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>10 minutes into Daikatana n chill and...
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You are currently reading a thread in /vr/ - Retro Games

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>10 minutes into Daikatana n chill and he gives you this look
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>>2932816
He just made you his bitch
>>
You play this game on the highest difficulty and you can get murdered by tiny frogs right at the start.

You actually have to ricochet bullets off a wall in order to destroy a turret to even pass through to the next little area after that

it's silly
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>>2932816

He should totally go back and release an update for Daikatana. At its core it's not a bad game. It's just a mess.
>>
Peter Principle in action.

Great game and level designer. Should not ever, for any reason lead a project. He can't handle money, or lead. He pissed away like what 20 million on Daikatana?
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>>2932834
Apparently the multiplayer is actually pretty good. The engine itself isn't too bad for the time, the singleplayer level design and team AI is fucking garbage though.
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>>2932837
He's also the reason Looking Glass Studios shut down.
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>>2932843

Because of its meme status, "an actually good Daikatana" would generate a lot of itnerests.
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>>2932843
They reused the Quake 2 engine.
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>>2932915
So was Half Life, doesn't really mean it's the same.
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Is that famous league of legends player "Imaqtpie"?
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>>2932949
yep
>>
SUCK IT DOWN
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>>2932915
After having basically done most if the game in the Q1 engine.

>>2932920
I'm pretty sure Valve bought the Q1 engine and then went apeshit and building it up to what it was.
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>>2932852
Don't remind me. I'm still mad.
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>>2932852
No, that's misinformation by butthurt LGS fanboys. There is zero evidence that there was, like, a stack of money that was GOING to go to LGS but all got sucked up by Ion Storm instead. The real answer is that LGS simply wasn't making enough money. Maybe Eidos could (or should) have done more to save them, maybe they shouldn't have spent so much on what they thought were safer bets like Daikatana, but it's stupid to think that without Ion Storm, LGS would have been flying high. Other than the sales of Thief 1 they weren't doing so hot.
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>>2933124

Valve started GoldSrc from a Quake 1 mapping utility basically (Hammer Editor).
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>>2932826
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>>2932826
/thread
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>>2933231
From what I've read, Eidos was pumping a lot of money into Romero's newfound company believing in his reputation and promises to deliver a groundbreaking fps. Romero himself was aiming high, but he also was living the life of a rockstar. He asked for a prestigious penthouse suite of Dallas' Chase Tower for his team to be accommodated in for no real reason, which had an in-office movie theater, hired a bunch of modders with no experience to work on the game and only oversaw the project instead of being directly involved with it. When Romero saw Quake 2 during E3 he decided to scrap the entire work they put into the first version of the game made on the Quake 1 engine and start all over which made a lot of people working on the game mad. His entire team eventually quit and he had to hire new staff. Daikatana was in development for 3 years instead of whatever unrealistic time frame Romero initially promised and it looked and played like shit upon release alongside its fps competitors like Unreal Tournament and Quake 3. Eidos lost tons of money on that pipe dream and had to close one of their studios to make even, which happened to be Looking Glass Studios.
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>>2932816

He is so cute and charming in that picture. Reminiscent of Santa Claus.
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>>2933787
>Eidos lost a lot of money on Daikatana
True.
>Eidos had to close one of their studios to make even
False. Aside from that not making sense (closing a studio doesn't MAKE money, lol), it's just a lot more complicated than that. You can read a lot more about LGS and Eidos' financial situation online if you actually care. Daikatana was one factor for a studio that was already struggling.
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>>2934530

Other thing to note is that there was at least one other project that got mudballed onto Ion Storm Dallas, and that ended up burning out a lot of devs and talent and money. :(

Romero screwed up a bit, but there were a lot of other things going wrong.
>>
Why haven't you read Masters of Doom yet, /vr/?
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>Throw money at a 20-something level designer
>Shit goes wrong

Color me fucking shocked.

Romero cops a lot of shit for being young, dumb and full of cum. You can't put what is essentially a glorified child in charge of a brand new AAA studio when to date his only real experience is making shareware games with half a dozen of his friends and expect good results.
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>>2934632
I have, and it's bloody gr8 m8, 8/8

Everyone who likes Doom and id should read it.
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>>2932834
It's called official patch 1.2 and community patch 1.3 you twat.
http://www.daikatananews.net/

https://bitbucket.org/DGibson/daikatana-1.3/wiki/Home
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>>2934663

I think you're excusing Romero from quite a bit of personal responsibility there, champ. The entire goddamn mess was _his_ clusterfuck, and he was rightly crucified for it.
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>>2934632

I have, it's appalling how many company decisions turned on John Carmack's every whim. That Romero didn't seem to realize that Carmack could (and _would_ ) do the same to him that he'd allowed to be done to Hall shows a startling lack of social awareness from a man so easy to inspire loyalty and devotion among gamers.
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>>2932852

Serious? How?
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>>2934698
I don't know how you chuckleheads read the damn book and still come out of it with these "good guy, bad guy" opinions. Like, the whole fucking point is that people are complicated and flawed, that Doom was a perfect storm of circumstances, and that a lot of business and game decisions have very human and relatable reasons behind them.

every fucking time this book is mentioned someone tries to act like the point is that Carmack is 100% robot or that Romero was a lazy toolbag or whatever exaggerated bullshit, it's like the words all went through a filter designed to allow nothing except but stuff that confirms their preconceived notions
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>>2934632
>download the audio book
>it's narrated by wil wheaton
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>>2934745
Not excusing anyone's blunders, but I've always seen Carmack as a bit of a turboautist.

But, yeah. Everyone involved was invariably human and had a vast plethora of quirks.
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>>2934745
>every fucking time this book is mentioned someone tries to act like the point is that Carmack is 100% robot or that Romero was a lazy toolbag or whatever exaggerated bullshit, it's like the words all went through a filter designed to allow nothing except but stuff that confirms their preconceived notions
I get that feeling too, it's like people only look at them from one solitary facet of their personalities, I both love and hate the things they did, if you don't have mixed feelings about the events told in the book then I don't know what to tell you.

>>2934751
He's a right cunt, but his adult voice is fine for audio books, and he's not reading his own work, he's reading someone else's work, so it's not like you have to listen to his opinions.
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>>2934745
I came off with the impression that Carmack and Romero were two halves of a great design team and success put a rift between them when they suddenly had a multi-million dollar business to manage and they both wanted to go different ways (which is, of course, what happened.)

We ended up with things like Quake 2 which showcased Carmack's incredibly technical skills and was completely marred by not having Romero direct level design. We got Daikatana, which laugh as you might, had fairly decent design but was absolutely crap gameplay-wise.

It isn't a good guy/bad guy situation, it's more like an asshole genius/asshole genius situation. They're both jockeying for the top dog position.
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That guy's face grosses me out. It's so unnaturally wide.
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>>2934745

The only "good guy" in that tripod turned out to be poor Tom Hall. You could meander for days on the old "human flaws" cliche, at the end someone still has to fucking step up to the plate and take responsibility for the whole sorry fucking mess.

Guess what? No one did. In our society the rich are totally exempt from such peasant trifles as "accountability".
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>>2936104
>sorry fucking mess
>accountability
We're talking about the history behind some popular video games dude, not some kind of human rights violation. And being the unhappiest person doesn't automatically make you the noblest person.
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>>2935748
>and was completely marred by not having Romero direct level design
The level design was maybe not so amazing in Q2 at all times but I think it was still pretty fun to play.

>>2936104
What
This post feels like a sudden radical departure from the subject at hand.
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>>2936806

>accountability and responsibility are only for human rights violations

That right there was what I was talking about- this attitude of "i didn't do enough damage, let me off scottfree lol" that permeates half of the western world these days.

>And being the unhappiest person doesn't automatically make you the noblest person.

Did you ever wonder whether your happiness was manufactured?

>>2937191

>What
>This post feels like a sudden radical departure from the subject at hand.

Why, 'cause I didn't automatically open wide for papa Romero's dick? I read Masters of Doom the same as any other retro enthusiast. What I saw was one guy too nice for his own good, one guy who would be brought low by his own emotional arrogance, and one complete fucking asshole who never had a genuine connection with another goddamn human being. And let's not forget they essentially fucked their old employer, or in Carmack's immortal dickhole parlance "Because I don't care."

It's a wonder iD lasted as long as it did.
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>>2936071
its called smiling anon
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>>2937217
>Why, 'cause I didn't automatically open wide for papa Romero's dick?
No, because you started talking about rich people and their accountability, which felt very /pol/.

I don't think at all that Romero is without fault, I think he did almost everything wrong during Q1

>Did you ever wonder whether your happiness was manufactured?
Careful waving around that edge, this is Retro Videogames, not Philosophy For Dummies.
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>>2937191
>The level design was maybe not so amazing in Q2 at all times but I think it was still pretty fun to play.

If Romero were there to fuck around with it he would have been able to point out to Carmack that the weapons fucking suck and don't work well in multiplayer, and that the enemy placement in single player is boring and repetitive.

I mean, nobody else on the team would have said it.
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>>2937667
I didn't think the weapons were that bad. I guess the grenade launcher was kind of meek, but the SSG, machineguns, hyperblaster and railgun were all great.
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>>2935748

Same here. Their split really showed the difference in their visions, as opposed to when those two gelled together perfectly you get amazing shit (of course with the help of the rest of the id crew).

At least they're all fine now I think?

>>2932816

>that look when he wants you to suck it down
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Daikatana more like DaiKAGADA
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>>2932852
>>2933787

Eidos didn't own LGS, they just published their games. The poor performance of Ion Storm had extremely little to do with what happened to LGS.

LGS was owned by some military software company or something like that, who were themselves bought out by some huge similar company in Washington in the late 90s who didn't value them at all.

LGS wasn't losing as much money as people think, they were basically screwed by circumstances not even remotely within their control.

Maybe I'm not getting a couple of the details right, it's just what I remember from listening to this a while ago.

http://gambit.mit.edu/podcasts/lgs/podcast10_neurath.mp3
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I read Masters of Doom and John Romero was made out to be some genius kid and then he made Daikatana.
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>>2941931
What?
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>>2942098

Genus might be a tad strong, but he was very talented, and ultimately that was his downfall.

He gave Daikatana to his girlfriend and a bunch of other inexperienced chumps. He thought they could do what he did just because *he* did what he did. Romero still hadn't grasped the concept that most people are stupid and useless.
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>>2941934
stuff like this just pisses me off, good companies being ruined by ownership and business
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>>2941931
Don't worry, I got that.
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>No, because you started talking about rich people and their accountability, which felt very /pol/.

No, /pol/ is joos, Hitler, and niggers. Are you fucking high?

>>2937516

>Careful waving around that edge, this is Retro Videogames, not Philosophy For Dummies.

Next time try to come up with a response that isn't completely fucking useless, please.
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>>2942142

Giving Daikatana to his fucking girlfriend was inexcusable. The other shit was merely stupid, but that...? Hell, I'd have walked out on his ass too.

Luckily, it seems he's grown a little less reckless with age. I'd love it if he could go back to awesome shit that isn't clickmining shitware. He deserves a second chance.
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>>2934698

The situation with Tom Hall really pissed me off. Maybe they're leaving information out or something. But they have a guy who was behind the company's first success, Commander Keen. So afterwards, he isn't working with their current project, so they just fire him? It just seems they turned on people way too fast. Keen and Wolfenstein gave them lots of money, so it's not like they could have just told him to come up with other ideas for a few months.
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>>2942415
>He deserves a second chance.
He tried that. No one cared.
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>>2942098

Peter Principle. His skillset is game and level design.

Now he's in charge of some company, and game project. He's never done that before. All of his decisions were terrible.
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>>2942417

That's what I kinda was trying to get across. They had the perfect fucking tripod, man: Hall brings the lore, Romero brings the gameplay, Carmack brings the tech. Instead they let the entire enterprise become completely servile to whatever autistic jag Carmack happened to be on at the time.

It truly pains me how slow Romero was in learning his lessons as a younger man. I think he's fundamentally a good person and iD didn't have to end the way it did.
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>>2942425

There's quite a few ways I could construe that comment, anon. You wanna elaborate a little further? :/
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>>2942431
He had a kickstarter for a first person dungeon crawler that didn't get as much interest as he hoped, pulled it before its goal date and went back to making Facebook shovelware. Same thing happened with Tom and his platformer.

You can try to give them a second chance but these day they're viewed as nothing more than has-been and targets of ridicule. No one's going to give them a look in.
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>>2942437

Romero would get money if he was making a FPS.

Hall would get money if he said he was the father of Commander Keen.

Fucking Inafune is an artist turned producer and managed to ride the coat tail of the Mega Man series, while those who were actually important to its success (like Akira Kitamura, who made Mega man and directed the first 2 games) were forgotten. It's all about luck and self promotion.
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>>2942437

That's...Depressing. :(

No, seriously: that's really, really fucking depressing.

I see all the dumb shit people will throw money at that doesn't have a chance in hell of turning out, yet people who really deserve it can't get a second chance? Christ.
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>>2942452

Because they're not marketing them right. They're not playing into nostalgia.
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>>2942449
>Hall would get money if he said he was the father of Commander Keen.
He did. Still didn't.

Romero wouldn't get money for an FPS either, people would just remember Daikatana and laugh at him.

>>2942452
Out of everyone, Tom really got the short end of the stick every time. He gets fucked over at id Software, fucked over at Ion Storm, pissed on for his own independent work and had a stroke. If anyone deserves something good in his future, it's him.
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>>2942417
I'm not sure what you're suggesting. It was a bitter situation, but id was a small company only geared at working on one game at a time. They had a few programmers, one sound guy, a couple artists, one business guy, etc. If a person wasn't on board with Doom, the active project, it wasn't really feasible to keep them around other than as a charity case. I guess they could have had him make map packs with no new assets, but I doubt anyone would have found that satisfying.
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>>2942318

The company that bought out the company that owned LGS at the time was a billion dollar defense contractor, I can't imagine they could have cared less about computer games or having any part in it.

It is interesting how close Romero came to working at LGS when it was just starting up, it was something like if Romero had been asked to join a week earlier that it would have worked out.

It might have made a huge difference if he had worked on Ultima Underworld and System Shock instead of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.
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>>2942474

They had a lot of money, so there's no need to axe talented people with proven track records at the time. Maybe they should have expanded a little bit. Keep Tom Hall on salary, make him head of a secondary team. He tinkers and plays with ideas.
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>>2942478
Was that the same company that got the rights to System Shock? Because that was a pharmaceutical company as far as I remember.
>>
you have to consider that in the current industry climate that if any designer or programmer were worth his salt he could just start making games right now, and release them on anyone of a myriad of services for something like 8 bucks, regardless of reputation

I can only assume that they either ran out of ideas or they weren't actually the one with talent in the first place
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>>2942597
These things cost money, anon.
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>>2942603
All you really need is a computer and the time to make the thing, which might necessitate a day job. Aside from that, you can have all other costs covered by the publisher.

Example: Cave Story, a wholly salable product even in it's original condition, (though it was originally free,) was made for zero dollars in some dude's spare time.
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>>2942613
Cave Story also took nearly a decade to make by a college student with lots of free time.
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>>2942616
>half a decade
Fix
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>>2942593

I don't think so.

The tech company that owned LGS was called something like Intimetrics, and they were bought out by another company called Titan Technologies, this was back in 1999 or so and I don't know if they even exist anymore.

You might be thinking of Star Insurance, who picked up a lot of the IPs from LGS that no one else wanted at the time. Night Dive Studios owns everything associated with System Shock these days.
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>>2942616
nigga what he was married and had a day job as a programmer and it took him 5 years, and the love and care he put into that game was immense
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>>2942628
Now that's just pathetic. I thought he was some young kid.
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>>2942634
And that is why you personally will never be great, lad
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>>2942634
Is it having a hobby that's pathetic or the succesful hardworking life?

Anyway I hope everyone is aware Romero is about to announce the shooters he's been working on in the next few months.
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>>2942647
The video's out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHSyoKUg1KI
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>>2942648
this is from 2007
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>>2942662
anon...
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>>2942468
>He did. Still didn't.
Probably because his pitch was rubbish.

I mean seriously, it was essentially Little Big Planet in a B^u art style, who the fuck wants that when he could have just made a proper game concept from the get-go? If he wanted usermade content with a low barrier of entry he should have set that as some secondary objective, maybe facilitate that after release with a DLC.

>>2942597
>game development is easy and cheap
This depends heavily on your vision.
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>>2942781
>This depends heavily on your vision.
if you're gonna go having huge dreams then part of having vision is realizing that you're going to have to make some small projects that turn into successes before you can get substantial support for your larger endeavors.
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>>2942478
>It is interesting how close Romero came to working at LGS when it was just starting up, it was something like if Romero had been asked to join a week earlier that it would have worked out.
>It might have made a huge difference if he had worked on Ultima Underworld and System Shock instead of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.

What do you mean? Romero was a good mapper and something that we might call an ideas guy. He got into ideal circumstances by hooking up with the right mix of people (John Carmack, Tom Hall etc.), it's purely speculation to think how he might have performed in LGS.

I guess LGS would've benefited from having a high-profile guy like Romero to help actually sell their high-concept games but I don't know.
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>>2942808
I fail to see how anything they made is high concept
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>>2942808

All I meant was that it was if Romero was literally asked a week earlier to join LGS when it was being founded then that's what he would have done.

It isn't implausible at all, the roles of John Carmack and Tom Hall in Romero's career might have instead have been played by people like Doug Church and Warren Spector.

He might have only lasted at the company for a month before getting into some huge fight with someone and leaving, but he also might have led to the equivalent of Wolf 3D and Doom being made at LGS instead, meaning they could have sustained themselves more easily and lasted as long as Id have.

Yes, I probably am autistic.
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>>2944795
Romero working at LGS might have meant that Quake would have been made how it was originally intended. With the LGS touch, it probably would end up something like Azrael's Tear.
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>>2942478
>It might have made a huge difference if he had worked on Ultima Underworld and System Shock instead of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.
Honestly, I can't see Romero working on Ultima Underworld or System Shock UI (Inventory, etc.), doesn't feel like something he would go along with at all. If he does, the end product would probably be something close to Ultima 9, which isn't for the better.
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he had good intentions. I can't wait to see his new shooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE
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>>2934105
He always tries to hide his derp eye. But we'll never forget, John.
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At Quakecon 2002, Carmack paid some hookers to follow Romero around and throw dollar bills at him.
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>>2946865
I was wondering about that. Is something wrong with him?
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>>2947278
He just has a lazy eye, I think. Never really looked too far into it. Masters of DOOM never mentioned any severe issues.
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>>2934632
>>2934698
>>2934745
>>2942417
>>2942429
>>2942474
>>2942492
>>2934757
>>2935748
>>2937191
etc...

I really get the feeling you fags have absolutely no life outside this general and doom.

like goddamn you really are a bunch of really sad bastards kek
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>>2947694
whoops, thought i was in the doom spaz thread
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>>2947259

This is to get back at that time in Mesquite where the crew sent a hooker to deliver pizza to Carmack who was busy coding.
>>
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>>2947840
Or that time they played a porno on full blast sound right next to Carmack as he worked.
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>>2947259
Well to be fair, there was a time when bitches would have been doing that.
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>>2948997

And his only reaction was.

"Mmm."
Thread replies: 100
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