How do generations work? Why 3DO and Jaguar are counted

They are completely arbitrary. Arcade games threw the generational divide thing all over the damn place.

>>2944290
Arcade games were ever divided?
I know only home consoles are divided.

Partially hindsight, partially based on how things were marketed, and which consoles were clearly meant as successors for others.

How the hell do you classify home computer generations anyway? Unlike what the average /v/ermin would think, PC/AT-compatibles weren't always a universal standard.

>>2944679
>How the hell do you classify home computer generations anyway?
Many ways.
* 8/16/32/64-bit
* BIOS/UEFI
* CPU generation
* No GPU, GPU (AGP, PCI-X v1,2,3)
* OS generation
* Decade
* ...

Why are gens 1 and 2 not considered the same thing, really?

>>2944312
Exactly.

>>2944827
That's too many variables. Not to mention it doesn't account proprietary platforms like the Amiga and Atari ST.

>>2944840
Did you even glance at the chart?
>Magnavox Odyssey -> Magnavox Odyssey 2
>Atari 2600 -> Atari 5200
>Colecto Telstar -> ColecoVision
The main consoles of Gen 2 where conceived of and marketed as direct successors to main consoles from Gen 1.

>>2944874
Why isn't the Famicom considered a second generation console when it's the successor to the TV Color Game?

>>2944679
1st generation: Apple II, Atari 8 bit, MSX, Commodore 8 bit, PC-88, IBM CGA, ZX family
2nd generation: Amiga, Mac, IBM EGA, PC-9801 U onward
3rd generation: IBM VGA, x68k, Towns, PC-9821, Amiga AGA
4th generation: PPC Mac, Windows 9x

Maybe insert a 1.5th generation.

Hey! Where is the Amiga CD32?

>>2944285
3DO was 5th gen because it competed directly against the PS1.

Jaguar is 4th gen though since it was dead by the 5th gen and was only competing against the SNES/Genesis.

>>2944312

You can kind of divide arcade games

>Discrete Logic
>8-bit Z80/6502
>8/16-bit 6809
>16/32-bit 68000
>32/64-bit MIPS R3000/4000 etc

>>2944285
1st gen was single game hardware.

Atari 2600 is 2nd gen.

wii u is not 8th gen.
That would mean that when the PS5 and XboxZero comes out they'll have skipped a generation.
Just because Nintendo released the wii u too early doesn't mean it's the start of gen 8.

>>2945546
Arcade games mostly line up with the consoles and have nothing to do with hardware.

>>2945552
Wii U, PS4, and XBone are 8th gen.

>>2945559
Argh, reading fail.

File: 1452732713381.jpg (18KB, 408x408px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 408x408px

>>2945556

That's probably the most inaccurate post I've ever read on here.

Arcade games didn't line up with consoles until well into the 90s. For years arcade games were way ahead of their console counterparts. Hardware was fucking everything.

>>2945548
> Atari 2600 is 2nd gen.
It is, 2600 is brown on the chart.

Atari Jaguar and Panasonic 3DO are 5th gen systems because they sure as fuck aren't 4th gen systems.

Show me 4th gen games that look like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEhFFU_vRZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baAgstBpTNQ
(pardon the stretch)

I disagree with Adam Koralik's fifth gen list in that I consider the Amiga CD32 and FM Towns Marty to be 4th gen as they are consolised Amiga and FM Towns computers respectively.
Those computers have games comparable in sound, graphics, gameplay and feel to the fourth gen.

The fifth gen systems then are ranked in order of desirability (quality of game library) thusly:
PS>Saturn>N64>3DO>Jaguar>PC-FX>Pippin

Nintendo sets the standard and all the other consoles which are roughly like it get slapped into the same generation.

>>2946649
Not really. SNES was one of the last gen4 systems to be released, after PC Engine and Megadrive.

>>2946649
But the Wii was standard definition, barely stronger the OG Xbox, and catered to casual vermin. It's gameplay did not resemble the widescreen PS3 and XBox 360.

>>2945548
The graphics of the atari 2600 is not enough to be considered second generation.

>>2946634

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_paAM9bhBNI

>>2946691
I didn't post anything for the second one because textured polygons are pretty rare. 32x has a few games, but they aren't racing.

Also, before "Doom runs like ass on the SNES", need for speed runs like ass on the 3dO compared to the Playstation version.

>>2946687
Atari 2600 had swapapple game carts, color graphics, computer AI letting you play alone, and multiple playfields. Features which Gen1 systems are lacking.

>>2946685
>But the Wii was standard definition, barely stronger the OG Xbox
I found this oddly debatable.

>>2949385
Because "standard definition" is 480i, not 480p, the Wii standard. All those consoles can display 480i.

>>2949439
No, I mean the Wii's processing power in general. I'm pretty sure the original Xbox is more powerful than the the Wii.

>>2949601
aren't we glad processing power is not the single criterion deciding what generation a system is?

>>2949612
Not really. It only proves two things: 1) the arbitrary and "after the fact" nature of this whole generation classification business and 2) the Wii was an underpowered as fuck system that only succeeded due to how good Nintendo's marketing was.

>>2949618
>"after the fact" nature
right, that's why the Wii was grouped in with the other two systems right from the beginning, and "after the fact" people try to argue it out of the grouping, because they hinge their reasoning exclusively on processing power

>underpowered
Last I checked Wii games don't suffer excessive slowdowns and Wiis don't overheat. Seems like its power is just right for manufacturers and developers. And its sales figures suggest people considered its power adequate as well.

Arguably the Colecovision and Atari 5200 should be considered third generation consoles. They came out the year before the Famicom and SG-1000, the Atari 5200 was the successor to the Atari 2600 and the SG-1000 and the Colecovision are more or less identical in power, despite one being considered second generation and one being considered third generation.

>>2949697
That's assuming you don't already separate the Famicom and the SG-1000 even though they were sold on the same day.
Sega released the Mk3/SMS only two years later.

>>2944285
>Atari 7800 in 1986
>TurboGrafx in 1987
but
>NES in 1983
>SNES in 1990

Interesting.

>>2950356

?

It's obviously going by when the consoles first came out

>>2944285
Why are TurboGrafx-16 and SuperGrafx part of the same gen (4) but Saturn and Dreamcast aren't in the same gen (5)?

Generation concept is fucking stupid and should be done away with.

>>2950668

Dreamcast is 6th gen obviously

Supergrafx is just an upgraded turbografx

>>2950687
That's as dumb as saying SNES is just an upgraded NES.

Dreamcast is fifth gen. A company can release more than one console in the same generation.

The way I thought of it was based on what devices were considered in competition with each other using similar technological advances.

I always thought of first gen as being the "fixed games"'console generation, where each console had all it's games built in. I always thought of 2nd gen as being defined as the first generation of consoles with expandable game libraries. I always thought of gen 3 as the "japanese 8 bit wave". Gen 4 as the 16-bit graphics gen. 5th gen as the 32 bit, early 3d and optical disc generation. 6th gen as the DVD and early online generation. 7th Gen as the HD and casual gaming gen. I don't really know what to think of defining 8th gen as other than "those consoles meant to replace the 7th gen consoles"

>>2950705
So is the 3DO fourth-gen then? It only came out three years after the SNES (counting the Japanese release).

>>2950745
>I don't really know what to think of defining 8th gen as other than "those consoles meant to replace the 7th gen consoles"
The Blu-ray standard gen I guess. Even the Wii U uses a modified version of BD as its storage media.

>>2950767
3DO and JAG are 4th gen hardware-wise, yes.

5th gen should be from 94 to 99.

>>2950705

Not really since the architecture of the Supergrafx was similar to the turbografx. In fact most of the games for it could be played on the turbografx.

>>2950770
social generation. It was the generation that brought local multiplayer back, mostly through party games and motion controls, it boosted the social networking aspects as well.

>>2950780
>In fact most of the games for it could be played on the turbografx.
Not really. Just Darius Plus and Darius Alpha, which PC-SG HuCards that were dual-compatible with standard PCE consoles, but had enhancements of the PI-TG4.

>>2950792

Still, does that sound like a console leap to you? Sounds more like an add-on like the sega cd or something. Same basic hardware with a few extra features.

>>2950780
SuperGrafx was meant to be the gen4 competitor, but NEC fucked up and didn't give it a stronger cpu. PC-Engine was actually 8-bit and competed with the Famicom. If they had given SG a better cpu it probably would not have failed because devs couldn't harness the extra ram and vram that the SG had. Instead NEC just kept advertising the PC Engine since it was already successful anyway and could stand its own against MD and SFC fairly well though it couldn't do any sprite scaling/rotating. But calling the PC-Engine a strictly 16-bit gen4 system is full retard. It only has an 8-bit cpu and just managed to exist in both gens 3&4.

>>2950801
I seriously wonder why NEC didn't try to push the SuperGrafx a bit more, given its PC Engine backwards compatibility. They didn't even bother to add SGX support to the Duo consoles.

>>2950795
The PC Engine SuperGrafx is pretty much what Sega originally wanted to do with the Genesis 32X before they went with the final mushroom-shaped add-on idea.

>>2944827
humm, apart from bits, these variables would lead to the somewhat continuos gradual and retro-forward compatible "IBM-pc-at" standard to be broken into several generations, which woulnd't make much sense.

and if you wanted to specifically split the ibmpc into categories, you should use instruction sets

>>2944285
>How do generations work?

They don't.

>Why 3DO and Jaguar are counted as the 5th gen consoles?

Cause generations don't work.

>>2945571
This. Why the fuck go to an arcade if you can play at home? Thats why people played the shit out of MK in the arcades (and anything pre PSX). Arcades were even a little bit better than the consoles, it's only ps2 when it really started to shift in favour of Consoles.

source: Im over 30 years old !

>>2950880
PS2 wasn't as much of a big deal I think, it was online that really killed arcades.

They are still alive in Japan though, and from what I heard, experiencing a revival due to nesica live.

Wii is 6th, Wii u is 7th

>>2950772
>So is the 3DO fourth-gen then? It only came out three years after the SNES (counting the Japanese release).

No. Snes was the final 4th gen system to be released. Even the Neo-Geo was released before it.

>>2950772
>3DO and JAG are 4th gen hardware-wise, yes.

Scroll up to the Jag and 3DO videos. 4th gen hardware isn't capable of that kind of output.

>>2950801
>But calling the PC-Engine a strictly 16-bit gen4 system is full retard. It only has an 8-bit cpu and just managed to exist in both gens 3&4.

Bittedness of a system doesn't matter. The bit wars were cooked up by advertising jews to generate hype in the early ninties.

Today "the cloud" is the popular buzzword that excites computer illiterate normies.

>>2950879
>Cause generations don't work.

If you don't like gens then you are welcome to come up with a better framework.

>>2950892
>Wii is 6th, Wii u is 7th

No. The Gamecube and the Wii cannot share the same gen even if they have similar hardware and power. They are totally different culturally and conceptually. Morover, each is too large of a phenomenon to coexist in the same zone.

>>2951003
>framework
Why? What's the value of this categorization, except fueling console wars by trying to pit various systems against each other?

>>2951014
Most people do not wish to commit the exact location of each console on a single linear timeline to memory.

Gens put systems into neat boxes in which comparisons between them are fair.

Console wars are good because they stimulate discussion and learning.

>>2951028
>Most people do not wish to commit the exact location of each console on a single linear timeline to memory.
largely because it matters fuckall

>comparisons between them are fair
always looking for competition, heh? I just play whatever's entertaining

>Console wars are good because they stimulate discussion and learning.
Console wars are shout matches. Console wars actively prevent discussion

>>2951035

Arbitrary categorizations are the hallmark of historical narratives. If this bothers you maybe you should avoid such discussions.

>>2951049
>Argumentum ad populum

environment?
hardware, devs, and the players, overall representing a time period
snes "matches" with gba in processing ability, but the staff and their aims may differ, along with how players will handle and discuss a game
so with hardware nintendo were cheap shits with wii, since they could capture a market
devs will adapt to circumstances, like reducing difficulty for later games
game availability to players change, so you get mmo retards describing themselves as "skilled", or people buying churned out low par games since it suits their views
all this in mind doesn't have to mean a game will match its gen by release date, like megaman 9 having its display of hardware limitation, previous dev methods, and who the players will mostly be

>>2951061
>snes "matches" with gba in processing ability
>hardware nintendo were cheap shits with wii
>doesn't have to mean a game will match its gen by release date, like megaman 9 having its display of hardware limitation
Fuck you

>>2951064
great nitpick, lack of unneeded quotation marks or extreme detail is horrible

>>2944285
Why is 3rd gen so tiny compared to the others?

Only thing that matters is that with third generation video games became playable and fun.

>>2951167
There were a bunch of fun and playable Atari 2600 games, you Nintendo fuccboi.

>>2951171
Yeah, the games were so good and fun that the market crashed.

File: magnavox-odyssey-200-advertising.jpg (207KB, 579x800px) Image search: [Google]

207KB, 579x800px

>>2951167
Demonstratably false.
Younger versions of you are claiming XBox360 is when games became playable and fun.

>>2951185
At least you can look back and see that there are some actual games for the xbox 360 worth playing. Something impossible for second generation consoles.

>>2951196
You have never played any 2nd gen game ever.
The gameplay they offer has a certain Zen to it.
You are unable to appreciate it having been born too late.
I pity your generation; you probably have never known a time when hiphop was not the dominant music form.

>>2951217
Now gonna explain why second gen is awesome trough arbitrary reasoning like it has a "zen" to it?

Yeah you can really pity me for playing the same basic concepts of second gen games with superior gameplay, graphics, music and actual level design and content. Because you know, second gen games didn't went beyond a basic concept.

I pity you for playing games in a poor time instead of using your time on something on the height of its development like literature.

>>2944285
More or less like super sayajin levels

>>2951248
With second gen being humans and gen 3 starting with actual saiyans like the nintendo that transforms to the super nintendo.

>>2951238
Niglet, I just finished Anna Karenina last week.

The only way to understand is to actually play the games for real. Watching e-celeb faggots on youtube is no substitute.
The Atari 2600 emulator is called Stella.
I suggest the game Beat'em and Eat'em to start with.
You must play for at least 15 minutes for it to take hold of you.
Do not put it to full screen mode or it will stretch like your mother's vagina on your widescreen.

>>2951262
But that's like saying gen 2 as a concept and later gens don't matter entirely, since Goku becoming a teen and whatever down the line are all filler.

>>2951293
Just play them online in your browser. http://www.virtualatari.org/soft.php?soft=Beat_Em_Eat_Em

>>2951326
Eh, the hardware could exist. But all you get is Pong with barely any gameplay and graphical differences. Also using extremely muddled code.

Console generations classification has to be done by chronology. This is the primary indicator.

However, when there is argument where to draw the line, one can defer either to technical specifications or cultural impact.

The original Wii is definitely 7th gen because its release date is way way too far away from the 6th gen machines. Technical stuff doesn't even enter the argument.

But technical specifications lines can be controversial. Is it by power? Features? N64 used cartridges so is it 4th gen? But it was capable of drawing perspective accurate, properly sorted 3D, so maybe it should be 6th gen?

>>2951534
>Console generations classification has to be done by chronology. This is the primary indicator.
Why not just called the console by the year or decade they came out during.

>>2951196
There isn't a single game I'd want to play on the 360.

I'm serious.

>>2951808
>he didn't enjoy Lost Odyssey
Denial or just poor taste?

>>2951881
I'm going to assume it released broken and probably raped with DLC.

>>2951887
Not anymore than F-Zero was on the SNES.

>>2951893
Think you may have a misunderstanding of the SNES anon.

>>2951894
You had to buy a Satellaview and pay for a service subscription if you wanted the Mute City IV course in F-Zero. It's Nintendo's fault DLC became a thing in the first place by initiating it.

>>2951897
Umm I'm pretty sure the Satellaview used special cartridges, a console add on, and was like a streaming service only available for like a few hours day.

But if you consider that "DLC" then ya I guess...?

>>2951897
This. Nintendo's always been guilty of peddling DLC.

>SNES: Satellaview
>N64: Randnet with the DD
>Gamecube/GBA: e-reader cards
>Wii: some stuff on Wii Shop like Megaman 10
>Wii U: amiibos

FUCK Nintendo.

>>2951905

>SNES: Satellaview
>N64: Randnet with the DD
>Gamecube/GBA: e-reader cards
How is any of that DLC? You're really reaching.

>>2951217
>You are unable to appreciate it having been born too late

>unsarcastically saying this

im 35, i have some small vantage point of what it is to see a younger lad not appreciate something perfectly enjoyable for some quality below a threshold that he has ever been exposed to. but you're in complete denial of your nostalgia goggles

>>2951912
Satellaview retroactively made F-Zero an incomplete game. N64-DD/Randnet was pretty much a Satellaview on steroids, except you could now play games online as well (had it not failed). E-reader cards meant you had to buy cards to unlock more content in certain games, like Mario Advance 4, so it's a form of DLC too.

>>2951937
>Satellaview retroactively made F-Zero an incomplete game
Is this that guy from the /qa/ thread that said he was going to shitpost /vr/ as much as he could?

>>2951928
forgot to add, i was a poor 4th worlder as a child and while im not so old, i played the atari 2600 when that anon's children were geting into nes or genesis

so i guess i wasnt even born too late to appreciate 1st gen, i didnt even know mastersystem/nes existed until the 90s

>>2951912
slippery slope anom (not the fallacy, the actual event)

at some point it became "DLC" (we are using it as synonym to extra content right?) with amiibos, the definition of which of these items could already be called a proto-dlc will vary

>>2951949
Do you idiots not realize Amiibos are toys? Like they're made out of plastic and stuff? You can hold them and what not.

I mean if that's DLC then we sure do have some crazy tech these days.

>>2951961
They're toys that unlock more content in a game. You download the content from the Amiibo instead of a service's servers on the net.

>>2951982
>They're toys that unlock more content in a game. You download the content from the Amiibo instead of a service's servers on the net.
Is this a legit post or some /v/ meme I'm unfamiliar with?

I reject the idea that "chronology" or "social impact" really soley defines when or where a console generation begins or ends.

It's entirely, or more specifically about the history of console market and it's cyclical nature. A console generation started whenever it was perceived or determined that the majority of consumers were ready to buy new consoles.

This is why some failed consoles are considered to have failed because they were released at the wrong time, either to early or to late to catch the wave of consumer desire for new, better or just plain different hardware. This is why companies like nintendo had set a pattern for themselves of releasing a new console roughly every 5 years, because it made sense that at that point, their consumers would be ready to upgrade to the nex console.

>>2951993
Amiibo has been called physical/tangible DLC for a long time. Where've you been at?

>>2951996
In the real world I guess were they're fucking toys.