Why are old jRPGs so much better? I honestly didn't even

I agree. What I like about them is that most of the dungeons actually require some effort to find your way through and may even take multiple trips to complete, whereas in most later games you might veer off the path for a second to pick up a chest but are otherwise pretty much walking in a straight line to the end.

I just think the simple sprites are cozy.

>>3951734
>I assume there are contemporary rpgs that function in a similar vein, but I've yet to find some.
Etrian Odyssey. Five games in the series, four in English, 1 and 2 got remakes that have an original mode and a story mode, very good first-person dungeon crawlers.

challenge is great, but I prefer it when they introduce gimmicks to spice up the battle system like ATB (FFIV) or timed hits (SMRPG)

>>3951787
Timed hits is a gimmick, they get old pretty fast.

File: e1a3bab570847503e161129706017916bc2f1dfd_hq[1].gif (987KB, 500x257px) Image search: [Google]

987KB, 500x257px

>>3951806
I like that gimmick though, especially when you have weapons and special attack with their own timings
I find it more involving than regular DQ type combat

>>3951734
what do you think of phantasy star IV? I just got it.

>>3951806
>Timed hits is a gimmick
He even said it was a gimmick himself.

what are some comfy dq clones?
momotaro densetsu
glory of heracles

??

>>3952302
Maybe he just wanted to reiterate it.

>>3952330
sansara naga

>>3952335
He just wanted to reiterate it.

>>3952330

I've always had a soft spot for Destiny of an Emperor.

>>3952338
oh and lennus 2 and silva saga 2

>>3952341
Just to reiterate it.

They do character designs better, and interesting characters are enticing. That's pretty much their selling point.

>>3951734

For me it's mainly that when the hacks who make these things have the opportunity to include spectacle, they do so, and not only that but they prioritize it over interactivity. 3D animation and voice acting are excuses to make the player wait instead of doing something, and the children (and childish adult nerds) who play these things are generally accepting of that because tedium is kinda central to the JRPG genre anyhow. You're gonna be waiting, whether you're waiting for your character to improve or waiting for a poorly written cutscene to end. But when you're waiting for your character to improve, at least you're doing the busywork of grinding, which makes it at least tolerable to me. (When I was a kid I even liked it.)

Also note the huge pile of belts and pauldrons and crap that they'll hang all over a character half the time. That could have happened in the 80's too... but only in illustrations printed in an instruction manual or a magazine advertisement. The games couldn't handle it so the player was free to remain ignorant of it, and that is to the player's benefit. And people didn't yet expect to see stupidly convoluted stories yet... the genre had not yet learned to try to suffocate itself to death with clutter.

Super-deformed designs couldn't be very effectively shown either, which is another thing I like. Nor could the more emo sort of anime styles. Neither LEGO-man Cloud nor tortured-looking girlboy Squall could be depicted as such on the likes of the NES. So the player was free to imagine that characters were actually cool-looking in whatever way that person might have preferred.

>>3952386
>They do character designs better,
Sure, baby faced women with big tits and emo teenagers with spiky hair is good design.

>>3951775
Yeah, but as you said, they are dungeon crawlers and not JRPGs.

I think it's a case of focus.

Older RPGs are catering to a very niche audience, modern games have to cater to a wider audience.

>>3951734
>Why are old jRPGs so much better?
Because it's an interactive book and later JRPGs are interactive movies.

File: DQ1366451589595.jpg (54KB, 591x489px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 591x489px

Random battles on older RPGs weren't bad because they were quick. Grinding on DQ games can be quite relaxing. You just end up memorizing each strategy for each enemy and go through the menues fast as shit.
CD-based RPGs did random encounters wrong due to loading times and animations that took forever.

Dragon Quest hasn't changed very much over the years.

>Get to new area
>Kill a few new tougher enemies
>Buy the towns best gear
>Repeat until can clear the dungeon

>>3952527
Don't fix what ain't broken.

>>3952364
JUST

tl;dr:

OP discovered the Dragon Quest series, which Japan has known forever to be the best RPG franchise

>>3952838
Japanese kids don't play DQ either, they are all over Minecraft and CoD.

File: canadian shopper.jpg (92KB, 634x476px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 634x476px

>>3952469

You really put that well. I know there are other things involved like nostalgia and 8bit chiptune catchyness, but that describes modern gaming well.

>>3951734
Play FFIII NES,
You'll have to manage the dungeon the same as any other old JRPG, but also fix your team as you can change your characters classes on the fly

>>3951734
Depending on which ones you're speaking of, they aren't, and that's mostly nostalgia talking.
Some of them are easily overshadowed by their contemporaries along with sequels, arranged ports, and even some remakes.

However, I feel like some of them are still pretty good and there are also some aspects of the originals of games that have superior ports that are somewhat interesting (if only to exploit).

For example: this is why I still feel that Dragon Warrior IV is still a good game, even though Dragon Quest IV on DS (PS1 as well, but we never got that, and the mobile port IS UGLY AS FUCK AND SUCKS A DICK) is technically superior (and also a good game).
I honestly feel like not having entire control of your party is somewhat interesting and despite complaints and memes, they actually can do a pretty decent job if you don't give them opportunities to fuck shit up (hell, even Crift/Cristo/Kiryl won't spam Beat/Whack and Defeat/Thwack if he "learns" that it's not going to work on a boss, and actually will use it against normal enemies you didn't think it'd be effective on, and not to quite such a ridiculous extent as people have exaggerated either). Now, at times, this also means not always giving them things you'd like to give them or hoping they don't do things you don't want them to, but that's part of what attracts me to it. If it really bugs the shit out of you, then you can always just sacrifice the ability to exchange members on the fly with a game genie code and take direct command of your party. However, I feel like you weren't necessarily supposed to do this in Chapter 5, especially since you get the Transform spell (which regrettably you couldn't get in the DS version) to let your main Hero(ine) mimic any of your allies. This was neat as you could double up on specific spell sets. The NES casino was also possible to exploit for Metal Babble Shields and had the Mini/Tiny Medals work differently (as a trade-in system rather than a reward system).

>>3952469
ding ding ding

been saying this for years. Not that I mind the interactive movies; they have their place, but that doesn't mean interactive books have to die come on now

>>3951734
Because they actually understand what makes a JRPG compelling, even if there are snags on the way. Hint: It's having to actually manage your resources to do anything without grinding in a reasonable timeframe. DQ in particular lost a *lot* of what made it interesting when it started allowing you to pile your bag full of herbs and cast healing spells from all the way back in the wagon even in the middle of a dungeon.

File: jrpg tier.png (73KB, 1164x805px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 1164x805px

>>3951734
Old and new jrpg are more or less equally good, but it depends on the series.

>>3953781
What a fucking terrible list.

>>3953781
Holy shit that is the worst taste I've ever seen in regards to JRPGs in my life

>>3953781
>/v/
>Grate
>Dragon Quest

Funny, from what I've seen, /v/ usual shits on DQ for being too generic and boring.

>>3953781
what an incredibly bad list

>>3952330
Ninjara Hoi developed by Hudson with God tier Akira Kitamura as writer, the game deal is that doesn't take itself seriously, for example the is a village that has it's own baseball stadium.

File: Sakuma by Toriyama.jpg (189KB, 1032x1036px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 1032x1036px

>>3954354
>Akira Kitamura
I meant Akira Sakuma.

>>3952792
Can someone give me a rundown

It seems that they took more time to write a beautiful and compelling story before,nowadays it's just about graphics and if it will sell enough

>>3953781
You should be embarrassed

>>3953781
>SMT that high and SaGa so low

Really activates the almonds.

File: ff2.png (9KB, 256x224px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 256x224px

JRPGs in the days of old really were shit. I'm not talking about the JRPGs that were groundbreaking in their time but letter became cases of the "Seinfeld is unfunny" trope. I just mean there were further considerations beyond games having what we may now consider dated graphics or dated gameplay mechanics. For instance, there was Nintendo's utterly retarded licensing and censorship policies hampering localization efforts, and even interfering with the creative process at the core of a game's conception and development. Dragon Quest III's developers, for instance, had to drop planned content before Nintendo would allow the game to be published at all.

tl;dr - Games these days have a great deal more creative freedom. This means JRPGs can delve into all the nudity and controversial themes they want, granted their developers don't mind being rated up by the ESRB for it. This is more meaningful to me than forcing myself to play and re-play a bunch of heavily censored Dragon Quest clones for the novelty of their having some historical significance.

Also, let's not over-glorify Dragon Quest. There were far more innovative JRPGs for their time.

File: 1458779001746.png (10KB, 555x198px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 555x198px

>>3955132
>a beautiful and compelling story
>NES-era JRPGs

>>3955167

Not to be that guy but you sound entry-level as fuck. DQ is simple but there's a reason it's the most beloved JRPG franchise in Japan. Saying you dislike it is basically admitting you have shit taste.

>>3951734
I've been trying to figure that out myself.

Honestly I just think there was more interest in creating original but good stories and more diversity. Today I feel gameplay suffers more for focus on story, this doesn't seem to be as much as a problem with older jrpgs. Another thing is now your options for jrpgs are pretty limited honestly. You either have the BIG franchises like FF (which is more of a arpg then turn based) or pokemon or you have weeb shit like nep. In the 5th and 6th gen you had a pretty wide variety of stuff from multiole companies, it was nice and offered more options.

Still, things aren't hopeless. Right now I eagerly await DQXI, but even then that still is a big name series.

>>3955208
>but there's a reason

Well... what is it?

>>3955281
Consider this.

>Dragon Quest III
>go through a dungeon that you're not quite ready for yet
>MP is a *major* consideration, you can't spam blindly
>have to stretch your medical herbs and healing spells as far as they'll go, have your weaker characters parry on rounds that they aren't casting on
>have to rely on status effect spells to stop enemies from being able to fight back because damage spells aren't efficient enough
>party gets through a rough fight, everyone is at 1/4 HP
>huge MP/item cost to deal with it
>oh fuck someone died
>no easy mode resurrection, it's entirely possible you won't have Vivify or a leaf to bring them back, you'll probably have to teleport out and to a town to get them back on their feet

>Final Fantasy VI
>go through a dungeon you're not quite ready for
>oh wait who the fuck am I kidding, you can tackle anything the moment they're unlocked
>MP is a non-issue for most of the game due to Osmose and low costs vs a high MP pool, plus many high power/AoE abilities use no MP
>status effects are pointless because enemies die so fast, plus resistances are all over the place
>enemies do fuck all damage and aren't likely to get more than one turn before you wipe them off the map
>party somehow ends up with 1/4 HP after a fight? AoE cure spam doesn't even dent your reserves, everyone's back up to full.
>someone died? whatever phoenix down/life, let's keep going

>>3955281
akira toriyama, duh

>>3955836
But all you lose if your party dies is a bit of gold. You keep XP and treasures.
Compare that to games where you have to reload, retrieve your dead party from hostile territory or simply have to restart completely.

>>3955851
It's no Wizardry, but the point is that it at least has *something* going for it and that something is not being the same level of braindead as games like FFVI.

>>3954359
its okay all of /vr/ seems to have a boner for talking about how great Kitamura is

>>3953781
this is the worst list I've ever seen

>>3955836
yeah you can grind faster on ff than dq

so what

>>3957584
If you didn't have autism I wouldn't have to explain this to you. In a genre that is fundamentally about resource management, the game that actually needs you to bother with it is inherently better than the game where you can slap the controller with your dick and still get good results.

>>3953715
JRPGs aren't about numbers going up, they're about the thrill of numbers going down

>>3953781
Why does this board have such a hard on for Breath of Fire

>>3958740
>this board
lol, it's just one autistic animal fucker that has a hard on for kat
most other people will tell you that 3 and 4 are the only good ones

>>3953781
this list made me have regret upon humanity and its existence

>>3952330
Little Ninja Brothers is an interesting one. It's 80% action-based battles, 20% classic DQ-style ones. The Ancient Chinese setting is very pleasant, though, and the music is nice and sounds unusual for the NES. It is also one of those rare two-player JRPGs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9okMZOsXF0

>>3953781
>Final Fantasy and Pkemon are bad because they are popular.
Never change /v/.

>>3956257
Akira Sakuma is also a God tier developer.

Interesting thread

>>3953781
This is a really terrible list. I guess there're one or two accurate listings, maybe.

>>3952390
>And people didn't yet expect to see stupidly convoluted stories yet
Convoluted stories have been a staple of the genre since the original Final Fantasy.

>>3959790
>Save the princess, Light Warriors! Btw relight the crystals too!
>Oh shit it's a timeloop!

It isn't really that convoluted.

>>3951734

They were inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, but put through a Japanese filter.

The gameplay is shallow. But taking this same concept and updating it is what they should be doing.

Instead we get NSYNC.

>>3959876
It isn't Primer, but a time loop is still pretty convoluted and not the kind of a plot device you'd usually associate with a quasi-medieval fantasy game. Come to think of it, it is a lot like the science fiction stuff in Ultima.

I guess my point is that people (not saying you) generally tend to forget that early JRPGs stories weren't THAT simple. The editor-defying fractal-like bewildering complexity in JRPG stories didn't come out of nowhere. Maybe you couldn't have predicted it at the time, but if you look back now you can see it build upon itself gradually.

>>3953781
Good list, ignore the samefag.

>>3951734
Im excited to play FF1 this summer and beat it.

>>3960180
"Beat" your head in with a cinder block

>>3960207
Rude.

>>3960180
Which version?

>>3960207
>being this butthurt over people liking jrpgs

LMAO I see you crying in every jrpg thread, your tears are delicious

>>3959140
The Chinese World series should be more popular.

>>3959140
That game kicks ass and has 4th wall breaking superior to MGS

>>3952792
MY IRON LUNG

Old JRPGs aren't better you circlejerking reddit fuck. every era had garbage and great games

File: 1411627612964.png (25KB, 499x468px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 499x468px

>>3953781
>SaGa on pleb tier
>DQ, Xeno, Mana and Kiseki on "Grate"

Sounds like /v/ alright.

>>3960242
VC. I have a NES classic and its the main game I havent bothered to start because I dont have time.

Im excited because I know it'll be interesting. Any tips?

>>3955167
>Also, let's not over-glorify Dragon Quest. There were far more innovative JRPGs for their time.

Dragon Quest never really innovated anything. It's popularity stems from taking all the previous flawed attempts at translating table-top games into computer games and filtering out the bullshit to create something simple, fun, and accessible.

>>3962038
>SaGa on pleb tier

This is true though. The original Game Boy SaGas were great, but everything after that is autism food.

>>3962689
Which in turn, was pretty innovative.

>>3959192
Well Final Fantasy is bad, so half-right.

File: this fucking guy.png (48KB, 537x177px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 537x177px

>>3951734
Because for whatever reason idiots now think turn based is inherently bad. You get babies like pic related who can't handle more classic jrpgs. I hate to sound like a nostalgiafag but jrpgs really are a genre that got worse as time went on.

>>3962758
>One guy with a different opinion means everything old is good

>>3962641
Don't give the white mage a girl's name.

>>3962809
toooooo late

>>3962641
>any tips
Yeah don't play FF

>>3962692
The open world SaGas are asset tours.

>>3962038
There's more to LoH than Kiseki.

>>3962692
>but everything after that is autism food.
Just because you are scared of actually having to make decisions instead of playing games on autopilot doesn't make those games autism food or bad.
>>3963615
>Implying /v/ played anything before the Trails trilogy
Absolute best case scenario they've played the PSP Gagharv remakes.

>>3963985
>Just because you are scared of actually having to make decisions instead of playing games on autopilot doesn't make those games autism food or bad.

My post had nothing to do with in-game mechanics. I don't think you understand what "autism food" means. Just take a look at the SaGa general sometime.

>moe
>moe
>more moe
>Asellus moe with oversized tits
>spoilered hentai
>more moe

What little discussion goes on is usually shilling for non-retro games, or just /a/-tier garbage. Thus, autism.

>>3953781
>Grate
>SMT
>Persona under weeaboo shit
What awful taste is this

>>3964020
Ah, you're that butthurt liar again, should have expected that.

File: m.jpg (445KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

445KB, 640x640px

>>3963985
>>Implying /v/ played anything before the Trails trilogy
>Absolute best case scenario they've played the PSP Gagharv remakes.

...have you?
Who's this character, then?

File: Final_Fantasy_II_front_cover.jpg (43KB, 398x400px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 398x400px

>>3962758
It could just be DQ. I like a lot of JRPGs, including DQ1 and 3 (and 9) but found IV, V and VI impenetrably boring.

>>3964075
Isn't that Rou from the first Dragon Slayers? Don't remember him having that nose though, been a long time since I played the game.

File: Final Fantasy III (Japan) [En by A.W.Jackson+Neill Corlett+SoM2Freak v1.1]-screenshot(1).png (15KB, 512x448px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 512x448px

>>3951734

Currently I'm playing Final Fantasy 3 and Ultima 1. Ones Japanese, the other is clearly western.

I haven't played these genres in a while, but they have different appeals. Final Fantasy was easy to pick up, easy to understand, easy to understand (visually) and thematically (generic jrpgness is abound in the genre).

If I could make a binary comparison between the two, and just simplify it using one negative, and one positive, it would be this:

JRPG's are shallow, yet warm.
WRPG's are deep, yet immersive.

>>3951734
They aren't. And of the few that stand out, it's later versions of that game that is the good one.

For example the Snes version of Dragon Warrior 3. The previous 2 games are not worth playing.

>>3964781
Deep isn't a flaw

>>3951734
>the need to manage your items and mana over a lengthy dungeon
This is the main thing that makes an RPG fun for me. If you don't have to carefully prepare for a dungeon, then it's really not an RPG, it's a visual novel.

File: Marky_Mark.png (10KB, 256x239px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 256x239px

>>3964075
That's ma boi Markus!

:(

>>3964947
Therefore immersive must be the flaw. That's fine, immersionfags are nutters.

>>3964781
Ultima 1 is too shitty. Just start with Ultima 4 to make a fair comparison