>>22384225 No, Cyrus wanted to create a new universe where everyone would be stripped of emotion/spirit. Still really shitty, but not the same thing as wanting to kill everyone.
Archie is by far the least evil of the lot, followed closely by Maxie. The rest are varying degrees of evil, with Ghetsis coming out on top due to the fact he didn't really have any good intentions. Gio is pretty bad too. Cyrus is difficult to rank because even though what he was doing was arguably the worst, he's also probably the most mentally fucked up and he did genuinely believe what he was doing was for the best.
>>22384344 He more or less hated everyone. He thought they were all stupid and ignorant pigs who did nothing but kill each other and waste resources. Team Flare only got into his good books, because they funded him.
>>22384370 >looking up lysandre the other day on Bulbapedo >see this in the trivia section
The background story of Lysandre told by an NPC in Snowbelle City is similar to the manga Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, where a king, who wants to save humanity and wanting peace for his peasants, eventually realizes their stupidity and grows to hate them, eventually becoming a tyrant.
>>22384246 >The only one who was truly evil was Ghetsis, I think. The rest just suffered from various forms of psychosis. As someone who has just started playing x and y for the first time, I can say you where not paying attention at all.
Every bit of dialogue I've seen come out of him makes me think I'm watching the nazi scenes in the sound of music.
I don't think any of them are truly 'evil'. Selfish, maybe, but even Ghetsis was grooming his son to be a king, and if he genuinely was a nutter butter, that's not really 'evil', just- him being crazy and needing some meds.
I honestly felt the same way about Lysandre. That he needed some serious mental help. The dude is so invested in his 'cause' that he literally breaks down crying at one point.
Giovanni could actually be considered 'evil', but only because he's promoting criminal activity and all around selfishness. That stuff about the Slowpoke tails freaked me out the first time I read it.
>>22384484 >I don't think any of them are truly 'evil'. Selfish, maybe, but even Ghetsis was grooming his son to be a king, and if he genuinely was a nutter butter, that's not really 'evil', just- him being crazy and needing some meds.
I don't think so, Ghetsis didn't care about any of that it was only a scheme to get Reshiram/Zekrom. Members of team Plasma didn't know his real goal, and it was assumed he'd do away with N afterwards. Also its his adopted son.
>>22384196 Giovanni: World dominance is evil yes. Archie/Maxie: They're not evil at all, especially in the end of ORAS. Just fools. Cyrus: Same as giovanni on a god level. Ghetsis: Same as giovanni. Colress: He just wants to make experiments? Like Xerosic, not really evil. BW2 Ghetsis: Still the same, but now even willing to actually kill the player. The most evil. Lysandre: Evil but with an idiology behind it.
Ghetsis and Lysandre seem like the only truly evil ones. Their goals are based on power and selfishness, and they're the only ones who actually try to kill the player.
Giovanni, Maxie and Colress are just morally questionable. Giovanni's a mafia boss, Maxie's a wannabe dictator, and Colress just got involved with the wrong people for science. But they're all redeemable.
Archie isn't a villain, his goals are just misguided. He actually believes that what he's doing is good for humanity, but he stops immediately once he realizes what he's actually doing. (Maxie's kind of the same, but the structure of Team Magma combined with his goals of elevating humanity are a little more morally questionable)
>>22384453 You misinterpreted what he said. The world would be for himself in the sense that only he would rule over it - he made it seem like everyone on Galactic would be gods or something, when he really intended for only himself to be a God. Other people would still be in his new world, he specifically mentions the PC and Cynthia being there.
so i found this trivia about Lysandre: "His journal reveals that he's always hated people, even when he was being charitable to them, considering them all parasites who are sucking the world's beauty away. But because of his good deeds, the people he's benefited view him as a good man." >his journal what? i haven't' found that, someone can confirm it?
>>22384196 Giovanni is basically leader of the pokemon mafia, so evil. The fact that he had some sympathetic moments doesn't mean he wasn't. Maxie and Archie are just somewhat stupid, but well-intentioned. Cyrus is autistic as fuck. Not sure how that qualifies on the evil/good scale, he probably thought he was above morality. Ghetsis was evil. No question about it. I haven't played any further games.
>>22384196 Ghetsis; his goal was pretty solid from the beginning (never have second thoughts) and he planned it out way long ago. Not to mention what he did with N. He had full knowledge of what he was going to do and was absolutely determined to do it for his own selfish reasons, unlike all of the other people.
Giovanni did it just for money, which doesn't seem evil. He just did some bad things. Archie and Maxie had good intentions behind it and recognized the error of their ways. Lysandre wanted to do it for subjectively good reasons, just bad method.
Colress wasn't a villain, but is one of the only true neutral characters in the games. He could have been a villain, though.
>>22384862 >all the MCs in the area were turned into rock and only lasted some weeks against >only one MC got affected, the other one was safe but saw the whole thing and couldn't save him (thing in the mental trauma) and will last TWO YEARS nope, Gethsis is more evil than Sird.
>>22384933 I see it sort of like Colress, when he does it just for science, Gio does it just for money. I guess you could say he does bad things, but there is no intent to actually go after something just to harm other people and gain total control as well, which is what I consider evil. He goes after things with the intent of money.
>>22385012 >there is no intent to actually go after something just to harm other people and gain total control as well His entire goal was, literally, to gain total control of the world through the use of Pokemon.
oh shit, i found it! the journal, turn out i missed this room! anyway, there goes "when i was young, i went on a journey around Kalos with my pokemon, i reached out to help those suffering because they had nothing. At first they were grateful, but eventually they began to take my help for granted and demand more and more... will fools like those people consume the kalos region? this world is stable and secure. so the population of people and pokemon continue to increase unabated. but there is a limit to the amount of money and energy the world is capable of producing. Either everything is lost, or only a handful are saved. this is something best not left to man... i must use a tool of higher power"
Colress is the most terrifying type of evil. He's the sort who will pursue his research at any cost, without regard for anything around him. He's the type of guy who would invent weapons of mass destruction just for the sake of inventing them, then casually hand them over to the first person who asks for them once he's done.
Giovanni was uh....something about money? Maxie/Archie just wanted environmental stuff Cyrus wanted to create a new universe in his own image Ghetsis was litterally insane Colress wanted to see the extent of pokemon Lysandre was all about fashion and shit BUT THEN SUDDENLY GENOCIDE
>>22385012 Jesus fuck, every time the same insane philosophy.
You don't need to want control or to kill a bunch of people to be evil, just to do bad things with selfish interests. In fact, someone who targeted a specific people or something because he's convinced THEY are the evil ones would probably score lower on the evil scale simply because, in his mind, he's doing bad things for the greater good (even though he's the one who's doing evil).
Giovanni just says "fuck morals, I want dosh" and proceeds to kidnap, steal, extort, close entire cities, etc. just for personal benefit.
The whole excuse of "he did it to improve himself in some way so it's not really evil" is fucking insane and for some reason everyone on 4chan seems to think it's valid.
>>22385086 Giovanni wanted control of pokemon so he could get money through the Team Rocket, then with money and pokemon... well, control the world, essentially. Also, there was some subplot that never got really explored in the games about the gen 2 rival being his son, just some hints to it.
>>22385073 Once you actually meet these evil people IRL who get over on people for selfish reasons, then you will truly learn what it feels like to be disgusted. I'd argue drug addicts are both evil because they constantly use underhanded methods for themselves, become part of a human disease, and in extreme cases kill for their addiction. But at the same time, they could be literally insane with no more human side to them whatsoever. Almost animalistic actually.
Humanity's corruptness even hits you harder when it's your own family members who are the worthless people.
It depends on your definition of evil. IS someone evil because they want to achieve their goal? Are they evil because they take actions to harm others in the process of reaching their goals?
I don't find him evil. He's just a mafia criminal who wants to gain a profit. His actions are wrongs. But he never goes to the extreme of killing someone for the sake of his cause. You can look at Giovanni's greed as evil tho, but I don't believe Giovanni was evil. Perhaps if he would have completely gone to the extreme for his greed yes, but resigns after the protagonist. Belief not ok, actions not ok, intension not ok.
Play ORAS, they want to create good, but do it in a manner that would have ended their world. Their cause is not evil, nor are their actions. Intentions ok, actions stupid.
Wants to destroy the world and create it anew under his image. He would have achieved it if it weren't for the protagonist. His actions are evil because they would harm the whole world. His goal is engulfed by arrogance and wrath, anger towards society. Intentions evil, belief neutral not ok.
It's up to your perspective. I see Ghetsis as an ordinary politician who tried to pass his agenda. His actions in BW are wrong, but he loses it after the protagonist beats him. He loses himself and only wants to succeed in his plan. In BW2 he's evil. He goes to the extreme to complete his plan, even attempting to kill the protagonist. His beliefs and ideals have corrupted him. Original beliefs ok, intentions not ok. BW2 beliefs evil, intentions evil.
Neutral. Is not really evil, but will use any resources to achieve his goal. Beliefs ok, intentions not ok.
Wants to destroy the world. Cyrus was a bit nutty, and wanted to create the world after him. But this fag wanted to destroy it and everyone in it. I could be wrong I did not really give a fuck about the plot in XY. His beliefs and actions are evil.
>>22384398 Considering he raised a kid since little, lying to him and keeping him secluded from the world to fulfill his goals and then get rid of him when he had accomplished his mission, I'm pretty sure that's enough to be considered Chaotic Evil.
Chaotic Evil is about having the freedom to be a jackass, "PILLAGE, BURN, RAPE", etc.
Ghetsis is Neutral Evil because he's an egomaniac who wanted to be the only Pokemon trainer and rule Unova. First he tried a Lawful plan by using N as a puppet king and getting everyone to release their Pokemon, then he ragequit and went Chaotic with the Kyurem freeze ray.
Giovanni was average evil. Just a really greedy cunt, we've got plenty of those anyway. He wouldn't shoot someone 'just because', but he'd do it if the money was right. Archie and Maxie were just really fucking dumb. Cyrus seemed literally autistic or something. Not evil, just really, really out-of-touch. Ghetsis was a fucking magnificent bastard and definitely the most evil of the lot. He WOULD shoot a guy 'just because'. Colress was just a scientist. In the end, he regretted everything and apologised and turned out to be a pretty cool dude. Lysandre was an anti-human nihilist with really misplaced ideas of what's good and what's bad.
>>22391349 Something to add to this is that Lysandre never smiles at all throughout the entirety of XY. The only thing we see outside of that is rage when he loses and the sadness when he mentions Pokemon.
Giovanni: More or less a businessman who sought to integrate Team Rocket's more illicit activities in with legit business (Rocket Game Corner, Gyms). More or less a Yakuza/Mafia boss then actually evil (Ignoring all the crap in the anime).
Archie/Maxie: Extreme goals that were brought out due to previous experiences (Highly hinted that Archie/Maxie were involved in a previous team or organization, and Archie apparently had some previous issues). Not evil per-se, but misguided.
Cyrus: Not quite evil, but he wanted to shape things to his own design and reboot the universe. Hinted that he used a cult mentality/brainwashing for the lower grunts. Probably the most threatening of the Team Leaders, but I am not sure I would call him "evil".
Ghetis: Used Team Plasma/N to his own means under the guise of liberating Pokemon, more or less wanted power. Could be called evil in his own ways. One of the few that came close to succeeding, but his goals were not the most malicious of the bunch.
Colress: A puppet for Ghetis. I don't think of him as malicious at all, just someone who wants to bring out the potential of Pokemon no matter the means. Even if that means using Team Plasma to further that.
Lysandre: More or less wanted Genocide of everything for the beauty of the world. One of the few team leaders that actively tried to kill you, and came very close to succeeding in his goal. He is charismatic, but malicious at the same time.
>>22395527 If you don't think someone who wants to restart the universe killing everyone in the process and using brainwashed grunts to do it isn't evil then what do you think is evil? I cannot think of anything that is eviler than your description of Cyrus. Ghetis was also evil. Lysandre is, however, pretty much flawless.
>>22400659 Can someone please explain what exactly Archie means when he talks about the world he wanted to create in ORAS? He could already hang out with his pokemon if he wanted to. What was he really after?
He likes water Pokemon, so more water = more room for him and his dudes and fewer cities clogging up the world. Yes it's dumb and he's dumb, but that's why he's my favourite villain. As others have said in this thread at least Maxie's goal makes some sense whereas Archie's is just nonsense.
>>22400691 >>22400739 That's not all it is. Archie likes all pokemon, not just water. Life originates in the sea, so by having more water, there is more place for new species to be born. Also, pokemon on the ground has to share their habitat with humans, while water is mostly only habited by pokemon, so water can also be seen as pokemon safe-zones.
>>22400659 Nah, in RSE he doesn't have much personality to speak of.
Are you really surprised that people are looking for art of an attractive muscular man in a revealing outfit?
>>22400691 Yeah, his motivations in AS are kinda confusing. I suppose he was just pissed off at humans for polluting the seas and destroying Pokemon's habitats, so he wanted to bring the world back to be beginnings? I don't know. The whole project AZOTH thing threw me for a loop.
>>22391418 Team Leader sees pokemon evolving and now Mega Evolving and wants to study it to try to evolve humans. Lore-wise, it could show us what humans were like in ancient time in the pokemon world (Like maybe humans have evolved and were something else before). Evil-wise, they steal pokemon that can mega evolve so they can study them and see if the same process could be applied to humans. Well-intentioned but bad methods, so of course at the end they can redeem themselves.
Giovanni and Ghetsis are the only ones I would definitely define as evil, in this case being defined as entirely self-serving.
Archie and Maxie are overly zealous and playing with things that they seriously lack understanding of, but it's clear they were working with some sort of greater good in mind. Cyrus and Lysandre are less clear cut. Although they both profess to do their deeds for an ultimately better world, they too also directly benefit from their plans succeeding.
Colress is debatably evil. How much was his motivation fueled by a genuine desire to advance science? How much by the rewards offered by Team Plasma for his services?
>>22395379 Gonna have to disagree with you on Ghetsis. All of the villains are ultimately pragmatists, who'll judge actions based upon whether or not they advance their goals. Because Ghetsis was often operating out in public, I doubt he'd kill someone for thrills. A bad reputation and a possible criminal record aren't what he needs.
That said, I'd love for there to be a antagonist without even those scruples, somebody who's authentically insane or an animalistic force of nature. The "villains" of said game could even be the authorities, who are taking extreme measures in order to neutralize the main threat.
>>22384196 >Giovanni Evilness 6/10. >+Straightup mafioso crime lord >+His team killed some Pokemon >-Pussies out and ressigned just like that >Rocket Executives Evilness 7/10. >+Black market schemes >+General exploitation of people and Pokemon >-To much masterbation over Giovanni loss >Archie and Maxie Evilness 5/10. >+Ecoterrorists >+Kidnappers and theives >-Mostlt tongue-in-cheek >Cyrus Evilness 9/10. >+Manipulates underlings for "Space Development" >+Forces the Lake Trio into painfully making the Red Chain >+Ripped apart the fucking DIMENSIOND OF TIME AND SPACE >+Wanted to kill everyone and everything >-Failed and was easily thrown away by Giratina >N Evilness 3/10. >+muh liberation >+Solid moment tho at the end of B/W; The battle to decide who is right and who is left. >-Genuin shit character design >-muh liberation >- Seriously this kid is a very very VERY shitty antagonist. But he is a good character though. >Ghetsis Evilness 10/10. >+Manipulates his first army of underlings and innocents for muh liberation >+Manipulates his own son by shunning him from public and brainwashing him with false truth/ideals for years >+Fucking backstabs everyone and wants to rule everything and enslave Unova >+Redesign is fucking based >+Commands an new army of truly evul thieves dressed like mercenaries with based soundtracks >+Fucking captures Kyreum for a long ass time instead of briefly yielding its power like Cyrus >+Freezes and entire city just because he wants some DNA splicers. Come on if that ice was real people would be dead. >+Actually tries to kill the player in a gruesome ways >+Rusemaster420noscopes N and gets Reshiram/Zekrom >+Criminally insane >+Huge ego complex >-Emotionally unstable >Lysandre >Evilness 8/10 >+Didn't his team murder some Pokemom to power the machine? Yeah. >+Actually tried to kill the player and his friends or some immortality shit >-Worst, WORST fucking goals and execution.
>>22400418 I'm kind of surprised how many people don't consider Giovanni evil because he was "doing it for the money". Or whatever. He was doing harm to others for ultimately self-serving means, and you can't really argue that he was even insane. The limited scale of his actions means he's less evil than Ghetsis, but only barely.
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