Why is Doom 2 not as loved as much as Doom 1? Also: http://s

>>324169646
Because the maps weren't as good. On the bright side, it had the super shotgun.

i prefer doom II, i guess because its the first one i played and i know it better.

I prefer Doom 2 because original Doom monster set is actually pretty boring, but 2 has some of the coolest monsters ever to star in an FPS to date.

>>324171309
>>324171565
Fucking hipster faggots, Doom II is literally an expansion pack. Fuck you.

>>324171165
Pretty much this. The new monsters also mix things up nicely. It's nice to see at least the wad makers made good use of them.

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Vanilla Doom 2 has worse level design, but better weapons and more enemy types

Easily fixed with modpacks though

>>324169646
As other people said, it's mostly because of the map design.

The new shotgun quickly became everybody's favourite though.

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i'm glad everyone likes cacodemons the most

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>>324172395
I'm disappointed skellingtons are not getting enough popularity.

>>324172607

give it time, skelebro

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post yfw BFG 9000 for the first time

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>>324173178

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>>324173178

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>>324173178

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>>324173178
My first time, I saved it exclusively for cyberdemons and normally fired it from halfway across the map. I was not impressed.

I didn't understand the true power of the BFG.

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>>324173178
I will never forget the summer I was introduced to doom and bone thugs.

>>324173626
>mfw I tried to use it by sidestepping in a room, firing it and dodging to cover to kill hitscanners
I love Doom, but the original BFG probably has the most obscure firing mechanics ever put in an FPS.

Doom 2 is better for wads because it has super shotty + better demons. But the vanilla level design is fucking terrible. The city maps in particular are barley even playable

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>>324173894
>unplayable

>>324174123
>implying I said it was hard
The level design is nonsensical trash. I didnt say it was hard, its just not fun.

No rest for the living is great, but its not part of the orginial release

>2016
>not knowing that Knee Deep in the Dead > Inferno > Doom 2 > Shores of Hell > TNT Evilution > Thy Flesh Consumed > Plutonia

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>>324171809

>>324174624
>Knee Deep in the Dead
>literally babby's first Doom
Why>

>>324174732
Because the level design is the most fun despite being easy.

>>324174624
Swap Inferno and KDitD
Swap TNT and Doom 2
Get good and bump Thy Flesh Consumed 1 rung.

>>324174732
I think the lack of hoardes of enemies is balanced by fewer weapons, fewer health packs, and less ammo. Its not necessarily much easier than episode 3. Episode 4 has kind of a difficulty spike though

Final boss is a wall

>>324175223
To be fair, Doom 1's final boss was a pushover. At least the wall was a better boss fight.

>>324169646
Because yesterday Romero released his version of E1M8 and despite only having 5 enemy types the level is both hard and very engaging, level design is also pretty cool.

>>324169646
Doom 2 is the only doom for me.

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>>324175479
>implying
Cyberdemon>mastermind>>>wall

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>>324173178

>>324169646
Generally worse maps (though a few, like Tricks and Traps, are better than most of Doom 1), generally worse music, and the super shotgun is really unbalanced.

>>324171165
I'm with you, Doom 1 had much better maps, but Doom 2 had the super shotgun and some cool new enimies.

>>324172015
I sometimes prefer not having the SSG. Drawn-out Shotgun fights can be fun.

>>324175861
Spider Mastermind died in 3 shots from the BFG 9000.

>>324175861
>Mastermind>>>wall
Literally just a chaingunner with more health. Plasma Rifle makes mince meat out of this "boss"

>>324176476
Correction, 1 shot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPGc1izbIyI

i just think of them as the same game

>>324175861
Spider Mastermind is lame. You just look at him and hold the trigger till you win. You at least had to move around and think a little to beat the wall. Only thing spidey has going for him is the awesome theme music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPMVyp7LwIo

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>>324169646
Played both this year for the first time.
I'd say it's because levels in Doom 2 were very mixed bag, like Episode 4. Also making game spawn army of monsters and dropping invincibility orb at entrance gets old already the second time.

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>>324173178

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>>324173178

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>>324177171
fuck you just reminded me of that stupid cowadoody'd pulse rifle from the upcoming Alien sequel with the quad rails and dot sight

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>>324178087
Wait what

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>>324175557

thanks anon, this is a great list

>>324175557
TL;DR H-Doom and /pol/.wad better be on that fucking list

>>324180709
Of course they are.

>>324180804
glorious

Post some hentai Doom.

>>324181404
this desu

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>>324181404
/v/ is a family friendly, safe for work board

Doom 2 did encounters way better. Doom 1 had way too many rooms that were just imps or just one other enemy. Doom 2 gave you big open areas and fights with all sorts of different enemies working at the same time, which is pretty much the basis of how this sort of gameplay is meant to work.

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>>324173178

Who /notpickingupinvulnerabilityonpurpose/ here?

I just installed the new GZdoom build and now my Use key, no matter what I bind it to, will work.

Tha fuck?

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Anyone here using ZDL? I can get it to run basic WADs (Hexen, Chex, Doom, etc) but Alien Vendetta, and DoomRL won't run, it just loads vanilla Doom2.

What the fuck?

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>>324184808
>using gzdoom instead of zdoom

>>324173178
>play Quake 2 first
Many times I wished it would deal collaterial damage like Quake's BFG10k

>>324176476
wall dies with two rockets

>>324184808
If everything is working then what's the issue?

Just kidding. It seems perhaps the new version of gzdoom is the problem. I'm on the /vr/ thread right now and two people seemed to have an issue.
>>324186264
What's the difference between the two? All what I remember was supposedly gzdoom has better lighting while zdoom closer emulates the originals lighting. If I remember correct zdoom is also better for multiplayer while it also has more wads available for it.

Is this correct?

>>324169646
Doom 2 is generally loved far more than doom 1

ssg, more enemy types, etc

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Who here thinks sg>ssg?

>>324174624
Why is Plutonia last?

Are you some kind of scrub?

>>324174624
How the fuck do you have Plutonia at the bottom? Both Plutonia and TNT are better than Doom 1 and 2.

>>324188403
>What's the difference between the two? All what I remember was supposedly gzdoom has better lighting while zdoom closer emulates the originals lighting. If I remember correct zdoom is also better for multiplayer while it also has more wads available for it.
>Is this correct?
No, they use the exact same multiplayer

You're thinking of Zandromum, which is based on GZDoom and adds server-based multiplayer but is usually many versions behind the latest GZDoom

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>>324169646

>>324175557
No brutal doom? But It's easily the best one.

>Romero releases a map recently
>mfw he still has it

>>324189358
If by best you mean worst than yeah

If you want the game to look nicer and with egdy gore Smooth Doom is way better

Am I a pleb? John Romero's new E1M8 fucking kicked my ass.

>>324189487
If I wanted to play a Doom for the graphics I would just load up my beta for the new Doom multiplayer. At least they fixed the god awful artstyle of the originals.

>>324189750
But that's the thing, Smooth Doom doesn't alter the gameplay at all while Brutal Doom shits all over it

>>324169646
Great, a Doom thread.
I've never played the Doom games for some reason, where should i start?

>>324189843
I started using Smooth Doom this weekend and I love just about everything it adds
Brutal Doom is just way too obtrusive and unbalanced

>>324169646

I love both to death but there's just something about the first's levels that keeps me coming back over and over again.

>>324189843
Brutal fixes all problems of the original.
Smooth is just a shitty graphics mod.

Somehow graphics are so important in doom that people like you will excuse its dated gameplay.

>>324189750
Do you hate colors?

>>324190020

Just play in order. It's the best way.

I'd say DOOM 1 and 2 and then hit some alternate .WADs. Try Brutal Doom. It's good too.

Then, go for DOOM 3. It's alright but not quite the same. Still enjoyed it though.

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>>324189750
>turns artstyle into Literally 343 Halo
>fixed

U wot m8

Shit like Back to Saturn X looks 3,000 times more interesting and it's nothing more than a mapset

>>324189358
>>324189487
>enemies exploding into pieces of gore when shot
>separate keybind to flip a bird and say "go fuck yourself"
>ability to do double flip
>Commander Keen in Grosse replaced with Justin Bieber
I was genuinely surprised that author wasn't 12

>there will never be another maze-like shooter in your lifetime

Fuck this, where are the game dev threads. I know what I'm doing this year.

>>324190260
Well, if you really think iron sights and BLOODY SCREEN SO REAL and finisher animations add so much to the gameplay, you do you m8

>>324190020
Doesn't matter, might as well start from the beginning. The gameplay is identical in all of them and all of the main games have their good and bad maps. If you like the gameplay you'll probably like them all.

>>324190020

Oh, almost forgot. Don't forget DOOM 64. It's actually really fucking good. Gets overlooked a lot though.

>>324190020
Play Ultimate Doom and Doom 2. Final Doom if you think you've got gud. Doom 64 is also very good. From there you can branch out into the huge world of fanmade mapsets, called Megawads

>>324190317
>>324190529
>>324190572
Thanks guys.

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>>324173178

>>324190662
I'm going to get shit on for this but the best way to play them with through ZDoom because of 60+ fps, just try to remember not to jump because the levels weren't designed for it at all

>>324190495
>there are already more maze-like shooters than you'll ever want to play
Doom has thousands of WADs and dozens of clones, many of which have their own arsenal of user-made content. I'll recommend one right now: you ever play Marathon, anon?

>>324172172
I loved the SSG then, I hate it now. It's slow as fuck and it's less versatile. It puts out more dps and if someone's bigger you get a 30% damage boost from the 3 extra pellets per shot compared to the SG. It is good for taking down big bads, but they trend towards being less common enemies. It's 30% damage boost is wasted on smaller enemies especially at distance as the pellets are not as tight and controlled as the SSG, which always puts the 7 pellets in a horizontal line midcenter of the enemy. The SSG kind of has a 'square' that all the pellets go in instead. So sometimes it's better to even use the SG.

>>324176646

How?

>>324190764
I just turn all the non-vanilla shit off.

>recommend Doom to a friend
>tells me he likes it
>when I finally see him playing it, he's playing ZDoom with jumping, crouching and vertical mouselooking
I should've said something before this happened. But then it was too late. I had to take him behind the shed with the shotgun. It was the only way. I'm sorry Chris, but it's better this way.

Anyone remember that one map that was a maze with archviles?
That one was fun right

>>324191080
There's literally nothing wrong with mouselook except in MAP30

But it's kind of a shitty bossfight anyway so whatever

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>>324173178

>>324191080
>>324190771
>>324190764
If you're new, remember to use the following settings:
>vertical aim off
>jumping off
>crouching off
>always run on
Anything I'm forgetting?

>>324191148
I was playing Plutonia with cheats and even then that level made me shit myself

>>324191291
He means vertical mouselook, I don't know why anyone would do that because it looks terrible, and it's so much comfier to just look at the sides

>>324188403
gzdoom is literally GL zdoom. That's it. Lighting/rendering differences. Older versions of gzdoom had mostly incorrect lighting, newer versions are not flawless but emulate the software lighting pretty accurately but smoother. Zdoom also allows you to scale down to super low doubled pixel resolutions. Why would you lower resolution? Eh, really only gameplay accuracy for shit like invisibility which becomes all but useless at anything higher than 320x200 and has no GL effect equivalent which produces the same lack of clarity, despite multiple effect variations that attempt to do so. Each variation is still absurdly clear in comparison, making spectres useless and invisibility in DM worthless. That's really about it really. But it's very impactful in many situations, like the end of E1M9 in Doom where the ground is textured in a way to be completely noisy and there's like twenty five pinkies that descend upon you from all different directions and you can run into one without even seeing it. It changes things those things up in a huge huge way. It's a slightly different but similar game without it.

>>324191080
edgy

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>>324173178

>>324191361
Vertical aim is okay, really.

I'll never get this autism about not having that.

There's too many encounters in maps especially fanmade ones where there's monsters that can attack you with impunity but you can't see them because they're up on a ledge.

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>>324169646
>http://strawpoll.me/6558294
>tomato demons winning

>>324191034
Get super close and all the tracers will hit the mastermind

>>324191494
Edgy? You think I'm proud of what I did? I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation. He even had a crosshair, for God's sake! I did what had to be done.

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>>324191493
I'll also add this to enhance the point about the spectres. Go ahead, count them, there's at least ten in this image.

>>324191291
>Nothing wrong with mouselook
Anon you do realize this makes the rocketlauncher much better in general because you can directly aim where the splash damage is, right?

You also realize that autoaim range is not infinite therefore there are enemies you aren't really supposed to hit unless you're at a specific range right?

Enemies are also infinitely tall just so you know.
Mouselook makes this a nonissue.

You can play what you want but you have to understand why mouselook is potentially abusable and breaks design.

>>324191621
What is this, SNES Doom?

SNES DOOM looks worse

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>>324191362
>yfw shooting archviles point blank hoping they get stunned before they hit you

>>324191540
It looks awful and there's vertical autoaim for a reason.

>>324191080
There's nothing wrong with vertical look, as long as you disable autoaim.
Jumping can break levels, I give you that.
Not sure what crouching does.

>>324191727
No, read the post it's attached too for context. Also, yeah it does.

>>324190507
This is just as cringy as those kids who claim to only like the beatles because modern music is shit and they were born in the wrong time. Grow up you mong.

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What are some good wads/mods/whatevers that add more monsters?
I've been using Doomrl monsters but it has issues

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>>324173178

>>324191714

>You also realize that autoaim range is not infinite therefore there are enemies you aren't really supposed to hit unless you're at a specific range right?
The range is still way higher than you can see.

I'm sorry, I derive no enjoyment from shooting at a wall and hearing monsters yell in pain because they're above the screen.

>Enemies are also infinitely tall just so you know.
Only for player movement collision, not for attacks/projectiles.

>mouselook is potentially abusable
Just like shit like SR50 is abuse. Who cares? The only map it genuinely breaks if you use it is the final boss of Doom 2, and most people think it's a shit boss regardless so not much is lost

>breaks design.
Only in stock maps, but I play more than doom2.wad after a while, y'know?

>>324191765
>It looks awful and there's vertical autoaim for a reason.

Did you miss the part about there being many situations where it's not enough?

Play Back to Saturn X. You're going to wish you had mouselook after a while.

It's not like I use mouselook all the time, I have it bound to a key and it;s only enabled when pressing it

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>Play a megawad.
>Very good level design and interesting fights.
>Suddenly it all goes out the window and everything becomes slaughtermaps.

What are some good level or monster wads for GMOTA i love the gameplay but i just need something aside from replaying doom I and II with it on.

>>324173894
I really liked the bigger or city levels in heretic and doom. They were so fucking eerie.

>>324192025
I've always wanted to try playing Sky May Be
It looks really fun. Even god mode can't keep you from dying.

Is there a computer that can run nuts.wad on opengl yet?

>>324192139
>Play Back to Saturn X. You're going to wish you had mouselook after a while.
Could it be that it was designed with mouselook in mind? I almost never felt that the autoaim wasn't enough in 1, 2 or Final.

>>324169646
I prefer Doom 2 cause I got it first and played the shit out of it as a kid.

>>324192298
The visuals isn't what makes nuts.wad lag, it's the AI calculation for all the monsters

GZDoom/ZDoom can actually run nuts.wad great now because they have better garbage collectors

>>324192371
It wasn't, it's made to be vanilla compatible, but you're still going to be frustrated as fuck trying to shoot revenants on a ledge 20 feet high from only 20 feet away from the wall.

>>324189619
No it's definitely a hard map. I tested it out on easiest and even then I thought it was surprisingly challenging. I will play it on uv pistol start next.

>>324192139
>The range is still way higher than you can see.
No it's not. Autoaim distance is 1024 units, bullets go 2048 units. Default map view distance according to doombuilder is 3000.

>>324190507
Only two of those are ever really an issue and in reality only one is definitely an issue that can't be avoided. I feel iron sights adds to the great gameplay already present.

You brutal doom haters are just obnoxious. Doom was meant to be brutal.

>>324188703
All of doom 2 is balanced around the super shotgun, so it's hard to use both.

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>>324173178

>>324192484
>It wasn't, it's made to be vanilla compatible
So it was designed around not having mouselook but is full of parts that don't work properly without mouselook? Sounds like a good wad.

>>324192484
Garbage collection was the problem all along? Wouldn't have guessed.

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GODAMN WHERE THE FUCK IS THE JUMPSCARE REVENANT GIF NOBODY POSTS IT ANYMORE I LOT MINE I WANT IT BACK.

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http://40.media.tumblr.com/630822893d5a6c2fbd93fe8abdbbd323/tumblr_o116ozll8a1rsmupto5_1280.png

>You will soon be able to rape this whore in HDoom

>>324192885
Small dogs are so cute. They're like cats.

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>>324193031

>>324193117
Pain elemental?
I can't tell what it is

DooM II because of bigger maps and SuperShotgun

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>>324193272
yes, finally back in my folder.

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>>324192794
Also inside room cieling to floor height is 128 units. 1024 units is only 8 times that distance.
I lost the link but there's a youtube video which shows all sorts of effects like that maps. There's a map with a bridge that goes out and has demons on both sides and you literally cannot autoaim at the enemies unless you go onto the bridge in the open.

>>324192998
It is.

Not being able to mouselook doesn't break it, it's just annoying. And there's definitely parts of the stock Doom/2 maps that are annoying because of it too.

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>>324193272
>>324193272

>own meatball and tomato plushes
>tfw no skeleton

>>324193517
Well then don't fucking use mouselook at those parts.

It's most useful for close encounters like monsters being on a ledge above you that you can attack with autoaim just fine but can't see, I never use it for long range shit

>>324193661
Did you get them from the Bethesda store? How's the quality, worth the price?

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I never liked Doom. It's so weird to play a shooting game without a mouse

>>324169646
Guess you can say it was... Doomed to fail.

>>324193912
Are you baiting

Doom had mouse support since Day 1

levels aren't as good and are kind of gimmicky thats it

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>>324193912
You can use a mouse with Doom. Romero used a mouse. Assuming it's Romero but if it's not, whoever shot the demos you watch when you leave the game, was using a mouse. Mouse is part of the game and it supports 'modern controls' that are rebindable even, almost perfectly except for Y-axis movement on the mouse moving forward and back as well. Otherwise, yeah it works like normal. Sourceports like Chocolatedoom and Zdoom let you disable Y-axis and thus you have perfect controls for it.

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>>324193661
>no fat fireball succubus(man) plush

>>324191778
I remember there being a few levels where you could sequence break by crouching. You can slip through some low windows and hanging walls with crouch.

>>324194198
Even in the DOS days there was a program you could execute before Doom that would disable mouse Y-input entirely

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>>324194205

Been playing the shit out of Doom recently. GZDoom + Smooth Doom + pk doom sfx.

Just finished the original, not I'm going through 2. plan on playing Plutonia and whatever that other Final Doom wad is after. Then on to community made stuff.

Video of someone with mad skills beating Romero's new map on Nightmare when

>>324194292
Sure, I'm not suggesting there wasn't. I'm just saying without anything stock Doom has that a problem but otherwise way ahead of it's time for input.

>>324193912
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9evdc_k7wyo
Also here's a loop/attract mode. The person playing it is shit for this particular one, but watch the movement. Sometimes it's a little odd but you'll notice that the turning speeds change up more and is faster and more accurate than keyboard. A mouse is why. You can watch some of the other ones, a few of the demos are actually pretty decent. They have different demos playing with each version.

>>324194707
Also here's the link to the various in game demos.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2938B188ABB3B33F

41 in all over the versions and game/expansions.

>>324193806
The quality's nice; they're soft as fuck. $15 is a bit much for plushes, but I think I got them on sale. The pictures are exactly as they look so if you like em and you're a big enough fan, then go for it if you want.

>>324195060
Don't buy garbage from Bethesda you fuckin retard. Pay someone locally to make a custom one for fuck sake. People do that shit in their spare time, they can cash off it and whatever and you're not handing money over to a scummy corporation.

>>324195316
There is literally nothing wrong with Bethesda. You just don't like Fallout 4.

>>324195459
There's literally everything wrong with Bethesda. You just like Fallout 8.

>>324192257
This, I don't understand why people shit on the city maps. They brought a new atmosphere to the game, and it was fun exploring big open areas for once instead of another series of winding hallways. Maybe they don't have the same "flow", but that's a perk rather than a necessity. I like getting a little lost sometimes, and I don't mind being sniped at from across the map. I like feeling like the littlest guy in a big, scary place I probably shouldn't be in.

>>324195316
>pay someone local to make a custom one that likely won't even be as well-made for more than double the price

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>>324194205
>mfw they appear in Serious Sam 3
>their rockets can destroy cover
>when low on health they spam rockets often killing their own in process

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>>324173178

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>>324195910
Scrapjacks were a fucking wonderful addition of Serious Sam. I can only hope they return.

>>324196030
I must have watched the simpsons a dozen times in my years and I never noticed that

>>324195671
It was a pretty good feel
>just saved humanity, I am the last person on the planet
>waiting for death
>suddenly I have to go to hell again to stop the demons, motivation suddenly triplifies
>I spawn in a vast open city where the music starts very quietly, that feel when you're all alone overwhelms you, the kind of feel only early 3D games manage to give

>>324195671
I think some of them are kind of OK, but shit like Factory is hardly excusable IMO when most of the map is just a giant shoebox with literally nothing outside of a couple of "buildings". Like, I still have no idea how it ended up being in an actual game.

Also chaingunners on Downtown are very annoying if you play without vertical aiming. A lot of people tend to dislike them already on a principle of being really damage-heavy hitscanners, and here you have them in a position where your auto-aim can't even catch up with them - and they don't have such a disadvantage.

For example of well done city maps, look at Plutonia and its "Odyssey of Noises". Or at Hellbound.

HDOOM UPDATE
FUCKING
WHEN
JESUS CHRIST MY COCK CANNOT CONTAIN ANYMORE

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Talking as someone who LITERALLY just before I opened /v/ and saw this thread just finished a playthrough of DOOM 2:

Worse levels and worse enemies apart from Hell Knights and Machine Gun Guys.

Many levels especially in the second half of the game are way too long and convoluted. Maze puzzle solving is great in DOOM 1 because there aren't big open areas with tons of shit. In DOOM 2 you have to find a lot of "hidden" things to progress at all, whereas you generally could play the entirety of DOOM 1 without really getting lost in the mazes.


>Pain Elementals are shit (mostly because Lost Souls have slightly too much HP I think).

>Arch-Viles are the biggest cancer known to man.

>Hell Knights are great since the Baron of Hell is too tanky to be kind of normal enemy and there needed to be another mid-range monster.

>Machine Gun Guys are good and they're not too overused.

>Revenants would be totally fine if their missiles weren't fucking manganized to your face.

>Mancubus are not bad, but they're not great either. Pretty boring to fight.

And in my opinion the Super Shotgun is less satisfying and less interesting than the normal shotgun, but you're gimping yourself a lot if you choose not to use it.


The biggest thing that annoys me with DOOM 2 is that wad makers just go "lets put the worst most bullshit enemies in the game in big ass groups and call it difficulty." So many maps that are considered to be really good that are have dozens of Arch-viles and Mancubus and Revenants all together and are just there to shit on you. That shit ain't fun.

>>324171165
>On the bright side, it had the super shotgun.
The super shotgun was shit though. So much less satisfying to fire than the normal shotgun.

Also, all of the new monster types in Doom 2 except the Hell Knight, Mancubus and Arachnotron were fucking terrible.

>>324197014
fucking gun hanako down and don't look back fucking do it pull the trigger

>>324197046
>>324197014 here totally forgot about the Arachnotron

It was alright actually. I personally don't like the visual design of it but they were okay to fight.

>>324197014
>"lets put the worst most bullshit enemies in the game in big ass groups and call it difficulty."
that's what happened when they balanced the game around the super shotgun.

I can guarantee that if the ssg did not exist there wouldn't be all the obnoxious revenant spam and such and force the designers to be more creative and intelligent with mobs.

>>324197014
>Lost Souls have slightly too much HP I think

Lost Souls being changed to a low HP, high aggression enemy in Doom64 was fucking great and I wish it carried over into the modding community.

>>324197046
I disagree. The SSG's only sin is being TOO good, to the point that it's all most people end up using 90% of the time.. It's retarded powerful, doesn't eat all your ammo, and is fun to use.

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>>324197014

what thas the painting in the background called?

>>324192160
>AV.wad
>SoD.wad

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>>324197458
Rainbow Wizard

>>324197384
>doesn't eat all your ammo

>>324197680
it really doesn't. Shells are common as fuck.

>>324197680

There tends to be a LOT of shotgun shells lying around.

>>324197746
>>324197807
>doesn't eat all your ammo

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>>324178579
feast your eyes

>>324197841
git gud

>>324197680
>more pellets per shell
>more damage per same ammo use

>>324197892
He's right. There might be a lot of ammo but it still uses a lot.

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>mfw people play with vainilla sounds
>mfw people dont mod in the PSX/N64 Superior sound effects

>>324197014
>Arch-Viles are the biggest cancer known to man.
I don't think I've ever read an opinon that dumb.
>Mancubus are not bad, but they're not great either. Pretty boring to fight.
Mancubi are great at punishing mindless strafing without being revenants or using some other convoluted mechanics. One fireball flies at you, one flies slightly at a side.

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>>324197604

thanks, i lost my sides the first time i saw it ingame, and still losing my shit with the edits.

>>324197680
It really doesn't, unless you're determined to kill everything in every level but somehow missed picking up ammo. Most players, myself included, used the SSG probably more than twice as much as any other weapon. The fact that that's even possible shows that ammo isn't much of an issue.

>>324197892
>Skill effects programming and mechanics

>>324197014
>Machine Gun Guys are good and they're not too overused.
are you going to play final doom? your opinion on chaingun guys might change...

>>324198002
Pissed off Martians suck ass dude

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>>324198091
>implying shotgun shells aren't so ubiquitous throughout doom 2 you can't get away with using the super shotgun 100% of the time

>>324198002
I can kind of agree with the Mancubus, but I don't I'd like to hear your argument for Arch-Viles being a good enemy. They're tanky as fuck, do a shit ton of damage, and require you to completely change your strategy (which would be a good thing usually but hiding behind a wall and waiting is not fun).

If they had lower health and fired a fire projectile I think they'd be good. Maybe more of a dedicated monster respawning role than a fuck you the hell up role.

>>324197604
So this thing is from Cripple Fucking Simulator? Jesus.

>>324197861
M41A is so fucking ugly. Smartgun, on other hand...

>>324198190
They have a great hitscan mechanic, plus their appearance and sounds are genuinely unsettling.

>>324196087
wut? i beat this game on serious difficulty and don't remember ever encountering that

>>324198173
I've never played Final Doom, no. I was just talking about Doom 2. (and this wasn't my first playthrough of doom 2 or anything, I was just replaying it).

I'll probably play Final Doom at some point here soon.

>>324197861
what's even purpose of top rail, if you attach sight to carrying handle anyway?

>>324198287
>If they had lower health and fired a fire projectile I think they'd be good.
like revenants?

>>324198046
>playing Doom without murdering the ever living shit out of all things
Does my computer room look like the main lobby to the games done quick event? No? Guess why.

>>324198287
>They're tanky as fuck
3 rockets is really not terribly tanky by Doom standards. I agree that they aren't good if overused, but as a high tier enemy they're very good. Something to put the fear of Satan back in you.

>>324198395
Mods.

>>324198302
While that is true, they are just so fucking unfun to fight, and piss easy to avoid.

>>324198484
Well, they're fairly often in enclosed spaces where using the rocket launcher isn't that great but I get your point.

>>324198409
Good point, but if I designed them I'd base them around their monster revive mechanic rather than being a main damage dealer.

Doom 1's level design is a lot more consistent.

Doom 2 has some fantastic levels, but it also has a lot more that are just a chore to play through.

Also, anyone that's been living under a rock, go check out John Romero's new E1M8. Pistol start it for maximum fun.

>>324198546
>While that is true, they are just so fucking unfun to fight
I like fighting them with the SSG, trying to painlock them and break their attack.
>piss easy to avoid
Most Doom monsters are?

>>324198608
In close combat use SSG (it does RL damage point-blank anyway) or PG. BFG one-shots them (obviously) if you have it.

>>324198395
it's mod, obviously. Replaces rocket launcher with cute-as-fuck animated palmtop Scrapjack

Can't get DoomRL to work.

Fresh GZDoom install. What Do?

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Doom 2 could have used monster closets a million times more intelligently. The majority of the time closets open up RIGHT behind you, when they should be opening up on points of the map where you should be expected to back-track to. More like E1M7 in Doom 1.

>>324198484
4 rockets. Min rockets 3 Max rockets 5, mean rockets 3.75 otherwise known as fucking 4.

>>324198190
They're the best fucking enemy in the game, you shut your pleb mouth. Their introduction into a fight instantly forces you to devote your attention to them, whether to break line of sight to avoid their attack or to stop them from reviving more enemies. They don't have so much health that they're a chore to fight, their attack is dangerous but fair, and they have a unique and memorable design. There is literally nothing wrong with them.

>>324198778
Delete and install ZDoom unless you're playing a wad that requires GZDoom.

Doom 2 didn't feel as elegantly made as Doom 1. It felt more like a Doom 1 map pack with an added weapon compared to an actual sequel.

>>324198921
>stop them from reviving more enemies.

they never revive monsters at a quick enough rate for that to matter. At most they'll revive an imp or zombie, which are cannon-fodder anyhow.

>>324198921
I didn't say they were poorly designed
they are just unfun to fight, not even difficult.
fuck off with your autism

>>324198869
yeah, it was pissing me with no end in Reckoning as well, especially since they usually tied them to you opening doors to next room

>>324192139
>Just like shit like SR50 is abuse.
This is not actual abuse because you can't turn when you're doing this and it's not particularly easy to use in the first place.

>The only map it genuinely breaks if you use it is the final boss of Doom 2
It breaks a lot of Plutonia levels
If you use the rocket launcher it makes the weapon much stronger.
If you use the BFG you can aim at the floor to get your raws immediately.

It is abusable in a way that isn't possible unless you set up stuff Doom was not designed for.

And yes most levels made by the community have no jumping/no mouselook as part of it's design.

>Play Back to Saturn X. You're going to wish you had mouselook after a while.
Literally designed for vanilla and no mouselook.
Just because you want to make it easier on yourself doesn't mean you aren't breaking how it was intended.

If you want to do that then sure that's your thing, the only people who will yell at you for this is speedrunners if you try to act like your playstyle is valid for anything but fun

>>324169646

>Doom had better map design
>Doom II had overall better gameplay
>Doom II is the best due to it's modding potential compared to Doom

Prove me wrong. You can't.

>>324198887
>Max rockets 5
Wow what? Never happened to me.

>>324199045
Why?

GZDoom is literally the same as ZDoom except with an optional 3D renderer

If something's not working it's because he's fucking else upwhere

>>324198921
>They don't have so much health that they're a chore to fight, their attack is dangerous but fair

I gotta disagree on both points. I'm not saying their health should be like half or anything but the combination of being pretty hard to kill with doing up to 90 points of damage (highest RNG) in one hit make them a royal pain in the ass.

>>324199091
I wish they'd been used just as revive machines. Make their AI prefer reviving over attacking or something.

>>324199254
Eh, pretty right.

>>324199254
I don't agree that Doom 2 had better overall gameplay, but yeah, there is no point in making a Doom 1 mod these days unless you're doing something very specific.

>>324169646
Beats me. Doom 2 is the better game. Everybody saying the original had better maps is crazy.

>>324199254
this is correct
but I love Doom 1 more simply because of the maps, it can't be helped.

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>Archvile flames show up on screen
>No idea where the Archvile is.

>>324199363
they should have prioritized healing and then prioritized monsters with higher health/higher damage.

Even more so, Arch-Viles should have avoided the player, so if you knew one was loose you'd have to track it down before it revived too many monsters.

>>324199158
>If you use the rocket launcher it makes the weapon much stronger.
Literally how? The best use of rocket launcher is direct hitting, mouselook doesn't really affect that

>If you use the BFG you can aim at the floor to get your raws immediately.
No you can't, the BFG fires straight regardless of vertical mouselook

>Just because you want to make it easier on yourself doesn't mean you aren't breaking how it was intended.
Well fuck them then and fuck you too. I don't see why I have to enjoy shooting offscreen enemies. I don't give a shit if they intend for you to do that, it's nothing more than an annoyance.

>>324175557
>no mention of dbzone, drown in blood, or LA worlds

What if we showcased high quality levels?

>>324199363
>Make their AI prefer reviving over attacking or something.
But then they wouldn't be the baddest fucker in the room, all you'd have to do is drop a few of the little guys and he'll ignore you. The way it is now is great, because he forces you to run and hide or eat fire, but whenever you do he starts bringing his buddies back.

>>324199319
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_launcher
Damage on direct hit + blast ranges from 148-280 randomized. You have to be pretty unlucky to get five of them in a row, but it's definitely happened to more than one person statistically.

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>>324199556

>>324199645
>But then they wouldn't be the baddest fucker in the room
And that's unacceptable.

>>324199673
Or rather at least four in the low range that don't tally to over 700 such that you need a fifth to finish.

You guys think Romero is going to make any more maps?

>>324199889
I hope so.

>tfw he makes a whole megawad
>maybe designs a couple new enemies too

The real Doom 4?

>>324199889
>Romero remakes all the Doom 2 maps he didn't make.

>>324199889
I hope so
its obvious he never lost his touch

I really wish Romero and Carmack would make up

>gives you the super shotgun on the second level
>The Focus
>Dead Simple
>Tricks and Traps
>Gotcha!

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>>324199889
Yes.

>>324200078
>its obvious he never lost his touch
Hi John.

>>324200283
nigga did you play the level?

>>324200094
are we listing bad levels?
>the pit
>the chasm
>suburbs
>monster condo

>>324200078
I don't know, his map wasn't bad but I wouldn't say it was amazing either. A little too long and that dark room was bullshit as fuck.

Final fight though was epic as hell and I really enjoyed that part.

>>324199617
>The best use of rocket launcher is direct hitting, mouselook doesn't really affect that

Example
>Vanilla mode is on
>Monster is moving
>Can not lead rockets at all
>Rockets suck on air monsters as a result
>Enemies below you are no longer a hazard because you can manually aim your rockets

BFG ball will shoot straight unless you start breaking it. Since you have mouselook on it was safe to assume you have BFG aiming also on. If you don't then I'm sorry.

>Well fuck them then and fuck you too. I don't see why I have to enjoy shooting offscreen enemies. I don't give a shit if they intend for you to do that, it's nothing more than an annoyance.
Then why are you even playing this game when it was designed like that from the beginning?
Why even play what mappers offer if you are going to just shit on what they design around?

Fuck you too mate.

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>>324200345
>>324200094
>tfw i like Tricks and Traps & The Chasm

>>324199889
kind of curious how long it took him to make that map.

>>324200329
Yes. Did you?

>>324199363
>(highest RNG)
It is literally impossible for you to be more wrong. The Arch-Vile's attack has no RNG at all. It's a flat 20 damage hitscan plus a 70 damage explosion, which is canceled if you are out of line of sight on the correct frame and can only be initiated in the first place if you are within 1024 units of the Arch-Vile or fired on it from further away. There is no RNG about it. You wanna talk bullshit RNG, look at the fucking revenant. 10-80 damage projectile with a 50% chance of seeking and also a chance of firing back immediately after being shot, even when you're within the range that they would normally only attempt to melee you.

700 health really doesn't take long at all to bring down. That's only four SSG shots or rockets. Plasma is highly effective as well, and it's possible for the BFG to oneshot it before you even take the tracers into account. They're certainly nowhere near as tedious to fight as Barons, who not only take 1000 damage to kill but are also pitifully nonthreatening.

>>324200539
Because you have good taste.

>>324200582
Yes? I enjoyed it

>>324200585
You're right about the RNG, sorry, I was just looking at Doom wiki for the variables and assumed 0-70 meant RNG but it's just a degrade over distance. It's still fucking absurd though.

>>324200345

Suburbs was okay because it was short. The Citadel though, fuck that map

>>324200548

>Build Time: 2 weeks, in spare time

>>324200813
damn.

the bad doom 1 maps were a lot more enjoyable than the bad doom 2 maps

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>mfw plasma gun
Best weapon

>>324200094
>>324200345
>downtown

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>>324200450
>Then why are you even playing this game when it was designed like that from the beginning?
Because it's still a fun as fuck game regardless of whether or not your eyes are bolted to the horizon.
I don't care what you say, the core experience of Doom is not being rained upon by enemies above your field of vision.

>Why even play what mappers offer if you are going to just shit on what they design around?
Because mappers aren't unquestionable gods and it's possible to dislike design choices. If I otherwise love the maps but I'm annoyed by frequent parts where there's enemies too high to see yet you're still expected to fight them then I use the mouselook instead of not playing.

It's not like I play Brutal Doom or some shit. You purists get a bit too antsy.

>>324201056
>It's not like I play Brutal Doom or some shit.
You should, it's pretty good.

>>324201056
>I don't care what you say, the core experience of Doom is not being rained upon by enemies above your field of vision.


This doesn't really happen on any vanilla map. It happens in a lot of wads, though. Too many wads are built with fucking mouselook and jumping in mind I hate it.

>>324200539
Tricks and Traps was just too bullshit for being so early in the game
>that teleporter that traps you (I still don't know if you can get out of it)
>the lowering platforms at the very end

>>324201194
You can always play the bazillion and two old mods that effectively predate sourceports.

>>324201194
I wish every wad had a big flashing warning saying if it was meant to be played with mouselook or jump. I hate playing a wad, seeing some ledge or something, and wondering if I'm supposed to be using jump to get up there or if I'm breaking the map.

>>324169646
Shit maps but it has the super shotty

>>324201293
Nowadays a lot of vanilla-intended map WADs throw in a ZDoom MAPINFO lump that disables jumping and shit in modern ports. Back to Saturn X is one lately that did that that I recall

>>324201286
ack wads not mods... but yeah I guess sure why not mods too if that's your thing.

>>324201293
They haven't bothered to include it in the readme? Wad/maps are supposed to have a readme included with them that describe the map, you'd think they'd have included mouselook: yes/no and jump/duck as well so you can filter them through the readme.

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>fall down into an acid floor
>can't get out

>>324201293
Just check the intended port in the readme required by /idgames/ for any submission. If it's "Boom" or "limit removing" or "Vanilla compatible" then most likely you shouldn't need jumping. If it's made for ZDoom then expect that jumping is fair.

>>324201526
>very end of tricks and traps

>>324201526
Hate that bullshit.

>>324201526
>PLAYER MUTATED

>>324201526
>Need to backtrack through damage floor.
>rad suit wore out

>>324200345
I like those levels (except Suburbs was kind of meh). The Chasm especially, it felt like Sandy was trying to fuck with me the whole level.
>invincibility powerup at the bottom of a pit
>when you get it, the elevator SLOWLY lets you out
>so slowly the powerup wear off right as you're freed
I love that shit.

>>324169646
Archviles

https://strawpoll.me/6561268/r
https://strawpoll.me/6561268/r
https://strawpoll.me/6561268/r
https://strawpoll.me/6561268/r
https://strawpoll.me/6561268/r

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>>324201651
Finally someone else who complains about that

>Accidently enabled jumping in my DOOM wads
FUCK

>>324201526
>that part in chasm
>the end of tricks and traps
fucking bullshit, if your going have have some pit you fall in and get trapped in/die at least stick a teleporter somewhere

>>324201056
I'm not being a purist anon, I am saying that you are not playing Doom as the way it's intended.

And I am fine with that.

My most fun times with Doom is Project MSX and Black Warrior and I was only contesting that mouselook does let the player do things that was very unintended.

I am not sure if it's a bad thing to point this out.

I do play all maps completely vanilla first though just to see what it's like. BTSX is more fun with MSX. Same for something like Hellbound

brahuahaha

>>324201526
>>324202252
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vMpfbuI9FY

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>>324202354
>the way it's intended.
Worst argument.

>>324202747
>Level is made without jumping in mind
>Jumping really breaks it
>But it's okay to jump and break the level because whatever
I do see what you're getting at, and Doom was definitely made with modding in mind.
I just don't think breaking a level intentionally through something it was really not designed for should be a thing you do first.

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>>324173178

>>324174624
Champion of shit taste, right here.
Episode 2 > 3 > 4 > 1 > plutonia > tnt > doom2

>>324169646
I prefer 2 over 1, it has the SS, more monsters, and the level actually resemble something; a lot of 1's maps feel like pure mazes with a particular theme.

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>>324173178

>>324169646
level design shits itself halfway through
just play D2TWID

>>324205686
>D2TWID
>The Crusher
Fuck no

>>324169646
Worse maps overall because Sandy Petersen

It did however contribute to the pool of unique enemies greatly and everyone loves the SSG, so it's a better base for maps and mods

>>324199617
>No you can't, the BFG fires straight regardless of vertical mouselook
You ignore oldschool rules, but don't fix BFG aiming? How half-arsed. It's right there with all the other easymode settings you turned on.

>>324206256
Because unlike shooting a minigun at something you can see instead of something offscreen, shooting the floor with the BFG to get the insta-rays actually IS gamebreaking

>>324205686
D2TWID got really boring after a while IMO

just like doom 2 I guess

I feel like it was a bit ridiculous with hitting switches and not knowing what the fuck they did about halfway through

>>324193912
So use the mouse, you buffoon.

I like mouselook because I enjoy seeing what i shoot at

>>324181404
Have they modded it to be normal demons yet?

>>324194198
>except for Y-axis movement on the mouse moving forward and back as well
Am I the only one who still appriciates this? Sometimes I use the mouse to move at analogue speeds (ie slower than max) It is really useful in some tight situations. Of course it's not my primary movement method but it is a very useful tool that allows for precise movement that the keyboard just can't do.

>>324206889
This senpai

>>324207063
It's great for picking up the key in MAP02 without opening the doors, since the trigger is just an inch past the key pickup

>>324207287
Why would you not want to open the doors...? Do you not enjoy killing demons?! I never leave a map until I think I've killed everything and I end up feeling sad when I see the kill count say 92%.

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>>324173178
first time was with Quake 2, but still was fucking orgasmic (that weapon and the railgun)

>>324207789
It's not quite the same as in Quake 2

In Doom, once the big green projectile hits something you essentially fire a huge invisible shotgun blast out of your BFG, 40 different rays are fired to cover your field of view

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>tfw renevants for the first time

they came outta nowhere and they're so loud holy fuck

>>324208241
they are agitated skellingtons

>>324207996
Also, the rays don't fire in the direction you are currently aiming. They fire in the direction you WERE aiming when you pulled the trigger. You can kill people behind you. And that's crazy.

>>324207063
I hate it. I rarely need that precision and when I do I usually have enough distance to apply a sin angle translation to my movement to offset the needed distance. That is, come in from a shallow angle parallel rather than perpendicularly which changes based on the sin of the angle theta to the parallel position.

>>324208632
But the origin point is where you are located when the shot hits, so going behind a wall will fuck it up.

>>324208632
It's pretty crazy. I can't help but wonder if the rays were supposed to fire out of the BFG impact spot instead, but they just rolled with the fuckup

>>324208801
The original concept was for the BFG to shoot like a bajillion rockets out of it. But that destroyed the fuck out of framerate touching it. So they scaled it back to have a similar effect with just a single shot.

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>>324208494

>>324173626
Same.

First time I shot it, I thought it was basically a plasma-based rocket launcher.

Then I read a FAQ and found out it's more like a plasma shotgun.

>>324169646
well at least it led to this gem being made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=614akDkzvtE

>>324208642
That's nice, Maths Guy. I just use a mouse to do all that quicker, easier and in English.

>>324169646
Because doom 1 was doom. everyone's first groundbreaking experience. doom 2 was just doom 1 with more maps and monsters

>>324173626
You can two shot cybers with it but you need to jam the thing down their throat, which means risking a rocket to the face.

>>324212376
This
>>324173626
Basically you have to weave between the rockets and fire at the right time so the bfg ball launches right as you make contact with the cyberdemon and just do it again and you two-shot a cyber

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>>324202252
Yeah those parts are great. Nothing like having to run on a bunch of broken platforms because they sink while making a turn right at the end of the level. It can't get any worse right? Oh lets just make a catwalk that is thinner than the player with lost souls coming out from below to harass you while you are trying to not make a misstep off the catwalk.

Thanks for letting me just frantically run around in those parts until I come to the realization that there is no way to get out of them unlike most areas in the game.

>>324169646
>Why is Doom 2 not as loved as much as Doom 1?

It's way harder and more frustrating, so not as fun. Also every new enemy was designed just to piss you off.

>>324216013
even hell knights?

>>324171165
>wandering around forever looking for keycards
>better
retards

>>324189487
>help help brutal doom is problematic! help sgt mk iv isn't a feminist! help help someone somewhere disagrees with me!

>>324217667
You're pretty desparate to go to these lengths of old posts to shitpost

>>324217482
>what is the map

>>324206512
It's weird because in D1TWID they handled that perfectly by having blue/red/yellow doors as entrances and exits from where you hit the switch/got the key
so you would get a blue key and there would be a blue door next to it as an exit to the room which would lead straight to the next blue door
Strange they didn't continue doing that in 2 but it is called Doom 2 the way ID did so I guess they just wanted to be more like 2 than 1

So could someone give me a quick guide on how to get Doom 2 + Brutal Doom with potential WAD access running on a 2015 macbook?

Sort of on an old game bender because Im pissed modern games have gone to shit and the only good games on mac is the old open source shit

>>324218470
>Sort of on an old game bender because Im pissed modern games have gone to shit
Then why make Doom go to shit by using Brutal Doom?

To answer your question, you need either ZDoom and GZDoom. I think they're on Mac., You also need DOOM2.WAD from a copy of Doom 2 itself or the internet

>>324218746
I guess Im not enough of a purist to take it in it's vanilla form and still find it exciting and representative of the kind of high octane thrills it used to deliver back in the 90's.

I mean, I remember playing Ultimate doom on ps1 and thinking yeah, this is good. But I dont have that sort of faith to the original game other than deferring to it whenever I feel like something over the top violent and badass. I still feel I need to update the sprites, gameplay ect. so I can kick off heads, but the core of the game is still perfect.

Anyway thanks for the help and Im going to get on that right now! Cheers

>>324219132
Have you actually played the original unmolested form on a computer though?

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>>324173178

>>324218470
If you get ZDoom you can have a fine experience. ZDoom isn't considered vanilla in the world of doom since it's fairly different if you don't turn off all the little additions like jumping and mouselook. You can play that and it plays perfectly fine, there is no need to get Brutal Doom just to make it playable, if you're playing on ZDoom it's not like playing on DOS.

>>324220116
Of course not. why would I do that?

>>324197014
>The biggest thing that annoys me with DOOM 2 is that wad makers just go "lets put the worst most bullshit enemies in the game in big ass groups and call it difficulty."

God, that is the fucking worst. Every fucking single "popular" WAD.
Open a door? 1,000 Revenants!
Walk into a room? 1,000 Revenants!
Pick up a key? 1,000 Revenants!
Pick up health? 1,000 Revenants!

>>324221221
a lot of map makers share a similar "1-up room symptom" where they think every enemy encounter has to be more difficult than the previous one.

>tfw the first time I actually got around to playing Doom and Doom 2 in full was four years ago on a softmodded PSP.
It was really comfy. I had the d-pad bound to forward/backwards/strafe and used the shoulder buttons to turn left and right.
It was kind of hard to go to keyboard/mouse after that.

>>324197014
>Not thinking chaingunners are bad
Wait until Plutonia, then you will know true pain.

>>324221221
That does get annoying. I remember in Plutonia that I went up some stairs and I saw a rocket launcher. Then the entire upper portion had revenants spawn. Just this big mass of them.

Shit isn't fun.

>>324200345
I like suburbs. Suddenly a mass of demons spew forth and you are constantly running around the place.