Japanese Thread, talk about your quest to learn a bizarre foreign language so you can better experience 20-year old children's novelties.
Been poking around in more games and finding more stuff I can read as I progress in kanji, but now I find grammar to be tripping me up a lot. Is there a good grammar resource to check out?
I've found the biggest hurdle to be having the attention span of a goldfish.
I've attempted Oxford's Take Off In Japanese, I've had on and off evening classes, was grinding out words on "iknow" (formerly some other name), and I spent 4 months in a remote area of Japan doing volunteer work after the 2011 tsunami, yet my proficiency level is more or less hiragana.
FC,JP、FF2 is hiragana and katakana indication.
It's impossible to remember a kanji.
lil shits:you're a dragon knight, old fuck?
richard: ya bitch. i'm your dad's buttbuddy. i'll rape the emperor for sure then be back for your asses. will you let me be your pimp daddy then?
never studied it, kanji admittedly isn't friendly though
I can't think of much worse than Genki.
If you have previous experience with language learning, do Tae Kim. If you're an English native, do Japanese The Manga Way.
Then move up to the DOJG.
Grammar is not the kind of thing you should be spending hours reading textbooks for. You get through it once, then start reading, referring back to the material whenever you get confused. Reading textbooks containing the equivalent of "the cat sat on the mat" will barely help you with real text, which is what you actually want to read.
I found emulating kana-only games with a dictionary and grammar book, marking any words I looked up for review, to be pretty enjoyable if slow going. Played a lot of Famicom classics that way. Tagainijisho is pretty good as a dictionary where you can flag words.
Emulation was important to be able to pause dialogue that moved on too fast.
My plan to take it to the next level was to use a stroke-order dictionary and work through a game with some kanji, but I stopped being unemployed. Maybe someday.
This approach is no good if you aspire to speak Japanese, but I'm no weeb so it suffices.
Russian is not very widely distributed. What an odd suggestion. Mandarin Chinese won't help you with the multitude of mutually-exclusive Chinese dialects, so it's not as useful as one might think.
Spanish is probably right behind English as far as widest area of distribution is concerned. Being fluent in both English and Spanish will take you very far.
Kana only is awful. SFC games with light kana usage are easier to read and more helpful to building a vocabulary.
I recommend Kanjitomo as a tool. It can OCR text (including emulators) to recognize kanji, includes a dictionary and a feature to save words you didn't know.
What's more fitting to play dead games? There's hardly Spanish original games and Russian seems pointless unless you want mods for some late 90s Windows games like JA2 or HoMM3.
Learning Chinese and learning Japanese are related due to the common script. Traditional Chinese might be more common in retro games but I never looked deeply into that.
>Learning Chinese and learning Japanese are related due to the common script.
Uh, they don't share a common script. If you're referring to kanji, it's only loosely based on Chinese readings or ideographic information. A Chinese character in Japanese will likely have a completely different meaning from the same character in whatever dialect of Chinese you're looking at. And of course that's to say nothing of the volume of differences between Chinese and Japanese grammar and syntax.
I would actually say Japanese more closely resembles Hawaiian than Chinese. The phonology is so similar that speaking one language will make the other seem that much more natural to pick up on.
I palyed through it a few times and I've got about grade school level proficiency.
If you're like me it'll be the random foreign loanwords in katakana and 90s slang that'll trip you up more than anything else
Yeah, there's a lot of translation patches of stuff into Spanish, now. I'd play less text stuff I knew by memory and slowly moved on to harder stuff.
They give you free Rosetta Stone, but it's a piece of shit for learning.
I've been interested in learning Spanish for a while, but there aren't any schools in my area that offer courses.
I've been trying the teach-yourself approach with books, but they have contradicting advice about pronunciation. Either [e] always sounds like the ay in day, or always sounds like the eh in leg. The same book might even bounce back and forth between opposing theories about pronunciation. Surely Spanish phonology isn't that complex or inconsistent.
It's e as in leg. Pronunciation in Spanish is very easy and very consistent, only the English "W" sound in "güi/güe" is weird.
The hard part about Spanish are the verbs.
The best thing is that it's very likely you can encounter people who speak Spanish as native speakers... at least in the US.
Maybe if you're counting card games and other share/freeware clones.
Question is more what you want to play.
I'm curious about Sword and Fairy, Xuan-Yuan Sword or other Chinese language games. Any tips on learning the language or is it all just blind rage?
It's as good a motivation as any. You can always use it for other stuff afterwards.
It's not that much work and the payoff is huge.
The hardest part is getting a proper start.
>It's e as in leg. Pronunciation in Spanish is very easy and very consistent
My sources are still unable to agree on this matter:
>it's always a as in ace
>it's sometimes a as in ace, but becomes e as in leg when it's between consonants
>it just varies from word to word or accent to accent
Concentrate on reading it first, it's pronounced exactly how it's read.
You can learn pronunciation down the line, by hearing it.
I recommend you watch veeery basic cartoons and children's shows in Spanish first. I watched a lot of Plaza Sésamo (Sesame Street).
People try to go too quickly and then don't remember shit. Go at a child's pace, concentrate on PERFECTING the very very basics and slowly go up in complexity like a native child would is the most natural way to do things.
I know people who did 3 years of Spanish, then stopped for awhile and didn't remember anything since they rushed things.
It happened about 30 years ago and the toys were brand new or not even made at the time.
Japanese grammar is a cluster fuck but there's not so much to it that it's difficult. A few redundant words and desu goes at the end. That's about all you need to know to play a game. Best resource is a long hair dictionary.
Not quite that much, I'm going to hope you have higher mental accumen than a toddler.
But I learned Spanish very well (I believe) partially by starting to watch and read stuff for little little kids and work my way up... I feel like it's more natural than using Spanish as a second language books made for adults.
What's difficult for native children and what's difficult for adult learners often aren't the same thing. They tend to use simple concepts because they're easier for children to understand, as an adult more difficult concepts aren't a problem because you've already encountered them in your native language. Your target language's word for 'dog' is no less problematic than 'simulation'.
How the fuck..? There isn't a single person overlap here from /int/ or /a/? Amazing. If you want to learn nip, there is a general on /a/ with everything you need to learn, and on /int/ there's Japanese posters in the Japan generals. /jp/ prolly sucks
Here's /a/'s pastebin: http://bitlasers.com/djt
for learning LANGUAGES period. There are plenty of retro ways to do this (even language learning games on retro era consoles). I started a few language learning threads with vidya on/v/ before back befor eit was b2. Anyway SNES FINAL FANTASY IS HOW EVERY IMMIGRANT LEARNS ENGLISH there should be a thread, if not here, on /vg/
Emit is a language learning game by Koei released for all sorts of CD based systems as well as the SFC with an extra tool to use a CD player for audio.
You can easily switch between Japanese and English for audio and subtitles and jump back and forth between sentences.
At the end of a chapter you can test your comprehension.
True to some extent but I've always found childrens learning material to be the easiest way to learn a new language. Maybe that's just cuz I'm a kid at heart and enjoy playing kids toys like everyone else here.
OP go to /int/ and read the sticky. Maybe find a torrent for the Genki textbooks.
I|f you're struggling with books, try Duolingo. It's a website that uses the Thomas Michel method: you learn a few words, make a couple of rudimentary sentences and learn the grammar rules as you go, always building on the knowledge rather than reviewing tables.
Learning a sentence in the first day makes it much more fun, which is important if you want to stick at it, it needs to feel immediately worthwhile as well as a smart future decision.
Tried to play this in japanese without speaking a lick of nip and god damnit does it make me want to learn, especially since the translation is at never ever status
your post demonstrates very well why the /djt/ is a terrible jap learning group. The manga and LN downloads are the only good to come from it.
Not /vr/, though.
Madou Monogatari for the SNES is pretty simple if you know your jouyou kanji.
For a very easy-to-read title that's still text heavy, there's Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom (サラダの国のトマト姫) -- mostly kana, but a few kanji here and there (国、王、森、湖、etc) that should be easy enough for a beginner to memorize and recall quickly. The text is gigantic, and the font is very clear.
I seem to recall Star Ocean (SFC) using several hundred joyo kanji. It was more complicated than Tales of Phantasia or Madou Monogatari at least. Trouble is that the font is not quite as well-designed, and if you see a kanji you don't know, it might be hard to figure out what it is, or the radicals it uses, or the stroke order.
Am I doing something wrong here? The game doesn't even have Hiragana.
Does it matter? You don't have to wait years to start reading stuff. You're not going to get used to reading without reading experience.
At first you may have to look up every fourth words, then every fifth, every sixth and so on.
...but the /djt/ guide DOES recommend core2k for kanji. Again, what's wrong with it? I don't care much for the actual thread, but the resources compiled in the OP have been quite helpful so far.
>there's only one acceptable way to learn and it's doing core2k
core2k gives you edict definitions which can get nuances very wrong sometimes
Plus nothing's stopping you from creating your own vocabulary deck with sentences from the material you're consuming so you have actual context from when certain words are used, which is what I did (until I got tired of it and just started to read/watch/play japanese stuff and expose myself enough times to certain words until I memorized them).
Truth is, there's no acceptable way to learn. There are only "unacceptable" ways, like going with your Japanese class' rhythm, which will make you take forever. I've had a friend whose yearly test was literally only hiragana and katakana - and she failed.
I can pretty much read and listen to whatever I want, aside of classical literature or certain dialects I'm not familiar with. I can communicate by writing fine although with weird phrasing because I usually don't talk with people in Japanese, and my listening is mediocre, although all I need to do is spend a few weeks or months watching Japanese media and talking to some Japanese friends and it should be fine.
And once you finish 2k you realize you don't care about VNs or animey and reading even the simplest jrpg is gonna take years anyway.
Don't even start, it's a waste of time. Either way Japan is a dying country.
I've just started and learned only Hiragana and some very basic grammar. I wonder how long will it take for me to understand Mizzurna Falls?
You will be dead before that, the Japanese language is fucking interesting from a linguistic point of view, all the more if you take video games and literature into account. Learning any language is worth in itself, anyone who says the opposite is ignorant or a monolingual person who doesn't understand the benefits. It's a lot of effort, though but fucking rewarding.
Do you actually think Japanese has no applications other than playing VNs and reading doujins? Do you realize that Japan is one of the world's biggest economies? It's not like your brain has a limited amount of storage, so learning Japanese or any other language is infinitely more useful than playing video games and shitposting on 4chan.
Videogames are a stupid waste of time too, but you don't have anything better to do with your life anyway.
I agree that it's stupid that they insist that core 2k can be relied upon. It does nothing to explain the differences between ruigo, and somewhere in the 6k deck it says パンツ means pants. That's "we taught him wrong as a joke" level misleading. That said, I still use it along with my mined decks and look up suspicious words on goojisho and weblio. It helps me learn newspaper and business nouns I wouldn't come across otherwise.
But, my bigger problem with /djt/ is that the majority of posters don't know what they are talking about at all, so 90% of the answers they give are misparsings of machine translations. Or, at least that was how it was when I gave up trying to help them.
Naive. The only way to become fluent in a language like Japanese is to spend years of study and also live amongst people who natively speak it. It's not something you can do quickly or casually as a hobby. And even if you DID want to go through all that, you still wouldn't be able to fully understand all the minute culturalisms, dialect traits, and subtleties only natives would pick up on.
Or you can spend a fuckload of time on Japanese sites and consume lots of Japanese media, which is basically the same thing, apart from the conversational practice and nuances you'll be missing out on. I've never taken English classes or traveled outside Brazil in my entire life, yet I was able to score an A on the Cambridge Certificate of Proficiency in English exam effortlessly, so I don't really think your claims hold water.
Indeed, whether the localization is or is not good, it can be enlightening to see what the original was. Or in the case of things like WD games, you can see what was changed for the western release.
At first I was "I don't want to learn another language just to play games/watch anime". But then I realized that by thinking like this I'm just trying to justify my laziness.
So, I started learning Japanese one and half years ago and having a blast with it. Not only because I like learning foreign languages in general, but also because Japanese is totally different than anything I've encountered previously. Passed JLPT N4 last December, planning to pass N3 this year.
Seriously, if you like games and have hesitations about learning Japanese, then do it. Totally worth time and money spent on it.
This. Learning something new can never do you harm. And learning languages is fun to begin with, Japanese just has the added value of you being able to play video games and read novels or something.
I don't give a shit about JApanese, but I am learning german and I do use video games as a pretty big aide. so slightly relevant It's easy as fuck to find german/Pal/European versions of most classic games that I played in my youth/teens. i dont feel like two much of a fag because every game I play, I actually did buy at some point just not in that language so fuck it.
Pokemon(all of them) and Animal Crossing are the games I've spent the most time on. It's not hard to imagine what games are good. Lots of dialogue, stuf like the Sims is probably really fucking good. I've been meaning to start Knights of the old republic as well. Any game where you can make choices in the dialogue would be top fucking notch. Skyrim would probably be another one, but I admit I kind of stopped playing single player games after the PS2/GCN era so I havn't played a lot of the new shit. "learning a language" gives me a nice fucking excuse to make up for lost time and enjoy all the fucking games that are new as fuck to me.
Simply make a course on memrise(a flash card system) and whenever you find words/sentences you dont know add them to your personal deck.
before you dive in head first though, you should at least get the basics down with some kind of cookie cutter course. I know Assimil is good for german, but not sure for japanese. Otherwise you'll get frustrated as fuck and find yourself skipping dialogue which again defeats the purpose.