/rlg/ - Roguelike General

first for chei

headroom is bloat

>>172718826
You're doing it wrong.

Oh yeah. Dark gift has the dark cooldown. That's why Friar Rush has quiet prayer.

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why am this happen?

checked all gear, but nothing looked like it would be causing this

>>172719321
Because it's dark you retard

>>172719264
It has a cooldown of 2, which means quiet prayer does nothing.

>>172719361
but phial is equipped

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>play ent wild talent
>You gain the power of "summon tree" like an ent!

>>172719475
did you let the phial recharge in the daylight? If you didn't, it won't work.

>>172719384
isnt there a 25% chance for something "good"

>>172719321
Haha, cute!

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>>172720686
that's just ridiculous and untrue

What should I take for primary on orb? Ice Ring is still good after patch and I usually take elec for primary but elec just doesn't feel good due to all the missing unless you put a few points into Agility.

>>172720686
>daylight
>not starlight
>not the light of the Silmaril carried on the bow of Eärendil's skyship

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>>172723941
>reading Silmarillion (again) now

I... I just survived a horde of 25+ zombies and a shocker brute in a 'wolf suit', armed only with a simple pump action shotgun... I took almost no damage somehow. Is the wolf suit OP?

>>172723749
dark used to be god tier but ferret nerfed it with an ugly stick because no fun allowed

>>172724463

Since its furshit, probably.

Would a monster filter mod from 2015 still work? I'm trying to collect on a list of filter mods for maximum customization with Bloatclysm.

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>>172724463
Forgot to attach pic.

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>>172723941
>Light of the silmaril on Eärendil's ship
>not the light which begat it, from the trees Laurelin or Telperion
>not the cosmic primordial blaze of Aulë's two Great Lamps, Illuin and Ormal
>"Melkor looks scared!"

>>172724773
to gaze upon the light of the two trees once again before I die, that was my only wish
blargh

>>172724919
I wonder if Morgoth Bauglir still had a chord of goodness in him, despite it all..
Doubtful, considering how long a time he had to corrupt himself.

>>172724773
Is it canon that the lamps in Valinor made it permanent daytime? I always figured it was more like permanent dusk with a reassuring distant light.

>>172725192
Well, there certainly wasn't any day-night cycle during the time of the lamps. As for the strength of the light, I'm not sure. It wasn't specified (as I can remember, anyway), but you're probably right: permanent dusk with a reassuring distant light.

Angband is so lucky to have Middle-Earth as a setting. It really was a good choice

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Is this a JoJo reference?

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>One "day" lasted twelve hours. Each Tree, in turn, would give off light for seven hours (waxing to full brightness and then slowly waning again), so that at one hour each of "dawn" and "dusk" soft gold and silver light would be given off together.[1]

Neat

>>172725359
Dio's in there, so probably.

>anon makes op pic
>uses brogue thing
Yeah happy 1st of April to you too you fuckhead

>>172719321
Cowardice/fear-vulnerability causes that

aw shucks

out of coffee again

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>>172708913
Oh please anon
I'm not *that* dumb

By the way:
TrunkMuMo status: Hot garbage.

Literally unplayable. getting 0 UC means dying over and over in D:1 and D:2.

Friendly reminder that if a roguelike's website is hosted on Google Sites it's safe to ignore.

>>172732158
like what
incursion?

>>172732405
Brogue and InfraArcana are two reasonably well known ones that do it, but I've noticed a lot of smaller roguelikes seem to use google sites for some god awful reason as well.

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>>172732482
PCB uses google sites
what's the matter with it

also I rolled around in dosh for a while in wizmode to see if lazy android monk could actually work out
Turns out it actually can thanks to the fact the black market gives you items proportional to your level
Just equip a really strong thing you can't use (like a very pricy weapon+ dragon armor) and keep sleep-rerolling until you get something really good
Still, rootkit lawnchair has something like a 25% failrate so that sucks
lazy is horrible, don't play it

How's PCB different from the traditional Angband? Is it only more content, or is the gameplay different?
(Also, would it still be fun to play as a Tolkien lore fan?)

>>172733670
Well, angband only has one town and a dungeon. Poscheng and the variants before it added a whole wilderness (a gigantic angband map), something like 20 dungeons in total, each one of them with a themed boss that when you kill him gives you class-appropriate loot and a stat-up of your choice.

Man, this makes PCB look a lot more interesting than it actually is
On paper, the game's great

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>>172733670
>(Also, would it still be fun to play as a Tolkien lore fan?)
Not really. There's very littleTolkien, if at all, in Poschengband.
You want Sil for that.

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Finally a good weapon, 700 damage against evil enemies.
Not too shabby, frankly. Against good I can just throw Hellfire.

My speed is real shit though, and killing Destroyer ate through lot of my consumeables.

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>NAO outputs colors differently to my local Nethack install so I have to use a completely different configuration for my terminal emulator or else some tiles just don't draw
Well that's incredibly annoying.

>>172734329
>7.30 hours
>coffebreak mode
Why aren't you using the cesti of the destroyer?

>>172734691
Didn't drop them.

I also managed to find with a sling with electricity immunity, so I got my elemental resistances completely covered.

>>172734872
He has a chance not to drop them? That sucks.
Also is having immunity that important over having just 72%?
Wouldn't having 3 Rshards/shounds/nexus/darkness be more important?

>>172734942
Immunity also protects from auras. It's rather nifty, and I don't lose a lot anyway.

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>>172735373
And that's Oberon out of the way.

>>172734329
How about changing the name fro "coffebreak" to "day off" mode

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It's like I'm playing my life.

>cranes
Mother of God. Why does EVERYTHING need a crane? Do I need another crane to install a crane?
Where can I get pipes and wires?

>>172737198
On cranes.

>>172736930
>your skill in roguelikes has increased to 1
>you feel sad for a moment

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>>172737198
>>172737452
That's new to me, but then again I haven't touched vehicle construction in more than a year.

>>172737792
Hopefully they won't find out that interdimensional monsters are unrealistic

tfw xtahua mumo not up

>don't even have all equip slots filled yet

>>172737792
>that pic
isn't that how real cars work

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>>172740270
shit forgot the picture

>>172740568
what game is that and is it good

Is anyone else having problems with poschengband 6.0.0 and savefiles? I started a new game after not playing it for a year, saved, exited and now every time I try and load my savefile it just dumps "loading" in the terminal and insta-closes. I really want to continue my game but I can't figure out what to do - I've tried admin mode and such in case it needed to write somewhere and couldn't do it, but that didn't seem to help, and I'm really running out of ideas.

>>172741118
It's The Temple Of Torment.
Game has problems

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>>172738172
Later

>>172741612
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8311

>>172742857
>http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8311


50 dicks. Thanks, anon. I will try and contain my mild rage and play an earlier version.

Need a goal right now. First reply chooses the game I'll play until I ascend.
So far I've only won DCSS (15-rune). No *band please.

>>172743315
Nightmare mode incursion
get fucked

What Stone Soup build do you guys recommend? The pastebin claims newer releases are dumbed down.

>>172743315
The original crawl

>>172743375
Don't know anything about that one. Will report when I realize how fucked I am.

>>172743375
I would guess that you're bad at Incursion, because nightmare mode isn't actually that difficult.
>>172744942
All it does is increase base "depth," which determines the strength of spawns for that floor (enemies and items), by 3. So floor 1 spawns items and enemies as if it were floor 4 in a non-nightmare game. If you know how to play Incursion, this means that you get both EXP and good items faster, and later floors spawn extremely powerful items.

>>172745362
>isn't actually that difficult.
No, it isn't. But it crashes every time you go down past dungeonlevel 7.

>>172743443
Just play a good game instead.

NetHack meets Brogue!

https://www.reddit.com/r/brogueforum/comments/62s74u/announcement_new_variant_brogue_fourq/

>>172723941
But daylight is starlight.

>>172745591
This isn't funny even as a joke.

>>172745591
I don't understand if this is an april 1st joke or an actual thing because of the wall of text.

>>172745753
>>172746331
Isn't it supposed to be a play on Nethack4, which also was announced on April 1 but turned out to be a real game?

>>172746795
I am not reading all that shit, so who knows.
It'd honestly be nice to have a nethack fork with brogue's UI though.

>>172745480
Like what?

In PCB, do you have to start with the riding skill (IE play Cavalier or something) to be able to ride creatures, or is it possible to train it from 0 in some sort of icky ride fashion?

>>172747584
linely's

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>>172743443
I personally prefer 0.14.

>>172747584
Lindsay's Crawl
it was made by a girl so you know it's good ^.^

>>172748590
.15 is still pretty good.
It was the turning point of dcss.

>>172748876
0.10*

Xtahua MuMo Up!

>>172748876
Yeah, 0.15 was the point of turning to unplayable (for me). So thanks but no thanks.

Bring back victory dancing

>>172743443
Just play 0.19 or trunk/0.20. There's no reason to start playing DCSS at an old and unmaintained version of the the game, considering that improvements are made all the time.

There was a small discussion in the past thread, but the main reason people on /rlg/ dislike DCSS is due to its low headroom (as in, there aren't tons of different ways to reach a given goal). Each version of Crawl does more to re-establish that fact, even when (some) people don't like it.

PCB is historically liked here because 1) it has high as fuck headroom and 2) there are lots (and I mean *lots*) of unexplored options that could lead to wins. That doesn't mean it's a good game, or that Crawl is bad -- just different design goals.

tl;dr:
The answer to "what's the best version of Crawl" in /rlg/ is always "The version I started playing."

>>172749249

What happened with 0.15/generally to make DCSS turn shit? I stopped playing DCSS years ago.

>>172749665
>"The version I started playing."
Not really, but whatever.

>>172749665
That's a lie! I started playing in 0.6 and there were many improvements made from there.

>>172749665
The main reason people on /rlg/ dislike DCSS is because the devs are egoistical fucktards who've sucked out all the fun, flavor and player choice out of the game. Their "muh design philosophy", DM vs. players mentality and hipster dev buzzword based game design have turned the game into a stale, streamlined Product.

All the gods have been narrowed down, nerfed and turned viable for a smaller subset of characters.
Countless spells and items have been nerfed, dumbed down or removed.
Retarded kneejerk reaction mechanics like energy randomization, OoD clock, runelock, bezotting that are just pure cancer, all because some player played the game in a way that made the devs butthurt.

>>172749693
The most prominent point of 0.15 was the removal of item destruction.
Overall lots of little fun things got removed, the game got shortened and simplified. Lots of really great things got shittified because of fictional "balance" (the new god being the most prominent example).
Basically, if you liked throwing stones at jellies or dropping a knife so that annoying orc warrior picks it up and wastes a turn to create a gap, or using a wand of random effects to break a wall in the lab, or frankly speaking any other semi-obscure tech, then you'll be disappointed by the current versions, hard.
Even cantrips now are mentioned explicitly (<foo miscasts a cantrip>) instead of old flavor text.
Also necromancy got nerfed hard, there are no rods, disk of storms, cards (Nemelex only, moved to invo from evo — yeah, bullshit, I know), amulets of stasis, clarity, warding, mutation resistance, wands of disint no longer affect statues or walls, wands of haste, tele, invis and heal are no more...
Everything is IDd very easily.
Anyway I need to go, can't list everything I dislike, but you got the general picture.

>>172743443
The newest one.

>dumbed down
Yes, it's "dumbed down" if you enjoy tedious shit that doesn't bring much into the game or shit that's so obviously the best choice that you won't ever consider other ones. The only thing I miss are Stalkers and old Ogres.

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I should probably keep both weapons around.

>>172731245
Having killed the glory that was MuSu of SifMu, the dev team have moved on to the next target.

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Are your assholes fucking ready
Probably not
someday

>>172752354
oooooooooooooooooooooooooh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiet
where

>>172752535
Nowhere yet, desu
It's gonna happen though, repo is setup and things are in motion.
You can treat it as an announcement.

>>172752594
>It's gonna happen though, repo is setup and things are in motion.
is that you floatrand
gib link to repo

>>172752673
lel no
https://github.com/DynaMoHack
nothing exciting yet, literally just started

>>172752820
You know, you could import some of the "harder than convict" classes from Slex. That would be fun.
Just don't go the bad route and import slex's traps

>>172753006
Yeah, there's some plans for neat stuff.
Don't worry, won't go (too much) overboard.
Don't expect anything too soon, though.

>>172753097
Alright, that's fine
I'm good at waiting

>>172753097
>Don't expect anything too soon, though.
So, never ever?

>>172753006
Is that you Arrhythmia? Gotta love the fact that someone will finally port over the Murderer, even though that someone isn't the filthy harlot that is Amy. :)

>>172724463
A shotgun is a good weapon, and fursuits have some padding. Taking no damage from a shocker brute is a bit odd, on account of the shocking, but not impossible if you can kill it fast.

>>172753223
Yeah, I'd love to play as one of those stupidly hard classes now that I've seen that convicts aren't that bad.

>>172753180
He's already made a pretty successful nethack fork, so I'd keep my hopes high.
As long as I keep having a *hack fork that lets me play with orange/black, I'm happy.

>>172754037
So am I right in assuming you'd like the Murderer role ported?
That could be done.

>>172750773
>there are no rods, disk of storms
But these still exist in 0.19

>wands of haste, tele, heal
Also still exist

>>172754378
I have to remember if it's the murderer that starts with everything cursed and horrible gear.
Amy can you back me on this one?

>>172754459
Yeah, pretty much
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Murderer_(role)

>>172754567
Oh yeah that's it
Has anyone ever won with it

>>172754938
There are 7 slex ascensions, but none have been done with the murderer. I (Amy) have played a few murderers, but even my best attempt ended early when something zapped a wand of sleep at me.

>>172755008
>There are 7 slex ascensions
In total?

How many of those aren't you?

Anyway if that's how things are I'll just have to try extra hard until I do
that's my specialty anyway

>>172755129
Yes, in total, and 0 of them are non-Amy ascensions. But maybe it will be easier to win the Murderer in a Dynahack environment, because all the other SLEX craziness doesn't exist.

oh yeah and I remmeberexactly how to cheese the starting items problem!
Just start as Zen and then take off the bandana, that summons a nymph that will steal all my items!

Hohoho
I'm the king of the cheese

>>172724596
what tileset is that.

>>172755293
Pretty sure it is the default 'ChestHole' tileset.

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Still alive, though I only play a bit of this daily. Since I don't know what I'm doing anyway, I put all of my exp into the auto-ID skill. At least now I know what I'm carrying, good for me.

does halo increase accuracy for everyone or only the player?

>>172755758
Only the player if you radiate one, obviously

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>>172756068
obviously your grandma, the player tile is also hallowed

>>172755758
If you're standing near an altar with a halo radiating around it and fighting a monster, you both get the bonus.
You can cheese it by luring a mob into the halo and fighting it while he's one square into it and you're outside of it.

>try anything but Gozag early/mid game
>end up with trash gear
>try anything but Makhleb late/extended
>end up not being able to comfortably otab through almost anything
How do I into gods other than these two, especially Mak, I want to try something different

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Shouldn't I be getting a morale bonus for this?
Because I'm kinda getting a morale bonus right now just from reading the text.

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Should have had more speed.

>>172725359
if you wear the stone mask of the vampire you become a vampire permanently (well, barring a poly effect)

so yes

>>172756754
>Shesha the infinite
That's new.
Alright, you got me. I'm gonna play a psion now.

>>172756694
I'm assuming you mean besides the usual suspects -- Trog and Okawaru for early game, TSO and Zin for extended -- right?

>>172756883
One of the new monsters from Ellipsis/Pseudo/R.

>>172756754
rib

>>172756337
What?

>>172757549
tiles under the halo get a white bubble effect similar to the one neutral or friendly creatures get, this includes enemies and the player, implying that they're all under the same effect. surely dcss hasn't abandoned polymorphism altogether, and everyone enjoys the evasion debuff

>>172755758
If you (intentionally) radiate your own halo from Eos or being a TSO follower, then enemies don't get a bonus to-hit against you. Otherwise, being under a random halo means everyone is Corona'd and has a higher chance of getting hit by crap.

>>172756694
>Trog
Isolating things and berserking them means 100% win in 1v1 unless you're way over your head in depth/difficulty, just make sure nothing catches you when you're slowed/exhausted. Antimagic gifts are crazy good in late/extended. Brothers in Arms fall off in very late/extended but are ridiculously strong earlier. Trog's Hand can be spammed if there are any casters around.

>Okawaru
Heroism everything, it costs next to nothing. Finesse for stronger opponents. Don't go over 7 Invo unless you really don't have anything to do with xp.

>The Shining One
Weak early, but still playable. Use the SH bonus ability like Oka's Heroism early. Angel summons are very strong in non-extended. In extended pump Invocations high and Cleansing Flame everything, with 3-4 summons added for non-random bosses. Keep potions of magic around.

>Hep
Isolate things and 2v1 them. In mid-late level up some Invocations for Idealise. You can use a polearm from behind your ancestor if you feel extra cheesy. Transference allows for some neat repositioning tricks.

>Ely
She sucks, but pacifying still helps a lot in Lair and some Lair branches.

>Vehumet
A weak god for brainless players. Basically if you want to play your fire elementalist as a fire elementalist for the rest of the game without any skill branching, pick him.

>Sif
Fuck Sif. The mana regen and additional cast at low MP aren't that bad though.

>Kiku
I fucking hate Necromancy but Kiku is the actual good god for spellcasters. Use corpses for free summons.
>Yred
Like Kiku except if you don't want to actually be a spellcaster. Makes for an extremely easy mid game, then falls off hard late.
>Beogh
Like Yred, except you have orcs instead of undead. Same strengths and problems, EXCEPT Smite at high Invo is actually good for taking out threats like hellions or shining eyes.

(cont.)

>>172755638
>he fell for the loremaster meme

>>172747675
It is possible to train on anyone but different classes have different skill maximums and only Cavalry/Beastmaster/Skillmaster/Dragonwarlock can reach "Master" skill level.
Since your riding skill effectively determines the level of monsters you can ride, using it in endgame without 'Master' skill level is kind of pointless.
Especially because your speed is replaced by the mount's speed, so in the lategame you'll absolutely want a mount with 20+ speed to stay safe/competitive.

>>172758869
>Nemelex
Good god that will sometimes randomly try to kill you. Train Invocations (or Evocations in older versions) fast so you don't get killed by a bad summon. High powered summons can give you fucking pan lords before your first rune. Just pray they don't spawn with level 9 spells because they don't care if you get hit with AoE. Don't "save" decks, use them whenever necessary, just don't use destruction decks in melee (you can get an explosion). Escape decks are mostly bad.

>Lucy
Banish every fucking thing. Distortion is actually a decent brand, especially on fast weapons, so swap it in when not fighting archers or spellcasters. Corrupt in emergency, it's really fucking strong in mid game. Banish yourself in extreme emergency, preferably when you can already handle Abyss.

>Ashenzari
Scrying is good, everything else is annoying but still okay. Use fucking Scrying, it's good, really.

>Fedhas
Fuck Fedhas. He's really good early and still decent mid but I refuse to play this unfunny shit.

>Dithmenos
Worship for double large rocks on ogres, otherwise ignore. Not even felids or spriggans need this shit.

>Chei
You're now required to be actually decent at the game. Have fun.

>Qazlel
Has potential for damage but the noise issues usually outweigh the positives. Consider him a challenge god.

>Ru
This fucker is good. Don't be afraid of sacrifices, the bigger ones are quite often better than the smaller ones. If you take -scroll or -potion, either back off from fights VERY early or prepare alternative ways to deal with problems. Apocalypse solves every fuck up you might have gotten yourself into, but the drain is annoying.

>Uskayaw
You worship this for the sake of completion, not for the sake of it helping you with winning. It's there just to be there more or less, though instagibbing hell lords can be indeed fun.

(cont.)

>>172759946
Qazlal is pretty easy if you are beefy and train invocations. Upheaval is an excellent smite, and Disaster Zone just destroys everything in LOS.

My HOMo of Qazlal was one of my easier 15-runers.

>>172758869
>Oka: Don't go over 7 Invo unless you really don't have anything to do with xp.

Eh. Higher invo means longer durations of Heroism/Finesse. With Heroism, that means you can actually do some makeshift stabbing under the right circumstances, since your Stealth, Short Blades, and Armor skills will all get a boost (higher armor will lead to less of an encumbrance penalty).

I looked at the code, and I think it was 15/16 Invo where you get 50 turns on average for both Heroism and Finesse, which is more than fine. You don't *need* to reach 15, but I don't think 7 is enough, either, especially to deal with Finesse's fail rates.

>The Shining One

TSO is underrated in at least trunk, since you can freely use poison and venom with him. The bonus to-hit is nothing to sneeze at, especially for Hunter classes, and Angels are always god-tier summons and strong panic buttons before reaching The Vaults.

More importantly, having SeeInv via your halo and rN+(++) means less of a workload with inventory management, along with being able to tab through skill drainers without a care in the world (wights, and then later on, orc sorcerors, wizards, some deep elves, and shadow dragons).

>>172759946
>Xom
The highlight of Xom is that there's no real difference between worshipping him and abandoning him. Typically Xom will do nothing for the most time, then make a random easy fight actually hard just because. A challenge god.

>Jiyva
Don't worship this, it's bad. You get a free rune, annoying stat shuffling (guaranteed to disable either heavy armour or normal spellcasting for you) and random mutations for the price of losing 2/3 or more of the loot generated on the floor. Not worth it.

>Zin
Does absolutely nothing in early game and next to nothing in mid game, then gets really good in extended. Needs high Invocations for Recite. Sanctuary is so good that if you die while having it available, you're borderline retarded (or really not paying attention). Vitalisation is like a weak version of Oka's Heroism, but does help with poison in Lair and its branches. Imprison helps with certain threats that have limited range.

>Wu Jian
Was fun while its creator worked on it, then got bland and boring as soon as the Crawl devs got their hands on it. Stay away or play Sil or something if you want TACTICOOL KOMBAT.

>Pakellas
still ded

>>172760746
7 is enough for Finesse to be at 10% the moment you get it. With how cheap Heroism is, you can spam it even with low duration and if you're running out of piety due to overusing Finesse, you very likely fucked up the branch order or you play like a MiBe.

>TSO is underrated in at least trunk, since you can freely use poison and venom with him.
So you can use things that are available without worshipping any god, woo.
>The bonus to-hit is nothing to sneeze at, especially for Hunter classes
You need piety for this to be relevant for ranged.

I have some non-switched TSO wins and like I said, he's playable, but there are many better alternatives for non-extended.

>>172761086
>You need piety for this to be relevant for ranged.

Not really. If your ranged options are the highest-skilled, strongest, and fastest available, then nothing -- besides missing your shots and running out of ammo -- is stopping you from using them up close. With divine halo, you get more bang for your buck, even at low piety when you have a small halo. Again, useful for Hunters who might likely be pumping their ranged options early on.

>>172759595
I still think it's better than having no fucking idea what 3/4 of my inventory may possibly do.

>>172760773
>You get...random mutations
Arguable. He mostly offers the ability to wipe away only bad mutations. He allows you to keep, and gives you, very few mutations himself.

Xom reliably gives you more beneficial mutations Jiyva.

>>172760773
>Zin

Vitalisation is a weak version of Chei's passive stat boosts -- it doesn't affect skills. It also offers sustain abilities (one of the very few sources left in the game), which is nice in Tomb, although not utterly necessary, either.

Imprison helps with *all* threats but especially any ranged ones (torment/damnation users, for instance) that you might not be able to deal with right at that moment.

Still, Zin's usefulness really just scales with your Invocation. Besides mutation resistance, there isn't a reason to use him for a 3-rune game unless you want to see some fun effects in Vaults, where almost every enemy is intelligent and can be recited to.

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Yay.

>>172757790
Yes i get that but i always thought that if you carry the aura you arent affected by it

>>172763873
any new branches/lairs?

>>172765009
Yeah. Friar Rush has his own sanctum (probably spawns on the fourth floor), and there is also Ogun's at the 20th floor. I guess Baba Yaga's is on the 21st floor. I do wonder when the next major branch will be added.

>>172764618
i don't know the truth either. surely the game wouldn't lie to me and make special exceptions, but this is stone soup we're talking about, the devil's team has a sacrilege fetish.

>>172765383
soon™
I remember Ferret saying that he wants to add a lot more multi-floor branches like Anomaly. His reasoning is that completing Anomaly is the "in" thing right now and not completing it gimps your build/demons so he wants to add in more multi-floor branches that are really hard to complete all the floors of, with the idea of not completing all the branches but instead returning to tower after a floor or 2 due to the difficulty allowing you to pick and choose what to dive.

ded thread

ded genre

>>172768874
7979999866646366663333366668899997663331122222211111111122322213699874123322Z2
Z3
Z4
aa
Z1
Z1
Z1
Z1
22222222123369874123369874123Z1
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2211111>

>>172769971
lolwut

>>172769971
Is this some PCB meme

>>172770580
>he doesn't have keylogger on at all times to record his roguelike adventures and make sure time travelers aren't using his computer while he's sleeping

Why are most Roguelikes single-character only? Is there a Roguelike where you control a party instead, with multiple classes and all?

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>Targetting an ancient red dragon.
>It breathes fire.
>Gwaihir the shitlord comes into view.
>Gwaihir the shitlord holds you, and bullies you. You crash into the lava.
>It bullies you. It bullies you. It bullies you. You refuse to be frightened. It bullies you. It misses. It bullies you.
>You stand your ground!
>What a noble sacrifice!

>>172771325
>Why are most Roguelikes single-character only?
to be otherwise would be to be unlike rogue

>>172771380
Whem I'm farmin the mountains I just teleport as soon as i detect a birdunique

They're annoying as fug even when they're not dangerous

>>172771657
>I just teleport as soon as i detect a birdunique
That's the thing, I was fighting the dragon, i had about 100 health and this fucker clomes out of nowhere, slaps me in the ass and drops me in lava.

>>172771325
Crafting a game for one player is simpler than doing it for a party. Even summon/ally heavy games require extra thought.

But also, unless you simplified combat/inventory greatly (like with, say, Hoplite), it'd be tedious as hell to make everything fit in the true roguelike vein. Every character would take time and require input for their own action, and it'd be annoying past move 1000.

>>172771525
>>172771968
I can understand that, but are there (good) Party-based games with rogulike characteristics?

>>172754447
Not in trunk.

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>[distant polyp noises]

>>172772826
What film

>>172772826
Is that from the blair witch project
I don't remember that part

>>172772149
literally demon you fucking shill
shit like this where someone "new" happens to ask for a roguelike with certain properties while a roguelike with said characteristics is getting a lot of attention in this general is the clear sign of shill
ignored, filtered, and reported

>>172773692
but he asked for a roguelike?

>>172773863
he said "roguelike characteristics"
i.e. roguelite
you fucking shill retard

Man, these never-ending arguments are almost as dumb as the inexplicable political arguments on boards like /co/, even if they're actually related to the subject of the thread.

>>172774081
/rlg/ is modal: when it's in shitposting mode, everything that isn't boring is a roguelite.

>>172774341
boring things like cdda and demon can be roguelites too though

>>172774081
The problem with /co/ is that it's the most SJW board.

>>172773692
Demon isn't party-based but ally-based. He's looking for a game with 2 or more player characters, each potentially doing their own thing unrelated to the other.

>>172774519
Great shitpost there, fucking retard.

>>172771325
Demon.

>>172774695
Caves of Qud if you mess around with domination and beguiling, I guess? Bonus points if you abuse wishing and ctrl-Xing.

>172707420
>172710217
To me, it seems to hint at a far more hideous possibility: That neither way of designing a game is inherently wrong, and it's possible to have fun in NetHack as well as in Brogue.

>>172774747
>Ouch! That really hurt!

>>172771325
Like, directly control more than one character? Not really. There's a whole bunch where you can recruit allies that follow you around and help you, but you're still only directly puppeteering the PC.
There's Liberal Crime Squad, but that's more an Oubliettelike than a Roguelike.

>>172775068
Here you go faggot:
>>172707420
>>172710217

>>172763873
>Light-sided crown with oppressor
why tho

>>172775902
It still works versus many other things but dark resistant/immune demons. I gotta admit that my party could have been balanced better that run; shikome (new late dark demon with lich touch that can move quickly) did give my party some trouble, but I still managed to recruit one of them.

>>172776210
If you're weak against dark, it means that the things you take the most damage from are usually resistant to Oppressor. It doesn't make sense to use it.

>>172776769
Eh. I just like it and use it in most of my melee characters. I guess that character could have had a better ability set.

Reminder Unity games have hardcoded corporate spyware even the game devs using the engine can't disable, and you computer is being logged every second you play Demon.

>>172775902
how about a light-typed version of oppressor called benefactor or some shit

>>172777218
if you havent done anything wrong you have nothing to hide :^)

>>172777218
uh oh they'll know I jack off to anime trap porn!
but yea ferret should port his shit to a "real roguelike" language

>>172776943
You had bloodlust, so I can't imagine that you were having any SP problems, so a buff cantrip could have taken Oppressor's place. Unless you already had every available buff in your party. Bright Blood may have also worked, but that would likely be TOO much healing. I can't believe there isn't a speed cantrip ability yet.

>>172778021
>Bright Blood
I am not even sure what that is available from yet. I guess I will need to figure that out soon.

>>172778310
It seems to only appear in Actaeon's modifier. Somebody go bitch at Ferret.

Prequel updated

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>>172777218
>graphics

>>172779892
what a cute awoo
would pet

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>>172779971

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"Just stairho..."
Madness ID is FUN, but i think this is my end lads.

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>>172780384

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>>172780384
>>172780718
You MONSTER

So there's literally no reason to use daggers or shortswords on Crawl if you have a rapier that's better and enough skill since they all have the same mindelay?

>>172781046
Daggers get stabbing bonuses.

>>172781046
I guess you could say that most weapons are bloat.

>>172781046
Yes.
>>172781294
That caps at the same place all other weapons do. It doesn't take much EXP to cap the bonus for a rapier.

>>172779892
Name one (1) (male) roguelike that is real

>>172781046
there's literally no reason to use a shortsword, falchion, long sword, scimitar, great sword, hand axe, war axe, battleaxe, whip, club, mace, flail, morningstar, dire flail, spear, trident, halberd, scythe, glaive, or quarterstaff if you have a better basetype weapon and enough skill

>>172783643
>That caps at the same place all other weapons do. It doesn't take much EXP to cap the bonus for a rapier.

wrong

It takes twice as much skilling of non-dagger Short Blades to get the same bonus. If your Dex is low enough, you might never hit the cap -- not that you necessarily need to.

>>172785731
To hit the damage bonus cap (which is +30 BEFORE the stab multiplier is applied) with a rapier requires 27 shortblades + stealth and 25 dex, or 22.33 in both skills and 30 dex

a dagger gets double the damage bonus and so reaches the cap with half the total dex * stabbing skill

the formula's in the OP image from last thread >>172536932

>tfw only realizing how good throwing nets are now

>>172786846
how long until removed

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>>172787363
I was once happy and naive
Now with 0.20 chances I find myself finally becoming bitter like some other people here
>Ogre M&F aptitude dropped to -1
>no disc of storms, literally all rods gone, wand of heal, bloaste, teleport
>why even bother having X if Y can do it too
It didn't have to be this way...

I'm also so lost in ADOM.
Where do you go after your initial quest?
What's the difference between all these dungeons?
Is there some kind of infinite dungeon I can just go to from the beginning and dungeon crawl that shit?

>>172789236
>Is there some kind of infinite dungeon I can just go to from the beginning and dungeon crawl that shit?
There is Infinite Dungeon in the lower right corner of the map, but it is corrupting.

>>172787815
Items that don't have any alternatives got removed too.

What do you guys think about oni being able to appear in Rush's Sanctum? Is there anything wrong with it? Unlike raiju, oni are impossible to link with if you're underleveled.

>>172790675
Wait, they can appear that early? That's pretty wild. Even the buruburu link can be risky.

>>172789236
ADOM is a grindlike. You do what you want to do, not what you're forced to do like in shitty roguelikes.

>>172787815
remember the good ol days with rods that held a ton of different spells
remember the good ol days stalkers, fulsome distillation, and evaporation, which let you polymorph mennas into a relatively harmless ophan and do other fun and goofy shit while also providing a use for bad pots which have been reduced to bloat in new versions
remember item destruction
remember fun spells that were removed for being too fun
remember 27 levels of the dungeon

>>172791405
I actually fucking loathe item destruction and for once am glad that shit got canned forever

I'm confused,
nemelex powers use invocation
but decks themselves still use evocation?

>>172789236
You know how after you did the carpenter/druid quest, the guy told you "all this evil is coming from some really foreboding caves off to the west"? Maybe you should go west and look for some foreboding caves.

>>172791560
As do I. Most of the other changes can fuck off, though.

First for chei

>>172791863
No, decks use invoc as well.

Also they were removed as random item drops and can now only be obtained through nemelex

>>172792228
You die...

>>172792228
second for transmutations no longer caring about cheistats

>doing desolation of salt
>as an octopode
>while under Gozag's wrath
wew...

how about a gofast god that reduces stats

>>172793645
>take it hard
I just realized that hedgehogs eat snails

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I don't have any sources of lifeleech, drain, or regen, but I should be fine, right?

>>172794198
You might be okay. That link has been nerfed a little over the versions, anyway.

I am sure the easiest means of doing the Actaeon link are to do the following things:
>pick orb start
>use transpose soul to get bane + demon's mien
>laugh as most of the hounds barely have any HP left, if still alive

>>172794420
The easiest means of doing the actaeon link is picking Heart/Fire.

The hardest part of the link now is choosing which one to get because artemis is fucking shit now. I'm thinking of going actaeon here just for a chance at the meme blood passive since I have revelation.

>>172794198
Yes just go in a corridor. You also have flesh eater what are you talking about.

>>172794420
Easiest way is getting a wisp and having him tank literally everything while you and your other two demons along with Actaeon guard the rear

>>172793645
literally Sp^Dith

>>172792495
I'm sorry, what are you talking about? The last official version, .14, didn't change Transmutations at all.

>>172795313
>stone soup
>"""""official""""
if you arent playing linley's crawl you aren't playing crawl

Alright, I got Actaeon, but since the only thing he has that I care about is his modifier, I should find something to fuse him with. Is there anything between now and Python that is worth fusing Actaeon with?

Remind me why Royal Jellies are still in the game?
Sure it can be eaten by anyone, but so can Pizza.
Item weight was axed so it's not the food of choice for weaklings like spriggans any more.
It doesn't even restore drained stats any more since that was moved to just killing shit (for whatever reason)

This is even more bloat than pre-merge fruits.

>>172798602
You're right, let's remove all food and replace it with a single generic sprite.

>>172798602
>It doesn't even restore drained stats
What
Why

Those crawl changes often make sense locally, but looking at them from the side, as someone who doesn't track the individual changes, makes it look like every instance of removed bloat changes two different things to bloat.

We need mid-headroom roguelikes.

>>172798602
Flavor with bees and TRJ itself, I guess?

Last I checked in crawl-ref-discuss, I remember them actually considering doing >>172799273. Like, no joke.

>>172798602
>>172799273
>>172800448
Yeah:

https://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/mailman/message/35725014/

>>172771325
Gearhead Arena lets you assemble a party of mecha pilots. If you're good at robotics you can even roll with your own harem of ace pilot robowaifus.

>>172789236
You can talk to the NPCs, and they'll tell you where to go. Write it all down if you need to.

Here's the absolute newb guide:
1. Do village dungeon or druid dungeon to either get the healing or herbalism skill.
2. Follow the quest-giver's instructions to get to to the caverns of chaos.
3. Dive into the caverns of chaos to get to dwarf town. Talk to all the NPCs there for quests and directions on what to do.

>What's the difference between all these dungeons?
They're all thematically different, have different quests, and/or have strange quirks that can make them useful or horrifyingly deadly. ADOM has shitloads of freedom on where to go, so just take some time to explore and make note of all the weird shit you find.

>>172800146
>implying anyone nowdays is going to make anything but elegant tactical resource management based abstracted hipster shit

>>172776769
>If you're weak against dark, it means that the things you take the most damage from are usually resistant to Oppressor. It doesn't make sense to use it.

Taking 25% less damage from basically everything is good anon

>>172795567
Gis are probably your best choice. Ogres and aspis may also be considered, and you'd want to get oppressor and juggernaut from the former, at the very least.

>>172801868
It only works if you can keep your HP high, and it's hard to keep your HP high if Oppressor is barely functional against the enemies that deal the most damage to you.

>>172802012
I already quit that character because a troll wraith.

>>172801819
M-maybe someone will pick up a hipstershit RL and turn it into a bloated, fun RL

>>172802140
Ah. I'm very used to playing offline at this point, albeit some of my own splats can leave behind very nasty enemies.

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S T A G
T
A
G

>>172802046
>1/10 enemy elements are strong against one of your skills
>this means the skill is bad

'no'

>tfw you macro Enter to "ff" for the first time ever for easy shooting

i'm almost erect because of how nice this is, jesus

>>172802140
what wraith

>>172802046
Dumbest reason I've read to not take oppressor
How do you (You) survive against ANY enemies that you're weak against with or without oppressor? You have to rely on your other demons obviously, or just walk away

>>172802897
I wonder what happens if you enable autothrow on tab when you're not in melee. Your cumshot will probably penetrate the roof.

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>Robe of the Twilight

I want my money back.

>>172798602
literally the only reason royal jelly is still in the game is because of beevaults that would look weird if they suddenly had pizza in them

>>172800448
that sounds like a good thing to me

having food only take up 1 space in the inventory instead of up to 5 would be a big improvement in reducing inventory management annoyance
and since food Literally Does Not Matter it's not like it would have any gameplay affects anyways

of course removing food would be better but people are for some reason still opposed to that?

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Next level strats: lure zombies from nearby office building to turrets and let the turrets kill them. When the turrets run out of ammo keep luring them to the turrets and while they are busy attacking the armored turrets reach attack with my bayonet.

>>172803329
Literally no reason to not have this

having tab move towards enemies automatically is dumb because moving towards enemies is dumb in general
the 'optimal' choice for most of the game is standing in a hallway and throwing 0skill stones at everything in the room while you wait for them to walk into your melee range

you have to treat crawl like a shitty MMO and pull aggro from one monster at a time

>>172803156
By using an ability that actually works against the largest source of damage I'm taking. If most of the damage you take is dark damage, why would you use an ability that's poor at reducing dark damage? That's like putting storm ward on a character that is resistant to electricity.

>>172803517
I think the sentiment is that people are OK with food being removed if the balance works out (spell hunger, invocations, et al). But since the devs kind of stick by the tradition of food, we might as well keep some flavor to it, right?

Personally, I'd want either removal of food or the creation of a single food choice that changes flavor, a la pizza/fruit, just with meat/bread's satiation. If either thing happened, I'd be OK. As it stands (in trunk), food is just not fun at all -- it doesn't help that the only flavor is relegated to the least filling food item.

>>172803928
Stupid or just retarded? You'll take hardly any damage at all if you hang back or run away against dark resistant enemies. The most damage you'll actually take is against enemies that you willing engage. Add up all the different types that oppressor does work against and that far outweighs the total damage you'll take from a single element. Not to mention that storm ward only works against electricity and nothing else, while oppressor works against everything BUT dark.

>>172804478
Many light and dark attacks are impossible to avoid as long as you're within line of sight. And if you take enough damage, oppressor stops working completely. You're average damage taken needs to be as low as possible. Reducing a small portion of your total damage taken by a large amount doesn't make sense over using something that reduces all of your damage by a medium amount, or just using something other than damage reduction.

Will going to Mount Olympus result in anything special if you're playing a demigod?

>>172805892
Your parent's artefact is guaranteed to drop when you kill them. Hope you aren't playing with randarts.

>>172805892
Yes.

Youre dad and/or mom has a 100% chance to drop her permacursed artifact.

>>172805954
Hope you ARE playing with randarts if you're poseidon or aphrodite or something

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>>172806004
>Youre dad ... has a 100% chance to drop her permacursed artifact

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>>172806654
>tfw no loki parentage
>you will never gender-bender-shapeshift into a animal, get knocked up, and give birth to a beautiful magic 8-legged horse

is lucky aid any good or is it just rng horse shit

>>172808501
It seems decent for what it is, and can be put on just about anything. It is especially powerful when you're doing a heroism link, given the healing bonus from a heal stone is greater than that of ordinary healing.

>>172808501
I think you need at least two people with it for it to be good. There's sort of this critical point where the average benefit of using it breaks even then starts going up as it sustains you longer, which in turns gives you more uses.

that's slighlty more resists than your average ring

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>>172809725
fuck

>playing incursion
>one of the random perks I get at start is telekinesis
>allows me to apportate most objects in sight
>allows me to shoot force bolts for knockback+huge damage
>allows me to hit with my natural attack at range
>allows me to grapple at range, with full bonus from feats and subbing in Wis/Int for Dex/Str
>don't even need LoS for anything but the bolts
>allows me to do all this at no cost but time
>only equivalent is a costly spell that is fairly high level and requires mana per use
And I thought Whitefire was cool. Currently thinking up a way to abuse the natural attack+grapple thing. Maybe it'd be super powerful for druids, who get reliable access to forms with great grapple bonuses and natural attacks.

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>when you're a melee character but the game decides to give you infinite clairvoyance for free anyways

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>dump stat is strength

I so regret this. I also regret not choosing lucky as the meta dictates; non-lucky drops are such shit it's unbelievable.

>fail Baba Yaga negotiation
>die because of shikome + dark weakness
Fug! I can't help but laugh a little, though.

>>172814447
What does baba yaga's link do?

>>172814580
She gives you a bunch of status effects like chill and panic. My character had some bad rolls over the next few turns and could not summon a single demon. I guess I really should have given up pyre rite. She's not much harder than the other unique negotiators; I had a few demons I wouldn't have had any problem sacrificing, anyway. I know that she spawns with a civatateo and a shikome, at the very least.

>>172813864
wat class

emit dark/light absolutely destroys wisps

>>172815602
I'll tell you when I reach 40. If I reach 40.

>>172798602

Because they're food. Food is good. Next question please.

>>172809368
this guy gets it

two lucky charm/lucky aiders gives everyone pretty much infinite SP

The issue being is that then you might have damage output problems if it's just 2 damagers vs 5 Oni or whatever

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I just got deep bites twice in rapid succession from enemies who can't even damage me. This is what I was wearing, tell me I was asking for it. What gives?

Also, in order to live the forest life do I have to just pack up and move to a bog for the salt water and clay? Is it even worth it or should I just stick to the city?

>>172816813
>all this low coverage armor
You could park a deathroller between those armor pieces

>>172803385
Didn't stop them from removing cheese and still keeping that rat vault and replacing it with pizza.
What a horrible day to be alive.

>>172816761
Is lucky charm really useful?

>>172817705
It mainly helps with ruk/log throwers. Aside from that, you probably shouldn't bother with it.

>>172818208
But in that case, it's basically a refresh that costs 5 less and takes a turn, since the impact ranged attacks only cost 10 less than their pierce counterparts.

>>172778021
>Bright Blood
is this even good
it says it just improves natural HP regen and maxHP regen by 200%

>>172818561
It works out to +1% HP regen per turn. For comparison, the regen status is +3.3% HP per turn.

On the topic of healing, it should be noted that Malleable and Infection don't affect the HP cost of Draw Wounds. Two healers that each have Draw Wounds and Malleable could effectively apply a 25 power heal to each other as a free action every turn.

>[Wake me up]

>>172815602
Splatted. It was a spectre blue mage.

Got killed by Vallach today.

>>172820605
Charliss always kills me

>>172820847
You fucking suck.

>>172820605
I have yet to see this dude.

>>172821031
Just chill on 950' for a while.

>>172820605
wat gam

Will I ever stop being bad at roguelikes, /rlg/?

>>172821227
Sil.
>>172821356
No.

>>172821356
ONE
DAY
YOU
MAY

>>172821356
What games are you playing? What are you doing incorrectly?

>>172820493
RIP
I don't know why a bluemage would prioritise wis and dex over str though
usully those two are my dump stats. wizard types only care about str/int/con plus a bit of chr for fearsave purposes

>>172821702
Nethack. Doing stupid things and then dying in like 1000 turns.

>>172821710
I was at like, -9 with all the modifiers before game start, and I didn't even realize the point-buy system was meaningful below the minimum 8. So when I figured no need to invest 6 points in strength for an effective increase of 2, what actually happened (I think) was that I doomed myself to 3 strength until I could scrounge up like 6 stat increases from somewhere.

I won't get fooled again.

>>172822434
And still you got a 300% xp modifier extremely suboptimal combo over level 30, with 3 str to carry things.

How do you do it, anon?
How do you muster the autism to do such a thing?

>>172822586
Because it's there.

*dies*

What was the name of the slex server again
I feel like hurting myself

Blue mage really doesn't want to be a spectre in any case.

Breath spells are a big deal for bluemage, and their damage is a fraction of your current HP, so you probably want something tanky like half-titan, ent, or hades demigod

>>172823674
but the p-p-passwall!

>>172826396
You could try playing a better class like grey-mage

They get passwall lategame from Craft or Death book 4

>>172826674
but the imaginary l-l-ladder cred

>>172827439
>but the imaginary l-l-ladder cred
>on a offline game
Naga you serious
you can simply just edit whatever you want in the ladder by making up the game

I mean my android rune knight win is there in the ladder and I savescummed it like crazy

offline wins don't count for e-cred

>>172827616
did you savescum mumo

>>172827767
you can't savescum online you idjit

Why did you think I played on server for the dynahack conduct and mumo

if you play PCB for e-cred you should termcast it

Every fisherman can buy a 1 ton marlin and say that he caught it to get in the guinness world records

I mean of course if you were a decent human being that doesn't savescum compulsorily like sage that could still be done
but you'd need credentials
like sage
but would you really resist the temptation
would you resist the temptation to savescum after you died to the serpent of chaos after 30 hours of grinding *healing* and he doubleturned you with rockets

Do you have the IRON WILL to do that over and over again

Because I sure as hell don't and if you do that's neat but I'll stick to online play

All I'm seeing is that PCB is a terrible game for terrible people, except for sage but we all hate him for being a goodplayer™ at terrible games.

>>172827616
it's not like there are cash prizes or anything
the honor system works just fine when the only thing that's on the line is pointless internet attention from like 5 people
you're probably the only person autismal enough to actually go out of their way to cheat for a reward like that
you're just projecting your own degeneracy on everyone else and assuming they all think the same things as you

There's nothing wrong with savescumming if you die because of RNG.

>>172828529
>you're probably the only person autismal enough to actually go out of their way to cheat for a reward like that
BEST conduct game in the last 30 years anon

>>172828574
savescumming is awful and anyone that does it is fucking trash

>>172829312
I don't think you're trash anon.

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>>172829667
Yeah?
Well I don't care what you think.

>>172829748
But why else would you try so hard to impress me?

i've savescummed elona by crawling back up or whatever, and also by ending the process if I fucked something up without dying
and dda a couple times including when a turret on my deathmobile shot at a mininuke in a hatch and blew me the fuck up
qud too i think
I think I messed around with backing up DCSS save files on an offline install but it never really stuck

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>>172829830

I'm not trying to impress you anon
I don't want your pity
I'm trying to impress the people that want me to stop posting so that they will love me through my achievements
that won't stop them from wanting me to get the fuck out but it will show them I'm better than them

now let's get back to roguelikes

>>172829962
I liked you from the beginning, even if I did cause you to flip out that one time.

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>>172830080
STOP SHOWING ME AFFECTION I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT
Did I hear lucky snotling tourist

I heard lucky snotling tourist

>>172830221
Good luck anon! Do your best!

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Well that was fast.

Time to play something fun.

>>172830693
You got farther than most of us would with a character such as that. Good job anon.

>>172831359
you're doing this on purpose to piss me off aren't you

>Started playing PCB a couple of weeks ago
>Had a savefile named PLAYER that was a level 43 Demigod of Artemis Archer
>Started a new game to see what the fuss with Snotling Tourist is
>Overwrote my Archer

Well that was dumb of me.

>>172832050
Oh cool I have an extra PCB window open in the background with the Archer still loaded. To be honest I'm a little disappointed, I was almost hoping the character would be gone so I wouldn't be forced to continue and splat against something dumb.

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>>172830221
>Snotling
>Tourist
Why would you subject yourself to that?

>>172823674
I wish Blue Mages were bit better.
One thing I threw around in my mind for R was giving them ability to throw a 'reflection' on themselves, so whatever they cast on themselves is cast on you. Might be bit too gimmicky.

I've never really used bows in Crawl.
Is poison a good brand for a longbow?
Should I even be using bows?

>>172832248
They're pretty busted, but not as busted as you'd like them to be. Poison is a great brand. You should probably learn to melee first, and pickup bows if you find a really good one. Unless you're a centaur. Xbows are probably better, or atleast were when haste was around.

>>172832429
I'm actually using mainly melee, but Trog kept gifting me longbows so I decided to see what the fuss was about.
Pretty satisfied so far, I have to say. Thanks senpai.

While I'm asking questions, is it worth it to try and rebrand a +9 executioner's axe of electrocution? Got a spare scoll of branding, and I'm thinking this axe would be more effective with speed or freeze or something

>>172832580
Elec is perfectly fine. I think someone ran the numbers back when and elec was still higher than the other brands, albeit probably less consistent.