>Temple of Solomon the King
>Mesmer's Lair (hypnosis, hypnotherapy, some neuropsych, brainwashing resources)
>Random library of the week
This is a torrent file for a collection of books that is over 450gigs, it contains books on topics from aliums to ghosts to wicca to voodoo to the western esoteric that we all love. No quality control on what got added, and rather a lot of duplicate material, but no matter what topic you're interested in, you'll find something related to it in there.
>Henshin A Go Go Baby!
has anyone here been listening to the encyclopedia hermetica? it's basically a history of world with ritual magic as its pivot
interesting, i'm about to give it a listen. thanks anon
It's an extraordinarily large index. I'm using utorrent and it hangs for about a minute when loading. If the program doesn't outright crash just let it load even if it takes a while. If it is crashing and shutting itself down your comp may be to slow or may need to try a different client.
No but I'll check it out.
I see crab or two men. What you see is what's on your mind.
Nope, you can't make them do anything they don't already want to do. If the will isn't there you're staying dry boned.
Any 1hish listens online, which aren't complete newage babble? Anything goes, really. Hermeticsm prefered.
Can I jump in with some questions? Tried asking on a sigil thread that just got shitposted and died yesterday.
I'm new to this, started into magick one week ago, so please be kind.
Are there any rules on the construction of sigils? I'm an artist by profession, so working with images comes naturally. After drawing my first couple of sigils, (I haven't projected any yet, still charging,) I found that for me it's more natural to look at the shapes formed in between the lines, breaking them up and arranging them in a string, connecting the shapes at corners. Would any advice against this?
Also, what other ways of charging than to draw?
Also, should I do banishings before charging and projecting, as well as anything related to meditation?
>Would any advice against this?
It's not that its "wrong" definitively, its just that the series of lines sprawled out like that is very difficult to concentrate on as a whole, makes it hard or impossible to charge or focus on.
Could you for instance, easily recreate that complex stringy sigil from memory without looking at the original? Even though you yourself created it?
In the mega, under chaos magic, there is folder called frater UD which has a book on sigil magic you may want to read.
But anything the guidelines for construction are very loose. There is nothing inherently magical about the process, it's more supposed to be a representation. So you can do with them as you'd like. Looks neat btw.
Are there any communities that aren't complete bullshit, or aimed towards beginners? Another good thing is that they should be modern. Or do I have to join yahoo?
Well, then it's not very 'psychic' and not the kind of mind control I'm asking about.
And I'm sure you can gauge the fullest extent of my charisma from shitpost on a Guatemalan Civil War Forum.
unfortunately, magic and hypnosis are not science fiction brain control waves man.
Honestly if you want your dick sucked, the best two spells are "50 bucks and a hooker" or "flowers dinner and a lot of patience"
Provided they already like you in that way, yes.
Keep in mind it's more about emotional attitude than about thinking rationally. Which means that if there's even a hint of disgust or fear in them, they won't do what you're asking.
That's irrelevant. The whole idea with forgetting a sigil is that you're making it unconscious at the same time.
Chaos magic is nothing more than misunderstood self-hypnosis.
But you could use low doses of Ambien or Ativan, or even Xanax, with direct suggestion. Benzos work as well, but they're much less legal in comparison.
Keep in mind the goal is to make the experience traumatic for the subject, so they dissociate from these strong emotions, which makes them more susceptible to manipulation.
Not necessarily. There's Influence, and then there's Mind Control. The latter includes brainwashing, which we're just talking about.
Or just going up to a girl, introducing yourself as a hypnotist, showing her a few fun things, and when she asks what your interest is, you just go with "Oh you know, I do erotic hypnosis for a living, want to see what it's like?"
(no, I've never tried, but I've heard from multiple people that it does universally work, as long as they get good rapport with the "fun" part of it, as that makes the women more comfortable and trusting with the hypnotist - a side-effect of hypnosis, there was a study about it in IJCEH)
>The whole idea with forgetting a sigil
you have to know it to forget it
> it does universally work, as long as they get good rapport with the "fun" part of it
which will require a measure of charisma or personality, otherwise when you say "fun" she hears "brutal rape imminent" and there goes your rapport.
>you have to know it to forget it
The moment you are drawing it, you know it.
It's enough for all practical purposes. Attaching strong emotions to it is also a good way of motivating the subconscious.
>which will require a measure of charisma or personality, otherwise when you say "fun" she hears "brutal rape imminent" and there goes your rapport.
Ayyyy gurl I'm Phil Imma hypnotist you look like you're fun, wanna see something amazing?
Aite stick your hands our straight, palms facing one another, focus your eyes on the space between them, imagine that those hands are magnets, huge magnets, pulling your hands together (you can lightly tap her hands so she gets the message on a somatic level as well), that's right notice what's happening yaa gurl just focus on that space, and the more your focus the more your hands move closer, and closer, and closer, and when they touch
SLEEP (you want to say this in a commanding but gentle tone, quite loudly for a tad bit of shock, lightly pushing her hands down and tapping the back of her head - not a lot, just enough for her to hear her skull tapped)
(Also "when they touch" is what you say LITERALLY a second before they do touch)
Good, deeper, deeper, relax more and more. Of course you know you're not sleeping, your eyes can just be closed, and you can relax both your body and your mind.
Now, in a moment, I'm going to snap my fingers, you're going to open your eyes, and your name will be entirely gone from your memory, when someone asks your name, you'll realize it's gone, and it's going to be the funniest thing to you. Do you understand?
>she nods usually, some say "yeth" in a tired manner, some actually speak clearly, but that's rare
Then you basically snap your fingers, and ask her for her name.
You can of course go with less demanding things, like catalepsy, giving them orgasms, good emotions, changing the colors they see, and so on and so on.
#thelema @ Rizon
Talk to Anthony.
Also Ape if he's got time for interwebbing, but he's mostly around here far as I know.
I also don't remember if GD was in the IRC, like ever. But Anthony should satisfy your desires.
>The moment you are drawing it, you know it.
Fair enough, I suppose that works, maybe its just an aesthetic thing with me, if it works for anon then thats awesome.
>that whole scenario
That entire thing requires more personality and charisma than a lot of anons have frankly. You may feel that its simple, but for a lot of people I don't think it is. That whole technique only works if you can avoid dropping your spaghetti or giving off serial killer vibes in the initial approach and chat.
All it requires is the ability to talk without stuttering while smiling at the same time.
That is LITERALLY a basic human function.
CHILDREN do it ALL THE TIME.
Stop making excuses. Anyone can do this.
>All it requires is the ability to talk without stuttering while smiling at the same time.
As I said, something I do not think most anons have the charisma to do.
Also Im not making excuses for myself, Im not the one who wants to hypnotize women to suck my dick.
Thanks for answers, I'll look up the book when not on the phone. I guess I'll have to simplify my sigils, although I think I'll use this type of design in my artistic work, as I think it's a good way to produce abstract marks and patterns.
On that subject, would sigils in theory become more charged if I used them in my paintings - put them out in the world so to speak (I parallel this to how the most powerful corporations in the world have the most recognizable logos, freely available to all at all times.) I know that some magicians prefer to burn or otherwise destroy their sigils after projecting them, but my inclination is to keep a visual catalog of them, preferably hanging in other people's homes.
Another thing, you said that I should be able to visualise my sigils, but isn't the point to forget? You mean forget their meaning, but not their design?
I'm still wondering how to best charge, so any words on this is much appreciated. (I will read up on it myself, won't bother you lot with my newfag enquiries much, but I don't have access to a computer at all times, and I want to set my mind on my first sigils asap.)
>I guess I'll have to simplify my sigils
Do what works for you. I was in the wrong to correct you in that way. Thats my personal opinion, Surgo was correct there's no reason for you to simplify them if theyre working. And putting your stuff into your art sounds like a very unique and "you" technique, dont change that because some asshole on 4chan (me) told you it wasnt right.
Greetings, honored magi. I was wondering if you could help me. I made a statement in another thread (can't link to it, because I'mon my phone) and I want to hear how much off I am.
"From my point of view, the LHP is the path that unlocks ones potential, because it puts the user in the center of the universe, while the RHP is the path that puts that potential to use by being in synch with the universe. Like in all things, there has to be a balance, and one can not walk only on of the paths, because if one doesn't know himself (LHP), how can he know the secrets of the universe (RHP)."
You're standing in place.
Basically the distinction RHP/LHP functions on two levels:
One is social: RHP holds to social norms, LHP transgresses.
One is internal: RHP lives in austerity, LHP takes part in everything.
Get a good surgeon then?
Yeah well, my e-mail's firstname.lastname@example.org.
For an overview of how I work and what we'd do:
The one thing I'll ask of you in return is that you write a self-assessment in a month or three after we finish our sessions (shouldn't take more than 2-4).
>His planet is Venus, but he's a lust Demon. Is it OK to summon him on Tuesday?
Provided it's on the hour of Venus and she's got good aspects, yes.
I'm gettin a real strong 'girl ugly' vibe off you, which is similar to the 'girl fat' vibe. Which means you're not actually ugly (or fat as the case may be) you just have a distorted sense of yourself as being ugly or fat.
And hey maybe Im wrong, maybe you're ugly, but you can own that shit, a good attitude and and how you carry yourself is infinitely better than physical appearance. Most people will take an ugly person with good bearing over a pretty person with an ugly demeanor any day.
>How do I unfuck my speech patterns?
Talk slower. It's fine to take pauses to think.
>How do I become a smooth talker?
Be confident, basically.
Confidence is the lack of anxiety.
So basically: chill, brofam.
What should a circle of protection look like? The psycho naught book only has a diagram of the goetic star. The page mentioning a protection circle says it needs 4 sigil in each direction.
Assuming I wanted to know more about the Occult/Magic from pure standpoint of curiosity, is there a booklist of essentials for beginners?
I might just thumb through the mega links but I just like reading actual physical books.
Never made it all the way through naught, but if you've got your options it's hard to go wrong with powers invoked in the lbr
I love the feel of turning pages as well. Hmm if you've got chose just one I'd go with middle pillar by regardie or one year manual by the same.
Pay surgo to woo you? Really though mindfulness will do you fine you don't want to play with any of the books in the mega.
guys I want help, ever since I can remember, I've wanted to be more (or less, depending on how you look at it) than human, a monster, how can I go about this, and can I do so in accordance with my beliefs (asatru)?
I can pick up multiples, son. I have library card. Assuming books on this subject are even in most libraries.
Well what are you waiting for?
Self-hypnosis for constant comfort & relaxation, alternatively get a hypnotherapist to work this through with you.
Also depending on what exactly is wrong with your neurology, hypnotherapy might be able to help.
Anyone has tried sigil magic and such? Reading Liber MMM at the moment, I'm a bit confused about how to "charge" sigils.
Youre supposed to draw them, then forget them and desrtoy them; and they charge on their own in the subconscious as you go around life?
Then, you're supposed to banish them with laughter. How the fuck laughing will erase a sigil from my subconscious mind? How much do I have to laugh? like a normal joke? a whole day?
However you want, it's Chaos magick. Most folks use some combination of orgasm and yoga/meditation.
I don't know where Carroll yanked this meme out of, but how do you keep a coherent record working like that?
Banish by laughter is a simple suggestion. CM is not a totalized structure of magick. Moreover, the purpose is of tension release, read up on some theories of laughter.
I still dunno how I feel about Greer, but thanks, tho.
There's a text ...somewhere, Kabbalah or AA folder on the neuroscience of Kabbalistic practice.
What's with the threads these last few days? Quality seems to have declined.
>I don't know where Carroll yanked this meme out of, but how do you keep a coherent record working like that?
Forget means basically "stop being conscious of". You can still return this to consciousness at a later date.
>Quality seems to have declined.
it's a general not a library thread, and the chaos magic and witchcraft generals are down so this thread is acting as a catch all at the moment.
Sure, I just find it hard to buy that you're going to 'forget' something to the point that you don't notice when it comes to fruition or fails.
I think Carroll would have cleared up, what, working on three generations of confusion, by just saying "don't dwell on it".
Didn't even notice none were up. I might make a few WC threads now that I'm balls deep in Chumbley's stuff.
>you're going to 'forget' something to the point that you don't notice when it comes to fruition or fails.
Well, "comfortably not thinking" about it works just as well.
It's the marker of deep hypnosis, as well, by the way.
Yeah, I'm sure there are tons more but not much that I've decided to review for posting. You should be able to do reasonably fine with those plus maybe some more tradition specific material.
How long did it take you to think of that'n?
DKoS is more like a guide to the actual process of purgation in devotional mysticism than a guide on how to pray.
Read up on Centring Prayer and Fr. Thomas Keating, that'll get you started down the right road if you're looking to get into the mystical side of Catholicism
>What's with the threads these last few days? Quality seems to have declined.
Funniest post on this thread tbph famalam.
>why are my threads about my nonexistent powers that I failed to gain after years of practice that I have absolutely nothing to show for not as good as they used to be?
I think everyone caught on to what a dead end it is.
>Are there any rules on the construction of sigils?
None that you can't bend.
>Also, should I do banishings before charging and projecting, as well as anything related to meditation?
Whatever will efficiently lube up your mind for the magic to happen.
Also look up Gordon's Ultimate Guide to Sigil Magic and associated posts (on his blog, Runesoup).
>Like, come on, people can't REALLY be that autistic.
Has anyone gotten their 3rd printing of Azoetia yet? It was supposed to start shipping out on the 31st of January.
It's in the library, family.
The sad thing is, it'll be snapped up straight away by resellers, who will sell it for $$$$$$$$, 99% of which will be to people who never actually use it.
Xoanon's business strategy of 'no, this is 2spooky4u, we're only printing like 4 of it' is genius for making money, but totally shit for their stated aim of spreading CS knowledge
Eh I don't blame them. They know it's going to get scanned anyway. And that the people who do spend, spend big. I'll drop over 500 a year on my collection. That I hadn't heard about cs till you guys is the problem on their part. If I thought it was worth while preordering for 50+ isn't an issue. But buying from a scalper after the fact for 400 ain't happening.
>They know it's going to get scanned anyway
The weird thing is, it actually hadn't been until fairly recently, they did a really good job of not letting it leak online.
I remember looking ages ago and finding the Azoetia, but literally nothing else- the library is far and away the most comprehensive source for their stuff around.
Yeah, 50 or so would be the MAX I'd pay for a copy- it would actually be nice to have a hard copy of DBoE, 800 pages is pretty unwieldy in a pdf.
CS have this thing about books being talismans though- think of the image of a medieval magician with a big, old, dusty grimoire, that's kind of the vibe they go for. Hence the reason they don't produce many, and are dickheads about scans
>CS have this thing about books being talismans though
Do you think it matters? I'm sure it has some impact on psychological level, but is it to such extent that it can affect results of practice?
Haven't tried it, so no idea.
Honestly, judging from the DBoE so far, some stuff that we've reckoned would be fairly run-of-the-mill has actually been pretty spooky, so who the fuck knows, maybe it has an impact.
Given that Ape and I are doing it with a pdf, it doesn't seem to be game-breaking without the book anyway, it works just fine. Though I could see how having a cool, spooky hardbound book would add to the atmosphere.
"no really, my product, that I am selling, is inherently magical on its own, you NEED to physically purchase it or it wont work fully"
genius marketing either way.
No. It doesn't matter. A talisman's a talisman in electronic format or not. Just because I have a planetary sigil saved in my downloads file doesn't mean it's rendered powerless.
Besides, a good whyzzzrd is going to be copying things down into their own record, arguably a much more potent talisman.
One of the 14 stellar-talismanic copies was selling on Ebay for like 25k.
Tbqh, I doubt they actually make that much bank, given how small the releases are, it's mainly the resellers who make the big money.
Not sure how much they sell for direct from Xoanon. I'd imagine it's expensive, but nothing like what Ape is mentioning for resellers >>17342627
It'll be interesting to see if we can produce some kind of reduced, tweaked version of DBoE that works just as well, but wouldn't fall foul of copyright. It'd mean it could be genuinely spread as a pdf, without publishers freaking out.
Would certainly solve the problem of like 90% books like DBoE ending up on the shelves of people who'll leaf through them but never use them
can books of this type be vanity published via Lulu or Blurb? If so, problem solved. Make your own physical real world talismanic super magical book that will collect dust on the shelf and make you feel like merlin or whatever
I don't mind reading from a screen.
>direct from Xoanon
JD Holmes, known for not jacking up the price, has copies for 480someodd bucks, I think that's what the normative editions sold for. Size, construction, content, I'd say it'd be genuinely worth 200$ but I don't plan on getting a copy anytime soon. I'd prefer Satyr's Sermon or Tantraloka for my next purchase.
Redacted versions have already been published swapping out entity names for more conventional objects of worship. Came out in like 2012 under some garbage press selling way overpriced swill.
>I don't mind reading from a screen.
Nor do I, I'm just saying for those who actually want a physical copy of the book, do not feel like paying 480+ dollars, I think you can get a nice hardcover print to your specifications from lulu, up to 850 pages I think, under 50 bucks, shipped to your door. You provide pdf jpgs and cashmoney, they do the rest.
No I dig and at that point I'd probably just print it myself bit by bit from some library and break down the individual rites to their own folders in my filing cabinet...which is exactly what I've started doing. From there you can really stitch and bind yourself for half the cost of Lulu if you don't mind the pain in the ass work and less than aesthetic pages.
You can publish them whatever way you want.
Not too familiar with those services, but if they're bookbinders (and willing to sell copyrighted shit), then yeah, it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than the prices Ape is quoting >>17342681
You could get it and then consecrate it, if you like. Same deal, pretty much. I'll probably do that once I have a stable working grimoire from this, though that will probably take a few cycles to get nailed down.
Tbqh, so long as we have the library, we'll get by. If I decide to ride the Cain Train for another year there's no way I'll be doing it Chumbley's way anyway (I'll ideally have a functional working grimoire by then), so not a whole lot of point in buying it.
I have on my wishlist several books that cost north of $100, and that have no scans available. Unfortunately I have done a careful Internet scan and for some of them there's a single copy available in some antiquary, so I can't even ask for scans, if I do so the hard copy might be bought by someone.
Got the entirety of HU printed from an internet cafe for like 10 euro, not too bad.
I worked out the cost of printing the entire book, it'd be something like 140 euro- significantly cheaper than buying it. Hell, you could print like five or six copies and it still might be cheaper
If you're in the UK, certain universities get copies of every book published in the UK by default, so some of them might have it. Often they're cool with you photographing it or scanning it, though the latter might cost a bit.
Im kind of fond of copying relevant stuff into my own blank books by hand, feels more legit that way anyway so I agree. If a printed book feels legit, a handwritten book is even more so.
>You can publish them whatever way you want.
I was more questioning whether lulu or blurb would print copyrighted materials or if theyd even care.
if they're that rare, yeah that's a problem, I miss the little antiquarian seller that used to be in my town they shuttered up about six or seven years ago, they had some real gems. The whole climate controlled security system glass lock box things and all that, real museum pieces. Shame no one appreciates a book enough to keep them open.
Is it less magical if the device I read my secret forbidden lore from, also plays angry birds?
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm copying things down by hand too:
The practices and regular rites are all being entered by hand. I'm out past SABA and starting preliminary notes on BHA.
The actual yearly rites though are just being printed out because that's a whole fuck of a lot of material to be copying. Maybe if I were a NEET, but I'm not. Again I have no issue reading from a screen but when it comes to mobile devices I like keeping one dedicated to occulty shit. Makes things simple.
Ah, noice. Send me a pic when you're finished, I'd be interested to see it. What's it used for again? I haven't read the Tools section in ages
Gonna do Black Moon tonight, bit late, but actually, the delay felt right, I've noticed this about the rites so far.
Oracle is proving correct as well- new job opportunity opened up today, as I'd expected (but not the one I'd expected). Roy des Espees is still somewhat unclear- either me moving out of the Dark Night of Sense (seemed to be lifted somewhat today), or me just having to fight for the new job somewhat, but we'll see.
Ah sorry, I see what you mean.
My guess is probably not, as they'd be making a profit from it, but it's worth a try anyway, it's something I'd be interested to know myself.
Hendecarch Rosary seems to be an almost purely talismanic rosary meant to embody the standardization of DBoE around the number 11. The necklace is simply 121 snake vertebrae. I've got them and my Hallowing Rosary on sinew.
The Hallowing Rosary is 171 beads, 14 white bone, one black, one skull, one black, and 14 more, repeated ten times, with a single 'special' bead, in mine a rabbit vertebra. It's for mantra. I'm waiting on a small Gibeon meteorite bead to complete yet another rosary of 81 beads, mostly precious stone, also seemingly used as a devotional talisman rather than one for actually doing rounds of mantra.
Some books are consecrated. Trying to do this for several books would make the device-talisman "schizophrenic", so to say.
And there's the problem of American books. Librarians go to the point of registering scan/photocopy requests in a centralized database to verify if someone is not trying to get a full copy of a book.
The books I'm getting are on, uh, most people here would call them cryptids, but they are mostly about things that are not "fleshy". If I call them "folklore books" that would be a better description.
Example: a book that had a small number of copies made by a private press. Less than a fifth of those are available on WorldCat. I'm contacting a relative of the late author to get one of the copies this person owns.
>14 white bone, one black, one skull, one black, and 14 more
Well now that's interesting.
I had heard that DBoE was borrowing from the diaspora, this is clearly inspired by the similar Palo tools... Does this stuff crop up elsewhere? Im starting to get interested.
Though, I must say, it's really hard to tell where the tantra influence ends and the Afro-Carib influence starts. Methinks it's largely confined to superstructure, the way circles are built and kept, the crossbones, the use of snake vertebrae with is, as you mention, obviously fucking Yoruba derived. I guess a nearly seamless synchretism was his aim but it's frustrating trying to study the book figuring out where to point the finger at a given practice.
In any case, the Hallowing rosary goes over:
>start at special, remember first ritual
>first black, special name of qayin
>skull, a common CS chant
>second black, generic oration
Then for each of the 14 white bones, you chant the name of a given star in Draco's image, alongside a special mantic syllable used in ritual. Then you repeat the cycle for each of the ten syllables.
I so no direct use for the snake vertebrae other than as a focus point. I have all these because I need 8 snake vertebrae for the third rosary I mentioned, which seems to be tied to every single named entity in DBoE, and I'm going to use it as an excuse to attach a meteorite which the text calls for.
DBoE borrows from everywhere you could possibly imagine.
Voodoo seems to have been an influence on it via Peter Hamilton-Giles
Here's an interview where he talks about it:
Voodoo actually has less of an impact on the system than you'd expect, but it's there. Iranian and Indian influence are a huge huge part of it too.
>the use of snake vertebrae
Actually I was referring to the necklace/rosary which is a huge part of Palo Mayombe (not so much of voodoo) in the various necklaces (collare de la bandera or de eleggua if you want a search term to look into others) The mantric use is interesting, I wonder if Palo uses them the same way.
I imagine that the snake vertebrae are there as a reminder of draco or dragony snakey things naturally.
this interview is fucking fascinating. I will admit that I usually steer clear of "high magic" stuff, Im a rootworker who likes their work very tangible, curio and simple, but this Column stuff is very interesting.
Whats in the library? anything?
Oh yeah, CS are interesting bastards, Ape and I have been obsessing over DBoE since around October, probably before.
I also started a wiki as kind of a way to keep track of it, but I haven't updated it in ages. It doesn't have any of the interpretations of the material we've developed yet, it needs a pretty serious overhaul: dboe.wikia.com
>Whats in the library? anything?
In terms of CS? A good chunk of their books.
In more general terms? Probably the biggest free library of occult material available anywhere, compiled by our very own Ape
>In terms of CS? A good chunk of their books.
yeah I specifically meant this stuff, Ive already downloaded a bunch of other stuff, thanks to the contributors and moderators on that
>I also started a wiki as kind of a way to keep track of it
I stumbled into that already looking it up online, thanks for that as well.
Like I said I may not get into it too much because Im not one for high ritual, but after reading that interview I grabbed the DBoE and the Afflicted Mirror because its too interesting not to look into since he's talking about most of my favorite subjects, voodoo, the diaspora, cunning folk traditions, etc.
Is this A.A., O.T.O. G.D. levels of intricate or is it more practical?
Thanks for the heads up, interested in reading more about it all.
Haven't actually read the Afflicted Mirror let me know if it's any good.
As for intricacy.... That's an interesting question. Chumbley material is dense, verbose and obscure in the extreme, and not only takes a lot of GD/AA formulae as it's foundation (given chumbleys background in the Typhonian OTO, among other traditoons), it actually extends it.
Having said that, the material appears to produce results reasonably quickly if practiced according to Chumbleys example initially, so it's also pretty practical I guess. Judging by some of the experiences Ape and I have been having (dreams, freakouts, coincidences), it seems to be pretty potent stuff, especially when you don't expect it.
The DBoE is the second major cycle in the CS corpus, the first is the Azoetia work, which focuses on dreams. Basic practices are fairly straightforward, but the latter stages seem extremely obscure. The third and final volume of the Trimagisterion hasn't been announced yet, but it's speculated that its the Auraeon, which deals with self-initiation. Chumbley died before finishing it, so supposedly Schulke & co are trying to finish it off atm
>Judging by some of the experiences Ape and I have been having (dreams, freakouts, coincidences), it seems to be pretty potent stuff, especially when you don't expect it.
Huh, interesting. Are you cool with giving examples or is that a no-no?
That one is actually first on my list since he referenced it specifically in that interview. Him saying that he met with a vodou priest talking about dream contact with lwa hooked me immediately as that was my initiatory experience before I even knew anything at all about the subject.
When I say practical I guess I mean low magic. Ive studied GD/hermetics extensively and I understand the concepts, it's just not my flavor. I like herbalism, rootwork and other sympathetic traditions because they feel a bit more jazz. I have time for rootwork, I dont have time for seven day long abra-melin tier virgins in white robes ritual stuff.
Either way CS is speaking to me heavily so Ill have to read more into it, thanks for all the input and help.
My crystal ball transmits nothing but a huge reptilian eye, complete with pupil dilation and tracking. I've been hit with glossolalia at least three times, once in Enochian. The dreams have been odd and comprehensive, it'd take forever to go through them here, but the point would rather be that it's been almost 15 years since I'd had regularly significant dreams, speaking in terms of occultism, and nothing I'd tried could fix it until I started working DBoE. Hell, some of the yogic styled routines are doing better than the core ancient material w/r/t Pranayama.
It's a mixed bag but thus far the material does what it says on the label. More intense and goal oriented material is coming, though, so we'll see.
FWIW one of the major Godforms in DBoE, though not immediately, is Semyaza, or the entity from the Book of Enoch who taught rootcutting. CS's material on potions and plants is top notch. It's not something I'd been heavily invested in, I'm practicing this stuff to help a wee bit on that end. So far I'm just working the 8 plants local to me required for the circle, I imagine that cycle will get stronger when everything's not dead, I can go out hunting maybe for some materials mentioned in 777.
Well sounds interesting more or less. I'm hoping to start working through Azoetia when I get all the shit together for it. It is VERY content dense but it can be digested a bit at a time. Been taking notes while saving up for certain things.
This might make me sound like a moron (but I did buy a physical copy of the book so maybe I am haha) but 'Skull of Man - an ancestral urn'. Does he mean a literal skull of a man, an urn, or some sort of ancestral relic? I would usually take it literally but he has made it very clear that the book is mostly metaphor and what not.
Know you may not have done Az but if you were able to get the stuff together for DoE then I'm hoping you could shed some light on it.
>CS's material on potions and plants is top notch
where is that material? Azoetia?
> 'Skull of Man - an ancestral urn'
I haven't even read any of it but I have to assume that the symbolism is whats important rather than the actual hollowed out skull of an ancestor for an urn.
>a human skull
>multiple literal "vessels" (I'm using an old liquor bottle, I'd made some stoneware by hand but the fucking people in the ceramics dept. didn't fire it in time for me to actually use it).
The Skull is symbolic of Chumbley's internal myth cycles. The idea is that when Qayin first started using magic, he used either Hevel or Abel's skull as "vessel" by which to charge and keep his egregore of practice. DBoE goes into WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYyyyyyyyy more detail with all that stuff.
My skull just arrived some days ago.
I understand the first half of Azoetia but the second takes off in ways I don't -grok-. It's related to DBoE's ritual year, but how, I'm uncertain without learning his sigils by heart. That said, DBoE really explains the tau and crossroads used in Black Oracle (X/T).
Viridarium Umbris and Veneficum, and to some extent Ars Philtron for 'potions'. Veneficum is probably the most generalist and useful.
You can indeed substitute with wood or stone or a medical skull, but I think having an actual human skull on your altar does a whole hell of a lot to focus transgression.
Nothing like pressing your lips to clod bone to remind you of your own mortality.
Where do you live?
>Hevel or Abel's
Hevel or Adam, pardon.
The orations don't make it actually clear, as Hevel's bones pop up elsewhere other than in the skull bowl.
Think of it like Vajrayana/Tantric Saivism. Given the skull serves so many functions, you can swap out a sub, but a human head's ideal.
Nice! Thanks man. I'm currently haggling with a guy on ebay but the skull they have isn't that great of quality (chipped and has a crack in it). Definitely will consider this listing if the other one falls through.
There's a very nice one at my local oddities shop but they want $850 for it. Reasonable for the quality but not something I can shell out that easily.
You also wouldn't happen to know a place that sells reasonably priced meteor knives do you?
generally the occupants of this thread are discussing high (ritual) magic, and occult practices involving it.
What part of it are you not understanding? Youll need to be more specific.
Hi you seem like a knowledgable wizard willing to offer some wisdom...where do I start to practice magic? Where did you start? My gifts are hyper perception of the world through emotions, empath
>where do I start to practice magic?
Up to you. I would recommend a study of formal, mathematical logic and hypnosis.
As far as straight-to-practice goes, I'd highly recommend Liber 341.
>Where did you start?
Here's the sequence:
>reiki and such
>straight depressive nihilism
It's been a long journey. I consider myself at least a journeyman in most of those forms, and I've mastered several (the Tarot, Thelemic modes of thought, and hypnosis/ hypnotherapy).
>My gifts are hyper perception of the world through emotions, empath
You're going to have an easy time, then, as long as you also spend some time each day using critical thought instead of just going all-in with your emotions all the time.
How can some of you sometimes not help but feel a little foolish devoting hours of your precious time to reading increasingly obscure and obtuse texts - most of which are self published?
I understand the need to want to be part of something more. I understand the need to feel as if you can act on the world in a meaningful way, but I can't help but think you've been sold a pack of lies.
Magic or magick(?) is at best a religion and at worst a pseudoscience. Science and magic are both very similar in structure; they both require practitioners to memorize and apply a body of facts, and they both involve rituals to see the intentions of their work brought to fruition. The only difference is that science actually produces verifiable and useful results - results that lead to a greater degree of power and personal freedom in the real world - whereas magic has yet to produce anything other than altered mental states in the minds of its practitioners. Altered mental states that are most likely placebo. If you believe otherwise, provide proof. Don't even constrain yourselves to the scientific method - just provide one iota of proof that magic can actually have a definite impact on the world around you.
The works you all read are voluminous, overly verbose, and intentionally make use of the names of ancient deities and spiritual rites in an attempt to garner validity via a sense of awe and mystery. The fact that these text regularly sell for hundreds of dollars doesn't surprise me. These people are cashing in on your need to feel special and at the fringe. But these texts contain very little in the way of useful information. It's a bit like playing intellectual dress up.
If you want real power and understanding; if you want to truly be awed by discovery; if you want to at least attempt to push the boundaries of what we know - why not devote your time to science and mathematics? It would be infinitely more rewarding.
So many misconceptions but it was an effort post.
>devoting hours of your precious time to reading increasingly obscure
it's a hobby and it's fun, the hours aren't wasted if you enjoy yourself and get something out of it
>I understand the need to want to be part of something more
you are barking up the wrong tree if you are in it to be part of something. There are maybe 7 regulars in these threads. And real life practitioners are few are far between, more so for high magic. And that everyone develops their own body of work over ttime. So if ou're looking to be part of something a sports team or church or even trivia night at a bar would get you more involved.
>Magic or magick(?) is at best a religion and at worst a pseudoscience
Magic is a collection of practices (where you are supposed to drop the ones that don't work) and the study of religions to sort the wheat from the grain. Many people do wander off into pseudoscience (quantum anything, penal gland) but those people are being foolish.
>Science and magic are both very similar in structure
levi was the last author I can think off to flat out say the two are separate and should be kept separate and I still think there is wisdom in that.
>they both require practitioners to memorize and apply a body of facts
To start with all you are required to do is practice, the body of knowledge can be acquired later, or skipped entirely if you don't feel like bothering with it, though that would be rather limiting.
>The only difference is that science actually produces verifiable and useful results
So does magic, but I'm guessing your confusing high magic and witchcraft here.
> results that lead to a greater degree of power and personal freedom
I've rubbed to rocks together to find out which one is harder. I am the master of rocks! Top kek
>anything other than altered mental states
Yes. To know others is to be wise, to know yourself is to be enlightened. To never question or toy with your own experience is to be a dull fragile limited creature.
>on the world around you.
>walks into a high magic thread demanding witchcraft even though you've already shown you know better
>overly verbose, and intentionally make use of the names of ancient deities and spiritual rites
History and anthropology are fascinating, no?
> attempt to garner validity
The only way to garner validity is to consistently bring about those altered states you mentioned earlier
> text regularly sell for hundreds of dollars
and are more regularly provided for free, formerly by lodges, and for the past 20 years by assholes on the internet
> playing intellectual dress up
posting that in a post where you intentionally confuse your own point that many times is top kek
> time to science and mathematics
tfw most of your time is wasted begging for grants and getting your ass ridden by the new corporate uni management
>So does magic, but I'm guessing your confusing high magic and witchcraft here.
What results, beyond 'I think I feel different', does magic produce?
>I've rubbed to rocks together to find out which one is harder. I am the master of rocks! Top kek
You're insecurity is showing. I think you know science has discovered far more than which rocks are harder than others.
>levi was the last author I can think off to flat out say the two are separate and should be kept separate and I still think there is wisdom in that.
And levi is an authority why? The fundamental similarities I mentioned still stand.
Your point about it being fun is fine, I guess.
> playing intellectual dress up
>posting that in a post where you intentionally confuse your own point that many times is top kek
So you're saying 'magic' is different from witchcraft? So you've just hijacked the word for your own purposes. From what I am hearing, magic basically boils down to a needlessly complex version of cognitive behavioral therapy. Self help books using the cover of mysticism to push their product on special snowflakes. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
>tfw most of your time is wasted begging for grants and getting your ass ridden by the new corporate uni management
tfw 60% of of recent stem graduates make six figures annually while doing something they love.
even though zorak made a great reply Ill throw in my 2 cents too.
>devoting hours of your precious time to reading increasingly obscure and obtuse texts - most of which are self published?
Why are you so emotionally invested in my harmless hobbies?
>but I can't help but think you've been sold a pack of lies.
Do you consider us so naive and stupid that we've never postulated that? We've never looked at a book or system and thought it was bullshit? We are capable of exercising discretion. At least do us the favor of not insulting us.
>The only difference is that science actually produces verifiable and useful results
I believe youll be hard pressed to find many advanced magi who would disagree with this.
It may interest you to know but many of the high magic practitioners I know are involved in the sciences. I am an anthropologist.
>magic has yet to produce anything other than altered mental states in the minds of its practitioners.
Now you're catching on.
>If you believe otherwise, provide proof.
We've not made an assertion, we don't need to prove anything to you.
>one iota of proof
The PRACTICE of magic has certainly impacted the world around us regardless of the efficacy of magic itself.
> in an attempt to garner validity via a sense of awe and mystery.
conjecture, also, irrelevant to your argument.
> But these texts contain very little in the way of useful information. It's a bit like playing intellectual dress up.
You mean like cognitive behavioral therapy or hypnosis or roleplaying therapy? Sure.
>why not devote your time to science and mathematics?
Ill let you know how last springs devotions turn out after all the dating materials come back from the lab and we've cataloged the finds and can correlate them back to the actual site in spring again.
>It would be infinitely more rewarding.
Rewards for personal activities are subjective, I find both my professional and private life very rewarding.
Define these altered states. Will they cure people of clinical depression? Will they organize your mental faculties to the point where you possess a photographic memory? Will they give you the ability to seem effortlessly charismatic? If these altered states amount to feeling a chill down your spine or having a warm/fuzzy feeling all over your body for a quarter of an hour, what exactly is the point?
>Will they cure people of clinical depression? Will they organize your mental faculties to the point where you possess a photographic memory? Will they give you the ability to seem effortlessly charismatic?
I can do that and induce those states in people. It's science. Just because it has a mystical aesthetic doesn't mean it doesn't work.
>What results, beyond 'I think I feel different', does magic produce?
Why does it require further results than that?
>And levi is an authority why?
If you don't even know who Levi is or why he is an authority perhaps you are more qualified to lecture to someone else? This isn't even just about magic, he was a relatively important historical figure for sociology theology and philosophy.
>I can do that and induce those states in people. It's science. Just because it has a mystical aesthetic doesn't mean it doesn't work.
OK, let's stick with depression as that affects a huge portion of the population and, if you could cure it, that would be a major feather in magic's cap. How do you do it?
If someone can be an authority on something, and that 'something' isn't relative, then it must have a basis in reality. But you have said your perfectly fine with magic being considered a hobby and offering altered states no more profound than a feeling of warmth or a tingle down the spine.
You can't have it both ways. You can't claim that magic is a hobby that can be used to induce nothing other than a mild placebo affect whilst also claiming that there are authorities within magic. It's a bit like saying someone is an authority on chewing tobacco. They may well be authoritative in the sense that they think they know what constitutes good chewing tobacco and what doesn't - but this is ultimately just an opinion because chewing tobacco isn't a science. Levi may have a point, but anyone with an opposing point is just as valid in their thinking.
You'll say this isn't the case because even hobbies have people who are considered established figures, and you would be right. Someone who crafts their first model airplane isn't going to be as skilled or as knowledgeable about the process as someone who has been doing it for over thirty years and is in the process of manufacturing models of their own. The difference here is that people can say what constitutes a good model from a bad model objectively - based on the quality of the craftsmanship. The same can't be said for magic because you're dealing with very mild, very personal, alterations in one's emotional state. In that sense, you are as likely to be an authority as Levi; I have no real way of judging which one of you is better at their craft.
>How do you do it?
I use 5-step Therapy as the process.
>regress to cause & desensitize & ICT
>parts therapy - people surrounding the cause
>parts therapy - self-integration
>parts therapy - secondary benefits
Works universally, both for such minor things as depression, as well as mental health issues, like paranoid schizophrenia.
Of course, takes a bit of time, but it's worth it.
Plus, you can substitute any ritual or meditation in there, as long as it achieves the same goal.
>If someone can be an authority on something, and that 'something' isn't relative, then it must have a basis in reality
Youre twisting the definition for your purpose, but well roll with it I guess.
>But you have said your perfectly fine with magic being considered a hobby and offering altered states no more profound than a feeling of warmth or a tingle down the spine.
>You can't claim that magic is a hobby that can be used to induce nothing other than a mild placebo affect whilst also claiming that there are authorities within magic.
Yes, actually I can. Art is also subjective, and there are authorities on art, stop attempting to twist these definitions to fit your nebulous point.
> Levi may have a point, but anyone with an opposing point is just as valid in their thinking.
Fine, despite the actual definitions, what will soothe your aching? Shall we refer to him as an expert? Would that be semantically more pleasant for you?
>The same can't be said for magic because you're dealing with very mild, very personal, alterations in one's emotional state.
Of course it can, the quality or purpose of a childs model being put together is entirely subjective. We could quantify whether the model was assembled correctly, but if you genuinely consider that to be the sum of the experience Im sorry about your childhood.
>In that sense, you are as likely to be an authority as Levi; I have no real way of judging which one of you is better at their craft.
You genuinely seem to be under the impression that this is a... what... a profession? A quantifiable physical thing like I dont know.. masonry or carpentry or something? Im not sure how to even communicate with you about this.
Im genuinely trying to understand your motivation in this. Why do you feel a necessity to judge something you have little interest in? Or its practitioners and adherents and fans?
What motivates you to even be here making these arguments?
>if you could cure it, that would be a major feather in magic's cap.
alchemy's law of equivalent exchange, bruh. if you cure something another illness of equal value will take its place
I want to know what motivates you to read voluminous texts when you're saying all their teachings can surely be said to produce is a few tingles. Why wouldn't you devote your time to a hobby that is more rewarding?
>what motivates you to read voluminous texts
Its fun, Im also a trivia buff, I like all sorts of obscure knowledge and I collect weird shit from the natural sciences. It all goes hand in hand.
>you're saying all their teachings can surely be said to produce is a few tingles
That is not what I said, please refrain from misquoting or taking me out of context. What I said was "Why does it require further results than that?" I never made an assertion as to what could be expected at minimum, or maximum. Im not even sure the argument is relevant or fair. Do you go into art galleries and demand your money back if you do not have an artistically inspired personal epiphany? Thats not how it works.
>Why wouldn't you devote your time to a hobby that is more rewarding?
I have many hobbies, I find this one very rewarding. I am also a marksman, I practice primitive skills which have informed my field of specialty in anthropology. I like horror movies and am a moderately talented programmer though I never had the head to make it a profession in any way. Would you care to judge anything else from my life? Shall I defend my other pursuits as well?
>I find this one very rewarding
What about it do you find rewarding? What has it done for you?
>Would you ask what a painting has done for you?
Yes, I would. In the sense that I am likely to go after art that stirs great feelings within me rather than art which does not. The experience is enough in and of itself. If you're saying the same thing applies when reading magic books - why do they give you these experiences? What makes one work of magic better than another work for you, personally?
Perhaps you should take a bit of time to learn about you are commenting on before posting. Put some of those well honed research skills to use rather than wildly thrashing about whatever misconceptions make you feel the most self righteous.
>What about it do you find rewarding? What has it done for you?
How can I rephrase this for you to understand it? I enjoy doing it, I enjoy reading the books. I enjoy owning the books, I enjoy making connections between the works and folklore and magic. I enjoy knowing these strange obscure things, their source is irrelevant, their 'truth' is irrelevant. I enjoy the process of engaging in high and low magic, it is rewarding to me regardless of its efficacy. I like making herbal tinctures, I like setting up altars, I like engaging in ritual. Why is this so difficult to understand for you?
>Would you ask what a painting has done for you?
You literally just misquoted AND misconstrued me after I asked you politely to stop doing that. That is not at all what I said. You should ask what a painting does for you. What I asked is if you complained to the art gallery if you didnt receive an epiphany from their gallery.
> In the sense that I am likely to go after art that stirs great feelings within me rather than art which does not.
People do things which they personally find fulfilling and stirs feelings in them and its a subjective experience? And that experience is enough in and of itself? Funny then....
>If you're saying the same thing applies when reading magic books
Thats precisely what Im saying. I dont know WHY things bring me joy, they just do. I think I like magic for a number of reasons that are hard to articulate. I cant really quantify what makes one magical thing "better" for me than another. I like magic and magical works which have relevancy to my anthropological studies a great deal. I have always been interested in extremely primitive human spirituality, where it comes from, how we developed it. Is it merely a cultural artifact? Is it something to do with genetic inheritance? What is the smallest unit of "faith"? Can it be summed? Is there a faith or a magic that all humans share? (cont..)
Theres a million things that it ties back into, folklore, superstition, psychology, sociology, anthropology, theology, these are deep analyses of humans concerns and cultures.
The magic of the rennaisance is very different from the magic of the archaic, or theoretically of the paleolithic, and definitely different than that of the information age. Why? Whats different? Whats the same? How does that effect me? Can this inform my world view? Can it inform it in a secular as well as religious/spiritual way?
This is a complex and storied, ancient tradition of beliefs and practices, and its worthy of study and interest.
you already have. Maybe read some of the books in the OP post. Theres an entire folder there for academic research, and any good anthropological resource will have things dedicated to their local cultural spirituality and beliefs.
well thanks, I wouldn't mind a super spooky beer and / or coffee with fellow magi.
Though to be fair, Im not big on the high magic. Ya'all are probably more experienced with the deep ceremony than I am.
Preparing a Drive folder of key texts that I can have on hand if I'm travelling around.
Dipping into my personal library, and so far I have:
>Dragon Book of Essex
>3 Books of Occult Philosophy
>Magick in Theory & Practice
>On the Mysteries (Iamblichus)
I think that's a fairly solid foundation for any work I might be doing. May throw a few grimoires in a folder too.
What am I missing here? Was considering throwing in some Zalewski, but there's no one stand-out text that isn't basically already covered there. Not going to get too much use from Abramelin either, I suspect. Possibly the Book of Lies?
>One of these is not like the others
Check out the one that was supposed to be in the photo, but got moved aside at the last moment.
oh Ive found that it all blends together pretty well in low magic because much of it is SO similar being highly sympathetic and talismanic. Ive studied and done stuff from most traditions, rootwork, shamanism and animistic stuff, granny magic, clever folk, European traditional stuff hexenmesiter (before it came to penn.) stuff like that. A very little bit of western european stuff. I try to stay away from the hoodoo, powwow and 'christian' rooted traditions because they dont work for me. I dont feel it and anyone Im working for knows it.
Im most attached to the afro-carribean rootwork stuff though. It feels best to me as long as its not the highly commercialized tourist trade stuff.
>If you want real power and understanding; if you want to truly be awed by discovery; if you want to at least attempt to push the boundaries of what we know - why not devote your time to science and mathematics? It would be infinitely more rewarding.
There is nothing more rewarding than internal working of the self. Neither magic practices nor science will hand you that on a silver platter. Magical systems will attempt to get you there but cannot guarantee a sound voyage.
>three good regular shovels
>one good pickaxe
>some decent hemp rope
>one good snowshovel
>respirators or at minimum high rated filter masks
>enough money to make a couple friends forget that they're illegally graverobbing
>enough weed/beer to compliment the above point
>gas out to the very remote site
>water, maybe a bite to eat
>maybe buckets w/ peroxide
>risk of bones being pulverized or otherwise unusable
500$'s still a pain in the ass but probably about as rough as assembling a team of folks to do it by hand, and paying for it negates the risk of felony.
I wouldn't pay more than that, tho.
I agree, good times with friends are nice, but in terms of cost, it's really not more expensive to buy a cheap skull than to do the deed yourself.
I had a site and costs drawn up, but couldn't get all willing participants in the same place at the same time before I needed it.
What about the feeling of your baby suckling at your breast, as your pale blood fills its belly and nourishes it with the love from your own flesh?
or maybe you lack that memory from your ancestral genetic memory
I'm not surprised.
In other news, this is dreadful. Wonderful, but dreadful.
I do this for a living, been doing hypnosis for 3 years now.
If you want, I can show you direct connections between hypnosis and ritual; Victor Turner makes a very strong case for it using the concept of liminality, this being effectively the exact same thing as bypassing the critical faculty of the conscious mind, or a "suspension of disbelief", as some call it.
This accounts for at least 90-95% of all phenomena that take place in ritual, regardless of it's nature.
>Also clearly you've been hitting the bong a little too hard.
Impossible. We all know anybody that has experienced altered states of consciousness without the use of psychoactive substances is free to do as much as they want when they want.
>If you want real power and understanding; if you want to truly be awed by discovery; if you want to at least attempt to push the boundaries of what we know - why not devote your time to science and mathematics? It would be infinitely more rewarding.
Funny you should say that, I know many very skilled and studied occultists that are scientists or mathematicians as well. The problem with this thinking is believing the two to be independent of one another. Magic is science and math, science and math (in a way) is magic. The they are sisters not rival tribes.
You seem so curious as to why people would want to spend so much time and money on learning these things then why don't you try to see for yourself?
Robert Anton Wilson was extremely well read on many subjects, including the actual Illuminati. His card game was meant to be a joke, but people thought it was something sinister. That and the actual books themselves is why I think he hit gold with that one.
Hey guys, I have an increasing interest in potions and their effects. Are they actually viable at all? Are there any schools of thought that I could be pointed towards or is it more of a fictional thing?
Check out the book "Ars Philtron" in the Chumbley>CS folder.
Great, up there with Ulysses and Infinite Jest.
I like to start around Chaldean Oracles but it's not exactly 'core' and Iamblichus is p. good too.
The card game is from Steve Jackson, not RAW, though RAW deeply influenced it.
Well, let's see:
>Funny you should say that, I know many very skilled and studied occultists that are scientists or mathematicians as well.
The overlap between scientists and people who unironically practice occultism is so entirely miniscule in this day and age that I have full confidence in calling your anecdotal evidence "bullshit".
>The problem with this thinking is believing the two to be independent of one another.
They are. When people do take an interest in each, they are unrelated to the other, just as scientists who practice religion. Their religion does not inform their scientific knowledge, and their scientific knowledge does not inform their religious beliefs.
>Magic is science and math, science and math (in a way) is magic. The they are sisters not rival tribes.
Superstition, which is magic, is the opposite of science. The relationship between "occultism" and science is one of abuse and reject. As soon as some new scientific finding comes out, the first thing occultists do is reinterpret their silly books to say "look, they totally predicted this hundreds of years ahead of time!" Then misinterpret said scientific findings as "proof" that magic is possible (in the past with electromagnetism, these days with QM). Then when asked why there's no actual proof that magic is possible, explain "because science can't prove it yet", admitting that their entire basis is a load of unfalsifiable gibberish with no support to even suspect it might be true.
It's also a blue moon when you find anyone interested in occultism who understands mathematics beyond an elementary arithmetic level, as that's all that's needed for kaballah number games.
>You seem so curious as to why people would want to spend so much time and money on learning these things then why don't you try to see for yourself?
The curious part is why, in the 21st century, people keep wasting their time on the same outdated, flawed, and baseless theories, which have never actually worked.
If his anecdotes are worthy of rejection, yours are too. Without hard statistics, we can't say what percentage of academics/scientists practice some form of occulted mysticism, or what Kabbalist attainment with math is.
For what it's worth, my old dept had:
>A Typhonian professor
>A Shamanic/Animist professor
And possibly a few others but mostly secular with a Christian minority, and some of those may or may not have engaged in some kind of contemplative practice or mysticism.
Sure, it's more anecdote for rejection, but in the evidentiary pyramid, samples of anecdote with any representative size trumps expert opinion, so there's that.
I'd even recommend Medical Anthropology, if you've got an actual subset of that in your department. Even if they just offer a single course, you should still take it. I did a few papers on shamanic medicalization of x-linked parkinsonian dystonia, but I like dopamine related disorders.
Hell, just thumbing through some ethnographies can give you huge amounts of shit to work with when it comes to medicinal plants, and the good anthro wonks will list a species name after the tribal name and name via local global language.
You may find the metaphilosophy question interesting, unfortunately a quick google search didn't turn up anything similar with scientists.
This gives me some glimmers of hope.
That's way higher than gen pop on the very basic binary of "god or no god?".
>62% are non-nominal
Dunno what I think about that'n yet.
I dig the finer points of outlying survey data, I'd love to glance through their results before they were codified for publication.
now i'm rooting around the pew forum website, no luck finding info on scientists (or social scientists, who are oddly incurious about themselves).
What do you make of 49% of americans in 2009 claiming to have had a religious experienceup from 33% in 94'
But what's cute is at the most basic level, self report surveying is ... anecdote, so I guess those results are questionable too :^)
>philosophy hasn't been relevant in hundreds of years.
>Another popular myth is that philosophy keeps dwelling on the same questions, the implication being that, again, it doesn’t settle anything and consequently cannot move on to something else. But if “the same questions” are defined broadly enough, we can raise the very same criticism about science itself. I mean, your own profession of cosmology has been dwelling on “the same question” (the origin and evolution of the universe) since the pre-Socratic atomists (philosophers, by the way). And my discipline of biology has been concerned with the nature of adaptation since Aristotle’s (another philosopher!) articulation of his four fundamental causes. I’m not being flippant here, truly. Of course there are plenty of more specific sub-questions in cosmology (or evolutionary biology), some of which have indeed been settled; and of course we have made tremendous progress on the broader picture as well (usually, by settling some of the sub-questions). But the same — at a different scale and within a different time frame — can be said of philosophy, or mathematics, or logic.
>You and a number of your colleagues keep asking what philosophy (of science, in particular) has done for science, lately. There are two answers here: first, much philosophy of science is simply not concerned with advancing science, which means that it is a category mistake (a useful philosophical concept ) to ask why it didn’t. The main objective of philosophy of science is to understand how science works and, when it fails to work (which it does, occasionally), why this was the case. It is epistemology applied to the scientific enterprise. And philosophy is not the only discipline that engages in studying the workings of science: so do history and sociology of science, and yet I never heard you dismiss those fields on the grounds that they haven’t discovered the Higgs boson. Second, I suggest you actually look up some technical papers in philosophy of science  to see how a number of philosophers, scientists and mathematicians actually do collaborate to elucidate the conceptual and theoretical aspects of research on everything from evolutionary theory and species concepts to interpretations of quantum mechanics and the structure of superstring theory. Those papers, I maintain, do constitute a positive contribution of philosophy to the progress of science — at least if by science you mean an enterprise deeply rooted in the articulation of theory and its relationship with empirical evidence.
>Hell, political theory is philosophy.
>Finally, please have some respect for your mother. I don’t mean your biological one (though that too, of course!), I am referring to the intellectual mother of all science, i.e., philosophy. As you yourself seem to have a dim perception of (see your example of Newton), one of the roles of philosophy over the past two and half millennia has been to prepare the ground for the birth and eventual intellectual independence of a number of scientific disciplines. But contra what you seem to think, this hasn’t stopped with the Scientific Revolution, or with the advent of quantum mechanics. Physics became independent with Galileo and Newton (so much so that the latter actually inspired David Hume and Immanuel Kant to do something akin to natural philosophizing in ethics and metaphysics); biology awaited Darwin (whose mentor, William Whewell, was a prominent philosopher, and the guy who coined the term “scientist,” in analogy to artist, of all things); psychology spun out of its philosophical cocoon thanks to William James, as recently (by the standards of the history of philosophy) as the late 19th century. Linguistics followed through a few decades later (ask Chomsky); and cognitive science is still deeply entwined with philosophy of mind (see any book by Daniel Dennett). Do you see a pattern of, ahem, progress there? And the story doesn’t end with the newly gained independence of a given field of empirical research. As soon as physics, biology, psychology, linguistics and cognitive science came into their own, philosophers turned to the analysis (and sometimes even criticism) of those same fields seen from the outside: hence the astounding growth during the last century of so called “philosophies of”: of physics (and, more specifically, even of quantum physics), of biology (particularly of evolutionary biology), of psychology, of language, and of mind.
>A common refrain I’ve heard from you (see direct quotes above) and others, is that scientific progress cannot be achieved by “mere armchair speculation.” And yet we give a whole category of Nobels to theoretical physicists, who use the deductive power of mathematics (yes, of course, informed by previously available empirical evidence) to do just that. Or — even better — take mathematics itself, a splendid example of how having one’s butt firmly planted on a chair (and nowhere near any laboratory) produces both interesting intellectual artifacts in their own right and an immense amount of very practical aid to science. No, I’m not saying that philosophy is just like mathematics or theoretical physics. I’m saying that one needs to do better than dismiss a field of inquiry on the grounds that it is not wedded to a laboratory setting, or that its practitioners like comfortable chairs.
Nothing in these passages actually contradicts Asimov, though. I direct you to:
>As you yourself seem to have a dim perception of (see your example of Newton), one of the roles of philosophy over the past two and half millennia has been to prepare the ground for the birth and eventual intellectual independence of a number of scientific disciplines. But contra what you seem to think, this hasn’t stopped with the Scientific Revolution, or with the advent of quantum mechanics. Physics became independent with Galileo and Newton (so much so that the latter actually inspired David Hume and Immanuel Kant to do something akin to natural philosophizing in ethics and metaphysics); biology awaited Darwin (whose mentor, William Whewell, was a prominent philosopher, and the guy who coined the term “scientist,” in analogy to artist, of all things); psychology spun out of its philosophical cocoon thanks to William James, as recently (by the standards of the history of philosophy) as the late 19th century. Linguistics followed through a few decades later (ask Chomsky); and cognitive science is still deeply entwined with philosophy of mind (see any book by Daniel Dennett). Do you see a pattern of, ahem, progress there?
^Boom, the process of becoming 'more correct' through time, with the help of *both* philosophy and science.
If this can be taken as an accurate view of what "philosophers of science" are, then they should probably consider becoming "philosophers of coloring books and nap time", because they are apparently unable to comprehending evidence based reasoning.
So you admit, by your own passage, that philosophy hasn't been relevant in hundreds of years, just as I said. Cogsci is next, as soon as we develop slightly more sophisticated instruments.
But it's not lost on me how someone who believes in magical powers (which science has made irrelevant) is trying to defend philosophy (which science has also made irrelevant).
you drank the "internet pop science kool-aid".
>> The overlap between scientists and people who unironically practice occultism is so entirely miniscule in this day and age
> Isaac Newton was an occultist but it doesn't count, he's old!
> all the christian scientists don't count
> any evidence against my worldview must be an anecdote
Can someone answer this?
Say a group of neo luddites in the hundreds or thousands began using occult magick to alter the probability of a solar superstorm wrecking the electrical grid.
Sources put the probability now at 7% likely in the next decade. What percentage could they get the probability up to if they went all out?
read left to right likely uses one side of your brain
the other side will read it right to left, thats a spell
sometimes they use it for displaying the true meaning of the word
sideways its all egyptian cuniform...
>read left to right likely uses one side of your brain
>the other side will read it right to left, thats a spell
>sometimes they use it for displaying the true meaning of the word
>sideways its all egyptian cuniform...
>What percentage could they get the probability up to if they went all out?
Assuming your "7%" figure is accurate...
If they went all out, and I mean ALL OUT, using every faculty of willpower in perfect harmony with one another, over the course of a decade...
Magic isn't real.
I am thinking of starting a new occult system of magick. I want to do something similar to allomancy from the mistborn books, but instead of ingesting and burning metals for power, you use different kinds of cookies.
Do you think it would be possible to turn this into a ritual and draw on my bakeomantic powers from enchanted biscuits?
Kek, bravo Chumbley
For a book set in le spooky Essex witchcraft, it seems to have an enormous fascination with Iranian material.
Kind of makes sense in a way, material from that region is pretty much the source code of the entire Western Mystery Tradition.
Still haven't had a chance to begin SHUA yet, will try it tomorrow. And will also reply to your email, been on the move a bit the past few days seeing family.
Sure thing, m8. My elemental attributions petered out a bit. Considering the trajectory of Bon and Vajrayana Chod, I may just rewrite the whole fucking ritual using Cultus Sabbati's Godforms.
Also, Shua, the whole thing from the pre-stuff to Shua proper, seems like a great guided contemplative method to SERIOUSLY redact things like Black Oracle taken as a whole.
I'm going to stop using Hypostasis daily. It's too potent and seemed to be draining/unbalancing. I'm going to reserve it for longform rituals (Black Moon) and then replace it with Backwards Prayer in my daily practice. Seems to be 'clicking' better thus far.
How do you mean to 'redact' things like the Oracle?
Weirdly, I'm finding the HU spells aren't quite as potent in the ST as the regular ST spells, but it may simply be that I'm more attuned to it now, hence I'm not feeling it quite as much.
Right, ima sleep, chat more tomorrow m8
I mean shorten it down.
The contemplative offerings to the vessel may well possibly be swapped out for the triple exorcism and the calling of corners. I'm not going to experiment with them for a while, though.
I'm not sure how I feel about HU spells. They're definitely more potent than they were on the date we did it, but they only seem potent insomuch as it's empowering stuff the ST wasn't really inflaming in the right ways, I guess.
I like HU orations better but I'm getting used to basic ST like you.
I've been more relaxed with Hallowing now that I'm doing intermediate on the rosary. It seems I was right about basic Hallowing being like a hit of crack that needs Intermediate to stabilize and draw out through the day as opposed to only feeling it for like 35-45 minutes.
>>Mesmer's Lair (hypnosis, hypnotherapy, some neuropsych, brainwashing resources)
password needed for >>Mental tricks 6 techniques (pwd=ebookPublications).pdf
7 of 8 items
in mentalism section of stage folder