Do you think The Old Hunters is better than Artorias of the Abyss?
I think the areas in Old Hunters are better but DS might have slightly better bosses. The Artorias of the Abyss story is amazing where Old Hunters its just pretty good with the exception being Ludwig acquiring the Moonlight GS is a huge what the fuck moment. Obviously they're both great but I think Old Hunters wins out simply because it adds so many new weapons.
Doubling the amount of trick weapons along with adding 3 fantastic bosses was essential in making Bloodborne feel more complete
AotA had a handful of cool boss fights, enjoyable NPC's and it was neat going backwards through Darkroot Garden, but that was about it
Apples and Oranges.
I think Dark Souls could have not included Artorias, and it still would have been a sublime game.
The Old Hunters was necessary because Bloodborne, although a fantastic game, didn't have the variety or replayability of the Dark Souls games. The Old Hunters gave it that.
I think Old Hunters was better, but because it was borderline necessary. I think Artorias was perfect additional DLC, but not necessarily needed.
Artorias had better bosses and friendly npcs, but the environments were extremely lacking. I liked old hunter's weapons and outfits better. I still used gear and weapons from the base gear after I beat Artorias. They are both good for different reasons.
AotA wasn't even that good. You got 2 passable levels and 1 shite one along with 2 good bossfights and 2 mediocre ones. It was also very sloppily integrated into the main game and relied on time travel retardation to make it work.
TOH doubles the weapon count, adds 3 well designed areas with unique enemies and had some of the best boss fights and boss themes in the franchise.
Fuck knows why /v/ busts a nut to AotA.
>dem spanx creepin' into view on the far right photo
Are you retarded? People do it all the time because of
>m-muh brand loyalty
All that stupid shit. For what ever reason, people feel they need to pick a side, draw a line in the sand and call everything on the opposite side shit, while defending what they have on their side.
The only acceptable thing is to be an idort.
I only ever fought the boss's in AoTA at sl1, and kalameet was the easiest, just learn all the attacks he can do then dodge them, they're all pretty easy to dodge.
Manus has the black magic hadouken that can be tricky to get past if you're not ready or sure when to roll and that takes you out in one hit at sl1.
Took me like 6 tries on kalameet to beat him
Yes. I honestly found AotA to be the worst dlc of the threye games. Artorias was a pretty fun fight but I hated Manus and Kalameet. AotA also added very little if you weren't using a sorcery build as we got mostly hexes out of it. IMO the crowns dlcs and Old Hunters had better boss fight a and added more overall content.
>just learn all the attacks he can do then dodge them
You can say that for every boss in existence though.
Now Manus' black magic CAN be a bitch, but only if you don't know that you can spam the silver pendant to nullify it.
Bloodborne is a fantastic game.
It has the highest critical acclaim of the Souls series, and the love of the Souls community (after DaSII soured everyone).
Exclusivity has nothing to do with why Bloodborne is amazing. It's just a near perfect game, like DaS and DeS before it.
If you enjoyed the Souls games, chances are you, you'll enjoy Bloodborne too.
yes but kalameet's attack are easy to dodge
and yes you can spam silver pendant on the other 2, but the quick hadouken one come's to fast, but probably possible. Just gotta really be on the ball, I guess.
The new weapons and transformations make the game finally feel complete. Base game has so few options that there's no point in playing it more than once.
I remember DS2's DLC having a lot of really great levels and a couple great boss fights but none of the treasure you bring back was really worth it. Most of the weapons and spells were worse than what you could get in the base game and only worth using because they had some fun gimmick to them.
>that middle shot
Holy shit where did the time go
It would have been Maria, had it not been so hyped, Literally every forum and clickbait built her up to be the hardest thing every.
I beat her my second try with the sawblade. With flame paper I was able to stunlock her to the tune of 3/4 of her health.
Ludwig was probably the best because of lore fuckery, and the Moonlight Greatsword.
I love AoTA, but It boils down to this:
>Walk forward down short tunnel
>Walk forward, light bonfire
>Walk forward out and over bridge into a big circular spawn dump
>Walk past that and down an elevator
>Walk forward to fog gate
>Kill a great boss
>Walk forward and down a bunch of steps
>Arrive at a cube with spawn dumps
>Walk forward and fight a chainmonster
>Walk forward and light bonfire
>Walk forward through cave along the path till you fight Manus
It's great, but it's very linear and homogenous in hindsight, very little variety and it feels very rehashy of darkroot.
Bloodbornes DLC is similar in that it's a twist on a previous area of the game, but it breaks the sequence and you're jumping through various parts of the city, going up and down and around, then climbing a vertical tower and then through a fishing village.
It's kind of like AotA, but just more polished and with more finess.
Artorias is a great boss, but he's very simplistic compared to Maria because of course, it's new tech. She has more movesets, more phases in the fight, and in my opinion has more emotional weight because it's basically a fight against the person who's been leveling you up and being your friend the entire game.
Is The Old Hunters the best DLC ever created?
I'd say it is.
-absolutely amazing bosses
-good and varied environments
-great level design
-adding a shitton of weapons
Is there even a single bad thing about the DLC? The only thing I can think of are that Laurence and the ayyliens aren't perfectly unique enemies, but a mere twist.
Manus is easier if you don't even bother with the pendant. The shotgun blast you can dodge to the side if you're circling him when he fires, which you should always be doing anyway. The one where it rains from the sky you can dodge by just rolling around, and the one where you have to run in to him you can either recognize and run to safety or if you're caught off guard you can just put your back to him with your shield up and you'll take some damage but not that much.
To me it had emotional weight because I couldn't believe the doll was based on such a generic, boring JRPG villain.
I was kinda mad.
But the fight itself is well-designed regardless of how silly it is.
There are 3 kinds of bosses
>easy from the start
>easy once you learn all their patterns
>still challenging even if you know the fight
The problem is people like who come in and say "oh this boss was so easy" don't distinguish between the two types of easy. There's a substantive difference between a boss like Gaping Dragon who's a huge pussy from the start and a boss like Artorias.
Dark Souls certainly has strictly worse combat mechanics, level design, atmosphere, enemy design, boss design, movesets, story, etc.
But I guess it has more fucked-up mechanics, more incomplete areas, more shitty bosses, etc.
I'd even struggle to give alternate playstyles to Dark Souls when the weapon movesets are so shallow and when the only difference between each type of magic is the colour of shit that comes out your hand.
That is actually one of the easiest attacks to dodge. You can simply outrun it. Just start sprinting in any random direction and he can never it you.
Turn around the moment he falls and you can even punish him with 1-2 hits.
TOH definitely has more substance to it, but they are both kind of similar being time travel and shit. I think I like the areas that TOH gave us a bit better. Not to mention the DLC pretty much DOUBLED the weapons in the game and gave us even more neat armors and spells.
Absolutely. The Royal Wood is my least favorite zone ever. Don't know why, I just hate it. Artorias also isn't really as good a fight as everyone says. Ludwig, Maria, and Orphan are all better than him.
>Not having seen quite a few shops in your time
>found pilgrim's spontoon and magic twinblade
>both of them are shit as both weapons and casting tools on top of having batshit retarded requirements
You are doing something severly done then, although I cannot think of any way to fuck this strat up. Since I started doing it that attack hasn't hit me even once.
You just start sprinting in a straight line in a random direction, and he literally cannot hit you.
Manus and Kalameet take forever to kill and do ridiculous damage. I did it on NG+ for the first time and Manus' 10k hp was fucking absurd, a lot more difficult than any other boss in the game anyway.
Just run in a straight line none stop as soon as he is on the roof, dont waste any time and dont change direction.
Also dont go to the stairs or parts of the level that are higher to the ground
No, it feels that way because it added much more content as an expansion for each build which is in direct contrast to Dark Souls which only added broken ass magic and 4 melee weapons.
>want to run through DaS 1/2 and BB in prep for DaS3
>tfw remembering Capra
>tfw remembering Izalith
>tfw remembering Amana
>tfw remembering Dragon Shrine
God dammit. I've never done a magic build so I guess I'll try it out?
Each trick weapon is worth at least 2-3 DS1 weapons in terms of moveset on top of having unique gimmicks going on for some of them. AotA added like 12 weapons most of them were absolute dogshit with the exception of 2-3 and only one of them was really amazing.
Can't wait to go back to 1000 version of soul arrow, now with soul darts.
BB has utility consumables instead which are also much more powerful at what they are doing.
Blue elixir makes you legit almost invisible and lead elixir is a much more powerful iron flesh.
Except it also changes weapon scaling and properties, adds new unique effect and entirely different weapon moveset plus trick combo attacks and post-trick attacks.
It's obvious that you've never actually played bb in your life so think before posting stupid shit next time.
You're not going to want to do DLC until at least level 70.
The first area of Old Hunters is probably one of the most intimidating god damn things I've ever played in a Souls game.
I'm laughing at you really hard right now nigger.
>Except it also changes weapon scaling and properties, adds new unique effect
Exception, not the rule.
>entirely different weapon moveset
Yeah like Hunter's Axe or the fire hammer, right?
>trick combo attacks and post-trick attacks
Woah, one extra attack.
It's pretty obvious you're a cockgarbling BBfag who can't comprehend how anyone could consider it inferior to DaS. That's fine.
>a serrated blessed hyperarmor breaking thrusting weapon with overheads, sweeps, pokes and gascoine uppercut on r2
>I went with a strength build
At least Big Amy's Arm is cool
Wheel, tonitrus, boom hammer, chikage, bowblade, bloodletter, mlgs all change their scaling in tricked mode completely while even more weapons get serrated or blessed modifiers in tricked modes.
And that's not counting trick weapons with built-in guns.
A weapon which gets an entirely different moveset in tricked mode? What about it?
Two trick attacks on every weapon coupled with post-trick attacks on specific weapons.
Yeah. The moonlight great sword sold me, and thats after the first boss
You're merely pretending, right?
>i don't understand what the fuck i'm talking about
It's close to perfect... but not quite.
HoS on the other hand added so much more content than old hunters. Notices, contracts, areas, armor and gear, characters, romances, new story quests, and even more side quests. Alll based roughly on the difficulty of the end of the game and scaling up.
BrB have to go to my hypestation for Blood and Wine.
Show me a build that can get more AR on most light weapons than arcane one on top of having tools that outdamage guns by far and weapon with built-in 1hko wog, shitter. I will wait.
Parasite is an overall amazing weapon even without 1hko wog. Fast pokes, multihit attacks, hyperarmor breaking. Chikage fags are always shitting the bed against it because only one of their weapons have at least somehow viable moveset that can counter Parasite's dashes.
>Do you think The Old Hunters is better than Artorias of the Abyss?
I have no idea what this even is lol wow kid go outside.
You literally might as well say
"Do you think that gobbly gook is better than bwong bwong bowng?"
Hell yes it is.
Maria >> Artorias
Orphan >> Manus
Fishing Hamlet and Research Lab >> Oolacile
Bloodborne music >> DaS music
That being said, Artorias is still one of the best DLCs ever and I would never shit talk it.
So, is Beasthood still an unfinished mechanic? Did they fix it at all?
I'd say they're on par.
I liked Old Hunters more, especially the bosses, but AotA was still damn good.
I might have to revisit Dark Souls though, I've been on a Bloodborne binge lately so I'm probably rather biased.
He had the full beast mode to begin with, then transitioned into a more familiar fighting style, both of which were full of moves unique to him. As a fight he is always fun.
He was also pretty big in the lore, so to actually see him and what he'd become was fantastic. Not to mention he can give you the best and most thematically appropriate version of the Moonlight Sword in all of From's work.
Maria was certainly fun and interesting, even if she was too easy to beat, but Orphan was surprisingly dull for a Great One styled boss.
You'll notice on the weapon stats when you're about to put an arcane gem into it that it'll show your Phys dropping to zero.
Arcane will overwrite the physical unfortunately, but if you have an ARc build it might not be so bad.
Have fun anon.
The /vg/ general for it is also quite civil, if you can get past Lucifer shitting up the fucking place.
I'm on NG+ with a skill build but I've already gotten my skill to 50 and don't know what I should do with my echoes now. I was considering doing arcane because I use the Cane and Church Pick, but wasn't sure.
>better level design
>every enemy can knock you into pits at every point of the game
>better level design than strategic placement of enemy groups that require thought to approach
lol, dark souls is a good game but the level design was atrocious even compared to demon's souls, shut up bitch, stop shitting on shit you never played and go be salty elsewhere
Overall? Definitely. Awesome areas and so many awesome weapons. Great bosses too.
But I still think Artorias is the hypest boss.
>ran through DeS/DaS 1 on my brothers/my old PS3 while I was staying at my parents house for break
>not sure if I wanna just do an Arcane run for BB or if I should just get SotFS
I didn't play DaS 2 on break specifically because it was a chore to play. Does SotFS make it any less of a chore?
Is your VIT up to 50 too? That's something the Echoes can build on.
Otherwise, you really only need your echoes to buy extra vials, bullets, and other consumables. Bone Marrow Ash is a prime candidate, as is Lead Elixers for if you're PvPing and need a bit of help with a gank squad.
Honestly I don't think so. Not much in the original bloodborne game hinted at some untold story that needed to be explained. Although in Dark Souls, there is tons of context surrounding Gwyn's big 4 and what happened to them, along with what the Dark was and what the pygmy might have been. the Artorias of the Abyss DLC felt like a necessary and worthwhile addition. Although the Old Hunters DLC was a great addition, it didn't have that extra feeling of necessity.
You know, I honestly can't go back to a quick build in a Dark Souls game after Bloodborne. Bloodborne just did fast paced DS gameplay so much better than DS ever did. When I feel like being tanky again, I can go back to DS and have a great time.
Don't put your END over 20
Other than that, just play through the game gradually adding points to Vit and damage stats. Your first run will be shit any way, so you might as well spread some stats around so you can meet the requirements of as many weapons as possible to try them out and see what fits your playstyle.
I just played Artorias of the abyss. It's a definite yes that Old Hunters is better.
The first area is a great reminder of what Old Hunters did to the town-even with the rehashed enemies.
The first boss was also extremely significant and tied with the theme of heroes commiting great sins and turning to the 'dark' side.
The next level of Old Hunters is way more complicated and atmospheric than Oolacile township. You have tortured NPCs with dialogue that foreshadows Maria. Tons of NPCs talking about either the pain of the surgical procedures or the sounds that they hear. The enemy variety is greater, the encounters are more unique. There are trap bookcases. Etc etc.
I won't even go talking about fishing Hamlet, because it's the same story there. Atmosphere, level design, and how it builds up the final boss of the area are just way better done than DS1 DLC.
And I didn't even talk about the multi-stage boss fights and score of the DLC. Sure you have Living Failures, but I see that encounter as a sort of lore boss in that it's there to show you the final result of what happens to the patients you've been fighting all this time.
I don't understand this meme of hating newer FROM games being better than DS1. You want game companies to do better than what they did before.
Fishing hamlet is one of worst locations in the entire souls franchise, trumped in shittiness only by forbidden forest and lost izalith.
Also I can't believe you're saying that research hall has great enemy variety, it's fucking seven billion patients and like a raven, a rat and a random hunter.
Bloodborne legitimately has better level design that Dark Souls.
There's less areas in BB of course, but holy shit they're fucking huge, especially Yharnham and Forbidden Woods. All the DLC areas are pretty massive too.
fuuuck, that Brotherhood of the wolf style on everything is just right up my alley.
I hope From keeps making unforgiving and challenging games but with a new style every time like with this one.
>Fishing hamlet is one of worst locations in the entire souls franchise
I'm not the same guy and I'm not going to argue with the rest of your point but this is just plain wrong.
The Research Hall is one of the most disgusting areas I think I've ever seen in a game.
That room with all of them in the beds nearly made me physically ill.
I'm actually playing through SOTFS right now with a friend, and fuck me coming right off BB to this is jarring, everything in this game is so damn half assed, it controls like shit, and the game is ugly as shit too.
I was looking forward to weapon variety, but so far there's fuck all actual good weapons, and most of the weapons I've found are outclassed in scaling by later ones and become completely redundant. So I now have an inventory full of like 40 weapons, but only about 5 are actually viable to use.
Also what in the fuck did they do to greatswords in this game? They're complete shit, fucking rapiers and SS's outclass the shit out of them.
why do i have to go through 100 guards to get to him
AoTA brought Dark Bead, Pursuers, and Gold Tracer, which plagued the game for years to come
OH brought Beasthunter Saif, Bloodletter, and Rakuyo, which will plague the game for two months until everyone goes to Dark Souls 3
That's an equal sign man
This imagine is hilarious because I actually have a buff bro friend that plays xbone, a lard ass neckbeard friend that exclusively plays on pc, and a manchild friend of my roommate's who brings his Wiiu over (we're in our late twenties) and then proceeds to connect these little toys to the fucking thing. My other roommate and I nearly died laughing from the second-hand embarrassment.
Anon, he was sort of easy. Just a matter of no-locking and running in and out to avoid the downwards dark flames attack. If you were heavy loaded you were fucked, but by the point of this fight if you didn't learn to go lightweight and rolling you deserved to be burned into a charred black crisp.
Once I figured out that they can be viceraled they went from "Jesus, NO FUCK!" to "Oh, okay...". Worst part is once I found this out it was on the kill to get the Rakuyo, so I didn't have to deal with them anymore.
>magic now requires thought and resources
>cant spam from the edge of lock on range
What I don't like about it is that, sure they add 10 or so new weapons, but most of them are just arbitrarily found on corpses within 5 minutes of starting the DLC.
This doesn't matter so much for stuff like the beast cutter etc. but the katana/dagger thing which is a loreheavy weapon is obtained by killing an enemy that has nothing to do with its lore. Similarly the fucking amydgala arm is just found in some artificial difficulty bullshit area too, that basically forces most players to make a suicide run just to get it, it should've at least been on like an actual amygdala corpse or something.
The only weapons that felt like they are where they should be are the church cannon, bloodletter mace thing, ludwigs sword, and the bowblade.
The souls games are for the most part, known for attention to detail in everything including item placement.
Maybe its a nitpick, but it really bugged me.
To me it feels like every boss you kill, the DLC gets better. At first its a kinda a mess, after ludwig its not so bad, after pirate lady its the best area in the game.
>the katana/dagger thing which is a loreheavy weapon is obtained by killing an enemy that has nothing to do with its lore
The enemy lives in a well. The weapon was found in the well. It is stated that Maria couldn't bear looking at her weapon and threw it in a well. You can imply a lot more from that too, I just don't anna type it all.
>the fucking amydgala arm is just found in some artificial difficulty bullshit area too
If you proceed through the cave slowly after killing Djura's last friend then it's very easy, I'm getting the feeling you just rushed in.
Maria. She was by far the easier DLC boss, but that kind of made it better. Especially for dex users.
>be blade of mercy user
>1v1 fast-paced fight against what is basically the doll
>decide not to parry and have just a straight speed fight
>both zipping around and slashing the shit out of each other
>she stabs herself
>she starts slinging blood for massive range
>still just as fast
>enters third phase
>now that blood catches on FIRE after it's out
>STILL just as fast
>defeat her first try with 1 blood vial left
It was a pretty great fight, especially if you don't take more than a few tries. It's not the hardest, but it was the most hype.
Fair point on the well thing, I guess, how does she still have it though?
I went back for the GG later, which was actually well placed, but maybe its just how I play souls games, rush through get all loot, die 20 times trying. And then take the proper way through and fight all the enemies, but by that point I had gotten half the stuff in the entire dlc. Maybe it's just a result of them not wanting to have enemies drop their own weapons like in souls.
I'd rather they just give us badges and not place the weapons anywhere to loot, except the ones that are where they're supposed to be.
>how does she still have it though?
You do realize you're in a dreamland in the Nightmare, right? It's her consciousness, so obviously she has the weapon she used the most. It's not the real one, it's just one generated by her consciousness, the real one is in the well.
>maybe its just how I play souls games, rush through get all loot, die 20 times trying.
yeah its just you.
I really want to make a build for this weapon before moving onto das3
>people making clint eastwood characters with sweaty clothes and gascoine pants
Literally my favourite build, shaking my head at his use of melee weapons though
As soon as I found evelyn and the gun rapier, I made a new cowboy character that just dual wields pistols
seriously disappointed at the lack of ponchos in this game though.
20 is a stupid limit to begin with
you don't want to stop at 20, you want to end on a level that gives 3 points of stam, either by itself or with a %20 rune
therefore it's better to stop at 18 or 22 instead of 20
friendly reminder that whichever souls game you play first you will assume is 'the most difficult' and/or 'the best' simply because you arent use to the game mechanics, and shitposting about which one is good is pointless
Lady Maria wasn't responsible for all the people experimented on. It was the Healing Church and the School of Byrgenwerth that did it. Lady Maria was looking after the patients in the Research Hall and her major role was to guard the portal to the Fishing Hamlet to hide the secret of Kos.