Egg and Breeding RNG 3

>>30805742
So, if I want, for example, a 6IV Adamant shiny Beldum, how do I proceed in the easiest and most time effective way? Without hacking, of course.

>>30805742
good infographic, kudos to whoever put that together

so how do I reset the rng after breeding a box of magikarp(Masuda Ditto/Magikarp) and having no desirable eggs? swap both parents for some random mons and get a new egg? the return to the Magikarp method?

>>30806190
How I'm doing it is I hatch Magikarps in batches of 5 until I get a full box. However, in the last batch of 5, as soon as I have all 30 eggs, I yank out my Gyarados parent from the daycare before it produces any eggs, as it's possible that the 31st egg could be shiny. I hatch the remaining Magikarp. If none are shiny, I save the game and then put my parent Gyarados back in the daycare to produce more eggs.

Repeat until your Magikarp is shiny, then reset the game to before you claimed the shiny Magikarp egg. Replace your Magikarp/Gyarados parent with the parent of the pokemon that you want to be shiny (ex. I wanna use Marowak as the other parent so I can get a shiny Cubone) and take the eggs until you get the shiny one. Hatch it, and there you go. Shiny Pokemon that take a lot less time due to Magikarp's egg steps.

This is all assuming you don't fuck around with the parents all that much. If you're using masuda Ditto holding Destiny Knot like I am then you should have no trouble with the above instructions.

>>30806116
The previous thread explains this in detail if I'm not mistaken. I'm not gonna try and explain in my own words since I'm not confident enough that I fully understand the RNG for genderless Pokemon. IIRC you have to reject a certain amount of eggs before taking a shiny one.

As for IVs, get lucky ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>30806345
yeah I have a setup like this at the moment but I've only done 1 box and wasn't quite sure where to go next, cheers

>>30806388
No problem pal. Good luck with the shiny hunt, I'm 17 boxes of Magikarp in so far.

I should add; Essentially, you don't want to save your game at any time when you've accepted an egg and haven't hatched it. It could end up being shiny.

This happened to me in a previous thread, where it was still the early stages of research and I was MMing for Minior. I got one, but it was at the moment that I had saved my game before, basically fucking us out of any further research besides the one discovery of gender vs genderless egg lists etc.

So yeah, NEVER save when you have unhatched eggs/unclaimed eggs from Daycare Lady.

File: 20161215_153345.jpg (819KB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

819KB, 2560x1440px

Never mind, got the shiny Magikarp.

Anybody want me to run tests? Just let me know.

Give me clear instructions please; I'm kind of retarded so I don't want to misstep.

>>30806345
does this actually work??

>>30806576
Yes friend, the picture in the OP explains the logic behind it in full detail.

I'm just about to test stuff with my shiny Magikarp

>>30806345
does holding items mess it up? like say i dont use a everstone on magikarp but do on a rockruff i want

>>30806596
ignore me just read the OP in more detail lmao

>>30805742
do you hold all the eggs and let em hatch or just get one deposit it til you have 30 then hatch em all in one go?

>>30806720
Doesn't matter your method, just don't save with unhatched eggs or when the Daycare Lady has an egg, because if it's shiny then you're SOL to swap your parent out.

So I can hatch ditto+karps until I get a pentaperfect, reset, save before the pentaperfect egg is given
, then swap the karp to a jangmo-o?

I was reading the whole last thread in the morning, it is definitely a very interesting method. I'll try to get my Shiny Charm soon as I am at 10 Pokemon to finish my dex and will try to experiment.

>>30806473
>So yeah, NEVER save when you have unhatched eggs/unclaimed eggs from Daycare Lady.

So just to be clear, and as a prefered method, after getting the 30th egg we must inmediatly take out the non-Ditto parent out and proceed to hatch the rest of the eggs in hopes of a shiny. If not, we put the Pokemon back, we save and we repeat, is that correct?

Also, was the HA dilemma resolved? As far as I was understanding, there may also be a way to manipulate it if using a parent with two abilities, currently has Ability 0 and the child borns with Ability 1, meaning is in the latter range of the 80-20 percentage so we can trade it for a HA Pokemon which should breed with a 20-20-60 percentage. That is what I theorized so far but I'm still reading the last fourth of the last thread.

Anyone know a video that explains this? I think I'm getting it but a video might help me better.

>>30807115
Just film yourself reading it out loud.

>>30805742
Something seems off about the proposed ball inheritance fix. Need to check something.

>>30807107
Yes correct. I'm >>30806569
Magikarp came on my 24th egg.

The HA problem? Not to my knowledge. I was using Swift Swim Magikarp, but I have a Rattled Magikarp if you want me to test that.

>>30807175
I meant a video of someone actually doing it. Not just someone saying it

>>30807270
Oh wait, no, was reading it the other way around, which is why it read off. Now I feel dumb because I was making a diagram for it.

File: derp eggs.png (26KB, 416x288px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 416x288px

>>30807704
Oh well, I was basically finished anyways.
Here's the reason the same species fix does NOT work the other way around.
Small red lines are steps in first egg, large red is end of first egg, large green is beginning of second egg, small green are steps in second egg.

>>30806970
This is something I think will be commonly misinterpreted. What stays consistent is which parent each IV comes from, not the IV itself. Your Magikarp doesn't even have to be any good.

If the Magikarp you put in is male, and the egg inherits Attack and Defense from the Magikarp, and Hp, Special defense, and Speed from the Ditto, then replacing your male Magikarp with a male Jangmo-o will cause the egg to inherit those two stats from your Jangmo-o. The Jangmo-o has to have good stats, but your Magikarp can be trash, because it's IVs aren't what actually pass on.

Also, if the Magikarp you dummied with is male but the Jangmo-o you put in is female, it will flip, and the egg will take Hp, special defense, and speed from Jangmo-o because now that is the mother. Ditto has become the father and will thus now pass on attack and defense.

For simplest and most easily predicted results, have your dummy Magikarp match the gender of what you plan to put in, and make sure the Pokemon you plan to put in already has good stats. Because you need to already have parents with good stats, this is better for breeding shiny pokemon, rather than breeding for pentaperfect pokemon.

>>30807964
Alright, I understand now. Even then it can still be a humongous time-saver for some mons, especially if you want to try them with different natures.

>>30805742
Hatched a non-HA shiny Cutiefly. SR and replace Cutiefly parent with HA Mareanie. Hatched a shiny HA Mareanie.
Gender and IV spread are identical.

The best part about this is that it shows that RNG abuse is eminently possible in Gen7. This shows that we can get the same outcome by repeating the same inputs, something that could not be done in Gen6 due to how that engine worked.

All we need now is to learn:

1. How the game generates these results given the inputs. E.g., how the seed is created, how the frames progress, and how the game uses that information to determine Pokemon's stats and characterstics.

and

2. How to manipulate the above to get the desired results.

It's only a matter of time now. The autists, I mean, dedicated fans in various portions of the community are working on those two things as we speak I imagine.

>>30806345
So get a box of 30 without hatching them, take the Pokemon out of daycare, hatch all the eggs. If no shiny , save and repeat . If shiny, then what? You reset the game , put the Pokemon of choice in with the ditto, than just go for it? Will you get it in the same amount of tries as you did after the save, or will it take all the hatches from before the save into account as well?

>>30808443
If you examine the little chart in the op image, what that means is the initial roll was 40 or higher. That means any HA pokemon you swap in well get an HA egg, and any Ability 2 pokemon you swap in will get Ability 2.

>>30808585
Same amount of tries. If you got the shiny on the 15th in that set, then after resetting and swapping the parent, the shiny will still be in the 15th egg. You don't even have to hatch the first 14 because you already know what you want isn't in there. You can't reject the eggs though, you have to take them.

>>30808641
K thanks. And does this work with any ditto and gyrados? Or does the ditto need to have 6 ivs and destiney knot? I'm only worried about getting the shiny not that worried about getting good I'vs and stuff. and once you reset , you just switch in the Pokemon that can produce either gendered offspring and it will work?

>>30808753
You can use Gyarados instead of Magikarp, yes.

If you don't care about the IVs, no, you don't need to use a Destiny knot, but you can't change your mind in the middle. If you have the destiny knot on, keep it on. If you have it off, keep it off, until you're done.

It works with any Ditto.

Remember, if you don't have the Shiny charm, you need to be doing the Masuda Method for this to work. So the two pokemon in the daycare have to be from different real-world regions the entire way through the process. A foreign ditto that you don't change along with locally caught pokemon is the easiest way to accomplish that.

I think when I get home tonight I'll add a notes section that explained the IV inheritance from mother and father bit more clearly, and also a simple breakdown of the process of using Magikarp to speed it up so that it's more clear.

>>30808753
Doesn't even require a ditto at all, nevermind a perfect ditto, if you're JUST looking for shinies. Ditto's just easiest to work with.
You don't want to use the exact same species, though (Magikarp and Magikarp mess it up, or Gyarados and Gyarados, but not Magikarp and Gyarados) due to the extra roll for ball inheritance. And genderless/monogendered mess things up. Both have ways around it as given in the image at the thread topic, but they DO need to be accounted for..

>>30808940
Do genderless / monogendered mess it up if the 'dummy' is also genderless / monogendered? E.g., dummy out a shiny Minior, switch to Beldum and get a shiny Beldum?

I like pure RNG, how can I reset the roll for every single egg?

>>30808872
K. So basically try to find a ditto from another region on the GTS and breed it with magikarp saving after every 30 but taking it out before it gets to 31, then going againi if no shiny? And once I get the shiny reset switch chosen Pokemon with gyrados and hatch again until I get the shiny? Sorry for asking so much just don't want to miss my chance on a shiny. Also once you get the shiny taking both Pokemon out of the daycare resets this whole process?

>>30808982
No. Only when switching from genderless/monogendered to gendered, or vice versa, because genderless/monogendered skip a roll.
>>30809073
Just don't soft reset while breeding. The rolls are determined randomly, they're just determined randomly in advance. We have no idea how far in advance they go at the moment (beyond at least a box's worth of pokemon using as many rolls as possible), and there's no way to 'reset' it, just change where you are on the list. Soft resetting and doing the same thing will lead to the same results. Soft resetting and doing things that cause different numbers of rolls will lead to different results, using the same set of numbers.

>>30809102
Yes to the first question.

As the OP says, everything is generated way in advance before you even put parents in, so taking them out doesn't change anything. The sequence breaks only in the situations stated.

>>30809176

Nuh uh, this shit sounds like when you put your music playlist on "Random" but it's not actually random it just gets shuffled the first time so when you listen to a specific song you get the same exact pattern of songs after it instead of a new random song after it.

Getting locked into an infinite loop of the exact same fucking 5IV distributions over and over and over and over again because your position in the static pre-set list changed.

>>30809102
Yes, that process is correct. Don't worry about asking a lot of questions, I want to hear the things people don't quite get so I can make the guide easier to understand in the future.

Getting your shiny doesn't reset it.

>>30809218
So as long as the Pokemon isn't 100 male or female or no gender, I'm good to take it out and put it back in?

>>30809310
I know the shiny doesn't reset it, but does taking out both Pokemon reset it?

>>30809367
No, it doesn't. I swapped from Ditto + Gyarados to Lantern + Sharpedo and it stayed consistent.

>>30809367
Nope. As long as the next pair you put in don't do something that would break it.
>>30809272
IVs are determined in an ass-backwards fashion that means that even if this were some exceedingly large list of numbers that loops around back to the beginning eventually, it wouldn't end up being the same anyways.
But in any particular observable batch, they'll end up assbackwardsing themselves in the same way...UNLESS you do something that messes up the sequence.

I think I understand the basics, correct me where I'm wrong.

I want a shiny Pyukumuku with bold nature. I get the bold Pyukumuku and breed it with my 6 IV Chinese ditto holding a Destiny Knot so I when I reinsert the new, better Pyukumuku after the magikarp test turns out a shiny in the sixth box, I'll get a shiny.

Last thread it was determined that the base, initial roll for shiny did not carry over, and the only reason this works is that the rerolls from masuda method and shiny charm DO carry over.

Does that mean that even if you are using masuda method and a shiny charm, there is a chance your shiny won't carry over because you got it on the first roll?

>>30809616
That is correct.

>>30809672
Gonna abuse the heck out of this over Christmas break then.

You don't need to hatch the eggs, right? I could breed x amount of magikarp eggs and us pkhex to find the one i want, right?

>>30809735
>us pkhex

At that point why not just inject?

Wait so then how could I start another shiny huntthis way if I can't break it?

>>30809735
Yes, you can. Having someone run this test and use Pkhex to examine the eggs without hatching them was one of the first confirmations of this working we got. The first two images in the guide are from that test.

>>30809735
>pkhex
but yes.

>>30809763
What are you talking about? After you get the first shiny the sequence will give you another shiny later. Its not a one and done situation. After you get the first shiny, you can just continue on and you'll eventually get another one.

Anyway, swapping to fixed-gender parents without rejecting an egg beforehand to correct it and then swapping back breaks the sequence. In experiments where Gendered parents output a shiny by egg 10, repeating the experiment but replacing the Gendered parents with Fixed Gendered parents, and then back to Gendered parented before egg 10 resulted in the shiny not appearing, because the sequence was altered.

>>30809763
What do you think happens after you get a shiny? Do you think eggs just stop appearing? Or that the sequence just loops around and continues from the start? That isn't how it works. You don't have to reset the sequence and start at the "beginning". If you've bred any pokemon in sun and moon before trying this you already aren't at the supposed "beginning" of your current sequence.

>>30809645
I think I explained that poorly. Here's how shiny PIDs are generated, from the disassembly:

>Generate random PID
>If a shiny reroll should be done (charm / MM / both), do the following:
> > Roll a new PID over the already generated one
> > Check if shiny, if it is, move on
> > Check if you can reroll again, do it if so, otherwise move on

What this means is, the first PID generated is ignored. But this means nothing, since if your original sequence had either a shiny charm or MM, then it also ignored the original roll, since it rerolled at least once.

The only time this could interfere is if you pick up the shiny charm in between breeding eggs or if you stop/start using MM without the shiny charm. This also means it's NOT possible to do this shiny trick if you go from 0 rerolls (no shiny charm / MM) to any amount of rerolls.

On that note, does anyone have the disassembly for the function that checks whether a pokemon and its PID are shiny? I really wanted that to see if it's possible to manipulate rolls into shiny pokemon without having to actually get a shiny pokemon.

>>30809895
Sorry I thought it was kind of like a chain but then realized how idiotic that was. So overall just stay away from fixed gendered Pokemon ?

So.
Hatch 30 fish.
If no shiny, save, take out the trash, and reject the 31st egg.
Repeat until golden fish, then soft reset and replace breeding fish with the thing I want(which has 50/50 gender ratio and is the same gender as the breeding fish), yes?

>>30810160
Unless that's what you want to get, yes. If you want to keep the same "sequence" going forever, then whenever you use a fixed gender pokemon you have to reject one egg before receiving an egg. For every egg, until you go back to something Gendered.

But really, there's no reason to stay worried about staying on the sequence you're on after getting your shiny pokemon. Resetting it and starting again from a reset sequence wouldn't be any different from continuing the last sequence from where you left off.

>>30810318
There is no need to reject any eggs unless you're swapping to a fixed gender pokemon.

Same gender ratio and gender as the Magikarp isn't required, but it makes it easier to understand how the stats will carry over.

Save.
Put in Ditto and Magikarp
collect 30 eggs. Take one or both parents out of the nursery so an egg isn't generated while you hatch the 30 eggs.

If the 30 eggs did not result in a shiny, put your Magikarp and ditto back in and save. Repeat the previous steps.

If the 30 eggs did result in a shiny, reset without saving. Put another Pokemon in in place of ditto. Collect the eggs and hatch the one that should be shiny. Bam, shiny.

>>30810438
>Put another Pokemon in place of Ditto

I meant in place of Magikarp, fuck.

Is there something special I have to do to get the male to pass down his ball? Like have him hold an item orsomething? I don't know if it's just RNG screwing with me or not

>>30811762
Give me more detail about how you're breeding.

>>30811762
If you're just talking about regular breeding and not swap breeding, the male will pass down his ball if you're breeding with ditto.

If you're breeding the male with a female, the male only a chance to pass on its ball if the male and female are the EXACT same species. Like Abra + Abra. If you're doing sometging like Abra + Kadabra, that isn't the same species and the ball will come from the female.

If you're doing it right and not getting the male's ball ever, it's just bad luck.

>>30811762
>>30811948
If you're swap breeding, the ball is one of the things that is locked in and resetting won't change it.

>>30811948
Okay, That explains it, I hadn't seen anyone explaining it, just that it was possible, thanks man

>>30810325
Wait so if I use a magnezone I would have to ditch one hatch one for every egg?

>>30812360
If you're swapping to Magnezone from Magikarp or any other Gendered pokemon, yes. This doesn't "skip" any eggs in the sequence, though. If you identify that shiny Magikarp is 10 eggs after your last save and swap out to Magnezone, the 10th egg you HATCH will be the shiny, not the 5th. Rejected eggs don't count as pokemon.

>>30812360
>>30812458
Remember that after swapping Magnezone in, you have to reject the first Magnemite egg and continue alternating from there. You can't accept the first Magnemite egg and then reject the second.

Reject odds, accept evens, essentially. For swapping to fixed-gender or genderless pokemon

>>30812503
Of course, if you swap Magnezone in RIGHT BEFORE the shiny egg, you just reject one accept one and you have the Shiny, you don't have to worry about some alternating sequence. That's only if you swap Magnezone in multiple eggs in advance.

>>30812503
Thanks for the help. Hopefully I could get this to work. This is a really neat trick though. Have any plans of making a YouTube tutorial for it?

>>30810114
Don't have the disassembly, but if it works like last gen, then it just takes the XOR of the upper half of the PID, the lower half of the PID, the trainer ID, and the secret ID and checks if the result is <16.

>>30812749
I don't have the time, video editing experience, or game capture tools to do that. Anyone else is welcome to, though. It's just a matter of understanding the material well enough. I'd be hesitant to commit it to video right now anyway because we're still finding things out. We've been deciphering this for days and just last night did someone figure out that the pokemon staying shiny won't work without the Masuda method or shiny charm, which is kind of a big deal.

is there a reliable method for the pokemon without a gender roll? Like, if I get a shiny Magikarp, is there a way to get a shiny Dhelmise that way? Or is it better to just breed Dhelmise?

>>30813200
Read the Gendered and Fixed-gender section of the OP image and the question about Magnezone just a bit above your post. Dhelmise works the same way that Magnezone does

>>30813277
The only thing I can tell you is up in the air is whether the genderless pokemon will be considered the male or the female when it comes to who the IVs are inherited from. It seemed at one point that genderless was treated as male for this purpose, but I remember someone else suggesting it might be based on their egg group.

Unless someone can pop in right now to confirm one way or the other, I'd recommend doing a quick check of your own to see which gender your Magnezone or Dhelmise is counted as before you commit to going for a perfect shiny.

>>30812879
Yeah that's true. Once we figure out all the kinks to it though it would be cool to have a video explanation . But this is still a awesome thing to know about so thanks OP.

>>30811948
>If you're breeding the male with a female, the male only a chance to pass on its ball if the male and female are the EXACT same species.

Is that really so? I remember some anons got the ball to pass down when using other mon in the same evolutionary line.

Gotta test this myself real soon I guess.

>>30815236
Just did a swap from ditto+magikarp to hakamo-o+jangm-o(female with specialball) and got the expected stuff, so can pretty much confirm there was no roll for the ball and it passed automatically.

>>30816795
Clarifying, it was for two eggs in a row.

Does anyone know any way to get the girl that gives you eggs to just stop for a moment? I try to go back so I can put all the eggs inside my box and save but every time another egg is generated. Anyone know what to do?

Take one of the Pokemon out of the nursery.

Get the nursery girl's last egg, put them all in your box, go to the counter and take one of them out so they stop producing eggs.

Don't save after just collecting the eggs if you want to swap them. You won't be able to adjust anything if you save.

>>30817222
So basically take a Pokemon out just to give me some time to hatch , then put it back in and save? Does that ruin it?

>>30817270
Taking a Pokemon out of the nursery temporarily doesn't ruin it.

After you take the Pokemon out, take your time and hatch the eggs and see what you get. If you don't get what you want, then yes, put the Pokemon back in the nursery and then save.

If you do get what you want, you don't save. You have to reset the game without saving to do the swap.

>>30817310
K thanks .

Hey anon who's making the image guide, if you've got the time how about having a section on how to exploit this for shininess? Something like >>30806345, or maybe >>30792874 from last thread

>>30819912
I plan to. Don't know if it will be tonight.

>>30806345
After reading the OP image:
As an slight variation of that, could i also do the following? I don't wanna deal with mass releasing all those pokemon.
Hatch 30 eggs,
if it's shiny, reset, replace parent and get wanted pokemon.
If it's not shiny. reset, skip one egg, save, and look at the next 30 eggs, repeat ad infinitum.

Since skipping an egg skips a single roll every egg should be completely different.

Although I think i already spot a problem with this. once i skip the same amount of eggs as the amount of rolls a single mon uses , i practically look at the same 29 mons as in the first batch of eggs, i just skipped the first.
So i still would have to take the last batch and keep it to get to 30 complete now eggs, right?

How do I tell what my Pokemon's IVs are after its hatched??

>>30820975
Hatch at least 20 eggs. Go to the battle tree. The guy next to the pc will upgrade the PC to give you the ability to check IVs.

>>30820922
I think you're correct, at least in your final thought there. As we understand it so far here, the first five rolls for a Pokemon are static. Gender first, then nature, ability, and two other mysterious things. Then it rolls for IVs. The thing with the roll for IVs is that it doesn't always roll the same number of times here. Then it rolls for shininess, and this number varies depending on the variables you're employing (shiny charm, masuda method), but is still predictable.

Because of the IV rolls, there is no single static number of rolls for a Pokemon, it varies mon to mon. The fact that IV rolls vary this much is probably why tampering with a Destiny Knot screws everything up, but the Everstone doesn't.

What I'm getting is you plan to do a sequence of 30 eggs, if you don't get what you want from that, upon resetting, you skip an egg to offset the whole sequence, and do it again, and if you still don't get what you want, you do it again, but this time you've skipped 2 eggs. But you're worried that if, say, a Pokemon was composed of 15 rolls, then once you've reached a point where you're rejecting 15 eggs, you've looped right back around to the original sequence.

Although every Pokemon isn't composed of the same number of rolls, yes, it stands to reason that if the first Pokemon in your sequence was composed of 15 rolls, then skipping 15 eggs would offset it completely and put you back where you started. I think. The more I think about it, the less confident in my understanding of this I get.

There's a lot we don't know here, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were reasons that we either don't know or I'm just not comprehending that would cause that not to happen. It would be an interesting thing to test, seeing how many egg rejections just offsets the entire sequence like that, if it does at all.

Ultimately, I think you're better off mass-releasing like normal.

>>30821375
Frustratingly, now that I've typed that out I think I have an idea of why rejecting eggs like that wouldn't simply offset things but I can't think of how to put it into words. One way or another, it's completely untested, so I would still just suck it up and release pokemon like normal.

That was a really interesting question though, I want to know if there's any validity to that, but it's a massive time investment to test, especially when I can't even ballpark how many rolls the game makes for IVs.

>>30821375
>>30821411
Alright, thanks for clearing that up.
I think i do some testing later today, but only with a sequence of two or three for a start and look for when the first egg in a sequence is the same as the second one in the very first sequence.
If they are all looking completely random except for those two i test it with a larger amount of eggs.

>>30821411
I'm relatively new to this so forgive me if this is stupid. If instead of keeping 30 duds, you reset, take out both parents, stick a 2nd ditto (no knot) and some other trashmon, get the egg, and then put the original Ditto/Karp pair back, would that completely reroll a new batch of 30?

Something I thought of while writing this, would releasing a single box be less time consuming than doing this once every in every 30 hatches?

>>30821744
Ways to reset the sequence entirely and indefinitely from the original save point hasn't been tested at all. I can't tell you if that would work.

I believe releasing 30 shitty Magikarp could be done faster than resetting, replacing the parents you were using, getting an egg, and then putting the original parents back in.

>>30821780
Neato. And just for clarification on going after genderless shinies while using Karps as dummies. If I want the sequence to hold up I need to reject every 1st egg that they come up with? (reject > take > reject > take etc) or am I reading that wrong

>>30821821
That's correct. Keep in mind that the eggs you're rejecting don't advance you closer to the shiny.

If the shiny is 6 eggs away from when you swapped your genderless Pokemon in, then

Reject > Take > Reject > Take > Reject > Take

would not get you the egg. You need to do

Reject > Take > Reject > Take > Reject > Take > Reject > Take > Reject > Take > Reject > Take

6 Takes. Only taken eggs count.

>>30821856
Gotcha, thanks senpai. That shiny Minior will be mine

>>30817310
Does it ruin it that I saved before putting it back in ?

>>30822030
No. The only reason to be careful of when you save is because if you save when you have an unhatched egg and that egg is a shiny Magikarp, now that you've saved, you can't swap it.
You can save before or after you put the parents back in.

Is there any other stuff that advances the seed for eggs? Like fighting wild pokemon.
Or is a different seed used for that and the seed for eggs is untouched if not actively breeding?

>>30822066
Common tasks like fighting wild Pokemon does not advance the seed for eggs. So far, we haven't found anything else that does. It appears only nursery and egg hatching and rejecting related tasks will affect your eggs.

Oh, there's one thing that does. Receiving the Shiny Charm, because it boosts your shiny chance, affecting your eggs. If you start this process before you have it, and get it in the middle, it will fuck it up.

>>30822061
So as long as there are no unhatched eggs and the breeding girl doesn't have a egg I'm good?

>>30822132
Exactly. After hatching the last egg in the previous batch and before the nursery worker has the first egg for the next batch is a completely safe saving window. You could hatch the last egg from the last batch, go on and do 70 rounds in the battle tree and catch 60 new Pokemon and come back, having saved dozens of times, and then continue as normally.

>>30822148
Do I have to do a set amount in the batches? Or can I just do whatever amount I feel like

>>30822160
The batch can be as big or small as you'd like. You could save after every individual egg. You could do 17 boxes in a batch.

>>30822166
Lol thanks again for answering all my questions. This is a amazing method. How did you find out about it ?

>>30822293
It started with this thread back on Saturday
>>30676572
It's been almost a week and we're only on the third thread. They've been crawling along.

I didn't find out about it, I just helped do some tests and collected the information into an image.

>>30805742
Just wanted to get some clarification on this, but the Pokeball of the parent that you swap in will still be transferred on to the egg, right?

>>30822502
Yes.

File: 1452257628617.png (698KB, 681x2766px) Image search: [Google]

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It's very late, so on top of typos, there might be some logistical errors here. If you're familiar with how things work, correct me and I'll fix them, otherwise I'll give it a once over myself tomorrow. Also let me know if something just doesn't seem clear. Clarity is the priority right now.

I just wanted to focus on getting all of the information in here this time, based on what people have had questions about in this thread. The step by step guide is at the bottom. I'll condense it and pretty up the new sections as best I can tomorrow, hopefully. I get the feeling that the formatting here will need a fundamental reworking if I want to shrink it down into something palatable.

I still don't get something: If I hatch a Magikarp that has, say, all perfect IVs, and it's holding a Destiny Knot, if I reset and change pokemon, the egg that would correspond to that perfect Magikarp would also have perfect IVs no matter the IV difference between Magikarp and the second pokemon?

.... ok this sounds a lot convoluted so let's make a random example

I have a perfect Gyarados and perfect Ditto in the daycare. Gyarados is holding the Destiny Knot. I save the game, and then the next egg I pick up hatches and it's a perfect Magikarp. I reset the game and exchange the Gyarados with a Golisopod, which has random IVs. If I make an egg, would the result be a perfect Wimpod or not, since the IVs of Gyarados and Golisopod were different?

>>30822598
You are a good man anon .

>>30822628
Nevermind, posted seconds after the updated guide, ignore the post

>>30822628
Just added to the fresh guide posted right above you. No, the Wimpod would not get perfect IVs.

If an IV was passed on from Ditto or randomly generated, then the Wimpod WILL get it.

So if the perfect HP, Attack, and Defense came from Ditto, Wimpod would get those. If you randomly generated perfect Special Attack, Wimpod would get that too. Randomly generated IVs are consistent.

For Special Defense and Speed, which in this example came from your Gyarados, because you've swapped Gyarados for Golispod, your Wimpod will get Golisopod's Special Defense and Speed.

Is a "perfect" IV Pokemon one with "Best" in all six stats when I use the "Judge" feature?

>>30823157
Yes. But usually 5 out of 6 is good enough, since you'll only really be using either Attack or Special Attack anyway.

>>30823201
How would I get a perfect? Right now I've bred like fifty Magikarp with a ditto I got in a wonder trade, and I'm getting Pentaperfects consistently - if I start breeding the Magikarps with each other would I be more likely to get a perfect?

>>30821744
If you REALLY want to fuck up the sequence, put in a genderless/monogendered pokemon in with a regular Ditto, don't Masuda it, and don't use a Knot. Maximum change in IV rolls compared to the standard.
Of course, if you are normally not using a knot, add a knot instead. Go Masuda same-species, too, for max rolls instead of min rolls.
>>30823157
There are actually FOUR possible 'Perfect' pokemon.
The standard is indeed a 6x31 'Best' pokemon.
For anything that doesn't use the attack stat, Best in everything but Attack but No Good in Attack would be perfect.
There are also a very few pokemon who want to be as SLOW as possible - either because they want to go second always, or they're intended for a Trick Room Team, and they come in both variations above, only with the addition of a No Good speed stat.
And of course, you need the correct nature for all of these.

>>30805742
relative to breeding, you might wanna check if everstone helps with the ball passing, i've been breeding 2 ghastly, the male one in a normal pokeball is holding the everstone, the female one is holding destiny knot, so far, all of the eggs hatched have come out with the normal pokeball, i know now there is a chance for either parent to pass it now if they are the smae species, but after 2 boxes, i only got normal pokeball

>>30823274
If you have two parents with 6 perfect IVs you'll have a 1/32 chance to get a child with 6 perfect IVs, it's the highest you can get.

>>30822598
I don't understand the fixed gender part. I got a shiny Magikarp on third egg after my last save, resetted my game, replaced Magikarp with Beldum, rejected, the first egg, got the second, rejected the third, got the fourth, but Beldum was not shiny, did I fuck up?

>>30823347
Shit, so say I have one perfect pokemon and one 5/6

What are the chances then?

>>30822598
Just a little quirk on the gender/genderless part. You say "If you plan to collect several eggs after swapping, you'll need to alternate between receiving an egg and rejecting an egg". When in fact, it should be "between rejecting an egg and accepting an egg", since that is the order you want to do things. Something minor so people won't be confused.

Similarly, you could make it clearer in the same species / different species that the order here is reversed - you accept an egg and then reject one if you're doing several eggs. Again, it's not wrong, but people need the clearest instructions to work things out.

Right at the end, when you give an example with Cubone/Minior, the same thing applies to how you should reject/accept eggs.

That said, excellent work anon, the image is very informative and sums up everything we know so far perfectly, save for what I said above. Keep up the good work!

>>30823395
The third egg you PICK UP is the shiny one. Rejecting eggs only tinkers with the RNG, it doesn't count as an egg proper for the sequence. So you should do Reject - Accept - Reject - Accept - Rject - Accept, this last one should be shiny.

>>30823429
1.8229%.
http://mkwrs.com/destiny_knot/

>>30823395
It should have been in the sixth egg, assuming correct rejection, since the karp was third egg.
>>30823344
This needs to be tested - not doubting it happened, but confirmation needs to happen because sometimes ridiculous luck happens (For example, I thought they'd changed the ability inheritance to 100% this gen for a bit, because the first thing I bred ended up giving me a box of the same ability as the mother before spitting out one of the other ability). And more importantly, we need to check to see if it's simply overriding the ball roll (most likely considering that's what everstone does with nature) or skipping the ball roll entirely.

>>30823344
>>30823503
The disassembly says it's a 50% chance to pass down either ball when the parents are same species, period. Everstone has no play on it, it was just luck. What ball was the female in?

>>30823503
Do you know if there's a chance that I can lose the chance of getting the shiny once I reset to the last save?

>>30805742
This is as close to a breeding thread as I can see so I'll ask here
Breeding gyarados and bagon for dragon dance the baby bagons get bite and Dragon dance switch out gyarados with a 6iv ditto and the baby's keep inheriting dragon dance but not bite, why did this happen?

>>30807175
Underrated post.

>>30823570
duskball
so i got lucky 60 times? imma go get a lottery ticket

>>30822598
I've been lurking and trying to figure this out, but thanks for the updated guide :D

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>>30805742
Bumping thread with my experience with this. Lucked out and got the shiny karp on the 7th egg.

Say I'm breeding for a Jolly Perfect Magikarp - I have two Perfect Magikarps, one with a destiny knot, but neither have Jolly as a nature

Then I breed a Jolly Magikarp which is ALMOST Perfect - every stat is "Best" but one, which is "Fantastic"

If the end goal is "get a Jolly Perfect Magikarp", am I better off sticking with the two perfect Magikarps, or should I swap one of the Perfect Magikarps out for the "Jolly" Magikarp and give it an everstone?

>>30825138
Odds to roll the right nature is 1/25, and odds to roll a perfect child with 2 perfect parents is 1/32. Combined, that's 1/800, so definitely use the Jolly karp to get rid of that wrong nature. I can do the math but you're better off having nature right from the start. You can also abuse the IV inheritance trick described in the thread to get a Jolly perfect magikarp whenever you roll a 32 in the random stat that didn't get passed down via knot

>>30823791
If you got to your fourth egg and reset, thinking shiny Beldum wouldn't appear, then that shouldn't have deleted the shiny. There should still be a shiny waiting 3 eggs out from that save.

>>30825344
So basically no risk if I follow the method?

>>30825503
No risk. If you do exactly what you did with Beldum last time but just reject one more egg and then pick up one more egg, you should get shiny Beldum.

>>30825520
I wasnt the person with the beldum lol, but thanks .

>>30823900
Did the original Bagon have bite? If it did, that's why - both had Bite so the baby had Bite because level up move, but Ditto didn't have Bite so it didn't pass on the level up move, just the egg moves.

So two Perfect IV Pokemon have the strongest chance of producing another perfect

The next best scenario is a 6 IV paired with a 5IV

But with that 5 IV Pokemon - I know the answer might seem obvious, but in the one "imperfect" sixth skill, does having "Fantastic" make the 5IV more likely to produce a perfect than if it had "Very Good" in its flawed IV?

>>30827980
No, doesn't matter.
Also, when you are breeding two 5IV mons it's better if they are missing different stats and not the same.(for example one is missing attack and the other defence instead of both missing attack)

>>30828048
So in theory the "flawed" IV could be "complete dogshit" - the core concept is that 5 IVs will be inherited and the remaining one will be randomized, and when you breed 5 IV all you're trying to do is

1 - get the "flawed" IV to be the IV that's randomized

and

2. Have the "flawed" IV be randomized to "Best"

>>30828150
Yes, basically.

>>30828195
So with the 5 IV mons - why is it preferable to have the flaws be in different skills?(As you said, one missing attack, the other missing defense)

>>30828048
If you know you're breeding a physical attacking mon though, wouldn't it be better for both parents to be missing special attack? The worst egg you could get would be a 4iv, and you would know that all 4 of those IVs are a useful stat.

If one was missing special attack and one was missing attack, you could produce eggs that have both, but you could also produce eggs that have neither. The worst egg you could get would be a 3iv.

>>30828241
I'm not that guy.
Personally, I prefer to breed 2 pokemon with the same flawed stat, because outside of certain sets, you have one stat that doesn't matter to your desired pokemon: special attack for physical attackers, or physical attack for special attackers. After all, if you only use physical attacks, your special attack stat doesn't matter at all. It's similar to deciding which stat you should reduce when you're breeding for natures.
So, say you're breeding physical attacker Mimikyus. I would breed 2 5IV mimikyus that both are missing the Special Attack stat, because then each offspring has a 1/6 chance of randomizing SpAtk, which doesn't matter, and keep the perfect IVs in all the other stats.

>>30828417
Meanwhile, I'd stop once I hit the '31 IV in everything but special attack' step, personally, for that Mimikyu, because the extra 31 does nothing for it and you've already got two fully functional Mimikyu.
Going for a mixed attacker, of course, is a much bigger pain in the ass.

>>30828241
Math time:
When you are breeding with a destiny knot each stat has a 1/6 chance to be not passed down from any parent.
So if you are breeding 2 mons with the same IV spread the chance that the child inherits all five perfect stats is 1/6.
After that the last stat gets randomized with a chance of 1/32 so the total chance of getting a perfect 6IV child is (1/6)*(1/32) = 1/198

If you are breeding with two different parents
Parent A 31/31/31/31/31/X
Parent B 31/31/31/31/X/31
The chance is actually higher to inherit 5 perfect IV.
If it doesn't inherit one of the last two stats(1/3) it has a chance of 1/2 to inherit the perfect stat from the other one.
If it doesn't inherit one of the first four stats(2/3) it has a chance of 1/4 to get the perfect IV in the last two stats.
so 1/3*1/2 + 2/3*1/4 = 1/6 + 1/6 = 1/3
Now the last stat gets randomized making it a 1/96 chance to get a 6IV mon.

>>30828408
>>30828417
Yeah, pretty much only matters if you are going for perfect 6IVs for a mixed attacker or because of autism like i do.

>>30828639
>1/198
1/192. god damnit cant even do 6*32 in my head.

http://mkwrs.com/destiny_knot/ this site is pretty good for playing around a bit and yields the same results.

>>30828639
I am so glad my autism doesn't give a shit about MUST BE PERFECT NUMBERS

>>30828639
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for the explanation.

>>30828639
I suppose it would also matter for breeding "optimal" special attackers, because rather than wanting attack to be randomized, they want it to be 0.

So the contents of egg are completely predetermined and not generated when the egg is given to you?

>>30829661
Basically, yeah.

>>30829698
So when I reset my game without saving to keep from having to clear boxes I'm actually just fucking myself out of hours of trying to hatch a shiny?

>>30829661
Well, the RNG rolls are predetermined. Depending on certain factors, like using Destiny Knot, breeding genderless/monogendered pokemon, or breeding same-species pokemon, you may get different results.

>>30829724
Yes. Don't do that.

>>30829789
Got it. Well there go hours of my life. I don't care about shiny pokemon anymore fuck em.

>>30829724
You've wasted a fuck ton of hours, pal.

>>30829724
Essentially. If you breed one box, don't like anything in it, reset to right before you filled that box, and breed one box again without changing anything, the eggs should be identical.

If you aren't using the Masuda Method and don't have the Shiny Charm, though, whether or not the eggs are shiny is the one thing that will be randomized every time. You need one or both of those two things for the shiny roll to be static.

>>30829841
>>30829847
Thanks I'm glad I found out now so I can quit before I waste anymore time.

>>30829820
Important to note this is a quirk exclusive to sun moon, so it's fine if you did it in any other game. Probably.

>>30829890
Note that, as listed above, there ARE ways to disrupt things so they aren't identical anymore, via various combinations of swapping between same species/not, masuda/not, knot/not, and monogendered/not. Or rejecting increasing numbers of eggs at the start, though eventually you'll have rejected the same number of eggs as the first pokemon hatched would use anyways, so rejection combined with the other fuckery can disrupt things if your goal is to not have a billion full boxes.

The laymen use for this is to swap crap shinies for ones you actually want. I just hatched a crap shiny Bagon, reset, and gave myself a shiny Vulpix instead. 5IVs and even has it's HA, and I barely had to lift a finger. You guys are heroes for figuring this out.

So near as I can tell, all this does is mean you have dozens of boxes of Magikarp instead of a mon you'd actually want or could, like, give away to folks.

The only real benefit is it's faster, right?

>>30830790
Yes, basically. There's some more in-depth stuff you can do to get 5IV mons quick, but the primary use is to churn through 10 boxes of junk magikarps instead of 10 boxes of slow hatching other pokemon

I'm not that used to breeding yet so I want to make sure I understand.

If I don't want to get flooded with eggs I can Remove the Destiny Knot from ditto after I've made a box and put it back on and everything will reroll?

>>30830790
The other benefit is if you breed a shiny and it has the wrong ability (ie you wanted the hidden ability but got ability 2) you can swap it out for a pokemon that would prefer to have its second ability. It opens up options for shiny correction so fewer shinies are wasted.

>>30831359
We don't know of any surefire way to reset it like that and make sure it stays reset.

>>30831359
You need to roll at least 1 egg without the destiny knot to truly shuffle things.

>>30831545
Oh shit, did someone figure out the RNG?

>>30831545
Context would be greatly appreciated

Has anyone tested if a hard reset keeps the roll same way a soft reset does?

>>30831574
>>30831612
do you speak moon?
I don't
https://twitter.com/quan_dra

>>30831629
No but it looks very much like the RNG checker from back in Gen 5

>>30831655
exactly
Also, someone on twitter saysy the title of the program says "SM Hatching Random Number (Generator) Tool"

Ok, someone help me out here.
Let's say I want a shiny bounsweet, run the Magikarp dummy and get the shiny magikarp on the 5th egg.
I swap, reject 1st, take, reject, take, reject, take, reject, take, reject, take
And the last I take should be the shiny?

>>30831856
Yes

>>30831856
Just answering to see if I understand, I believe you just swap, reject, and then take, take, take, take, take and the 5th one will be shiny, or the 6th one if you count the rejected one.

>>30831900
No, please read the thread / image summing up everything. You need to either:

> Get 4 eggs, swap, reject, accept
> Swap, reject, accept, reject, accept, reject, accept, reject, accept, reject, accept

>>30831574
The Japanese community is weeks ahead of us on this, so it wouldn't surprise me.

>>30832325
Bastards hoarding info

>>30831574
We already know how the RNG works, the problems are that finding your seed is impractical unless you can extract your save file and that there's no easy way to advance the RNG state.

>>30831627
It's been asked and tested before: yes, hard resetting keeps the same things. Turning off the game, turning the power off on the system, both change nothing - the list of numbers is saved in the game.

Does the Ability roll work the same way if it's a mother plus Ditto? What if the father has a HA? Isn't there a roll that makes it possible to pass that down too?

Is it possible to have dragon pulse bagon? How?

>>30833025
Adding onto this, I just realized it isn't quite as impractical as I thought to find your RNG state without direct save access.

Some Japanese dude made a calculator that requires the least significant bits of 127 successive RNs (it was linked at some point in the thread iirc). To find those values:
1. Put two parents with different natures and both holding everstones in the daycare. Save.
2. Hatch the first egg and record which parent passed down the nature.
3. Reset. Reject the first egg you get and save.
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until you've hatched 127 eggs.

I believe first parent's nature = 0 and second's nature = 1 based on the disassembly, but there's a chance that it's the other way around. If you used gendered parents, the calculator should give the seed immediately following your current state, and if you used genderless parents, it should give you the current state.

>>30833170
The ability comes from the female every time, except when breeding with Ditto, in which case it will come from the non-ditto pokemon.

>>30833726
Makes sense since the game rolls for gender and then nature right after. Clever japs.

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So if I follow this method, who's to say that it won't take 1000 eggs before I get a shiny? And if that's the case, why wouldn't I just breed 1000 of the Pokemon I want like normal?
Or am I missing the crucial element of this method?

>>30834360
The reason you do this instead of breeding 1000 of the pokemon is that you breed 1000 magikarps, which hatches way faster, then ~10 or so eggs of the pokemon you want

>>30834360
Magikarp takes the least time to hatch of any pokemon. The thing you want may take quite a while longer than Magikarp.
That's what you're missing.
There's also the fact that you can attempt to manipulate things if you don't want boxes full of hatched pokemon.

>>30834418
>>30834459
okay, that makes sense
thanks for helping me understand

>>30833726
http://blog.livedoor.jp/x_x_saki_x_x/RNG/SMBreeding.html
Is this the one? If we know the seed we can determine exactly every roll and fully manipulate RNG into hatching an egg with the perfect nature, IV inheritance and ability. If you know your secret ID we could even manipulate for shinies.

I could theoretically write a script for it, which seems to be what the jap guy linked by >>30831629 seems to be doing, but I'd need to implement the TinyMT function exactly as it is in the disassembly, not sure how hard that would be. After that it's just a matter of checking rolls until you get what you want.

So I tried the Magikarp method and had a shiny pop up at my 16th egg. now I just reset and instead of Magikarp I put in Sandygast, and it will be shiny on the 16th egg, correct?

>>30837126
Yes.

>>30833726
Oops, should say that it gives the seed two rolls after current state and seed after current state respectively. Also, Nidoran/Volbeat/Illumise offspring species could be used instead of inherited nature if they were available. Double power item can also be used as well.

>>30836691
Yeah, that's the one.

As long as it works the same in game as the demo disassembly, it seems like it'd be more tedious than hard, since it'd just mostly be reimplementing parts of the disassembly.

On that note, anyone know where in the save file the current seed is stored?

>>30837617
You could try figuring out the current seed with the japanese guy's method and looking for that value in the save file's data, don't think anyone has figured that one out yet (except maybe the japs, but I wouldnt know).

>>30837193
Thank you, got my shiny Sandygast.

>>30837617
>As long as it works the same in game as the demo disassembly, it seems like it'd be more tedious than hard, since it'd just mostly be reimplementing parts of the disassembly.

This would be true if the disassembly for the TinyMT wasn't a fucking mess. I can make out the algorith just fine by carefully looking at how each variable is defined, but then it calls *((_DWORD *)this + 5) which is supposedly out of bounds for the seed (which should be only 128 bits long. It's probably reading the TinyMT parameter they're using, but I can't make out its value from just that.

Japanese websites that talk about the TinyMT in S/M seem to use 0x8f7011ee, 0xfc78ff1f and 0x3793fdff for the parameters when calculating seeds and values, but it's hard to assume so without understanding much Japanese. And I'm getting headaches trying to make sense of the return statement in the disassembly.

So does anyone know if hidden abilities are different in this gen?

I ask this because I was randomly breeding an adaptability eevee with an imposter ditto and I just noticed I've been getting anticipation eevees.
It seems too good to be true if I can possibly have any ha I need with this ditto

>>30838259
Ditto cannot pass down ability. Any pokemon breeding with Ditto can pass down its ability, regardless of HA or not. Are you sure your Eevee had Adaptability when you got one with Anticipation?

>>30838259

No you didn't

>>30838372
I'm honestly very confused about it. I wonder if it might be because it's a hexed ditto I got but I'll test it out with other Pokémon and hope to reproduce the results.
I took the eevee I hatched and immediately tossed him in the daycare so I'm really unsure of how this happened

>>30838132
Yeah, Google Translate suggests that the game's TinyMT uses those parameters which are the same as in sample.c on Github.

https://github.com/MersenneTwister-Lab/TinyMT/blob/master/tinymt/tinymt32.h
Looking at TinyMT's code on GitHub, *((_DWORD *)this + 4), *((_DWORD *)this + 5), and *((_DWORD *)this + 6) seem to correspond to mat1, mat2, and tmat as you suspect.

I'm having trouble justifying that the TinyMT function in the disassembly behaves just like the TinyMT described just about anywhere else. I know it must be, but the autism within me tells me to prove it. The bit I'm having trouble is the update of *((_DWORD *)this + 1) and *((_DWORD *)this + 2). The usual way of doing it, following the TinyMT algorithm, is:

if (y & 0x1) do
*((_DWORD *)this + 1) = *((_DWORD *)this + 2) ^ mat1
*((_DWORD *)this + 2) = x ^ (y << 10) ^ mat2
else
*((_DWORD *)this + 1) = *((_DWORD *)this + 2)
*((_DWORD *)this + 2) = x ^ (y << 10)

But the way it's in the disassembly, it seems to put all that in a one-liner and I can't help but feel something is off about it:

*((_DWORD *)this + 1) = (mat1 & -(y & 0x1)) ^ *((_DWORD *)this + 2)
*((_DWORD *)this + 2) = (mat2 & -(y & 0x1)) ^ x ^ (y << 10)

In other words, one should prove that (mat1 & -(y & 0x1)) is 0x0 when y & 0x1 is false, or exactly equal to mat1 when that is true. Similar for mat2. I'm sure I can do it myself if I think hard enough but it's 4am. Help is appreciated.

I built my own TinyMT in python and it works like a charm, I'll try to make it roll integers just like the disassembly does in the morning so that I can predict rolls and see how much I can predict the egg's outcome without going through the trouble of hatching any eggs. If I can fully simulate the game's RNG in my script with its own TinyMT, we'll be one step away from full RNG manipulation. (Not like no one has done it already, that jap that was linked earlier seemed to have a GUI already done for predicting egg outcomes). For now, I shall sleep. Keep the thread up and thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far.

>>30805742
Is the quirk where, if both of your IDs end with the same digit, you'll have a higher chance at receiving a shiny Pokemon?

Do eggs have a shiny marker or do you need to hatch them to know if the pokemon is shiny?

>>30842373
they dont, since until they hatch, its up in the air if they are shiny or not.

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>>30842495
Thanks, wanted to know because I have a bunch of eggs I want to spam wonder trade with but don't want to accidentally give away a shiny

>>30842512
you cant trade eggs

>>30842638
fugg

>>30841717
Remember, arithmetic negation is not logical negation. When (y & 0x1) = true (0x1), -(y & 0x1) = -1 = all 1s in binary, so (mat1 & -(y & 0x1)) = mat1. Similarly, when (y & 0x1) = false (0x0), -(y & 0x1) = 0, so so mat1 & -(y & 0x1) = 0.

Also, the creators' implementation on Github uses essentially the same update in tinymt32_next_state as the disassembly.

does releasing hatched pokemon manipulate anything or can I just get rid of the magikarps?

I've been translating the breeding code from pastebin. I figured I should share this extra (untested) info.

1. This method adds an extra RN roll at the begining before the gender check if your female or non-ditto parent is Nidoran M, Nidoran F, Nidorino, Nidoking, Volbeat, or Illumise.

This means that you can't use Magikarp test parent if you're trying to get baby Shiny Nidoran F, Nidoran M, Volbeat, or Illumise.

2. If, for whatever reason, you equipped both parents with Everstone, the game will add an extra roll after rolling for nature to give both parents 50% chance to pass their nature. For the love of God, don't do this, EVER.

3. When determining IV spread, the game rolls 8-11 RN depending on the presence of power items and/or destiny knot

It will roll 8 if one of the parent has power item and the other not equipped with destiny knot or any other power item:
- 2 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV,
- 6 for each of child IV

It will roll 9 if both parents are not equipped with destiny knot or power item:
- 3 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV,
- 6 for each of child IV

It will also roll 9 if both parents are equipped with power items:
- 1 to determine which power item will take effect,
- 2 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV,
- 6 for each of child IV
This means only 1 power item can activate, you can't use 2 power items to guarantee 2 IVs inheritance.

It will roll 10 if one parent has power item, the other destiny knot:
- 4 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV,
- 6 for each of child IV

It will roll 11 if one parent has destiny knot, the other not equipped with power item,
- 5 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV,
- 6 for each of child IV

>>30845334

Edit: Just remembered all Nidoran M, Nidoran F, Nidorino, Nidoking, Volbeat, or Illumise are gender-locked, which means they added the above extra roll, but don't roll to determine their gender.

This actually means that their roll count is exactly the same as Magikarp and other gendered pokemon. The above pokemon are the only gender-locked species that don't require us to reject eggs before accepting to keep the RN roll count.

>>30845334
so, how many rolls in total does this make?

-Gender if not genderlocked/genderless
-Nature (this roll doesn't get skipped with an everstone, it simply gets overwritten, right?)
-Ability (does it make an ability roll even if it only has one?)
-Pokeball if same parents
-Shiny
-8-11 rolls for EVs depending on equipped items
-extra rolls for nidorans and volbeat/illumise, but it evens out because they are genderlocked

Anything i'm missing?
Asking because i'm still hell-bent on this >>30820922 idea. Didn't manage to do some testing yesterday.

>>30842786
Shit I'm retarded. Thanks, I should have thought of that. I'll run tests and check if I can predict egg outcome based on the rolls I get on my script. This will take time though, got other things to do today. Anyone knows if the two parents with everstone method will work for determining the 127 bits for that jap calculator?

>>30846129
1 optional role if the female or non-ditto parent is nidoran M, nidoran F, nidorino, nidoking, volbeat, or illumise,

1 optional role if the female or non-ditto parent is gendered,

1 compulsory roll to generate nature,

1 optional roll if both parents have Everstone,

1 compulsory roll to determine ability,

8-11 rolls for IVs:
- 8 rolls if one of the parent has power item and the other not equipped with destiny knot or other power item. 2 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV, 6 for each of child IV
- 9 rolls if both parents are not equipped with destiny knot or power item. 3 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV, 6 for each of child IV
- 9 rolls if both parents are equipped with power items, 1 to determine which power item will take effect, 2 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV, 6 for each of child IV
- 10 rolls if one parent has power item, the other destiny knot, 4 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV, 6 for each of child IV
- 11 rolls if one parent has destiny knot, the other not equipped with power item, 5 for random parent IVs that overwrite child's IV, 6 for each of child IV

0-8 rolls for PID:
- 0 roll if trainer doesn't have shiny charm and trainer not using masuda method,
- 1-2 rolls if trainer has shiny charm but not using masuda method, stop rolling when shiny
- 1-6 rolls if trainer doesn't have shiny charm but using masuda method, stop rolling when shiny
- 1-8 rolls if trainer is using both masuda method, stop rolling when shiny

And 1 last optional role if both parent has the same dex # to determine pokeball inheritance.

>>30846333
Edit: 0-8 RE-ROLLS for PID. Before this re-roll, was here is 1 compulsory roll to generate the initial PID.

>>30846333
>1-8 rolls if trainer is using both masuda method, stop rolling when shiny
Fuck, reading this makes me realize my idea is completely flawed since I would only have one new PID when I offset it by declining one egg, the first seven would be the same as in the original.

But thanks for clearing that up.

>>30845334
>>30846333
IV inheritance doesn't work that way. Based on the disassembly, it works exactly as was posted in the previous thread based on research the Japs did. It rolls a random stat and then checks if it's already been set to be inherited. If yes, it ignores it. If no, it rolls to determine which parent passes that stat. Then it repeats this until enough stats have been passed down. This can go on for however long it takes, and it's also what caused some people to think that rejecting eggs didn't do anything to future eggs, because it's easy for a 1 RN difference to get covered by rerolling for stats. You've also missed the roll for the encryption constant right after the IV rolls. There is no initial roll for PID, that's pulled from the main game RNG instead, which is the entire reason time machining requires Shiny Charm and/or Masuda Method. That PID is also not checked if any rerolls are available.

>>30846203
Anyway, two different Japs just released egg search tools:
https://twitter.com/rusted_coil/status/810020262632628224
https://twitter.com/quan_dra/status/810030792785072128

I've taken a look at the second one, and it has a decent amount of information, including how many RNs that egg will take, which is nice.

The everstone method *should* work (you should be able to use parents holding the same power items as well), as some of the Japs whose information has been pretty reliable have tweeted about it. I ended up just looking up the save structure and then diff'ed saves and checked it with TinyMT to find where it's stored after being unable to find it in RAM dumps.

Question , I'm taking a break from this method to try and complete my pokedex . If I beeed my primarina once does that break it? I was going to put my magikarp back in after. I know I should save before it also in case of a shiny.

>>30807115

Literally breaking new research here anon, you're gonna have to read for now

>>30847146
It'll mess with any previous data you've collected.
You START at any point, but if you had done stuff prior it'll change based on what you do (if it's the same number of rolls, that's just one magikarp further down. If it's a different number of rolls, then you just need to start again and ignore previous information)

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>>30805742
I have a quick question. I MMed a bunch of pokemon in X by saving in front of the breeder guy, rejecting the first egg then hatching the next five. I then soft resetted if no shiny. As far as I knew, the game generated new pokemon after you rejected the first one.

Does Sun and Moon roll the eggs far in advance? So you are forced to have boxes full of rejects now?
Thanks.

>>30805742
Holy fucking autism with no bounds.

>>30850029
Kinda, yes.
But if you know an egg is going to be shit, you can reject it. But if you continuously soft reset you will continuously get the same egg.

>>30850029
>>30850940
to be specific. You have seeded RNG, if you played xcom you know exactly what it is, if not:
Game produces a long list of random numbers. Those numbers get used for multiple calculations in an eggs stat.
So when you take an egg it uses multiple of those numbers to determine gender, nature, IV and more.
When you decline an egg it only uses one number(don't ask my why or for what).
Game also saves your position in your list, thats why you can't only soft reset and hope for different eggs.
You also can't really skip one egg because of >>30847047 description, every egg afterwards could still end up pretty much the same.
Conclusion: You can't breed anymore by just soft resetting. you have to keep all those breedjects/manually release them.
But they also made it possible to heavily abuse this system.

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>>30805742

Another tip, if you're breeding a Pokémon with low female:male ratio, use a Togepi.
It has the lowest egg cycle that isn't Magikarp, and it has a convenient 8:1 male-female ratio so it's great for that.

The only problem is that it can't scout for HA.

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Hey breeders, I have a simple question about destiny knot. I guess it's not entirely on topic but I didn't want to make a whole thread.

This Oricorio is the child of a 6IV Ditto with Destiny Knot. So why did only 4 flawless IVs pass down? Or could it be that one of the IVs of the Oricorio passed down to overwrite another IV?

>>30852521
The Destiny Knot doesn't pass on 5 IVs from the parent holding it. Who holds it doesn't matter. If one of the two parents is holding the Destiny Knot, the game will select 5 IVs between BOTH parents to pass on.

So in this case, of the 5 IVs it passed on, 4 came from Ditto, and one came from Oricorio. The one from Oricorio didn't "overwrite" Ditto's IV, it just decided to pass on Oricorio's instead.

If you take this Oricorio you just hatched and put it in the daycare with Ditto, you'll have a better chance of getting more IVs now. Because if it picks to pass an IV on from Oricorio, it might pick one of those four perfects.

>>30852521
Destiny Knot picks five IVs from between the two parents, not five IVs from the parent holding the Knot.
You could end up with two from the parent Ori and three from the Ditto, three from Ori and two from Ditto, 1 Ori/4 Ditto, 4 Ori/1 Ditto, all 5 from Ori, or all 5 from Ditto.

>>30852612
>>30852643
Ah, that is an important distinction. Thanks.
Will the sixth IV always be random? I haven't bred anything since HG/SS, so I'm used to those mechanics... I took all that time to learn them in depth and now it's not useful to know (if they even still work that way). Do they still pass down normally after the destiny knot functionality?

>>30852736
The 6th IV will always be random, yes.

Without Destiny Knot, 3 IVs from the parents pass on. Don't know if it was the same in HGSS. Destiny Knot isn't added to this, it overrides it, changing it from 3 to 5. Nothing else passes on after the effect of the Destiny Knot, your child gets 5 IVs inherited from its parents and 1 randomized IV.

>>30852807
Yeah, that's how it was in HG/SS. There was an odd thing where it was less likely for Defense to pass down, and less likely still for HP. HP could only pass on the first round, and Defense only on the first or second round. I wonder if that's still so.

>4th box in get my shiny fish

It begins.


There should be no issue with a soft reset and me saving just two or 3 eggs before the shiny so I don't have to hatch 30 eggs if i want to experiment yes?

>>30853889
As long as there's no change in rolls, everything should be the same.

I know this question has probably already been answered and I think it's the case but just to clarify, if I only care about shinies and not stats, could I do the process without a destiny knot?

>>30855481
Yes. The knot is not required for just getting shinies. Masuda Method and/or Shiny Charm ARE required, though.

>>30855568
Awesome, thanks a lot

>>30853889
>got my shiny minior

You guys are the best.

http://tellu.wpblog.jp/rng-abuse/7thgen-rng-abuse/guide-for-breeding-abuse-on-sunmoon/

>>30857106
That's it then, huh? This seems like a pretty definitive end result from all this.

>>30857106
Repeating a question in response to this from the shiny hunt thread, does this just tell you what the eggs will be in advance? If so, then using karp would still expedit the process a bit, right?

>>30857106
>>30857106
So this works if you use destiny knot or not?

>>30859092
It says you need everstone not dk

>>30859228
Sure but after you find your seed can you switch to destiny knot?

IVs that were modified with bottle caps don't have any effect in breeding but they do in battle, right? Does that apply to online battles as well or do I have to get a 6 IV Ditto for my competitive mons?

Woah, I get busy and I don't return and there's a new thread and almost 300 replies already. I guess that's a lot to read. (Tododile Guy)

>>30859670
They're fine online.

You can't pass hyper trained IVs on through breeding, the original IVs are used.
Hidden Power isn't calculated using hyper trained IVs, it uses the original IVs.

Those are the only "issues".

>>30859457
Yeah from what I'm figuring once you do the 127 eggs everything from there is just advancing the frames by rejecting or accepting eggs, you should be able to switch the parents out and set what it is you're aiming for with the program

>>30859457
>>30860225
Feels like destiny knot should mess up the seed for this, considering we already found out it fucks up predetermined eggs, which is the same thing really.

No reason not to just play it safe and use a knot the whole time.

>>30860352
You should use the both parents with everstone method and then switch in Destiny Knot. The program takes into account you are using the destiny knot and rolls eggs accordingly. What's predetermined is not the eggs themselves, but instead the numbers that are rolled when generating an egg, so since we now know how to manipulate those rolls, we can switch in Destiny Knot safely. Trust the japs.

Does anyone know how the game determines whether a pokemon is shiny or not? From what I gathered it seems to do something with the PID and your TSV, according to that Japanese blog guiding us through that Japanese tng abuse tool. Couple questions though, what's the TSV? Is it like the Secret ID or something? How exactly does the game compute shininess, is there a disassembly for that function?

>>30860352
You won't get your seed at all if you start with the destiny knot. Would be nice if there was an easier way to find your seed like back then you could just catch a Pokémon and check it's ivs.

>>30861151
The shiny value of the Pokémon has to match yours in order for it to be shiny. To find it it would be easier if you use the battle videos to check them or just have a hacked 3ds. From what I'm reading seems like having hatched a shiny Pokémon works too but I have no clue how to go about getting the value from it.

So, wait a sec.
I want a shiny turtonator via Masuda Method.
So, do I save before or after I deposit the dummy magikarp in the daycare?

>>30862401
you have to make sure you don't save when an egg is ready. Everything else can be worked around, like swapping parents.

>>30862401
Before/After you put the magikarp in doesn't matter, just don't save before the daycare worker outside has an egg. The simplest version of the rule is to just not save the game when you have unhatched eggs, be it in your party, your box, or in the nursery worker's possession. It's because you can't alter those eggs if you do, and they might be the egg you want to alter.

>>30862495
>just don't save before the daycare worker outside has an egg.

nice. Other person already explained it too, but for clarity, I meant to write "just don't save AFTER the daycare worker outside has an egg."

>>30862495
Ok, I think I got it. I did save, but the lady had no egg waiting for me, and I only have Talonflame in my party. So, if I find a shiny magikarp, I don't save, soft reset, switch the magikarp for turtonator, and hatch the same amount of eggs it took to get the shiny magikarp?

>>30862568
Yes. You don't have to hatch all the eggs, though. If shiny Magikarp was egg #12, after resetting you can pick up 12 eggs and only hatch the last one. You just can't reject any of the eggs the nursery worker gives you.

>>30862622
Really? Ok. I'm praying that this works, it seems like an invaluable tool.

>>30862651
Just remember, this method REQUIRES either the Masuda Method or the Shiny Charm - and that if you're Masudaing the magikarp, you need to Masuda the turtonator. And if you DON'T masuda the karp, you shouldn't masuda the turtonators.

>>30862866
I know. I have an english ditto and a japanese magikarp, and the turtonator is either japanese or chinese

>>30862935
You're good then, have fun.

>>30805742
So I'm not sure I understand this ability mismatch section.

Say I have a magikarp with swift swim, and the egg gives me swift swim. What steps if any can I take to get the hidden ability instead for any specific generated egg?

>>30863576
You can't. In this case, the only way to tell if a hidden ability would be passed down is if you breed something with a hidden ability in the first place.
I'm sure it wouldn't take too long to find a Magikarp with Rattled somehow.

>>30865570
So say I know the 3rd egg out is shiny, if I do find a magikarp with rattled, is that what will get passed to the egg? That's the part that's confusing me.

>>30849935
So basically as long as none of my old pokemon were shiny I'm good? That is all I care about.

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Question: Can the move relearner at mount lanakila teach moves that a pokemon can, but didn't learn from inheritance? I.e. teach Extremespeed to a Dragonite that wasn't bred to know it?

Nope. You can only learn moves within that pokemon's level up pool, or egg moves that were passed to it.

>>30866532
Shit. Thanks.

>>30865676
If you've already determined the third egg is shiny, then EVERYTHING about that egg has been determined.

Here's what's up, you find that shiny egg, and the Magikarp hatches with swift swim. But that doesn't mean anything. Hidden in the background, the game rolled a number from 0 to 99 to determine the ability. Because Magikarp only has one non-hidden ability, no matter what number the game rolls, the Magikarp egg have swift swim.

However, if the game rolled a 40 or higher, then when you swap in a Pokemon that has its hidden ability, the egg will have its hidden ability.

The only way to know if the game rolled a 40 or higher is to put an HA pokemon in and see what the egg gets. If the egg doesn't have its HA, there is nothing you can do to change that. It means the game rolled 0-39 for that egg and there is no way to change that without also changing the shiny roll.

If you do your breeding starting with an HA Magikarp, you simplify it a little because you will know beforehand if the egg rolled high enough to get an HA.

Does anyone know if there are any RNG calls outside of generating an egg, say, when you accept one? I'm trying to replicate the japanese tools but I'm getting two rolls less than they are. Example, the program says accepting a specific egg will advance 37 frames, but in my script, I only made 35 calls to RNG to generate that egg. Ability, gender, IVs all match. From using their software it seems to be they are always doing the ball check, since clicking the Ditto checkbox isn't altering the advanced frames counter. Even so, should it be 36 instead I'm still 1 roll too far. I've tested different seeds and scenarios, this seems to always be the case. Maybe talking to the lady advances one more frame (hence why we can skip a frame by rejecting an egg)? It's the only solution I can come up with.

Anyway, does anyone know the order the game stores natures in? I keep getting wrong results when comparing natures, so I probably have the wrong order (I assumed alphabetical in Japanese). Thanks for the help.

I'll make my scripts public as soon as I make sure I'm getting right results so we can have an open source and platform-independent way of abusing RNG. If I have the time, I (or anyone else) could try making it a webpage like destiny knot so anyone can access from pretty much anywhere.

>>30866685
Got it, thanks!

Is this even possible
>save 3 eggs before shiny
>not paying attention
>get 3 eggs
>3rd egg hatches beldum, a genderless pokemon

Should I not have had to reject a pokemon?

So say if I breed 100 Magikarps and the 100th one is shiny. I soft reset by game and breed the same magikarps until i get to 99 then i replace the magikarp with the shiny i want IE a cubone. Am i off or what

>>30867155
It is possible, just very rare. Assuming you're doing Masuda, it's possible that only the 4th reroll was the shiny one, so by skipping the 3 rejections, instead of getting it on the 4th reroll, you got it on the 1st. This assumes you also lucked out on the IV rolls and didn't get any roll differences between eggs. (Though in practice you probably got some difference there, shiny charm + MM is 8 rerolls so there's space for errors). IVs / ability / nature must be messed up though, if you planned on manipulating those.

>>30867445
It's Jolly(what I bred for), and all the IV's seem correct. Ability is also clear body, but that matches my other reset attempts. I guess it really was just pure luck? This was masuda+charm.

>>30867445
>>30867562
If you were using an Everstone, the nature would stay correct despite offsetting that. Clear Body is Beldums only non hidden ability, so there's no luck there, either.

It would just be IVs you got lucky on. That's still quite lucky, though.

>>30867415
Can anyone confirm is this is correct

>>30867635
Well damn, good luck for me then, thanks for the info.

>>30867648
Yes, I would suggest you save more often so you don't have to rebreed 99 eggs though. I did mine in batches of 30.

>>30867648
Yes, that'll work. After resetting you have to put Cubone in before the 100th egg, of course.

You also don't have to reset all the way to the beginning. If you saved 10 eggs beforehand it would be fine. It would even be fine to save 1 egg beforehand.

>>30867712
>>30867709
Have any of you tried this yet i will try it later today and confirm it

>>30867758
Yes, it's been tested several times and does work. It isn't just theory.

>>30866964
I haven't seen anything else said about advancing frames other than accepting and rejecting eggs.

>>30867826
One more thing It's a bit unclear if I save a few steps before the egg is hatched will the method still work or does it have to be before the shiny egg is produced i save

>>30867865
You have to reset to before the egg is even created. As soon as the nursery worker folds her arms indicating she has an egg, it's set in stone.

>>30868004
So i would have to save every 5 Batch of eggs then go through that batch and replace the Karp just before.

Does anyone know if changing the reigon of the parent will fuck up the sequence

Page 10 bump

>>30868589
yes

Buuuuump

>>30866964
So my own script based on the disassembly is also off by two RNs, even though everything else matches what quan_dra's program gives, including the PID and encryption constant. As far as I can tell, there really are two extra RNs consumed, as taking eggs is advancing my frames by the amount specified by the program and not my own script. This would make sense, as when the Japanese empirically determined the egg generation mechanism, they thought there were five RNs at the start, but from the disassembly we can see there are only three for nature, gender, and ability. It's clear then that those five RNs were actually two RNs at the end and three RNs at the beginning, though that still doesn't answer the question of what those two RNs are for. I also still need to test whether the ball check is before or after those two RNs, but I suspect it's before, given that the ball check is in the disassembly while those two extra rolls are not.

>>30872372
Like I said in my post, I believe I am off by two because the Jap tool seems to be rolling for ball inheritance regardless of input (which goes against the disassembly, since ball roll only happens when parents are same species), and then there's a magical RN that is generated at some point. My guess for this one is that when we accept/reject an egg, a RN is rolled for some unknown purpose (allowing us to skip a frame by rejecting an egg).

Since you seem to be able to test on cart already (I'm still determining my seed by hatching 127 Magikarps), maybe you could test if the Japanese tool is off by one if you breed stuff without a ball check?

Oh, the thread is Archiving D:

>>30872743
There are two additional RNs consumed after everything else that are missing from the disassembly.

As far as I can tell, quan_dra's tool never rolls for ball inheritance, as it gave the right number of RNs for the ditto + gendered mon pair I was testing with, as well as the correct stats/PID/etc.

>>30857106
>http://tellu.wpblog.jp/rng-abuse/7thgen-rng-abuse/guide-for-breeding-abuse-on-sunmoon/
hatch 127 eggs just to do 1 rng? not for me

>>30873492
So long as you keep track of your seed, you'll never have to hatch another 127 eggs

>>30805742
so, can someone explain to me how to get something with a fixed gender percentage like salandit? so, if I get a shiny after 8 eggs and then reset, I'll have to reject, then accept, then reject until I've accepted and rejected 8 times each?

>>30873594
Salandit has two genders, so there's no rejection involved. It's only things with only a single gender - like Braviary - or no gender at all that require rejections. EVERY pokemon with both genders has a 'fixed gender percentage', it's just usually 50/50.
The bigger problem with Salandit specifically is that a female Magikarp won't necessarily result in a female Salandit.

>>30873594
There's nothing you can do to ensure your Salandit will come up female. If the Magikarp is male, your Salandit will be male. If Magikarp is female, you have a 1/4 chance of your Salandit coming up female as well. If it doesn't, you just go until it does, like normal. This doesn't help with that stuff, unfortunately.

>>30874325
Thanks, was browsing thread and wasn't sure if it would work with 87.5 / 12.5, so pretty much if I hatched a Shiny Salandit and it was male I could simply soft reset and throw in another pokemon?

>>30874844
As someone said earlier, Togepi has the same gender ratio as Salandit and still hatches pretty fast so if you get a female Togepi you know you'll get a female Salandit.

>>30874844
Yeah, that's correct.

It's a bit trickier if you're going for good IVs as well, though. If you're doing this for a shiny Salandit with good IVs, it would be assumed you already have a pentaperfect Salandit to swap in. If you have to swap in something else if the Salandit is male, then the new thing also needs to have the correct IVs to pass on.

But I suppose even if your surrogate doesn't have good IVs, a trash IV shiny mon you can (tediously) bottle cap up to competence is still more useful than a shiny male Salandit.

>>30874325
alright, that's what had me confused, I thought you had to reject if it were anything other than a 50/50 gender split

Made a german tutorial for swap breeding for those who still don't understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH1bvOd76oM

New thread when?