DUDE LET'S MAKE 3 NPCs A BOSS FIGHT CAUSE GANKING IS GREAT DESIGN LMAO!
B team thought that adding more copypasted bosses at the same time and raising the difficulty to frustrate 80% of people was what made the Souls serie good. Souls was never about "le hardcore game" but more about finding the perfect balance between reward and frustration. Demon's Souls also innovated with a multiplayer mode never seen before.
Now I hope A team doesn't fuck up DS3.
It's lazy as fuck, but the boss fight is actually fun though. It's all about properly kiting them and the area they give you is big enough and has enough that you can do this properly.
Gank Squad > Cool Ranch Smelter > 2cat
>Instead of summoning people to help me or gitting gud I would much rather make a meme out of the game to prove I am just a scrub.
Nice tears, faggot. Maybe if you weren't so awful at the game you'd have something else to bitch about.
the area behind the closed doors for opening up the dlcs is also the area where people without the DLC could lay down their signs and get summoned for THAT area
it was on all dlcs
>he didn't fight the ganksquad with friends during the golden days of the monascim
Shadows of Yharnam was such a cooler fight.
The whole evolution aspect of that fight was really cool and got intense.
That being said I beat both bosses on 2 tries, they weren't so hard if you learned how to be patient and wait for your time to strike.
Souls have always been all about the co-op, or some say bro-op.
It makes sense for people to go back and replay the series when DaS3 is coming soon. I hope you're filtering every souls series if you don't like it.
>he actually thinks the A team is working on DS3
I hated shadows because the one with ranged snake attack could attack through textures and it was cheap and annoying as fuck
Never understand why people hate this fate(excluding IIRC raids when they just spammed /v/ with b team meme), it was cool idea, you just meet group of adventures who fucking big surprise wear ingame armor and they even work as a team!
>Souls have always been all about the co-op, or some say bro-op.
Now it all comes together.
This is also you >>324141285
You're just going to spam these same threads every day until enough people start to recognise them, then you'll change things up a little.
Almost as sad as Ruggarel.
This is the only boss fight in all the souls games or bloodborne that I summoned for, just used the npc summons. I feel unclean.
2cat was easier alone anyway because the hp bonus they get from coop is too much health.
For all the shit people bitch about relating DS2, the only thing that kills it for me is how inferior the art direction and level design is.
Its weird because it manages to look worse than DeS and DaS despite being technically superior
"In the case of Bloodborne, although I was the lead game director, there was another director level person that also contributed. This is the same for Dark Souls 3. Actually, [Yui] Tanimura-san, the director of Dark Souls 2, has already joined the [Dark Souls 3] team, which will allow me to work on core gameplay design while other things are taken care of."
> Challenging Boss Encounter in Dark Souls 1
>"Man! The Capra Demon gave me a lot of trouble on my first playthrough!"
>Challenging Boss Encounter in Dark Souls 2
>"FUCKING ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY"
The Capra Demon only had 2 adds that died in 2 hits and he had a reasonable amount of health
It wasn't three enemies who could be bosses by themselves who endlessly rush you down
>tfw was extremely overleveled and tanked all 3
PLaying Dark Souls for the first time right now:
>Doing a blind run
>Buy everything from the undead vendor and then kill him
>Get his Katana
>Start Dex build
>Die 15 times to the gargoyles
>Ring first bell
>"Use this to upgrde the estus flask"
>Strange, it doesn't seem to have done anything
>go to the catacombs
>Get insanely frustrated
>Go back up
>Find the old lady taht can upgrade the estus
>Realize I fucked up
>Keep playing anyway
>Go to old Londo
>Run around scaping ghosts
>Find Parrying Dagger
>Beat all of the Undead Burg minibosses by parrying them
>Beat him in my first try
>Go to the Depths
>Beat boss in my first try too
Aside from not having upgraded the Estus, and from losing an absurd amont of time trying to go through the catacombos with a +6 Uchigatana, I'm having fun.
I've just started Blightown which people seem to think is horrible.
Curringlty in level 33, with focus on Dex, Vit, End and some Str
Also, it took me this long to realize what Kindling bonfires do.
I feel like a retard for using a DEX build while also using the parrying dagger, since a single enemy hit fucks me up immensily, but fuck it. I'll see what I can do.
It's honestly just tedious, unless your parry game is stronk, you're running in circle like an idiot during the whole fight.
That Havel rip-off is a threat even alone though, handling that dragon's tooth like it's a toothpick and shit.
Except everything post-Filosofem.
Just kidding; I've only heard Belus.
Easily, yeah. Don't listen to the memesters here, most of /v/ is either shitposting when they say "le worst game evar xD" or they're just butthurt they couldn't control their hype levels for DaSII, like they can't with any big game.
Most people don't defend the Capra Demon. It's a bullshit fight in an overall good game.
I like when people try to defend Dark Souls 2 my cherrypicking exaples from 1 and pretend issues in 2 aren't far more frequent.
Not too bad anon, I've seen much worse. Beating Capra first try makes up for the other shit. Dex master race.
>Aside from not having upgraded the Estus
There are several other firekeeper souls around if you explore. It's not a huge deal to miss one.
>I feel like a retard for using a DEX build while also using the parrying dagger, since a single enemy hit fucks me up immensily, but fuck it.
If you actually managed to easily parry both black knights in the burg on your first playthrough then you could probably pull this off. Shields are better though, even the ones without parry bonuses, because you have another means to defend yourself.
>Curringlty in level 33, with focus on Dex, Vit, End and some Str
I won't bother giving advice because it ruins the first time experience but I'll say at least that these are good choices for stats.
this fight was really fun op, stop being such a wuss.
run around to get some distance and get a dew hits on the damned archer every time.
once he dies go for the other light enemy dont be greedy, dodge dodge.
once he is dead go for the havel and be carefull, backstab him to death.
DUDE PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT GANK SQUADS AND SHITTY HITBOXES SO LETS JUST INCREASE ALL ENEMIES AGGRO RADIUS AND PUT GANK SQUADS EVERYWHERE AND NOT BOTHER FIXING THE HITBOXES
I hated it because the only way to fight them was to be unfair because the boss itself is unfair. There is nothing fun about running around casting Dark Fog on the ground while you wait for their health bar to drop.
Nice job not being a faggot and quitting after going the wrong way from firelink. You're in the meat of the first game, I truly wish I could erase my memory and play it all over again without any knowledge of it. Enjoy it, sweet prince.
This is one of my favorite boss fights in the series. His moveset is so fun to learn and when you get the patterns down it's a marathon of a fight.
>using his own sword against him
>just two fatdads slugging it out, STR vs. STR
not the same
lol maybe 4u faggot
Some things were well done, but all together the art was pretty bad
It was pretty challenging my first time through, mainly because you get instgibbed your first time through blind and then if you have no notion of poise the next few times will get you too
Ye, have all the dlc and 60fps
that's just a shitty npc summon that's supposed to be able to use pyromancies, but never uses them outside of the Aava fight
Most boss in any DaS1 game turns piss easy once you summon someone, simply because the bosses are designed against one player so when two of them arrive it's easy to switch aggro.
I wonder if DaS3 will make boss react more to groups, with special move that can focus on more than one person.
>if you 1v1 him he has cheap ways of damaging you.
There's really nothing cheap about him senpai.
>Finally got done with Aldia's Keep
Fucking finally. Thoses 4 summons going at you when you light the brasiers were a fucking nightmare, and the worst part is, I don't even feel like the key I painfully managed to grab was all that worth it.
At least I killed the dragon first try.
>too much tracking
His thrust attacks, both the phase one sprint stab and phase 2 stab have some really fucked up hitboxes where like a 2x4 rectable to his right turns into a deathzone but fume knight having too much TRACKING
You are high on memes anon
I love the skeleton lords in co op. Tons of fun.
The fact that he dodged it once doesn't mean that the fucked up hits never occur.
He doesn't snap 180 buddy so unless you have a webm of that to post kindly shut it, he has a lot of combos especially in phase one where he just backhands you without even looking, but thats not tracking
>tfw I killed one and had to deal with ten skeletons
>Decided to kill the two remaining at the same time so I win the boss fight immediatly
Same applies to DS2, Raimes thrusting attacks have always been strange, like the changed his sword hand last minute but forgot to actually move the hitboxes, dodging you right and you never take damage, roll to your left and you almost always eat shit.
But thats an exception rather than the rule, bosses pushed you are with their body quite a bit
Yeah the second game had some great DLC but it's curious that all three DLC areas each had one particularly shitty, reskinned boss. It's like they finished the areas up but realized that they needed to up the boss count to meet some sort of weird quota, so instead of putting effort into make more bosses they put three random NPCs, a Cool Ranch Smelter Demon, and two versions of a boss fought earlier in the same expansion.
It really takes away from the trilogy for me because you can tell a lot of thought and effort went into them for the most part. The level design was great in all three, the bosses that were good were some of the best in the game. But looking at the choices made for the "extra" bosses, I can't help but realize that the same kind of thinking that dragged the base game down so much lower than its predecessor was still ever-present in one form or another.
There's not going to be much value to you. The new graphics are nice and the multiplayer is very active. It might be nice for you to get it just to see the changes in the game.
Why would I look at the thread when I can play the game?
Bosses move you around shitloads with their body without doing damage, Rat Authority is probably the most common example
As I said before raimes thrusting attack hitboxes are fucked and way off from the model, couldn't tell you why but they are the exception rather than the rule, of course you won't believe me because you are a memelord following /v/s latest and greatest
I think the third tseldora bonfire got that beat
>room has 5 spiders literally around the corner
>more spiders drop down if you get close to them
>4 mages are shooting homing magic balls at you
>while 5 more spiders come at you
>and a basilisk
All this just to talk to a fucking bird
>return to das for shits and giggles
>sl 36 in Blighttown swamp, gathering all the items
>some faggot invades
>runs all the way to me which took like 10 minutes only to get two-shotted by my zwei
almost felt bad for him
>niggers trying to gank me in belltower
>spam dark fog
>win every time
Hexes really are cheap.
This game is horribly fucking ugly.
Do you ever just walk into a room and see it's just a box with repeating textures? Every fucking room in this game is just ugly ass textures repeated.
But for real, why do the turtle knights spin around to hit you when they have a built-in defense mechanism for people who get behind them? It's the most counter-intuitive thing ever. It's like two people with two entirely different philosophies about how enemies should act worked on the same enemy.
Because overhead tracking and hard tracking in general was applied on top of everything as just a core part of how the AI worked, way after all the special moves and animations were made
You're right. It's behind a locked door which you can only get around by dropping onto the correct ledge and fighting through more spiders and mages. Also, if you miss the ledge in anyway, the only way to get back to it is to homeward bone back to the chapel bonfire, unless you summoned someone, in which case you'd have to either desummon them and bone back or just finish the level and get to it later.
I-I can be your Emerald Herald tonight anon...
>I don't see the issue.
You don't see the issue in an enemy having a specific gimmick that is supposed to shake things up for veterans of the series, but ends up being completely pointless because the AI ignores its own gimmick just to spin around on its feet to attack you anyway?
It's so shockingly simple, which is why it confuses me to such a degree. How did anyone look at that and not instantly think that it should be fixed? Did it not even occur to them or did they just not care? I can't tell which is worse.
>Join the Rat covenant
>No option to call the swarm to my sides to fuck up surface walkers
Shadows is this fight done correctly, though. Using hit-and-run tactics and smart dodging while multitasking and using the terrain correctly in order to nullify the long-range fighter. There should only be one fighter directly confronting you if your spacing is correct because they occupy three different ranges, short, medium, and long.
As opposed to this fight in DaS2 which pretty much requires you to keep looping around like a retard and backstabbing, because two of the enemies are right in your face and the third stands all the way in the back of the room shooting endlessly at you. Oh, and because the enemies are actual NPCs they can reset their animations, have infinite stamina, and can backstab you, as opposed the Shadows who are humanoid enemies but aren't hunters.
>using terrain to your advantage is good if its in BB
>using terrain to your advantage is bad when its in DS2
Just admit that your nitpicking and ignore that guy, you ain't gonna change anyones mind like this.
>tfw soloing them
you just need to run like a faggot the entire fight a hit them they will fall eventually
There are plenty of bosses in these games that become normal enemies later on. The shadows were unique enemies that had multiple phases. The one in the OP is just copy pasted NPCs. It's not bullshit. You're just bad.
So my point was "It's not as bad"
>get invaded while clearing an area
>manage to find the invader
>along with everything I killed alive again
>optional boss in an area designed specifically for co-op
>HURR I'M A RETARD LMAO
I wish people didn't try so hard to fit in here when it's so painfully obvious that they're new anyways
But the terrain usage in BB is better, because it's just a simple obstacle that briefly prevents the long-range Shadow from being a threat, at least until you have to move out from behind it.
The DaS2 cave is pretty much specifically designed so you can get the two close-range NPCs to follow you down and get an easy backstab while you're out of the long-range NPC's sight, then loop around and repeat once the second one is in position to fuck you up. It's sloppy, and what's worse is that it really seems like that's the intended way to fight them. You don't HAVE to use the rock to nullify the long-range Shadow. You can go after him first and take him down pretty quickly since he has the lowest health. It'll just be more difficult because A) the second phase will trigger faster and B) the sword-wielding Shadow will be right in your face, meaning you have to dodge very carefully.
Also you can just as easily just stay out of the long-range Shadow's max range while you fight the other two, something you can't do with the greatbow-wielding NPC in this fight.
The textures in Dark Souls II are fucking shit.
Look at the bottom right image.
Look at >>324164480.
It has nothing to do with console limitations, because Demon's Souls and Dark Souls don't look that bad.
The textures at >>324164480 look completely fine and even have parallax mapping. The only problem is the room is completely empty.
"Gank" fights aren't hard or lazy design. Lots of games have them but it's suddenly wrong when a Souls game does it? In Ninja Gaiden you have a shitload of beefy ninjas and demons going after you at the same time, that IS hard.
Anyone know the best time to start the Old Hunters DLC? I just got to Mensis on this playthrough and I'm not sure how high or low they have the DLC leveled
I always kill the shadows going Katana -> Torch -> Magic
If you get down the Katana wielder before they transform the fight is cake since he's the only one that gets a tremendous boost from the snakes and he NEVER stops attacking
>"Gank" fights aren't hard or lazy design.
They are in a type of game that excels in one-on-one confrontations, with the occasional subversion in order to make the player panic and improvise. Something that DaS2 really seems to forget.
>Only way to fight them
Anon, just git gud.
They give you 2 ledges (not to the water, from the entrance), three narrow walkways and a pillar. You should have no problem at all kiting these guys around and picking them off one by one.
It's not a hard fight at all. Cheesing it is just pathetic.
That's what Demon's, DaSm and Bloodborne all do best. Even in DaS2 these are the best fights.
Why do you think some of the best fights are against single, humanoid enemies, and some of the most memorable fights are ones that subvert this, like the Maneaters or O&S? Why do you think some of the shittiest fights in the series are against bosses with additional enemies in the room like Capra Demon?
It's why fights like Alonne and Fume are infinitely more memorable than something like Freja or Ruin Sentinels. DaS2 even did something clever with the Ivory King by having you bring in your own enemies to fight the enemies that spawn with the boss.
lmao, who the fuck is talking about just DS2? DeS and BB had as much mobs and ganks to fight. I really get the feeling that the people that complain about this sort of fights only played DS1, which was by far the most lenient of crowds, and also the most boring as a result.
>kiting isn't cheesing
holy shit dark souls 2 babies in charge of understanding actual game mechanics
Are you retarded? The room is LITERALLY DESIGNED for that.
"Hurrr, I wonder why they put a narrow walkway here. I better not use it to force them to 1v1 me, that's cheesing!"
You're meant to do hit and run tactics, run around the room and use the environment to 1v1 them, then run away when the other two catch up.
The fact that you can't understand that is fucking embarrassing.
>"THE ONLY WAY TO FIGHT IS TO PUT ON FULL HAVELS AND TANK ALL HITS WHILE SPAMMING ESTUS!"
>use the greatsword because that's how I roll in souls games
>it doesn't break anyone's poise in DaS2 with one hit, apparently it made too much sense in the first one
>this fucking fight happens
>only the thief faggot gets staggered upon hitting, and it happens after two hits
Only thing I hate about DSII invader NPCs and that particular boss fight are the dumb shit that they're capable of doing like animation cancelling. It just makes them frustrating to fight.
It's 2 enemies before the door, then 2 enemies at the bottom, 3 enemies on the left. In front of the gate on the left, there are 2 other enemies and behind the gate there are 2 other enemies. At the very bottom there is another knight and a mummy inside a cage. In short, there are only 8 enemies if you are completely retarded.
Personnally I define cheesing by exploiting the bosses in such a way that exploit the flaws of their AI.
Sure, every vidya boss is retarded and that's why you can beat them, but there's a line between not fighting honorabru and cheesing and I don't think the devs have much of a say in the matter.
>The room is LITERALLY DESIGNED for that.
Yes, that's the entire fucking problem. Over 250 posts into the thread and you're just realizing this now?
Or are you seriously saying being forced to loop around the room like a retard and have the enemies chase you is good design? Because it isn't. Fights shouldn't be designed to play out like a chase scene from Scooby-Doo.
>t-those ones don't count!
Doesn't make them any less memorable. Gwyn was exactly the same.
>thread is about gameplay and game design
>PCucks get in the thread
>thread turns into console war and graphics/fps shitposting
Doesn't anybody realise that the bonus areas are meant to be stupid and difficult? They outright said they're more challenging, and designed around having summons.
It's kind of lame they reused bosses, but it's designed to be a separate challenge. It's why you're never required to go to those places, let alone fight the bosses.
>Because it isn't
But it is. That's forcing the player to adapt to a situation and that's all. No one said a thing when they did that in DaS btw.
You would have complained if every boss was a big dragon/knight anyway. Variation is good, you are just grasping at straws at this point.
It's pretty apparent when you see that there are summon signs you can put before the DLC that gets teleported into those challenge zones just so that people who don't have the DLCs can help you do these zones.
>That's forcing the player to adapt to a situation and that's all
But it's still shitty design. Forcing the player to adapt to a terribly-designed situation doesn't make the design any better.
>No one said a thing when they did that in DaS btw
You never fight NPCs as a boss in DaS. You're also never forced to kite a boss around a room like a retard in DaS.
>You would have complained if every boss was a big dragon/knight anyway. Variation is good, you are just grasping at straws at this point.
Yes, variation is good, but the variation should be stuff that is actually well-designed, like the Ivory King fight. Being forced to constantly make the same loop around the room and cheese a lazily designed boss over and over isn't well-designed, and its the worst kind of variation possible. The fight takes place at the end of a completely optional area, and just like with the other two DLCs, the fight is god-awful and anyone with a brain can tell it was designed in ten minutes.
Seriously, why are you defending the shittiest boss in the entire game? It's unnecessary. No one defends Capra Demon, you don't have to defend this, either. You can like a game and still criticize it when it does dumb bullshit.
Why is the combat in this game so shitty?
The first time I played it I couldn't believe I thought the game is bugged or something.
Then I put another 3 hours in it and it remains shit.
I actually thought that the ancient dragon, the optional boss. Was the hardest one in the game.
He has shitloads of health and his firebreath will always hit you if you dont immediatly start running a second before he even goes airborne.
Also his damage is insane if you do actually get hit.
They're all good, but Old Iron King was the best, with Ivory King coming a very close second. Old Iron King has the two best bosses in the game, although Ivory King has the most atmospheric boss, especially if you've played DaS1.
Sunken King is good, but one of the bosses is garbage. The final boss is good, though. Better than any of the vanilla bosses at least
>a particularly slow and methodical series
>you can fly across the room with a jumping sword slash at any time
Apples and echidnas, mate. You're adequately equipped to deal with crazy shit in actual action games.
That was around in 2015 too. It's a great counter to dudebros and potheads.
I don't remember any times the DLC enemy placement was as bad as the vanilla game, apart from the challenge areas (but they're balanced around summons). Do you have any particular examples?
Why do people think Capra Demon is hard? I'm literally shit at all Souls games and even I barely had any trouble with him. I didn't even plunge him the first time I fought him.
I didnt like it in Sunken King in general, mainly after the secret bonfire, leading to the great area with the toothy monsters. The other DLCs apart from the optional bosses run were good though, you're right.
WHAT IF WE MADE ALL OF THE NPCS
HAVE INFINITE POISE
HAVE 3000 HEALTH AND
DO 400 DAMAGE PER SWING
WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT?
You're not forced but the fight is designed around kiting. People have literally defended the fight by saying so earlier in the thread. Kiting should always been an option, not the intended solution. That's bad fucking design any way you slice it.
Maybe I could summon people if Soul Memory wasn't a steaming pile of dog shit that's worse then the problem it's trying to fix.
>the boss is optional, we have the right to half ass it
This reminds me of people that complain that throws are cheap in fighting games. The kind that if you're not mashing like an idiot and jumping in all the time, you're dishonorable.
Especially if you always c.HP their jump ins.
>any time a dragon flies up and does a huge AoE attack in a souls game
firebreath attacks are the most bullshit thing in the games
>mfw armored spider does it the first time I fought it.
Not that anon but the password system is fucking fantastic and pretty much the only good thing about BB's connectivity. It's a god damn revelation to be able to use one character to play with absolutely anyone at any SL and it scales appropriately. I beat and platinumed BB way back in March and got to about lv 160 and used that same character to help christmas noobs that are just starting to play the game now.
i sincerely hope it makes a return in DS3.it would be a huge mistake if it didn't.
doesn't look that bad
I'm not saying it's a bad mechanic, it's a great one since you can bro op with any of your friends without strict limitations.
But the only time I ever required help was during the chalices, and those areas are geared towards co-op, like the DLCs.
I don't remember what it was, but I know it was high. I'm the type of person that goes back to earlier areas to explore a lot. DS1 rewards that type of thing. DS2 it just ends up raising your SM from all the shit you end up clearing out every time you go back to an area.
The near identical skeleton for females and males bothers me more then it should. It's just so lazy.
I beat everything strictly solo on my first playthrough. It's my mantra. No help of any kind on any boss on my first run. i wouldve felt robbed if i beat Artorias, or Fume Knight, or Ludwig any other way than solo on my first run. That goes for those bullshit chalices too. After that I have fun with the summons and see what I miss in subsequent ng cycles.
I actually think that the iframes being influenced by that ADP level was an improvement, this way it's possible to do STR builds with a fuckload of weight and still dodge shit.
The problem with Agility is that it's really not obvious what it does as a first time player if you don't look it up online. Especially the meaning of why Agility starts at 85. The description says ''Ease of evasion'', but that could mean many things.
Yeah you're right. I remember trying DaS2 after DaS and having problems with dodging, after learning about the ADP everything went smooth as fuck, they should really explain that better.
i have a question.
is there a minimal amount fo int and faith you should have for a strength build, because i want to use artorias great sword cursed for new londo, but i don't want to waste any points and also can you upgrade BKGS beyond+5 and is it better than artorias great cursed great sword fully upgraded?
hmmm another thing ripped off from a better Souls game.
>people still think the hollow in the burg is Havel the Rock.
>Helm worn by Havel the Rock's warriors.
Carved from solid rock, its tremendous weight
is matched only by the defense it provides.
Havel's warriors never flinched nor retreated
from battle. Those unfortunate enough to face
them were inevitably beaten to a pulp.
>replaying Demon souls
>Summon someone here without remembering they exist
>The guy's pure strength and wrecks the two light armored phantom's shits, I forget how to gesture.
>We spill spaghetti all over the heavy and almost die, but somehow pull through. Still can't remember how to gesture.
>we chase after the crystal lizard that's a bit of a ways after them and we try to kill it. He gestures just after we're done and gets stabbed by the knight lurking the entrance to the keep.
>Just after he dies, I see his white phantom die again the same exact way.
>suddenly don't want to gesture anymore.