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Competitive gaming that uses any RNG is trash.
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games

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Competitive gaming that uses any RNG is trash.

There are no exceptions.
>>
>>324179613
Pic unrelated? Fighter's aren't RNG.
>>
>>324179613
It's absolutely impossible to remove all randomness from anything so this is meaningless.
>>
>>324180704
you're a special kind of retard aren't you?
>>
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>>324180704
only random factor should be a player input
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>>324180924
That's not even random. Player inputs x, y happens.
>>
>RNG can't be competitive.

Well I guess that's all card-based games out the window, as well as most sports if you count Chaos Theory.

RNG is about making the most of what you got. Don't be a fucking baby about it.

>>324180704
Games like Chess can't have no random though. Every move is on purpose by the player.
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>>324179613
okay kiddo
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>>324181060
Didn't say they can't be competitive. Just that they are trash, because the player who has more skill can lose due to factors outside of either players control.
>>
Is there anyone here who can actually name a game with no RNG?
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>>324179613
That picture is stupid. In Chess, Black is at a disadvantage because it goes second. In that picture, Black also lost.

The bottom picture is a Ken mirror which is a literal mirror match.

Go look up "First-move advantage in chess" and fucking /thread
>>
>>324181275

Street Fighter games. Most fighting games actually.
>>
>>324181275
Chess. I don't even agree with OP but that's a pretty dim question.
>>
>>324181275
Any game that has a shotgun or any weapon spread whatsoever is automatically out the window.
>>
>>324181275
mario 1
>>
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Anybody who says they haven't thought about this isn't a true gamer
>>
>>324181159
If both cars are down wouldn't that be texas hold 'em?
>>
>>324181360
That's not random chance though. That's 100% guaranteed in every game of chess. That's also why chess games aren't decided by a single match.
>>
>>324181032
It's somewhat random since your muscles dont always do exactly what you want them to.
>>
>>324181501
The patterns of the Hammer Bros and Bowsers are random.
>>
>>324181567
Okay. How about both players get to move one piece at the start at the same time, then it starts alternating white and black?
>>
>>324181681
Fuck if you're reaching that far, you may as well count poor decision making as RNG.
>>
>>324181159
texas hold'em can be pretty predictable by logic fampai
>>
>>324181238
>Just that they are trash, because the player who has more skill can lose due to factors outside of either players control.


I can see it now, you're one of those obnoxious faggots who blames everything but himself when he loses.
>This game is fucking bullshit, you beat me by luck! Fucking RNG!
>The lag made me lose! Fucking lag
>Fuck that map, it's not far and balanced!

Git gud.
>>
>>324181468
Coin flip who gets to go first
50/50 chance right from the start

>>324181501
Hammer bros, fish, bowser
>>
>>324181889
it can be.
>>
>>324181275
USF4
>>
>>324179613
it really depends on the RNG. having a different assortment of items/utilities but keeping it even for both sides (like in L4D2) adds a factor of uncertainty, forcing you to play smarter.

do you search for molotovs in case of a tank or do you keep running? do you git gud by learning not to rely on said items or do you scrub up and only win because of said items?

also your pic ain't related because neither of those have RNG.
>>
>>324179613
2/10 loss comic.
>>
>>324181275
Bloody Roar 3
>>
>>324182067
2/10 loss comment.
>>
>>324181918
to be fair though, lag can drastically alter ability. try shooting fuckers with 120+ ping, and then try doing the same with 30 ping. may not seem like much but it makes a massive difference.
>>
>>324181275
Most fighting games
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>>324181918
Only way I ever lose is with bad team mates. I'm 99% of the time the best player on my team and usually have a 5-7% higher win rate than everybody in the game and consistently out farm, and die the least on my team. But alas my team will just feed and make me lose. Classic doto
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>>324181538
>>
>>324181920

White always goes first. It doesn't influence the odds.
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>>324181238
Except a good player can accommodate and play around RNG nine times out of ten.
From the way you're talking, you sound like you just lost a Hearthstone game or some shit. Just need to learn that better players have a higher win percentage by far.
>>
>>324182462
>nine times out of ten.
you realize you are agreeing with him right?
>>
>>324181538
how much do you wanna bet Le Turtle made this
>>
>>324181360

You play chess in match sets and switch sides between games.

The bigger problem I have with that pic is that it's obvious he's never played chess seriously.
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>>324182385
Who gets to play white?
Coin flip, 50/50
>b-but not best of one
Of course, the next round the opposite player gets white.
Then the 3 roun-
Oh
OH
Oh damn
Oh shit
FUCK
oh my god
Cunt
WHHHHHHAAAAAAAT IS HAPPENING ITS 50/50 again
>>
>>324179613
>tfw no friends to play fightan with

How do you convince your friends to take some time into learning fighting games with?

In my opinion it's the most rewarding feeling when you are playing with someone better than you and end up getting good enough to beat them, yet my spergy friends drop the game after losing 3-4 games like op's pic without trying anything different
>>
>>324182362
Okay, I'll bite. What's wrong with Reddit?
>>
>>324182462
1 time out of 10, the worse player wins just because.
>>
>>324182354
Get a load of this fucking guy
It must be tough farming lane and sucking dick simultaneously, faggot
>>
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>>324182612
Please leave.
>>
luck is also a skill
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>>324182609
Make them download fightcade and some ROMs, playing old games can get them into it.
>>
>>324182354
Stop playing that game. It is awful, infuriating, and you don't even feel good when you win because it was a fucking 30 minute match, that's ridiculous.
>>
>>324181440
Some fighting games have random elements, like Faust's moveset in Guilty Gear, but They're rare and their randomness is accounted for in actual gameplay
>>
>>324182612
Voting system is fucked, promotes karma whores who only post inane, LCD bullshit to get votes. There's no reason not to join the hivemind because if not your posts are going to be buried/deleted within minutes. It's literally an echo chamber
>>
>>324181275
Quake 3 Arena
>>
>>324182606


What >>324182601

said, dumbo.
>>
>>324182730
Remember, never trade luck for skill.

You can learn skills. But you never know how much in your life is dictated by luck.
>>
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>>324182897
INTO THE TRASH
>>
>>324182354

>win more than you lose
>climb ranking
>continue until you're not the best player every game

Works every time. Or you could be like every other Mobafag in the world and be drastically overestimating your own skill at the game.
>>
>>324182998
So chess is always an even number of rounds?

There must be a lot of ties then.
No one wins or loses, so everyone is happy and no hurt feelings
>>
>>324183164
Literally the only reason you're against is is because you're not smart enough to win.
>>
>>324182227
>try shooting fuckers with 120+ ping, and then try doing the same with 30 ping

If you chose to play the game with that much lag on your end, that's on you.
Don't chose to play with a handicap and then blame the handicap when you lose.
If it's a lag spike that causes you to die a couple times, then deal with it. That's the RNG of playing with a trash internet connection.
Again, these are all things you know going into a game.

>>324182354
>Only way I ever lose is with bad team mates

You lose because the other team played better than your team.

You're on that team, and you're just as responsible for the loss as your team mates.
Seems like you're a piss poor team player and care more about your personal score rather than actually winning.
You should stick to non-team based games.
>>
>Competitive gamers are trash.
>There are no exceptions.

Fixed.
>>
>>324183164
Yes, chess has many many draw games.

In fact, in theory, in a set of 1, it's thought that it will always end in a draw if played perfectly by both players.
>>
>>324183264
No, this isn't about my poor skills at chess.

This is about how you've failed to actually prove how you've broken the 50/50 curse that plagues most games.
>>
>>324182897
Aren't the spawns random? Although, I believe spawns are a sort of biased random and in serious 1v1 play on the most played maps, RNG is essentially minuscule in importance
>>
>>324183435
A coin flip isn't actually a part of the game. Why are you insisting this?
>>
>>324183164

You're being dense on purpose. There is no rng in chess. Only various statics combinations of moves. Someone who is good at it will never lose against somebody who isn't because of some outside bullshit that is out of his control.

Also Rng means random number generator, there is nothing randomly generated in chess, again.
>>
>>324183435
Fighting games don't do this. Each player starts at the exact same time with the exact same health, no RNG or advantages to be found
>>
>>324182609
With Fighting games you need at least a solid grounding in the game to even understand WHY you are losing and how to do something about it. So if you don't have that grounding it's just a frustrating one sided stomp where you never really stood a chance.

So in your mind you're trying to share an activity that you find rewarding and fun, and in their mind you're a huge asshole that just wants to kick their ass for your own enjoyment.

But the problem is that single player in fighting games is an absolutely terrible way to learn the game. Fighting AI is completely different from fighting players, strategies that work in arcade tend to only work in arcade so they don't actually get any skill. But if they aren't into fighting games and you are then playing against you ALSO won't teach them anything because your skill levels are too far apart.
>>
>>324179613
Pictures like that annoy me. A game like chess is 100% pure skill and out thinking your opponent. Majority of online video games are nothing like that. Skill is involved to certain extents, but RNG, bad or buggy hitboxes, latency, ticks, wonky mechanics, and sometimes just cheesy tactics can easily influence a fight or a game.
>>
>>324183583
How
Does
One
Decide
Who
Goes
First

>muh sets

Who goes first in the first set

>n-no RNG

50/50
0
/
5
0
>>
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>>324180234
>>
>>324183787
>>
>>324183583
>Also Rng means random number generator
don't argue semantics. obviously for the sake of this thread, rng means any random element, not just randomly generated elements.
>>
Does that mean League is a more competitive game than Dota 2 then? The only RNG in League is crit chance, while Dota 2 has a whole bunch of RNG. see Ogre Magi, Phantom Assassin, Spirit Breaker, etc..
>>
>>324183583
>Someone who is good at it will never lose against somebody who isn't because of some outside bullshit that is out of his control.

That's literally the bench mark for what is and isn't a competitive game.
RNG doesn't negate the ability of a skilled player to best an unskilled player.

RNG exists for both players, and both players need to be equally skilled at capitalizing upon RNG when it's in their favor and mitigating it when it's not.
Just like a good poker player isn't going to go broke against an unskilled player.
The cards are random, but how you play them is not, it's strategic.
There are mind games, there's reading your opponent, there's risk assessment, etc.

Poker is a hell of a lot more of random game than any video game is, and it still can be played on a competitive level where skilled players triumph over lesser skilled ones.
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>>324183978
yes
>>
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>>324179613
Then why are you posting fightan?
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>>324179613
RNG is the antithesis of skill
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>>324184145
>Just like a good poker player isn't going to go broke against an unskilled player.

This actually happens a lot.
>>
>>324183803


Great meme arrows rebutal kiddo.

Who goes first doesn't affect the end result of a perfect play. Which is a draw.

The only reason why someone would lose isn't based on numbers but on his own mistakes.

Now get out.
>>
>>324183803

If you're playing sets, you alternate until you have a set advantage of more than one.
>>
>>324181060
>Well I guess that's all card-based games out the window

Good.
>>
>>324183803
Not that dude, but you're ignoring the point. Deciding who goes first is outside of the rules of the game. It could be decided any number of ways.

The fact that white has an advantage is why the game is played in sets. It doesn't matter who goes first in the set.
>>
>>324184306
>This actually happens a lot.

No it doesn't, just because you think you're a good player and lost to your friend when it was their first time playing doesn't mean good players actually lose.
You're just not a good player.
>>
>>324184312
So a game where every game should in theory end in a draw because both players will always play perfectly...
Now how is this game competitive if every game ends in a draw?

>>324184339
Yes, how do they determine who gets first set now?
Thats the question I'm waiting for the answer of.
>>
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>>324181275
Computers cannot generate a true random number so technically there aren't any games with randomness.
>>
>>324183974

Yes and i said that in Chess there are no "random elements"
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>>324183667
That's the thing, if they actually took a few hours to sit down and play the game with me they would get used to it, but they give up on the first speedbump.

I want them to be good, I explain helpful things where I can, I don't go try-hard when I know I'm better than them. I always explain that it's super fun to play someone on your level, but they only button mash and give up because "you're better than me so there's no point."
>>
>>324184557
so who gets to play white?
>>
What game has the most rng?
>>
>>324184482
Phil Hellmuth would like a word with you.
>>
>>324184774
100% Orange Juice
Almost EVERYTHING in it is RNG
>>
>>324184667
Doesn't matter. In a set this makes no difference.
>>
Chess is the most unbalanced board game in the planet. I hear people slate Warhammer 40k and shit like that as 'unbalanced', but Chess is stupidly bullshit.
>>
>>324184774
dota2
>>
>>324182730
He right though, he just isn't explaining himself correctly.
Knowledge of probability is in fact a skill, it's why all truly good player learn about a games stats and probably distribution. For example: Dota has PRNG, if you know this and the values used, it effects every decision you make in the game. It's like if you played CS and didn't know the difference between Hit-scan weapons and missiles.
>>
>>324184597
>That's the thing, if they actually took a few hours to sit down and play the game with me they would get used to it, but they give up on the first speedbump.

Because losing to someone over and over in a game where you're fighting your controller more than your opponent is an overwhelmingly frustrating experience for most.

Executing the correct inputs every single time is difficult, and so when a player keeps losing because they can't even make their character do what they want it to do, it's discouraging.

That's why most people don't get into competitive fighting games because it's too frustrating trying to get to the point where you have a good enough handle on your character and inputs that you can actually execute strategies.
>>
>>324185002
>Not Cs:go and it's stupid RNG spread shit
>>
>>324184936
white has an objective advantage though. that's a random element. a set can easily be effected by such a large difference unless that set was over 1 million games.
>>
>>324184936
The first game in the first set, one person has an upper hand, which will always dictate the rest of the set. The player with one win up can play more recklessly because they can 'tank' the loss. On the other hand, the player who is down a game is forced to try and make up for that, so they'll either risk more or play defensively.
Either way, the choice between white or black, will affect the outcome.

I will bet if they simply asked, "who wants white first" both players will say "I will be white"
>>
>>324184504


Where did i say that every game should end in a draw? And no, it's impossible for players to always play perfectly. That's called someone fucking up/doing a bad read/play/getting outwitted by his opponent.

I don't even grasp the meaning of your last sentence. You talk as every game played in chess ended in a draw, which is, of course, dumb to say. The fact that people wins and lose makes it competitive. And no exterior element influence the win except the player's skill.
>>
>>324185153


"such a large difference"

Yeah no.
>>
>>324181783
whoever goes first after that first move would still have the advantage
>>
Lag is meta RNG.
>>
>>324185021
Hes not right though, randomness is randomness, it dosen't matter if you know you have a 50% chance of being stunned on the next hit or not because there's nothing you can do about it your only option is to roll the dice and pray.
>>
>>324184521
>the "random" doesn't exist theory
it's 1 AM here, it's far too late for me to handle this
>>
>>324185105
CS is garbage for mouthbreathing babies but the spread isn't RNG, it can 100% be accounted for.
>>
>>324185048
I fell down alot as a toddler but I didn't give up walking. I can't fucking stand the instant gratification trend that video games have these days
>>
>>324185153
>White always has an advantage
>Random

Are you being retarded on purpose?

>>324185179
Games of chess can end in a draw, so 1 player won't always be up. Regardless, the advantage of white is not huge, with some chess theoreticians arguing that black also has an advantage.

All is negated overall with the number of games played in a set giving both players an equal number of white matches.
>>
>>324183978
No it means it's less so, competitive sports have loads of RNG in field condition, wind, etc.

Lack of RNG just means less split second clutch decisions.
>>
>>324179613
Magic the Gathering and any card game
>>
>>324184825
>Phil Hellmuth would like a word with you.

I don't think he would like a word with me.
A skilled player might lose 1, 5, even 10 hands in a row to an unskilled player, but he's likely mitigating his loses on those losing hands and eventually if you play enough hands the more skilled player will win.

If the most skilled player doesn't win then how did he win 14 championships?
Did he just happening to get lucky a lot of fucking times?
That's the point though, RNG can fuck you on hands here and there and it's possible to get on a losing streak for a little while, but RNG is RNG and it'll swoop in your favor too.
It's how you capitalize on and mitigate RNG that plays a big part in whether or not a competitive player is successful.
>>
>>324184774
World of tanks is RNG on RNG on RNG. So much in that game is random
>>
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>>324185487
What is there to handle? It is a factual statement.
>>
>>324180704
>specifically generating numbers, that is, a Random Number Generator, is "every instance of randomness in a videogame"
HEY IDIOT
IT'S NOT ABOUT "GETTING RID OF RANDOMNESS"
SINCE YOU HAVE TO CODE THE RANDOM IN TO BEGIN WITH.
>>
>>324181032
Random in that you don't know what your opponent is going to do.
>>
>>324185459
if you know that X character might 50/50 stun you on the next him, and you are smart enough to know you can't kill him before he hits you 3 or 4 times then you are less likely to just roll the dice.
Know when to make that decision is key to any sport. Hail Mary plays don't just happening with people that have no idea how the game works. Sometimes you bank on luck when you have good odds, and it does pay off. It may be random, but you allowed that randomness to make or break a play.
>>
>>324185772
you know that even factual statements, even with rock solid proof still have one tiny shadow in some cases
the possibility make my dick dizzy and my head hard.
>>
>>324185586
>I can't fucking stand the instant gratification trend that video games have these days

Or maybe they don't get the same gratification from the game that you do and they don't want to invest in the game.

And it's no wonder people don't want to play with you when you have such a piss poor belittling attitude like that.
Don't shit on people just because they don't care about a game as much as you do.
>>
>>324186031
50% chance to stun means he can stun on the first hit just as likely as any other hit.

Its a complete dice roll, there is nothing you can do, you have no decision to make other than "never engage anyone with any RNG ever"
>>
Games without RNG are boring and not challenging.
>>
>>324186059
What. That's not true at all. Go back to /r/philosophy with your bullshit.
>>
>>324186369
>Games without RNG are fun and reward player skill.

Fixed that for you
>>
>>324181159
Yeah, and poker is trash. Good job proving his point.
>>
RNG really is the antithesis of competition when it comes to a virtual space like videogames where it can be effectively abolished. When you make plans, you should be able to make them based on facts and constants, not based upon guesswork and predictions.

With RNG
>Does my opponent have X? Then he is capable of Y, which will require Z to counter, but he might get lucky and proc a chance based effect, meaning that having Z is useless for me if that happens.

Without RNG
>Does my opponent have X? Then he is capable of Y, which will require Z to counter.
>>
>>324182612
The Karma system, mainly. It promotes demagoguery and stifles dissenting opinion. Also, no image hosting.
>>
>>324184504

Getting first set doesn't matter because the opponent has a symmetric set to synchronize. The only argument you can make is that fatigue unevenly impacts the side.
>>
>>324186369
Fighting games are dope af famo
>>
>>324186351
>you have no decision to make other than "never engage anyone with any RNG ever"

Or you build a game plan around the fact that any hit has a 50% chance to stun you.
So any kind of attrition based strategy would go out the window and you'd focus more on camping and strict zoning to chip away at them without taking hits that could lead to you being stunned.
In this scenario the opponent is likely balanced around their 50% stun ability so if you fight them with a proper strategy and are good you will win.

If their character is identical to yours, but just has that extra buff, then the game isn't balanced or competitive.
>>
>>324186460
A skilled player would know how to prepare and deal with the unexpected. Games with no random element are just stagnant and mentally limiting.
>>
>>324186351
I don't think you understood me,
If know that someone has a 50% chance to stun on hit, especially in dota (a game with PRNG) i'm not going to engage on him If I don't think I can kill him before he hits me multiple times. I'm going to use my knowledge of the game to outsmart and outplay him, rather than banking on good or bad luck of not getting stunned.
In some circumstances, I will try to exploit my luck when it can be exploited, this requires me knowing enough about the game to know what these circumstances are.
>>
>>324186863
>Or you build a game plan around the fact that any hit has a 50% chance to stun you.
Dosen't matter, your game plan boils down to a 50/50 RNG coin flip, you have ZERO control over it.

>In this scenario the opponent is likely balanced around their 50% stun ability
Even fucking worse, the entire character is based on a 50% RNG number
>>
>>324186616
That's not how planning works you giant fucking retard.
>>
>>324186616
>how can I reduce his RNG, and increase mine?
I'm going with dota because it's the classical example
>PA has evasion which means my attacks can't hit her sometimes
I buy MKB negating that evasion
>PA has crits which can randoms do massive damage to me
I buy ghost scepter which negates physical damage and crits when activated

I could go on for days.
>>
>>324186873

t. Never played Go.
>>
>>324187298
But you do, especially in dota, if they can right click you for a 50% chance to stun then buy a ghost scepter and they can't right click you. If you are that character then you are like to buy Attack Speed to increase the amount of stun you can get off.
>>
>>324186934
You keep saying the same thing as if there's a set number of times you need to be hit before RNG kicks and and you get stunned, this is not how it works, you can be stunned from the first attack, your chance to be stunned is RANDOM.

you cannot "exploit luck" random is random you ave no control over it.

The best you can do is try and weigh up risk vs reward.
>"If he stuns me i die but if not i can kill the whole team."
1 potential death for 5 potential kills, however how this plays out is still completely down to RNG
>>
>>324187623
But you dont, having after attack speed doesn't stop it from being random.
>>
>>324181538
Eric, simply eric xDDDD
>>
>>324180234
>enemy randomly chooses to do one attack or another
>not RNG
lmao fukken retard xDDD
>>
>>324188016
0/10

put more effort into it
>>
>>324187387
What? That's exactly how planning works. You take into account the capabilities of your opposition and go from there.

>>324187428
And what about Ogre Magi? BKB? And when that is on cooldown? Just don't get into casting range?

The fact of the matter is that RNG, just by existing, forces you into making certain decisions, reducing the amount of actual strategy needed. Just like you said, if the enemy team has PA in Dota, your first instinct is to buy a MKB so you can bypass a part of her RNG. Now take any hero that doesn't have RNG in their kit, and countering them isn't as clear cut.
>>
>>324188016
Cheap bait.
>>
>>324187743
Let me spell this out for you
first off, in dota everything is PSUEDO RANDOM, that means every time you get hit and do not get stunned the PRNG chance increases meaning you are less likely to be stunned on the first hit, than the fourth.
I'm going to assume you mean that he some how has a straight 50% chance to stun you every time he hits without some cooldown on this ability. In that chase there are many items you can buy, strategies you can use etc. to counter his RNG based ability.
>>
>>324181494
Quake, TF2, Warsow, etc. all have fixed shotgun spread as an option or by default.
>>
>>324188116
>>324188147
>no rebuttal
>"b-bait"
>samefagging
get rekt idiot, fighting games are RNG ridden shit
>>
>>324179613
>brood war
>trash

ok anon.
>>
>>324188278
but there are no random numbers generated, or at least one's that attain to gameplay
>>
>>324188132
>And what about Ogre Magi? BKB? And when that is on cooldown? Just don't get into casting range?
uh yeah, exactly. why would you even walk into the casting range of a stun you could avoid, that's just god awful positioning.

Look it's simple, good players adapt to situations that arise, bad players don't.
>>
>>324181440
Super Turbo actually has a fuck ton of randomness. Both damage and amount of stun given for any particular move are randomly generated within the set parameters for that move.
>>
>>324187298
>Dosen't matter, your game plan boils down to a 50/50 RNG coin flip, you have ZERO control over it.

There is no RNG until they hit you. What the fuck game has a character that stuffs half the time and there's no way to avoid taking hits?
You're describing a shitty game, that's all.
That's not an argument for RNG being bad, it's an argument for that execution of it being bad.

>Even fucking worse, the entire character is based on a 50% RNG number

I can't really think of a fun way that could be implemented, but having a character with RNG moves like that isn't a bad thing.
For example, if an opponent has a move that 1/9 times fucks your ass up super hard. If they get you with it, that's going to scare you.
If you're scared of that move, you're going to make sure they can't get you into a situation where they can hit you with it.
However, now you've limited the number of moves you will make and your opponent can capitalize on it.
It's like playing rock, paper, scissors, now where you've scared your opponent into never using Rock.
If your opponent will never use rock then you can spam scissors.

That's how mind games work.
>>
>>324188457
>grasping at straws
the opponent randomly chooses what attack to use so it is RNG faggot
deal with it
>>
>>324188502
There are fights you have to take part in in Dota matches though, and if that 4x multicast happens during one of those, what then?
>>
>>324188579
You're right actually, I never played ST much, 3S was the first SF where I started to actually learn the game
>>
>>324181538
Ebin meme.
>>
>>324181275
Tf2. Don't say random spread or crits because they're disabled in competitive.
>>
>>324188789
Your Veil of Discord/Pipe of Insight blocks most of the damage and you wreck Ogre.

It's like these people, despite playing fightans, have never heard of counterplay
>>
>>324188742
>Random
>Chooses

Pick one.
>>
>>324180704
Congratulations! You just won the most ignorant post of the year!!!
>>
>>324179613
>not knowing that bouncing a ball on the ground is in itself rng

there are realistically only a few things for it to do, however only a fool would say with any certainty that he could accurately predict those things 100% of the time, largely things are left to chance or "rng"

all rng means is there are a set of possibly outcomes and the computer randomly generates which outcome will come, the difference is in real life we can use intense drawn out math to sorta figure things out and make them less "random" a midfielder is not doing those equations in his head during the game though it is impossible therefore he is subjecting himself largely to randomness

you might say its different but if you just knew someone would crit you 70% of the time you can factor in about how much damage that means over a period of time, now if you are the baby that goes "WOW OMG I DIDNT CRIT HIM EVEN THOUGH IT ISNT A 100% CHANCE FUCK THIS RNG" then you are just dumb man, no hope for you
>>
>>324188789
It entirely depends on the circumstances.
If I get 4x mulitcasted and die, but because I positioned myself correctly I was able to blow all my spells and my carry lived, then I'm not exactly going to be angry.
It's like in poker if all you have is a fucking pair of 2's then you can't be angry when someone wins with a full house. I know ogre can do a lot of damage with multicast, and I'm going to build my items and play the game around that.
>>
>>324189092
>Pipe blocks 400 magic damage
>4x multicast unrefined fireblast deals 1100 magic damage
>"Blocks most of the damage"

That's not even mentioning the 2.7 second stun.
>>
>>324183164
>loses the argument
>better throw my shit around
You lost, you were wrong, it's okay to be wrong sometimes idiot.
>>
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Fischer-Random Chess is superior to traditional Chess if we're purely talking about how much fun it is to play
>>
>>324183787
If you actually read OP's post you would understand why that picture makes sense in this context
>>
>>324189286
What if you ARE the carry and, for the sake of the argument, let's assume the fight is forced onto your team during the cooldown period of your BKB?
>>
>>324188278
Go back to bait school mate, you are embarrassing yourself.
>>
>>324189542
The carrys gets fucked for not paying attention to the map
>>
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>>324189230
>not knowing that bouncing a ball on the ground is in itself rng
>tries to strawman OP
how can someone be this retarded!
>>
>>324188658
>You're describing a shitty game
Yes literally any game with RNG in it.

> having a character with RNG moves like that isn't a bad thing.
False, its a very bad thing.
>>
spawn points in quake 3 duels are random and your opinion is invalidated
>>
>>324189394
>1100/100(100-47.5) = 577.5
this is just by magic resistance
>>
>>324181275
>RTS games
>>
>>324189881
>Ogre not using veil on the team before casting spells on them
>>
>>324189881
>with barrier
>1100-400=700
>700/100(100-47.5)
374.5 damage.
Pretty large chunk, but nothing you can't recover from
>>
>>324188658
>For example, if an opponent has a move that 1/9 times fucks your ass up super hard. If they get you with it, that's going to scare you.
>If you're scared of that move, you're going to make sure they can't get you into a situation where they can hit you with it.
Gief does this better in SF with his SPD and no RNG, Adding RNG into the mix only dumbs it down and makes me less scared.

>It's like playing rock, paper, scissors, now where you've scared your opponent into never using Rock.
No its not because Rock Paper Scissor is still player choice while having a 1 in 3 RNG activation has no player choice what so ever.

RNG is cancer and only servers to remove skill from the game and let bad players occasionally defeat good players, that is LITERALLY why its there, to limit the skill gap and throw a bone to shitty players.
>>
The worst is when RNG is thrown in to artificially create "hype" moments.

A good example of this is GGXrd's danger time. It's a mechanic where when two moves clash with one another, there's a small chance that the screen will pause and a timer will count down from 3. After that, for the next ten seconds any time you hit the opponent, the hit is considered a "mortal counter" which increases its hitstun and damage by a metric ton, as well as any combo you follow up with dealing significantly more damage. It can result in situations where one player could be outplaying the opponent for an entire round, but at some point they clash and a danger time happens and all of a sudden that player who was doing well before just lost all of his life because he got hit once.

Danger time makes an otherwise excellent game markedly worse. What's even worse is that GG Xrd Revelator, the sequel, still has it. They had a chance to change the mechanic or remove it completely and they chose not to.
>>
>>324182612
gtfo
>>
>>324182825
>There's no reason not to join the hivemind because if not your posts are going to be buried/deleted within minutes
Literally /v/. You gonna have to sell me the hate harder
>>
>>324190436
I agree 100% with this, danger time while reasonably rare in occurrence simply has no reason to exist.
>>
>>324190783
IF this was reddit your post would be hidden, instead its at the bottom of the thread, and highly visible.
>>
>>324190436
Does danger time put both players back to neutral or can one have frame advantage based on the moves used?

But yeah I don't play GG but from the few times I've seen it while watching it was pretty dumb.
>>
>>324189842
>Yes literally any game with RNG in it.

Every game has RNG from your perspective.
If your opponent can move left or right, you have a 50% change of knowing what direction they'll move.
Your opponent puts in an input and it happens exactly how they had intended and knew it would, but from your perspective you are guessing what they'll do.
You're looking at the options and playing the odds.

Will they high kick or low kick?
You guessed high and they went low, you got hit.
Was it random?
No, it wasn't random as a whole, but from your perspective you just played a 50/50.

Now, if the kick has a 50% chance of stunning you then that's just another RNG element.
Now, you 50/50 if it'll be high or low, and then it's 50/50 if it'll stun you or not.
The only difference is the stun chance is random from both players perspectives.

If you're fighting another opponent, it's all random.
You don't know what they'll do, what options they'll pick, etc.
You're guessing, and you're playing probability based on a number of factors.

What difference doesn't make if the opponent meant to low kick you, but didn't mean to stun you? From your end of things, both options were random.
However, if high kick can't stun, but low kick can, then you're better off guarding low in most cases.
So forth and so on, this is how mind games work and everything your opponent does has a element of randomness.

>False, its a very bad thing.

Explain how it's a bad thing.
If you think games are won and lost by someone using an RNG based move, you're retarded and should hang yourself.
>>
>>324191171
>Every game has RNG from your perspective.
False.

Didn't even bother reading the rest since you tried to straw-man me.
>>
>>324191171
>Every game has RNG from your perspective.
>strawmaning
FAAAAAAAAG
>>
>>324179613

Are you the guy who shitposts about CS every day? Be honest.
>>
>>324190281
>RNG is cancer and only servers to remove skill from the game and let bad players occasionally defeat good players

Name me a single fucking fighting game where a bad player can beat a good player because of one lucky RNG move.

That's the biggest load of horseshit you could spew.
A bad player doesn't win as Peach in Smash Bros just because she pulled a bomb omb with her turnip grab and hit you with it.
That's super RNG, but even then it doesn't take all of your opponents stocks and end the match.
It's just a really powerful item you sometimes pull by random.

If the match was decided by the bomb-omb pull, it's because the Peach player was also a good player and the margin between you two was small enough that a single bit of good RNG over-came the gap.

There isn't a single competitive video game where you can win just because you're lucky.
>>
>>324191171
>>324191854
>samefag
>>
>>324190951
During the 3 2 1 countdown of danger time, both players can input whatever they want and it'll basically cancel whatever they used to clash INTO that normal. So what most players do is just mash on a fast hitting thing like crouch jap or kick, in hopes that it'll beat out whatever they opponent chose. You can also choose to cancel into a block.

It's weird to explain, this video kind of shows what I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKpxZLsVeBE
>>
>>324191854
>Name me a single fucking fighting game where a bad player can beat a good player because of one lucky RNG move.
World Warrior
Guilty Gear Xrd
Blazblue
>>
>>324191854
>A bad player doesn't win as Peach in Smash Bros just because she pulled a bomb omb with her turnip grab and hit you with it.
>smash
>a fighting game
>>
>>324191854
Are you retarded or do you just have trouble reading?
>>
>>324191854
>Trash bros
>Fighting game
>Trash bros
>People not losing to RNG so much they actually banned items
>>
>>324190436

If the winning player fails to adjust, that's their fault. The stakes are the same for both. Not a bad mechanic.
>>
>>324190951
Both players reset to neutral during a clash, this also applies the moment the 3 2 1 countdown ends (the game is frozen during this countdown) and Danger Time actually begins
>>
>>324191396
>>324191420

A strawman argument is where I argue against a point you're not making.
If you say any game with RNG in it is bad without first defining the perspective you're speaking from, then it's fair game to argue against that from any perspective.

From the perspective of player A, everything player B does is random.
You're not privy to what they will do, you have to guess.

If I throw out a move with a 50% chance of working, I intend for it to work.
I intentionally used the move with the intent of it working.
If it fails, how then is that any different from me failing to guess whether they would block high or low?

You can shit post all you want about how computer generated RNG is bad and ruins games, but player generated RNG doesn't, however it doesn't make for a compelling argument.
>>
>>324191607
No, CS doesn't have any random factor.
>>
>>324181060
>Well I guess that's all card-based games out the window

That's correct, that's why Poker is labeled a "game of chance" and therefore gambling and therefore illegal outside of sanctioned venues (if played for money, obviously)

>chaos theory
Most sports try to reduce randomness by setting standard conditions for the field, swapping sides half way through the game, playing indoors or only during certain favorable weather conditions, and two teams playing against each other multiple times in a series to try to rule out one team "getting lucky" or "having a bad game".

Randomness is a design limitation, it's a poor substitute for a complete system, it exists as a quick and dirty way to derive an outcome without doing complex or time consuming calculations or activities.

There's absolutely no excuse in this day and age to have randomness determine anything (not even who goes first, do a mini-game or some shit for that).

Any game that uses RNG is pure garbage.
>>
>>324192201
>World Warrior
>Guilty Gear Xrd
>Blazblue

No.
I don't play any of those games, but I can guarantee you that I couldn't pick any of those games up and beat the world's best players at those games no matter how many times I play them.

To say that a bad player can beat a good one by luck in any competitive fighting game is an exercise in stupidity.
That doesn't happen, it has never happened, and it will never happen.
>>
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>>324189820
sup op, you are still wrong
>>
>>324184774
Binding of Isaac
>>
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>>324192020
>>324192265
>>324192296
>>324192402

>Shit posting

Welp, I guess that's how you know you've made a good argument when the only responses are memes and shit posting.
>>
>>324181538
Reminder that these faces were acceptable on /v/ at one time.
>>
>>324193590
reminder that cars without power steering where acceptable at one point
>>
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>>324183787
>getting mad about ticks and "cheesy" tactics

Lel
>>
>>324193549
>Gets BTFO
>Y-you g-guys are just s-s-shit p-posting
>>
>>324192512
>The stakes are the same for both.
>Player A just spent all his time outplaying Player B
>Can reasonably take more risks because he played better and has more health in reserve
>But nope danger time out of nowhere
>Is now on even footing with Player B who did jack shit to earn it
This is the definition of a bad mechanic
>>
>>324192265
I have been playing Smash since its inception and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen this happen.
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