/sdbg/ Super Dragon Ball General

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Buu Goo

Never edge for more than 3 hours

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Buutts

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WHAT CHARACTERS AND WHAT-IFS FROM HEROES WOULD YOU WANT IN XENOVERSE!

LIST AS MANY AS YOU LIKE!!

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CaC pack with friends

>>171014225
>two little lines change everything
Muh

>>171014346
ssj2 future gohan
ssj3 future gohan
ssg future gohan
ssgss future gohan

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This .webm is awful, but the combo is also not that great because the Kamehameha stops working if their stamina recovers during it and doesn't hit at all if it recovers before it hits.

But it looks so good.

>>171014357
>showing UI

ewww brah we got a ui-less mod that's a toggle too. should use it so screens like these look better

>>171014628
Is 20x Kamehameha semi usable now? I've seen so many webms of people actually managing to land it, but I haven't tried on PC yet.

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>>171014525
Ya idjit, SSJ2 Future Gohan is from Shin Budokai 2 and those last two aren't even in Heroes.

Give me some pleasure.

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>>171014628
Now that x20 work fine it will never feel special again when it hits
Feels bad man.

>>171014987
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6HqOUALPRs

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reminder, that listening to EUROBEAT increases your skilllevel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xatvtnIUu2g

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAgXOgMKxnI

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>>171015693

>>171015847
>She's fat!
Fixed that for you.

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>>171015985
But anon

>>171015985
mmm warm fat cheeks~

>>171014750
>Disables steam ui
>have VSR so none of the recording software can take anything higher resolution screenshot other than your native resolution

yeah no

>>171016140

ok? you have a 1080 screenshot you uploaded so why not just use fraps to take a 1080 screenshot like everyone else?

it's not like you upped a 4k screenshot or something, or are you telling me your native resolution is NOT 1080?

>>171014346
Kuriza
King Cold

all fridges with all forms

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>>171014108
What about it?

>>171016510
I m not them

>>171016705

so then why did you reply?

>>171016857
because for people who's native resolution isn't 4k and want to up 4k pics this is a problem and I wanted to bring this up because why not

>>171017112

how many 4k screenshots have been displayed on this general?

>>171014346
Kid Goku
Kid Krillin
Kid Chi-Chi
Teen Chi-Chi
Roshi
General Blue
Mercenary Tao/Cyborg Tao
King Piccolo
Chiaotzu
Supreme Kai Shin
Transformed Zarbon
Frieza 2nd Form
Frieza 3rd Form
Mecha-Frieza
King Cold
King Vegeta
Android 19
Android 20
Semi-Perfect Cell
Dabura
Super Buu Gotenks Absorbed
Super Buu Gohan Absorbed
Tagoma
Shisami
Toma
Fasha
GT Vegeta
GT Gohan
GT Goten
Uub
Majuub
Super Baby Vegeta
Oceanus Shenron
Salza
Dore
Neiz
Android 13
Super Android 13
Android 14
Android 15
Bido
Kogu
Zangya
Bujin
Shun Shun
Haru Haru
Psidevilman
General Bon
Putine
Gravy
Makyouka Demigra
Mechikabura
Salsa
Adult Gotenks
SSJ3 Vegeta
SSJ3 Gohan
SSJ4 Gohan
SSJ3 TP Trunks
SSJ3 Broly
SSJ4 Broly
SSJ Pan(Not in Heroes yet, but I want it)
Xeno oku
Xeno Vegeta
Xeno Gohan
Xeno Goten
Xeno Bardock
Xeno Vegito
Xeno Dabura
Demon God Dabura
Darkness Towa
Demon God Towa
Super Mira
Time Breaker King Vegeta

I don't expect most of these to happen, but this would be my ideal list.

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Reminder to fight in harmony

>>171017272
I think there are atleast 4 people here who post and play regularly in 4k

plus me

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Remove sluts

Add clothes

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pafu pafu

>>171017886
>i'll never be married with chichi
It hurts
Why the retarded monkey has the best of lucks?

>>171017681
Put pants on the slut to hide the butt!

>>171017995
Chi-chi was in her prime during the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. She ran downhill super fast after that.

Now Bulma was the real prize DB waifu, stayed hot all her life. Total GMILF.

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>>171014807
Apparently it's usable now, but from what I remember trying to use it I haven't been able to.

Maybe I didn't try to stamina break beforehand, which is 100% necessary to make it work.

>>171015338
You can always feel special about being my first time!

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>>171017995
jealous?

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>>171017437

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>>171018585
Cute balls.

>>171018839
Yes, a lot, thank you for asking

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>>171019020
I am sorry then

>>171019243
L-LEWD

>>171019243
>Raped her

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>>171019327
>>171019301

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really made me think

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Finally making some progress on this.

>>171019612
Im still bad at hands, im sorry...

>>171019612
Fucking incredible

>>171019612
Oh shit, that looks awesome

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>>171019612
Looking good

>>171019761
Dont worry man I think they look good and of course practice makes perfect

>>171019612
Damn dude, nice work as always!

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>>171019612
DUUUUUUUUUUDE

Lookin sick, keep up the good work. Inspiring me a bit

>>171019612
>>171019761
Looks good. If I had money I'd comission something
>bad at hands
Can't say that, but guess artists know their fallencies better than a common spectator.

>>171019612
>added a saiyan out of pity
Once a faggot, always a faggot

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Decided I wanted to delete and remake a buufu, probably generic and the clothes aren't final but eh

>>171020248
That is clearly a human

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>>171019612
pretty good my man

>>171019612
>Included a Human
why
Looks great!

>>171019612

oh shit! this is looking great!

>>171020291
I like it, Brown is not a common color and her style is unique at least to me I give it an 8/10. Also what is the name's origin ?.

>>171021136
There are 3 brown buufus in the general though. Chocolate themed buufu in general are fairly common, not saying it is a bad thing though.

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>>171021136
Brown isn't really too unique, at least in this general, but the name comes from Ferrero Rocher chocolates

Was gonna save it for Xenoverse 3, but I decided I'll just use it now since I wasn't a huge fan of my previous Buufu

>>171019612
Good job, makes my art look dumb by comparison. Props.

>>171019612
wow, amazing!

if I may make a comment though, Tea is supposed to look younger/less serious

those hands are are pretty neat looking to me

>>171020090
I'd totally commission as well if they did commissions

>>171019612
Will ypu add my fridge?

>>171021285
You may be right but I rarely see them and that's why I said at least to me. And I only know about Cocoa and Toufe.

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>>171021605
How could you forget the baby brown buu

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>>171019612
Can't wait for the malejin one ...haha

>>171021542
>>171021285
Also I meant in this general since most Buu' are either default pink, blue, or maybe yellow. my mistake

>>171021793
You're right. How could I forget 1 of PC's really mean person who also lusts after Gohan. So that's four in all. Looks like I was wrong. So does that mean Yellow is the most uncommon in the general ?.

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wen

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Post 'em

>>171022056
I'd say something like Black/grey would be more rare.

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>>171022201
Never.

>>171022201
>1/4 saiyan
Never
Though you'd think saiyan genes are extremely dominant enough to compensate for that, but they'd still never use that excuse

is the recoome tournament still going on?

>>171019612
Its still shit, i wanted to be put in the majin one

>>171022310
Toriyama said she was capable of SSJ, she just never had the right rage trigger.

Even still, she does technically go SSJ in BoG.

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>>171022261
postin em

>>171022398
well being a faggot won't get you in any.

>>171022276
You're right once more. I forgot about Domencia.

>>171022503
>implying i want to anymore after seeing how shit it turned out

>>171022673
if you don't care stop crying about it

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>>171019612
>Giving Babakyu two swords
>mfw freezas can't even use sword moves

Lookin' fucking great bro. Don't push yourself too hard now.

>>171019612
Babakyu looks like he's about to fuck up hugh man

lullaby punch+meteor burst is too broken

>>171021793
>Titty monster buu bullies a cup buu.jpg

>>171023582
>a cup
she's more stacked than that
closer to a C cup

>>171022201
Heroes will do it sooner or later.
Maybe as a what if if any of the Dark Dragon Balls end up in a GT character.

>>171023880
Which buufus are stacked? What cup sizes are they? Majin powers aside

>>171024131
>Majin powers aside
Flat as a board because then they're just Kid Buu.

>>171023467
I guess he doesn't like hoomins

>>171022261

what move?

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>>171022261

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post lore friendly armored saiyans

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>>171024491
Rug beater
Super Electric Strike

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>>171024852
Sure.

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>>171022201
with that gt design
i hope never

>>171024990
Uub was a mistake

>>171024990
You think her inheriting Gohan's appreciation for Moe Howard would look better?

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>>171024852
We need more battlesuits in the next update

>>171025139
yes
everything looks better than the slutty clothes from gt

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>>171024852
Heyo

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>>171024852
I'm lore friendly

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>>171024852
>>171024945
>>171025267
>>171025428
>>171025453
When are Saiyan "people" going to be forced out of the general?

>>171024854

wtf? I just used that move and I don't see this pose in it at all.

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>>171025514
When you can do something about it other than bitch and moan.

The only walking soda can who could do anything about the Saiyans was Frieza, and he fucking died.

>>171025514
There's that fridge again, being evil like all other fridges.

>>171025553
He lied to you, it's part of Future Super Saiyan.

>>171024852
raoh pls go

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>>171024852
I'd love the excuse to post my CaCs

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>>171025514
Should remove majins first. Folks bitch and moan about how evil we are yet don't do a damn thing about these things whose name LITERALLY MEANS DEVIL.

>>171025778
dat gap under Slime's panties...

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>>171025778
>they have it in their name
>all they do is dress like sluts

>Every canon fridge so far was an absolute dick
>they aren't named 'devil', but every Fridge CaC out there tries so hard to look like one

BEAT IT

>>171025696
delet this

>>171019612
Why is there a human?

>>171026048
Spiked armor is beneficial! It means you can punch them with any part of your body!

>>171026048
>they aren't named 'devil', but every Fridge CaC out there tries so hard to look like one

LIES! lies and slander!

>>171025676

damn that sucks so majins can't do it then.

>>171025778
>Fridges are always evil dicks who want to genocide one race or the other
>Majins just wanna chill and eat candy

Remove thyself.

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>>171026338
Genocide is terrible. Eradicating a species means eradicating a possible form of income after all.

>>171025553
I swear to god it's in the wind up of the move

I could be wrong, I got my screenshot ages ago

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Good good, the inferior races are fighting eachother

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>>171025778
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zqbqu26pmeA

>Demons wearing the msks of angels
>"for the ske of justice destroy all evil right now"

Majins did nothing wrong

>>171026338
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzF6GEEva-s

>>171026624
Says the most blatantly evil majin...

And y'know that masks are meant to HIDE your true face. You're still a demon.

>>171026554

nope! I recorded the move and rewatched it like 10 times to find it so I could screenshot it and I don't see that pose at all.

>>171025778
Thank you for getting rid of this one, it tried to rape me. It thought I was a cross dressing woman too, what a dumb sludge.

>>171026771
Well, there we go then, I guess only Saiyans are capable of dabbing

>>171026530
And of course, if it isn't about genociding them, it's about enslaving them and making money off their suffering.

>>171026709
That only happened the one time and he still left a few alive. (One of them even being left alive on purpose)

The Majin race as a whole only came from Buu after his evil side was purged, destroyed and turned into a little indian fuccboy anyway, so this ain't all that relevant.

>>171027010
Making money off of lesser species ain't evil.
It's smart.

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>>171026715
no
the mask is a metaphor for our good intentions despite what we are called

>>171027010
I mean Frieza was responsible for like, what, two that we know of? And one of them was completely undone and in the other one he left at least four alive.

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>Nobody wants to fight me today except DOOMSDAY

>>171027106
Only a member of such a truly evil species would call other species "lesser species"

>>171027174
Both times he went for full genocide and not letting a single one alive. He's just incompetent, another trait shared among all fridges.

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>>171025778
>>171026048
>>171026338
Reminder that there is literally nothing wrong with being evil.

I hope there's no smelly red headed Onions around here because if so I have something to say to them

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>>171024852

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>>171019612
Holy fuck, that looks awesome man! Thanks a bunch for squeezing me in, you get Pepsi for life now!
Pepsi Co. assumes no liability for any medical charges that may ensue from this offer. Not valid in PA, VI, MI, AZ or DC. All rights reserved. Suck it, Coke.

>>171025778
>spawned from a crazed, god killer level neigh-immortal force of chaos
>every single member of the race has the potential to become that very same god killer imp

Remove Majins now

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>>171027138
>>171027581

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>>171027581
Except for the part where you're evil.

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>>171024852
I still don't really know what it means to be lore-friendly. Do I need Vegito's hair to apply?

>>171027106
hey, stop being like that, you are giving us a bad name

The dragon balls on mission 4 with kill patrollers was fixed? I try 8 times and I dind't get a single dragon ball

>>171028152
Why is this race so cute and sexy and perfect?

>>171028485
Not all of them are.

>>171027864
>every single member of the race has the potential to become that very same god killer

has any of the /dbg/s killed any gods?

Calamellus no need to apply I know you wouldn't be out after Spats if there were any gods in her timeline left

>>171027859
That's actually a sweet pic of her expression.

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>>171028485
I am the only perfect being here

>>171028152
>Age 852
>Not being evil
Get with the times, pinky.

>>171028313
Your race already has a bad name thanks to Chilled, King Cold, Frieza, Cooler, Kuriza and Frost.

You know, literally all 6 existing members of your evil, malicious, only-one-deserving-of-genocide race.

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>>171028485
did you mean to quote this race?

>>171028697
Kuriza was not evil, he's just a kid!

>>171028589
Berryl briefly reached SSJG in her backstory.

Also if everyone counts the main XV story as cannon we're all at least on the level where a serious fight with Beerus isn't instantly fatal.

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>>171028485
It is a mystery.

>>171028916
Delicious

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>>171028485
Fuck if I know

But I know i want all dem buufus

>>171027320
i know this feel

>>171029056
You seem to just want anything with a vagina lately.

You're like Tea but with tits.

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>>171028221
Do what sayians did. Clear planets and fight for the fun of it. Don't be one of those soft "someone laughed at me and that made me go super sayian" weirdos. Beat and Note are more sayian like than some people in this thread.

>>171029056
Pic not related ?

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>>171028485

>>171029153
>Beat and Note are more sayian like than some people in this thread.
Shame they're not Saiyans

>>171029128
Agreed, but she is not as charming since this side of her just came out of no where.

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>>171029128
Last saturday caused the flood gates to just burst wide open

>>171029153
y-yeah pic not related

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>>171029358
That's what makes those other Saiyans so shameful I suppose.

They're 100% Saiyan but also 100% human.

>>171029590
This shit is adorable

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>>171029128
Wait, Tea has tits? IS HE REALLY A SHE?!

LOAD UP THE PICKUPS, BOYS! IT'S PURGIN' TIME!!!!

>>171029590
Broly should wipe the shit from his head, that's not sanitary.

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>>171028680
I am with the times, and being evil is almost as bad as being a Fridge.

>>171028485
Modern Buus just wanna have fun and probably punch your face.

>>171029421
>tea
>charming

>>171029590
Why did she shit on Broly's head

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>>171029590
>200% monkey

>>171029749
>>171029785
Please do not bully Note's tail.

>>171029720
No, Tea certainly does NOT have tits

>>171029765
>Modern Buus just wanna have fun and probably punch your face.
I'm ok with both

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>>171029765
Sounds like someone hates fun

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>>171029994
I have more fun than you ever will.

>Super Vanishing Ball will never be good

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>>171029749

>>171029767
>Best fridge
>Not Charming

>>171030264
But it is good.
REALLY good.

>>171030264
Super Vanishing Ball is great, though. And I'm saying that as someone who hated it because it was better in XV1.

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Shocker

>>171030343
It's more of his constant thirst being admirable, honestly

>>171030485
>>171030620
I just miss the XV1 version.

I'm a nostalgic sack of shit.

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>>171030343
Excuse you and your entire soon-to-be-extinct race?

>>171030630
wow hes good

>>171030803
yeah, that's definately it

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>>171030753
Yep, that's how I felt. I never really gave it a chance until someone else convinced me to.

I think it was Rette, but I'm a dumb.

>>171030780
hey, don't be rude to that very fine person

>>171030630
I know, I too also wonder why the entity known as "Player #2" is so obsessed with the numeral known as "2" chose to come in second. It really is interesting.

>>171030709
And that's part of why he is the best fridge.

>>171030780
Your thirst is weird, you only seem to go after females who are already taken. That or ripple. You go after ripple a lot. If I didn't know any better I would say that you have a thing for Ripple.

>>171030630
>not even cheating rechow managed to get 1st place
lol

>>171031454
>rechow
>not cheating
im dbnews

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>>171030867
how do i get that good?

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>>171031740

Gotta break all the rules.

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Beet's Beets

>>171031946
cute Bee

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>>171031946

>>171031740
He bought the Collector's Edition!

>>171013998

I still don't know who that girl is on the heroes poster

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>>171031946

>>171032902
Cancer

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>>171019612
Looks immaculate! I think you have perfectly captured everyone's personality! Thank you again for doing these and please dont push yourself too hard!
>>171019761
Better at hands than me! Looks great

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>>171031375
I know it's you, Ripple. You won't escape the Purge for much longer, I assure you.....

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remaking my goblin girl

can't decide on a green

>>171033341
Left looks better

>>171033341
Right looks better

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>>171032934

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>>171028485

>>171033341
Go for the right, it's less eye searing.

>>171033341
Easily the right one

>>171033341
yellow

>>171033437
>tfw I'm retarded and forgot which is left and which is right

>>171033341
Go with the darker variation of green, it blends a bit better and brings out theyes

>>171033341
This is one of the instances where darker is better

>>171027670
Well, what would you tell them? Assuming, hypothetically that they were here.

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>>171031931
>>171032194
I am good kid though
I cant break rules...

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>>171033341
>Makin' a gobbo
>not one of da biggun Boyz

Ya knoggin git!

>>171033549
>>171033678
>>171033680
>>171033814
>>171033837

thanks

>>171033437
>>171033739

it happens, thanks anon

>>171033690

gross

>>171031946
Perfect. Another person knows the glory and power of super sayian 4.

>>171033168
Not him. Pepsi fridge.

>>171033690
>Reggie what's wrong with you.gif

>>171033893
They're very cute and I hate them

>>171034223
Thank you anon, you're being very nice.

Uh, I mean not cute!

>>171034006
goblins can be either red, green or yellow

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>>171031946
Beet x Unyen SSJ4 yuri doujin when?

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>not using the hyperbolic time chamber to increase your dancing skills 10-fold

Are you guys even trying

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>>171038462
>implying I don't know how to boogie

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>>171038462
I know how to get down

>>171038462
>>171038719
What skill is that anyways.

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>>171038462
My dancing is unmatched.

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We dance posting?

>>171038972
Asabi is using energy zone, I'm using position shift.

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>>171038462
My dance level is pretty big, why would I need to 10-fold it

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>>171038462
>implying i need to train more to improve my dance skills

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>>171038462
Not only do I dance, but I also stay clean.

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THREAD, EAT A SENZU BEAN

>>171043889
It's no good, the thread has jobbed to Freeza and now we need to wait for Goku to show up.

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>>171019612

Looking great, thanks a lot for including Celcia. It really wouldnt be complete without based Pepsi Fridge.

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How will Hiney ever recover

>>171044284
We already knew that Berryl's been sleeping with Roman Reigns behind her back. Hiney just puts on her best smile for the ring, an excellent performer, even though she was never quite the same after she got crushed by Roman in the title match.

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>>171038462

Bitch, i was born to dance.

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Fresh OC

>>171045090
Good stuff

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>>171045090
YAMETE!!!!

But really, thank you, Parsa looks pretty cute here

>>171045090
Looks like a sexier Videl
I like it

>>171045892
Nice painting of Parsa off to the right

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Its me Burt
the one who is most handsomest in the land
how are you all on this dead thread?

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>>171045090
Want some fresh fish? So fresh it still has the hair on it.

>>171046016
no insulting my wife

>>171046125
Trying to finish what I am doing so I can go and start playing DBO with all of you guys. That is IF you guys are still playing ?.

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Is Cocoa wrestling right, Hiney?

>>171046471
Champa or Parsa ?

>>171046517
Now knock her out with the Superman Punch and fuck Berryl. That's how wrestling works.

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>>171046487
I am playing it and will
its a good game for me
but right now I am watching wrasslin
will probably hop on though

>>171046816
parsa_

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Hey guys what's going on in this thread--

O-Oh. I-I guess I can't blame people for wanting to exterminate us...

>>171019612
>that Jalid
Absolutely amazing.

>>171045090
No. I looove Chicken McNuggets.

Everyone stop doing what you're doing and play ultimate Butōden

>>171047243
no

>>171047354
Do it its fun

>>171047446
I don't like doing new things

>>171047243
Maybe

I'm about to go to bed

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>>171044468
Don't invlove me in your wrestle memes, I won't understand anything that isn't 90s WWF, Jushin Liger, or Ultimate Muscle

>>171047802
nigga how old are you you fucking gramps

>>171047243
why

I want to fuck every female CaC that uses the west supreme kai hair. They are the best.

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Why dont shalot and lima have the power to shrink people?

>>171029252
>discord white

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>>171048778
That would mean there was someone shorter than Lima, and the universe simply cannot allow that.

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>>171048778
>>171049185
delete

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Webms are fun to make. I should do this more often.

>>171047996
It's fun

>>171050596
Well this is entirely too large. Gotta fix that next time.

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>lurk in the discord
>someone starts posting dragonball toys
my sides will never be the same

>>171050821
If it's within 4chan limit's it's not too large.

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>>171047802

>>171050821
wow, stop fat-shaming dodoria

>>171050890
Just the resolution I mean, doesn't need to be that big. Probably could be a smaller filesize too, for mobile users.

>>171051052
Maybe he should stop being so fat then.

>>171045892
I want to FUCK this chubby

>>171049410
I want to watch Lima streak through conton covered in cum

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>>171051263
warriors are not weak enough for that to happen.

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>>171050854
What kind of toys? I love figures. Got most of the DB SHFs myself.

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>>171047921
>wasn't born in the 90s
>probably never got to see the original US run of DBZ/DB/GT

Did you start with Kai anon?

>>171052015
>jointshit
eww

>>171052329
>Liking statueshit
Bigger eww

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>>171050596
we posting webms now? we posting webms now.

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>>171052294

>tfw born in the mid '80s

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>>171052329
>>171052460
>not owning both

Fucking plebs

>>171052294
Not him but
>borned in the mid 90's
>still watched the original db/z/gt because i live in a third world country
Feels kinda good

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>>171050596
>>171052513
postan

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>>171052989
>tfw almost everyone in /dbg/ is older than me

This has to be what it feels like to be Knives Chau

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This is my shrine dedicated to the strongest man that ever lived

>>171053340
ZA
WARUDO
XD

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fite me

>>171053710
Good to see Keltus joined too

>>171053497
Holy shit I saw one of those Broly statues for sale at a convention for around $200 missing pieces

I'll have the GoD's manga/comic (whatever you wanna call it) done late tonight (since I don't work) or tomorrow afternoon/evening for sure.

Probably won't be as good as some other art I've seen here today, in fact it definitely isn't, but you guys seem to like it, so I'll get to trying to finishing it up largely tonight or all of it.

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>>171052015
they started posting bootleg Dbz figures, talking about how they all have messed up faces like pic related

>>171053041
>Calling others plebs
>Can't pose for shit

>>171031239
Rette, Toufe or Pomatio/Babakyu.
Those ones looooove their balls.

>>171054850
Not my fault it's a god-tier PvE move.

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>>171053829
sorry its me Burt....
not the person you actually want to see...

>>171054920
That is true. It's great for farming EMs (and just EMs in general) with though can get frustrating if the AI feels like being an ass.

Part of why Purification is so great for them.

>>171054523
Wow, thats quite the piece of work.

>>171054963
That's a cute Chi-Chi.

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>>171050596
>tfw nothing recent to make into webms

How old is everybody here exactly? 26 here

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>>171052513
Sure. Don't recall if I posted this one so here ya go.

>>171054963
I knew is wasn't Keltus anyways. Brown hair. Although I was expecting Juni.

>>171055436
You don't need to know my age.
All you need to know is that I have a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.

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>>171055413
Same.
Have a bouncing buu.

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>>171055386

>>171055569
No one expects burt!

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>>171052513
Alrighty, let's try this again then.

>>171055413
Hey, I always liked that one! Nothing wrong with sticking to older stuff.

>>171055436
Just turned 26 in December.

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>>171055672
Whoa custard lay back on the sweets

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>>171055730
Seeing Chi-Chi triggers me. I still haven't been able to make that quest work.

I just moved on and forced myself to live without ever being able to dash.

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>>171024852

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>>171053710
Are there side photos? Is it actually the same hair or close to this hair style?
If so I'm getting on this bandwagon

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>>171055863
sorry
Pomatio first time quest isnt even working
our /dbg/ group it seems has bad luck with bugs it seems