Baldur's Gate / Infinity Engine Thread

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I really enjoyed Icewind Dale.

I'm finally playing BGEE for the first time, and I can't for the life of me create a damn character. This game is the literal definition of decision paralysis.

>>4023073
Character creation is lowkey the best part of the game

>>4023085
I'm not saying it's bad by any means, it's amazing, but I just can't pick anything. Too many options.

>>4023093
I love that feeling. When I play this sort of game it sometimes takes me a week or more to finish creating a party.

Sometimes when I'm done creating the party I just quit the game and play something else.

>>4022695
Why would you choke a man before throwing him off a building?

>>4024936
It's just easier on the shoulders, he doesn't have to raise him, just hold him there. Good posture.

>>4023073
having the same problem, i just finished a run with a evil swashbuckler and want to roll through as a good character different class but I just cant decide what to go with.

>>4025391
Go for a multi-racial group
have your token dwarf tank
your faggy elf that shoots arrows in the back
a mage or two
a cleric or healer of some sort
and an all around balanced char like thief-fighter

>>4022695

BG1 is the best infinity engine game.

>>4025458
I really enjoyed Icewind Dale.

>>4025463
it seems pretty bland to me.
I mean you start off in some snow bound village and go dungeon hopping after. Never played past the first dungeon full of undead

who else skald masterrace?
using a weapon with fast rate of fire (light crossbow of speed), otherwise I'm singing or using wands

>>4027034
The classes I enjoy playing the most are Fighter/Thief, Blade, or Cavalier(if I just want a tank with no micromanagement).

>>4027067
Stalker is fun and OP as fuck

>>4027318
I haven't really ever tried one because it seems on face value that its just a worse fighter-thief, since it doesn't have the thief skills (lockpick and detect traps are incredibly useful and set snares is OP in its own right). What makes them so good?

>>4027336
They can choose fav enemy, have free two weapons fighting style points, iron skins, lightning strike, haste and even entropic shield. On top of that they are more interesting roleplay-wise then plain fighter thief. I suggest north themed party in IWD EE:
1. Elf male stalker
2. Halforc female berserker
3. Elf male werewolf
4. Human female skald
I have so much fun just creating the party with IWD/IWD2 portraits.

just started a new game on Baldur's Gate EE with a moon monk
how fucked am I?
pretty much the only thing I do earlygame is kite and throw darts

>>4028885
That's how most of your BG1 playthrough wilk look like. It gets better on BG2.

Why doesn't Baldur's Gate have more weapons in game? It's so boring to play anything other than a mage.

>>4028885
Monks are complete shit for the entirety of BG1. What were you thinking?

>>4029067
it's my second playthrough, don't know shit about monks. did my first playthrough as a cleric/ranger, a mate of mine gave me that advice

>>4022695
i hear this game is great

I want to play this, but my current backlog only allows for one playthrough. I'm using the EEs and the EET, what else should I install? I don't mind extra content so long as it's good.

>>4028885
Well, you're basically a thief who can't backstab, disable traps or open locks for most of the first game. Luckily, you can finish the game solo as a wizard with 3s in all stats who never memorizes a spell, so you should have no problems getting carried by your party.

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>>4029140
>I'm using the EEs and the EET
>I don't mind extra content so long as it's good.
Or even if it's shit, apparently.

>>4029330
>pair of neutral evil villains
>oy vey, why do the goyim persecute us?

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>>4023073
Here, have one of my concepts. Maybe it'll work for you, maybe it won't.

Concept: Mercenary - PC will take any quest regardless of moral outcome that pays gold
Race: Gnome - Stepping outside the comfort zone for most character builds
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral - Charname's ultimate loyalty is to gold and will break any contract if a more lucrative counteroffer is made. Not above lying, cheating or committing crimes to fulfill contract, nor above saving lives at personal risk.
Class: Fighter / Illusionist - Max Con for shorty saving bonuses, otherwise typical FM build. Suggest DW warhammers for Gnome aesthetic.

Suggested Party Members
Warrior: Kagain - Dwarven Mercenary with largely same concept as Charname
Rogue: Safana - Correct alignment / only thief with unique ability (Charm Person) / available at level 2 so not committed to bad skills like Anora
Mage: Charname
Priest: Branwen / Viconia - former has unique Spiritual Hammer, latter has magic resistance / former has more HP, latter has more AC / both lend themselves well to mercenary playthroughs
Other: Garrick - Bards make the perfect 5th person in any group, high enough Dex to be a good backline archer, fast enough XP progression to be a better Mage than Charname, innate Pick Pocket saves Safana Thief points, and Bardic Lore cuts down on wasted spell slots / Identify costs fitting Mercenary concept

NPCs to Avoid
Montaron / Xzar - seem like good early choices, but their loyalty is ultimately to the Zhentarim and can work at cross-purposes with Mercenary's willingness to work for anyone
Khalid / Jaheira - same as above only with Harpers
Edwin - same as above only with Red Wizards
In general, avoid characters associated with organizations that have a hold on their loyalty, or whose personal code of ethics preclude taking illegal jobs (Ajantis).

>>4023009
Is this mod finished?
Also, are there any good mods for ToEE?

>>4029630
The Prologue chapter is mostly complete aside from minor tweaking. I don't think the full mod will be done before 2019 at earliest. The Prologue took a year to complete.

>>4030330
If a fan mod has a release date several years in the future, you've gotta assume it will never see the light of day.

There must be dozens of total conversions and the like that died when their creator gave up without posting his raw code and files for everyone one that has made it to completion.

>>4030345
Normally I would agree with you, but the Co8 persons behind this TC have been modding ToEE continuously for 14 years

Pathetic, the number of Beamdog cocksuckers in this thread.

>>4030494
Doesn't look like there's more than 1 or 2 of the 20 posters in the thread. And at 10% of the population here, that sounds about right.

>>4029630
>are there any good mods for ToEE?
The Circle of Eight mod is the definitive mod for ToEE. It's so thorough and complete that no one else has ever written anything for it because of the sheer scope of what the Co8 has done with the game.

I'm pretty sure the modpack is now substantially larger than the game itself.

>>4029630
>>4031252
There's Temple+, which is amazing. Fixes a ton of longstanding bugs, including the pathfinding bug, the secret doors bug, the Fragarach/Scather bugs, the Node graphical slowdown bugs, a laundry list of spells/feats, etc. Also expands crafting, improves monster AI and adds prestige classes and new feats (and adds features to allow users to create new classes, feats, and spells).

Also there's Co8's The Keep on the Borderlands total conversion which is separate from the main mod.

>>4030494
>Beamdog cocksuckers
no worries friend, I pirated :^)

>>4025412
good advice, real good advice

>>4032678
This, honestly. I recommend people use the EE versions over the originals at this point, but I've no desire to give Beamdog money to make some new game filled with transsexual half-orcs.

>>4032678
>>4036005
Yeah, but you're both still part of the problem. You're endorsing Beamdog's system when it's nothing but stolen mods that they cribbed from more talented people online. There's literally nothing that the Enhanced Editions do that you can't replicate with existing mods.

The correct move is to not play EE. Not even pirating them. Just ignore them entirely and tell others to do likewise.

short bow assassin is 2stronge, using poison and the arrows of detonation just breaks the game completely.

>>4036005
>>4036387
Treading carefully here, but what if I don't have a problem with Beamdog's leftist content insertions and actually really enjoy them? What if I like having the best things from fanmods professionally assembled into a coherent unified system under the official brand rather than having to cobble it together from various sites?

I want to do a fresh playthrough of BG1 and probably BG2, aiming for a heavier level of role-playing to try and make it feel distinct.

To do this, I am thinking of using the NPC Project mod for BG1 to add more intra-party banter like exists in BG2. Does anyone have experience with this mod? I only saw a snippet of it in use, and I wasn't enthralled with the writer's take on Imoen's personality, or the fact that it seemed to add interjections to basically every dialogue the party entered (but that definitely can't keep up very long). What is the quality of writing like? Is it variable based on the NPC? Not sure what to expect, and I don't know if I want to bother with trying it out and then having to uninstall it later and being afraid of some sort of save corruption from doing so (unlikely as it is).

>>4036424
Why don't you just play adventure games?

>>4036457
Not sure what you mean - like a Point 'n' click adventure?

The reason is because I've played the BG series through a number of times already, but I feel like I usually play as the "player", and tend to make similar choices each playthrough.

I think that trying a RP-heavy run would, first, allow me to see content in the series that I haven't seen before, by finishing quests and picking dialogue in ways I never would have tried otherwise. Second, I think it would increase difficulty in a fairly organic way by potentially forcing me to work with what I end up with, rather than just min/maxing the party and doing quests in a manner that gets the "best" equipment and rewards. By being forced to use unusual strategies, I can learn more about parts of the game I have usually ignored at the same time. Seems like there are plenty of reasons to do this... not to mention that it is, already, a role-playing game.

>>4036463
>RP-heavy
How can you roleplay in a single-player game?

>>4036465
You have an idea of what your PC is like, based on their class/alignment, etc. Then you pick dialogue options based on that mental image, rather than what you as the player would pick given what you know about the structure/mechanics of the game. Thus, if I was playing a paladin, I would deny a reward for a quest from a poor peasant, even though as a player I realize that the reward is a pair of gauntlets that are very good for paladins. Similarly, you try and play according to the other party members and any conflicts between you all.

So, in short, exactly the same way you would if the game wasn't single-player.

>>4036473
Wait, so you think that if you put yourself in the mind of Pac-Man and earnestly pursue power pellets for a cause you imagine, you are roleplaying?

That's odd. I always thought roleplaying was a form of acting requiring an audience.

>>4036479
Pac-Man doesn't have a personality, nor does his game offer choices that would offer insights into a personality.

Role-playing is about putting yourself in the shoes of another person - no audience required. Good role-playing can offer you the ability to see the world from different perspectives than your every-day one. Baldur's Gate, and ideally any RPG, tries to encapsulate this process so that you can give it a go without having other people around. What's it like to be a perfectly honest person? Give it a try and see what happens - sometimes people love you, other times you cause trouble for yourself and others, sometimes it means sacrificing something you care deeply about just to uphold this principle. Is a commitment to honesty more important than having supplies you might need for your next journey? Different people have different answers to this question.

Acting is a form of entertaining, like playing a flute for a crowd. The best actors, though, understand their character and learn to think as they do - that's why their performances are believable.

>>4036494
I sometimes play Pac-Man and sacrifice myself to the nearest ghost because I'm roleplaying Pac-Man feeling depressed. Other times, I roleplay Pac-Man as ambitious and somepac who needs to consume all of the power pellets as well as all of the ghosts.

Just kidding. Roleplaying is acting and requires an audience, though. This is Word of Gygax. Your argument is literally contrary to what the inventor of D&D had to say about CRPGs.

>>4036509
What aspect of role-playing necessitates an audience? Having a pair of eyes on you changes nothing in the substance of what you say, or how you made the decision to say it. Role-playing is a simulation - when you see something in the real world and imagine what your best friend would do if he were to see it, you are doing a small amount of role-playing in your head - it isn't necessary to imitate his voice and mannerisms out loud.

I don't care at all what Gygax has to say on the subject - he invented D&D, sure, but the genre has grown since then. He made up the rules for how to play a handful of characters in a tactical battle system, rather than many units in a more traditional wargame, but that doesn't make him a qualified expert on the philosophy underpinning role-playing. Experts disagree in all fields, so it's a given that any opinion on any subject will be contradictory to that of an expert if you look long enough. What you are describing is "acting", a veneer of role-playing.

>>4036519
I believe his argument went along the lines of: roleplay is a form of acting performance, and the definition of performance requires an audience. Quick glance at dictionary definitions kind of verifies his claim, but you've made great points.

Adventure games should also be called roleplaying games.

>>4036523
I see what his argument is now, but I don't see why - I don't understand why this process (which exists in your mind) would necessitate people standing around watching you. Dictionary definitions seem to vary somewhat, but I can't imagine they are ever very in-depth or cutting-edge - good to check though.

Since it's come up twice now, what exactly would you define an adventure game as? I've always conceptualized them as things like Zelda, where there is an adventure given to you (in this case, an action-adventure) but the character/personality of the protagonist is not really relevant to the game experience. With this definition, I wouldn't agree that they should be called roleplaying games because roleplaying is what I use to differentiate these genres: how do you compare/contrast these?

>>4036403
>I don't have a problem with Beamdog's leftist content insertions and actually really enjoy them?
Then clearly the post wasn't aimed at you. Naturally, some people are going to be happy that they rewrote the personalities of the existing NPCs like Viconia, Jaheira, Safana and others to be more in-line with their politics. And some people won't care that they break the fourth wall to denounce people opposed to their political ideologies like they did with Minsc. And yet others will see the flagrant disrespect and fundamental lack of understanding of the lore by forcing the existence of transsexuals in a universe where a handful of gold would've solved that issue for you immediately (and indeed does so in the core games more than once).

I assume that most people who play a twenty year old game though DO care about the plot of the game, and about their characters not being used for whorish mouthpieces to spin whatever sociological rhetoric is in vogue with the self-righteous left. Those're the people who that would've been intended for.

Do you ever play class like pure cleric, pure thief or druid?
I tried several time but I never feel useful enough

>>4036424
Overall, it's pretty good. Worth trying.

>>4036861
The mechanics of 2E D&D generally make pure-class characters underpowered compared to multi-classed ones. Since at high levels arcane casters are the most powerful, this effect is less noticeable for pure-class mages or sorcerers. Conversely, rogues are very weak on a level-to-level basis and so thieves should basically never be pure-classed in any of these cRPGs. When playing low-level situations in a high-level system (like BG1 in the BG2 engine), I think an argument could be made for having a pure thief, but they would be underpowered for sure soon after transitioning into BG2.

Druids are interesting because in BG particularly, they are very weak (spell set is terrible). Having a fighter-druid allows them to wear heavy armor with no related reduction in casting capability, which makes you wonder why the pure class has any such restrictions in the first place?

>>4036892
I suppose I don't have much to lose, so I'll give it a go, thanks. I ended up with copies of the EE versions, so hopefully these will combine to have a very distinct and fresh feel.

>>4036825
I'm not happy about the NPCs being modified, or sad. I play CRPGs for the combat, not the adventure game aspects.

>>4037121
>The mechanics of 2E D&D generally make pure-class characters underpowered compared to multi-classed ones.
Because they gain half(or third) XP while XP needed to level pretty much doubles with each level, leaving them only 2 or so levels behind in each class.

>>4037121
>spell set is terrible
Tell me about it, you pretty much get nothing interesting until level 4, level 2 spells in particular are fucking garbage

>>4037284
Yes. When you realize that the difference between a level 14 and a level 16 fighter is very slight, and that the former also has 14 cleric levels, well... I have no idea why they chose to make the XP tables this way. It also greatly diminishes the purpose of "hybrid" classes - why be a Paladin when you can be a Fighter/Cleric? What use is a Bard when you can have a much better Fighter/Thief/Mage? (I realize there are very slight advantages, of course, but quite slight compared to the benefit of an entirely additional class or two).

>>4037407
Level 2 spells... seriously. The offer of goodberries as an exclusive Druid spell is almost more insulting than anything when you are staring at that level's array of trash to sift through.

If you haven't yet, give Icewind Dale a try - Druids are more comparable to Mages in this series, in my opinion. The spellbook is totally different. I think there might be a mod for BG that imports the various Icewind Dale Druid spells, if so this would go a long way towards making them more useful. I was always amused by the fact that the devs chose to just patch over one major Druid flaw in BG2 in the case of Jaheira, by giving her the spell Harper's Call (true Druids don't have access to a Raise Dead spell via their spellbook).

>>4037557
Meanwhile cleric get silence, hold person and Duhm

>>4037557
Multiclasses weren't supposed to be able to specialize and the drawbacks on thieves were a bit more severe in a game where you don't know which thief skills are going to be useless/useful.

>>4037557
>I think there might be a mod for BG that imports the various Icewind Dale Druid spells
It's called Iwdification, just tried it in a new bg install, Sunscorch doesn't seem to work but Beats claws and alicorn lance do. They make level 2 spell not totally shit and since my druid is an Avenger I also have web.
Don' have access to level 3+ spells yet so can't say if they work properly

I've noticed that people on this board seem to prefer BG1 over BG2. I've never fully understood why, since BG2 is leaps and bounds ahead of the first game in terms of artwork, music, narrative, story and character. But I think part of the reason must be because some posters on this board are a little bit autistic (no offence) and prefer the step by step progression of BG1 to the crisscross of story threads and side quests in BG2.

Which do you prefer and why?

>>4039060
I prefer BG1 because of the well-designed encounters. BG2 has excellent ADVENTURE GAME ELEMENTS but the combat encounters are just janken.

>>4037557
>What use is a Bard when you can have a much better Fighter/Thief/Mage?

I'd argue the Bard is a better choice. With the 161,000xp cap, a Bard would be 10th level. The multiclass would be Fighter 6/ Mage 6/ Thief 7.

Right out the gate, the Bard is casting all the way to 4th level spells as a 10th level caster. The FMT is casting 3rd level spells as a 6th level caster. There's a lot of oomph difference between those Fireballs.

Next, the Fighter doesn't even have his bonus APR yet. That won't come into effect until level 7, so he's still operating at the same as the Bard before proficiencies. And speaking of proficiencies, a lot of people are unaware that the Bard can wield any type of weapon in the game outside the Composite Longbow. So he works as an archer, greatsword wielder, longsword and small shield user, etc.

The only real contribution would be the Thief part of the FMT, though you need 8 levels to be able to fully clear Durlag without outside assistance. And of course, the Bard's Pick Pocket is easily high enough to nick anything in the game. So in both cases you're probably bringing a dedicated Thief besides the character.

And then it's about fringe benefits. The auto-identify with Lore, Bardic Song, etc.

>>4039060
I used to like BG2 better when I was younger. But returning to BG1 (A game I didn't actually care much for back in 1999) and actually giving it a fair shot, I much prefer it now. It is much shorter (a plus), the encounters are better balanced, it gives you better tools to handle the encounters, high level AD&D is janky, the outdoor ambience is better, I like many of the random NPCs that never returned, such as Xan and Branwen.

Its still a slight thing though. BG 2 is still better than any other RPG ever made.

>>4039548
Bard uses the atrocious thief to-hit table, though. So good luck actually hitting anything. Even at level 10, your hit is garbage.

>>4039548
Ah, sorry, I was really thinking just in the realm of BG2 level ranges when I wrote that line. As I mentioned before that in regards to the single-class thief potentially being viable in BG1, the cases aren't so clear-cut. You're exactly right about bards in BG1!

>>4039060
I think BG2 is a better game overall, but I think BG1 is not completely surpassed by its sequel. BG1 gives a fairly unique feeling of being immersed in a fantasy world - small towns around, you can go any direction you want, and you might find treasure or tough battles at any time. BG2 though had very controlled exploration and was more "on rails". Look at this map image, and compare its exploration to any of the "wilderness" areas in BG2, where encounters are packed so close together you stumble from quest to quest. Many games do not convey this feeling very well (FF1, for example, has no sense of realism or consistency to its world). Additionally, BG1 is constricted to low levels which puts classes closer together in power level (see the above reply) and makes battles feel more relatable to the real world. At low levels, D&D combat is risky and unpredictable - an ogre will blow someone to pieces; every advantage you scrape together bring victory closer. In BG2 though, spellcasters make physical fighters much less useful, if a character dies you just cast Raise Dead and keep moving, most fights have a "solution" that renders them trivial, and it strains plausibility that the world is flooded with high level monsters (not that this could be avoided!). In ToB, hordes of orc soldiers with +2 equipment are all over the place (I think)... no one is equipped that well except the PCs in BG1, making it questionable as to what extent magic is present or accessible in the game world. In short, BG2 is a tighter gameplay experience, but BG1 conveys a unique experience in its own right. In a world with many well-designed games, I can see BG1 being praised for having this more unique characteristic.

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>>4040181
Sorry, I meant to post this image.
>>4040174
This is also all true. There are way more NPCs in BG1, so you can have different groups that match your PC and party theme easily. In BG2 it only takes a couple plays to realize that your party options are very limited, especially for an evil party. The game adds monks, barbarians, and sorcerers and doesn't give you even a single option for any of them? Meanwhile, there are three mage/thief NPCs and a bard!

>>4040195
There's actually way more thieves in BG 1, which is kind of baffling unless they actually intended Ironman to be the way to play the game, since they give you two great thieves (Imoen and Montarion) IN THE FIRST ZONE.

>>4040203
Well, characters do die permanently more easily in BG1 (though not at the very beginning due to the... 20 HP is it? rule)... but the thieves are more variable. Imoen can be dual-classed to a mage, Montaron is the only fighter/thief. Safana has a unique charm ability, Alora and Coran have very high dexterity. Also, I think three or four are good, two are neutral, and two are evil. BG2 has 3 good/neutral mage/thieves, a neutral thief, and a neutral bard. No evil options!

Also, two thieves at the beginning of BG1 is very pragmatic - thieves level skills slowly, so having two available lets you be competent with a better set of skills, so you can see what's useful. Imoen can stay out of combat and do locks and traps, whereas Montaron can use his fighter levels and higher stealth skills to let you try out backstabbing.

>>4040176
Eh, the difference isn't as big as you'd imagine. At XP cap for BG1, the Bard has a thac0 of 16 and the FMT is at 15.

>>4040181
Fair enough. Although in BG2, I'd argue the Bard's use increases because he can take overpowered kits like Blade instead of staying vanilla while the FMT can't.

This is the first time I've played Baldurs Gate. I've installed BGT, BG2 fix pack and the widescreen mod. Anything else I should do before I start? Any character suggestions? Thinking about playing a Cavalier human.

>>4040995
If you need to mod, those're really the only important mods to take. I'd say on a technical level you're ready to go.

I think a Cavalier is a fantastic first character pick. It's a strong, well-rounded character that isn't terribly complicated and sort of pre-determines any decisions you need to make throughout the game.

>>4040995
That's all you need for a purist playthrough. There are probably at least handful of components you'll enjoy from BG2Tweaks, as well, like having wounded NPC dialogues trigger differently so you don't end up missing them when you get a crit on a badly wounded enemy. Having spells be automatically learned from scrolls rather than having a chance to fail is another example, since if you're like 99% of players, you'll just reload if you fizzle it. Changing the stack sizes of items makes inventory management much less of a pain.

Things like multiclass grand mastery or the different spell tables obviously significantly change class balance, feel free to skip those ones if you want an experience that's basically 'vanilla, but polished.' The changes aren't necessarily for the worse, but they aren't pretty objective improvements to the game like many of the other components.

Cavaliers are quite strong, as are all the paladin kits, for that matter. You won't get much use of your bonuses against dragons and demons in the BG1 portion of the game, but the restriction from ranged weapons isn't a huge deal, either, since you'll probably want to start with 2 points in your weapon of choice, plus two points in your weapon style of choice. If you didn't have something else in mind, two-handed swords are a good choice for a paladin.

Infinity engine? Planescape: torment is still the best-written rpg out there.

>>4041834
The Dig was better

>>4042221
The Dig wasn't an RPG. Hell, you can barely call it an adventure game. It was more of a voiced animated story. And given it was written by Orson Scott Card and Steven Spielberg, naturally the story was good.

>>4022695
I'm going to play Baldur's Gate for the first time, should I install any mods? Or should I just get the Enhanced Edition?

>>4042315
No and especially no. Play it through vanilla the first time and see it how it was intended to be played before piling a bunch of optional content on it.

>>4042359
Okay, any early pitfalls in character building that I should avoid?

>>4042387
Not really. You can make a bad character, but the game is perfectly beatable with bad characters.

>>4042387
Cha is pretty much useless and Wisdom doesn't raise saving throws

>>4042387
>>4042746
This is mostly true. Charisma has more utility in BG1 than in BG2, but it's good to know that who is talking to the NPC is the one whose CHA score is used - so make your highest Charisma party member the leader if possible (drag their portrait to the upper right slot).

Wisdom is only used for Clerics and Druids, to determine how many bonus spells per day they get. For all other classes, it only offers a penalty/bonus to lore. Intelligence is used primarily for Bards and Mages, has the same lore scaling as Wisdom, but has to be at least 9 for certain things (like using wands). For classes that aren't warriors (fighters/rangers/paladins) there is no utility in having Constitution be greater than 16.

Pick-pockets sucks, and you shouldn't bother putting points into it (unless you want to save/reload on every attempt, it is implemented very poorly in the infinity engine games).

>>4042396
As noted, the game is very forgiving in that no battle should take more than a few attempts if you are even remotely close enough in level to be intended to beat it. Even intentionally poor protagonist characters can beat the game without much difficulty.

It is primarily a role-playing experience, so do what you want and have fun! Enjoy!

>>4042387
A pitfall that I see even seasoned players making is not understanding the break-points for stats.

Here's an example. Unless you're a Thief, there is functionally no difference between a Dexterity 7 and 14. That range means you neither gain or incur penalties to your Armor Class or ranged attacks. But you still see people putting their Dexterity up to a 10 (probably a holdover from 3.X mindsets). The same is true for Constitution. 7-14 just mean HP+0 at level-up. Strength is a little different in that it's 8-15 for it.

So, if you can't afford to take one of your physical stats up to a minimum of 15+ (16 for Strength), then it might behoove you to knock off some points down to 7.

Here's an example, ignoring mental stats (Int, Wis, Cha). Say you have 43 points to play with between Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. An even distribution would be S15/D14/C14. But that makes your character functionally as weak as someone with S8/D7/C7. Yet with those same 43 points you could easily make a character with S18/D7/C18, maximizing both your Strength and Constitution and having a Dexterity that is functionally the same as the one above.

>>4042930
strength does have a difference though, having a party full of pasty weaklings that can only carry 80 pounds is a pain

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>>4042983
This is very true, Strength is definitely the best out of those stats to "dump" remainder points into when min/maxing.

>>4042930
>character building errors in 2nd edition
>due to "holdovers" from a later edition
>mfw

But that being said, it isn't TOTALLY the same. There are spells that raise stats by a flat amount, so you can earn a bonus by using Draw Upon Holy Might and gaining +2 to your strength when you are at DEX 14, but not if you are at DEX 8. I think this is even more relevant in Icewind Dale, where there are more of these types of spells, but still.

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>>4042992
>have an 18/2X str fighter/cleric
>draw upon holy might to give +1 strength
>all that to hit and damage

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Is anyone else driven crazy by the FMV changes in the EE games? I don't know if I've seen one yet that I thought was an improvement. Really miss the sense of menace you're given when visiting Nashkel, for example. Why did they have to make these editions one step forward, one step back?

>>4042994
Man, that 18/X->19 transition... what a bizarre design choice. Very fun though, as much as playing a half-orc warrior pains my internal sense of game balance.

>>4042992
>Draw Upon Holy Might
Personally, I'd still let one stat be a dump and just plan around using magic augmentation. Gauntlets of Dexterity / Ogre Power exist in the game and they stack with DUHM. Besides, I'd argue that Str 16 / Dex 16 / Con 16 is still miles behind Str 20 / Dex 9 / Con 20.

>>4043010
If you have every item for each character planned out in advance, then yeah, that's fair to do. Stat distribution is still a little role-specific though. DUHM increases every few levels in its stat gain (although that's only relevant in BG2), and if you're casting it as a non-warrior then having high CON isn't helping you at all, whereas DEX gives AC and sling capabilities. Usually you're right, I was just pointing out that there are certainly some cases where you might want the all-around.

>>4043017
DUHM is self-target only.

>>4043018
When did I imply it wasn't?

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>>4043018
>DUHM
>>4043010
>DUHM

duhhhhhmmmmm

>>4043008
You can get the original cinematics back if you want: https://github.com/Sampsca/BGEE-Classic-Movies

>>4043225
You're doing Helm's work, anon.

>it's a group of assassin waiting for you in a hard to navigate place episode
The pathfinding is the most annoying thing about bg1

>>4043401
>Firewine flashes before my eyes

>>4043496
At least you can use the back door

>>4043518
That's all I go through of that dungeon now that I've learned my lesson. Those respawning elites, too...

The rogue's maze at the end of the game and Durlag's are almost as bad though.

>>4043529
>Durlag's
Don't think i ever reached the bottom, between the pathfinding and the way search trap work I usually give up after getting the Wisdom tome

>>4043798
The bottom actually gives you a bit more space to breathe, but of course still plenty of traps. The bulk of the dungeon is underneath... maybe 20% is the upper floors or something?

>>4042296
You begin to understand...

>>4043529
Why did the thieves guild have a huge wooden maze filled with undead and slimes under their hideout, exactly?

>>4046454
I think an NPC mentions that it's due to typical guild hijinks - the branch has a certain amount budgeted for trap-filled training zones, but if that budget isn't utilized fully by the end of the fiscal year then it might not be set as high the next time the budget is calculated (effectively a demotion for the department head). So they just squander it on necromancers and hiring that slime mage from that area south-east of Nashkel.

It's lucky for Mr. Big Bad that they did though, or he would have had a hard time finding the temple he was interested in.

>>4046515
Well, I guess that makes sense... but wait a minute, how come Sarevok and his crew were able to get through the maze without setting off any of the traps? I guess Winski or Semaj could cast [Mass] Invisibility to avoid the monsters, but the traps fully block the way multiple times.

And just one more thing; how did both Tamoko and the Iron Throne hit-squad get through without setting anything off and before we did? We were right there with Sarevok when he was teleported out by Winski, they'd have to get the information that he fled second hand.

I think there's a conspiracy here. None of this makes any sense.

>>4047449
They used the backdoor

>>4047449
>>4047475
It's definitely possible that Sarevok has been back and forth to the temple so many times to prepare for the ritual that they did seriously know of a secret backdoor through the maze that the player party doesn't discover. Or, that the traps were set up by themselves and so they just stepped over them so that you would have to cross them while chasing; or that they enter the area via a deal with the thieving guild, and part of the terms of agreement is that the guild pointed out where the traps are to them (note that supposedly at least a majority of the traps in the maze are indicated by green marks, I haven't verified this myself).

Tamoko, Semaj etc. were probably down there even before the Duchal shenanigans, doing prepwork for the ritual or something.

The Iron Throne guys are trying to investigate Sarevok, so it's possible that they snuck in either by bribing the Thieves Guild members or intentionally not disarming the traps so that Sarevok's henchmen wouldn't be aware that they had snuck into the Undercity. When they hear about the Duchal events (presumably have a good spy system in place, who knows how long they have been investigating Sarevok), they rush down there, but of course more slowly than Winski's teleportation, and they arrive after Sarevok has arrived at the temple but before you get there.

>>4025474
The point off IWD is to push the combat mechanics to it's limits without a story holding back realistic odds.

>>4047534
>note that supposedly at least a majority of the traps in the maze are indicated by green marks, I haven't verified this myself).

Largely true, there are marks on the wall near many of them. Some marks don't have any traps, however.

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Never liked D&D crpgs. If spell is programmed to suck, then you can't fix it (unless you mod I guess). You can make builds but they won't get you anywhere. While in tabletop I always bypass official rules to whatever I want, which is a definition of imagination. Spell roles low? No problem, homerule it a level higher. Problem with D&D is that it's played and designed by math nerds and rulefreaks. Too much rule following OCD, and not enough fun.

>>4049952
where can i subscribe to this blog?

>>4049952
>Problem with D&D is that it's played and designed by math nerds and rulefreaks. Too much rule following OCD, and not enough fun.
D&D is for us, not you. There are a ton of games out there for people like you.

>>4047449
Perhaps they had secret switches to arm and disarm the traps. Sarevok himself doesn't even need to worry about them, as his armor makes him immune to practically everything. Also it was an undercity, there should be a ton of entrances; I suspect Sarevok took the thieves guild route because he knew you'd follow him through it.

>>4042746
>Wisdom doesn't raise saving throws
it does in EE

>>4050946
>Sarevok himself doesn't even need to worry about them, as his armor makes him immune to practically everything.

Doesn't make him immune to the traps in the temple of Bhaal, though.

>>4050953
Prove it

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Never finished IW1. Started up my save and here I am. Been over a year and I forgot everything. Not kidding. Feels like I'm in for a good time and a lot of "practice fights" before I begin accepting death as part of the journey. No save-scumming here. No sir. I really hate my weapon proficiencies. I picked too many sword ones and I'm positively filled with +4 shit I can't even utilize. I don't wanna go into Chapter 6.. wahh! Also, should I duel-class Farnese my cleric some day? She's level 10.

>>4052664
I don't think it's really worth dual classing out of spellcasting classes.

>>4052664
>No save-scumming

As someone who doesn't save-scum in BG... I've never considered not doing it in IWD. How feasible is this? You're often too low-level to cast raise dead, but you're also usually in the middle of a multi-level dungeon and not really capable of visiting a temple. I thought maybe there were also a fair number of moments in IWD/IWD2 where you were stuck in an area until its beaten. What's it like playing with dead party members in these games?

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It's not IE, but it is Baldur's Gate.

What did people think of the Dark Alliance games?

Tfw Dark Alliance 3 never ever

>>4053664
>It's not IE
It's not retro either.

>>4053664
First was meh, second was pretty good. They're decent console hack and slashes but only good for one or two playthroughs.

how was the enhanced edition of planescape torment?

>>4052664
>Never finished IW1
Same, having to create my entire party bother me and the NPC mod seems pretty bad. Further I got was the dungeon with the dries I think.
And in the second one I always give up and uninstall before leaving the town

>>4054051
>*the drows
Fucking auto correct

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>>4053627
>how feasible is this? You're often too low-level to cast raise dead, but you're also usually in the middle of a multi-level dungeon and not really capable of visiting a temple
I acquired the haste spell fairly quickly because only 5 members out of 6 max team. Nothing really seems too far away after that. It helps to have a second monitor and something to read on the boring trek back to res.
>What's it like playing with dead party members in these games?
Frightening and exhilarating. Forces me to utilize the entire arsenal of potions and limited-use item abilities I hoped to save for bigger things.

Just started playing iwd1 again but on insanity difficulty this time. Makes the game even easier because the 2x xp outweighs the 2x damage received.

>>4054234
>make a themed party
>change race
This shouldn't bother me as much
>no puck bard
Get out

>>4053798
icewind dale came out in 2000, dark alliance came out in 2001, icewind dale 2 came out in 2002
are you saying we can talk about icewind dale but not icewind dale 2 here? how about BG2 throne of bhaal? that came out in 2001 also

>>4054234
Thanks for the detailed response. It looks like I ended up with a copy of IWD:EE at some point, so I'll probably give it a run with that angle soon enough.

I remember hating to have to walk in and out and in and out of that damn tomb maze in the Vale of Shadows; I'll see if I can maintain sanity while doing it to res people... having something to read is a great idea, although that area in particular might have some pathfinding nursing to do.

>>4029330
>Surfacers fucking hate me, but I'm okay with that because they get boners for me
who wrote this crap

>>4053664
To be fair, we may never get a new Dark Alliance, but at least we've gotten Witcher thanks to that series.

>>4055289
Read your stickies, it's not about when the game came out, it's about the platform/OS.

Fifa 2005 came out on the PS1 in 2004 and is considered retro for the purposes of this board. But you take Dynasty Warriors 2 which came out a full four years earlier on the PS2 and it's not considered retro.

Dark Alliance is an XBox/PS2 title. It's why you won't see a thread for it, but you will for computer games that were still happily running on Windows 98 like Diablo 2, Deus Ex, Icewind Dale, Thief 2 and Throne of Bhaal that were released at approximately the same time.

>>4054902
I did a playthrough on insane with Heart of Fury mode enabled once. The early levels consisted of kiting individual orcs around for several minutes each. The mid-late game consisted of throwing multiple casts of every Web, Entangle, Spike Stones, etc. floor spell, which nothing ever escapes from. HoF is pretty tedious overall.

>>4054030
Let's see:
>no retarded new content (no restored content either, C Avellone said stuff that was cut in the original got cut for good)
>UI is shitty like in the original but in a different way (looks worse, plays better, not an enhancement IMO, also the scaling option isn't there for some reason beyond retardation)
>game doesn't crash every few seconds (it used to do that, at least for me and on wine), runs natively but has higher graphical requirements
>less (usually dialogue/scripting related) bugs but also a few new (mostly spell-related) bugs
>map screen ruined forever
>zoom and stuff beamdog advertise
>game displays area name on screen like D2 (i think this is really cool) but it's paired with a shitty and unnecessary fade to black

tl;dr if the game doesn't crash for you, just install the widescreen mod and ghostdog's UI mod besides the fixpack (which fixes about the same stuff the EE does), unless you really want the other stuff I guess.

>>4042315
for the first time I would only install a resolution mod.

>>4053664
pretty fun, except for extreme mode.

>>4022695
I first played this game probably about 15 years ago, but me and my brother were only able to finish it using console commands and the gem glitch, plus other exploits like exporting a character from the tutorial in Candlekeep. At that time cheats were a novelty (gta III had just come out), so we weren't that inclined to beat the game fair and square.
So this time around I want to finish the game but without any of that shit, I actually want to learn the game mechanics and I want to learn how to build a good character and a good party whose abilities synergize well together.
I know the later dungeons get incredibly hard so any tips or build ideas would be welcome and since I've beat the game before you can't really spoil it for me so spoilers welcome.
I'm leaning towards just a plain old fighter play through, since I think it is the easiest class by far, but I've always wanted to do a mage playthrough, but mage class I always found to be hard as hell especially because of the spell casting limit and the chance to fail to copy spells down when trying to learn them ( not to mention how hard spell scrolls are hard to come by)

>>4057582
roll a stalker, level up to 13, dual class to cleric.

>>4057585
what's a stalker is that in the EE? also what is the benefit of dual classing to cleric?

>>4022695

anyone have any recommendations from the GOG sale?

>>4057590
EE or modded Bg1. Stalker is a Ranger kit that can backstab and a few mage spell. Dual classing to cleric from ranger gives you access to all druid and cleric spells (fixed in the EE).

Honestly I wouldn't bother dual classing for your first time multiclassing is fine though.
Imo good class for a beginner are fighter (berserker), Paladin (all kits are good but Inquisitor make BG2 significantly easier), barbarian or Fighter/cleric multi, Ranger/cleric works too but it's limited to half-elf (Divine spellcaster are a good choice for multiclassing because they suffer less from the slow leveling since they only have 7 level of spells and you get bonus one from pumping wisdom)

is there anything to fix the combat in BG1? Its intolerable. Pause, assign commands, watch fight for 1 second. pause assign commands

doing encounters efficiently takes almost as long as tabletop.

>>4057702
Use 6 fighter with a simple script

>>4057594
ToEE is only $2.67

>>4057702
Pause is useful in the beginning to figure things out. Real time works just fine for most of the game.

>>4057656
Are you saying that Stalker -> Cleric dual-class isn't fixed but Cleric/Ranger multi is? Is there any niche to the former if they both work? Backstabbing?

>>4057582
Just play fighter/mage multiclass, you'll wreck anything from the start to the end.

>>4058682
I think they're both fixed meaning you only get the first 3 level of the druid spell list (no iron skin), it's still a decent class because of the free dual wield and fighter apr

>>4057702
Why are you pausing so much? There are very few fights that I can remember that require pausing more than once every few rounds... things should be proceeding "as expected" between pauses. You have to pick new spell targets, but how long does that take? You might want to consider using some combination of the auto-pause settings and changing the game frame rate from the default 30 to get a different feeling that you prefer. RTwP is my favorite RPG timing system.

>>4057582
Any character can beat the game, so don't worry about your class too much. Just, honestly, pick whichever race/class you WANT the protagonist to be and that sounds fun. Warrior classes are very powerful in BG1, and have good rates of obtaining new loot. Spellcasters are potentially more interesting, but harder to play "well". Thieves, Bards, and healers have the advantage that the game ends if your protagonist is ever killed in combat, and these are easier to keep alive than wizards and fighters.

Keep in mind that you'll have up to five teammates, and in BG1 there are a good amount of each class / race / alignment, so if you want to see how wizards work, you'll come across several fast enough. No requirement to make your own character one if you don't want to.

Above all, have fun! BG1 is an awesome game, but its "open world" ideas might cause it to seem slow to you if you're more used to non-retro games. Feel free to move back towards the main plot whenever it starts to drag, so you can start the more fleshed out BG2 with good system familiarity (very helpful).

>>4058753
It's still a setting in the config file for people who want the original behaviour, as well.

Just finished a solo run on HoF in Icewind Dale enhanced edition. did it with a multiclass cleric/ranger. It was tedious at the start, fun in the middle and easy at the end, though it's probably my own fault since I cheesed almost everything with summons.

Since I can't get enough, now I'm doing a two person party, a dragon disciple and a kensai I'm gonna dual class to a thief, without using any summons throughout the game, except find familiar to find traps.

Anyone else got suggestions for fun challenging party composition?

>>4060973
>enhanced edition
Nah, nor do you deserve one.

>>4057590
>>4057594
>>4058459
>>4062521
Oh yeah, we're
inflitrated by SJWs.

>>4057594
IWD2 for $4 was on sale a few days ago, get it now while it lasts

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You're in the club and this guy slaps your girlfriend's ass.

What do you do?

>>4065953

Leave the club, read the scroll.

>>4065953

End him, because I play Exalted and not D&D.

>>4066030
>being proud of playing Dragonball Z WoD

>>4029392
Cool!

>>4023009
IWD is really special.

>>4062898
>he thinks the EE in ToEE stands for enhanced edition
I chortled. I chortled hard.

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>>4067401
Ah, now it makes sense. Couldn't figure out why he linked that.

>>4022695
Honestly I love the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series, but combat is kind of a let down. What's the point of having turns if combat flows in real time? I wish either they had chosen all real time or strictly turn based like x-com or jrpgs. This in-between thing lacks intuition and accuracy.
I know you can pause at any time, but that becomes tedious and imprecise, especially when it comes to figuring out if your character has finished the action they were assigned (for example drinking potions, casting spells etc.)
Still great game though, but that part could have been improved a lot.

>>4068570
enhanced edition has an option to only use combat animations when your character is actually attacking, instead of doing cosmetic animations constantly. Makes working with turns a lot easier

Do I dual or multi Fighter/Tjief?

>>4068570
Not sure I understand your complaint. I think the combat is a highlight of these series. In turn-based games like JRPGs, I have to go through the tedium of hitting "attack" every character, every random encounter, even when they're way below my level. In BG, trash enemies like gibberlings don't require a pause, or even a click if you have party AI enabled. The combat is too complex though for real-time. It's perfect the way it is.

Figuring out if they've finished an action? Well, their health went up by 9 points if they finished drinking the health potion, and there's sometimes a line in the feedback box describing that they drank a potion. If they cast a spell, you either see the spell effect or the buff is already on their character portrait.

If you are really having trouble though, you can go into the feedback or autopause options, can't remember which, and there's an option to "pause automatically after each turn" or "pause after a character finishes a spellcast", etc. Too many options enabled there is tedious, but it might help you out.

>>4069842
Whatever you want? They're both viable depending on what you're doing, although I personally find dual-classing to be annoying to manage.

>>4069842
I prefer multiclases for F/T. Just being a fighter for a fair bit of the game isn't very fun, and in the late game, unless you want to cheese everything with traps, only having thief HLAs gets old pretty fast.

>>4069842
dual class for that tasty use any item on your kensai