When I first played Red, I always thought Ice was the second best type with Psychic in first. Why is it now regarded as the worst type?
Ice only resists Ice type attacks, is weak to stealth rocks, and two of the most common attack types (fire and fighting) as well as the niche steel attacks.
So ice typing is 100% a negative trait, especially when water types, who are defensive juggernauts, all have access to most ice moves.
Even most Ice types have shit abilities:
pointless as hail is the most useless weather condition that literally can be canceled by leftovers without a defense or offense boost like other conditions.
The only thing good about Ice types at all is STAB for Ice attacks. But Only Weavile and Froslass can really take advantage of that with their speed. In the top 150 fastest pokemon, only 3 are ice.
Being ice is suffering, pic related can fix that.
It was better in gen 1, because steel didn't exist, all of the rock and fighting moves were shit, and nothing bothered to run Fire coverage. Nearly every Ice type was extremely good in competitive play.
Ice is one of the supreme offensive typings, hitting those pesky Dragons and some other useful types like Ground and Flying, and to a slightly less useful extent Grass for super effective damage. It suffers because Ice-type Pokemon themselves aren't always fit to abuse the strength of their attacks, since they tend to be slow defensive types for some reason which is suicide for a type with such poor defensive type matchups. Freeze is also one of the if not the best status, but there is no move that can *reliably* inflict it (Blizzard did have a 30% chance in Gen 1...)
So people just slap Ice moves onto Pokemon capable of learning them (which are plenty), ignore actual Ice-type Pokemon, and call it a day.
Most Ice-types have are slow and have defensively-oriented stats. It only resists itself, and is weak to four common attacking types; Fighting, Rock, Steel, and Fire.
The Ice-types with high speed and attack stats are great.
All it really needs is some resistances other than itself, like Ground and Flying. Maybe remove the Rock weakness.
it doesn't even need the resistances if the mons made have more speed
the rock weakness is the only big thing keep it apart. i mean everytime a shitty ice type comes in, even after you've cleared all the opposing fire and fighting types, it loses 25% of its health for no reason
Wow, you finally did it, you finally identified the one thing holding the defensive-orientated ice types back, congratulations. Just ignore the fact that Talonflame can reliably destroy every ice type in one or two hits, barring Cloyster and Lapras, it's not significant at all
It has five weaknesses and only resists itself
Many Ice-type Pokémon are built to be slow and bulky despite the above
Every Water-type and their mothers know Ice Beam
Ice is a good offensive type, but if you want to use Ice offensively you can pick a Water-type. Ice-type Pokémon, with few exceptions, are shit for the first two reasons.
Damn, I really have to spell it out for you, huh... OP asked
>Why is it now regarded as the worst type?
And the guy who this conversation chain links to listed Talonflame. Because Talonflame is the 6th most used pokemon in OU. It is the fastest fire type and can easily destroy most ice types. People will seldom use ice types in a game where the sixth most used pokemon easily destroys it. Talonflame is a valid answer as to why ice types are considered shit
Also, most fighting types sucked and the strongest fighting move was Submission. No one used fighting types because Psychic was so good.
Most Ice Types in Gen-1 were also part water, so Fire Weakness wasn't that much of an issue.
Talking about dragons, even this benefit is diminished because fairies just do the job better.
GF doesn't care about ice types.
>talonflame doesn't even have priority fire moves, wtf?
As if that was a deal breaker, when it doesn't matter since it outspeeds all ice types regardless
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Froslass: 626-738 (222.7 - 262.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 470-554 (146.4 - 172.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Regice: 470-554 (137 - 161.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 662-782 (235.5 - 278.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mamoswine: 284-336 (79.1 - 93.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Try not being retarded, it might help figure things out
Mamo is 2slow
Weavile kills the same things, and base 125 Speed lets it outspeed Tornadus-Therian as well.
Mamoswine isn't particularly bulky either; the same things that kill Weavile are going to do a load of damage to Mamoswine too.
Mamoswine is UU weavile is OU
Weavile base attack is only 10 points off mamos so its not missing to much
Weavile has better Special defense and Speed
Stab knock off
And a better move pool
While mamo only got more Hp
Little more base attack
And Stealth rocks
GF doesn't like a lot of types.
>Grass was horrible until Gen VI, where it became marginally less horrible.
>Bug was so broken that they decided to make a whole new type to counter Psychic instead of just fixing the Bug type.
>Poison is STILL garbage in Gen VI.
>Bug was not just useless, but practically unusable in Gen 1 barring maybe Pin Missile on Jolteon as the sole representative of the whole type
>Gen 2 gave it a new offensive application against Dark-types, bumping its SE type coverage up to three. Wait, three? Is that right? Oh yeah, Poison now resists it. Along with half the type chart, among them the other new addition, Steel-type.
>over the years new and better Bug-type monsters and Bug-type moves enter the scene. At least the things are only weak to Flying and Fire. Things are looking up.
>FAIRY RESISTS BUG AHAHAHAH
Also where's my Poison type legendary Pokemon
Scizor and Metagross do well against ice types too. They also don't like Mach Punch. Really, when you're weak to two common forms of priority, it's gonna sting. Rock has that problem too, but they have some actual relevant resists.
I love both, but personally prefer Mamo as he's my fav mon, but the differences are pretty niche
>OHKOs defense form Aegislash without worry from Kings Shield
>immune to Thunder Wave
>Freeze Dry with just enough Sp Atk to wreck Gyarados, Swampert, and hurt Rotom W
>Thick Fat is better than Pressure and Pickpocket
Think of him as either a lead or a smasher of faces, while Weavile is the better late-game cleaner and sweeper.