Touhou Puppet Dance Performance TPDP

>>>/jp/

>>25017711
no

>>25017703
I assume both of those are banned from competitive play

>>25017802
Nah, they aren't even as potent as they appear (Wakasagihime in particular has a crippling x4 poison weakness)

>>25017802

Welcome to Puppets, where RU things are OU and the absurd things aren't that used.

>>25017854
That doesn't even make sense

What do you mean by "RU are OU" and "absurd isn't that used"?

>>25017883

You don't get it? I spelled it out. Some things that you'd think are bad can end up being common, while things that sound crazy aren't.

>>25017910
Oh.

I assume higher BST still means you're better by default

>>25017916

Not really. A lot of high BST stuff ends up being gimped due to poor movepools or bad typing or retarded stat spreads.

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>>25017703
>a new thread is up
>I'm still stuck here
I thought I was free.

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Ouch, all the weather+terrain moves learned by one puppet each at level 100 discussed last thread are priority -7. Like that makes sense for the one that sets up Genbu + Sunshower since Genbu by itself is -7 priority, but the other ones being the same way is just terrible, especially given how generally minor terrain effects are compared to weather.

>>25017916
Nope, if anything one of the biggest problems with this game's balance is that having a high BST means you get gimped TOO much compared to things with lower BST.

>>25017916
Nope, if anything one of the biggest problems with this game's balance is that having a high BST means you get gimped TOO much compared to things with lower BST, especially since only the low BST stuff gets really optimized stat spreads.

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>>25018005
Woops, that was a horrible editing error.

>>25017960
You will never be free

>>25017802
>Bans
>in touhoumon
Kek

>>25018062
Wait, there is something that is indeed banned in touhoumon: BANS

>>25018062
What's wrong with bans

>>25018489
They are killjoys and cause shitstorm debates, just see smogon.

>>25017711
Just give up.

>>25017703
You should have started the thread with a cute pic...

>>25019275
Duh. Next time then

>>25018548
God, have you played Pokemon singles without smogon bans? Even agreeing to not use the BST 670+ crap?

It is not fun. Ban the overpowered stuff please

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>>25020085
Doubt there's going to be a next time.

Maybe once an interface patch comes out there can be activity again

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>>25018489
>>25020120

>>25020298
How can you ban bans

>>25020120

I dunno, I have fun with Anything Goes. But that's because people are retarded there and quit against a level 2 Probopass.

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So who's the most disappointing puppet out of the LoLK/ULiL members from the expansion, across all three styles? Ringo? Seiran? Clownpiece?

>>25020553
Probably Ringo or Seiran. Doremy can be a disgusting glass cannon, Sagume is "fuck set-up sweepers forever: the puppet", Clownpiece is pure annoyance, Junko's speed style is actually pretty heavily optimized in BST (yes I will take base 125 SpATk and base 125 speed on something that isn't fragile as shit) and is generally nuts, and HecatiaE is just completely fucking overpowered in such a way that it makes me wonder how Hemo thought it would be a good idea.

"Let's take Aegislash, give it 3 stances rather than just 2, make it actually not slow as shit in the attacking stances, and make it change type in each stance to completely fuck over switch-ins and effectively give it up to 4 STABs"

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Remember how a few threads back I was hyping up WriggleP because 80% accuracy stop (thanks to her ability) + Mad Rush Stance was dumb?

I was wrong, the stop-inducing move she uses was buffed to 70% accuracy this game, so post ability boost it's 91% accuracy.

She's 4xweak to steel and thus stealth trap, don't panic.

>>25020734
SeiranE gets access to Backup Plan (i.e. Baton Pass) and Offensive Trance (i.e. Shell Smash), and has Inferno with Telescopic for going on the offensive.

SmashPass.

>tfw no english patch

>>25020814
I won't panic because you freak out about damn near everything in the game.

>>25020814

Speaking of hype, I'm glad SuwakoE is getting some more love. Nice typing, good stat spread that gives her bulk and power, and reliable recovery on top of being able to punish Changeling users.

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>>25020848
Yeah, I've realized at this point that anything that looks patently absurd at first glance in this game in reality probably isn't.

I'm used to Pokemon having it usually be as absurd in gameplay as it is on paper.

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>>25020814
Sounds like ban material, eh? Eh?

>>25021032

Just give it up already.

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>>25021032
>Sagume exists
>Phase Inversion is a move (learned by Sagume to boot)
>basically everything gets Upbeat

Like Gorebyss is basically this in a game that doesn't have anywhere near as much hate for that sort of strategy, and it's still not very good.

>>25021074

Also, being 4x weak to resident Scizor clone that's still very common.

>>25020120
Singles with smogon rules are not fun either, stealth rock is such a killjoy. (that thing should have never existed)

>>25021222
What's wrong with Smogon rules? There's a reason you run spinners or a defogger.

>>25020990
Raikoanon, your pictures are becoming more and more questionable.

>>25021222

I like and hate Stealth Rock. Partially because free switch ins can get annoying.

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>>25021307
That's about the limit of what I save, and even then I wouldn't have saved it if it wasn't cute.

>>25021317
I always felt like Stealth Rock in Pokemon was a necessary evil, because placing it down on the opponent's side of the field meant they couldn't just switch with reckless abandon and had to actually weight the cost of SR's damage versus the advantage of switching again.

Like with it up Voltturn becomes less painful to deal with.

>>25021317
>switch ins
>free

Wow haven't heard such an obvious newbie opinion in a long time. Ever tried putting a boost or sub on something?

>>25021279
Name one thing right about Smogon rules.

>>25021482
First name something wrong with Smogon rules.

>>25021482
Sleep clause.

>>25021455

They're not entirely free of course, but even with a sub or a boost, there are some things that will easily get past you, depending on what you and the opponent are using. I think Stealth Rock does a bit too much damage, but it's not some horrible thing that shouldn't exist.

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>>25021482
Sleep clause, OHKO clause, and evasion clause.

>>25021495
What is wrong for me with stealth rock is that it makes too much damage on types that were already shabby defensively (like Fire or Ice) while hardly hindering types that were strong (steel or fighting). It's bad design at its finest.

>>25021675

I wouldn't say Fire is that bad defensively, even with the pretty common weaknesses. But I get your point. Spikes feel more balanced, but not hitting flying types sucks, especially when they've become so strong lately. The Stealth Rock equal is similar in that it's on a very strong offensive type, but spinning is much easier here.

>>25021675
Yeah, but fire and flying types are still good even with the SR weakness. Ice honestly would be complete trash even if SR didn't exist anyway. It's really only bug types that are fucked over, and some of those still hold up anyways (Scizor).

Also, while Pokemon certainly isn't perfect, it's still much better than the alternatives.

>>25021508
But how they can enforced those rules?

So how rare are shinies in this

>>25023636
you can change any puppet into their alternative color or costume in a shop at the human village

>>25023636
There aren't whinnies here, just alternate colors and costumes you can buy.

>>25023770
*shinnies
Fucking autocorrect.

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>>25022968
Smogon prefers battling using a simulator rather than the real deal. One advantage to doing so is that those rules CAN be reinforced there. Another is that makes changing your team a complete breeze.

>>25023636
Alternate color palettes, rather than being 1/8192 of all encounters, are instead sold for 3000 at the human village, alongside an entire alternate costume. In the expansion, anything with a heart mark can also get a wedding outfit.

I should also mention that, as another reason why banning things is a dumb idea, that Hemo just released a new patch and about 25 puppets had their movepools changed in some way.

>>25023803

Oh baby, time to check my favorite puppets.

>nothing

Well, time to wait again.

>>25021691
You know, this isn't the best thread to talk about competitive Pokemon in

>>25023803
Wait, do you mean smogon never do actual WiFi battles?

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>>25024144
Sometimes, but generally they use a simulator. Without that, they can't directly reinforce their bans or clauses (outside of quitting in disgust when their opponent throws out 6 Kyogre that all know Double Team and Sheer Cold).

>>25024211
That sounds so boring

>>25024327

I'm okay with simulators, but then again that's because I've given up on putting any effort into the main games nowadays. Might just try for puppets when they translate it.

>>25024327
Fuck you, Smogon battling is fun and balanced compared to regular Pokemon battling..

>>25024211
So what you're saying is to never make a simulator for TPDP so bans can never happen

>>25024801
Touhoumon is already a PC game, along a simulator would be pointless.

>>25025145
Advantages to making a simluator:
Ridiculous ease to changing a team (like even easier than TPDP is to begin with)
Easy matchfinding for 6v6 singles, the one true format (TPDP's matchfinding is only for 6v3)
Chat channels so you can shittalk each other before and during the game
Bans.

>>25025301
Can't someone just use the pokemonshowdown stuff modified?

>>25025652
Probably.

Are using favorites to win remotely viable or is reality a cruel mistress

>Tfw no english patch

>tfw no spanish patch

>>25025301
Also spectating and a battle timer that doesn't allow for infinite time-stalling if you're losing.

>>25026446
The fact you are here means you know English.

Is stall viable with the expansion out now?

>>25027281
never ever

>>25027281
HAHAHAHAHA, NO.

>>25027300
>>25027416
Really? How come

>>25027463
There still are all the "fuck you, stalling" things: anti healing terrain, rapid spin for everyone, not everything can learn toxic.
You can make better walls this time, but the "smogon stalling" (never attack and let hazards kill the enemy) is still not viable.

>>25027496

No one even uses the anti-heal terrain though. It seems like everyone just stacks as many attacks as they possibly can.

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>>25027463
A more defensive playstyle is certainly still doable, and quite possibly more viable with the new walls available. Especially with the Sagumes to serve as a one-stop "fuck set-up sweeper" thing.

However, toxic still isn't universal, entry hazards still have poor availability at best, Upbeat (aka Taunt) is learned by basically everything, and they actually buffed Smash Spin in the expansion (+10 BP to BP 60) to further give incentive to use it. You can run all the walls you want, but you better be running actual attacks on everything and at most using entry hazards to supplement damage rather than be the primary (or god forbid only) source of damage.

>tfw no english patch

>>25027683
Nobody runs anti-heal because nobody stalls.

>>25027739
>barely anyone uses entry hazards
>Hemo buffs Smash Spin to tie with sign skills (meaning things might even just use it for type coverage now)

Literally why

>>25027863

>favorite was meant to do well against hazards
>no one runs them

Welp.

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>>25027281
Stall only works in the mainline games because you can make amazing defensive cores out of Pokemon that resist half the fucking type chart and have 1 single weakness. Even then it's only barely staying alive due to bizarre edge-cases like Mega Sableye, Ferrothorn, or Chansey.

With the type chart being totally redone in TPDP and no insane types like Steel existing, making a defensive core like that is almost impossible and anything you try will have massive holes in what it can wall. And way too many tools exist to counteract stall if it does start to be popular.

Sorry, fellow stallfag. We will never be meta.

>>25027863
Warp is immune to Wind so you can actually spinblock now

Also just because it's a TM doesn't mean everything in the game actually learns Smash Spin

>>25027933

I just want silly gimmicks. Like level 2 Probopass.

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>>25027954
I've been had. You aren't a stallfag at all, you're a fucking gimmickfag.

To hell with your Probopass, to hell with your Funbro, and to hell with your level 2s. I hope a Muk gives your team an enema.

>>25028002

Nah, I'm a different guy than him. I play AG just because it's funny.

>>25027933
So why the hell did Steel lose most of it's resistances again in this game?

>>25028050

So it could be one of the best offensive typings in the game. Also, so it could have Stealth Steel.

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>>25028002
Whoa Junko, calm down.

>>25028002
That wasn't me. Besides, Funbro is banned even in AG for the simple reason that it isn't actually fun in the slightest.

>>25028054
Yeah about that.
In Pokemon, Steel hits 3 things for SE and is resisted by 4 things (hits Fairy, Rock, and Ice for SE, is resisted by Fire, Steel, Water, and Electric).

In TPDP (post expansion), it hits 3 things for SE and is resisted by 4 things (hits Nature, Wind, and Dark for SE, is resisted by Fire, Water, Steel, and Warp). Numberwise, it's exactly the same, Fairy is pretty common in Pokemon, and Rock being weak to Steel isn't irrelevant either (hi Tyranitar).

In exchange for being arguably better offensively (because yeah the types it hits for SE in TPDP are generally more relevant than what it hits for SE in Pokemon), it is completely and utterly murdered defensively.

Steel in Pokemon resists 10 types, is immune to an 11th, and has 3 weaknesses to common types to make up for this.

Steel in TPDP resists THREE types and has the exact immunity and weaknesses. How the fuck did Hemo find that balanced in the slightest?

>>25028161
>those cups in the bookcase
HNNNNNNG

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>>25028161
The photo on the newspaper is this, why is sanae with worst (stat and move learning wise) starter?

>>25028210

Nature and Dark aren't particularly good, but Wind is one of THE types. Both Steel and Wind were so good they invented a new type just to beat both. Wind is still pretty damn good. Steel is around partially because Wind is so good. That and they kinda gutted it defensively so that types would be less divisive. There's nothing that's Ice levels of bad defensively here.

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>>25028161
>>25028272
Holy shit how did you recognize that

>>25028284
Yes, just like how Fairy in Gen 6 is one of the types and steel curbstomps it there.

Face it, stripping away SEVEN of the resistances Steel had in Pokemon is fucking it over for no good reason.

>patch tfw no english

>>25028334

Fairy honestly isn't that big. It's a really good typing, but you need to watch out for what, Gardevoir, Clefable? Mega Diancie is great but has an assload of weaknesses anyways and Azumarill is neutral anyways. Either way, Steel has a lot going for it. The top 30-50 spots are mainly infested with four types. Steel, Wind, Warp and Poison. Fire is also pretty popular though.

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>>25028210
>>25028334
I think the point is that Steel is hilariously overpowered beyond all dear belief as a defensive type in Pokemon. Like it resists literally over half of all types by itself, and that was after it got nerfed by GF in Gen 6. Steel is overcentralizing as fuck in Pokemon, since it discourages using attack types that it resists and heavily encourages using attack types that it is at least neutral to (and preferably one of the three that it is weak to). So rather than have the metagame heavily revolve around a single type, Hemo instead just made it so Steel wasn't overpowered at resistances.

Yes, Steel is much better in Pokemon than it is here. But Steel is much more balanced here and STILL is one of the best types in the game.

>>25028510
But the lack of a good "stall" type just makes it even harder for stall to work

>>25028519

I just wish there was a kinder environment for set up sweeping. SanaeE seems like the only thing that can really do it without Phase Inversion getting in the way, but she's inherently risky and relies a lot on mindgames.

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>>25028510
So many good steel types like pic related

>>25028272
same artist probably.

>>25028822
>long hair
No, it doesn't work on her...

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>>25029360
Yeah short hair is best.

>>25029400
But big boobs work on her, giving a literally small girl big boobs is hilarious.

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>>25029421
I disagree.

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>>25029458
What is wrong with boobs?

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Nothing, i just prefer medium sized boobs.

Also to get back on topic, how is Yuugi in this game?

>>25026770
>tfw people don't realize you're making a joke

>>25029681
She likes shotas

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Ok, I just popped into Smogon's IRC channel out of boredom and because I never went there even back when I was seriously playing Pokemon.

First thing I read is "more like fuck stall".

Most of them hate stall just as much as we do because it takes forever to play with or against.

Not RIP Stall.

>>25029681

Not particularly good. Also, they gave Brave Song to the Rampardos-like Yuugi. That's some trolling right there.

With all the stall talk in this thread, I'm wondering.

Does stall only exist in Pokemon because it's horribly balanced?

>>25030478

Stall is barely alive and it's still poorly balanced. I mean, could you have ever imagined the day you'd see Metagross in UU? Or Salamence? Not counting their powered up mega forms that give them a BST of 700 and a great ability. Even doubles is silly with Mega Mom running around, and now even Primal Groudon.

>>25030422
Wait, now ogon hates stall? Then the only place left that cares about it is /vp/?

>>25030506
Meh, Metagross was close to falling out of OU by the end of Gen 5. Not much of a surprise there.

But stuff like making steel so much worse defensively (seriously, why did you do that hemo), giving taunt to basically everything, making the spin variant a TM and giving it good distribution... it makes you wonder if Stall cannot exist in an actually balanced metagame.

>>25030534

I'm speaking back in Gen 3, when Metagross was pretty good. It was also nice in gen 4. Power creep is a crazy drug. Either way, Light is probably the closest you'll get to Steel in terms of defensive ability. Terrible offensively, 5 resistances, 2 weaknesses. Lots of things with a Light typing seem to resist a ton of stuff.

>>25030554
It still only resists half the types that Steel does.

>>25029681

her speed form is almost a direct copy of heracross with the abilities magic guard or a trapping one.

>>25030577

What's wrong with that? I love Steel but it doesn't need to have an assload of resistances. Besides, what would you even add as resists anyways? Nature is already an iffy typing, it doesn't need to be worse. Light is already horrible offensively. Void is basically normal and already has its two resists and immunity.

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>>25030577
You know, it might be that resisting 10 types is unbalanced.

The way the type chart here works, defensively nothing gets more than 5 resistances or 1 immunity, and if they get an immunity they get 3 other resists top. Meanwhile, all types except for void have at least 2 weaknesses (but never more than 4), and void has literally just a single immunity in exchange and no resistances.

Stall cannot exist in TPDP because TPDP has an actually balanced type chart.

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>>25030656
Oh duh, and Electric also has just 1 weakness, but in exchange it only gets 2 resistances (as mentioned, an immunity counts double, so void gets 1 immunity while electric gets 2 resistances)

>>25030671

Does anything like having a Void typing anyways? SanaeE seems be the only thing that appreciates it, and that's because she likes having STAB Hard Fighting Power.

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>>25030656
Oh, fun fact. The only ACTUAL resistance it had in regular Pokemon that it lost was Grass/Nature. All the other types it resisted in Pokemon just don't exist in this game.

>>25030879
To elaborate, Bug, Ice, Rock, Psychic, Dragon, Normal (although Void is pretty close), and Fairy all don't exist here; Steel doesn't resist Grass/Nature anymore but it still resists itself, it still resists Flying/Wind (and gets to hit it back for SE in this game), and it resists Illusion (which is pretty close to Psychic in this game).

Is rika good yet

>>25031099

She was supposed to be like Aegislash with her new form. But no one uses her.

Fuck it, I don't care if it's suboptimal, I want to stall.

How do I make a stall team in this

>>25031396

Extra Momiji makes your Ferrothorn. Watch out for fire as usual.

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>>25031396
Don't. There is a reason the thread has been screaming "don't do stall", and it's not just because stall is boring to play against. It's because stall is not viable in the slightest on account of Hemo hating it as much as most people do. If you try to make it work,all that will happen is failure. You will do nothing but lose and make both you and your opponent miserable.

Go bulky offense instead if you want to tank things. A lot of the things you would use in a stall team like MomijiE will still work perfectly fine there (just replace the toxics and the like with actual attack moves), and even legit walls like OrangeD can be utilized without destroying your ability to win the game. It's just the way this game is designed, the only way to win is to have your waifus hit the other waifus in the face while doing a cute animation. Not doing so will result in you losing, and for good reason, because you're denying the puppets the fun they want to have.

>>25031396
Theorymonning (theorypuppeteering?) warning.
You'll need something immune to Upbeat, which I believe only Curse Return can do.
Next you'll need a Chaos type to spinblock Smash Spin.
A status absorber is useful too, because your Curse Return puppet can't take on every status user by itself. Alternately, and in hindsight you'll probably want one anyway, use a puppet with Forest Therapy, or else any puppet that gets hit with Weakness is as good as dead.
A Wisdom Eye user is probably good to have, but there aren't all that many boosting sweepers I don't think. Don't quote me on this.

Other than that, try to cram in as many hazards and puppets with immunities (with no end-all be-all defensive type like Pokemon-Steel, you're gonna need GOOD switch-ins for everything) as you possibly can.
Good luck, you'll need it.

>>25031638
That still seems really risky, especially given how many things can learn Smash Spin (and thus that means there will be some that can force out the Curse Return user). Like if you're using MimaP as your Curse Return user and the opponent's FutoS saw the switch coming and used Changeling, what do you do?

Why is HecatiaE so overpowered again?

>>25032390

She's got a crazy typing, BST and ability, but I'm not sure if she's overpowered. She has serious 4MSS and both her attacking forms are weirdly weak to Steel and Fighting.

>>25032390
Because she doesn't wear bra or panties...

Random question: How useful is Youmu

>>25032942

She's pretty useful.

>>25032979
Can you elaborate

>>25033361
She's a gardener.

>>25033974
I mean in regards to TPDP

Stop giving me half-answers and just answer the question

>>25034122

That wasn't me. But I dunno, she's common. Extra form could just be called Ferrothorn: Special Edition. Even has a special version of Iron Barbs. Speed is a fast mixed attacker.

>>25034150
I thought MomijiE was Ferrothorn

>tfw

>no

>english

>patch

>>25034363

She is. Youmu is kinda like special Ferrothorn. I say kinda. She's not as slow and doesn't have the sneaky pebbles, but she hits on the special side and her defenses are slightly more oriented towards special defense. Same typing too.

>>25034407
>>25034411
>>25034416
>>25034421
What wasted of posts.

>>25034436
>there are now two Ferrothorns

Where are the flamethrowers

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>>25035809

How viable is running nothing but cute things in this

>>25036173
puppets are a lot more balanced than pokemon, so it's very viable
pretty much every puppet is cute anyway

>>25036188
>puppets are a lot more balanced than pokemon, so it's very viable

In what way

>>25036188
Good.

Does almost every pokemon have a puppet counterpart and vice versa, or are some just their own thing?

Not that I'd build a team based on my favorite pokemon's counterparts but it'd be nice to know.

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>>25036253
There are some that are (SakuyaP's similarity to Scizor for instance), but the different game mechanics, typing, and movepools means they're still pretty different, and generally the Pokemon counterpart is stronger. For instance, SakuyaP doesn't get the game's equivalent of Pursuit and doesn't have STAB on the game's equivalent to U-turn, and her strongest fighting move even with STAB pre-expansion was tied with Scizor's non-STAB Superpower anyways. MomijiE is basically puppet Ferrothorn, but she doesn't get the game's Spike equivalent and Steel is not the defensive juggernaut it is in Pokemon by any means as mentioned earlier in this thread. RaikoA post-expansion is basically a Rotom alternate form without levitate but with access to Decresendo (aka Parting Shot) to make it somehow even more annoying to deal with.

A lot of the strongest puppets though have no direct counterpart, like SukunaD or AyaP.

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Hemo hasn't posted new art in a while, i wonder if he is working on a patch?

>>25017703
wait, so the guy that asks you your favorite, does he actually control the first puppet encountered?

Cause I set it to xanadu (the only character I know besides cirno. if she's a bad choice, don't judge, I just know she got a neat drum'n'bass song.)
then she was what showed up and became my starter.

>>25036744
yes

>>25036313
>the pokemon counterpart is stronger
>>25017703

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>>25036751
okay, neat. sure would be cool if real pokemon did that, but they're not balanced enough for that to really be viable.

Okay, second question, how do you make it stop showing all numbers as letter combinations?

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>>25036770
Set your locale to Japanese with Applocal or Locale Emulator

>>25036797
dang, it lost my save.
oh well. at least everything is readable now.

>>25036866
I don't suppose there's a patch which replaces all the generic anime girls with something a bit more distinctive to tell apart, like colorful animals of varying shapes, possibly with species names that help explain what they are as well? Cause I can tell right now just by re-scrolling through this list of starters that there's no way I'm gonna be able to keep all these straight. I mean, I understand the game is made for fans of touhou, who presumably know all of these 115 characters by heart, but like, these are not easy to memorize or guess. There's no clues/cues.

also, why does the wiki have wedding costume sprites for all the puppets in the YnK expansion?

Please tell me this game doesn't end up going full waifu tier.
Or is it being jokey and is part of the breeding mechanic?

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>>25036919
Pokemon is still there if you want it.

Anyway, you aren't going to get any kind of hints until you fight trainers with level 30+ dolls with Style Change. When a Style changed doll is sent out an effect plays revealing one of its types.
You're not getting anything until then so unless you want to look for character bios, keep a tab open on the Puppet Wiki's dex, or look at gameplay from the main series, you can just see the effects of different attacks manually and catch every thing in sight.
>>25037015
It's and extra costume you can get for your favorite doll. I think people said you need some item to get it to be available.

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>>25037015
Is an special costume you get for your starter in the expansion, also you can buy it for any puppet that reach level 100.
And anon, this game is about cute girls, it was a waifu war since day zero.

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>>25036919
>I don't suppose there's a patch which replaces all the generic anime girls with something a bit more distinctive to tell apart, like colorful animals of varying shapes.
Is this bait?

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>>25036919
>>25037015

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>>25037055
What you golden chao pic has to do with anything on this thread?

>>25037070
I realized how bait-ish it sounded when I said it, but no.
for real, like gamefreak has made some bad design choices, but making pokemon visually distinct and give multiple clues as to what it is and does (name, appearance, sometimes even cry) is one of the reasons that 5year olds can just pick it up and play it, never once stopping to think "wow there's a thing in front of me. what is it again? some kind of plant? How am I supposed to know. Let's just throw something at it and hope for the best."

Its one of the reasons I use randomizers that can re-paletting by type. Because all those initial hints are gone (looks like a kickboxer, named like a kicboxer, but now its fire-grass) I at least want something like color there trying to help it along.

Having nearly every character be "anime girl in slightly different clothing" and have no visual distinctions at all between style changes, is a very poor design decision.
So I was wondering if any other players felt frustrated by this and created a patch that gave them things like names that aren't gibberish to an english speaker such as myself and give hints to their purpose, perhaps re-spritings that hinted at their abilities, moves, types, something?

>>25037113
It's a tutorial robot.

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>>25037128

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>>25037128

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>>25037128
Just go back to play pokemon and forget this game, anon.

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>>25037128
it's a game made mostly for fans of touhou
even then it's not that hard to get into if you're just coming from pokemon

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>>25037128

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>>25037191
>messing up the quote

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>>25037128
>Having nearly every character be "anime girl in slightly different clothing" and have no visual distinctions at all between style changes, is a very poor design decision.
>So I was wondering if any other players felt frustrated by this and created a patch that gave them things like names that aren't gibberish to an english speaker such as myself and give hints to their purpose, perhaps re-spritings that hinted at their abilities, moves, types, something?

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>>25037203
Damn you, anon, i thought i got away without nobody noticing it before i correct it.

>>25037128
so like this eiki here.

looking at its movesets it gets a bunch of status stuff, and final gambit, and sleeptalk
and its abilities are either Pressure, something to warn you of barrier penetrating skills, something that weakens the opponent when hit, and wonderskin.

Seems like a great wall to me.

But its appearance suggests nothing of the sort.
And its dex entry just say it serves up justice by lecturing people.
which would be a hint towards its abilities, except they're named like Exalted charms, so those don't really tell you much about what they do either, unless you're looking at a big list and looking them all up one at a time.

What does Iron Barbs do? Things that barbs do. Stab things.
What does Klutz do? Make you uncoordinated, so you can't use items.
What does preaching a sermon do? ????
Put them to sleep? I dunno.
What does Wonder Guard do? Guard you in a wonderful way. What does Frail Health do? I dunno, I'd think something like Weak Armor or maybe even Zen Mode, but nope. Its wonder guard.

It's completely non-intuitive.

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>>25037225

>>25037225
I mean, I bet that sounds even weirder in use.

"Akyuu's Frail Health protected it from the attack"
Wut?

>>25037225
Really though why not just go play pokemon

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>>25037225
For fuck sake, anon.
This game is not for you, go back to pokemon and never return.

>>25037208
sure. waterpuppet gets some water-y stuff to it.

Cirno has at least some going for it there, what with the ice wings and coloration.


Fire puppet gets some fire-y stuff to it. It doesn't have to be the sprite, maybe in the animations. Have it do some little firebending while its standing there.

It's basic game design. Give the player hints.

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>>25037225
>>25037283
Really sounds like this game isnt for you.

>>25037257
>>25037266
Because mechanically, this game seems a good bit more sound, and from what I can tell so far, better story.

Its just got a lot worse labelling of everything.

I want to play this game. It just seems like its going out of its way to make everything esoteric and impenetrable to outsiders/newcomers.

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Gaaaahhh! Hemo has infected me and now i am obsessed with Hecatia too!

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>>25037295
You gotta explore new games to learn how they work anon. It kinda sounds like you wanna know what everything is and how it works from the go.

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>>25037295
You are literally the first one with these "complains", by your logic all the 2hus should have the color of the type they are, which is stupid cuz with the local evolution they get new types or completely change them.

>>25037295
It was a game made for fans of Touhou, i'm not going to jump into a fan game of some other series without knowing any of the material and expect it to pander to me.

>>25037305
Right. Which a well-designed game does fairly well. When you play megaman, you don't have to stop and ponder about what stepping on the spiked floor will do. The fact that they made the dangerous area have a sprite consisting of sharp objects explains it for you without ever having to say a word,
When you see a mettaur and it ducks into its shell, you don't have to shoot it a bunch to realize, hey this is an enemy that shields itself.

Good design gives clues. You want your player to understand the basics of the world you have created, the rules on which it operates, and how they can interact with it all within a couple seconds through observation and extrapolation based on common sense.

If Patchouli has a dex entry that says she is a master of using nearly every element, I expect that to be something reflected in her abilities. If Hina's says it can amass curses, then I it sets up an expectation for such.

I'm not expecting the game "pander" I expect it to teach me to play the game, as any game should, especially if its not a sequel. All players are new players until you teach them how to play.

>>25037308
resorting to strawman now? really?

Okay, here's a question.

Chiyuri is electric/water.

Looking at hr touhou wiki entry page, I see nothing about either of those two elements in her character bio.

So, without any information from TPDP's wiki, which shouldn't be a necessary resource, when you encounter one in the wild or with a trainer, how do you know what it is? How do you know which types to use against it?

Pre-existing information of the franchise helps none. The game helps none. You're stuck completely guessing. Which in a game about strategy and outthinking your opponent, is the exact opposite mindspace you want to put your players in.

>>25037378

Well, just so you know, once you get to form changes, when a puppet comes out, it will clue you in to its main typing. Let's say I send out SakuyaP. A bunch of swords come out at her entrance, so you can at least tell she's Steel type. Also, those crystal things you throw at the start of battle signals to their main type without needing to know forms. That said, wild puppets won't give any clues.

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>>25037308
okay, look, here's an example.

On the touhou wiki, it has Rin surrounded by ghostly flames. (see pic) Bio has multiple mentions of hellfire.

her THPDP sprite? just a red-haired catgirl with pigtails.
Dex entry? Collects the bodies of small animals and speaks to the dead.

One clearly points out fire-affiliation. One seems to try to cause a false impression of Nether.

Sanae wiki entry? Wind priestess and bringer of storms. Picture is holding a gohei flapping in the breeze.
Sprite? If you told me a schoolgirl in a long skirt I probably would have believed you til I noticed the sleeves. No breeze. No hints of rain or clouds. Nothing.
Dex entry? "Has the ability to cause miracles. Has a diligent personality, but is also rather inflexible. Likes snakes and frogs."

Completely irrelevant!

They're practically having to design out hints the mainline games included just to make it so opaque. Why? Is it a "normies get out" tactic of some sort?

>>25038030
Why would you play this game if you haven't played any of the actual Touhou games?

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>>25038157
Maybe he just wants a change of pace from regular Pokemon.

Remember, I arrived here with plans to build a hyperoptimal team to curbstomp everyone in multiplayer and picked my starter by just scrolling to the bottom and assuming that it would be overpowered in some way.

Look where I am now.

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Where can I buy Hecatia's shirt/blouse?

>>25038205
>>Look where I am now.
I'm new here. Where are you at now?

>>25038157
I'm pretty sure plenty of people played this game without 2hu knowledge and had no problems. This is just some advanced shitposting.
>>25038205
You make it sound like it was love at first sight.
How the hell did Raiko manage to become your waifu? Not that I complain. She needs more love.

>>25038205

If people think the way you do, they're all gonna go for Hecatia. That sneaky bastard.

>>25038279
He gained a waifu and became one of the more knowledgeable anons here when it comes to a puppet's usefulness

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>Having a unpopular 2hu from the arguably worst and most unpopular game as your waifu
How do you live with such knowledge?

>I-I don't care if she's unpopular what matters is my love for her!
Bullshit. Popularity is a good thing no matter how you try to spin it. Popularity breeds images, doujinshi, videos and more. More things about your waifu to enjoy.

So the new rankings are out, EHina went up even more. Is she really that good? 14% usage good? Speaking of that, I'm surprised EKanako is consistently staying around the 40 area. I'm still not entirely seeing why.

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>>25038338
Who are you quoting?

>>25038157
see
>>25037295

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>>25038338
>his waifu isn't a main character

Which starter(s) are the rarest/most lategame to find?

Can someone explain me that anon's complain? Basically he wants the 2hus to be color based so he can tell their types?

>>25038777
He wants it to be more obvious what types a 2hu is.

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>>25038338
>M-my waifu is superior because she's used goods!
>It's okay if I have to share her with 2000 other anons!

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>>25038754
In terms of late game
Shinki from Makai
Sariel from the Hakurei Cave.
Yukari from Muenzuka or Yakumo Household

In terms of encounter rate <5%
Flandre from Scarlet Devil Mansion
Suwako from Moriya Shrine
Yorihime & Toyohime from the Bamboo Forest Secret Area
Sukuna from Route 1
Yumemi from Route 2
Nue from Route 3
Mugetsu & Gengetsu from Route 8

There are some others but just pick your favorite

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>>25038344
What the hell, now I'm just confused. I would think usage would drop with AyaP skyrocketting in usage, not go up even more. Are spinning waifus just that popular?

Not surprised to see DoremyD in 5th though, 140/125/85 bulk is absolutely disgusting (physically she's about on par with Giratina-A!) and her only 3 weaknesses are Fire (not very common anymore), Steel (welp), and Nether. Shame about the horrid offenses.

>>25039048
In the base game, Raiko is also ridiculously late (Route 7, which isn't available until very shortly before you go into the endgame stuff)

>>25030656
Why can't we have Pokemon!Steel or at least something like it?

>>25039742
>>25039745
>>25039750
>>25039757
>>25039765
>>25039770
You piece of shit, stop wasting posts!

>>25038286
I only ever brought up valid game design flaws. If gen V had done the same thing with its entire roster, make everything the same bipedal animal-design with no visual cues and more or less arbitrary names, I'd still be pointing out how confusing that is to new players, and how fundamental a fix it should have been.

>>25030656
any word on how Warped type affects the chart?


>>25034407
>>25034411
>>25034416
>>25034416
>>25034421
are you serious? its in OP. unless you're talking about the expansion, in which case, you're gonna have to wait for Touhou gold and silver to be released in america.

>>25036193
for starter's see
>>25030656


>>25026735
>>25025301
This road leads to the existence of Puppetderp.

>>25039742
>>25039745
>>25039750
>>25039757
>>25039762
>>25039765
>>25039770
reported.

if they're going to keep accusing me of shitposting, we certainly don't need a real one in here as well.

If nothing else they might get us confused.

>>25039817

>This road leads to the existence of Puppetderp

I've actually been looking for things I can do this with. I'm corrupted. Speed Luna and Extra Sanae are staples of mine. If only you could stance change at level 2 or 1, I'd be even deeper down the hole.

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>>25039817
Warped type is kind of confusing because it doesn't even pretend to make sense in regards to type match-ups, but thankfully it's not that difficult to memorize what it does. It's immune to Wind (notably, that means spinblocking!), resists Steel and itself, and is weak to Poison, Fighting, and Sound. Offensively, it's SE against Steel, Wind, and Illusion and is resisted by Dark, Poison, itself and Fighting.

There's also two other changes in the chart outside of Warped now being a thing; in the base game, Nether was resisted only by light (thus making it similar to pre-Gen 6 Dragon), but the expansion made it so it was also resisted by Sound. That's still fewer things that resist it than any other type in the game, but does mean that defensively you can check it without using a single specific type. To compensate for this, Sound is now weak to Electric (which otherwise would be kind of ruined by Warped types being a thing).

>>25030422
>Smogon hates stall

Since when?

>>25040520
always.

Why is stall so hated in general

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>>25040896
>not liking to play against stall because you can just crack open most walls with the tiniest 2hu

Well guys, I've never played this before, a romhack of it before, nor do I know literally ANYTHING about Touhou. Wish me luck, I'm going in dry.

>>25040990
Good luck. When asked who your favorite is, just pick the one with the cutest sprite.

>waste posts got deleted
Base mods

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Was planning on battling today, but I've decided to just translate these two abilities and fuck off for now.

用量厳守
("Strict Dosage")
毒属性のスキルを無効化し HPが回復する
("Poison-type damage restores HP.")

闇夜之型
("Dark Night Style")
自分が使う無属性のスキルが 闇属性になり 威力が1.3倍になる。
("Void-type skills are treated as Dark-type skills and its power is boosted by 30%.")

>>25041387
well, not all of them

>>25034407
>>25034411
>>25034416
>>25034421
are still here. (I didn't report these, mostly because they were technically on topic, just posted poorly)

but yeah. I reported the others as stated here. (>>25039838) They violated GLs 6 and 10. As such, the mods deleted them upon being made aware of them, and likely issued a warning or 24hr ban.
That's how mods are supposed to work. We just forget about it a lot because /vp/ borders being a lawless shithole like /trash/ sometimes.
But yeah, when they do their jobs, its nice and refreshing, and we're a good place to live. Now if they'd only crack down on pokephilia threads like they're supposed to as well, ship them off to /trash/ or maybe /aco/ or /h/ since they're somewhat sentient creatures, not just animals, so maybe it would be counted as xeno. Either way, they're not blue board.
Though on a side note, I think I might have broken GL7 by telling him I was reporting him. and might be breaking 8 since I mentioned shortcomings in /vp/s moderation.

posting about the nature of 4chan is almost as technically bannable as submitting intentionally low-quality and disruptive content.

>>25041445
>caliginate
neat.

So I finally got to postgame, did the sidequest, and got the rainbow stone thing.

Now how the fuck does Reincarnation work

>>25041855
you kill yourself and hope the english patch is out in your next life

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>>25041855
Put the puppet you want to reincarnate in the first slot, then the two you want to pass the IVs from in the second two. Pick which mark you want and the rainbow stone. Spend one magical fragment.

Done. No waiting for eggs or hatching said eggs, you just get your results immediately and can try again immediately. It'll take a good chunk of time to get your first all-S rank unless you get lucky, but once you do getting good puppets becomes a complete joke.

When I next play Pokemon again, it's going to be a nightmare going back to regular breeding because of how much better this is.

What language do I need to set in app locale to get this running. Japanese obviously, but, mine doesn't have a Japanese option, only Hiragana, Kanji, and Katakana as options, no over lapping option to include all of the above.

Actually do I need this for the English translated base or just the expansion?

>>25041861
what if you become an alien or something and they have no touhou

>>25041861
Why so agressive, anon?

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Hemo posted new art.

So is there gonna be a new pastebin? The one in the OP says its been removed.

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Is the metagame still just "run your favorites" post-expansion?

This has to be the most slow touhoumon thread since we escaped from /v/, I blame OP for not using a cute pic!

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>>25044231
>The one in the OP says its been removed.
You fucking scared me for a moment.
The one in the OP is just missing a "y."
Here's the link: http://pastebin.com/NyBVqHVy

>>25044682
Depends, is Hecatia your favorite?

>>25045201
Hecatia is only in 11th place in the usage charts now.

The real monster to be scared of is Hina

>>25045310
AyaP keeps rising in the charts though, sooner or later HinaE will topple

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>>25045310

>>25045431
You fool, I run AyaP on all my teams!

>>25041917
especially because you can use your bros from the very beginning, and never have to replace them for something better. you can just make them themselves better.

between that and the better balance, this game is like a karenfags dream.

>tfw no english patch

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>>25045593
Have faith anon. The translators will deliver someday.

>>25045593
>>25020832
>>25026434
>>25026446
>>25027755
>>25028405
>>25034407
>>25034411
>>25034416
>>25034421
>>25045593

will you just quit it already?

the meme is old. its been old. either appreciate what we already have or suffer in silence.

but chronic samefagging will not bring it any faster.

>>25037208
He's absolutely right though. Often times types associated with certain puppets are obtuse, to put it lightly. There's very little indication in the puppet designs as to what type it is.
Redesigns are not the answer, though, given the nature of these games. Rather, it may ne best to simply list the puppet's types some where on screen, as conveying typing through puppet design is impossible in a game like this.

>>25045706
Might as well get someone else to play the game for you, if you're unwilling to learn.

>>25045706
I dunno. I rather like his idea of like, some trace of their element being visible in their design, sort of like what he mentioned here, with the flaming orbs and windiness.
>>25038030


Its not wholesale redesign. They're still made to look like their respective touhous. But they still have little hints in their animations and stuff.

>>25045724
I'm simply stating how they could improve a flaw in the game design, nothing more.

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>>25045467
She's meant to murder spread attackers.

64+ SpA Straw Doll FutoS Hydro Pump vs. 64 HP / 64+ SpD HinaE: 307-361 (75.9 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's with a boosting mark for SpA, Straw Dolls, and hitting a weakness. And running a non-speed-boosting mark on FutoS is something I personally wouldn't do (letting stuff like AyaP and JunkoS outspeed you is not a good idea).

Meanwhile...

-1 0 Atk HinaE Venom Nova vs. 0 HP / 0 Def FutoS: 236-278 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Beware the Spin.

>>25045737
Nah, fuck off with that shit. This is a Touhou fangame, drifting away from the original designs in such a way would be dumb.
And aside from that, there's already an effect that plays when a puppet is summoned, depending on its primary typing. If Hemo simply found a good way of stacking entry visual effects to covey both types rather than 1, that would also help.

>>25045759
its not drifting away from the original designs though.

as he said, the original designs had things like floating ghost-fire balls in it.

>>25045706
Fuck off already, this game is not for you

>>25045738
Flaw? The idea is that they look like the 2hus.

>>25045791
Some of them do.
The problem is when you get to characters like, say, Marisa, where you can't really express that she's an electric type (or dark) without coming up with some weird design that she shouldn't really have. Having sparks of electricity flying around Marisa would be weird at best. off topic here, but I think electric type was a mistake. Should have combined it with light, as very few 2hus actually use electricity in canon. Even sound makes more sense as a type, from a Touhou PoV.

>>25045802
>You're not allowed to criticize games that you play!

>>25045808
Yes, and that's why I don't think dicking with the puppet design is the answer. However, it's dumb to also ignore the innate weaknesses of such a design choice, especially when there are easy ways to work around it, such as better entry animations or simply showing uas typings.

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>>25045699
>chronic samefagging

>>25045847
well. reading her wii entry here, it says she specializes in light and heat magic.
so she probably shouldn't have been electric in the first place, unless its one of her forms, in which case I still maintain that forms having no graphical distinction is a bad idea.

>>25045880
You actually bring up another good point, in that even when you know everything about Touhou, some of the typings still make little sense, or require some odd thinking to actually work.

>>25045880
>>25045847
>ITT: People who don't pay attention to the puppets when they're sent out

>>25045891
it tells primary typing, for form changes only.

that's not a solution, that's a bandaid on an amputation.

>>25045891
See >>25045759
>If Hemo simply found a good way of stacking entry visual effects to covey both types rather than 1, that would also help.

Those anon's are lazy, most of the players just memorize all the types the 2hus have (yeah, that includes the styles).

>>25045980
I just look at a guide to see their typing.

>>25045988
This.

>>25044938
We had countless threads full of theorycrafting. What did you expect? Until expansion is translated there is nothing else to discuss.

>>25047246
We could always discuss the metagame and potential bans

>>25048237
Ban AyaP, JunkoS, HecatiaE, HinaE, and Sagume...fuck it ban all the Sagumes.

Metagame fixed.

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>>25048476
>>25048483

>>25048495
What it was?

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>>25048436
>Bans

Alright I'm late but here we go. Top 30, make that Top 33. I've decided to extend the list to encompass everything that would be considered 'OU' for the week:

1. HinaE
2. JunkoS
3. AyaP
4. SakuyaP
5. DoremyD
6. SagumeD
7. SagumeE
8. MomijiE
9. ShizuhaE
10. LilyE
11. YumekoE
12. HecatiaE
13. AyaE
14. SanaeS
15. RemiliaE
16. SuikaE
17. ReimuE
18. SuwakoE
19. SatoriE
20. ClownpieceS
21. YuyukoE
22. JunkoE
23. SagumeP
24. TenshiP
25. LouiseE
26. MamizouP
27. ShinikiE
28. YoumuE
29. SeigaE
30. YumemiP
31. MokouE
32. MedicineE
33. MystiaE

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>>25049618
>HinaE is always in first place
Raikoanon! are you watching?
Why this happens?

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>>25049618
>Junko is in second place.

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Why is junko light warped not fire warped?

>>25049618
This metagame isn't settling down at all, is it? The top 30 is still totally dominated by Extra styles and newhus. Out of the top 33, only 6 on the list existed before the expansion.

It is better than a week or two ago where AyaP and SanaeS were the only two holdouts or something, but I don't feel comfortable drawing conclusions from this at all.

>>25050010
She purified herself from the "heat" part.

>>25050064
I mean, its settled down, it just settled with only new stuff on top because powercreep.

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>>25048237
>>25048436
Nah, those aren't the problem. Here's how you fix the metagame.

Ban the concept of bans, because the metagame is "use your waifu", and banning someone's waifu will ruin that.

>>25050093
>>25050064
I don't really see it settling down yet; things are still shifting around a lot and people keep experimenting. Give it another month or two I'd say.

>>25050369
How would banning bans do anything to the metagame

>>25050369

Here's how you fix the metagame. Make my favorite overpowered. In all 3 forms.

>>25050064

Is SanaeS really a holdout though? She was pretty rare before the expansion.

>>25050958
cry to the mods about it, you fucking faggot

>>25050010
Because that's not fire, and she uses light/lasers in many of her attacks in LoLK.

>>25051008
Yeah you got that right senpai, you hate girls ==> you're a faggot.

If you could ban one thing, what would it be

>>25051152
Bans.

>>25051152
Haters.

>>25051152

My favorite not being the strongest.

>>25051152
your waifu

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>>25051152
>bans

>>25051175
>not running your favorite even if she isn't the strongest
>>25051177
>banning anything outside of bans

>>25051398

I run her even though she's not very strong. I just want her to be the strongest because anything less is an insult and I'll get those damn devs for it.

>>25051152
Touhou elitists

>>25051152
Competitiveness. The whole point of the game is to have your favorite 2hus beat up someone else's favorite 2hus, not being Smogon: Touhou Edition.

>>25051485
Name one thing wrong with being Smogon.

>>25051503
Bans.
But at least they also hate stalling.

So do the dex entries actually mean anything? Like Youmu's says something about protecting Yuyuko dolls but is that actually a gameplay thing?

>>25050919
she got some pretty significant buffs in the expansion

>>25051590
nah it's just flavor text. Otherwise Yuyuko would be broken.

>>25051604

I know she got buffs. I'm just saying that it's not fair to count her as one when the only reason she's used is because she got buffed hardcore.

>>25051590
They're just references to Touhou lore.

>>25051562
>Smogon
>hating stall

>bump limit
This thread lasted a fucking week.

>>25051755
That's because the OP didn't use a cute picture in the OP.

Metagame discussion is nowhere near as interesting as cute.

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New thread where?

>>25051774
never

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>>25051781

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>>25051774
When it's about to fall off the bottom completely.

>>25051692
It turns out a style of gameplay that literally involves stalling for time until you can make the other team die from passive damage is incredibly boring to play against.

>>25051799
>wedding outfit

Ok Raikoanon, you're going too far

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>>25051842
That's a feature in the expansion.

You can literally dress your waifu up in a wedding dress.

Anyone have a good gameplay image for next thread?

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>>25053345
How's this?

I got next thread covered. Should I make it now or wait?

>>25053365
how terrifying

>>25051028
from the wiki:
>Her name meaning "pure fox" fits with the seven tail-like FLAMES behind her and her ability to purify anything.

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>>25051871
let the cringe train roll on!

>>25053726
>cringe
>>>/v/

>>25054010
New thread.

I couldn't resist