Will Unity ever become a viable game engine for mainstream gaming?

:^)

Unity is the reason for so much indieshit everywhere.

>>371990994
Settle down kid this is nothing compared to the complete dumpster fire that was the Game Make era of the 00's.

>>371991797
you forget that you couldn't find an average 00's gamemaker game next to an aaa title in the largest pc distribution service of videogames

>>371990579
It is already mainstream. Have you been living under a rock? Around 80 to 90 percent of all games on steam are either using Unity3D or UDK.

The issue here is that those engines are generic and cater to a more basic structure. It forces them to use #Reflection, which introduces a massive overhead and you're basically running anything with 70% less efficiency than your own tailored engine in C++.

>>371990579
It is perfectly viable, devs are just bad at it.

>>371991976
>00's gamemaker game
>largest pc distribution service of videogames

And neither of these things existed in 00. You're obviously less than 16 years old and have never been around when modbb, patchscrolls, etc were big with daily and substantial free games uploaded every day that were made in their own engines.

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>>371990579
>tfw you can spot a unity game from a mile off

>>371991976
Then the onus is on Steam and shit like Greenlight. If there were actual quality control on platform you wouldn't be making this post.

>>371990994
it's an enabler

>>371992175
this
i find it horrendous how few unity devs know how to use its optimizing features, and how bad the artists tend to be, leaving the majority of unity games looking like early 360 games that run terribly

>>371992360
pull your head out of your ass, you're exactly proving my point
back then these games didn't coexist with the big-budget titles on the same rules like today

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;)

>>371992735
at that point might as well use game maker
add an ironic style meter

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>>371992843
I'm just very early on development.

;)

going to put some HD art.

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This is a humble reminder that learning how to develop your game from scratch (that is, not relaying in game engines such as unity and GMS) will take you closer to deploying a game and beat your competitors.

Because games and game development are so popular, and you are competing against other games for attention, it is in your interest to use more performant tools that allow you to program your game without cutting any feature or depending on closed software.

If you are interested in defeating your main oponents (those using game engines, like the ones listed in the op poster), here are some tips:

- Use efficient and performant programming languages, such as c++, rust or nim.
* cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/
* doc.rust-lang.org/book/
* nim-by-example.github.io

- Learn algorithms:
* coursera.org/specializations/algorithms

- Learn maths and physics:
* khanacademy.org/math
* khanacademy.org/science/physics

- Learn how to get the most out of your cpu:
* dataorienteddesign.com/dodmain/
* learncpp.com/cpp-tutorial/79-the-stack-and-the-heap
* fgiesen.wordpress.com/2016/08/07/why-do-cpus-have-multiple-cache-levels/

- Learn how to do graphics:
* opengl-tutorial.org/beginners-tutorials/

Good luck.

>>371993430
A good post on /v/ what is the sorcery
thanks anon shame I have no motivation to do anything

>>371994029
is a copy pasta from agdg.

What's the problem with unity. Seriously, no homerfaces and no listing bad games by bad devs who chose to work within it, what is the issue that you have with unity? What makes unity to you, unable to make a good game? What limits does it have that prove a problem to you?

>>371992514
When you don't use custom shaders, it's pretty obvious considering most shit games are made by beginners.

>>371994089
Damn for me to think That was a honest post...I'm stupid

>>371994089
actually the pasta appeared in a /v/ gamedev thread first
i told the poster to go to /agdg/ and they did

>>371994349
It's still a good post, which is why it's often re-used.

Too many babies relying on DRM filled engines like Unity.

>>371994206
it's a totally fine engine. quite good in fact.
from the outside however, it has a bad impression because it's very easy to use (generally) and thus unskilled people use it and make bad games with it.

>>371994029
That's a troll post mate. You'll never release anything trying to create everything, much less a complete engine, on your own.

>but *my favorite developer* did it
He had turbo autism and drive, and was already fucking about with programming at age 10. If you were one of these guys, you would have already released something. You wouldn't be on an anonymous imageboard begging for help or whining.

>>371990579
It already is and has been for years.

Unless you have some bizarre definition of mainstream.

Making a 2D JRPG in it. Despite its flaws everyone tells me that it's still the best 2D engine as long as it's not pixel shit.

>>371994470
How is Unity "DRM filled"?

>>371990579
Unity already is a viable game engine for mainstream gaming. Most indie games use unity, don't they?

>>371994967
You can use it for pixel shit too, I guess, but trying to get anything pixel-perfect in it will make a fool of you.

>>371992514
You can tell because the game stutters to no end whenever the GC kicks in

>>371995065
Nah, not most. But many.

Most phone games use Unity.

And many of those are in essence "indie". And "mainstream". And make a lot of money.

>>371995065
>mainstream gaming
>Most indie games
OP is bad at wording his thought.
In his mind, mainstream game = AAA games = non indie games

With the collider limit it has, no.

>>371995235
collider limit? what are you talking about?

>>371990579
death stranding and mgs 5, some of the greatest games ever made were made on unity. Also witcher 3 was made on a modified unity engine, but it was so heavily modified i dunno if it can still be considered unity.

>>371995339
No.

>>371990579
It's not efficient.

The best AAA game you probably can say that was made with it would be Hearthstone. It performs like shit, but it's okay since current hardware can pump out 100 frames in it. Oh what's that phones? Oh wait it doesn't matter since it's a card game :^)

>>371995196
Oh. Well, it will never be used in a serious AAA title. The only advantage it provides is the reduced flat cost. AAA companies don't really care about this flat cost; heck many AAA studios are perfectly content writing their own engine from scratch because the benefits they get in flexibility outweighs the high flat cost.

To a company that sells millions of copies, 10% in additional sales translates to more money than the opportunity cost of using a more powerful engine. And taken at the face value, unity is a significantly worse engine than most of its AAA competitors. Again, the only thing it has going for it is ease-of-use.

>>371995235
That's not Unity, that's PhysX. The same thing pretty much every engine uses. If your scene has more than 260,000 colliders, you are fucking up big time and your game won't run on anything anyway.

>>371995296
You can have up to 65k active colliders in Unity

But anon was being a retard, if you really 65k active in your game at the same time you probably should reconsider your work

>>371990702
>I'm ugly, fat and disgusting, how could I improve my looks?
>I know, I'm going to cut my hair like a retard and paint it some bright neon shit color.

>>371995721
Garry Newman is a significantly better coder than you and Rust has been at the collider limit for years.

>>371995571
It's efficient, and fairly easy to optimize with. Devs are just seriously stupid with it, I honestly really find it hard to understand how.

>>371995721
That was previous version of PhysX, it's apparently up to 260k now in 3.3/Unity 5. But yeah, it's like a really absurd amount no matter what.

>>371995947
Then he needs to redesign his code

>>371995887
You thought of it the wrong way, think the Tumblr way
>I'm a beautiful sexy hambeast womyn

>>371995665
>The same thing pretty much every engine uses.
Isn't havok a thing?

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Was made with unity.
Unity isn't that bad it's just people make games as a hobby and can't into optimize.

>>371995947
>he's better than you
>9000 colliders just on a penis
wow

>>371995947
>Garry Newman is a significantly better coder than you
That won't make him free from being bad or taking bad decisions.
Using that many colliders at the same time is indeed a bad thing, and if if that is something he wouldnt want to change, he should have used unity in the first place.

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>>371993430
This is a load of horseshit
Outside of /v/ nobody gives a flying fuck about the engine you use, especially if you can hide it well, which is relatively easy.

If you are trying to pitch a game to people, all they care about is visuals and gameplay.
Nothing else.
End of Story.

This and only this will give you an advantage over competitors.

Also nothing you write as a one man army will ever be as performant or as well tested as Unity or Unreal. You are literally trying to competing with a standard that's been in use for years and has been tested by millions.

If your unity game's performance is bad, the reason is your sloppy work. It's very very certainly not the engines fault. Also the "b-b-b-but my own engine gives me more freedom" argument is a load of horseshit too. Learn the damn API you dingus.

t.ComputerScience Graduate/Software Engineer PhD Student/Part time Gamedev

>>371996194
how can you take a column, and give it texture in the texture, but the actually bumps on it don't fit that texture at all... fuck this looks like shit

>>371996284
Each wrinkles needs his collider, you fool!

>>371996194
this game looks like they built a dungeon and then eroded everything with fuckin water for centuries, jesus christ

>>371996379
>If you are trying to pitch a game to people, all they care about is visuals
ftfy

>>371995947
Being good at coding and running out of colliders are two very unrelated things.

>>371990579
Ironically, Unity is shooting itself in the food with its splashscreen policy on the paid/unpaid version.

The only time you see the Unity splash screen is when it's a shitty one-man game, so people don't notice the actually developed games made in Unity.

>>371996526
>>If you are trying to pitch a game to people, all they care about is its political affilation
thanks god I was here

>>371996547
>be a fucking prodigy with code
>run out of memory
>good coder
heh guess i just wasn't "paying attention" heh

>>371996376
>Using that many colliders at the same time is indeed a bad thing

No, it's a bad thing in Unity, which is a flawed engine which will absolutely hold you back in ways you didn't anticipate when you started, every time.

We live in a world where you can use Source2 and UE4 for free. You don't need Unity.

>>371996379
>This is a load of horseshit
This was my thought as well, being a CS grad with ~15 years of programming experience.

Reinventing the wheel is fun as hell, but it's not productive and if you think writing your own engine will make your game better you're delusional. The hard part about making a game is actually making the game.

>>371996586
>Unity is shooting itself in the food
>in the food
>food
IMAGINE BEING SO FAT YOU LOOK AT GAME ENGINES AND SEE FOOD

>>371996526
Eh... depends.

Sometimes it is visuals first, gameplay second.
Sometimes (more than often) it's only visuals
And in some very rare cases it's gameplay only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7T9tJiw6AU

>>371996692
>0.02 shekels got deposited into your account

>>371996754
Fuck.

brb, getting dinner

>>371995947
rust has a ton of colliders that are useless, like tree branches and fallen trees all over the ground. and a ton of rocks that are useless and don't even provide cover.

>>371993430
Was unsure if to play along but I figured I'm not enough of a cunt to try and meme people into wasting years of their life for shitty results.

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel, nobody will pat you on the back for making your own engine, and the result will not be anywhere near as good as an engine like UE4. Just make fucking game, not engine.

>>371996754
>bytes
>yes, i would like 1000 bites of a sandwich please
>mmmm sandwich

>>371996379
>Also nothing you write as a one man army will ever be as performant or as well tested as Unity or Unreal.

Dunno about 'well tested', but if a single world-class coder actually sat down for 10 years and wrote a 3D engine from scratch, it would revolutionalize 3D graphics. There is a reason you want as few people working on an engine as possible. It turns out better.

>>371990702
>games workshop
>in a winery

>>371990994
And water keeps every single pedophile alive.
That does not mean that they are viable causes.

Unity is cheap and easy to use, that makes it attractive for talentless hacks, not bad.

>>371996978
>it would revolutionalize 3D graphics
this is the dumbest thing i've ever read on here
i'm screenshotting this because nobody will believe me when i post about it

>>371996183
Yeah, but PhysX is slightly in the lead in terms of games using it now. A good amount of engines use it, including Unity, Unreal, Ubisoft's Anvil engine, CD Projekt RED's engine. Anyway just Unity and Unreal makes it account for a shit-ton of games.
But the collider limit shouldn't be a problem for most developers. I guess in unique open world multiplayer situations it might become a problem, but it would have to be a pretty extreme case...

>>371995947
>Garry Newman is a significantly better coder than you
No, he really isn't. Garry is a fucking terrible coder.

>>371991976
that just tells us about the state of AAA games

>>371996916
Although I won't argue they are useless, it depends if they always loaded or not

Does Rust render inactive unseen colliders?

>>371996978
>if a single world-class coder actually sat down for 10 years and wrote a 3D engine from scratch, it would revolutionalize 3D graphics
no it wouldn't
3D engines are not a field of research, it's pretty much a solved problem

>>371997071
Great musician though

>>371996692
It's a bad thing no matter the engine. This is a PhysX limitation, not Unity limitation. UE4 has the same limit because it uses PhysX too.

*runs garbage collection sweep*
*stutters*
*rounds your mouse input to integers after scaling them down by a magic floating point value*

>>371993430
The dumbest and most autistic post I've seen in a while.

I'm impressed.

It already is. Hearthstone was made with Unity

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>the biggest and most profitable game engine in existence
>not mainstream

>>371993430
Just read Quake 3.

>>371996379
>Unreal and Unity
>"performant"
hahaha

>>371996056
>It's efficient, and fairly easy to optimize with.
But it's not. It's 'good enough' in terms of performance and that's what matters to most indie games. The moment you want to create a big game is when the engine starts to have problems.

>Devs are just seriously stupid with it, I honestly really find it hard to understand how.
It's not that they're stupid. They're just ignorant of what they're doing. If you look at any of the top Unity/Unreal games you'll end up seeing that they've never really code before. They form bad habits and that is the result.

What's funny is finding hilariously bad suggestions with UE4's C++. Since UE4 c++ documentation is shit you have to rely on these community posts or hope that the UE team reads your question. You'll end up seeing a ton of bad habits forming such as overuse of strings during runtime, poor loop usage, not understanding the performance of calls such as raycasting. Keep in mind these are done on a per frame basis. My favorite would be allocating memory during a loop every frame.

>>371996393
>>371996503
I swear to fuck find me a game that 3rd person indie with a "professional looking" textures and occlusion mapping.

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>>371990579

It make Illusion stop using their shitty unoptimized engine for their newest porn game, so I'm all happy for it.
Also miconisomi use Unity and it was the best fap ever.

I wished they remaster old Illusion games like Rapelay or Biko 3 with this engine.

>>371993430
>develop your game from scratch
>will take you closer to deploying a game and beat your competitors
Why do you want everyone else to fail so much?

>>371997498
>My favorite would be allocating memory during a loop every frame.
even the most well optimized games allocate memory hundreds of time per frame

>>371997498
New dev fag here, what do you mean for
>overuse of strings during runtime
>poor loop usage
>not understanding the performance of calls such as raycasting
>allocating memory during a loop every frame
so I avoid this kind of stupid shit in the future

>>371997001
STOP IT, you're making too much sense. This is a Unity hate thread, you're supposed to shitpost here!

>>371997001
>And water keeps every single pedophile alive.
And children are made of water.
It make sense.

>>371997213
>3D engines are not a field of research, it's pretty much a solved problem
This is so wrong it hurts. The field is always evolving, and new engines keep on doing new and exciting things. Heck, even just writing the new generation of engines on top of D3D12 / Vulkan is providing lots of avenues for innovation.

Plus, we're talking about a tiny subset of 3D engines. We're so far from 3D graphics being a solved problem it hurts. We haven't even remotely figured out realtime global illumination, ray tracing etc. Instead we're stuck with a rendering archetype from decades ago because everything else is too hard.

>>371997794
the stupidest shit you can do is listening to a random person on 4chan instead of understanding it for yourself, so develop your own game and understand what makes it performant instead of taking someones word for it

>>371997736
stop

>>371996379
>>371996936
>>371997261
>>371997637
t. dumbasses too stupid to build their own engines.

The Witness not only has it's own engine, they wrote an entire fucking language for it. You guys are pathetic by comparison.

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>>371994029

>>371998137
jon blow is autistic

>>371994470
please go back to /g/ RMS

>>371998137
who gives a shit, it was a waste of time.

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>>371998137
>Citin The Witness
Wew lad, you should've just said No Man's Sky while you're at it.

>>371997736
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was talking about petty usage for said memory in a single loop.

As for allocating memory every frame from the operating system? No, not at all. Maybe through an internal memory manager in which that'll allocate a handful of times during a frame, but definitely not hundreds of times.

So what is more important when it comes to developing a game, coding skill or art skill?

agdg seems adamant coding is far more important and good art has little purpose.

>>371997794
integers are faster than copying and comparing strings
raycasting is typically not a fast operation
allocating dynamic memory should be done on level/region change or game restart because it's wildly unpredictable in running cost and normally causes a hitch in the framerate -- and if you do it every frame, you'll have a hitch every frame!

>>371998137
>Spend 10 year making a game engine from scratch
>Runs like shit, fries your CPU, corrupt your hard drive
>Can't even make a game out of it
>make a $60 AAA game

>>371997957
>We haven't even remotely figured out realtime global illumination, ray tracing etc. Instead we're stuck with a rendering archetype from decades ago because everything else is too hard.
we've figured it out, it's just too slow to do in real time

>The field is always evolving, and new engines keep on doing new and exciting things
People find new algorithms and tricks for doing things, the fundamentals of how a 3D game engine works remains the same. Writing a new game engine isn't going to reveal anything. People do it all the time

>Heck, even just writing the new generation of engines on top of D3D12 / Vulkan is providing lots of avenues for innovation.
Vulkan and D3D12 aren't so different from what we currently use that you need to write a new engine to use them, nor do they provide 'avenues of innovation' instead of a slight boost to performance (even that is debatable)

>>371990702
So to answer OP's question: No.

>>371998137
The Witness wasn't written in Jon Blow's language, it was written in C++. Also, it could have been made in one third the time if he just used Unity, it certainly looks like a Unity game

>>371997237
Underrated post.

>>371998468
Both, but I'd sway coding as being more important. You can make gorgeous models (like me) but if you can't make them sing and dance you don't have a show.

>>371998468
Programming is of course important in having a good game.
Art is important in actually finishing the game.

When I've tried to do games with people, the problem has always been art. The programmers could be replaced by a fucking chimp. Artists invariably lose motivation and stop doing the art. The whole thing fails, no game is released. I guess the moral of the story is to use contracts.

Good and motivated artists are as rare and precious as unicorns.

I'm so tired of class-oriented programming, and nearly every fucking engine shoves it in your face. The only exception seems to be id Tech.

>>371998468
game dev skill is most important. i would say (as an artist) it leans slightly more to coding, i think art skill is little a bit more arbitrary. while i don't believe you could strip away the art from a game and have a game that is similarly satisfying to play, i don't think a game needs phenomenal art to be extremely fun.
but "game dev" skill, i would say is the skill of planning out, designing, and actually developing a complete game experience, which is probably the hardest thing to learn and do, for me at least. and you could develop that skill with mediocre art and coding skills i think.

>>371998937
>I make amateur VN projects and think I'm a game developer

>>371998490
>>371997498
>he thinks removing a few string comparisons and malloc calls is going to boost his FPS
The real way to gain performance is to design your engine in a way that avoids pipeline stalls and main-thread driver bottlenecks.

I develop a rendering engine that literally constructs the entire shader from scratch (by appending to a string, which involves frequent reallocations) and looks it up in a list of shaders using a string comparison, every single frame. It even contains an O(n^2) loop in the main thread that computes and categorizes the sample positions for the blur kernel, every single frame.

Why? Because it doesn't fucking matter. Sure, I could make the engine more brittle and reintroduce bugs by micro-optimizing them away for 0.05% less CPU usage and no change in FPS, or I could instead spend my time actually working on the hard problems and bottlenecks, like avoiding pipeline stalls due to blocked semaphores by introducing asynchronous ahead-of-time computation and reusing command buffers.

>>371998937
This.
tfw (artist).

>>371998567
>we've figured it out, it's just too slow to do in real time
That's like saying we've figured out how to colonize mars, it's just too hard to engineer in practice

>>371999549
no it's not. We use raytracing and global illumination for offline rendering. It's too slow to do it in real time.

>>371998137

lel, there's not one thing the witness engine can do that Unity can't. Blow is just an autistic auteur who wants the prestige of making his own engine.

>>371997794
Understand what a string comparison is and how it works. It's why engines have an object ID. 1 comparison > ??? God knows how many comparisons.

Poor loop usage is more identifying performance cost. This is hard to realize yourself, but can easily be noticed by others.

Performance of calls. Raycast for example is not a cheap operation. Well..it depends on the type of game you're making and how many obejcts are within this partition.

Memory allocation is also not a cheap operation. Though this also depends on the language and the operation system.

wtf is with my captcha I had to wait like 5 seconds between every picture to refresh

>>371998567
>the fundamentals of how a 3D game engine works remains the same.
No it doesn't. People have moved from the naive forward rendering engines from the last decade to increasingly complicated deferred rendering approaches using 3D frustrum clustering, hierarchical virtual textures, ahead-of-time occlusion queries, screen space reflections etc.

Every generation of engine pushes the boundaries of what we thought possible in realtime.

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>>371999239
Oh shit, I take it all back. Good and motivated artists are commonplace rubbish, and programmers are really rare.

>>371999484
>I develop a rendering engine that literally constructs the entire shader from scratch ... every single frame
It's not well designed, then, is it. By the way, you only get away with all that because N is small.

>reusing command buffers
No shit.

>he thinks calling malloc -- probably repeatedly -- during every frame is acceptable

>>371993430
>spend a bunch of time writing your own engine
>since you're new to this, it's going to be lacking in features and/or slow
>whatever competitors you have will beat you to market with a better looking game done in less time and you'll look like a joke
writing your own engine is certainly good to learn, but don't do it if you're trying to break into the market

>>371998937
the moral of the story is reduce your dependence on artists
unfortunately, this is why so much indieshit is well, indieshit -- a load of these "retro pixel style" games are mainly doing it because any idiot can slap together a set of super-low-res (we're talking sub-16x16 for everyone) sprites, same with chip music,
it takes as little as an hour to write each song, spend a few evenings doing nothing but working on music and you'll have an entire soundtrack done within the week

>>371999764
So you admit that realtime raytracing is an unsolved problem?

>>372000351
>It's not well designed, then, is it.
Says who? I don't give a shit about 0.05% CPU usage when the workload is entirely GPU-bound.

I'd rather have more reliable code that is easy to refactor and hard to break than code that runs a tiny bit faster.

>>371998468
Art skills. There are 101 ways for shitty programmers to put together code that will be passable for a successful game. There are no ways for a shitty artists to make art that will be passable for a successful game unless your name rhymes with Botch or you have a preestablished fanatical audience from your contributions to a webcomic. I desperately wish I learned art earlier, would have saved me so much shit.

>>372000350
What you're describing is the upper 10% of the engine, the little optimizations and graphical effects you add onto the top. Even switching from foward to deferred rendering isn't a huge change in the structure of a game engine. None of those "push the boundaries of what we thought were possible". At most they might squeeze an extra 5-10% of performance out of it or create a cool new visual effect

>>372000461
Wolfenstein 3D and Doom were raytraced
so no, it's not an unsolved problem, its not even classified as a problem seeing raytracing is raytracing weather it's realtime or not. You could make a raytraced game with modern graphics aswell, it's just less flexible and practical than polygons overall

Is UE4 better than Unity in every way for making 3D Games now?

I literally can't think of a single reason to use Unity now.

>>372000753
>There are no ways for a shitty artists to make art that will be passable for a successful game
what do you think all the shitty pixel art in indie games is

>>372001187
Something that's even starting to get called out in mainstream circles, rather than just on /v/. It's becoming no longer acceptable.

>>372001096
Licencing could be one reason. I'd much rather pay a one time fee than give them 10% of my profits.

If you plan on selling your shit on steam that's already 43% my man.

Why don't more people learn 3D? Dumbasses keep saying it's harder than 2D when that's actually untrue, especially when it comes to animating.

>>372001504
>Dumbasses keep saying it's harder than 2D when that's actually untrue
except it is true
once you know how to do 3D, you can work more efficently than 2D in many ways but it has a much bigger barrier to entry

>>372001096
Unity has more community support out there already? This isn't a big deal because there are plenty of active websites to ask UE4 questions like their own forums. Other than maybe not finding an answer instantly there is no reason to not use UE4.

>>372001504
modeling tools are complicated and/or expensive
you need a fair bit more math knowledge to work with 3D, assuming your engine doesn't do absolutely everything

that's about it, though

>>372001618
No it doesn't retard, not if you want to make half-decent looking 2D art. 3D is much easier to learn unless you're sticking with retro pixelshit.

>>372001824
well you can disagree all you want but reality speaks for itself

>>372001096
UE4 is bloated as hell and Unity is easy to iterate in. Unity has a lot more documentation and support.

>>371998468

Art skills. with entry-level CS knowledge and some documentation, 90% of indie games will have no problem whatsoever. Hardware and frameworks are too advanced to truly fuck up. Meanwhile in art land the competition is getting better and better, AAA quality art is quickly becoming the indie standard, unless your game EXCELS at gameplay you will be left in the dust if it looks mediocre,

>>371999484
>he thinks removing a few string comparisons and malloc calls is going to boost his FPS
I never said string comparisons are bad. I said overuse of it. There's a very big key difference between the two. When you find a ton of sample code where people are searching for a particular object by string only to do that a ton of times within a frame, that's what I'm talking about over use of it. When these objects have IDs, types, and so on there's simply no reason to do that. As for malloc, lol. Without a doubt, yes. Ever noticed that almost everything will use a memory manager even though C++ is a GC free language?

>(by appending to a string, which involves frequent reallocations)
It does not. Most languages when you allocate a string, it'll mimic a vector like container. Because of that when you have a string of "Hello World" it may allocated exactly 11, but odds are it wouldn't have. Maybe if you're pushing character by character from the start, but that depends on how it grows and a minimum starting size. Depends on the language and compiler though.

>looks it up in a list of shaders using a string comparison
And if you were doing it by ID it'd be quicker. Though this depends on how you name them and how many of them are there. If they're all something silly like "Shader_????" then I hope you'd see the issue with that.

>Why? Because it doesn't fucking matter.
You're right. You are absolutely right and I'm not being sarcastic. It doesn't matter since you're not making a giant game where these problems will easily be apparent.

>>372002264
memory allocation isn't anywhere near as slow as you think it is

>>372001096
UE4 is a piece of shit. I don't know why they introduced Blueprints but it has made the already unpleasant task of writing sepples code within the Unreal framework significantly more unpleasant.

Unity is a piece of shit but perhaps a little less inscrutable.

>>371993430
I actually wrote my engine from scratch. I'm making a game that takes the bare minimum features from an engine (Static camera, small scenes, barely any need for collision detection) and I'm more comfortable working with something I wrote. I wouldn't recommend it to a non-programmer though, Unity is very easy to learn and allows very fast prototyping.

>>372002443
When you're pressed for time, as most 'real' games are, it's a big deal to minimize them through a memory manager.

>>372002264
>As for malloc, lol. Without a doubt, yes
And have you benchmarked it or do you just go by what you “feel” in general?

>It does not. Most languages when you allocate a string
This is C, I wrote the string implementation. It reallocates in powers of two.

The only measurable performance problems I've ever had with this code was when the cache was too small. Bumped the limit from 20 up to 256 and haven't had issues since.

>And if you were doing it by ID it'd be quicker.
They're all generated at realtime. The time it would take me to hash the shader is the same as it will take me to do a few string comparisons; and neither are relevant.

>>372002443
[coalesces blocks internally]

>>372002443
>>372003067
Only GPU memory allocations really matter for a game. Unless you're doing something stupid like memcpying around several GB per second or calculating physics on the rendering thread, you're not going to run into CPU bottlenecks.

>>372003067
the biggest efficency autists will manually manage all of their memory, and wont even use OOP because virtual function lookups take too long. Personally I'm skeptical of the optimisation over all else cult, because the witness still has loading stutters even though jonathan blow spends half his waking life moaning about how bad everyone else is at coding, and my own game engine runs my 3D game just fine with a garbage collector and lots of dynamically allocated memory

Can we all agree that Haskell is the best programming language?

>>372003521
No, we can't. Unless you also want to agree that screwdrivers are the best tool.

>>372003323
>It reallocates in powers of two.
So you're not reallocating every frame, and you design things exactly how I would. Fake news.

>>372003587
>Unless you also want to agree that screwdrivers are the best tool.
Haskell is like a screwdriver with a head shape that doesn't fit any screws

>>372003625
I build the shader string up every single frame.

>>372003709
Your post is like an analogy involving edible cars

>>372003718
Yeah. You reuse the memory you allocated in successive powers of two the previous frame, yes?

>>372003709
>like a screwdriver with a head shape that doesn't fit any screws
>not screwing with a hammer
fucking pleb

>>372003323
>And have you benchmarked it
Yes I have and replacing it with my own memory manager vastly jumped performance overall.

>This is C, I wrote the string implementation. It reallocates in powers of two.
And exactly how many allocations a frame is that section of code doing?

>neither are relevant.
All depends on how many there are and I'd imagine they're a bunch of random characters and thus not many collisions.

>>372003718
that's inefficient no matter which way you look at it

>>372003797
>Yeah. You reuse the memory you allocated in successive powers of two the previous frame, yes?
No. I allocate and build up a new string.

>>372003958
Your concern is noted.

>>372003718
Terrible.

>>372004528
I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about the moment you have to grow, but rather in between growing. Since it's exponential odds are you aren't doing many allocations.

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363KB, 192x291px

>>371990579

I'm using Unity to develop a 2d platformer.

I know java pretty good from school and c# is basically the same so the transition with the programming was pretty quick.It's fun to problem solve and figure out how to get some kind of mechanic working or make some working Ai.

I'd like to make a game people could play and enjoy one day, but maybe that day will never come, who knows... if it doesn't then I'll be okay, its satisfying to create things.