What are some retro action RPG games that use a slow, methodical combat system that predates Demon's/Dark Souls?
I've always wondered what are the historical antecedents of these games.
I've been told that Severance: Blade of Darkness is one such early example of a slow, methodical action RPG. I looked up some videos of it and noticed some similarities, but that game is from the year 2000. I was wondering if there are any from before that.
Well that's the answer, Blade of Darkness.
The King's Field games play nothing like the Dark Souls games. They're incredibly slow. Combat system is dumb as it can get, And the enemies are pretty much just there to be there.
This is the game that started all.
Then King's Field, Shadow Tower, ST: Abyss.
Blade it's pretty similar but probably wasn't a direct influence but just a coincidence. I mean, i doubt the nips they were inspired on a 2001 spanish pc game, but who knows.
Faxanadu, Tower of Daruga, Cadash. Don't listen to the git shouting about that shit stain Blade of Darkness game. Dark Souls is just an extension of Miyazaki's Kings Field/Shadow Tower.
Well at the very least I'm not someone that supports a devolution in control schemes like using the analogue stick button for the target system.
And yes that game is console trash. It barley plays at 30 fps and they want you to react to shit quickly in it. That game is a fucking barf machine if you spin too quick.
>a devolution in control schemes like using the analogue stick button for the target system.
Not him, but why is it bad to have the analog stick being assigned to choosing your lock-on targets?
What better alternative would you suggest? I'm not shitposting, I'm genuinely curious. I'm not a big fan of Souls, but one thing I've always thought was good about it was how simple and intuitive the controls are on consoles.
>OP image not retro
>King's Field plays nothing like Dark Souls
>It's just a coincidence that KF/ST became Souls after Blade of Darkness
>2D games are like 3D games
>Strawmanning that anyone claimed BoD is a great game, rather than just a modeling influence
>Stick buttons are somehow different from keyboard buttons or other buttons
Are there people actively trying to destroy /vr/ or is it just because of the OP image of this particular thread? Or maybe just extra obvious itt?
>A trigger should always be used for targeting
That absolutely would not work for Souls systems because L1 and R1 are the weak attacks for left weapon and right weapon respectively, and L2 and R2 are the strong attacks.
Why break up that verisimilitude just for the sake of you thinking that all games with targeting should adhere to some rigid standard no matter how awful it would be?
It's a button, Nigger. Get over yourself or use the awful K&M controls. Rejecting something based on superficial qualities you're unwilling to learn is the first sign of impending oldness. I bet you still have a phone with buttons.
Fuck you I didn't start this debate but it's chock full of the kind of idiots who unironically endorse the totally counter-intuitive digital 3D controls of KF/ST/Echo Night
Yeah, nobody would recognize OoT as 3d zelda if it featured different characters. Because it's nothing like 2d games at all. Not to mentioned that most likely it was influenced by some shitty european PC game.
>it's shit because it doesn't use triggers for targeting!
>how would you map it then?
>I wouldn't because it's shit for not using triggers for targeting!
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were retarded, I just thought you were kind of stupid or something.
It's a perfectly acceptable thread, the guy is asking about retro games. Stop being such a retard about it. Just ignore if it triggers you that are. We're not here to only post things that interest you.
My recommendation will be a bit odd because it's very unlike Dark Souls in most ways. Secret of Mana though has an interesting charge system that encourages a more methodical method of waiting and positioning then unleashing a big attack. Some like it, some don't.
Yeah, sure, it triggers me that people are discussing about Dark Souls' controls and calling each other names rather than actually talking retro games.
But no, wait, I'm the bitch here, I should shut up, right?
Thread has already been answered, the retro counterpart to the Souls games is King's Field.
They're asking and talking about old games that are similar to a new one. That's perfectly fine to talk about. If it triggers you, that's your problem.
Also, he's asking for "some" games that have a similar feel to it's combat. There's nothing wrong with giving him more suggestions.
>Failing to recognize the mechanics from KF and especially ST in Souls
Yeah, no. Higher maybe. Not to say BoD wasn't also a clear influence on the aesthetics and pacing of Souls as well though.
Die by the sword is a precursor to games like Severance.
And who the fuck said that?
It's pretty obvious that UW inspired KF, KF inspired ST and ST inspired Souls.
So UW it's the first game i think when i think about historical antecedents of Souls.
Not withstanding all the shitposting that's going on in this thread...
It depends on how far back you want to go. Although these games don't necessarily feel anything like Souls, Zelda II and Ghosts 'n Goblins were notoriously difficult for their time. Zelda II has some RPG elements, but GnG is strictly a platformer. Faxanadu and Battle of Olympus have similar gameplay to Zelda II.
ActRaiser 2 for SNES is another platformer to look into. The stages are ridden with bullshit obstacles like pitfalls that you can barely clear, and only if you angle yourself a certain way and time the jump perfectly. Some bosses are heavily armored and require you to find their "sweet spot" before you can deal any damage to them. You'll need to rely on rote memorization of enemy patterns to get through most areas.
I would also weakly suggest Demon's Crest, which is a GnG spin-off. The game just isn't comparatively challenging.
As for the 3D stuff, the King's Field series is a sort of spiritual predecessor to Souls. The games enforce a first-person POV and annoying tank controls, but the atmosphere and basic gameplay mechanics are similar. Open-world design, level-ups, lots of variety in your equipment choices, etc. The mechanics aren't so rich that they allow you to specialize in a particular class or set of skills, though.
Then there are several other FromSoftware games based on the same game engine - Shadow Tower series, Eternal Ring, etc. Some of these are PS2, so not technically retro.
Finally, I'd also suggest looking into Vagrant Story for PS1. It's a dungeon crawler with action RPG elements, although actually executing commands doesn't exactly work in a real-time fashion.
I have never played DS but I've grown to enjoy these threads.
>B-but X is nothing like Souls, moron!
I don't care, just throw some cool old spooky hard games at me. I feel like Wizardry fits? It is turn-based, of course.
What is the Citizen Kane of /vr/?
Anyway, I expected this thread to devolve into shitposting the minute I saw OP's pic. I don't know if it's people who think Dark Souls is a flawless piece of programming or people who are triggered by the game's vocal fanbase, but the original question was very /vr/ and YES, 2D games can feature similar elements to 3D games. Hell, even 2D sidescrollers can. So if anyone has any suggestions that are /vr/ equivalents- likely in regards to combat- feel free to contribute.
Also, how does Dark Souls console targeting work? Is it just stick clicking or does the target change based on positioning? That can be done but not as easily with buttons.
>Also, how does Dark Souls console targeting work?
R3 locks on to closest enemy. While locked on, right stick left/right cycles targets within range. R3 again unlocks and the right stick re-functions as camera control.
You'll also learn that targeting in Souls games is often not worth it, as it's easier to get behind enemies without it since your movement scheme and the camera orients around your enemy while using it.
>Severance: Blade of Darkness
Well, this is news to me and I must say: wow; it's like I'm literally watching an older version of DaS. Neat, but I think I just lost a tiny bit of appreciation for that series. As a side note I for one think Souls games deserve a free pass to be discussed about on /vr/. Of course, I know this will never happen. But I think they're worthy of discussion here simply for being among the very few modern games that retain that retro feeling. This is one game series that finally, actually resembles something I think a lot of us imagined back when we were younger and thinking about what the future might hold and how awesome vidya would be with more powerful hardware. Considering how awfully things turned out -- pretty much the whole industry is a huge disappointment at this point -- the fact such a game as this could make it to store shelves is downright miraculous. The Souls series are diamonds in a sea of shit. They represent what retro games would be like if made on modern hardware -- what all games should have become in terms of design values, philosophy, etc. They're retro in spirit.
So what are the things in Blade of Darkness that inspired something in the DS series?
1)You can't cut your enemy's body parts off or get your body parts cut in Souls like you can in BoD.
2)In BoD, the bow was a fairly useless weapon, in DS there's a whole lot of ranged weapons to use.
3)No NPCs in BoD, unlike DS.
4)They both have the stamina bar for your characters, but Fromsoft had that one even earlier in the King's Field games.
5)In BoD the characters and their growth are clearly defined, meaning that you can't make a Barbarian out of Knight no matter what you do and Dwarf can't use long sticks as good as Amazon does. And with enough experience you just get a level up with pre-determined growth in HP, Stamina and number of combos your character can use. While in DS your character grows more similarly to Gothic II, I think.
6)Combos and special attacks. There's none to speak of in DS.
7)You cannot upgrade and repair your stuff in BoD.
8)Armor is just an upgrade in BoD.
9)Missions in BoD vs an open world in DS.
I don't think you've really seriously played Souls since you don't think there are combos or special attacks and I don't think you've played Demons Souls at all since you think Souls games are all open world.
Considering the similarities are both superficially obvious in the aesthetics and deeply obvious in the mechanic you seem to be someone who likes to analyze games JUST deeply enough to be a contrarian. I hate that.
>I don't know how 4chan works
I gotta hand it to the mods, their pruning job turned this into an okay thread. It ran off most of the "Souls is dada greatest game evah!!" shitposters and satisfied most of the retro police without losing the valuable info on retro action rpgs and the meaningful discussion of the Souls games through the lens of their pedigree. If wanting that for the thread makes me autistic then I guess I'm autistic.
How the hell would anything but tank controls work in a first person game? You would rather it be so that when you press down you automatically turn around? How would you even know what direction "down" is in a first person game?