What if Earth was the only place where predation developed as part of the ecosystem?
What if the 'norm' of alien life forms is photosynthesis, and therefore the very concept of 'killing' if unimaginable to them?
What if we are the most FUCKING BRUTAL life forms in the galaxy, and the aliens are horrified by us?
Then I wish them the best of luck when we find them. Because if killing is unimaginable to them, that means they've never seen Earth.
Not even being 5edgy7you . We'd seriously take advantage of that.
If aliens can observe us, surely they observe the universe & the way in which galaxies & solar systems/stars are formed & destroyed. Expand & are absorbed.
Isn't that predation of sorts? It isn't photosynthesis, that's for sure.
that's actually how it is
and they have better tech than us
better tech = all they need to do is "think" and we're pretty much incapacitated
yes they are afraid but unfortunately they could overpower us
An ecosystem will open up room for scavengers. Without them there isn't much of a system anyway. Once you have lifeforms that eat the biomass of the deceased it's not a far leap before you have predators.
We don't know how an ecosystem like that would work. And honestly, even if they didn't explicitly need it, how could a species develop to the point of space travel without killing anything, let alone considering the concept of killing as a possibility? It's not too hard to understand. Thing lives, you for some reason don't want it to live anymore, so you find a way to make it stop living.
If you want something we could actually have in our advantage against aliens is our stamina and ability to aim -- both derived from the way early humans hunted, and we're among the world's best in both things. A few animals are better long-distance runners than humans, but for them it's not as energy-efficient and we can actually consciously choose to do so.
What the 'humanity, fuck yeah' idiots do not understand is that our atmosphere acts like a bubble around us. Life here on Earth isn't easy for most, but up there; its an entirely different kettle of fish where more often than not, one measly mistake will get you and others killed. By comparison, our present problems are a delusion to what lays beyond.
If there are life forms visiting us now who are predatory (a routine supposition of /x/; Greys and Reptiles) and if they were responsible for engineering or influencing our early history, our hubris is going to be our motherfucking demise.
they're the end-users of ancient tech they have no ownership of. It works for them but they are generations removed from understanding it or replicating it.
That's where we come in.
And that's a Rubicon they should've never crossed.
>end users of ancient tech
Please elucidate on the tech or user bits.
Anything capable of FTL travel, or even inter-dimensional travel from a basic standpoint will possess weaponry that will trivialize us in the opening shots of a conflict.
What if other planets developed something worse than killing? What if predation is gentler form of gathering energy on another planet? What if out there, there are things more brutal than we can even imagine?
I think >>15443610 and >>15443832 have good points. I think what they say would only not apply in an eco-system that doesn't evolve through natural selection, i.e., competition over a scarcity of resources. That seems to be the fuel of the fire for life on this planet which, frankly, makes us all inherently dickish.
To see whether OP's speculation is plausible as all we'd have to consider whether life without evolution via natural selection is possible and likely. An eco-system that was created by another race wouldn't need scarcity to produce high quality life, but the likelihood of a scenario like that is low.
Our Earth didn't create it's first life form at the beginning of the Universes birth. If life originated elsewhere in the universe, there is a high chance that some sort of 'original' life began millions or billions of years before Earth obtained it's first form of life. They could be billions of years ahead of us technologically.
Another thing to think about. What if other species of life are much more advanced than we are, but that advancement is what caused them to eradicate themselves. We create nuclear bombs, and kill and impact the lives of hundreds of thousands forever. We are inhumane humans who are selfish and only seek power. In other civilizations of the universe, they could have advanced in the current beginning stage we are in of destroying or species, and have already killed themselves off.
What if predation and killing isn't brutal at all and is in fact a good thing? Watching birds catch fish or cats catch mice is fun. To conquer your enemy and take their spoils has to be one of the greatest feelings in the world.
Yes. What if there are life forms that perceive pain as pleasure, and now they scour the galaxy, trying to 'enlighten us' by torturing us?
herbivores are capable of doing plenty of brutal shit in order to mate, and even if you count that out too, then you got species that don't have incentives to move to seek food, avoid becoming food, or to find others to breed with, at which point all you got is plants. I don't see how intelligent life forms can form from that.
Under OP's theory, the Aliens probably wouldn't even like that the herbivores eat plants, but they do hover around our cities and stuff, so if they're that much afraid then they're better off not coming here at all.
yeah, I guess even herbivores would be too much for an species like that, but my point is that how would such a world even develop an intelligent entity, when they literally don't have to complete for resources, survival, reproduction or anything. If necessity is the mother of invention how would a world like that end up developing intelligence.
Pretty much I have previously had thoughts along the same way anon. Like having next door neighbours where all you can hear is brutal domestic violence all the time. It would hardly make you want to go visit now would it?
what if they are all so advanced they use very subtle psychic emotions to communicate, and us unrefined humans, not used to living in a society where you communicate in such a way, just go around leaking unshielded emotions everywhere with such force that our very presence overwhelms them?
Maybe humans become a drug, with adventurous aliens trying to make us happy so they are bombarded with joy unlike anything they have ever known. What if angering us causes such an intense negative reaction that they die on the spot?
What if this is the reason they avoid us so carefully?
The galaxy could be full of peaceful utopian civilizations, with us isolated off on the side, feared but preserved just on case any extra-galactic invaders hitherto unknown show up some day, and humans are the ace up their sleeve, activated to fight off the hostile presence?
>life cannot be described without death
>where there is life there is death and vice versa
>much like where there is light there is darkness
>good/evil etc etc
>life 'kills' death and 'death' kills life
>therefore there cannot be one living/concious thing in this reality not aware of the concept of life/death and killing
now think about the concept of evolution (tl;dr) and the hardship one lifeform would have to go through to make contact with us and you eventually will realize that noone will be horrified of earthlife
Plenty of herbivorous animals still fight over territory. Even if humans got their food via photosynthesis they would still kill each other for sex or money or to settle personal grievances.
Also most plants are surprisingly ruthless in how they deal with things when you consider that they aren't even considered vaguely sentient by most. This goes triply for bacteria and fungi of all sorts including ones that use photosynthesis.
ITT: Pasty couch potatoes think they are so bad-ass the entire universe has to keep an eye on them.
how on earth would aliens develop better technology if there was unlimited food from their stars?
Why do you think we discovered fire and then used it?
the animating contest of freedom is neccessary to create these things, from weapons of war to tools of peace
photosynthetic beings compete for space which presents the optimal absorbtion of solar radiation.
Assuming a sentient photosynthetic, of course they would have a concept of killing -- killing others in order to gain optimal sunbathing space.
What they wouldn't have is concepts related to hunter-gatherer lifestyles or eating.
Also, predation will develop whenever you have non-sessile creatures: it handles the question of what to do with the dead remains of what has been killed for space. You can either let it pointlessly rot, or you can consume it and absorb chemicals. Not necessarily energy, but chemicals (think: a roving venus flytrap).
Shit, sorry for the late response.
You are thinking aliens would be anything like humans. Those could be advantages because, for instance, why would aliens not descended from a species which used persistence hunting have better stamina than one that did, like us? Why would they be able to aim? Heck, if they didn't use tools by instinct and were highly social by nature like us, why should a sentient alien species develop a proper civilization at all?
What if they already experience emotions to greater extremes than we do, and all we put out is a primitive and simplistic version of what they experience?
Do 1D or 2D beings frighten 3D species or cause them to die for inexplicable reasons? No, safe to say that wont be the case with 4D and up.
You also don't need to get within shot of our emotions to be able to fire FTL objects at our planet and wipe us out, so the example is pointless.
Us being avoided could be anybodies guess, they could be in a strange way trying to 'mutually keep their distance' so we aren't frightened by them, not the other way around, or because they are capable of things only religious texts and mythology mentions, meaning their presence would lead to mass hysteria, chaos, and people trying to get them to heal their sick, fix their problems, and kiss their boo boos.
That seems more likely if anything.
if anyone has more of these please post them
more incoming. If anyone knows of any Sci-fi novels that make out humans to be a terror to the aliens then please suggest them to me.
One of the book series I do like starts with a book called 'Old Man's War' by John Scalzi.
We've been modern anatomically for the past 200,000 years. During most of that we think we've had little improvement to our social and technological skills.
This idea just made me hard..
There is a great pasta I see on fit from time to time about E.T realizing how aggressive we are and unwavering when motivated...
It talks about them observing us as our technology grew. They decide to eliminate it us as we are on the brink of technological break throughs that will allow us to contact them and sort of join the universal community
They are observing us from a delay from reciving t.v signals. By the time they launch their attack and the years or so it takes it get here we make that breakthrough... The blast hits and elimanates a huge part of our planet. But we survuve our technlogy survives and the last thing E.T see is all our satalites pointed to them with a short message we translate...
Were coming for you...
Its awesome i'm going to try and find it..
Mainly hitting being masters of thrown and objects and learning the nuance of conical fractures to make razor sharp tools from the most common debtrious known to man, rock. Dissecting our prey and learning to make binding cord from their sinews. Knives, needles, brushes, clothing, glue, pigment, medicine, food, and even musical instruments like flutes from their dead bodies.
To really understand why we would have been stuck in that phase of life we have to look at what happened in that 200,000 years that could have set us back. I've done a little digging and came up with just a few.
Most recent was 13,000 years ago. See the earth at this point was making the decision to come out of the ice age. We had glaciers 2 miles thick all over the northern USA and tundra and boreal forests covering Kentucky, Mississippi, down to South Carolina. At this time the sea levels were 400 feet lower than now too.
Then they rose. Coincidence every culture has a flood myth? We call it a myth because every record was passed on by verbal stories. Except the Sumarians who wrote it down. We aren't told to believe them either and to instead believe this rise in sea level was gradual over a the span of 300+years. We survived that shit though.
During this time the poles, North and South, changed position. What that means though is as the EMF field that surrounds our planet, causing a north and south, weakened, letting in shit tons of radiation before it restrengthend. This is when the poles shifted, or flipped.
What we don't know for sure is if the ice age was pushed to end by a huge ass meteor showers impact or from the radiation from the poles or from the change in habitate. What we do know is 75% of the megafuana on the planet (most everything over 100lbs in weight) died. This was only 13,000 years ago.
I found it
Read this one..
It is by far my favorite..
Gives me chills every time I read it. I have that one here
if you like it with pics.
I still got plenty more like it.
I just reread it and got chills lol.
Its not that hard to imagine at least on this planet with history of mankind there is nothing more determined and relentless than human spirit... When mankind decides it want to do something, nothing can seemingly stop us, We transformed our giant rock from raw natural resources to the megalithic infrastructure we have today. We have left our foot print is on every nook of this planet..
For some reason we have this ego, this unrelenting drive. Were arrogant, we believe we are the center of the universe made is gods image..
While that line of thinking is highly debated and dismissed we would not have these characteristics if we were not suppose to. No other life form that we know of has these characteristics. Only mankind.
When looked at with a little perspective, we are bad ass conquering mother fuckers.
Randall Carlson is an expert in catastrophic events, having found many previously unknown mega crators on the earths surface, and goes into detail on these points.
We lived through a couple more of those catastrophic events and out fucked and fought every other hominid on this planet too, stealing or learning from them.
Well said. It's strange thinking that in everyone of us lies this nature. pic related
Lets put everything back into a realistic perspective, consider the following:
These are our ancestors, and if any of you are wondering where it is we get the 'bloodthirsty' and 'egotistical' sides from, after reading that link you'll begin to understand.
The problem with the massive circle-jerk and hubris we display as a species, and which proliferates in this thread; none of you consider for a moment that being this violent to any level doesn't prove anything more than the fact we're primitive.
Those chimpanzees which raped and murdered the opposing group were the exact same species (like we are), and it mirrors exactly the kinds of events that happen across our planet, especially in less stable regions.
Ponder for a moment that since we're more evolved than chimpanzees, we could physically intervene and stop or even kill off those primates with relative ease. We're far more advanced than they are, despite them only being ~3% different to us in genetics.
With alien life forms, the gap is far more wild and far reaching. We could be observed by much more intelligent interstellar or interdimensional species, their reaction is at the very least going to be the same as that of the researcher who thought the chimps were peaceful. Those chimps didn't take over our planet and over-power us, what exactly makes you think we'd be able to do that to a species with even basic mastery of FTL speed or capable of traversing black holes to other realities?
>what exactly makes you think we'd be able to do that to a species with even basic mastery of FTL speed or capable of traversing black holes to other realities?
We'll you're setting the stage for this hypothetical argument to need these points to be assumed.
>basic mastery of FTL speed (travel?)
>capable of traversing black holes
>that we'd have to take over their or our planet and over power them.
Why don't you explain your point of view for why those points need to be assumed first. Argue your argument to us because I find it more fun at this moment to think of the how or why we humans may be the baddest mother fuckers on the planet and in the universe.
That barrier is the very thing we made ourselves.
After all, if we're so hardcore, why haven't we forcibly solved any and all problems yet, united, etc... without an external threat? Why is it that a chimpanzee has the strength to tear off a humans face and yet we didn't unite to show that lowly primate who is boss?
Even if such a scenario is assumed we're we unite against an alien threat, we're always going to in-fight based off our history. No empire lasted forever. Whats more conceivable is that a more aggressive or intelligent species could come here and colonize us, with the weight of most of the locals behind them (see; the fall of Montezuma with the conquistadors as a great example)
>We'll you're setting the stage for this hypothetical argument to need these points to be assumed.
That is exactly what is assumed here, that its only possible we're the terrifying thing on the block, when that is little more than an assumption.
What is far better is to quantify civilizations based on capabilities, like FTL speed (Faster Than Light), or interdimensional travel (blackholes or some similar means of folding space and time)
There are scientists around who will happily explain that the 3% difference between us and chimps means they play with sticks as tools, we build nuclear weapons and the hubble telescope.
Following that logic, if we face a species that is 3% different to us in a more superior sense, our smartest individuals would barely be able to keep up with their young offspring who could do all our amazing stuff just as school projects.
I don't think we'd always in fight to the extent that we have even in the recent/current past. We are very young in this new age of having near instantaneous communication and easy access to translating tools. These abilities will set us on a path to peace because the majority of us just want to live and let live. Our leaders won't be able to stir us up when we can just text and talk immediately to the people in the other country. When those two things are made available to the world then we can truly start propelling the world towards a greater understanding that our natural stance of us vs them won't include other humans.
That can happen in an instance when/if Aliums show up. Idiots will always stir shit up but the majority won't put up with it and in fighting won't be country vs country but much much smaller if it can even get started up. We'd all have something else to be our 'Them'. This new world attitude wouldn't be Utopia like in Star Trek but it would be closer to that than we are now.
shit I didn't put up 3? here it is lol
Thanks mate I've been reading HFY threads for a while and they're mostly poorly written or make humans look like literal gods or humans somehow win because they're shitbags. This is my favorite I think.
Well I wouldn't automatically assume a Star Trek outcome, though even that is far more reasonable than the idea that several billion of us will somehow win a war against a species with faster-than-light capabilities.
All they need to do is fire enough high-impact objects at FTL speed and if one hits our planetary surface, we either get covered with several hundred feet of water, or more plausibly our planetary mantle will crack open, leaking the planets molten core on to the surface. This isn't the only conceivable way they could kill us, stripping our atmosphere would also do the job, using high-frequency and high-volume projections of sound to level entire civilizations back into the stone age, etc... I could go on.
If they come from a higher dimension, they could conceivably create a black hole in our solar system or right next to our planet, nullifying anything we do at that point. At this stage, it would be game over.
Even if we are to assume they have FTL drive and made first contact or we were able to observe them I'd bet my last dollar that we'd never take our eyes off them or stop looking to find out where they came from. If they make contact and somehow communication is made possible we'd ask. If they tell us or we find out they have just signed their races death warrent cause if they fuck us or scare us we could always strap a shitty rocket to any random giant floating rock and set it on course.
Do you have any saved you could post? If you give me a sec I'll look up a series of books that you'd love if you like those posts.
I might but they're buried or may be copies of the things already posted. If you are looking for anything in particular I probably have it. I'd love to know the name of this book series though.
Wormwood poisons grasses.
Sandalwood is a parasite
Dodder vine actually hunts
Not to mention all the carnivorous plants that used to exist.
If they didn't have animals though they'd be more like ferns. Slow growing and without flowers.
Its been suggested that Jesus was a mushroom which opened peoples minds to other dimensions thousands of years ago. Not even trolling and there is solid evidence for this such as writing about Jesus literally being a mushroom when certain texts are translated, sadly very few people can do the translating so only 1 or 2 people have suggested this.
>Even if we are to assume they have FTL drive and made first contact or we were able to observe them I'd bet my last dollar that we'd never take our eyes off them or stop looking to find out where they came from.
You're making the giant assumption we have the means, or will have the means anytime in the near future to be able to monitor or peer deep into space. We don't have that now, and we're too far off discovering that in the coming centuries or perhaps even a millenia from now.
This also assumes said FTL or interdimensional species wouldn't also possess the means to cloak or hide all their frequencies and communications. This is something /x/ routinely carries on about with the Greys and Reptiles, though supposedly they can only be seen in dreams and abductions.
>If they tell us or we find out they have just signed their races death warrent cause if they fuck us or scare us we could always strap a shitty rocket to any random giant floating rock and set it on course.
This is straight out of 'Prometheus' the film, and not only is that film a 'le trashman' worthy, as is the idea we could send an object faster than a species that has been around the block long enough to have mastered FTL flight and weaponry.
You have things arse backwards. If we found out they exist, it would very likely spell the end of us, because we'd try to force a contract on them, and if they don't agree, that puts us immediately in a high risk scenario where an ELE can occur. (Extinction Level Event)
Remember, 98% of the dinosaurs were wiped out by ONE asteroid 65 million years ago. We are talking about capabilities that would eclipse that event.
The hubristic 'fuck yeah nigga wez gon' killz u an shieeet' will be the motherfucking end of us. You can be guaranteed of that.
It's by Keith Laumer. He wrote a lot of novels but had a series of them compiled.
The Compleat Bolo I believe has some of the stories from A Plague of Demons if not all of them. The other series I'd suggest would be
John Scalzi, Old Man's War
Fruit couldn't happen without animals, and animals usually kill things.
Even in the deep sea where they have some bizarre code of honor about the cleaners. But if they don't do a good job they are still eaten.
It's silly you are wanting to argue with anyone not believing in what you decide aliens will be like and act. There is no point since you aren't entertaining ideas from a 'What if' perspective. We can have a discourse if you present your ideas in that way cause at the moment none of this shit is real so any idea is possible.
What if fungus are aliens and they speak to us through their psychedelic effects. Maybe that's why mushrooms are illegal because our leaders know of this.
>It's silly you are wanting to argue with anyone not believing in what you decide aliens will be like and act.
Whats silly is in actuality all this text is being dumped under the assumption that everything is somehow going to be beneath us.
>There is no point since you aren't entertaining ideas from a 'What if' perspective.
The entire exercise IS that, of course its a given we'll face a species at one point or another that will be less capable than us, that isn't the point of why I countered your above listed mindless assumption.
What is more realistic is that its going to be a combination of the two, and what sucks a mountain of dicks about these stories is none of that is at all explored or entertained beyond somehow humanity being underestimated, and clearly not the other way around.
Though at this stage I've lost care, have fun with the 'more fiction than actual science' fantasy theme you have running here. Winning wars by being arrogant as shit and engaging in magic or wishful thinking ought to do it. Stay tuned for more text dumps of chimps in space.