What is hell like to satanist or any satanist on here that want to enlighten me on this subject because I was looking it up and it was just a bunch of Christians saying it is a lake of fire and blah blah I'm not very religious right now but I've just been debating some religions and just want to know
Hell is like the worst nightmare you've ever had. The weirdest, fucked up shit your mind can call up. Those dreams you try and pretend you didn't have. Hot tubs full of vomit- screaming penises devouring each other, trash cans giving birth... But hell only exists if you beleive that you deserve to go there. Human beleif is what builds hell. Exorcise your mind of that shit.
61 word run on mess with no punctuation, rambling gibberish
not bearnormal shitposter
go to religion boards
Hell is the place of suffering your spirit goes to, also known as the grave. It's separated from paradise by a void that you can't cross over.
This is the order of places, from worst to best.
Lake of fire > Hell > Earth > Paradise > Heaven
God's enemies go to hell after dying.
At the end of the world at God's judgement, death, hell, Satan, the beast and the false prophet are all going to be thrown in the lake of fire, and nobody in heaven will remember that they ever existed. Unfortunately, because a lot of people prefer lies instead of the truth, they will also end up going to the lake of fire, when in fact they were invited to heaven to live with God, they rejected it.
It's essentially like if you go to hell, it's the recycle bin, and then the lake of fire is God removing the recycle bin and everything that's in it and forgetting it, and the things inside will never have a chance to be restored, ever again.
Satanists are clueless. Whether they are fedora tippers, goths, role players or child murderers, none of them have any clue what awaits them when they die. The ones that actually know that Satan exists have chosen to believe a liar instead of accept the truth, and so they literally have no one to blame. None of them will be able to tell you the truth, because they don't know the truth. Inb4 'satanism is just self service'.
according to what I've come across so far there are 3 types of satanism, let's exclude the temple of set because that shit is gay as fuck.
-Qliphothic- worshipping death and destruction and evil. If you're doing that, you're beyond beleiving in "satan" or "hell".
-Anti-cosmos religions like Thurzatru- again, there's no hell other than where people send themselves if they beleive too much demiurge propoganda.
Not to be confrontational, but as far as I've seen satanists don't beleive in a glorious hell realm.
Please school me if I'm wrong
Why do you beleive this?
please tell me of the personal experience/ religious practice that has lead you to beleive this so fervently.
Cause I've done the whole ///talking to god// and //talking to demons// thing and I ain't heard shit like this from either of them.
The grave/sheol is mentioned in the bible.
Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
You know that the bible was a collection of highly doctored gnostic myths, commissioned into a collection of censored stories by Roman Emporer Constantine to forcibly create a religion that the wealthy could control, rather than let everyone have access to direct relations with god, right?
Dude. The bible is a very blurry photograph of the truth.
Jesus is a metaphor for you at your best, and an amalgam/parody of several real historical figures.
You gotta let go of the training wheels. God is waiting for you. The real God. Not the egregore that constantine made to keep people scared and weak.
Try to remember, it's only a game.
People have been duped in to thinking that God is some evil megalomaniac bent on forcing people to worship Him. Especially in perverse beliefs found in stories like Prometheus.
God will punish all the deceivers and wicked people, the ones who make life harder than it should be. Yet many people are still not interested in the truth. They don't care, they just want to play ouija board games and get spooky feelings and write fanfiction stories about 10ft tall people in suits and "skin walkers" and other stupid shit.
Fortunately, God is going to destroy the wickedness and live peacefully with His family for eternity.
Here's the fate of the wicked lying serpent;
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Here's God saying that He will destroy death and redeem His people, in the Old Testament (proving Gnosticism false)
I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Death is doomed. So is hell.
>Jesus is a metaphor for you at your best
Wow, is it possible to hear the voice of a metaphor?
Lol, dude. You literally have no idea. He's very real and He loves me.
sell your wares somewhere else hippy.
why are there even aliens still alive if the bible thumpers know so much.
*tips fedora frustratedly and moonwalks over to /r/atheism to get more of my opinions*
He did, to save us from death. I hope you seek the truth too.
If your suffering has meaning, it is at least a means to an end and cannot be called hell.
As a pseudo-satanist who has yet to pull out all the stops to get out of where I am, I see hell as rambling, chaotic, absolute failure. It's a place where no one deserves to go, yet it exists anyway? It's stupid and I don't understand why it's there.
There are hellish planets mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam tol
>SB 5.26.37—My dear King Parīkṣit, in the province of Yamarāja there are hundreds and thousands of hellish planets. The impious people I have mentioned — and also those I have not mentioned — must all enter these various planets according to the degree of their impiety. Those who are pious, however, enter other planetary systems, namely the planets of the demigods. Nevertheless, both the pious and impious are again brought to earth after the results of their pious or impious acts are exhausted.
>It's stupid and I don't understand why it's there.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
The grave exists because death exists.
Death exists because sin exists.
Sin exists because of a lying evil garbage wicked serpent.
The lake of fire exists because of it, and is prepared in order to punish it and those who follow it (all people who prefer lies and those who hate God).
>but only one is true
No they are both pointless and false.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If you want to know what hell is talk to anybody who attempted suicide and failed. Ask them about what they were thinking in those final moments, and what they felt leading up to it.
Heaven and hell are metaphors for Enlightenment and spiritual death irl. Ignore spirituality and your path in the world, you risk ending up in hell. Seek it and you will find heaven, a state where you treasure everything you have, seek only what you need and are content with your place in the universe.
Hell is very real. It is the insanity brought on by total despair.
according to myths Heavens and Hells had multiple levels with different levels of pleasures or excruciating.
Hell is not having the free time and resources to post a thread on /x/ debating about the spookiness of an eternal damnation because you're busy worrying about debt and your babies shitting all over the floor because your wife is spending her time at the gardener's house when she said she'd be out buying groceries.
If you're not lucky enough for that kind of hell, then it's living in a third world country.
Hell is like a massive frozen mountain that makes any one on earth look a spec of dust. When a soul enters Hell it is dropped on the mountain and starts tumbling down for what feels like forever. Eventually they are able to grab onto something. Once back on their feet they make the climb up to the summit for the hopes to reach heaven. No matter how long they climb or how high or close they feel they get' the icy winds of Hell blow them back down. They tumble down, grab on, and climb up again; only to repeat the same loop over and over. At the base Satan's long serpent like body is wrapped around it the mountain. Those souls unlucky enough to fall all the way down are devoured by the beast. Then they will relive the worst day of their life over and over; forever and forever for all eternity.
If they were misled into hating god, or into being who they are, then how can you say they truly deserve hell?
Unless what someone deserves doesn't matter, because deserving isn't even real
I'm not buying it
I understand the logic the concept of hell follows within its own framework, but that framework itself seems like another lie
Picture is changed to be a lie.
The left path is the narrow gate and straight way that leads to life. The flames at the back have been taken from the right hand side which represents the lake of fire at the end of the wide path of destruction.
It's obviously a lie and has the mark of the beast at the top, looks like a broken snake crawling on the floor. What a piece of shit.
Nice filename btw, since most Arabs worship the serpent.
I'm not their judge. God says that anyone who denies that Lord Jesus is the Son of God is a liar and anti-Christ.
1 John 2:22-23
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Even tho we are to pray for people to be saved, it's just really sad to know that some people won't be. We can't change that, it's just the way it is.
1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Oh man wordwrap
Hold on I'll reformat
A truly loving (and therefore godlike) entity would never condemn another entity to eternal damnation as a result of their mistakes, no matter how grievous those mistakes may be. The only rational explanation for hell to exist and for a loving being to actively participate in depositing other beings there would be to offer insight into the behavior of the damned being to the damned being, which would be pointless if hell were eternal, because then nothing is ever "resolved". And a loving being craves resolution over pointless torture.
Condemning someone to an eternity of hell is an evil act, and any being that does so is him/her/itself, evil. I could see a loving being condemning another to a temporary hell, albeit with a heavy heart, for the purpose of orchestrating goodness within that being, though.
Unless you're saying that condemnation to hell is extrinsic to god's intent? That makes sense (but not really if he is the creator of everything, because everything is a manifestation of his intent), but even in such a situation why not work to eradicate hell entirely?
>a loving being craves resolution over pointless torture
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
hell is a cloudy kingdom with demons flying around playing golden trumpets, peace and love is everywhere. Your grandparents are probably there watching you from the afterlife.
heaven is a lake of fire and everlasting punishment. Angels fly around and torture the souls with pitchforks. and god sit's in the center frozen in place plotting revenge against satan.
Well, if we judge from the Bible, it is a lake of fire and brimstone, but it's also significantly cooler than heaven, as it's stated that in Heaven the light of the sun is multiplied by seven, giving us temperatures in excess of 500 degrees, whereas for Hell to contain a lake of molten brimstone it has to be below the boiling point of brimstone which is 445 degrees.
>misled into being tortured literally forever
God never lies. Never has, and never will.
Maybe those people should have stopped and smelled the shit they were shoveling, and asked if there was more to the world than fighting against "the patriarchy" or "racism".
Maybe they should be angry at the ones using them as brainless slaves to build Babylon, instead of the loving God who gave the life of His only begotten Son to cleanse us of our sins.
I don't think that's really the point, it seems like a simplistic analogy that's meant to denote the unimportant and illusory nature of materiality in determining a non-material fate
But yeah I think the assumption is the beggar didn't do anything wrong and the wealthy dude got wealthy by fucking with other people.
>Did the poor man do everything in his power to improve his wealth?
His wealth is unimportant
Or so this is how I understand it
So then nobody can be misled into going to hell? Then why are you talking about people being misled in the first place? If they weren't misled, then god clearly intended for them to go to hell, which would make god less good than it appears.
Lies exist. What exists is an unfortunate extension of god. Therefore god in its totality lies, but not the personification you are assigning to it.
>I think the assumption is the beggar didn't do anything wrong and the wealthy dude got wealthy by fucking with other people
No, he left a starving poor person at his gate die of hunger and sickness, while exalting himself by indulging in the finest clothes and wealth.
God's way is to feed the hungry, heal the sick, give shelter to the homeless, help the fatherless and protect the widows. That's the loving thing to do.
Lazarus just wanted some crumbs. Never got them from anyone in this world.
And that's not even the point, the point is as long as people are in hell, existence is not okay.
You can close your eyes and rescue whoever you want and make your little microcosm where you can shut out hell and pretend everything is okay, but that doesn't make everything okay.
Unless hell is impermanent.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
>existence is not okay.
That doesn't make sense. You can't change existence, you aren't the one that created it.
>hell is impermanent
It is, it's doomed to the same fate as liars and the wicked one who deceived the world. It's going to be thrown in the lake of fire, and everyone in heaven will be healed by the spirit of God to forget their wounds and scars.
You implied that the reason the rich guy suffered was because of shady business deals, which is not indicated. The scripture shows pretty clearly that the poor man was a beggar starving who just wanted to be fed by a few crumbs, and was on the floor being licked by dogs. He died that way, shamefully, not given anything that he needed. But God rewarded him by bringing him in to the kingdom of heaven.
So then eternal damnation is a lie.
That's all I was getting at.
>You implied that the reason the rich guy suffered was because of shady business deals
No, I said he suffered because he fucked with people. I was pretty vague, actually, you're just putting words in my mouth.
>Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil
Creating evil is not good.
I hope you see the irony in your own statement
>That doesn't make sense
Then neither does advocating for salvation, because if everything were okay, then who cares? Do you believe in right and wrong, okay vs not okay, or not? Or do you only believe when it suits your argumentative fancy?
Hell is going to be thrown in the lake of fire.
Hell is impermanent.
The lake of fire is permanent.
You either go up or down, there is no reincarnation or new age spirit science garbage.
God is love. God is good. He has given us a way to be saved.
If you don't accept it, you can't criticize Him for it. You can't email him from the lake of fire telling Him about how He made a mistake with existence, or how he is 'full of lies' or telling Him why He is wrong. He isn't going to debate with you or allow you to continue with your perverse anti-Christ beliefs.
I don't know
My point is simply that a truly loving entity would never allow an eternal hell to exist, it would be a constant pain to them no matter how much they distance themselves from it
So I hope not
Oh so it comes down to him being more powerful than me and using that power to shut out anything that may remind him of his own hypocrisy?
I'm not even anti-christ, I'm anti your interpretation of it. I'm pretty sure god has thought this through better than you or I have, or so I would hope.
>The lake of fire is permanent
So would beings be permanently tortured in this lake?
This is the most /pol/ shit I've ever seen in my entire fucking life. This is so cringy, god fucking damn.
>a truly loving entity would never allow an eternal hell to exist
It was created to punish the one who caused sin and death to come in to the world. The liar who deceived Adam & Eve. It was not created for you or me to go in to. He sent salvation to us. Unfortunately, right now you have not accepted it.
But people who hate God and don't want to know Him only have 1 alternative to go to at the end, if they don't want to be with Him in heaven.
This is the most basic logic anyone can learn as a child. If there is only A & B, and it's not A, then it's B.
>It was created to punish the one who caused sin and death to come in to the world
But its existence itself IS sin and death. It propagates sin and death solely by being an instrument in and of itself.
A loving being would never eternally condemn anyone to such a fate, no matter how they have been wronged or wronged others.
Punishment without purpose is simply sadism. If the punishment is eternal then no purpose can follow from it.
God would not simply be able to turn a blind eye to the fact that he is endlessly torturing one of his own creations. Not the god I envision, anyway.
God is not cruel. His judgements are righteous.
You are hated by God's enemy. It's lying to you. God doesn't lie to you and never will.
Not wanting to be with God is stupid.
I suppose it depends on what you mean and what your example will be.
Have you ever analyzed the story of Babylon?
People had the power and resources to build a tower that reaches to heaven, they all united and worked together to do so...what does God do? Fucks them up for trying to reach him, he fucks them up for trying to achieve greatness not in a way that he wants them to, because his greatness for mankind is absolute submission, becoming his sheep.
>I suppose it depends on what you mean and what your example will be.
Do not misunderstand me, I am not going to do some shitty omnipotence is impossible logic trick to try and disprove existence of God. Just a simple question, in your opinion is God absolutely all powerful to the point where he can create absolutely self contradicting things, I mean absolute omnipotence, ALL powerful, he can create a rock that he can lift and he can't lift at the same time etc.
In your opinion is he truly all powerful?
And doing so, furthermore, is simply admitting defeat, that he cannot save everyone. But not even attempting to save the one (from themselves) who has caused themselves and others the most pain?
The irony in accusing me of rejecting god is that I see YOU rejecting god because you seem to be completely okay with unconscionable suffering.
See, I'm more for the eradication of evil entirely.
Putting in a little bubble where it can stew in itself forever =/= eradication
Using that as a game plan is flawed if an ideal reality (in its entirety) is ever to exist.
No its existence was the will of God, to punish evil, to separate it from God and His children.
Sin is transgression of God's law, which is love.
Stealing is a sin because it's not loving to take something from someone.
God can't sin. He isn't a hypocrite.
Do you mean Babel?
I wanted to understand this too, and just now I realized why it happened. God is good and a faithful teacher.
The people who were building the tower of babel were trying to breach the heavens, which comes from the serpent. Here:
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Trying to break through heaven.
It's a sin, so for the sake of the people He confused their languages so they couldn't do it.
>Do you mean Babel?
Yeah, I mean Babel, don't know why I fucked up.
>It's a sin, so for the sake of the people He confused their languages so they couldn't do it.
Is mere act of attempting to achieve Godhood evil because God wants to be the only God?
What if they were not arrogant in that and just really wanted to create a construct to physically reach God, would he still punish them for attempting to ascend, go beyond their limits?
Genuine interest here because the only reasonable explanation I see is that God wants to be above all and all the attempts to even reach his level are shut down by him
It's a bit of a silly topic I think.
My answer to the heavy rock question is;
>Yes, He can create a rock so big that He cannot lift it
>Yes, He can also lift it, because He is God
I don't believe He can contradict Himself, no. But for example He created crops that grow from seeds, and even though they are planted, He can stop them from growing if He is displeased with His people, like He has in the past.
So, from a purely 'scientific' logical view, the crops not growing is illogical, but God has power over all things.
So, again, you'd have to ask your specific question and I'll see if I can help you. Sorry I can't give you the answers you want.
Putting someone in a lake of fire for all of eternity is an act of love?
>to separate it from God and His children
This is exactly my point! The god I envision would not be satisfied with simple separation, plugging his ears and saying lalala I can't hear you. The god I envision would not rest until every last iota of reality is okay again.
Naw, he's a coont! He's the exact sort of faggot who's going to sit there and tell you exactly what God's nature is then, the minute you point out a contradiction in his descriptions, will start screaming, "No mere human can comprehend the nature of God!!!" You know, the nature he's been claiming to understand the whole fucking conversation.
He's the sort of epic shit nozzle who'll spend the entire time explaining his interpretation of the Bible and then when you point out the Bible doesn't say what he claims, shout, "Who are you to say GOD'S WRONG?" You know, claiming that if he says it, god said it? Guys like this? Well...they're COONTS! And their God's a COONT!
The biggest problem that I came up with and the reason why about two years ago I left my Orthodox Christian faith is
If he is truly absolutely all powerful could he not have created a universe in which free will exists and yet at the same time none of the people would ever be evil? Nor the universe would contain any evils?
I mean sure, the obvious answer is no because that makes no sense, but really, everything that makes sense all logic, laws and reason are supposed to be his creation in the first place, the very basis of how things operate and WHAT MAKES SENSE is his creation, so could he just have made it absolutely differently in a way that doesn't result in so much pain and suffering?
If it was his conscious decision to make the universe the way it is, and if it truly absolutely designed by him from the very start, then I can only say that he is evil because regardless if Evil is created by him or not HE KNEW that by created this universe pain and suffering would be brought onto countless beings, countless beings that would also be thrown into an eternal lake of fire where they would wish that they were never born.
If he couldn't and there were at least some rules and laws to creation than he is not absolutely omnipotent, which I am fine with as long as the first option isn't the answer because I will never accept that kind of a God.
>Is mere act of attempting to achieve Godhood evil because God wants to be the only God?
God is the most high. Trying to make yourself that high is stupid because you never will be. It's insulting to God, and trying to steal His glory.
I just realized that the story of Icarus is an allegory of Satan trying to get too close to the throne of God, His wings melted and he fell.
God is a good and faithful teacher.
>What if they were not arrogant in that and just really wanted to create a construct to physically reach God
God lives in our hearts, in the hole that we have there, for Him. Trying to get to heaven any other way is theft, it takes away from the glory of God.
Sounds like you have some issues you need to talk to God about. I would not advise defending Satan, showing sympathy, or telling God that He is not loving because of your ideas about reality not being whole.
>the minute you point out a contradiction
You've had many minutes to try to find a contradiction, and have instead only insulted me.
>punishment without purpose
Lying to deceive God's children, created sin, created death for 6000~ years, created suffering by God's children being away from God, raped some women and caused genetic hybrids / mutations / diseases, tries constantly to steal God's glory, kills God's prophets, building a world inverted against God's truth around you, keeping you a prisoner, compelling you to attack God's Word and His message of peace and salvation, and if you get sleep paralysis you also have him to thank.
This piece of shit is your enemy and you'd rather be against God. Wow. I can't even.
I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if someone already said thisbut God gave us a gift that forgave us our sins so we wouldn't burn forever, all you have to do is acknowledge and accept him. Unfortunately some spiteful shithead named Lucifer has been working behind the scenes pulling strings to try and ensure that doesn't happen. You can try to logic it all out or whatever but ultimately you're just spinning your tires in the mud
>You've had many minutes to try to find a contradiction, and have instead only insulted me.
I just got here, good sir. I just know your type. The "voice of authority on God," what HUBRIS.
>This piece of shit is your enemy and you'd rather be against God. Wow. I can't even.
Why are lying about another person?
He made it perfectly clear what he means by punishment without purpose and now you're lying and claiming he rejects god just because he didn't agree with you. That's not how any actual person with faith in God would behave. They wouldn't lie about what other people said or felt or did, like you just did. You seem like a bad person.
>It's insulting to God, and trying to steal His glory.
Is he that petty that he gets angry by people trying to one up him?
Isn't that a sign of pride?
>God lives in our hearts, in the hole that we have there, for Him. Trying to get to heaven any other way is theft, it takes away from the glory of God
Good thing we know about that now, what about the people of Babel who some of I am sure did not know that? I generally have that question, what about a lot of the people in Bible who did not know of certain rules before they were made a living example of said rule?
They still got shafted.
Why? Why do we have to "acknowledge and accept" him? Why not just save us from a horrible endless torture he imposed on us in the first place? A gift I haven't seen any evidence of, and all I have to do to "earn" it is to admit some lying, greedy con man trying to pitch it to me is right? Try again.
>Lying to deceive God's children[...]
You're not getting it
There is no purpose in punishing an entity who did all of that if no change will be begotten from it. You're just senselessly inflicting misery because someone else did, that's petty revenge. A better punishment would be one that actually causes reform.
>This piece of shit is your enemy
Oh so you don't have to be all-loving anymore, now that it's satan we're talking about? So you're selectively loving? I thought god was the literal definition of love.
I'm not defending satan, I'm attacking your idea of how he should be dealt with.
>because of your ideas about reality not being whole
Your ideas about reality are the ones that I see as not being whole. Can't attack my statement so you attack me instead? Good one.
>I left my Orthodox Christian faith
I'm very sorry. I will pray for you.
Unfortunately you've been duped in to questioning God's marvelous works. If you think about it, it's like an ant trying to look at the world from the perspective of an eagle.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Knowing God as good, and pure love and kind and righteous, I can only assure you that you have to trust Him, and know that everything He has for His children will be perfect and that the suffering we have now is nothing compared to the joys in His kingdom.
Don't accuse God of imperfection. He created everything good in 6 days, and a hallowed day of rest, a paradise garden, a perfect man, and gave him a wife, and told him about the dangers of knowing evil and even allowed them to eat the fruit of the tree of life which gives immortality.
>Your ideas about reality are the ones that I see as not being whole. Can't attack my statement so you attack me instead? Good one.
EXACTLY what I predicted mere moments before:
>He's the sort of epic shit nozzle who'll spend the entire time explaining his interpretation of the Bible and then when you point out the Bible doesn't say what he claims, shout, "Who are you to say GOD'S WRONG?" You know, claiming that if he says it, god said it?
This is a stupid analogy but...
You know what Yahweh reminds me a lot of, Vivec from Elder Scrolls.
Because of him basically a giant meteor was supposed to hit Morrowind and destroy it...BUT HE GAVE THE PEOPLE OF MORROWIND A GIFT, he stopped the meteor, the people would be safe and the meteor would not hit the mainland as long as people would just worship him...or more importantly love him.
Eventually time of Tribunal ended and Vivec left the scene, Dunmer slowly forgot about their faith and fucking meteor hit the islands killing millions of people.
I don't know about you but Vivec seems like a fucking egoistic dick to me and please don't discard that analogy just because it's a videogame analogy.
I don't know man I don't have all the answers. The rest is on you. I guess God might feel that acknowledging the gift is the least you could do for a life of never ending bliss. Of course I don't know though
If God wants anything from anyone, it's his job to come to them, directly and talk to them, directly. Any god that insists on using unreliable, corrupt agents as his only messengers is too stupid a god to be worthy of worship.
This isn't a hard one to figure out. All people claiming god is real are almost certainly delusional or liars. We have clear examples of people lying about believing in a god to scam others of money every day. ;There's not one reason to believe any of these people's ideas are worth listening to.
So if there is a god, and that god really wants us to behave in a particular way, that god HAS to, if it be a good god, come and tell us to our face. There's literally no way around this fact. :Any god that doesn't, in this scenario, is by definition an evil entity or at the very least unbelievably stupid, lazy and incompetent. This isn't a guess, this is the only possible way existence works.
And I note that any time one of these dipshit idiot people who claim to know that god is real is hit with this, they start making up the stupidest bullshit about why god won't talk to people. That just enforces the idea that there is no god and they're all liars or delusional idiots.
But this answer is not enough for me. I honestly believe that the question I asked is not something that can be answered by any existing scriptures, nor can it be undoubtedly answered by any scholar because he is not God and he will make his assumptions based on said scriptures.
Simple fact of the matter is that I am supposed to believe in God based on what he left on this earth for me to study him with, Old and New Testament. After I studied and studied Eastern Orthodox canon properly I just simply lost my faith.
I would love to regain my faith, I love all the people in Church and the feeling of our Churches, I love those sacred traditions and rituals, the polyphonic singing, I love it all...but I feel that currently despite my doubts at least I am not blindly following something, I repeat, BLINDLY, because in the end faith boils down to blind faith and the fact that you just have to trust yourself to God and hope the he didn't mess up or that he at all exists.
I guess the analogy kind of works but not really. See the thing about God is you don't even have to actively worship him. (I'm sure he'd appreciate it though) All you have to do is acknowledge that Jesus died for your sins once and you are saved for eternity. How can you recieve a gift unless you choose to?
Also honestly could you at least attempt to answer my question? Because that is what created the horrible feeling in my heart which forced me to leave. That sometimes to remain a Christian I just have to shut my eyes and close my ears, go into sensory deprivation from the information that could upset the balance my Christian core and scream
>LALALALALAAL I TRUST IN GOD
People send me surprise gifts all the time. God shouldn't need us to do anything to "not torture us in hell." He oughta be able to work that one out all on his own without our help.
Also, I mean, Vivec...guy was only a god because of a vicious betrayal, one so heinous that an ACTUAL god condemned his entire race for it!
>He made it perfectly clear what he means by punishment without purpose
No father wants a scumbag like that in His home, especially around His children.
The punishment is righteous, against horrible and INTENTIONAL offenses against the most high.
Do not go along with evil, you will not appreciate the punishment which awaits you. God does not lie, ever.
God's work, God's glory. He's the only one who is good, and the only one who deserves it. He's the only one who gives us many chances to repent, whose mercy endures forever. Don't be His enemy, it's so utterly foolish.
>what about the people of Babel who some of I am sure did not know that?
They were shown mercy. He could have thrown a giant rock on them and squashed them. But He just confused their languages and sent them on their way.
I'm just saying I heard Lord Jesus' voice, that's all. He exists and I'm hoping you will seek Him too, so God can have more glory and more children, and so you don't have to be away from Him.
>A better punishment
Please don't tell this to God. It would be so cringe. There has to be an utter end to evil. God doesn't want His enemy in His kingdom. It's done, over with. It's final. You are not God and don't have His knowledge or righteousness.
>So you're selectively loving? I thought god was
I am not God. You're trying to argue with me over silly things. What things get put in the trash can? Trash.
I didn't attack you. You're the one telling me that God is imperfect because He hasn't followed your vision of a perfect existence. Please forgive me if I don't entertain this notion.
Your 'religion' made you lose faith? Our teacher is in heaven and in our hearts. I can only recommend that you humble yourself and ask God to forgive any foolishness of your heart and to teach you and be a light to guide your feet.
Well, and the dawning horror as you realize that so many of the people who speak most confidently and proudly about who God is and what God wants clearly don't have any clue. Most of them are really just saying who they are and what they want. That'll sure cause a person to drop organized religion, at the least, like an angry scorpion.
I think it's obvious that not everyone who says they believe in God does or that they're good people. I see that as a reflection of man though. I don't see how it's a reflection of God
It never ceases to amaze me how people just can't comprehend what DIRECTLY TO MY FACE MEANS.
As a hint, just to clear up any misunderstandings, and knowing how the phrase can be confusing, it means DIRECTLY TO MY FUCKING FACE
is some guy who died two thousand years ago speaking directly
>What things get put in the trash can?
A loving being would never call another being trash, no matter how fucked up that being is
>You're the one telling me that God is imperfect because He hasn't followed your vision of a perfect existence
No, I am telling you that -your vision- of God is imperfect. All I did was point out hypocrisies that you pretend to don't exist because they conflict with your vision of reality.
You're still being incredibly evasive, by the way.
>I didn't attack you
You did. Instead of dealing with what I said you jumped to conclusions about who I am and then vomited them back onto me.
how about some OC clowns?
or u still waiting for me to come back and save the world
Not him but according to which Church?
If you would ask my priest you have to
>Actively believe and worship God in your heart
>Actively worship God and attempt to reach God through your lifetime
>Go to Church and go through the rites of Eucharist to cleanse your soul from sins
>Go through his daily prayers and read his psalms
No faithful was safe unless he tires to mimic Christ, goes to Church and does the holy rites.
But I am sure you are from a Church that is more open in that regard...well tell me, how do I know which Church is truthful? Which variant of Christianity should I take on and how will I ever fully know truth, especially when stuff like more than half of Gospels were destroyed at Nicea.
>No father wants a scumbag like that in His home, especially around His children.
Bullshit, we're talking about eternal torture, not refusal of entry, and you know that. You're lying again. You're not a Christian, you're just a loud mouth who wants to seem important in the eyes of others, and you're willing to lie to do it.
>Because that is what created the horrible feeling in my heart which forced me to leave
God's enemies who choose to turn from God, to hate and persecute His children. They get punished.
So much of the Old Testament is God forgiving people, having mercy and blessing them, and then watching them turn bad again and inherit curses and get punished for it.
God will forgive you, just turn back to Him.
It's really not nice to think about people having to be punished. But have you tried to reason with them? How can you change their hearts or their minds?
It doesn't mean God is imperfect. God's kingdom will be perfect with children that love Him, forever.
The one you should hate is the one who is deceiving them and building Babylon.
Are you really going to let it win? You want it to steal you away from God?
If you are saved, God will not allow you to be taken away. You are redeemed, at a great price. Come in to the light to be rebuked, and receive His mercy and forgiveness.
God is the only one high enough and righteous enough to sit in the judgement seat in heaven. It's not our responsibility.
But it has to be direct communication with ME! That's kind of what direct means! It doesn't work if he tells someone else to tell me because he and i both know that other person is an imperfect, corrupt human I can't trust!
Now, I mean, there is the possibility that God's just fine with who I am now, despite what the hell and brimstone folks want to claim.
Alternatively, I fall firmly into the works over faith camp, aka what Pope Francis just preached, we all know what being good and kind and charitable to other people is, and if we do it God will let us into heaven. And most genuinely good, intelligent people do seem to think that's a more likely theology. So in those scenarios God wouldn't have to take time out to talk to me direct.
I notice that most of the people who say that no, it doesn't matter how you act, it's about you saying outloud that you agree with their conclusions about Jesus, the faith over works crowd, tend to be the sorts that aren't very good people and are typically in violation of most of the other stuff Jesus specifically said to do. That tells me a lot about why they elected to favor a verbal pledge of allegiance to Jesus over treating their fellow humans with kindness as their route to salvation.
>The one you should hate is the one who is deceiving them and building Babylon.
But why did Lucifer or Satan or whatever your version of deceiver even happen?
If he was an Angel, are Angels even supposed to have free will?
If he does indeed have free will, why should I hate him? If he was not predestined to become evil incarnate, and he still has free will, I would pray for him because I believe that even the most deceived and most foolish can be saved as long as they have free will.
Azura is a slut too, if TES teaches us anything is that all of the mortals who achieve apotheosis are dicks and all the Daedra and Aedra are dicks or crazy or crazy dicks, especially Lorkhan and Akatosh.
To be honest I don't go to church. Obviously many are corrupted (by the devil himself I believe) and these other expectations are demonic lies meant to keep people away from the church. The bible says "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the son of man (Jesus) be lifted up: that whoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
>-your vision- of God is imperfect
His own scripture tells you who is going to get thrown in the lake of fire;
Death, hell, the false prophet, the beast, the lying serpent, all liars, anyone else not found in the book of life.
Not people or things God will allow in His kingdom.
That's what I've told you. You're telling me that the bible is wrong, because God doesn't implement your "everyone is welcome even evil" circus idea.
Please quote my attacks to you.
I don't control how God punishes evil. God is love, so logically anyone that God punishes is against love.
Lord Jesus is the truth, so liars are the antithesis of Him - all liars will be cast out, because they are against Him.
>But why did Lucifer or Satan or whatever your version of deceiver even happen?
I don't know and I don't think it's even that important. God is good and He loves us. He did not prepare the punishment for us.
I often get the feeling that these good vs evil debates are just satan talking to himself
One side of his incredibly tortured soul talking to and conflicting with the other
God is watching from a far
>wtf u doin man?
>u done yet? c'mon I'm ready whenever you are
The ultimate goal: self-destruction
>wait what, god? everything was okay all along?
>yeah dude you were just acting like a dumbass for a minute there, let's bask in eternity and all of that :D
Almost makes me feel like I am satan desu
Or a part of him
I know! Like, how the fuck is Akatosh the GOOD guy? At least ones like Sheogorath own it.
Given how handing any online forum chatter moderator power tends to make them act, though, I suspect that if we picked twenty random humans and made them all into demi-gods or god-lights that we'd see pretty much exactly that behavior from them. Buncha wackos!
>I don't know and I don't think it's even that important
But it is important, have you never felt how all of these things pilled up just start to nudge away at you, how eventually you just have to trust yourself to God and trust the he is perfect and we just don't know certain big details which make everything fine?
But based on what should I trust that if reading his scriptures just made me see said painful and doubt causing ideas? If the answer is not on this Earth, nor is the hint to the answer, how am I to be sure that there is an answer at all?
I know what you will most likely answer, and God bless you if that means anything from me, but trusting someone when he gave me no reason to trust him is not enough for me anymore.
>God doesn't implement your "everyone is welcome even evil" circus idea
Evil is not welcome in all forms, that's my point. That includes perverse "punishment" that amounts to nothing other than, well, evil.
If you're going to not welcome evil then you must remain internally consistent and refrain from evil yourself, and strive to resolve all evil that already exists. Not just put it in a box and hide it and pretend it doesn't exist. Because it still fucking does.
>I don't control how God punishes evil. God is love, so logically anyone that God punishes is against love.
You don't control it and you don't know anything about it. But that didn't stop you from dishonestly trying to pretend you knew anything about it. Like I said, you're not a Christian, you're a person trying to sound important so people will pay attention to you. It's genuinely shameful.
I love this theory, unfortunately I don't think it's true anymore. Apparently there were parts in the bible where God was still in contact with Lucifer after he fell. I think one day God had enough because Lucifer wouldn't apologize or whatever because he's an edgy prideful teenager and closed the door on him for good
Also finding it in your heart to forgive satan is probably the most loving thing a person can do, considering you are forgiving the most literal incarnation of wrong/evil that exists.
Now that doesn't mean you just leave him be, a person who can't stand the sight of strife could never do that. Instead you show him that he does not have to be who he is.
Overpower him with your love, friend. This "throw him away" mentality is only a small manifestation of satan himself. That's the kind of thing satan would do. Not god.
I hope that you are not the same person I was replying to previously, if so I hope that you were a troll in the first place, otherwise you are a horrible human being,
Wishing eternal torture upon someone is not something that any human being, Christian or not should wish for someone else, especially when your scriptures tell you not to.
I can no longer entertain you, you insist on calling my God's works "perverse".
>you don't know anything about it
Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Here is God, after having punished Israel.
Joel 2:24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Note; grace, mercy, and abundance. God is love.
Or did Lucifer close the door on god, and right now this is his room where he throws his own pity party for a very, very long time?
God can't just close the door like that mang he's a good guy. If Lucifer's really just being an immature dipshit then God probably understands and is waiting patiently.
I mean he has all of the time in the world, right?
I don't know man, that makes me see god as being too fallible for my tastes.
>you insist on calling my God's works "perverse".
It isn't God's work you're talking about, by definition of it being perverse. If you would just think about it you would understand what I'm saying.
That's "Pet3r" and he's a dick.
Oh you said -my- God
Yeah your God's works are perverse.
I have provided my actual reasoning for why I came to this conclusion, and you have not successfully refuted them
U mad cuz I'm right :D?
i notice, as usual, you quoting a bunch of random bible verses that have nothing to do with the stupid claims you made. Nothing there has anything to do with why God would torture lucifer eternally, nor does anything there justify it.
My theory is that God is way too trusting. Lucifer was probably given great power and free will, but God trusted him to respect him because he created him ffs. Then we were made in God's image. Surely we wouldn't fuck him over. Nope turns out we're assholes (Or Lucifer is that great of a tempter)
Like dude think about it, it would totally make the inherent falseness and "fakeness" of this reality make sense, since Lucifer probably doesn't have the power to make a real reality. So he makes a pretend one and pretends it's real and dicks around in it being forever unsatisfied because he has to hang onto his grumpy pride.
You said I had no idea about God's punishment. Yet according to His own Word, He will not forgive those who do not forgive. He instructs us many times to forgive each other, which comes from love. By not forgiving, you are not being loving. It is an example of His punishment.
It comes from God, not me. It's not a stupid claim.
Please repent and seek the truth.
You may find this beneficial. The ToS can be considered Egyptian Diabolism/ Satanism. Also, some practices intermingle qlippothic and anti-cosmic tendencies and so splitting them up based upon these formations is something you shouldn't do.
As for "death" being synonymous with "evil", you're mixing up adoration/worship of X energy currents and vernacular explicitly Satanic in meaning. Death isn't "destruction, doom and gloom" but change and evolution. "Evil" is antinomian in operation, which means that those who use it as a definition are implying that their pathei mathos is outside of social boundaries and, thus, is a call towards recognizing a universal liberation of some sorts.
There are some sects which believe in a hell, usually belonging to a form of gnostic/traditional diabolism or chaos gnosticism. In these aspects, hell refers to an entirely different condition than a finality of existence. In some cases, hell refers to a realm where the Goddess of Hell and the True Lord/ First Light dwells. This place is not a realm of fire and destruction but of primal pandimensional energetic forces older than all cosmic creation itself. In this respect, hell refers to the atavistic realm whereby the Dark Gods and Goddesses derive power; it is the realm of the Abyss, the reality of the primal Void.
I dunno, I also think God's just really shitty at communication. Like, let's say he suddenly appeared to me in a miraculous manner and announced himself. And lets just say I put him to a few tests, like, "Okay, god, you realize i can't necessarily trust myself, it's not you, it's me. So could you do this, say, three days in a row and do one or two impossible things I can demonstrate, at least to myself, just to be absolutely sure I didn't eat some bad fruit or something?" And god does all that.
And then god says to me, "could you do me a solid and maybe go to this major city and just try to get this word out to people. And after you've done that for a year or so, go tend a garden and pretty much just work not to upset people otherwise, maybe?" or something along these lines, I think I could do that pretty easily, without fucking it up or rounding on him.
But, in general, yeah, people can be assholes.
And I was right. You don't have the slightest fucking idea what you're talking about. you even equated not letting someone in a house with eternal torture, because you're just a goddamned idiot.
I don't think you've ever even really thought about this stuff. Given how random and loosely affiliated your scripture is to your actual arguments, I wouldn't be surprised if you've ever actually read the Bible. It's perfectly plausible that you just scripture search a few keywords and then paste the first hits you get.
You can't forgive people in Jesus' name. You don't speak for Jesus.
Also, what are you "forgiving" him for? He hasn't wronged you? You really do seem like a very unpleasant sort of person with little to no interest in the actual words of Jesus Christ.
>Passive aggressive bullshit
I forgive you in Lord Jesus' name. May God bless you too.
I'm not even angry at you, it's just sad.
We should do all good things in His name. Including forgiveness and mercy. He is the loving and righteous Word of God, and we are to be like Him.
I forgave him for his insults and harshness towards me, along with his accusations.
I forgive you too in Lord Jesus' name. May you all be blessed with the search for truth.
You haven't done anything good, is the problem. You have done nothing but lie to and about everyone in an attempt to bully them into accepting you as a Christian authority, which you are not. It's very unfortunate that the mods still allow you around here. It does both /x/ and you a disservice.
Your god hates people who dabbles in the occult and that's Exactly what you do when you practice his religion.
Occultism is the study of occult practices, including magic, alchemy, extra-sensory perception, spiritualism, RELIGION, and divination.
All of creation will confess it.
Right before you are all judged and thrown into the lake of fire.
See you in hell, pal.
There is nothing worse than fire and brimstone preachers. Hatred and fear have consumed them and all they can see are the fires of Ghenna. As it is inside them, so it does surround them. Pity them, for they know not love. They ignore the pleas of their neighbors and press on for the glorification of their souls. They would usurp the judgment of the most high. Pride condemns them and those who would be all-seeing will walk in the dark.
>How's that for some false prophecy
It is for the truly evil. It does not really represent eternal suffering in the sense that you're a miserable soul that is tortured forever, but I can see 'miserable' as in, you never change, you're just a cold blooded criminal. In all honesty, if that's the case, the worst thing you could do to someone like that is send them to heaven, where everything is peaceful. There is no violence or crime. Hell is where it's at.
Hell is like an endless basement. The deeper you go the more corrupt and powerful the demons. In the deeper regions you will find mountain sized embodiment's of chaos and destruction. There is no ruler or hierarchy; it's pure anarchy down there.
Honestly not even the Catholic church adheres to the doctrine of an eternal physical torment anymore, they just describe hell as a state of separation from God and constant regret, seeming to imply you can even get out.
hell is the place where gods love not can reach, a endless black void you cant imagine, extremely cold.
but hell is not a place its a state of your mind where you know every mechanic of the universe you become a god independent and all knowing the magic of the world melt away, you bite from the apple of knowledge .your desire melt proportional to your greatness of mind.
Hell is one of the reasons that religion works as a societal control mechanism. It's the idea of "You'll be hurt if you don't do what I tell you to" without having to expend any actual force.
Excuse my blatant post but um, even the most censored history book ive force my parents to pay for (to which i never get to keep any of them?) during my public school days haven had mentions (some more vauge than others) of this. A few scholarly articles will be a drool read but quite interesting.
Hell is made up by the church to control people through fear. It's a roundabout way of saying "do what we say, or you will be tortured without end". Don't believe their shit. If there is an afterlife, then it would make sense that it would be reasonable and fair. Torture for all time for finite crimes, or even no crime other than "not being a gullible sap" doesn't sound anything close to fair or just.
also, I know you asked satanists, but I'm pagan. I don't think my beliefs would invalidate an obvious historical truth, though. after all, you'd be hard pressed to find much mention of hell outside of that bad acid trip story called "Revelations"
>none of them have any clue what awaits them when they die
>implying you do, because it says so in a book
You worship a blood thirsty war god, and you would see this if you simply sat down and read your bible, all of it, front to back. but you won't do that, you'll continue to cherry pick the 'feel good' verses that support your narrative of a supposedly kind, loving, and forgiving god, despite the fact that he is very obviously bloodthirsty, war mongering, hateful, jealous, vain, hypocritical, and sadistic. If there truly exists a devil, you are worshiping him, declaring with a smile about the 'good news' of an innocent man being tortured and executed as a human sacrifice to him.
not him, but no, you are retarded. It is LITERALLY from Dante's "Divine Comedy". That is the origin of the idea of "levels of hell" (in christian mythology). Learn some fucking history.
>No, many old priests do think same.
What priests? Cite the source of this information, and why these "old priests" think this. It doesn't come from any canonical OR gnostic texts. The Divine Comedy was written early 1300s, well before either Vlad or Mother Teresa.
>God says that anyone who denies that Lord Jesus is the Son of God is a liar and anti-Christ.
And of course it's completely unheard of for a liar to claim anyone who disagrees with them is the liar. *sarcasm alert*.
>>What things get put in the trash can?
>A loving being would never call another being trash, no matter how fucked up that being is
just chiming in to agree and add my 2 cents. you would think a perfect god could do better than a trashcan. even humans have figured out how to recycle and compost.
Imagine your worst fears come to life and you feel dread like nothing other.
Now imagine that it feels like it lasts forever.
That is hell.
Merely a mindset. The complete polar opposite of feeling 'high' and loved and feeling like it could last forever (aka the experience of time slowing down)
Both states of heaven(love) and hell(fear) FEEL like eternity but are actually temporary.