hi /x/. i am a US postdoc student in radiation physics. for the last few months i have just started as an intern at a research facility owned by ONI. i was required to go through background checks and given civilian level security clearance.
an ex-military director of our project, now associated with a private (read: shadow feds) intelligence and research contractor, has confided in me the fed's modern understanding of extraterrestrials. this starts with some assumptions:
1. Faster than light travel is not possible or impractical. The conservation of energy is a permanent factor in the evolution of technologies.
2. The answer to the Fermi paradox is of course that intelligent civilizations are too spatially and temporally distant to observe each other by means of EM. Direct observation of the light from distant stars, the extrapolation of their chemical composition and the use of Doppler spectroscopy only implies the plausibility of Earth-like biochemistry.
3. Hypothetically if information which implies intelligence is encoded in EM sources from distant celestial bodies, we are viewing it too early. In other highly redshifted galaxies we are viewing them much earlier phases, which is why they are of such value to us in studying interstellar clouds and the formation of stars. It follows that the area of space with the greatest chance of having activity indicative of intelligence is effectively unobservable by EM.
Are these FBI 'assumptions'? Because the first one is wrong; what's shocking about the whole alien thing is just how quick they can get around places. You think all these ships and fantastic propulsion systems get them around, but its really a matter of 3d positioning. A ship can be 'moved' in a moment across vast galactic distances. The irony of the hands-off observation approach is the hidden ones could land in front of you in the span of five seconds, invite you into their ship (space permitting, hahaha), and take you to, say, the surface of Mars in another few heartbeats.
4. It is speculated that FTL transmission of information is possible. Several early experiments have been done which demonstrate the feasibility of transmitting quantum states which pass the Bell test over large distances. Our current systems have a dependency on classical communications to keep the states "in sync", but this implies that Einstein's "spooky action at a distance" is a universal principle which is mediated by means unknown. If the restraint on classical systems could be removed, FTL communication would be possible.
5. According to my confidant, the US has intercepted or recovered several "UFOs" in the past decades, and does maintain active disinformation campaigns about government interest in UFOs. Contrary to mainstream UFOlogist/History Channel tier bullshit, this is not because of 'mass hysteria', or because we gained technological advances, or anything else. It's because we don't want to admit how poor of a job we did.
6. While some are large, and all contain advanced systems of self-propulsion, none of these extraterrestrial devices are vehicles. They are unmanned drones. All have since been reverse-engineered and effectively destroyed with little actual knowledge gleamed. Operational devices were highly feared because their capabilities were unknown, so in most cases they were partially destroyed before any investigation began. Some mechanical equvalients have been established: camera-like structures, wide-spectrum microphone-like structures, radiation emitting and receiving structures, microscale or biologically made structures. Because of the fear associated with their activity, especially the important action of pseudo-microbes or nanostructures, the most important elements of study were all destroyed.
7. It is difficult or impossible to determine whether the behavior of the devices is driven automatically by AI or if there is "someone on the other line". Again, when there is an operation device within our reach, we destroy it.
8. No new elements have ever been discovered in compositional analysis. The matter which constitutes these devices is perfectly ordinary, periodic table stuff. However there were metallic alloys which cannot be recreated in the lab, and materials which are so nuanced and intricate it could have only been made by nanoscale machines or microbes.
9. These devices have been subjected to several different forms of radioisotope dating, and while it is difficult to establish an initial reference point, the length of time the materials have spent exposed to cosmic radiation indicates these devices are at least tens of millions of years old. This implication allows several important questions to be addressed:
>Why do aliens come from so far to play peek-a-boo with humanity instead of communicate?
They fear losing the device. They know communication would be untenable or want to keep interference to a minimum. These are scientific instruments, obviously not designed with the explicit purpose of being cosmic ambassadors, unlike the Pioneer plaque. They have traveled great great distances and would take millions of years to replace.
>1. Faster than light travel is not possible or impractical. The conservation of energy is a permanent factor in the evolution of technologies.
There is methods through quantum entanglement and forcing consciousness speed itself to re-emerge in similar vessels.
It might be rarer than your extraterrestrials can use and it is indeed the most difficult technology besides time travel and is the final key to anti-aging.
> What does the existence and variety of the devices tell us?
We have captured at least a dozen devices total, most in the last 50 years, because only recently we have improved aerospace monitoring and technology which permits their detection.There are probably very many intelligent civilizatons, all of which must have produced unfathomable numbers of these devices, for them to reach us by chance. Maybe it is more likely they are also out on the prowl for galactic microclimates, and the physical nature of our place in space has attracted such a large number of drones because they are looking for the same signs we are: viable exoplanets, circumstances which allow for complex chemistry.
Anyway, I would not have believed it had it not come from this well-decorated and respected source. I am behind 9 Tors or whatever, it probably won't protect me, but I thought it would be worth talking about because I had not ever heard this position even speculated.
Quantum entanglement is the issue at hand here. I don't know what you mean by forcing "conciousness speed itself to re-emerge", but the teleportation in question is of information and not matter.
>Maybe it is more likely they are also out on the prowl for galactic microclimates, and the physical nature of our place in space has attracted such a large number of drones because they are looking for the same signs we are: viable exoplanets, circumstances which allow for complex chemistry.
>because I had not ever heard this position speculated
Seems pretty generic to me.
It is not that the signal decays, because EM propagates without a medium (or rather, the medium is vacuum). Photons are unique in this respect that no energy is lost with respect to distance, and the Standard Model crowd now accepts this is because it is the only fundamental particle without Higgs. Or said another way, that photons are exempt fromt he higgs field everything else is subject to. Remember that EM is composed of relatively "simple" perpendicular magnetic and electrical fields, and that the direction of movement is in straight lines. We can observe radio-wavelength emissions coming straight from other galaxies and nebulae just fine, and they are useful for all kinds of things: but the issue is signal.
The signal/noise ratio of radio communications would quickly fall off with distance. If we were trying to observe early radio and television transmissions on Earth from a vantage point very far away, there are some principal constraints:
(1) The 'signal' portion which contains the encoded information will have been 'mixed' with a huge number of other ambient EM proportional to how much rich-space (cosmic bodies) were between them, and would probably be impossible to dissect, especially when the important parts, the information encoded, are very small variations in the original emission itself.
(2) Radio waves are useful at huge distances in space, just like they are on Earth. They are uninterrupted by the amount of debris (cosmic dust) which makes visible wavelength telescopy on very distant objects impossible. The downside is that because of the large wavelength of radio-spectrum EM is that it has very poor resolution. Look at this constructed image of jupiter as seen from it's radio emissions:
Do you know if there were any signs that could indicate different origins of these devices? Some way they could discriminate them, or are they sure they all come from the same civilization?
Also do they use biotechnology? Are the materials all organic or inorganic, processed stuff? Do you know if they managed to get anything on how they represent the information (binary code, etc)?
The important part was not my speculation on the abundance of devices.
The important part, the one I have not heard before, is that abductions, ufology, biological aliens, reverse engineered tech, ancient aliens and the like is hysteria which is actually welcomed by knowledgeable parties. While the truth is that we know very well that genuine UFOs are scientific instruments tens of millions of years old.
My response in that other post was meant to demonstrate that it would be incredibly difficult for them to make anything meaningful of it.
If they were a million lightyears away, the early television broadcasting about sixty years ago has a wavefront which will not reach them for another 999,940 years.
Yeah, I think the number and variety implies that they are from different origins. To me it implies they are from different civilizations.
Most certainly, absolutely used biotechnology or nanoscale machines like I said above. Fears from early researchers apparently led to their destruction.
My guy didn't say anything about discoveries which implied how any information captured from the instruments was relayed.
I don't get this. The scope of my research has nothing to do with what I put forward, nor the lab itself. My research has to do with theoretical methods of EM detection the DoD considers of importance enough to be a national secret. It has nothing to do with aliens.
This director, who is involved in many other projects and has been around for a while, told me about this information because he knows I would be interested in it. It has nothing to do with my official capacity. He wasn't relating his research to me by word of mouth, which I think is what you were implying.
>these devices are at least tens of millions of years old.
Devices as old as you're saying are probably cast-off drones from civilizations that are long extinct by now. Even if the people still existed, their technology would have advanced so far in the 10+ million years since the launch of these devices that they would be like sticks and stones compared to what the senders would have now. It'd be unlikely that they'd even have a record of having sent such things into space after all this time.
It'd be as if one of Earth's probes, that we stopped paying attention to immediately after it left radio range, drifted for another 10 million years before randomly crashing into something. Far from being "on the prowl" for anything, it'd be nothing but some long-forgotten junk.
I don't know how this connects. By planetary level extinction cycle, do you mean that most species have died since the Cambrian explosion? Because I don't see a need for a 'planetary-level' cycle. Of course the majority of those would not survive.
And why would a an even greater explosion of speciation occur without a corresponding niche? I mean, maybe the net change in species per unit time will be positive after a massive asteroid impact.
It seems to me a logical conclusion that we would steadily lose species number after an event like the Cambrian, while increasing species diversity. What force would cause the overall global incidence of speciation to be increasing, in the absence of causative environmental conditions to do so?
Also, I don't see what that has to do with EM, the lab I work at, or aliens.
However fast they go, the speculation was that they'd been exposed to radiation for 10+ million years. Which would mean that someone would have been waiting a damned long time if they wanted to get data from Earth.
lol the FBI is making an assumption. this guy is clearly working with rock hard facts.
top kek. i am a human being at a keyboard, what do you want from me. <3
GPS synchronicity would be impossible without relativistic physics, not to mention that general relativity was confirmed by observing predicted gravitational lensing in 1979.
It seems to me that the argument for FTL impracticability from the conservation of energy is very sound. From the most basic representation of relativistic velocities, we find that as V approaches C the expression for energy = infinity. This is counter-intuitive because the speed of light is finite; however, remember that the concept of speed as (distance / time) is only valid when the reference frame is largely still with respect to the moving body.
We know from physical experiments that relativistic time dilation is well modeled, both at the macroscale with cesium-137 clock experiments, as well as in particle physics.
Remember that time is a consequence of space. When the moving body is at extremely high speeds, the spacetime medium is disrupted, making the rate of "exposure" to time slower. It's easy to see in this context how the quantity (distance / time) is almost meaningless to describe the motion WRT a non-relatavistic speed observer. That is why rapidity R = arctanh(v/c) is used -- as v/c approaches 1 rapidity tends to infinity. That's why although the speed of light can be measured as a finite constant, it is really moving at 100% velocity, and there is no 101%.
Of course, this is at odds with what I have posted earlier about the teleportation of information FTL, but that's why Einstein called it "spooky". And I can hardly feel responsible for not being able to explain conflicts between QM and GR.
yes. It seems their work with biometrics are more profound than what we give them for. I have inclusive evidence that these devices are alien made and not from this planet.
Thanks. I may have some more interesting tidbits. I am really curious to hear what other people have to say but I haven't seen a lot of real responses. Oh well, the thought that biological aliens have probably never visited must be putting a damper on the /x/-phile crowd.
A thoughtful point that was raised (>>15260531) is the question of whether civilizations can exist for tens of millions of years. If these devices are made to last that long, travel these kinds of distances, and whether or not their behavior is driven by code (pretty impressive to last millions of years and account for every possible environment in the universe) or is directly controlled FTL -- it almost seems to imply they are on the other end of the camera.
And the idea that this technology would be peanuts to what they have when it was first sent -- maybe so. But if we take into account the idea that there are physical ultimate maximums and constants like the speed of light, the impedance of free space, the gravitational constant, & the conservation of energy, what if the returns on technology are progressively diminishing?
Imagine that the returns of technology can be modeled like a rectangular hyperbola, where at first it appears quite exponential, but then as more and more energy goes into it, there are proportionally less results.
Imagine something in nature offsets the biological balance. Nate then presumes to provide a solution to keep that balance. Now, we have seen and reported new forms of nature that do not fit within this balanced scale of realm. That's why I'm speaking behind 9 proxies to provide this information.
This guy is a cute impostor of me but his science pictures don't hold a candle to mine.
I'm interested to see where you're going with this though. Keep going. <3
>implying an random ex-military would have all the ufo info
>implying he would even come close to any research related to hyperspace
>implying he could share relevant information anyway
nice try op
Well, he's an ex-military research officer. I think that adds rather than detracts credibility. Now, his main job is working for one of these thinly-veiled military operations we call "subcontractors", which are barely private institutions. They have no profit incentive, they are composed entirely of people handpicked by the military institutions which pay them, they research what they are told to, they are allowed special permissions, etc. The person who told me about all this still supervises projects at the publicly owned ONI as a "consultant". Imagine that.
Agreed. I made no argument to the contrary.
Just that QM may imply that faster-than-light movement of information is possible through means which must be outside of GR's incomplete description.
>It is speculated that FTL transmission of information is possible
it is possible and has been done
This guy is a cute impostor of me but his science pictures don't hold a candle to mine.
I'm interested to see where you're going with this though. Keep going. <3
You made me smile. Everyone in my lab criticizes my technical writing as too romantic or prosaic. I think it adds some much needed descriptive texture to scientific dialogues, which seem to turn something objective into something featureless.
We also do ourselves a great disservice with jargon. Sure, specific language is necessary to be unambiguous, but it encourages the habit of making a new symbol for a new idea. Intuitive leaps of reasoning, which is the richest and most overlooked fuel of our scientific achievements, only happens when we connect new ideas to previously existing ones. Often it seems in a self-serving effort to establish how new something is, researchers distance themselves from the existing body of knowledge and play intellectual lock-out because they want you to become acquainted with their whole "new mode of thinking", using their language.
Very interesting. That is an entirely undiscovered mode of making 'synthetic' Cherenkov radiation, and maybe that enhances the position that superluminal travel of photons is possible. Thanks for posting this, very interesting read. I just sent that to a colleague of mine.
I was more referring to QM entanglement studies which pass the bell test, of which there have been many lately.
you made me laugh. I said in the very beginning that I was just a post doc student learning the basics. I don't even have a 'lab'. The information I have provided is a simple basis of study. Please stop pretending you're op.
Really quick. The signal/noise ratio of transmissions decays extremely fast; pretty much nothing besides Cold-War era ballistic missile early warning radar and high-powered radar beams used in planetary radar astronomy would be intelligible past a couple light-years without using radio telescopes comparable in size to countries.
I love you.
You know post doc is after your PhD, after you have been working in a lab on a dissertation for many years. You know very well. :3
Its a 3d model of a bacteriophage (virus). HIV is fucking scary and huge.
Ok weird, I recall my 7th grade science teacher using a model of OP picture related for teaching about HIV.
He did end up going to prison for secs with a student later on so there is that.
Yeah, bacterial viruses are tiny in comparison to plant and animal viruses. HIV in particular is the size it is so that it can fit snugly into a particular exposed surface receptor (CD4) on T-cells (a white blood cell subtype). The CD4 is meant to bind pathogens and trigger the immune response, whereas HIV exploits it to get inside the cell. As a result, the immune system begins dialing down the expression of CD4 to defend itself, an overcorrection that eventually results in the inability to identify and destroy even the simplest background pathogens we are all exposed to (AIDs).
Why would Wikipedia be necessary for a three-sentence summary of HIV pathology? You sound like someone who has never heard CD4 discussed or something. I was only mentioning one reason for the huge difference in sizes.
This is like someone saying "tea has antioxidants", and the response being "I can read Wikipedia too!". It just makes you sound sort of silly.
ALIENS ON EARTH ARE FAKE AND GAY
NO ALIEN DEVICES EVER CAME TO EARTH
NO ALIEN WOULD EVER GIVE A SHIT ABOUT EARTH
ALIENS ARE ALIVE OUT THERE BUT THEY ARE VERY FAR AWAY
THEY FIGURED OUT THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE
THEY REALIZED HOW GAY THE UNIVERSE IS
THEY REALIZED HOW GAY SPACE IS
THEY WENT BACK TO THEIR BUSINESS
space is a waste of time
there's nothing worth discovering out there
aliens who could travel to earth would know they couldn't find anything out here that they couldn't extrapolate on their own
space is just a bunch of rocks and some of the rocks have gay creatures on them
can't we just extrapolate this from what WE know and move on with our lives?
i tried to find a bigger version of that pic but no luck. i love those little guys too. :(
Are you sure about this? If the goal is to make our species last millions of years, isn't space the answer?
I could have said that better. Meaning, it's impossible or impractical. If it is possible, maybe it is only possible for very small amounts of matter, using incredible energies, which would make it impractical to accelerate and maintain for a large mass.
This board has been fairly intriguing the past few days, where as I'm used to it being utter bullshit. Maybe I'm getting more retarded. My MO is generally attempting to kill the vibes of whatever doesn't conform to "scientific consensus".
>Anyway, I would not have believed it had it not come from this well-decorated and respected source. I am behind 9 Tors or whatever, it probably won't protect me, but I thought it would be worth talking about because I had not ever heard this position even speculated.
>because I had not ever heard this position even speculated.
That's because you've spent time in counter intelligence UFO information.
The real shit is not going to be found on youtube or with a google search.
As far as I can tell, I am the only tripfag in this thread. And it was only to establish the authenticity of my posts, which worked btw, so that the conversation couldn't be derailed by putting words in my mouth.
I'm not one of those chronic narcissists trying to draw attention to myself by using a handle on an anonymous board.
I firmly believe that word of mouth stories of 'aliens' are just a test to see if you can keep your mouth shut for the next level of clearance .
Op failed and so did a few others at Area 51 etc
OP: 'Nothing to see here, folks'
The idea that UAP are all unmanned and here just to research is a cleverly worded diversion which fails to do justice to the complexities of the phenomenon.
Either OP is unfamiliar with the topic or deliberately attempting to mislead.
Considering the amount of effort OP put into trying to appear respectable/well-informed by using scientific jargon, I'd say it's the latter.
I'm not saying OP is 100% wrong- it's entirely possible that some UAP are drones/instruments, and it's quite an interesting idea- but this whole story of 'my manager, who is basically a MIB working for Halliburton, told me that aliums don't real and that there's nothing to see here, move along' rings false.
Nevertheless, an interesting thread. Try again tho, shill.
And for everybody not being paid to read this:
on a clear night, go outside and sit quietly by yourself or with a friend
clear your mind by focusing on your breathing and then consciously project feelings of positivity out into the cosmos. think of things that make you happy- friends, family, good memories. i think of hugging my grandma and hiking with my friends in the rockies, things like that.
make it known to whatever's out there that you welcome a sign and are interested in making contact. 'i'm ready' and things like that.
if you have a flashlight or laser pointer, it can't hurt to bring it along and shine it around a little bit. but be careful not to hit any planes! this is easy because planes have running lights.
wait and see if you notice anything.
fuck off hippy. That guy was trying to science and you`re all "fuck that guy, let me take over this thread and tell you the real deal,son...look into your soul and feel the vibes on mushrooms."
I fucking love deviled eggs.
That being said there's an interesting amount of sliding going on today, and this thread amidst it with people pretending to be OP and other various tidbits of misdirection.
Very interesting read/thread indeed.
So let's say an intelligent species is actively on the "other end" of these devices, and has been since the device's creation. I think that would mean there would have to be generations of device operators. Can you imagine if your family, as far back as you can trace, had this job? At some point this project would have to be what their culture was all about.
wait, this approach is unique to you? your colleagues disagree with keeping scientific dalogue objective? no wonder scientific authority is in complete disarray...
I was just reaidng this book called bankrupting physics and it was pretty astonishing...
Think about public servants. How it's a stable job that has got to always be performed by someone. If whoever was doing it earlier dies/retires, someone new takes place.
It's like saying "Oh no, how can there always be judges, prosecutors, presidents, soldiers, police officers?! Think about how many generations they'd have to use to keep those things running all the time!!"
>. The answer to the Fermi paradox is of course that intelligent civilizations are too spatially and temporally distant to observe each other by means of EM.
this is not how the Fermi paradox works. you do not need FTL travel to colonize a galaxy.
consider the amount of tech advancement we have seen in the last 200 years - from "no electricity" to "landing probes on mars".
200 years is nothing, absolutely nothing, on a galactic time scale. the odds of even one civ being a little bit ahead of us are gigantic.
and it only takes one civ to start spreading out. the time to colonize a galaxy - again, without FTL travel, using only tech we already have today like ion thrusters or solar sails - is still just a blip on a galactic time scale. thousands of years, sure, sounds like a lot to a human. but it's nothing compared to the time it takes a solar system to evolve or whatever.
basically, even if FTL is never even kind of possible, our solar system should have aliens fucking living in it already. not EM transmissions from several systems away - colonists, from multiple species.
there is no way to explain this unless we are missing some fundamental data, meaning either human life is inexplicably unique or there is some other reason that alien species don't spread out like this.
even if we avoid killing ourselves through some kind of stupidity like nuclear war, supervirus, climate destruction, etc. it is inevitable that Earth will eventually suffer a major extinction event. an asteroid or comet IS going to hit us. it is not, at all, a question of "if". it is a question of "when". it happened many times in the Earth's past and it is going to happen again.
right now we have all our eggs in one basket. if we think it's important for the human race to survive as a species, or to preserve our culture, we MUST colonize other planets. and not just "we got some guys in a greenhouse on Mars" colonize. we need serious, self-sustaining colonies, which are extremely complex to create and maintain. we probably don't have the tech to do it right now. it will probably involve terraforming and it will probably take centuries to mold a place we can live indefinitely if the Earth tanks.
we need to be pushing the envelope, right now, as hard as we can. we aren't even sure how to solve relatively minor problems involving radiation in interplanetary travel. the harder we're working to take the next step, and then the next, the better position we'll be in. if we just sit on our butts and keep sending nice safe probes, we won't have the need to develop the right kinds of technology until it's way too late.
What makes space permeable in the first place? Why the permeability observed and not some other?
What is the accelerating expansion of space telling us? Is something contracting?
What are black holes and could we tell the difference between which side of the "boundary" we are on?
It's also very possible that they have transcended these fleshy meat sacks, and moved onto something else.
I'd think that virtually any species capable of the technology we're discussing would have first put their scientific resources into survival before exploration.
>What is the accelerating expansion of space telling us? Is something contracting?
we don't know what "dark energy" is forcing the universe to expand faster and faster. there are candidate ideas but not much data. to my knowledge nothing needs to be "contracting" for the universe to expand. the universe is everything - not just all the matter and energy, it's all the time and space. spacetime itself is expanding. there is nothing for it to expand "into", because if there were, that would be more space.
>What are black holes
We have reasonable models about how black holes form and what kinds of things are probably happening around the event horizon. We don't have any good models about what happens inside black holes because 1) things inside an event horizon are unobservable to people on the outside, 2) you can't do math near the singularity without getting infinities and things because we don't know how to combine GR and QM. so in some sense we kind of don't know what black holes are.
but in a basic sense, a black hole is a big heavy star that got too dense and collapsed to a very small point, which does weird things to gravity, which does weird things to spacetime, which makes black holes hard to study or even talk about.
> could we tell the difference between which side of the "boundary" we are on?
uhm, i'm not sure what you mean. i have heard that crossing the event horizon would appear uneventful and you wouldn't even notice. on the other hand if you're asking whether Earth could be inside an event horizon right now - no, pretty sure that's not the case.
I see where you're going with the microbes and macrobes, but we're still not the only life at this scale in the universe. We're not even the most advanced, or the most advanced in our own solar system.
If its possible to send information FTL, but not matter, AND if its possible to create beings of information or transform into such beings (im not saying it is possible, but if it is, for example if we get to a point where we can upload out conciousness) then couldn't one, in theory, send an information container at slower than light speeds and then send the necessary data that composes the "information being" to the container FTL? Wouldn't this in effect be the same as sending a colonist or explorer? Or is that what OP is saying might already be happening now?
Anyway, interesting read, thanks OP.