>>324185691 I liked the loot and upgrade system for squad leaders from DoW2 but I hated the removal of base building, and the offensively tiny number of units we got to use at once. I'm not sure I want a DoW3 considering how big a step back it was in everything except storytelling, which is always a secondary concern in Warhammer 40k.
>>324186837 Horus Heresy books seem fine, but I just don't want to start them because of the setting. That whole part should have been remained mystery, as something no one would like to talk about or simply couldn't because barely anyone knows anything about the details.
I want to get into 40k but there's so much fucking lore and so many different groups, (isn't there at least 50 factions of Space Marines alone?), it looks daunting as fuck to get into this whole thing.
mainly because it did away with the god awful pathfinding of the first game and it had proper fun campaigns again. Also the way you upgraded commanders was really fun. It would be nice if they kept all the new mechanics such as cover, destroyable walls, etc. but raise the number of troops in battle again. I can see them sticking with the numbers they had for SMs and CSMs and raising the number of troops for all other factions
That close combat powerdrill designed to open up buildings, tanks and whatever the fuck else. Wrist mounted heavy flamer on my CCW.
Right arm replaced with a flamestorm cannon or a multimelta.
Chaos dreadnought. Wrist mounted melta (treated like a shotgun in the spehss marheen game), dreadnought class lightning claw, twin linked autocannon. Sometimes they have hull mounted storm bolters, (smoke) grenade launchers and vox speakers.
>that mournful music where you feel the weight of the Heresy upon your shoulders >That narration from a Space Marine who has clearly been in the shit >"I was there...." >Those images of the maelstrom of battle swirling by as Space Marine battles Space Marine IT'S A FUCKING CARD GAME
>>324189004 Eternal Crusade is basically Space Marine MP. Which is good, not great, but good. If they add vehicles and cool new weapons, I'll be sold. I played my mates account who dropped like $50 on it.
>>324188901 Games Workshop doesn't even listen to its own fans much less some retarded liberals that aren't even their target market. If there's one thing GW can be commended for is not caving to pressure.
>>324188089 there were 20 original legions with 20 primarchs.
Two primarchs and their legions we know absolutely nothing about.
18 legions, 18 primarchs, 9 loyalist, 9 traitor.
All other chapters come from these legions (Primarchs were made in the image of the emperor and space marines were made in the image of their primarchs via gene-seed).
Power in the imperium very much comes from just how useful you are to the emperor. It is a top down system (power comes from the emperor) rather than a bottom up system (like a meritocracy where power comes from the people who voted you in etc).
Reading some of the codices is a great way to start learning about the factions. As can simply reading some of the novels. Anything by aaron dembski-bowden or dan abnett is amazing, avoid anything written by c.s. goto.
>>324189169 >>324189228 >>324189249 >>324189028 The problem with this response, is it's missing the point of the article. The article was bullshit, but they're wrong. The article was "Why isn't there more female models?". Essentially the guy was going
>Why should a publically owned company try and make as much money as possible? They should pander to minorities! >They should make expensive new models for the small amount of people who want them! >It's not like they've been in the business for 40 odd years and are likely to know more than me (at least now Kirby as gone) >It's not like those who WANT female models can't buy models...Oh wait, they can. At least half a dozen companies provide proxy SoB and Imperial Guard (women). Oh and it's not like an ENTIRE COMPANY is designed about providing female minis.
>playing Winter Assault campaign on insane difficulty >whats the worst that can hap- >4 guard squads can barely kill a single ork squad >that ork wave mission >a fucking squiggoth on the final wave emperor save me
>>324189770 I bring it up pretty much every thread, but i'll post it again because why not. My ideal 40k game:
>Empire at War galaxy map, with better management options/more building >Homeworld space battles >World in Conflict ground battles, though a little slower paced/harder to kill units and more fortification/base defence
>>324191292 >it detracts pretty far from the first one in terms of characters.
Not really, it has returning characters from the first game. Particularly Gabriel Angelos, Thule and Eliphas. Kronus campaign and Kaurava are mentioned fairly often
It has different mechanics, but it's still a great game. Autists just get mad over it because instead of managing xbox hueg armies you now only use small squads and don't get access to a lot of shit like land raiders.
Imagine a final fantasy tactics (or fire emblem or tactics ogre) type game.
Base units that you can recruit are Guardsmen, Adepts, Space marine scout, Sororita and Psykana.
Guardsmen may advance into arbites, squad commanders or w/e, maybe even into assassins.
Adepts can maybe advance into mechanicum adepts and the like.
Space marines scouts advance into marines (tactical, assault, devastator) and then into more specific jobs (librarian, chaplain, champion, apothecary etc). They may eventually be able to turn into dreadnoughts.
Sororita are kind of like guardsmen, but better, and eventually get some miracle bullshit.
Psykana are verymuch the WITNESS YOUR DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM type.
For non-mechanicum/ecclesiarchy mortals, they can via fulfilling special requirements advance to the ranks of inquisitor.
>>324191547 >The pc version is pretty good No genestealer AI isnt' good. They took the board game rules for single player and put used it in their game because they were lazy fucks. Shortest path to closest marine is stupid and makes the game too easy because you can easily set up kill zones that the genestealers have almost no chance of getting through unless there's a gun jam, so you keep an action point free for the auto-unjam.
>>324189770 Space Hulk (DOS) was fucking amazing and scary.
but if it was up to me: >Warhammer: Dogs of War >Open World Co-Op game with Fallout 4 elements >8-Players >Host Player is always Captain version of a class who is the only one that can access missions and manage everything else in the settlement/HQ >Player characters are mercenaries >early missions is just going out and destroying orc strongholds and rescuing prisoners >prisoners get sent to your barracks and repurposed >repurposed units get training to be supports; aerial support, extra units, etc and if they survive after the fight is over they go back to your barracks >barracks is basically your settlement where you can heal up and prep before requesting more missions from various factions
>>324189748 Lets be honest, they're not asking for female models, they're demanding female hero characters. Partly because they don't know the Sisters of Battle are a thing and also because they want generic tough bad bitch butch lesbo looking characters.
There's this weird as fuck mental gymnastics shit going on where women are just as capable as men on the battlefield, but they are just so gosh darn awesome that they can under no realistic reasons in their minds be susceptible to all the horrid shit that makes war stories so interesting in the first place.
No PTSD, no severed limbs, no bullet trauma, none of that shit, that's far beneath the amazing female heroes!
I think they ignore characters like Kat from Halo Reach and Lt. Mira from an actual fucking 40k game because they were treated as people trapped in a war instead of an overwhelming force that exists to empower people through war.
>>324185691 Show me your Dawn of War III wishlist, no matter how worried you are that Relic or Games Workshop will fuck it up.
>More factions right from the start. Don't save enormous forces like the Imperial Guard for expansions again. >Subfactions. Differentiate Chaos armies and units depending on which deity they worship. Instead of just having Cadians we could see Death Korps with near fearless infantry and shit tons of artillery. >Base building. Also let the IG build defensive trenches. >Larger maps. Not necessarily Supreme Commander size, but big enough for some large scale vehicle and infantry combat. >No unit cap, or at least one that won't get reached very early in a game. I want to see some outrageously massive Ork WAUUUGH charges.
That even never happened. It's been replaced by Shield of Baal campaign. Dante joined forces with the Necrons, but didn't trust them and planned to backstab them when the Nids had been dealt with. In the end, Dante and his forces escaped and like 70% of the fleet was destroyed. Not enough though.
>>324192405 It's a perfect recreation of the board game using the single player rules. So if simple AI pathing isn't an issue, then yeah, it's good. I get the feeling the devs are 40k players or at least know the setting well.
>>324192724 Morag-hei or whatever the name is won't happen until all Eldar are dead. The whole point is "If we die, then our God of Death will rise and kick the shit out of Slaanesh and get out Souls back so we can be free"
>>324192721 >>Larger maps. Not necessarily Supreme Commander size, but big enough for some large scale vehicle and infantry combat. >>No unit cap, or at least one that won't get reached very early in a game. I want to see some outrageously massive Ork WAUUUGH charges. No thanks
You should try reading the forge world horus heresy lore. Its done from the perspective of a high level Imperial researcher compiling a report for the High Lords of Terra on the Horus Heresy. Its fucking fantastic and theres a lot of ambiguity in some areas.
The alpha legion lore was the best way anyone could cover them.
butthurt autist detected because "not muh DoW without retarded meaningless basebuilding"
While some of the factions like IG, Orks and Tyranids could actually use a boost in squad sizes and number of squads you can use in battle, the mechanics in DoW2 are far superior to those in the first game by far. Not to mention the campaigns are also much better than the pseudo campaigns from DC and SS
>implying you dont want to be a pimping space conquistador with his own harem of eldar sex slaves >implying you dont want to explore the lost edges of the galaxy for plunder, profit and the glory of the God Emperor
"Following our victories in the Morbid Rift campaign my regiment was rewarded with service in the indentured forces of a Rogue Trader house. For over a decade, subjective, we cut a swathe through reaches of the void no man had ever visited.
I felt the heat of alien stars and trod ground no human had ever marked with its passing. I saw the ruins of ancient races that had fallen before we'd even formed our first words and I heard the whispers of dead gods on the stellar winds.
But most of all, we conquered. We took it all, in the name of the God Emperor of Mankind."- Colonel Ghib, 188th Cadian
How is it bait? Name me a single thing DoW1 did better than DoW2 except accurately representing numbers for SOME of the factions
If you think in any way having base building was a plus, you're fucking retarded. It had absolutely no purpose in game other than fucking with the pathfinding even further. It was such a non element it might as well have not been there.
DoW3 should really be a combination of DoW1&2. Keep the new mechanics from DoW2 like cover, destructible environments, using buildings for sniping/improvised bunkers, small squads for SMs and absolutely no base building for them but incorporate large numbers of troops for IG, Orks, and Tyranids, keep some of the buildings depending on the faction but also keep the hero system from DoW2 that allows you to upgrade your commander units
I love the first DoW but it has some of the worst fucking mechanics I've ever seen in an RTS
Show me one piece of fluff where Space Marines build bases and train dudes in them. Or build factories on the floor to shoot out tanks?
Orks and IG are literally the only people who might build bases. Space Marines are strike forces. Eldar uses Webways. Dark Eldar use Webways. Necrons use Webways (or have a Tomb World already). Tau use Manta's and other shit to land troops down. Nids don't build bases.
Get it? Get why DoW2 is more like the setting?
If you don't like it, fine, that's perfectly fine, but DoW2 had better cover system, better graphics, better sound. The RPG and loot system was fun.
Instead of having to build bases to actually get fighting (and deal with the retarded AI) you could jump down and get into combat straight away.
It isn't PERFECT, but it's more like the fluff.
DoW3 needs to be a combination. It needs minor base building, but it needs to be better implemented.
>>324193236 thing is that DoW 2 feels like a step down from CoH 1 and DoW 1 together >less resources than CoH >no sectors >less realistic and more cramped map layouts than CoH >less tacticool abilities like blowing up bridges, more wc3-type stuff than CoH >no weapon drop mechanic >worse attention to detail >smaller scale than dow despite having the tyranids >no global upgrades >no persistent corpses >no vehicle malfunctions >no negative cover
>>324193826 None build bases to produce units in to fight on THAT planet. At best they build defences and then leave. No chapter (unless it's ur speshul snowflake made up one) stays on the planet. They build a base, give it to the IDF, then leave. Imperial Fists and Black Templars build bases for IDF and for new recruits to try to become Space Marines. But DoW treated Space Marines like easy things to produce.
IG don't build factories on the planet to produce tanks to kill the enemies on the planet.
>>324193872 >Show me one piece of fluff where Space Marines build bases and train dudes in them.
Iron warriors. Imperial fists.
Some chapters are made *JUST* to staff a fortress monastery in some bumfuck location to protect against pirates, or elfdar, or chaos or the like. They do have strike force capabilities, but it's not like they're massive fleet based chapters that fly around and fuck things up as a tactical response team.
>>324192489 >Space Hulk (DOS) was fucking amazing and scary. >playing for the first time >havin a giggle at the commander mouths while he explains the mission >jump into the game >laugh more with the devs making the voices of the terminators >walking down the hall >suddenly a big scream and one of the cameras goes down >2 more get killed >mfw I turn arround and I see 4 genies in my face
Well sure, DoW2 could take a lot from CoH to be really great but it's also mechanically a step up from DoW 1. For one maps need to stop being literal alleys and go back to the larger maps of DoW1, we agree on that. More tactical moves like blowing up walls to flank enemies, creating artificial barriers through terrain, blowing up bridges and such. They were present in Retribution, just need to allow them in skirmishes. Also adjust unit size according to faction. Have Nids and Orks have massive numbers, but factions like SMs have much smaller numbers while being tougher. No retarded shit like techmarines building bases to pump out predators and land raiders
The best way to handle unit production for a hypothetical DoW III would be to make it faction specific.
Space Marines drop units straight into combat, no base building whatsoever.
Eldar build webway gates that they reinforce from, no basebuilding beyond the gates. Gates can also be used to transport units between them.
The first units of the orks arrive on roks, and the next thing you must do is build a tellyporta platform so you can teleport in more orks. Limited basebuilding after that, mostly fortifications.
Imperial Guard functions the closest to the gameplay of the original DoW, with buildings like barracks and tank depots, but even then most units are not actually produced in these facilities but are flown in off-site in Valkyries.
Chaos uses warp fuckery to summon units anywhere, functionally the same as the drop pods of the space marines.
Nigga, the fuck are you bitching about a game mechanic breaking lore when the game mechanic is true for some, but ends up being good for the gameplay?
I ain't advocating lore rape, but if some minor fucking thing needs to be canned for the sake of balance and equal playing field, I say go. Game devs have better shit to do than to make everyone fucking different and balancing that shit for everyone,they have a game to make.
Grow the fuck up, base building is fucking great. >>324194795 Weirdly enough, I prefered the older 2004 stuff than the current shit. Plus, somehow shit lags me up.
Is there any DoW 1 mods where they remove the squads and replace them with single infantry units ala Command and Conquer? I would imagine it be much easier to move large groups of infantry without as much pathing issues.
>>324186837 is there anything vital in the alleged shitty books or could they just be disregarded? Would very basic knowledge of imperium lore be enough to enjoy them or should I pore over the lexicanium beforehand?
>>324194868 Playing the commisar lord was fucking dope. >grab three guard squads and rush a chimera >that global ability that made your squads do more damage the more men they lost It was the perfect storm, man. The tier 3 powerfist was fucking dope, too.
Way to miss the point. When SM chapters go on a campaign they don't just suddenly go and setup bases to mass produce vehicles and SMs there. Either they already had an established base of operations there, or they bring a fleet which basically works like a mobile space-based headquarters. SMs don't just make barracks and pump out reinforcements as they see fit, neither do they mass predators and land raiders at the enemy
Same goes for the IG, unless you're on a planet with like fucking factories or something you're not going to see them pump out tanks like it's nothing
Base building in WH40k is literally non-existent and retarded. At most, maps should have pre-built bases or they should allow you to build up defenses. Nothing more because it makes no fucking sense and it fucks with the gameplay when you're able to continuously spam squads of SMs as if they were disposable fodder
>>324194379 >Give me fluff where people build a base on a planet under attack.
Night lords 2nd novel. Where night lords alongside red corsairs attack the fortress monastery of the marines errant. They cripple the generators, and eventually raid the gene-seed vaults (allowing the red corsairs to make more marines out of the gene seed).
Marines errant were founded specifically to deal with pirates in the region (this was because of a request by no less than two rogue trader dynasties to the highlords of terra). They also had a manufactorum in their fortress monastery and their fortress monastery was noted for its anti-air defenses.
Im sorry, are you lost, the Emperor eats around 5k psykers a day to keep him going, do you really think the Imperium will ever run out of men if they can't run out of rare people with connection to the warp? >>324195308 Look, different it might be, but I don't have fun playing it. I consider it bad for that, I have no reason to keep going, it feels wrong to play, maybe its cause it lags me even with almost everything low, but it just feels so...empty and devoid of feedback.
If you enjoy it, more power to you, really, but i and many others don't, and have valid reasons not to like it. Respect that the same way we respect your right to like it.
Don't bother anon, retards are too thick headed to accept a compromise like this
The only factions that ever got anything out of base building were the Eldar and maybe Necrons. Literally all buildings ever did in the first game was fuck up with the pathfinding and make it impossible for units to navigate the map
>>324195549 And when the stars fall, when all the world forgets anything ever existed, when nothing is left but the vast emptiness, what purpose will your Imperium have served if not the suffering of many? >>324195569 I'm playing the part of devil's advocate in this bit, shush, heretic.
>>324195794 Flight of the Eisenstein is needed because it sets up one of the pretty big arcs in the entire series, and Garro also caused Lion'el and the Dark Angels at Caliban to see the Imperium as the enemy by killing some of them Garro is a pretty big fuck up if you think about it
>>324195916 >And when the stars fall, when all the world forgets anything ever existed, when nothing is left but the vast emptiness Then the Warp will fall silent because there is no sentient life to fuel it.
>>324195980 How would that affect balance in a negative way? If anything, having most factions not build bases levels out the playing field, and those that do build them rely on the buildings staying intact to keep their flow of reinforcements.
Loss conditions are still the same for everyone. Lose everything you have and can't afford to replace what you lost and your game is over.
>>324195004 This has been said before and I still agree. It isn't exactly reasonable for shit like a Baneblade to be produced on the planet unless its been stationed on the planet already (which defeats the purpose of a facility) or if the place in question is a forge world.
Maps should be changed to this as well so it isn't some enclosed arena, but something like invisible walls. This can also be another way reinforcements arrive to aid in the escalating conflict if there needs to be more reasonable ways for IG, SM, Orks, Ad Mech, etc. bring in more troops from supply lines or off-map forward bases.
>>324196039 He hates both, because both harness the power of the warp and claim it as their own.
Khorne takes the Conan approach to killing. As long as you do it with your own two hands, it doesn't matter how you kill someone. Magic users are in direct opposition to this idea, because the powers they wield are not truly their own.
>>324196207 Base building was complete shit in DoW1 anyway so good riddance. Unless they completely revamp how it works then there's no point to it other than aesthetics
Admittedly using the Eldar webways for fucking with your enemies was fun, but it was literally the only building with an actual functionality that wasn't "SPAM MORE TROOPS"
Literally all Relic needs to do is increase the squad sizes for certain factions and bring back some of the CoH1 mechanics and the DoW1 maps, because all DoW2 are fucking garbage and all you do in them is run along an alley until you reach your objective
>>324196256 >Garviel Loken and Iacton Qruze were sent to Caliban to ascertain the loyalty of the Dark Angels garrison there. Loken was captured by Luther who interrogated him for information, and determined that Luther might be tainted but that he did not know of the Heresy and not to mention anything lest it be what tips Luther over the edge into betrayal. Freed by a Watcher in the Dark Loken reunited with Qruze, who was forced to shoot a Dark Angel so they could escape. They were then led to freedom by a mysterious Dark Angel who knew of the Heresy, Cypher. Wrong character but Garro's men basically led to Lion'el to openly rebel.
>>324196019 Your argument is functionally reductio ad absurdum.
Let me try >HOLY SHIT IMPERIAL GUARD BUILDING BASES IS SO FUCKING RETARDED, WHAT DO THEY DO, RECRUIT FROM THE LOCAL POPULACE THAT DOESN'T EXIST AND WOULDN'T HAVE TIME TO BE TRAINED? OR DO THEY JUST BREED THE ARMIES ON THE SPOT AND WAIT 20+ YEARS FOR THE SOLDIERS TO GROW UP! >BASE BUILDING SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN WITH IG, INSTEAD THEY SHOULD JUST LAND 20 BILLION TROOPS ON THE PLANET AND LET YOU CONTROL THEM RIGHT FROM THE START.
I mean christ, even the tabletop game lets you deploy terrain pieces, have reinforcements and units in reserve.
>>324196398 We're getting the setting, but not the 'game type'. They're doing an ARPG as an Inquisitor going around purging shit. It's essentially Diablo 40k. Obviously people hate that and don't want more 40k games so other companies jump on!
Giving SM and Chaos essentially just free reign to just drop anywhere, making Eldar just fucking spawn wherever a gate is, same with Orks, and yet making IG, the most defensive oriented guys around be delayed by base building, do you really fucking think you could even try and balance this.
Think for 7 seconds. If people could barely balance shit when everything was ona leveled playing field, with the same mechanics for everyone, how the fuck would they balance it around all of this shit.
You trust game devs today to not completely fuck this up too? Look, you can be as batshit insane as you wish to, but be realistic, there would be no way to incorporate this right. Plus, why try and revolutionize what isn't broken, when what ain't broke fuckign works great..
SS multiplayer became functional after how many patches again? Not only did it have completely retarded balance thanks to aerial vehicles, it also had the utterly bullshit broken SoBs. Yet for some reason people still think they were better balanced in multiplayer than the DC eldar
Not to mention the terrible VA, the piss poor optimization and the god awful campaign
>>324196479 He hates sorcerers, because they spend a lot of time doing nothing but looking at books and obsessing over knowledge when they could be KILLING IN HIS NAME
Psykers don't have to suffer through that. Take this smug fucker. As soon as he realized what he had to do, he engineered the exterminatus of five planets. Whatever Khorne thought of librarians before, a dozen billion skulls meant he was doing SOMETHING right.
>>324196713 >HOLY SHIT IMPERIAL GUARD BUILDING BASES IS SO FUCKING RETARDED, WHAT DO THEY DO, RECRUIT FROM THE LOCAL POPULACE THAT DOESN'T EXIST AND WOULDN'T HAVE TIME TO BE TRAINED? OR DO THEY JUST BREED THE ARMIES ON THE SPOT AND WAIT 20+ YEARS FOR THE SOLDIERS TO GROW UP! Well, SM did this on their games, troops landed from drop pods on their barracks instead of being trained there, same with eldar, troops were summoned, not trained, and necrons were revived so we assume the battle takes place on a tomb world (which is true, in DC, Kronus is a TW). My 2 cents, wasn't trying to stir up something.
No matter what you believe, it's not going to be readily apparent why one game is better than the other unless the first thing you look at is balance notes. In fact, DC's campaign is vastly superior to SS's and don't try and say otherwise.
It's fucking retarded. The simple way this can be fixed is, you build landing sites + defences and "recruiting" involves calling down reinforces. You protect the LANDING SITE, and if that's destroyed, you lose as the fleets above won't land without a proper landing site.
That's what people are complaining about, everything else is fine bar SM (regardless of the way they arrived, the entire thing wasn't need).
>>324196713 You're an idiot. I never said that factions should deploy all their units at once, but have something more reasonable than literally building barracks right on spot to mass produce units. Having some form of beacon or whatever that lets you call in reinforcements in a similar fashion to how buildings produce units is not only more accurate fluff-wise but also better mechanically simply because base building in the first game was fucking awful
So say the IG can have units to build makeshift trenches and deploy guns as defenses and then have vehicles and squads deployed onto the battlefield, rather than having dozens of buildings just blocking movement and fucking up the pathfinding
>>324196810 >would also be nice if DoW 3 had more units than dow 2 That shouldn't be hard, but unit customization would also be nice. There are more than 3 Leman Russ tank variants, in which I'd like to see in a 40k game outside of mods.
>>324197263 What you are talking about was *exactly* what the base building was in the first game retard.
The 'barracks' was dropped from orbit for most of the races, bolted to the ground so it was secure and then used as a place for squads to be 'requisitioned' (either via drop pod, teleport homer or whatever the fuck for each respective race).
>>324197216 Khorne is kind of neutral on the whole affair. He likes the work, but not the methods. well, as neutral as Khorne can possibly be
really though, if a psyker doesn't use his power for combat and goes out and kills for Khorne, he's a cool guy in Khorne's book, even if he uses his power otherwise (although ideally, said psyker would have no other time for that shit, because he should be killing for Khorne every waking hour)
>>324196932 The barracks is redundant, though. If troops can be dropped in from orbit in drop pods, why would you limit yourself to dropping the pods to a static building somewhere instead of dropping troops straight to where they are needed?
Except for the fact where they fucked up the concept of how it worked by making you sit through 30 attacks per turn. Where in DC normally the campaign took you around 5-6 hours, this time tripled in SS because you had to defend a bunch of territories every single fucking turn.
The SS stronghold missions are shit, the campaign is super tedious and the balance was broken for the longest time. Anyone who says aerial vehicles were not a mistake is either lying or never actually played the game at launch. The single biggest complaint about SS is air units and yet you dumbos are defending it
>>324197337 if they released 3 expansions, with SM, chaos, IG, eldar, tau, necrons, orks and tyranids, in the 4+2+2 model, then the third expansion could introduce subfactions like chapters, that are variations on the factions. The problem that dawn of war games face is that there's just so much stuff you can put in the game that you always will have to pick and choose, you can never have a perfect warhammer RTS.
>>324197392 >during the great crusade. During the Crusade they had jet bikes. In 40k only the Master of the Ravenwing tools about on one. They have lost a lot of technological knowledge in the 10k years since the crusade.
>it's ok for dozens of space marines and IG regiments to be trained on site out of nowhere because they dropped from the sky :^) >it's lore accurate for the IG to have portable factories to produce whatever tanks they need right on spot
Yeah I'm being the retard
Besides the most important part of this is how mechanically it's better to not have retarded useless buildings as opposed to other ways of calling reinforcements. You're bitching because you can no longer make non-functional "bases" with buildings that are only there because Relic couldn't come up with a better way to let you deploy reinforcements at the time and that only clog up the maps and make a clusterfuck of unit movement
>>324198010 >dropsite massacre Was done when "friendly" forces boxed the reinforcing marines in between them and the traitors.
>anti-air defenses. Drop pods are sent in at ballistic speeds and have various means of attempting to avoid dedicated anti-air weaponry. They're meant to be front line deployment methods, that's why some of them don't carry marines but carry a weapon system. The exact name of that variant eludes me at the moment.
>>324192721 >Basebuilding is back >The Generic Central Command buildings from DoW2 are also back, but instead allow you to recruit squads from affiliated factions (Imperium, Chaos/Orkz, Eldar/Tau, etc) >AdMech faction in full force >Galactic Campaign - instead of a cutscene throwing you to a new planet, you have to position your squads and heroes so that they can withstand multiple threats, like a WAAAGH!, Awakening Tombworld, Tyranid Tendril, etc. >Stronghold banter is back >Expansion pack brings in Knights/Titans >Instead of buying vanguard units like DoW1, exceptionally valiant performances by your surviving troop squads at the end let you promote them, at which point they become DoW2 style heroes with wargear rights, etc. >Cheat Code spawns Stormcast Eternal unit
>>324198635 >handled on the overmap without having to play any skirmishes yourself.
Except fucking not. Campaign in SS was so irredeemably broken that you would most likely lose the territory to enemy forces because of the new retarded way in which the enemy commander could move around to any territory they wanted instead of being at the last territory they captured like in DC
Meaning they also could carry their huge ass army and forward base with them and fucking crush any hopes of you holding the territory without going into skirmish
>>324197759 Yeah, it is definitely a problem trying to add everything from the table top game into an RTS. I've noticed in mods they have so much shit added but the balance is out of whack most of the time. There's so much I want but I can understand why options were kept out to keep things simple enough for a game.
I do like how some mods compromise this by doing things like having variants be possible by having it as an upgrade option. Like Choosing a Space Marine's chapter tactics as an HQ upgrade buffing the entire army, or changing the weapons on a Leman Russ tank (changing the vehicle entirely) by having the main weapon be an upgrade.
>>324198307 I imagine too much on how people would react to someone physically breaking another person's army out of sheer anger, or some kid tipping over a titan. It must be soul crushing to spend so many hours on an army that could be turned to dust in a matter of minutes.
>>324198267 I play an Iron Hands successor and I think Fulgrim's a prat and hate his warband, but I don't think you can realistically rank him that low. He has a confirmed Primarch kill (almost two but Perturabo wised up) ascended/descended to daemonhood on his own terms, and lives on his own party planet.
Am I the only one here who actually enjoyed DoW2 for what it was?
I don't understand all the autistic rage over it. It was a good game. Different from the first one, but it did some really neat things. I especially liked the way it handled SMs squads and the whole concept of looting gear and upgrading squad commanders
But this is /v/ and I guess i can't have any opinion that contradicts the hivemind of "durr dow2 was shit"
>>324199201 >Am I the only one here who actually enjoyed DoW2 for what it was? No you're not, its fun and I was actually okay with the story. I'm glad it developed into something that leaves room for a sequel, and clarified on canon endings from the first Dawn of War.
I would play an ARPG if it was kind of like DoW2, because I liked the way it plays, the hero leveling/building and looting wargear was unusually enjoyable for me.
>>324199578 >I only wanted to talk WH40k >avoid Dawn of War You're on the wrong board if you wanted to avoid that shit. OP started it as a 40k/DoW thread anyway, anyone could see that coming the moment they see the thread.
So I take it you've never actually played a Moba. Because that dogshit genre has you controlling literally one unit and it's overall a shit genre
>just clicking and using abilities
So I take it you never actually played the game? Because from what I remember DoW1 was the same, you just selected a bunch of units and then moved them and clicked on your target. Oh but of course you had shit like commanders, which played the exact same way commanders do in DoW2 with abilities and so on
Scrubs who didn't play retribution or chaos rising need not apply
>>324196585 Those books are for the Horus Heresy, the war that took place 10,000 years before present day 40k. The Horus Heresy is the reason why 40k is grimdark. Horus Rising is the first book. If you want to try vanilla 40k then I suggest the book '15 Hours', Eisenhorn, or Ravenor.
>>324199201 DoW2's campaign including expansions makes it the best 40k game ever made. No other game goes as deep into mowing down hordes of tyranids with a handful of muhreens, the corrupion of chaos, the REAL dangers of a space hulk (not just genestealers), and a host of other things 40k vidya may never touch on again. Muh Dawn of Resource does not apply here; the skirmish mode was an afterthought next to the campaign's grandeur.
How does it make you feel that Eternal Crusade is coming to Steam Early Access soon and they're trying to get people to buy Founder packs before it ends on the 25th?
Eldar aren't added yet from what I can recall, but they're coming before Orks. I can't wait to see how the dev team attempts to make Flamers, and how they'll handle skimmers like almost all Eldar vehicles and Space Marine Land Speeders.
It was pretty good, I don't see why is lower on the list than some of the other not so good books like Legion or Nemesis also as weird as The Outcase Dead was, it shun some light on how non traitorous traitors were treated. Mechanicum should not be that high. Betrayer was the best, it completly changed how I thought of Angron and Aurliean.
>>324200289 I had such high hopes for that game but the team are now planning to deliver half of what they said they would. Coupled with the creeping infestation of paid-for gameplay features (again, something they swore they'd never allow) I can't see how anyone would be excited for this garbage.
So you're one of those autistic min-maxers who felt they needed to spam abilities all the time just to progress through the game?
>4 different abilities
So you never bothered to actually change the equipment around. Redundant because you could also say DoW1 units only had the same 4 abilities >movement is just like it. Feels weightless and unsatisfactory.
Because DoW 1 movement was so much better right? The retarded pathfinding for units, vehicles getting stuck at every turn, yeah that was great
I love DoW1 as much as everyone else here but literally all the problems you listed with DoW2 can be applied to the first game because it's just such a shallow fucking game compared to other RTS. Things like cover are basically worthless. Grenades don't do shit. Movement in general is fucking awful and the worst part of the games.
Face it, you only really didn't get into it because it was smaller in scale. I could list several other actual problems with DoW2 myself
>>324201202 >The one complaint I can stomach is the poor scale. Big battles are gone in DoW2. Why doesn't anyone just tell it like it is? DoW1 and 2 are on the same scale, the problem with DoW2 is its literally dumbed down casualized shit
>>324201123 No, not really, just didn't play the normal campaign enough to unlock anything past it Got Tarkus with Missile Strikes and Grenades, played the DLC more cause I though it played better. Turns out I was right.
I did actually. Avitus with the Lascannon, Strike team with Terminator and jump spam, Comander in termie with Daemon or best nroaml with banner, and Davian with Melta. Only fun thing in the game. Actually defeated the final boss twice without the rest of the guys helping me believe it or not, just brute force it. Avitus is a beat with a Las
You aren't focusing on 4 units at all times in Dow1, you are managing entire squads, and directing their attention in mostly large, open maps. Mot of them move at adequate paces anyways, and cover is decent, if simple. Im sorry you enjoyed it and take offense on me not liking it, but truth be told, its boring as fuck most of the time, and it turned into some kind of isometric unit focused tactical game shit when I wanted a proper rts, Im sorry if me expecting this does not please you, but its just how it is.
>>324201473 Feels like it a lot, truth be told. Mostly ability focused, controling units that are mediocre by themselves, all seperate in specialization, maybe its just me.
>>324201739 No basebuilding does not make the strategy component casual, nor does less unit variety when each unit had more active abilities on average. Remember, unit management is the part casuals shy away from, not basebuilding.
>>324189770 Platinum Game where you play as Dark Eldar Archon cutting their way through Commoragh and the Imperium in arena battles, skirmishes with rivals or real space raids winning glory and fame for yourself as you upgrade your arsenal and pay Haemonoculli to upgrade your own body for better abilities and stats
Also a side menu for vanity purchases to upgrade your soldiers, the size of your Kabal, the size and glamour of your Spire, as well as getting an equally crazy waifu and pureblood kids to call your own.
>>324201195 I hear Eldar will move faster but will be more fragile due to lighter armor. Hopefully they do play that way so you look for ways to flank, ambush, etc. to avoid trading blows at a range. Then if you can't avoid a straight firefight, maybe the speed will let you strafe and dodge some of the incoming fire as you go for cover or charge straight into your enemy.
So a friend was talking to me about 40k I know the orcs are retarded but apparently they have the power to look at something and say it works (like they look at a broken tank and it magically works) Is this actually true
>>324202256 >DoW1 units regularly lose formation in chokepoints because they refuse to collide under any circumstances >a vehicle moving through infantry will send them halfway across the map as they try to move out of the way
>DoW2 units can move through friendly units but not through enemy units >the maps are larger and the chokepoints fewer >unlike 1, you can hold M2 and tell your units EXACTLY where to position themselves
The errors in unit movement and collision in DoW1 had to be micromanaged away.
This is my biggest gripe with DoW 1. The movement is horrid. Even if they don't all move at a snail pace, the pathfinding is just so fucking broken. Everything enjoyable about the game like large scaled battles and beautiful open maps goes to shit when your units get stuck trying to go around a corner.
I liked that DoW2 kept the cover system and improved it, making so that you can actually take cover behind stuff that makes sense to use as cover other than specific holes in the ground.
The biggest problems with DoW2, as much as I enjoyed it, are that first off the maps suck. Every map is a series of alleys that you must traverse until you reach the end of the map, which usually contains a boss. Even though the movement is loads better than in the first game, your fucking squads still get stuck because of the way the terrain is designed
Second, having bosses in an RTS is retarded. While it was interesting that they had various mechanics, literally every single boss battle devolves into kiting them with your heaviest damage dealers while some other unit like your force commander runs around acting as a meatshield
Retribution is actually more of a proper RTS because of how you can now get more than just your 4 squad commanders. It plays almost exactly like the first game, except that there's no base building and requisition/power is looted rather than gathered. It's too bad people don't play DoW2 because of the "hurr it's a moba" meme because retribution with the Elite mod is the closest you'll ever get to DoW1 with prettier graphics
Besides that the game is more based on tactical squad games doesn't make it any more casual.
>>324202691 >A gathering of Orks generates a psychic field known as the Waaagh!, which allows Orks to instinctively recognize who is "bigga" and therefore in charge. The Waagh! also seems to warp reality to fit Orkish beliefs, allowing their ramshackle technology to function properly. If Orks are convinced that their designs are sound and functional, the Waaagh! makes them so.
If you go on Lexicanum and search "Waaagh!" it should give you a more in-depth answer to what I quoted.
>>324202374 >solid hard facts that I don't present because there aren't any >making the game for a wider audience, when in reality the game turned out to be more complicated because of harder micromanagement and because the campaign wasn't a walk in the park anymore
>>324202691 It's a weird system where the orks gestalt will and beliefs slightly alter reality. It is based on deeply ingrained Ork Kultur and coupled with a placebo affect based on this, not on the individual Orks beliefs. Orks believe that Red things go faster and Yellow things make bigger explosions, so when they makes use of these things, it does indeed seem to enhance their respective abilities. Mechanicus Priests look at some Ork fire arms and think they really shouldn't function but that's because mekboyz are using ingrained knowledge of firearm construction to built highly sophisticated weapon from scrap.
>>324202868 Never actually had much of a issue in DoW1 with opathfinding, most I had was shit like Dreadnoughts being slow as shit and fucking things up ocasionally, but not much.
Respectfully, I didn't like the cover system at all, none of your units seem to ever fucking go into cover and just dangle outside of it or look fucking stupid.
Other than that, I mostly agree. >>324203325 Cause they ain't, at all. Proper orkz are made for fighting, and that's it, literally a biological weapon made to fight and that gets stronger the more it does.
>>324202691 Orks have an in-built psychic ability. Some are a little more sensitive than others, but in general they're all a little "touched".
So when a bunch of Orks believe in something, they're essentially pulling some subconscious world-trickery which ends up affecting reality.
Ork Trukks are painted red so that they drive faster because Orks understand that red is the fastest colour. Ork weapons that have been acquired by the Imperium turn out to be illogical because they do not physically function when worked by humans - it's the Mekboy's belief in his own abilities combined with the belief of others that allows his little deathtrap to spit bullets, rather than implode painfully.
>>324203325 Because the Old Ones, their creators, purposely programmed their thought patterns to only deal with shit in the moment. A bunch of Orks who only ever fight cavemen with sticks will never advance beyond beong orks with sticks. However if orks fight Space Marines with Bolters and Tanks, the Mekboyz will start thinking up designs to build power armour, Shootaz and Trukkz.
>>324203325 they're too stupid for that (by design) That being said, some orks actually do think they're smart, and end up being actually smart, but being smart is considered un-orky and thus doesn't happen much.
>>324202691 basically if enough orks believe something is true then it becomes so, but none of them are aware of this power so they can't exploit it
But here's a question I've always wondered about.
Humie researchers say that ork tech can't work in others' hands because it's random shit thrown together, but if say a Space Marine picked up an Ork shoota mid battle and started shooting it, would it not still work because the orks he's fighting believe it does? Would Blood Raven vehicles go faster than Ultramarine ones because they're painted red?
Isn't that how it works with Yarrick being unkillable because a lot of orks think he is or is that just an exaggeration?
>>324203549 What was retconned was the thing that previously, Orkz could all believe a stick could shoot bullets and even though there was no trigger, chamber or ammo, it would shoot.
Now, they need bullets, a trigger and basic shit, so they can't just will shit out of the Imaterium to shoot shit with sticks. Not that the gun needs to be properly functional, cause it doesn't, the Waaaagh field fixxes that.
It had far more micromanagement than DoW1 that's for sure.
It's funny how all you "dow2 is a moba" memers keep on bringing up the "casualization" argument when the series has always been casual as fuck. It's just so ironic that you keep using these buzzwords when none of you have ever actually played a proper RTS and think that just because the first game had "base building" that it was somehow less shallow
>>324203815 Ork tech works in human hands, it's just crap. It jams constantly, is inaccurate, etc. When in an orks hands it functions perfectly however. If Ork tech is really just tin cans and string why did Yarrick manage to get his power klaw working?
>>324203815 >say a Space Marine picked up an Ork shoota mid battle and started shooting it, would it not still work because the orks he's fighting believe it does? something tells me yes, but I've never read any reference to this anywhere
but as soon as the Orks leave the battlefield, it will definitely just be a bunch of scrap, that's for sure
>>324203815 It works on Ork hands cause when they use it, they believe it works and the waaagh field makes it work, once its in the hands of the son of a fucking idiot non-ork that picked it up, it loses all of its functionality and just explodes after maybe shooting twice.
Essentially, is a ork using it, and backed by a fuckton of orkz that believe it?If yes, Ork shit applies, if not, regular old logic does.
Yarrick and most commanders just went though enough fighting that they are nigh unkillable by default. Orkz are tough fuckers by default, imagine a Ork veteran
>>324203815 >but if say a Space Marine picked up an Ork shoota mid battle and started shooting it, would it not still work because the orks he's fighting believe it does? 1. A space marine would never, ever grab some bullshit gun tainted by dirty xenos because that's super mega heresy 2. Ork tech works to some extent, it just works better due to their collective psyker powers than it normally would. So the shoota would work, but not very well. Would probably jam after a few shots. It's not just random shit thrown together.
>>324198267 this list a shit Vulkan>Khan>Sanguinus>horus>Corax>Mortarion>perturabo>horus>dorn>johnson>magnus>Angron>Girlyman>Edgebatman>alpha/omemegon>fulgrim>logar>ferrus seriously half of your top list is either the reason for the HH or a giant fucking retard that helped it along.
>>324203871 >>324204008 This is the next level of rose-colored glasses. Here's a tip: DoW is not Starcraft, and it will never be taken as seriously. If you truly believe DoW2 is bad, you're evidently not in it for the 40k, and it was a mistake for you to think you were promised another game that remained equally unfaithful to the source material. It's demonstrative of acute cognitive dissonance at best, severe entitlement at worst.
>>324202164 You can play as Orks in Winter Assault, but I fucking hate WA because I'm a huge casual. I can't beat the Eldar level where you have to warp away from the Orks because I can't capture that fucking Strategic Point and my base gets rekt far too quickly.
>>324205582 It's not bad. It over uses a gimmick where it looks like the MC is dead, but it's just some random other guardsman. He dies having beaten the odds and living more than the average 15 hours that he was told is the lifespan in that warzone.
>>324205902 Wow that blows. I once read a desert themed IG novel fighting Nids and thought it was quite poorly done. Well written but poor. 15 hours sounds alright but I'd rather the MC survived similar to Last Chancers Omnibus. THAT was amazing.
>>324204943 >loyalist bias read a book faggot, literally all of the Traitor Primarichs with the exeption of Perturabo and Mortarion are petulant fucking children who should have been psychically bitch slapped not given a legion >inb4 alpha/omeme >literally listening to a cabal of aliens that want to destroy your race to prevent chaos, lead by an eldar >the fucking race that spawned slannesh and finished fucking over the realm of souls
>>324206106 I didn't mind the ending too much. I had a nagging suspicion that it was going to end with Space Marines turning up winning the day in a contrived happy ending. Actually having the guts to have an ending where nothing changed, the world was just as shit as before the MC turned up, and he's dead was refreshing.
>>324206295 >>324206338 >fag elf and wymin stronk faggots in full swing one race is literally parasites, and the other serves no purpose but to sanctify the armor of grey nights against "infection", fuck off retards.
>>324192721 Basebuilding is cool, but I'd like to keep the upgrade/wargear system from the DOW2 single player. That was so incredibly awesome.
And there's no reason why you couldn't combine it with large-scale basebuilding. Just have a few hero units with special abilities that can affect other squads, or depending on wargear/skill level, affect your troops globally. Even unlock new stuff to build, etc.
>>324207527 >i dont like something but im too dumb to think of an arugment >i'll call him pol every time, fuck off retard. >>324207625 >lexicanum kiddie the post >>324207740 >afraid of women are you implying that the sisters of battle have ever done a fucking thing of worth, by themselves, without guardsmen holding their hands in the lore?
>>324208235 >are you implying that the sisters of battle have ever done a fucking thing of worth, by themselves, without guardsmen holding their hands in the lore?
Well they're Living Saints single handedly turn the tide of battle on multiple occasions, they resisted multiple chapters of Space Marines attacking Terra during the Age of Apostasy, and they're the designated military arm of the Ordo Hereticus.
>>324208710 i would, but mecanicus gets so little writing or art work that i literally have nothing besides male magos or shit tier drawporn. its a fucking shame really because they are one of the more interesting factions in 40k.
>Decide to get around to finishing DOWII today >Reinstall, its deleted my save >"well I can't be bothered playing through half the game again, and I doubt I've forgotten that much about how to play, I'll just go straight to Chaos Rises" >That first mission on hard