/parag/ - Paragon General

Gadget is surprisingly fun.

>>175714170
>enemy team gets orb
>they dont push
>enemy gets orb again
>we wipe them.and take towers
>enemy team takes orb a 3rd time
>wipe them and get the core to 2%
>make a mad dash to the core get killed
>rev makes a mad dash to the core
>enemy team tries to stop him
>rev ults narbash and runs to the core and wins us the game.
games like this is what it's all about.


b1081799eae8400a874214b3e0f8bbbb

>>175715594
I'll watch later

tfw the jungler doesn't gank offlane. Every single time...

>tfw you love Paragon artstyle, visuals, and characters, but you took a break for a week and played more balanced mobas for a while and now Paragon truly shows it's open betaness to you

Love this game, but I feel like I've been blind to its flaws or something. It's the only moba without a cartoony artsyle and it uses verticality in ways that Smite doesn't.

Do you think there will be a good balance between time to kill and survivability eventually?

>>175717081
I like that it's not an isometric moba.

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Do you think they'll release this as an Iggy skin?

What kind of hero would you guys like to see?

>>175720167
Iai slash focused, burst damage samurai or cooldown, kinetic focused Samurai.

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>>175717081
There was it was called Legacy, but EPIC felt games were too long (they were not much longer than current Monolith games) the bigger map meant less TDM even with Travel mode, the only real problem was getting ganked because of the speed of travel mode vs ping of ward

but we are never ever going back to those days

>>175720427
That sounds fun

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>enemy greystone takes orb with his ult

>>175721956
>Greystone doing Greystone things
kek

The matches in which my team is at fault for us losing is increasing. It usually isn't like this. Odd.

The fuck, my team has 4 wards around orb prime

>>175721338
kinda miss the strats involved with pushing lanes, being able to sneak their core with a fat stack o big minion boiz but now EBIN decided that TDM is how every game is going to be decided.

seriously i don't think EBIN knows what they even want.

I KNO U ARE READING THIS EBIN INTERN

Surely 0.40 will save us r-right

>>175723670
For some reason I feel as though this has increased with the release of revenant. Every time the enemy team has Rev and we have either sparrow or yin we wreck them hard.
From what I've been told Orb prime has been nerfed as well.

Maybe it's the combination of Revenant being weird to play, in combination with the orb prime nerf

I'm in gold elo and I thought people would be better than silver. I'm generalizing of course

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>Team decides its a good move to push right lane and get to the enemy core
>suddenly enemy Yin, Grux, and Rev get to ours
>Its a race against the fucking clock

Don't ever do this shit, make your ward cards last forever. Fuck, it is annoying to risk losing a game you were dominating the whole time.

Rip someone dodged queue. I almost had a Sevarog on my team. I really want to see him on my team for once.

>>175729080
Yes, Orb Prime was nerfed. I almost always lose if a Rev is on my team.
I'm in silver.
>Prime Buff
>Reduced health regeneration from 3% to 1.5% of max health.
>Reduced mana regeneration from 3% to 1.5% of max mana.
>Reduced aura minion health bonus from 50% to 25%.
>Reduced duration of Prime Buff from 150 to 120 seconds.
>Removed Deathtouch minions.

>>175729089
It is really hard for new people to play Sevarog. You need to jungle and get the stack mechanic right. You also need to build health and power. Late game you become an unstoppable killing machine, but early you're weak, almost anyone could kill you. Guys that are used to playing sev are a great addition to the team, and better than having a khaimera.

t. fag who's playing him since Legacy

>>175729389
Whenever I see a Khaimera on my team, they never gank. It's getting a bit frustrating to see junglers that don't help the team.

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>>175729342
Ah, fellow silverfag. It truly is a fucking nightmare for me. Nobody seems able to play, and since I'm soloq'ing I always get the full retard cocktail. Losing games because someone can't stop feeding or doing stupid shit sucks ass. It's like they're not trying at all.

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>>175729089
>Sevarog ult's an opponent into the air
>Morigesh ults
>Giant Morigesh stabs the enemy in the air, killing them
>Looks like a slam dunk
>Type "ALLEY OOP" into the chat
>Sevarog: "lol"

Probably the coolest shit I have ever seen/done in this game

>>175729342
Ah ok I didn't know the exact details. Holy shit these changes have made a fuck-ton of a difference in ending games

>>175729761
Silver is breddy funny

Gadget+Yin lane is hilarious

>>175729089
I play a full tank Sevarog, but only when I stack with friends because I can actually rely on them to follow up when I do shit.

>>175721338
>(they were not much longer than current Monolith games)
I miss Legacy, but this is blatantly wrong. Average match times for Monolith are a lot lower than they were during Legacy.

>>175731546
Not that anon but in silver my matches are 40-54 minutes each match since Rev was released.
>Rev ults me as Gadget
>Ult
>Q
>ded Rev

>>175729389
>>175729761
>>175730730
Message to all silverfags, you're in your elo because that's the elo you belong in. You can't make the argument that your teammates are shit because it's easy as piss to climb up to gold with shitty teammates.

True elo hell starts in platinum and gold is divided into two parts, 1399 and under is piss easy to climb from, but you're doing decent while 1400 and above is a bit harder to climb from and where players need to know what they're doing to be able to climb from here. Platinum to Diamond is true elo hell and when you finally get to Diamond, your reward is just twenty five minute queue times.

>>175731813
>lower skill players don't know when to shove lanes or take objectives
The same old story. It'll get a little better when you hit gold, and much better when you hit plat. Just keep on playing lad, you'll get there someday.

>>175731845
That's okay with me. I'm sort of new to mobas (and new to Paragon as of a week ago). I tried league years ago but didn't like it. I fuck up a lot but I try. It's one reason I quit playing Dekker. I miss her stun 40-50% of the time. I'd rather play a damage dealer anyway. Gadget seems much easier to fuck up less with.
>>175732307
Yeah, I've decided I'm going to try to play characters that can at least kill a minion wave. I'm playing for fun mostly and attempting to learn the game. It seems great so far.

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>>175732307
do people figure out how to safelane in plat? every goddamn time when i zone out the offlaner my carry pushes and feeds him xp like a retard so he can tickle the tower a bit
and people do the thing where they take the tower offlane then give the offlaner freefarm for the rest of the game

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I purposely didn't buy the weekly pack because Offensive Maneuvers didn't look that great. So I bought a pack and this is what I got. Th-Thanks ebin.

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>>175731845
>you're in your elo because that's the elo you belong in.
>it's easy as piss to climb up to gold with shitty teammates.
>1399 and under is piss easy to climb from

Wow you must had the most joyful experience anyone has ever had in paragon.
Thank god you've never had a 4 adc team, a khaimera who never fed, Revenants who know what they're doing, Grux's who didn't attack raptors alone while the enemy team was in the jungle, Sevarogs who actually farmed well, Sparrow's who actually ward, No safe lane Aurora's, Grim's who don't build kinetic etc.

>>175732645
Last three silver matches I've had, no one killed raptors at all. Why is safe lane Aurora such a huge thing at our level anyway? Everyone does it and feeds. I don't understand why.

>>175732719
People over estimating Ebin's claim that you can play any hero in multiple ways.
What Ebin neglected to advise was that you can play any hero any way you want, but you're risking not playing heroes who are optimal for certain roles.

I honestly don't know where the idea for support aurora came from at all. My only guess is that she's the only hero who actually "freezes" lanes and apparently that's great for safe lane

>>175732909
I think characters should be under categories at character select.

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>>175731845
>You can't say teammates are retarded.

Dude I've played a game with a teammate going offlane sevarog and dying 15 times in a row while typing "we loser now :v". I just want to get out of ssilver so I can play against and with better faggots

>>175732645
I've experienced the same kind of shit.

How can you fags imply this never happens? Or are you saying I need to win the game by myself?

>people unironically cant play this game
>the simplest moba on the market

>>175732909
Support aurora works pretty well if you have the active cards to back it up. Her mobility and root make harassing the offlaner nice, plus with a bit of power you can handle a lane by yourself much better than the "real" supports.

>>175733193
>Or are you saying I need to win the game by myself?
You don't have to every game but it's not like it's hard to carry a game solo in silver

>>175733020
I do like the claim that heroes can be played in multiple ways, because alot of the heroes have 2 lanes they can function in.

I'm tired of choosing offlane serath and being spammed "please select a different hero" because people are so goddamned used to seeing her in the jungle.

I do agree though that there should be a lane preference and/or category at the character select

>>175733394
I could see that working, but with from the experiences I've had, Safelane Aurora's were not patient enough to farm properly without dying constantly to build up to their usefullness. I guess I'm not opposed to it now, but I just would like it to be done well, man

>>175733413
She's a horrible offlaner and the fact that you think otherwise is indicative of silver/bottom gold status. Explain to me why you think she should be played in the offlane.

>>175733407
What role do you think is best to carry the whole team? I almost always win when playing Gadget mid or kwang jungle/off.

>>175734009
Carry obvs

>>175733624
Serath is extremely solid in the offlane, especially with assassin's ward early on. She has two abilities that can either help her engage an enemy trying to retreat into safelane as well as the options to use those same abilities to escape into safety.

The offlane description is literally "for heroes with durability and great mobility."
I'm having a hard time you even sincerely asked me that question about Serath.

>>175734113
Well, that was an absurdly retarded question, my bad

>>175734217
Give Yin a try

>Player accepts queue
>He is last pick in lobby
>After everyone picks, says "sum1 dodge"
>Why?
>"I don't want to play"
>uhh
>"I have 6 hour ban, please sum1 dodge"
>no one fucking dodges just play the game
>he afks and trolls the entire time, we lose
>says its all our faults for not dodging
>he is in my next queue and does the same shit
I am fucking plat 1700, when does this shit stop?

>>175734548
>I am fucking plat 1700
How the fuck did they get that far? Holy shit there's really no hope is there?

>>175734548
i see the report functionality is working wonders

>>175734548
Once you hit ~1730 you're in for an all new kind of hell.

>>175734752
I will put this bomb emoji next to his name in the scoreboard! That will fix it! Fucking kill me I hate this game.

>>175734678
He was ~1650. No excuses for you fuckers.

>>175732645
>>175733193
>justsilverthings
Just sounds like excuses to me, you can still carry a game even if a teammate is feeding their ass off and it just makes you work harder to get better. And let's say you're faced with impossible odds like 2 d/cs in the first ten minutes, then yeah, sure, you're fucked but you won't be getting that every game, just take the punch and keep going at it.
I faced the same thing when I was trying to get better and this was back in Legacy, things were harder to comprehend because it wasn't as simplified as it is now and I stayed silver for a while until I got good, rose through gold and hit a wall in high gold. After overcoming that, I rose through high gold into plat and stayed in plat for the longest time until I'm where I'm at now, just a few elo away from Master. I've played with people throughout all elos and it's just your skill level holding you back, not your teammates.

>>175734990
Not that anon but I definitely feel like my skill level is holding me back. But I'm also in a match where a jungler doesn't gank, again...

A fed Grux is scary

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>>175734548
>two 1760s on my team
>neither has over 50 minions at 25 minutes

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>>175734975
>25 minute queue times just to be trolled
I think I'll just stay down here then

>>175734990
>I've played with people throughout all elos and it's just your skill level holding you back, not your teammates.

>Your teammates will suck, but it's still your fault
I get what you're trying to say, but you're still grossly undersimplifying things

>>175736074
Please stop double spacing your posts

>>175736229

Why?

>>175736260
It's not needed and looks bad.

>>175736074
>undersimplifying
So you think it should be simplified even more?

>>175736369
>It's not needed and looks bad.

But it's so clear and easy to read.

>>175736430
Yes I think that it's fair to say that the majority of my matches more recently than ever have been full of people who don't know what they are doing, people who don't know lane/minion management, salty assholes who play worse because they don't get the hero that they want, trolls who blame the team because they don't want to farm and want to team fight 24/7 etc.

>>175736639
Ok I'm not sure how to make it more simple but I'll try
U R BAD
How's that?

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>>175736789

>>175736809
You asked for the post to be simplified more and I did so. How is that bait?

I've seen some really good players in silver held back by bad teammates
I was one of the bad ones

I think a big problem I've been seeing is that when one team groups up, another team will slowly trickle in and die.

I just realized I've been playing Kwang wrong this entire time.
If you have a Kwang deck, you guys NEED to build thunder cleaver, especially if you jungle with him.
>mega fast clears
>combines well with his passive
>extra burst
Oh baby, the burst potential once you get it fully built is incredible.
I was able to go toe to toe with a Crunch and knock him out of the ring with most of my health intact. I took a step back when he rocket'd to me, tether'd and he missed he uppercut, ult'd, light of the heavens, thunder cleaver, a couple basics, 75% of his health gone.
I thought it was gimmicky and it was a huge 8 point investment for a bit of attack speed and a gimmicky passive/active but it's definitely worth it, things are looking up from here boys.

>When the enemy loses on character select
Ahahaha. It always feels good to have the enemy team surrender. We bullied the fuck out of Iggy mid.

>>175738453
WTT divine shield for thunder cleaver

>>175738623
I have 6 of them friendo but I understand your pain, it was fun making decks out of noob scraps but sometimes I felt locked from playing a certain hero if I didn't have the right cards.

>>175738760
I feel that way right now. Although I've only been playing for 11 days.

>>175738828
They give cards out like hot pockets now so I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. If you're starting out you'll probably be in silver elo and most people don't have the right cards either, so you'll be fine.

There's the crafting system too, I remember if I wanted to have a certain card, the best I could do is get on my knees and pray to RNGesus that he'll bless me with the card from a card pack.

Hopefully, they fix this card system too, it turns off a lot of new players.

What the fuck. From a little around 5 minutes this entire 15 minute match has been teamfights mid and nothing else

>>175738453
>kwang
>constantly shits out lightning with thunder sound effects
>thunder cleaver is good on him

w-woah!

>want to smurf because people in diamond are worse than silver
>remember how rng cards are
>remember 12 day wait for sevarog
fucking
sigh

>>175739829
uwotm8

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>>175739646
At one point in time cards were character exclusive, there's, the pictures on the cards are sometimes scrapped ideas or old concept art.

look how adamant edge looks like kwang's sword for example

The character on silent indignation was an old Khaimera possibly bounty stalker too

>she succ me

>>175740062
L-Lewd

>>175738979
Yeah fuck it. Time to try new characters even if I don't have the cards for them.

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>>175718283
Would prefer this one to be honest

>>175742345
I want both.

>>175731546
In the early open beta yes, but by the end of Legacy the match length really was okay already

>>175734131
>with durability
That's the thing, Serath is made of paper mache and due to her melee range farming can be really hard for her on offlane, especially if you're against two enemy heroes. She can work offlane, but pretty much one wrong move and you're dead. She's much better for either jungle or safelane and there are much better picks for offlane than her.

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>>175734548
>I don't want to play
>Trolls instead of just afking
>Starts another match immediately afterwards
What is this autism?

>First time try jungling
>Can't jungle because entire team went 4 right lane and just roamed around
>try to defend towers but enemy team takes them all
>team defends as soon as possible while feeding
help

>>175743420
I meant team surrendered asap not sure why it put defends

>>175743480
Oh apparently they were "trolling" and that's why... R-Right... "Haha we troll shit jungler" Th-Thanks guys

>>175742769
It happens in silver too. "I maek epic meme"

hyped for day 12

Nice. Another Rev made our team lose. 1-14-9. Good job Rev. He fed Khaimera to the point that our team could barely 5v1 him.

Do you guys ever get people who feed then disconnect?

>>175747567
Happened a few times, not very often though. Why?

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>>175748201
Fucking Greystone players. They're either retarded or gods among men. He came back, farmed in the jungle until he was equal level (actually outleveling everyone else) and proceeded to fuck every single enemy he saw, winning us the game. What the fuck I love Greystone now.

>>175748876
Greystone's piss easy to use set neatly represent the character in action - they're like those brute retards who just can't comprehend that something cannot be done so they go and do it.

>>175749524
That makes too much sense.

Morigesh stacking shadow scrolls is disgusting

>That feel when I finally make a deck that has multiple tiers, and completely uses my allotted points
It's not even for a character I like. God dammit, this game is going to make me relapse on MtG...

>>175751728
Wew

>>175751280

I hate the build variety in this game right now. We need that card overhaul and soon.

Casters have the best options for build variety, honestly. Aside from Countess and Morigesh who usually use SS + NV.

At least with Gadget and Belica you can do stuff like Cast Converter, multiple shield items, support/damage hybrid or fully nuke.

>>175752678
I wonder what they'll do for the overhaul.

>>175748876

>That picture

I remember when that was the meta, Critstone VS Everyone.

Now I build a full tank Greystone who is nigh unkillable, but I get dodged when people ask if I have full crit/crit bonus/lifesteal Greystone.

Yeah you CAN build him that way, but you get more use from him with Thermobond/Toxigel and a lot of armor and health and just get right in the guts of the enemy team and keep swinging and eating ults while your team murders them. If they ignore you, they just get chipped down over and over.

But who am I kidding, in this meta, build variety is almost gimping yourself. Just land the first CC and your team wins unless they're stupid pussies who run away from guaranteed kills.

>>175752853
>stupid pussies who run away from guaranteed kills.
Sounds like silverdesu

Do upgrade cards get discarded when you discard the main card? I would assume they do, yeah?

>>175731546
I remember Legacy games being 50 minutes average: Monolith matches still reach and exceed that regularly.

>>175754561
Yep

>>175754572
I had a match over 60 minutes on Monolith the other day. Most of mine are 40-60 minutes long.

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>A knight has been reborn
>v.40 on 5/16 #ANewAge
Looks like we're gettin a Geystone rework or at least a new skin. And they seem to be planning something big for the v.40

>>175742665
>pretty much one wrong move and you're dead.
Ah right I forgot to cover that. Play her well or die. Which is also why lifesteal is so important on her. Crit and lifesteal is what make her so dangerous mid to late game.
But I've been majorly successful with it so my point is that if you make her work in the offlane, you can bully and sometimes take offlane tower faster than your carry can.
I think that offlane is one of her better roles

>>175754784
I thought 40 was supposed to have a new hero?

>>175754784
Zzzz it better be a rework/buff and not a skin. I'm sure it's a skin.
>>175754882
>Introducing Greystone's Father/Evil Twin/Uncle
>Exactly the same as Greystone but half the cooldowns and different hair

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>>175754784
This pic was on their twitter.

>>175755172
Well I wouldn't have anything against a new sci-fi knight hero especially an alien one. Hope it won't turn out to be just a Greystone skin/rework after all

>>175755172
That other pic we at least get what looks like an outline of a shield.
The only thing I would have been able to make out of this is an armor chest piece or robot.

>>175755291
I'm sure it's a Rogue Greystone or something along those lines.
>>175755320
Yeah it's strange. I have no idea where he got the other pic. Ebin intern maybe.

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Ah he got it from facebook. Also apparently it's a Greystone skin. Reee

>>175755528
>Super Ginger Greystone
kek
I've never given Grey a try but if I get this skin or play drunk then just maybe I'll try him for a match

Try not to die this time while I sleep.
Night /parag/

>>175758870
meh

>>175753074
And you sound like every feeder I've ever played with
>omg why you not attack
>I always attack you always fear omggggg
This after they dive headfirst into a fight they have no hope of winning.

>>175758870
Last one died because it hit bump limit.

So, since the v.40 is supposed to be big, do you think they actually will implement some big changes? Like turn the whole game balance around? Do you think they will actually fix it this time?

>>175765132
New map, slightly bigger than monolith.
But also full of holes in the geometry making it unplayable.

>>175765132
I'm pretty new so I don't know what they'd change the only thing that really sticks out to me as needing a rework is the card system.

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I am so, so sick of being put up against premades in solo queue.
It's never fucking fair, not even close.

>>175762074

Okay, but standing back as you watch 4/5 of your team go in on 4 of theirs while your Greystone eats all of their ults and still hasn't lost his is just dumb.

>>175766079

>Searching for Games
>See 4 or 5 players added all at once
>In draft lobby, ask if anyone is in a premade on our team
>'No, why?'

You know you're in for one devil of an assfucking.

>>175765132

On the Paragon FB page, someone remarked how the new teaser picture doesn't have the every three weeks hashtag so it is probably a Greystone skin or rework instead of a new character and the Paragon page commented back, 'You may be on to something. :)'

>>175767282
True, but a Revenant that runs straight at the enemy team expecting us to suicide with him is worse.
>starts insulting us in broken English
>tell them to group up with us
>more insults
>dies again and calls us shit
>point out he has twice as many deaths as anyone else on the team
>"loooooooooooooooooooool"
>"yessss omggggggggggggg"
>"u nubies suck"
Proper grouping is essential, but so is knowing when to let the YOLO retards on your team get what they deserve while you prepare to damage control their bad decision-making.

>>175767383
Yeah, I've done that too and it really sets the mood for the game ahead.

>>175767702
read the thread, dummy

>More skins for characters that already get a bunch of skins

I hope that the next Iggy/Grim skins we get are T5 or something more than stupid recolors.

If V.40 doesn't do something about the burst/cc only meta, I am done for a while. If TTK was a little longer, there could be more strategy and counterplay in team fights.

>>175768062
Grim got no fucking skin mate. Not even the crappy recolors.

>>175767558
I've found new success in the "Live and let die" philosophy.
4 heroes recovering lanes is better than 1 hero spamming good game while the enemy steam rolls down each lane

>When you have more fun making a deck then you do actually playing the game.

Mobas were a mistake, epic would probably make more money making a collectable card game.

>>175774284

>When you have more fun in other mobas despite liking the visuals of Paragon

If Paragon just stopped trying to fuck around with this stupid card system and put in a typical item shop, I would have more fun.

Also, TTK needs to be increased a bit.

>>175769315
This and he is one of the first characters added. Hell, even some of the very first characters have almost no skins

>>175754784
His t3 skin has been known for a while through data mine

Its a spaceknight with a laser Sword, looks like a fuccboi

>>175774431
how does the card system differ from the item system?

paragon is the only moba that's actually interested me.

>starting out
>all these cool cards that are key parts of decks
>can't make any of them

>>175774431
I like the cards/loadouts idea they just went a little wild with the actual deck building, the card crafting and the not explaining shit. The faq in the op is better than the tutorial.

>>175740062
In the past, I would relentlessly shit on waifu-fags...then countess entered my life...I understand now...I am sorry...
>>175779430
What's so hard to get?

So thunder cleaver. When is it worth it? An early scythe seems more cost effective than investing 5cp and thunder seems sorta useless in mid-late game tf meta. I don't think an extra auto is worth 3cp on anyone but maybe kallari to assist her burst. Is it just bad?

>>175782528
for me the only unsure things were stuff like discarding items meaning you can't re equip them (I'm retarded I know, I wasn't thinking in terms of card game rules) everything other than little stuff like that is just optimal play, which you should learn through playing the game any way.

>>175784213
Apparently it's pretty good with Kwang
>>175738453

Seems like maybe start with a scythe, then trade it in for the cleaver later, if you're in the jungle. If you're in a lane then the cleaver seems like the clearly better choice. Plus once upgraded you now have a nice aoe to toss out, amongst your other abilities.

>>175784646
That is why I am confused, I don't think it would be good on him. I will science it later today but his aoe clear with his rmb is already really strong. Scythe will crutch you till you can almost 1 hit a white with rmb+lmb. The burst seems minor at best as investing that 8 cp into power+ability pen would give you more damage for your abilities, the actual source for his burst. I just don't see how that shit would be good on him. That and tank kwang > damage kwang anyways so giving him one extra auto in a fight and extra marginal wave clear seems pretty trash desu.

>>175784457
Ah, yea the system really needs like an "apply changes" button, sucks for a misclick to ruin an entire build. I do miss how each hero had like 2-3 prebuilt decks for multiple roles. I don't try so many other characters because of the time it takes to make a whole 40 card deck

>>175785382
I thought the same thing but it works out pretty well, especially since you'll get pretty farmed up by late game using TC.
Also, tank Kwang < damage Kwang. Build him with some armor and health but put he needs more damage to actually be effective or his burst isn't going to do any damage. He isn't a much of a frontline because while he can take hits and peel for the carry, you're more effective diving the enemy's backline to try to take out the carry.

>>175785382
Well, I can't really speak for anything else, I don't have the card, and I've actually yet to even play Kwang. Just seems to me that it's a good card to get for attack speed, and gives you extra damage to clear waves in lane, or in the jungle. An extra, not dependent on your own attack animations, way to deal damage seems like it would be useful too. It really to me reads like a lane clearing tool. I can see it working well if you're able to get high crit with it too.

If you're not building for attack speed, or sticking to the jungle, however, I can see it being far less attractive.

Best bet is always to stick it into a deck and give it a try, of course.

There aren't any good initiators in this game since once someone tries to initiate they get deleted instantly. Even a Miniboss like Sev can get fucked if he gets focused.

There are no chars that can just jump in the middle of the enemy team and win the teamfight before it happens like every other moba. Well Aurora I guess.

>>175786178
I will give it a shot but I still don't think the returns on that large of a cp investment are going to be worth it.
On the point of tank vs damage kwang I entirely disagree. You should only build just enough damage to make yourself a threat to the back line and go hard tank from there. Kwang already has good base damages for his abilities and a fuckboat of utility in his kit. Being able to dive with your ult, disrupt, deal decent damage and walk out healthy is more important than trading for their carry. The longer you live the more LS you are giving and more tethers you are singling out.
Then again I usually play with 2-3 people so I can rely on others to do the damage I set up. Soloq results may vary.

>>175786730
Kwang, Sevarog, Greystone, Grux, Rampage, Steel, Riktor, Feng Mao, The Fey, Dekker are all decent to amazing initiators. You just need to initiate at the right time with your team able to respond to it. Aurora isn't even a decent initiator because of Purity, take out the support and possibly.

>>175778615
The card system differs from an item shop because with an item shop you have flexibility. Every item is immediately available to you, and you buy them situationally. If the enemy team made aggressive picks and keep bullying the fuck out of you, you've got the option of building defense & sustain so the harassment doesn't affect you that badly. You're winning lane and can afford to rotate to help a teammate win theirs? Buy an item with a slow on basics or dot and gank.

This doesn't work in Paragon at all largely due to upgrades & affinities.

>>175786730
You can't just leeroy into a team and expect to win the fight because "initiation" but there are a lot of characters that can heavily swing a team fight from the start. Kwang tethers, grux pull, steels dunk, dekker splitting the enemies, Riktor mlg strats, a good sev hammer etc. TTK is stupid fucking low atm but that works both ways, if you properly single out or split the enemy your "initiation" can net multiple kills before the fight even starts.

>>175787132
>>175787553
Idk about most of those...like you said ttk is too low rn so heroes like Kwang Grux and Steel whose ults are kinda designed around diving for your team kinda end up going in the opposite direction.

I'm thinking of a Tide or Axe blinking into a team fight and using their AOE. Or Tyr ulting in and then 1+2ing the squishy back to their team.

I cant even play the game. My PC can run it fine but it freezes during the tutorial so i cant even go online xd

>>175754876
>mid to late game
When you have proper farm, yes. Which you can't get if you're running her in the offlane because you will get bullied hard out of lane if you go for last hits.
>you can bully and sometimes take off lane tower faster than your carry can
So. You're playing as a character with wet noodles for armor. And you think you can harass the duo lane hard enough to take the tower
>take the offlane tower
Why the fuck would you ever want to do this fast?
>take offlane tower
>carry gets to free farm all game with no risk
Sure.
>I've been majorly successful
Just save us both the time and post elo

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>>175782528
/vg/ usually has threads devolve into the eventful waifu shit but I kinda hope we get some so /parag/ stays a float and we don't lose them like last thread

I'll welcome a few waifufags it's the eventual faith of all generals anyway

>>175791774
Since when did countess have a lip piercing. I never noticed it until recently. I don't recall seeing it in her reveal. I kind of dig it, but it's a bit trashy.

>>175790061
Typically you aren't diving a teamfight until you already know you have won it. The heroes I listed have somewhat safe options they can use to pull an enemy out of position for a free pick. After you have established an advantage you can then dive. I agree that tank isn't in a great spot atm but we have to make due with what we got. You aren't going to be able to play herc/tyr or tide style because it is just a different game. You can and will often secure a pick, initiate the 4v5 and die. Since you ate their cds though your team, godwilling, will be able to roll them over. That is burst meta. Someone has to take the burst. There are "safer" heroes that when played well you can usually meek out after eating cds but I wouldn't rely on them to play like tide.

>>175792497
Yeah I guess you're right. I hate the burst meta but I don't want to go back to the tank meta either. Id hoped by now we'd be able to have a nice in between but Epic hasn't released a tank in months.

>>175794425
I would honestly think that reworking how broken crit is right now would help. I would like to see that addressed before they powercreep tanks again.

>>175795137
It feels like it's just way too easy to get 100% critical rate.

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/parag/, let's see that amazing deck you've created
With all this talk about Kwang, I thought I'd share my build with TC, it's a good item on him

https://www.epicgames.com/paragon/deckbuilder/en-US/decks/Synonynonym/393cec3e-596f-4a09-b380-96118ee7f82a/simulate

>>175790967
>you will get bullied hard out of lane if you go for last hits.
That's the entire risk of offlane, no?
>>175790967
>So. You're playing as a character with wet noodles for armor. And you think you can harass the duo lane hard enough to take the tower
>Man it's almost like you don't have a jungler you can have help gank you when you activate her clap ability, ULT, smack them a few times, and as soon as they try to get away, use her ascend ability and then finish them off.
>>175790967
>Why the fuck would you ever want to do this fast?
Take the offlane tower and proceed to bully the safelane, or rotate to other lanes and speedball the other towers
>>175790967
>Just save us both the time and post elo
I was doing this in high gold, bottom plat. Went on a losing streak with Revenant assholes and now I'm mid to bottom gold

Thoughts on revenant now that it's been a while since his release? I feel like skipping his ult until scar and obliterate are maxed works well.

>>175798216
Get his ult early as it lets you snowball with the cp bounty. 9/10 times you are popping it to just grab the last hit on easy secures. Late game use it to cancel big channels, focus out the adc, to get away etc. It is pretty flexible. His obliterate's scaling needs to be toned down or its lvl 1 power slightly reduced. Not by much though as it isn't as broke as mori hive or some shit.
I think he is in a decent spot. Not as crazy as yin, not as weak as grim. Crit is the best on him I have found so far. I think thats just because of how strong crit is though. They need to get rid of 100% crit bonus.
>Snowballs so fucking hard or gets rekt
not much in between

>>175795843
My kwang. Still don't know about TC man.

https://www.epicgames.com/paragon/deckbuilder/en-US/decks/Cheshh/4fd668f6-b6fe-4efb-be25-9ec8b628b7c4/simulate

>>175692394
Is this any good, /parag/, or in trying to do too much, do I fail to do anything at all?

New(?) Countess porn on Paheal.

>>175798216
Sparrow is better and hit's harder and more consistently.

I'll give Revenant the early game dominance, but overall there are better heroes to pick if your matches go into mid-late game

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>>175802439
"New Paragon porn?" Don't make me lol-
>Posted: 2017-05-03 13:57:15
Oh shit it's finally starting

>>175801813
go crit and power. Ability pen just isn't very good on him. Early game power > pen and late game crit > all.

>>175801813
Also, attack speed doesn't do shit for him. For early power just do adamant edges into crit. Sale the adamant edges late game and pick up a hunger maul and enjoy 2 shotting people.

>>175803093
>>175803606
The madstones weren't for the attack speed, just for the cheaper damage spike early game. Are you sure ability penetration isn;t good on him? His single strongest attack is obliterate (can easily break 1000 damage: I was only ever able to get Murdock to hit for 930, and that was with Prime).

Day 12 hurray

>>175796332
OK cool post profile cause I was running crit Dekker in offlane and it worked in high gold too haha.......

Back it up homie lemme see them winrates

>>175806628
you can rely on a finicky 1k damage obliterate that has a 6 sec cd and forces you to solo your target or it does ~50% less damage than you intended or you can crit for 5-600 damage per auto reliably with no drawbacks. Up to you.
With the madstones I would still swap em for adamant edges. more power and some hp.

>>175791774
where is this meme that we lost the last thread coming from
it made it all the way to bump limit

>win 4 games in a row to get out of silver again
>get the last card i was missing to finally get all of them
how many losses will i get now?

dead?

>>175811795
You'll never win again

>>175811795
You're in for a rough time, boyo

>>175811795
The deck I want to make I need around fifteen or so more cards.

So much suffering.

>>175812639
>>175812772
guess its time to play HotS to get the overwatch skins till my luck picks back up
>>175812837
can you craft any of them?

>>175812929
I'm poor as shit, just spent all my metal one two other cards I needed for the deck, and I don't any anywhere near enough red stuff for the fury cards I need.

>>175813047
sucks just keep buying card packs every 10k rep eventually you'll either get the cards you need or enough of ones you have to scrap to make the ones you want.

>>175813225
I've been buying the 10k rep packs. I got my first Divine Shield yesterday. I'm pretty excited.
>>175813047
I'm poor too. I'm getting unlucky with cards I need for metal. I want to make a Healer Token badly.

>>175813629
>>175813225
Yeah. It's pretty irksome that I can't make the end all deck that I want, but having to tweak it to fit, and hunt for the cards I need is also kind of fun. And who knows, maybe I'll end up finding something that works better for me any way.

>>175813724
Yeah like how you get card packs for leveling up characters. I have a bit of motivation to play other characters now which is kinda fun.

>>175814068
>I have a bit of motivation to play other characters now which is kinda fun.
this is fine so long as you never play kallari

>>175808793
I was 1407 when I stopped maining Serath, Sparrow and Belica.

I haven't touched Serath for maybe a month. I was sitting around 1350's before Revenant came out and Orb nerf. I'm at 1302 now.

>>175814386
>win the vast majority of my games when I play Countess because I can make up for my teams not pushing lanes in an instant while also dealing enough damage to 1 v 1 almost anyone
>when I try to play anyone else, my ELO starts to tank because I can't make up for sloppy play on my team's part
I've just accepted that Countess is the only character I'm allowed to play in this game.

>>175814262
I'm never playing Kallari outside of a bot match because I'm tired of getting shit Kallari players on my team. I'm glad someone else knows that feel.

>>175814812
i dodge every time i see someone pick her on my team

>>175814909
I've only ever dodged once and am beginning to think I should do it more often.

>>175814781
i felt the same about greystone for a while before they made armor useless now i just always jungle since so many people suck at it.
>>175815025
its worth it when you see really terrible comps

>>175815234
>its worth it when you see really terrible comps
But then there's the one time in a million that it works: I had a great Kallari the other day, which made me more tolerant until I went ahead with a game with a Kallari/ Shinbi and got rekt

>>175815389
>But then there's the one time in a million that it works: I had a great Kallari the other day, which made me more tolerant until I went ahead with a game with a Kallari/ Shinbi and got rekt
>tfw played a game earlier with a muriel building armor and an offlane rampage who AFK'd the first 6 mins
>we won because me and a murdoc carried hard
assume this game is full of idiots

>>175815616
Lesson learned. I wish the dodge penalties weren't so fucking severe, though, otherwise I'd be getting the fuck out of every other draft. I guess that's the point, though, but that just proves that Epic are aware of how fucking bad the matchmaking is.

>>175815879
isn't it just like a 5 min penalty or have they changed it? i stopped playing for like 5 months due to frustration.

>>175815879
The penalties are literally nothing though. They need to be higher if anything.

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>>175814781
>I've just accepted that Countess is the only character I'm allowed to play in this game.
That's pretty much Sparrow for me. I've pulled wins out of my ass even with disconnected teammates and feeders

>>175816482
I need to find a character like that

>>175816523
play a few bot matches with heroes you like or think you might like that's what i did till i fell in love with grey and khai

>>175816523
When my friend first showed me this game back in Legacy Sparrow was my first character and it just felt so right.
Every once in a while I do get bored and pick up a new character. I didn't even start playing Narbash (Who's tons of fun) until like last month.
Most I can say is just play who interests you, and when that doesn't work, play heroes who you think wouldn't interest you. You may surprise yourself and find someone you really enjoy and have chemistry with.

>>175816018
>>175816085
>5 minutes
>20 minutes
>1 hour
>6 hours
>day long ban
I mean, I've never dodged more than twice in a row intentionally, but last I heard these were the numbers on Legacy towards the end, and I can't imagine they've changed all that much.

>>175816523
Whoever it is, they need good wave clear or just to be a top tier fighter like Kwang.
Fuck it: stick a Thunder Cleaver on Kwang (you should be doing that anyway) and you have okay-ish if inconsistent wave clear, high damage output and good durability.

>>175816523
I recommend Kwang, he is overall a good fighter and easy to play. Landing the sword tether to save teammates/finish enemies is like busting a nut on yo math teacher

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Holy shit I just noticed the new r34 of Countess was by Leeterr
Sweet sandals of Jesus we're in for some shit if he likes the characters

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>>175817082
>>175817765
>>175795843
Korea dude confirmed best boy

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Leeter seems to like Countess a lot. I hope we get some more.

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>>175818690
>That collarbone definition

This is too much

>>175818690
Shit. Vampire bitch is hot

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>>175819070
>>175819394
I know right.

I-I want to play Countess now

>>175817765
>>175817082
>>175795843
Thanks I'll try him soon. I don't have Thunder Cleaver.

>>175795843
>>175818006
>tfw I can't play Gideon because his meteor shot will screw up my aim with Kwang's tether

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how the fuck do diamond players still not know how to get stacks on sevarog? i just played against a 1706 sevarog with 50 games on him and over 47 minutes he didnt even get to 90 stacks

>>175819024
>That ass
I'd be a contributing member of society for that
>That background
Oh Legacy, I miss you

>>175821696
I wasn't interested in Countess before today...

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>>175821804
Welcome to the Cuntess club, friend.

yeah why haven't they touched mori again

even ice bitch got put in the dirt quicker than this what's the hold up

>>175821959
We wuz shamans and shieeet

>>175821959
>Not having specific decks for Jungle bitch

>>175821923
Now to figure out if I have the right cards for her.

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Oh hey it's one of our guys

I really hate Morigesh

>STILL shitting on Revenant players with my Twinblast.

I gave it time and thought players would've figured out how to play him.

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>no one has the guts to dodge
>win anyways
why the fuck does iggy do so much damage when played semi correctly? waves die instantly

is this game fun or is it bad and dead

>>175823623>>175826161
oh
rip you

>>175826491
Yes

>>175826161
You have two items I want. Ash of the Bitch & Shadow Scroll. Reeeeee

>>175826798
shadow scrolls are a lot easier to get than ash of the whore. iggy doesnt even need it thought because if you get near him he dies anyways, his speedup does fuck all

Anyone else still get these fucking random.freezes???

>>175826962
My team chat broke last match and I was unable to speak to my team.

>>175826962
yeah ive been getting that a bit more this patch

>>175827057
I thought it was just me. Random lag spikes too.

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>celebrity status in a Taiwanese basket weaving forum achieved

>>175828214
Why's your elo higher than everyone else on both teams?

>>175828287
i'm queueing with cdromulus. fobbit is the poster that keeps going against me

>>175828653
Noice. Have fun!

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If you guys ever encounter CovertGG in a draft, I'd recommend dodging. He's a cool guy and one of my favorite streamers but he sucks ass.

I've bumped into him twice tonight, he was the weakest link throughout the game and ended up losing the game. I bumped into him a bit after but he was on the enemy team this time and I was the Serath in offlane going up against him playing Sparrow. Long story short, he ended up losing too.

>>175828214
>>175828653
Wasn't Fobbit who posted that one but dunno about that first one

now that i'm 1800 am i cool enough to stream

>>175829771
you just got carried by cdrom let's be honest

>>175829771
You may as well.

>>175830040
the iggy game sure but we only locked those characters because we wanted someone to dodge and they did not

>>175830429
No I meant in general
get to 1800 solo then talk to me

>>175826962
that AND huge lag spikes like 3 sec ones people are teleporting like crazy

I know it's on EBINs net code/server end because I opened up Overwatch and Titanfall after a game and didn't lag on either of those

be nice if the ping/fps counter worked in Paragon like it does those other games but NO, incompetent devs

>>175816940
nope used to be like half that

2min
10min
20min

they're ridiculous now fuck EPIC

>tripple or quad adc lobby
>kallari lobby
>bad picking in general like iggy or crunch
>AND I GET PUNISHED FOR IT, TWICE IF I DECIDE TO STAY 3 TIMES FOR A FUCKING AFK AND 4 IF A D/C

>>175831556
Crunch has the top win rate in diamond

>>175831769
bullshit Aurora does but it is strange that Crunch is up that high

>>175831913
Heroes that almost no one plays always wind up at the top of these things because the few people who do play them are one-trick autists who have completely mastered the hero. They're still not good picks.

>late night plat-diamond
>same 20-30 people spread through every game
>look through their match histories and see them going against the same people
>teams are basically just mixed and matched in a pool of 100 people at night

>>175834076
Nice.

>Jungling Kallari
>Silver
I-I want to dodge but I don't want a penalty

>nearly every top 100 paragon players has a link to their twitch stream on agora

>>175834891
Some of them also have their agora profile info hidden

I think I'd pay to never see Kallari

how do armor/ability pen factor into damage?

>>175834929
They have this so other teams can't see their strats/scrim info

>>175840046
That makes sense.

Why is it always the Khaimera that gets fed? ree

>>175842068
just silver things

>it's another enemy premade episode

Literally been in queue for 2 hours because of queue dodgers, and there are people in this general RIGHT NOW who think the punishment should be even lighter.

I love how psychological warfare is a fucking thing. Gadget is such a bully.

>>175842443
I've only ever dodged once and it was because I forgot to make a deck. It's painful to play with bad matchups but I do it anyway.

>>175819939
Stay away from my main reeeeee

>>175843348
I will until I have decent corruption items

>>175825431
Me too man, me too.

Oh boy, I sure love when our jungler does nothing so our offlane ragequits.

>>175843392
All you really need is a Shadow Scroll with 3 major/ dire shocks, the rest is pure power, so mix and match Adamant Edge/ Staff of The Adamant/ Venom Shell.
And bring a ward.

>>175843673
Sounds like the offlaner's problem, desu. I just let them take the tower if it becomes more trouble than it's worth: more farm for me, and they either have to hang around to defend anyway, or go wandering lanes and miss out on farm.
No excuse for a bad jungler, though.

>>175843718
I don't have a shadow scroll. Rip

>>175844459
Sorcerer's Ward is the next best thing, just don't build Pen until you have most of your power cards bought.
Alternatively, break down 2 uncommon+ 2 common corruption, or sacrifice a single rare. Surely one of those options is available to you?

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>>175838207
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PROVXpOqTvw&list=PLx7K-AE5JqhDRUXCgCn76WYRM7KXsxDoc&index=8

fighters build up to 32 naturally without any extra the other classes slightly less so basically 32pen of whatever type will do "true dmg"

>>175844858
Thanks boss. I have a Shadow Scroll now. I dismantled a 4 cost crit and some random 100% crit bonus duplicates

I love saving an ally from a gank by drawing the enemy into a 1vs1 with me as Revenant. I wonder if I negate countess's attack if I pull her in fast enough.

>>175848967
You can but I think you have to do it before the blades come down. Countess' ULT has stopped me personally dozens of times because the ult actually stops your character from doing anything once your caught in the animation.
I did play a match though where I was about to get ulted by Countess and Revenant pulled her into the nether realm.
After shitting my pants, my character was in the cc animation because of her ult but recovered and I hauled ass

>>175834076
I actually kind of like this, ya get to kind of know everyone

>playing Countess
>come in from behind on every team fight to remove an unlucky target from the equation
>mid ult, the entire enemy team turns and unloads everything on me, killing me instantly and saving their teammate
Shit happened three or four times last game, what the actual fuck. Should I congratulate them on their coordination, or blame my team for not using the opportunity to attack?

>>175849987
I've seen this time and time again. Most I can say is that it goes both ways. Either wait and choose the target that your team has already targeted instead of initiating yourself; or your team fucked up and let someone get away with 10 health

How do you think spell vamp is going to impact the game?

It's essentially lifesteal for casters right?

>>175848705
thanks anon

>>175850715
Or mana-steal, can be either.

>>175850715
Link?
If it doesn't drain mana, it's a wasted opportunity.

>>175851078
Never mind, it's on the Reddit

Any tips for landing Kwang's tether? You have to lead the target, right?

>>175852010
yes

What's with so many Aurora players having underscores in their names?

This game has become unplayable. From the shitty burst meta to Moribitch to the insane lag and stutters.

If Spellvamp does drain mana from the targetx Belica is gonna be murdering Countess/Gideon even harder with her drone + vamp.

If it is lifesteal then alright too, I guess.

Everything about fighting Morigesh is annoying and infuriating.

>Sprints at you and marks you with that fucking shriek
>Ticks damage on you for 12 solid seconds while auto attacking you and shrieking at you multiple times as she chases you
>Loud as fuck global ult

It infuriates me because I know if my jungler rotated more, she would be punished for chasing and tower diving so much.

The sounds and nature of her whole kit is so rage inducing.

Play Support
>Sieger never defends towers

Play Sieger
>Carry feeds the enemy jungler

Play Carry
>Everyone else does too

Play Tank
>Build nothing but defense and regen and spend all game baiting chases and juking erratically while my team feeds off of the enemies tunnel vision.

OOOOOh so THAT'S how you're supposed to have fun.

>>175858854
what the heck is a sieger

>>175859054
a typo

>>175859054

People who can manipulate minion waves well and push lanes remarkably fast

>>175859127
what was it supposed to say?

>>175859198
Seiger

>>175859054
>>175859127
>>175859198
>>175859314

Wait I had it right the first time.
It's the term they use for Pusher.

How do the defense penetrations work in this game?
I'm coming from Dota and I don't understand how the defenses work.

Is penetration ever worth it early on?
Can you bring people into negative defense?
How much is enough to compensate for base defenses?

>>175859615
see
>>175848705
May not clear everything up, but might help

>>175859615
Go back. Even 7.0x is better than the hot garbage that is this game.

>tfw no desire to play until after v.40 because I don't want to get used to the game how it is now only for it to change drastically.

What am I supposed to do for two weeks?

Dota 2 is too hard to get into, Heroes of the Storm seems way too brawler-esque (so is Paragon right now, but at least it looks cooler), and League Of Legends just rubs me the wrong way.

>>175859615

32 ability pen will get you true damage on even tanks as long as they don't build any armor cards, which in this burst/cc meta people rarely do. Even Greystone is just another crit/crit bonus character now because it's the easiest way to win the game.

>>175732645
Wait a sec, why wouldn't you want a grim to have higher attack speed? I only use 3 cp on a whirling wand but it makes all the difference in the world and let's me kill someone instead of almost killing them.

>>175867146
Nevermind I'm fucking retarded and can't read.

>>175865239
>build tank sevarog
>win

>build glass cannon dmg sevarog
>lose

idk m8

>>175852010
It takes a while to get used to, just aim ahead and it'll land because it isn't an instant tether.

>>175869725
glass cannon sevarog only works if the enemy is retarded and even then your Q has dogshit power scaling and will only do like 50 more even with full power

>>175869725
>glass cannon sevarog

is this a meme ?

>tfw 55 friends have been offline for 3 or 4 months straight
>saw one log on yesterday and sit in menus for awhile before logging back off

>>175882428
epic killed their own game

>>175876808
yeah if u succ

ON RELEASE HEROEE:
>Serath
Trash
>Aurora
OP as fuck what the hell
>Shinbi
Trash
>Yin
OP as fuck what the hell
>Morigesh
Epic focus groups must just sit around taking mad bong rips without clearing cause they're smoking SOMETHING fierce
>Revenant
Shitters who can't aim think he's balanced and sucks past mid game because they miss all their shots and their Q stops instantly deleting people but people who can actually aim understand how O FUCKING P he is

Like dude how often do you see Shinbi or Aurora picked anymore? Epic is trash at balance bro.

Why is moving to a different area called "rotating" ?

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276KB, 842x1295px

>>175887685

off > mid > safe
off < mid < safe

I dunno a rotation would normally mean something round I guess if I had one of those 3 pic diagrams with each lane it'd make sense but what you are doing is covering the lane "closest" to you so there's no gaps and you don't lose towers

Don't worry if you're bronze/silver/gold because no one does this ESPECIALLY not junglers

>lose a game we were comfortably winning because I get nuked in a badly-timed team-fight and the rest of my team are too braindead to stop chasing kills to defend our inhibitor
>core goes to 10% as a result
>enemy team just deathballs up the lane and finishes it

>next game's going well, too
>but our Aurora will not stop pinging for us to group up and attack mid lane
>everyone does, every single time, despite them having a Dekker/Aurora/ Gadget ult combo waiting every single time

I want to strangle these people that ruin all of my hard work with their shitty playing.

>>175857679
It's probably going to be a lifesteal, Belica is already good as fuck now meta wise giving her EXTRA mana draining capability will make her OP and will probably see her "adjusted" if so

>>175889425
I've just been curious as to why it's called that, when beyond say something like starting off, there's no real route anyone follows anyway

pre-game bump

>>175876808
not entirely. if the enemy team has a dogshit sevarog its viable

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10KB, 379x505px

>>175890126
I think it's just because it's a sort of cyclical thing.

>>175893290
that's a fucked up looking vagina

>>175887003
My friend is a master Aurora and still plays her

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912KB, 1920x1200px

>how not to play sevarog

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10KB, 143x58px

I love silver league.

>Disassemble cards for Shadow Scroll before bed
>Wake up and open diamond chest
>Shadow Scroll & Madgem
O-Okay Paragon

>>175898536
You can never have too many shadow scrolls.

>>175898775
Having two might be nice, yeah. I see a fair number of players stack shadow scrolls

>>175899662
I have 5 from the time I bought into the stacking shadow scrolls meme, but now I just dump all my pen into one Shadow scroll and build power in everything else. Ability Pen isn't a priority until mid-late game, so it's good to leave it off and focus on the essentials. I get the logic in thinking that you're keeping pace with the enemy's natural armour gain with each completed card, but power is just more versatile (assuming we're talking Countess here).

>>175900990
The ones that I see stack it are Morigesh players. I thiink I saw Gideon stack it a couple times too.

Why is Revenant so fun? Who else should I play that has a similar play style/kit?

>>175901604
Makes sense: Morigesh's main shtick isn't utility and wave clear, it's explicitly fucking other players up at every opportunity.

>>175901812
Morigesh. They're basically the same character.
>lock-on damage ability that ensures other abilities do more damage
>shitty wave management
>annoying as fuck unavoidable damage

>>175902005
Agreed

Did old AotW proc on Belica's aoe or on the zap?