Why was every platform game from the west so awful compared to

>>2906981
Because Japan is the country that took game development seriously instead of shitting out bad games.

Probably because western developers largely came from a computer game background where games were lower budget and they had to deal with serious problems like one button joysticks.

>>2906984
Then how come Euro games always sound and look better?

>from the west
But American and European platformers (and games in general) were usually nothing alike back then.

Americans were influenced by the japanese console market, Europeans were mostly computer oriented.

>>2906993
Because they put effort into making a turd with glitter sprinkled on it.

>>2906981
Because Japan had a much stronger arcade scene than Europe, and their games had more arcade influence.

>>2906981
Banjo-Tooie would like a word with you.

>>2907040
>Banjo-Tooie
>not a collect-a-thon

HURR MUH SUPERIOR NIPPON STEEL
get fucked, weeb

>>2907042
be that as it may, you can't deny that rare's platformers have amazing controls

>>2906984
If that was true then we wouldn't have shit like the majority of JRPGs out there and Dating Sims

I don't know why you're specifically singling out platformers. The truth is that a lot of western devs were shit back in the day, at least as far as console games.

But there were exceptions. Rare made donkey kong country. Factor 5 made the Turrican series.

>>2906981
*shhhhh No one tell him Battletoads,one of the most diverse platformers of the 8 bit era was developed in the US. Let him keep his weeb ignorance bubble.

>>2907115
Wasn't it actually developed in the UK since it was by Rare after all?

>>2907115
Are you stupid or are you just pretending that you didn't understand OP was talking about western games in general?

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>>2906981
Why was every roleplaying game from Japan so awful campre to the Western ones? They're all grind-fests with bad stories and zero gameplay variety.

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>>2907125
Don't even get me started on most of the protagonists of those games...

>>2907121
The OP did specify "platform games" though.

>>2906981
>Commander Keen
>Collectathon

>Rayman, Turrican, Lomax, Hocus Pocus
>awful

>>2907125
>Ultima VII
>Good

>Wizardry series
>Not a grindfest with zero gameplay variety

>TES
>Not grindfests with bad stories

Meme thread?
Meme thread.

>>2907159

I didn't like Hocus Pocus when I was a kid, should I try it again?

>>2907161
I liked it a lot when I was a kid, but then again, in hindsight I think Commander Keen 4-onwards is better.
Try it again and see if it clicks with you.

>>2907159
>Hocus Pocus

Are you serious right there? That game is the definition of a zero variety collectathon.

>>2906981

conker's bfd contains no collectiables other than money (used to progress further into the game) and chocolate (used as health)

>>2907115
>most diverse
This is a bad thing. Focus on one style and get it right. Only about half the stages in Battletoads are actually fun.

>>2906981

>hating rayman, DKC, EWJ, etc

>>2907080

Good controls, bad pacing. They are far too sluggish, and the levels are far too stretched out for their content.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, but I guess they had to showcase the N64's capabilities while making the games.

It's not just platformers. Of course there are good western games, but let's be honest; 99% of good retro games are Japanese.

>Blackthorne
>Flashback
>Oddworld

I wouldn't say they were all awful but one thing was for sure, even as a kid I knew that if the start screen or stage start screen had a whacky text constantly bouncing, or a background that was a tiled texture moving non stop making you dizzy, it was going to be a shit game. And 90% of the time I was right.

>>2906981

Robocod was a great game, what's bad about it?
It generally got 90% plus marks in the mags and TV shows back in its day.

>>2909127
Can you remember a single piece of level design that made you think "this is awesome"? Something that's so good it sticks in your memory and you can draw a rough approximation of the layout?

This is no problem for Mario, Castlevania, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, Ninja Gaiden, Sonic the Hedgehog series, etc. Even Battletoads has moments like that so it's not the case that 100% of European games are crap. Robocod level design is completely bland and forgettable. The only things I remember are character/enemy designs, which are the least important part of a game.

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>>2906981
Not all of them

>>2909134
Slideshow framerate. At least play the 60fps NES version.

>>2909131

Yeah, quite a lot actually. The main character mechanic was great, the extendable body, the claw grips was an interesting way to get over gaps and chasms. It had some cool/fun vehicles, the plane, cars etc.

The atmosphere is great, I always play it at Christmas time as it just feels really festive. Music and graphics are great.

Sorry, but I really think you could have picked a far, far worse example, outside of Sonic/Mario, Robocod is one of the greatest and most highly regarded platformers of the early 90s. Certainly the best on the Amiga, for example.

>>2909141
>The main character mechanic was great, the extendable body, the claw grips was an interesting way to get over gaps and chasms. It had some cool/fun vehicles, the plane, cars etc.
Yeah, that's the exact same stuff I remember. None of it is level design.

>>2909139
I'm sorry that you require a high frame rate to have fun. The game is fine as it is.

good western platformers?
- commander keen 4-6
- duke nukum 2
- bio menace
- alien carnage\zombie wars
- dizzy
- jazz jackrabbit
- jill of the jungle
- earthworm jim
- rayman
- hocus pocus
- lost vikings
- jetpack
- battletoads
- aladdin
- donkey kong country
- plok

In general I think I may love retro games because that's when Japan ruled the gaming scene.

But if I had to mention some good western produced platformers I'd say Jazz the Jackrabbit, Earthworm Jim, Rayman and Duke Nukem 1&2.

>>2906981
james pond 2 was a good game, and acclaimed as such (atari st, amiga). snes port is bad.

>>2909149
Also mostly bland maze-like level designs. No sense of flow, no memorable set-pieces. With very few exceptions, European level design could almost be procedurally generated.

>>2909162
the criticisms you're making are really to vague to refute

>>2907125
>bad stories
>implying that WRPGs have better stories

I'm legitimately angry right now.

>>2909157
I think Japan still rules in quality, just not in economic terms. All the games I'm looking forward to right now are Japanese (most notably Persona 5).

>>2909184
In general most great game studios of the past are either dead or a shell of what they used to be... Konami, Hudson, Capcom, Sega just to name the big ones.

>>2909165
That's his goal. Say as much pseudo-intellectual crap as he can come up with but make sure it's all vague enough that it really all just comes down to opinion.

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>>2907161
Hey, I had it as a kid too. I also did not like it much, but I also wasn't very good at it. It's so ugly, though, it's hard to keep motivated to keep playing.

It's weird that this game was released in the same year as Donkey Kong Country 3 (1994) and several years after Super Mario World, as well as being on PC rather than a console, but still looks and feels so technologically inferior.

>>2909230

Damn it really came out in 1994? I thought it was much older. DKC3 came out in 1996 but DKC1 did come out in 1994, same as Sonic 3.

>>2909238
Whoops, my bad, was looking at the wrong page. But yeah, according to Wikipedia it was 1994 for Hocus Pocus. And it really feels like a Flash game made by a teenager because it has like no physics at all. It's even one of the early "free to start" games since the first episode of the game is free but the other three cost money I think.

You can even play it online to check:
http://www.classicdosgames.com/online/1hp11.html

If it *were* completely free it might've been acceptable quality, but it's not.

>>2909230
>>2909275
Nintendo is a massive corporation with hundreds of highly trained and skilled artists in their employ. 3D Realms was fairly big for a western developer, but nowhere near Nintendo.

>>2909143

And who decided that level design is the benchmark of a good game?

>>2909324
Not him, but at least for platformers level design is right beside movement/physics as the two most important things for that kind of game.

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>>2909149
>commander keen 4-6
>duke nukum 2
>bio menace

These always seemed really boring to me, even as a kid.

Cash grabs based on intellectual property.

>>2906981
I liked Mr Nutz.