Why is Japan so much better than the West at making Western-style Action RPGs?
Decent, but doesn't hold a candle to Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and the like.
Not out yet, could be great could be trash.
Turned out alright, but not as good as people had hoped.
>divinity original sin 2
Fun for min maxing, really clunky and rough around the edges though because of the budget.
Storywise excellent conclusion to the series, gameplay wise the worst of the three.
Not out yet, could be great could be trash.
poe is better than first bg, you don't know what you're talking about
>but not as good as people had hoped
just like everything else in life
>gameplay wise the worst of the three
again you don't know what you're talking about
BG1 gets bonus points for being more original, POE was derivative of Infinity Engine RPGs. BG2 is leagues better than POE in every single way.
>again you don't know what you're talking about
I like The Witcher 1 and 2's gameplay better. What's the problem? Does that bother you?
Old enough to actually remember that it was the first Infinity Engine game that defined a decade of Western RPGs. Where POE only calls back to one.
Or will you deny that it was a milestone in the genre simply because it was Forgotten Realms?
Kek, the RPG mechanics shit on most games that call themselves RPGs. Your actions always have real consequences that you can't avoid, and so you actually want to make your decisions wisely.
play some rpg games made before bg, kid
Western developers made Blade of Darkness which is still unsurpassed in terms of combat system in its own genre, especially compared to simplistic things like dark souls.
Also Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
>poe is better than first bg
It's fucking not.
First BG is a genuine low-level dnd adventure with a good setting, good antagonist and good intrigue that has a feeling of adventure.
PoE is a boring snoozefest with infodump NPC which reveals 95% of story in the very last dungeon, with pathetic, jrpg-tier antagonist. It also can't decide whether or not it's a low level adventure, so we get both shit itemization and fucking ancient dragons as opponents.
You're not too bright are you? It's okay to admit your only experience with old school PC RPGs was in hindsight.
I bet you think Wolfenstein and DOOM weren't original because Maze War existed.
I've actually replayed it after playing in PoE, thanks for asking.
It manages to hold itself better than Sawyer's abortion for sure.
Ooh, you got me. Considering how you've yet to offer up a single actual argument, and you're just throwing sick burns my way, I'll assume you've run out of bullshit to spew.
Or do you actually plan on telling me how the original Baldur's Gate was less original than Pillars of Eternity.
>no counter arguments
>b-better call them codexers
Get the hell out of here you tasteless faggot.
Apologize for being an idiot.
So it's just the sick burns then? You're not going to bother actually making your point?
POE is fine. If it came out in the 90s it would be quite good, but it didn't. It came out in 2015 and did very little but call back the Infinity Engine RPGs. It brought nothing new to the table and was simply "okay."
If you think any different than you missed the point of POE. It's like the new Star Wars. It was simply meant to pander to nostalgia and rehash the old stuff we like. The point of POE was to say, "We're back." Obsidian themselves have said that POE II is where they'll start trying to do things we haven't seen before.
Outside from the Souls franchise, which is now getting really tiring and is recycling the same goddamn ideas for the nth time
I cant really think of another worthy JRPG
notice how every RPG they made has main character as a tiny man with huge weapons ?
lmao, kinda like their hentai
Because as outsiders they discern the qualities of a western setting better.
Also they dont feel the need to add homosexual romance,SJW cunt faced elves or races that dont fit the setting.
>first time meeting antagonist in PoE
>encounter was supposed to show how incredibly powerful he is
>instead he just flies around the city like a giggling schoolboy doing petty tricks for people
>mfw someone out there thinks that this game has anything resembling a good writing
Western devs are brain-dead fucktards focused more on impresssing their hipster journo friends than anything.
Western devs want to make games for non-gamer tumblrinas
Jap devs want to make games for people who enjoy games.
>rogue-lite version of souls games
>souls-combat and mechanics
>randomized dungeons and spawning
>multiple boss types with different prefixes
>loot is randomized
>as time goes on more enemies and bosses can spawn
>loot quality also goes up as time goes on
And most of the loot gives different movesets/abilities.
Would definetely spend hours on end playing this but I don't feel that it's very souls related as luck plays a very big part in Roguelikes/lites meanwhile DS is all about gitting gud as cringy as that sounds.
Nobody said BG1 invented the CRPG though. I said BG1 scores points for being more original than POE. Some of the best games in the CRPG genre were Infinity Engine games, and Baldur's Gate is the reason they happened.
>>324242236 here just got really triggered that POE wasn't the unique masterpiece he thinks it is.
Fair enough, yeah will have to agree BG1 is better than POE in addition to it's originality the writing is much better as well (Not including EE since the new characters are garbage)
>devs make a black character
fucking tumblr ruinin my vidya gaems, muh race purity, keep nignogs outta muh vidya
To be fair there should be stats, based on advantage-consequence chain of physical characteristics chosen on character creation.
See Dragon's Dogma weight, muscles, height etc.
this is basically the only reason most people talk about these games, even then they aren't really that hard if your first console wasn't a cell phone. they where a nice departure for a while when everyone was trying to make easy as fuck games for retards.
luck plays very little role in a GOOD roguelike
you've just been playing shitty ones
what does matter in every roguelike/lite is adaptability, the procedurally generated nature of the levels and loot ensures that no one playstyle is optimal 100% of the time, which results in people dying to what they call bullshit luck
Why would a black character even exist in a rpg? aren't fantasy settings romantizations of ancient European myths and folk tales?
I have no troubles with a black guy in a call of duty game but there are places they shouldnt be and I'm not only talking about drinking fountains
I have to assume the other anon played POE first and liked it, then tried to play BG1 and was turned off. POE has some QOL improvements that make it more welcoming, where BG1 can feel suitably dated.
But if you give them an honest comparison it's hard to see how POE is better than BG1.
He's partially on point, like he parroted the opinion from somebody else.
Japanese rarely make use of Z axis in level design. Some western studios did it well, once, before competent devs quite because of low wages(or high wages in other fields) and what they were replaced by hardly played any games with good use of Z axis so it's roughly on the same level now.
If it came out in 90's it would get 6/10 reviews and be forgotten in favour of Infinity engine games only because of D&D license.
It is 100% nostalgia tripping game, that's true tho.
I used to like western games anyway but this shit is ruining them.
I also hate the split between super casualised AAA games with great graphics and no gameplay and the actually good games are often top down CRPGs that looks like absolute shit with garbage art, nothing in between.
no they are most certainly not
god dammit D&D ruined an entire generation of fantasy
fantasy is about creating your own world, can be completely balls of the wall crazy, can just be alt-history
I wouldnt ditch stats but make them subtler and less important than new abilities,moves and combos.
It makes sense your battle hardened swordsman to be stronger than at the begining of the game what it doesnt make sense is that the only difference between a trained swordsman and a rookie is the amount of force they inflict on the same move and the amount of damage they can take.
Skyrim style needs to die.
You mean tolkien? fuck off, if you want your race to be represented as much as you'd like then make your own fucking game and base it on folk tales and imagery of africa.I'm sure it would sell well :^)
>here just got really triggered that POE wasn't the unique masterpiece he thinks it is
You got it all wrong. It was I who triggered your hateboner for poe and i did it on purpose
time for some facts
you're probably a codex user aka simple-minded elitist
at the time when bg arrived you've probably very young so It's natural that you feel nostalgic for it
you expected poe to be bd 3 with broken mages and silly d&d setting but you got rekt by your own unrealistic expectations and decided to unleash your manchild nerd rage all innocent poe enthusiasts
is that correct?
This game was the worst RPG I have ever played. Bar none. Trying to play it on hard as 100% melee was simply a headache, and not even remotely fun. Especially later game. The game pretty much expects you to be ranged, or magic, and every single freaking fight is tailored around that.
You likely had a better experience if you weren't pure melee. As I was, the game was complete trash. When playing through as a mage after beating it the game was a joke. How you can consider it good when the class balancing is so horrible is beyond me.
you could always make the stat-skill system more like a trade-off one
like say you can either increase your stats heavily or invest in new skills. So for the melee fighter someone who focuses on stats is going to be the massive hulking barbarian who might not know much beyond hitting things with his axe, but whatever he hits aint getting back up while someone who focuses on skills over stats is going to be more akin to the swordmaster with a technique for every occasion inflicting damage through precision more than power
and course make it entirely dynamic so the players can choose just how much they want to invest in either and maybe have techniques require a minimum stat level so the frail wizard type isn't going to be all that effective in melee without at least getting fit
You do know Camelit, king Artur and the kights of the round table are fiction?
No Tolkien didn't do nearly as much damage to the fantasy genre as D&D and their fans acting like its the fantasy dictionary
and honestly a fantasy game based on african mythology would be mighty interesting
>You got it all wrong. It was I who triggered your hateboner for poe
Nope. If you could read (how did you beat POE without being able to read) you'd actually know my opinion on POE. Which right from the start (>>324239849) has always been "decent", "fine", "good."
>you're probably a codex user aka simple-minded elitist
>at the time when bg arrived you've probably very young so It's natural that you feel nostalgic for it
Ah, the "older things can't be better because you have nostalgia" meme. I was 18 when it came out and I do have nostalgia for it.
That very same nostalgia is what POE so desperately pandered to.
>you expected poe to be bd 3 with broken mages and silly d&d setting but you got rekt by your own unrealistic expectations and decided to unleash your manchild nerd rage all innocent poe enthusiasts
I expected it to be a nostalgia fueled callback to 90s CRPGs, at it was. I seriously hope you don't play mages, though.
>is that correct?
Mostly no, apparently.
You've yet to answer my question on how POE is more original than BG1.
Man at Arms gives you the highest damage dealing skills in the game especially when you add 2h weapons to the mix.
The only thing that's necessarily are healing spells and perception since as far as I remember there was unavoidable perception check.
Also, Josh, it's not like your game was balanced either.
>You've yet to answer my question on how POE is more original than BG1.
not him but POE has a unique setting while BG1 is a fairly standard rendition of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, so I'd consider it more original in that aspect at least.
>what about resurrecting it?
Hasn't done that yet. Fingers crossed though.
POE is a game like BG1 and IWD2.
>Or what exactly supports the notion that all went wrong?
When one of the better recent CRPGs is the one that throws away the past 16 years of the genre.
Hah, this fkin kikes arguing about PoE and BG..
I played them both, I finished them both, I still think they were boring as fuck. And I have to agree, considering year, that BG1 was made, its writing is way better than PoE.
Im sad that Albion died out and noone has tried to make a game this good since 95.
Also I am sad, that souls franchise can be considered successor to Severance: Blade of Darkness, but it's fanbase is complete shit with ebin memelord autists in its lead.
I know its fairly generic but at least they tried doing something different by not only having the game set technologically in the renaissance but also culturally and course the whole souls deal
That said personally I'm hoping for a naval themed POE2, there's quite a bit of lore about the aquatic regions of the world and all of it sounds mighty interesting (and replacing the stronghold mechanic with a build your own fleet mechanic could be amazing)
>but doesn't hold a candle to Baldur's Gate
how can one be so wrong
>I was 18 when it came out and I do have nostalgia for it.
I knew it, you should be banned from all modern rpg discussion, especially everything made by obsidian
>I seriously hope you don't play mages, though
how to spot unbalanced swine, cipher was my choice because I consider myself ciper in real life
>You've yet to answer my question on how POE is more original than BG1
by not using d&d setting?
>posts list of good western RPGs
>no anon those don't count xD
still you gotta admit that BG1's early levels were a random clusterfuck where player skill barely mattered at all and the only thing that was relevant was who got the better dice rolls on his archery
>the most accurate conversion of D&D rules
This is the opposite of what you'd call good practice. D&D rules are terrible from top to bottom and assume there's a human DM constantly winging it to keep the game from breaking. Also by dint of being a video game, it has a lot more combat and very little opportunity to roleplay, which trivializes utility magic, knowledge and social skills, screws with what little resource balancing there is and generally makes everything worse.
Take warcraft 3 heroes and give them some tiny, irrelevant 'feats' and 'skills' every three levels. Then have a few of them get progressively more spells, 80% of which are useless and 20% of which mess up the whole game. There's your D&D 3e.
Let's also point out that as 3e was in development, TSR got bought by some retarded trust fund broad who wanted to turn D&D into a toy line and hated roleplaying so much she forbade any of it in company premises, so 3e was literally an untested alpha rushed out by a jew and made popular by marketing campaigns. If you're defending it as a good system it's a good chance you've never played anything else in your entire life, and therefore can't have an informed opinion on the subject.
>keep the game from breaking
Why does this matter so much in single-player games? Balance is the reason why we get games with shit abilities like PoE.
Oh I forgot, BG2 also has the best and most fun magic in any video game ever. Yes it's clearly OP. And yes the other classes, like fighters, are really lacking and that's one real drawback of D&D.
Let me guess, you saw those two words and your chicken brain started boiling immediately. I was talking about the balance in resource distribution. Since vidya have zero impromptu flexibility and throw ten times more monsters at you than any p&p party would face between levelups, they constantly drown you in healing potions and +x magic weapons, which makes healing a non-issue and magic gear even more bland than it already is. Oh yeah, and resting. Finding ways to rest in hostile environments is a big deal in p&p. Half of the point of rangers and druids is that they can find ways for party to recover resources in the field. In a video game, you just hit a button, an animation plays and all your abilities are refreshed. Video games PREVENT what little fun can be had in D&D.
> BG2 also has the best and most fun magic in any video game ever.
Let's not mince words. You are an imbecile.
>And you call someone else uninformed, jesus christ, fuck off.
Well I'm obviously better informed than you, since you harbor beliefs about 3e that are the opposite of reality. Skill system is a mess where being a burglar takes seven different skills but knowing everything about magic or being able to use all magic items is just one, feats mostly serve to
-prevent classes that don't have a feat from doing something everyone could try to do in older editions, like trying to disarm an opponent,
-be an unintentional crutch for martial characters, like how you can't make a relevant fighter without using power attack with a two-handed weapon,
-make magic users even more OP, see casting in wild shape for druids or persistent metamagic for clerics
-be a noob trap, like toughness, skill feats, weapon focus, and pretty much all of them ever published in official material or third party splatbooks bar maybe a couple dozen.
Magic I won't even comment. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>Half of the point of rangers and druids is that they can find ways for party to recover resources in the field. In a video game, you just hit a button, an animation plays and all your abilities are refreshed.
It's not the fault of D&D that no vidya designer has ever made a dynamic and "deep" resting system. It would be no problem to assign a danger level to different zones in dungeons and other areas. And to make enemies actually go on patrols and stuff. It's the fault of video games themselves when they only throw static groups of monsters at you.
And yeah, BG2 still has the best magic system in video games, sorry m8. There is no other game that has something like 200 spells that barely repeat themselves and that nearly all have their uses.
Is that why three quarter of all core character classes don't have any access to magic?
No, it's shitty balancing and direct lifting of ad&d content while
-removing drawbacks magic users had to deal with,
-heavily buffing magic users,
-massively nerfing all other classes, as in making armor and shields a hundrance rather than an asset, giving frontline warriors shit saves, replacing ability checks with an awful skill system, and bloating hit points so much that dealing damage became the absolute worst way to kill anything,
-trying to 'fix' this through piles of magic gear, so by level 10 you're basically playing an item list - and a fairly standardized one, because most specific items you simply need in order to survive or do your job - with a name scribbled on top.
>200 spells that barely repeat themselves and that nearly all have their uses
Just walk away. You can't embarrass yourself an further than you already have, and you and your dumb opinion stand alone on the field. Just walk away.
>Let's also point out that as 3e was in development, TSR got bought by some retarded trust fund broad who wanted to turn D&D into a toy line and hated roleplaying so much she forbade any of it in company premises, so 3e was literally an untested alpha rushed out by a jew and made popular by marketing campaigns. If you're defending it as a good system it's a good chance you've never played anything else in your entire life, and therefore can't have an informed opinion on the subject.
This is completely wrong.
Souls is only one franchise versus the gorilion ones you have across the US and EU.
Plus the west is best at creating space themed and post nuclear games, themes in which Japan doesn't touch.
Let's make a cinematic experience where the player can control the story!
Fuck it, just dump 35 hours of unskipable cut scenes and make the gameplay hard as shit to make it seem the game is longer than it is.
Six years of either D&D 3e or nothing, until I managed to find another group. To say I've developed a dislike for the fans of the system would be an understatement.
Yes, there are millions people who have uninformed opinions.
its not dark balls is at best a 7/10 game that is extremely overrated because of muh difficulty meme and because everyone wants to pretend they are so hardcore true gamurz
its garbage basically, and people respond to all and any criticism with git gud maymay
>Plus the west is best at creating space themed and post nuclear games, themes in which Japan doesn't touch.
Dude a fucking star ocean game was about nuc holo. Nukes are the explicit cause of hell on earth in multiple SMT games, MGS is about nukes and Ace combat was always about nukes
Japs have tonnes of nuke games
FFXIII was still better than DA2 or Cisquisition
Um the last few games I've played where I've had to sit through "story" have all been japanese
You have MGS with all it's fucking hour long cutscenes (or an hour long intro in V), FF with billions of cutscenes and almost every other jrpg in history with story dumps
The only argument for them not being "cinematic" is the fact that the story isn't edited down to a reasonable length.
This isn't good storytelling, it's wanton indulgence
Wasn't better than inquisition desu, at least that had some involved gameplay.
And we shouldn't be competing to see which game is the absolute worst, this was about the horseshit claim that FF is "games for people who enjoy games"
Japan seems way more willing to indulge the desires of their creative directors than the west. Whilst this does work sometimes (i.e. souls) most of the time it leads to shit like lightning or quiet and a rubbish but really long story
It never last this long and it doesn't hurt the game.
Now forced walking, camera and over abundance of QTEs and mini cutscene everywhere during gameplay is a cinematic experience.
>mfw weaboos are all shit eaters with short memories (and dicks too)
>it doesn't hurt the game.
Ayy what is FF13
>Now forced walking, camera and over abundance of QTEs and mini cutscene everywhere during gameplay is a cinematic experience
You tell them girl *goes back to his review copy of Storm 4 while slurping Japanese semen*
>good action RPG series
When will this meme finally die?
>only ONE game
Lmao don't worry, the FF13 triloshit wasn't even THAT bad compared to the stink fest that are the new Tales and Star Ocean games.
Actually it's the opposite. JRPGs are the ones that started with the whole giving options that doesn't affect anything.
Western RPGs used to having meaningful options until they became console pandering games, now it's all about that wheel of responses that don't do jack shit. Thanks Bioware.
JRPG are anime fags that only care about waifus.
As long as there is a cute anime girl they'll play the game. The simple fact you people take the opinions of this human garbage seriously baffles me.
xDdd we we the tootie tootie waifu gaem xDd holy shit I love her I booth the expansive collectors edition xdd this game kinda sucks tho xd no worries the tootie tootie waifu 2 was released in Japan! They say its better! lol Kay? *cuts his dick off to appease his gf boyfriend*
>mfw westacucks are all cuckolds who get cucked by their devs pandering to SJWs
>mfw people think Slavs and Japs aren't the only people making good games these days
>mfw people care about 'SJWs'
>refusing to play 50% of games that come out because of non-existent 'SJWs'
>i-i dont care u guys...
Because aesthetics have nothing to do with gameplay and honestly most of them suck because people grab the worst elements of RPGs (stat grinding, unlocking way too many skills, limit of active skills) and allow themselves to use shallow combat system because it's an RPG.
Just look at Dragon's Dogma. 3 skills per weapon and no dedicated dodge button for every weapon is horrible. Same with stamina system that promotes just bringing shittons of consumables and searching for augments that aren't even in your vocation.
JRPGs are pure hack and slash games. Most WRPGs aren't.
In tabletop games, a hack and slash is essentially a D&D game minus everything that isn't combat-oriented. So combat-oriented stats, combat-oriented decision making / goals, and combat-oriented events are in the game, but everything else is taken out of the adventure. It turns the games into basically primitive turn-based strategy games with no roleplaying. This is what JRPGs are, sometimes with reflex-based mechanics involved (aka action in vidya).
Some WRPGs also don't place any emphasis on anything outside of combat, and most also throw action-based mechanics in the mix, but most of them still try to incorporate stats, decision making / goals, and events outside of combat and are more social-oriented, the addition of which makes roleplaying even slightly possible.