. Que sera sera.

>>19042568
>Waite's symbols are different than Crowley's.
The manuscript they both used is/was damaged, and both of them tried to truncate the sigils to make them fit in circles. This is why Henson's edition scores higher than Peterson's edition, imho - it assimilates more of the full text tradition than Peterson's faithful reproduction of a single MSS.

>differ between prints
Lemegeton proper has a pretty coherent text tradition but yes the Solomonic materials writ large are diverse.

>scrying through censer
IJS the manuscripts imply that's what you're supposed to be using.

>>19042584

I may have been misinformed, but I was under the impression that Ars Goetia was based in part on a number of earlier works and that the rest of Lemegeton wasn't even necessarily written by the same author(s). Are all of the symbols in the Henson edition from the same manuscript?

>>19042624
>Are all of the symbols in the Henson edition from the same manuscript?
They are from three mansucripts.

>Ars Goetia was based in part on a number of earlier works
The main structure of Ars Goetia as we usually understand it can be traced back to 1565 and the Heptameron. But it's a fairly uniform in operative flow, which can be seen in the side by side Peterson does.

>Lemegeton wasn't even necessarily written by the same author(s).
This is pretty clear in the manuscript record.

In either case, my point is that Lemegeton and it's current incarnation of Ars Goetia has a pretty decent chain of manuscripts that are in essential agreement, but this starts to not become the case when we add in the rest of the Solomonic tradition (so like Verum, the Nordic Solomonic grimoires, etc., etc.)

>>19041892
regardless its that same christfag.
why should it make any difference if any other fag is walking in to impersonate and continue the level of trolling faggotry. there is no coherent argument it's just some bullshit christ doctrines over and over like a parrot, whilst calling every other belief bad. this ain't /christ/

Whoa! The auts are going off the charts in this thread!

What practices/measures, if any, do people here take to extend their health/life? I don't meant diet and such things necessarily, but I don't mean to exclude it either if it relates to spiritual practice. I'
m interested. Thanks.

>>19033941
What's the difference between the Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram and the Greater?

>>19042863
Greater is keyed to a specific planet.

>>19042914
To elaborate:

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Lesser_Ritual_of_the_Hexagram

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Greater_Ritual_of_the_Hexagram

>>19041898
Wasn't to that question though, was it? Not sure what this has to do with the fucking question anyway.

>>19042932
>Never got any answers. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked again.

>check the last thread, you did get 1reply

>(screeching)

File: 1483685734726.png (24KB, 684x737px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 684x737px

>>19033941
Is it true demons can erase the chalk used to make the circle?

>>19043022
I think if you make it properly you will be A-OK.

>>19043022
Depends on how afraid you are and how strong the spirit is.
I for example still have trouble summoning Python since he is a primal earth spirit.
He starts giving me sharp chest pain and I have to banish him.
I figured out I don't really need him, but it's a good way to test your limits..

>>19043041
Again, back to this; what's the best size for the circle? I know the pastebin says 22 ft, but other sources have told me 10 ft.

>>19043087
I guess whatever you think best. The pastebin also links to like, 5 translations of the Goetia ranked from "best" to "worst" so there's always those for reference.

File: fig153-4.jpg (35KB, 375x512px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 375x512px

>>19033941
The pastebin says I only need 1 hexagram yet pic related shows I need 4. What the heck?!

>>19043174
Different circles for different purposes.
Do more research.

>>19043174
>"Once you're done with the setup, it should look like this:"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/img/fig153-4.jpg

>You must be at least THIS literate to use the /sum/ pastebin

is there a kik group or something? enlight me

>>19043194
But from what the pastebins been telling me, it'd look nothing like that. Or at least, a very watered down version.

>>19038300
any recommended books about this, or links to good literature?

is there an /omg/ discord?

>>19043204
No. There is a 4chan thread, though, that has been extant for >4 years, and there are regulars who come and go. Ape is the host/whatever the word is for it of the thread

>>19043209
Look, if you can't figure this out without hand holding, maybe you need to step back and reasess your situation. Everything you need is linked right there in the pastebin. Other than a few minor inconsistencies which any literate person can overcome, it's all Right. Fucking. There.

>>19043228
If there are inconsistencies then why doesn't someone fix them?