They kind of played around with it in FF 8 and X but X-2 was really the point when Square just went "Fuck it. The only thing that matters in these games is the character designs, especially their hair styles."
Terrible characters, terrible plot, terrible intro, neat implementation of the job system which however doesn't make up for the sheer horrible nature of the rest of the game. X already wasn't one of my favorites, but X-2 took everything about the world and made it worse. I couldn't care about any of those people, while I had a minimal interest in the cast of X.
>>323910178 There were plenty of problems with VIII, but overall levels of angst weren't one of them. Hell, it doesn't come anywhere close to the absolute pinnacle of angst in this franchise, Final Fantasy XIII. VIII actually had nice lighthearted moments interspersed in the plot, and has many moments that are quite humorous.
>miss half of the content without a guide >half of the jobs are so redundant and useless people will never use them and all the worthwhile skills are locked behind tons of job-specific grinding >changing from dress A to dress B means that you still have to watch the long animation again when you switch from B to A the first time >lot of the content is just minigames that are no better than the ones in X >regular encounters are a joke that make no use of the battle system >dungeons are plain texture hallway mazes >in general no effort went into the world design because everything was recycled from X >even if you grind you will never have any money
I know what some people will say >the entire point of X is Yuna growing into her own person and understanding that she doesn't have to sacrifice what she is for the common good! She can be whatever she wants, screw you!
Yes, and also nothing in X indicates that she has any desire to dualwield pistols, have an absolute cleavage, and go around the world chasing spheres with her incestuous cousin and a timedropped gender-bent Squall instead of helping the broken Spira rebuild.
>>323910841 Well Rikku was the one who picked out her outfit. Which I suppose the idea is that she's kind of a blend between Teedus (the dress going down one leg like Teedus's pant leg, Jecht's symbol on her chest, her new hood, and flair in her hair) and Rikku (more bubbly outgoing personality and sexier motif in general) while still having a bit of herself in there (strong desire to help people even if it isn't profitable).
The guns are probably because she no longer has aeons to use and she does expressly state to both Rikku and Lulu that she wants to get away from her old life and spread her wings. Yes she could have been (and can be) a spell caster considering her experience as a White Mage but it still gets the point across.
>>323910993 XIII was stupid but it was stupid in a way that you point and laugh at it. Like a retard playing in his own shit. Versus X-2.5 which is offensively stupid. Like a retard flinging his shit at all the onlookers.
>>323910841 It went something like this: "Oh man I can't summon anymore and white magic is pretty lame by itself so maybe I'll ask my al bhed cousins to lend me all this machina weaponry that they have lying around since there's no nationwide ban on them either".
>>323911213 >Dead Fantasy Jesus I haven't seen that since my teen years. I wonder if it's still entertaining now.
>>323911114 This is what I mean by X-2 making X retroactively pointless. The entire point of X is stopping the Fayth from dreaming. The Fayth go to the Farplane and are put to rest, no more aeons including Teedus. Except that according to X-2 the Fayth can still dream from the Farplane. Well fuck man why was everyone freaking out over the death of Yunalesca if she can still dream from the Farplane? They just made everyone's job easier since now you don't have to go all the way up to Zanarkand to get the Final Aeon, you can train by hitting up the temples and then just go back to Guadosalam and not have to climb a fucking mountain. Oh the point of the climb was to cement the bond between summoner and guardian? Well the whole travelling the continent thing can do that.
>>323911335 I don't know Anon, I was pretty appalled by what XIII and its sequels did to the franchise, especially considering they were all given top-billing as mainline games when compared to X-2 which seems to be regarded as more of a side game.
>reading through Toriyama's wikipedia page >Toriyama believes his strength is in directing games that are very story-driven. He also thinks that it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when the player is given a huge amount of freedom to explore. According to him, the most important aspect of a Final Fantasy game is the characters. Toriyama has stated that the aim of the linear game design used in the first half of Final Fantasy XIII was to feel like watching a film. This was done to absorb the player into the story and to introduce them to the characters and their battle abilities without becoming distracted or lost. I have never wanted to strangle a japanese man so much in my entire life. Now compare that to Sakaguchi's > I don't have what it takes to make an action game. I think I'm better at telling a story
>>323912379 >>Toriyama believes his strength is in directing games that are very story-driven. He also thinks that it becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when the player is given a huge amount of freedom to explore. According to him, the most important aspect of a Final Fantasy game is the characters. Toriyama has stated that the aim of the linear game design used in the first half of Final Fantasy XIII was to feel like watching a film. This was done to absorb the player into the story and to introduce them to the characters and their battle abilities without becoming distracted or lost. What a faggot. Go make a movie then Toriyama.
>>323912462 You can get 100% on a single playthrough, but good fucking luck even with a guide. Different game versions have different requirements for no reason, and it's all such minor bullshit it's guaranteed you'll miss something. There's a fucking dialog box that counts against your % if you press to advance through it instead of just letting it scroll, and it's the only one in the game that does that.
>>323910841 Keep in mind she's also grieving for Tidus in her own way, trying to embrace a new life and adventure, rather than be buried by her own sense of duty. People express that in different ways.
>>323912609 On the contrary, the XIII line has probably some of the most complex storytelling in the entire franchise.
And that, Anon, is one of its worst faults. It is a game violently intent on telling you a very particular story, to the detriment of everything else, from the worldbuilding to the battle system. It substitutes everything about the earlier games' attempts at making you feel invested into an adventure, or even in the party interactions, for deep character drama ripped straight from an anime or movie.
XIII has a very complex story. That doesn't make it good.
>but it was stupid in a way that you point and laugh at it
What? That game was so serious (and morose about having to be an FF) doing that was impossible. It's just bad. Now for example the "emotionless" LR-Lightning showing the most personality she ever has is a design fuckup you can laugh at.
(I still hold that VIII has the worst story and XIII is the worst told story.)
>>323913175 >I still hold that VIII has the worst story and XIII is the worst told story. >the worst told story That's... a surprisingly sensible thing to say, actually.
There was absolutely no need for XIII to be in media res, everything about the plot would be better if the game had a linear time progression. Granted, that still wouldn't bring it up to standards, not by far, but would be an incredible improvement because it would give you reason to care about the characters before they are derailing trains, fighting weird monsters with an army of differently-colored people, and trying to punch magical God-Machines in the face.
Well. I still hold it to also be the second worst story. (Even ignoring that it's actually an interparty drama game and everything else is meaningless.) Just because the basic core of the story being defying your fate by fulfilling your fate is stupid.
>>323913736 It's coming. We already had a X-2.5 (which unfortunately is canon) and X HD had a lead-in to a sequel as well so...get ready for stupid. Tidus and Yuna got stuck on an island, Tidus mistakes a bomb for a ball, and when he goes to investigate it he gets blowed up. Yuna makes a deal with the devil or some shit and Tidus comes back as a summon, but if he realizes he's a summon he'll fade away again. Oh, and Sin is back. Oh, and some girl claims she is Auron's daughter
>>323913736 Holy shit I'm all for FFX-3 but make it a prequel with Braska, Jecht, and Auron or make it a sequel with Yuna and the surviving Guardians for the love of God don't have Ghost Titus around with his blitzball bomb bullshit
>They explore the forest hoping to find a clue on how to return home when a ball rolls towards them. Tidus mistakes it as a blitzball and runs towards it while looking around for its owner. It explodes, killing Tidus and Yuna passes out from the shock.
>>323915158 I wonder who was it that saw X and thought "you know what this needs? More pointless romantic drama and for Sin to be back" Also how the HELL did Yuna REVERT BACK TO BEING A SUMMONER?! WHAT WAS THE POINT OF BEING FINAL FANTASY LARA CROFT UP THERE?
>>323915684 It's a terrible shameless attempt to revert the status quo
But the writer doesn't realize that the whole point of SPIRA is that it was locked in a never ending SPIRAl of death and FFX broke the Spiral and FFX-2 was about life after that, life after the incredible heroic struggle
But NOPE SIN'S BACK TIME FOR ANOTHER GENOCIDE ADVENTURE:^)
>>323915684 I didn't like X that much, but I think it had one of the best endings in Final Fantasy as of late. It decided to have it's bittersweet ending followed by leaving a scene to interpret that maybe Tidus came back (or maybe not). Instead X-2 came along and, while it was a fun game, it decided to fuck all over that. X-3 will just be more shit
>>323915875 Considering context, I doubt Sin is gonna be big bad of X-3. It looks like it's gonna be more "be careful what you wish for" type stuff. You have Sin back, Tidus back from the grave for like the third time now, and to top it off random people from the afterlife show up to chill with their families. Likely it's gonna turn out that Tidus being back is fucking shit up royally and continuing the spiral of nonsense because Yuna wanted her man back. It's not a horrible idea , it's actually pretty decent, but we all know the execution is gonna suck beyond any idea.
>>323916109 >in b4 Seymour's spirit is behind everything The problem is the book sounds more like a setup for a soap opera than an adventure. Too much time wasted in Yuna and Tidus bickering and being jealous of one another's friends, that does not make for good storytelling and never will.
>>323909192 >The only thing I dislike about the game is the nonsensical, pointless story. This. So much this.
The battle mechanics were good, as was the class/skill system but the damn Charlie's Angels Save Spira plot was just awful.
Also moderately disappointed in the Mega Man-esque "WE DUN GOT OUR STUFF FROM THE LAST ADVENTURE NO MORE" bullcrap. Would have been if there had been some bonus for having an endgame FFX save on the card.
Mechanically the game was solid but it had: A. Horrible level design >Leblancs hideout, spike wall moves slowly toward you. You cannot progress unless you let it hit you. Lots of shit like this in the game B. Mini games that sucked ass but that you needed to do in order to get some important items C. Complete lack of direction with quests. I'm not one for hand holding but I've never looked up a guide more than I have for this game. Everything is vague and simply getting from point a to point b becomes more of an a through z D. The ability to choose where to go and what mission to do next causes huge variations of difficulty within chapters.
>>323916765 Too bad none of the settlements used water in any meaningful way beyond "It's a seaside city!", "It's a glorified sewer!", or Blitzball I would like there to be a Venice-style city, maybe with multiple levels and waterfalls between them.
>>323910841 Dude, my ex was the most shy and prude person in the entire universe. She didn't have any friends and was always very quiet. She liked manga and videogames and staying at home.
We got together, I introduced her to my group of friends, we started going out a bit more and one day she literally bloomed into being a massive party girl. In bed she was a massive semen demon and after I broke up with her she started dressing in the most lewd and fucked up ways and going to fucked up drug parties and fucking random people.
People change and no matter what you say, they can make a 180 degree turn and become the total opposite of what they were, especially when they are presented with the option of freedom and "no regrets #yolo" which is exactly what happened to Yuna.
>>323916462 It would actually be neat if Yuna ended up being the villain, at least unintentionally. It would fit well into the themes of the story. X being all about moving on from ancient practices, and X-2 being about moving on from death and progressing. Thematically it makes sense. You have two games about moving on from past practices and shit, with Yuna being the image for it. Moving on from religious summoner to gun slinging adventure girl. Then she decides to whip out her magic again, and shit regresses back to the Yu Yevon days of shit. X-2 you had people attending concerts and being like a modern society, then in X-2.5 they go back to praying to Allah and visiting their ghost families. The idea itself I actually like, I just know it's gonna be a boring romantic melodrama, filled with shitty everything. Especially considering the lead in to this shit was Tidus blowing his head off with a fucking blitzball bomb.
>>323908286 >job system that harkens back to the best Final Fantasy games >interesting jobs spun interestingly; Lady Luck, Mascot, Floral Fallal/Machina Maw/Full Throttle >dressphere system encouraged strategic use of in-combat job changes to help overcome challenges FFX-2 was spectacular. My only gripes with it was the story, and I just couldn't really grasp why they thought it was a good idea to go Charlie's Angels with it. If they'd kept the storytelling and premise at the level of FFX and didn't go all autistic about it, people would have received it better. They got way too fast and loose with it story-wise.
>>323917742 >Final battle is Yuna and either Tidus or some summon version of him >She's not even evil, just broken and pissed that after carrying the burden of the entire world on her back and literally traveling the world to kill Sin, the world shits all over her and doesn't give her the one thing she wanted in the end >Even when she does get it back, the world shits all over her again >She has to accept that he's gone, you don't always get a happy ending, and you have to move on Sounds honestly less shitty than what the inevitable end product is gonna be. Get ready for the X universe's Bhunivelze
>>323916978 While this is absolutely something that can happen, fictional characters demand a certain continuity in personality, or at least a natural progression in who they are. A carefree, upbeat person who suffers a tragic loss as result of their carelessness will become far more somber and thoughtful, and a character who starts off insecure and defensive upon finding friends will tend to open up and become more approachable. The problem with "it was a time of change for her, so she became BATSHIT CRAAAZYYYY" with very few hints of her previous interests is that it's no better a justification for why that character changed other than the developers just felt they could cash in to a different demographic, and butchered an existing character for that.
It's the same reason the game doesn't make a plot point of Yuna being bitchy and being a boss fighr because she's having her period. Storytelling demands a certain degree of "sanitization" of the randomness of reality.
>>323918263 >Get ready for the X universe's Bhunivelze His existence was the least wrong thing with the XIII line though. He sounds imposing as fuck in the endgame cutscenes of LR, if YouTube is to be believed. And looks exactly like Saruin from Romancing SaGa
>>323918473 I had no problem with him, other than the fact that he came out of fucking nowhere other than some datalog mentions. He himself was a pretty good idea, a cool design, etc. My problem was that it's just literally "suddenly Boony, and he's the biggest bad ever". That's what I'm expecting for X-3, some random deity level bad guy that just pops up out of nowhere. Boony would have been a lot better if he had more lead-in other than some datalogs and a namedrop in XIII-2
>>323908286 First I must say haven't played Lightning Returns yet, and so, up to this day, FFX-2 remains the one entry in the franchise with the best battle system to date. Perfect blend between the traditional ATB with the fast paced, job change system of FFXIII.
>>323919116 LR battle system is absolute jackshit anyway so you aren't missing anything. It's like playing a 2D tales of game but in a fake 3D arena except you don't have party members and you're sucking cocks instead of swinging a sword.
>>323918782 And then for maximum disappointment he'll still be an overgrown, silent tick like Yu Yevon, just twice the size.
That said, I would be entirely okay if in lieu of creating an entirely donut steal god of evil for X, the writers simply made it so the Farplane is interlaced or somehow connected to the Void of the earlier games. That's the single constant of the FF franchise, the Void, and it usually is the metaphysical entity that's up on cleanup duty whenever worlds go full retarded.
Having an incarnation of the Void that stirs up when Spirans starts abusing the Farplane the same way Necron or Cloud of Darkness woke up when the Crystals were tampered with would be neat.
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