Slightly above-average jrpg. Interesting mechanics(sometimes cool, sometimes frustrating.) Decent story, although gets much cringier towards the end. God-tier soundtrack. Too many characters(this normally wouldn't be a bad thing in an rpg, but few have any story or sidequest relevance, and most bring little to nothing to the table that other characters don't besides visual/how they look. Like DXIW, decent enough game standalone, bad entry to the franchise it's under. CT fags get pissed off beyond belief still 15+ years after release, and it's funny as shit.
You know I have a hard time dealing with such a wrong opinion. My way of coping with it is assuming he's fed up with kids saying it's the best OST ever so he feel obligated to be some contrarian hipster.
>>323773394 I don't understand why people love the bland cookie cutter that is Chrono Trigger, yet pretend that this game is a complete pile of shit. The gameplay is interesting and not the same as 500 other RPG's. The story isn't bad even if it does get slighty fucked in the end. The art style is fun. Are people really that upset that they aren't playing something that is just like every other JRPG, and with an extremely boring/undeveloped story too?
As Chrono Trigger 2? No. As a fresh entry? Yes. As a jRPG? Sure but the cast is forgotten to the point that you would think they are in the game for a single situational line of text. As an RPG? No but that's why we throw jRPGs into their own subset.
Combat is good Music is amazing Story is ok, but you can tell the budget ran out at the end. It's not xenogears level of info dump but its a lot of dump at the end. Lots of fun characters and qts to use Play it after a fresh CT run to catch all the references.
>>323776682 Stats are boosted on star level gain, characters don't have to be in the battle party to get those.
You can gain a few extra hp and rarely another stat in the couple of battles after a star level, but its usually 5-10hp max and it doesn't matter since every character has set stats at star level 99 anyway that the game had been gradually setting you towards.
The atmosphere and soundtrack are both peerless, I actually really like a lot of the characters, even if about half of the playable ones are worthless, and the plot, even though it is a clusterfuck, is fascinating to me.
Chrono Trigger may be a better game overall, but I find I like and respect Cross more, because while it fell short of the mark in a lot of places, it really tried to do interesting things, and it did succeed in places.
>>323776472 >They're upset that they're not playing chrono trigger: the exact duplication sequel.
Which is weird because you don't hear the same bitching about Xenogears and Xenosaga games, even though they both have Xeno in the title. Problem is CT was basically baby's first JRPG for the SNES generation and that shit still generates ripples.
>>323777764 Think about it from Serge's perspective. He had a crazy dream where he stabs this strange girl and suddenly she shows up for real.
Every time you reject her from joining your party or refusing to help her, you could see it as an attempt to prevent that vision from coming true. Yeah she's going to die of poison but at least you didn't stab her to death.
For me it's the crown jewel of over-ambitious PS1-era JRPGs. And yes, I think it's a great companion game to Chrono Trigger - it's like the Empire Strikes Back to that game's New Hope, the darker followup that turns the first entry's straightforward story into an entire mythos, and I'm really sad we never got to revisit it.
Baten Kaitos almost felt like another Chrono game, but not quite. Really wish the former Chrono staffers who are independent and/or at Monolith Soft would do something else in that vein - with Masato Kato, Yasunori Mitsuda and Yasuyuki Honne, of course.
>>323777772 >Xenosaga was supposed to be a 7 game series with multiple storylines in each game coalescing into a big finale >Cut it to ribbons after the first game >Focus only on Albedo/Rubedo, even ignoring Nigredo There is no justice in this world.
>>323777958 I find this a very strange line of thought when the previous title is all about altering the fate of the world. You would think handling the fate of a 16 year old girl would be easier, at least before making it to the end and doing both anyway.
A lot of people don't seem to realize or remember that Cross was never intended to be the end of the Chrono series. There are a lot of deliberate loose ends in the plot because Kato was expecting to explore them further in future games. Basically, it suffered the same fate as Xenogears (which was by the same development team too).
>>323773394 I'd say its average if not a bit below average due to how many issues it has. The writing alone can be pretty terrible and pacing severely needed to be addressed. Far too many characters who have zero significance once they join, and often feel like someone just had every NPC you interact with join.
Cross has a shit ton of flaws but I still love it. The soundtrack and art style are amazing, and most of its flaws are due to limitations of the hardware. I really wish we could get a remake/sequel to set everything straight.
I don't really get why everyone bashes the story. I did and still do think it's better than Trigger, which I found to be pretty bare bones though that may be because I played Trigger when I was like 10.
>>323779963 It was intended to stand alone as its own game, but it was expected at the time that they would get the opportunity to make more sequels. Beyond that, I think it's pretty obvious from the content of the game itself that Kato assumed he would have the chance to revisit the setting in future.
>>323781194 There's that, but there's also the fact that the game makes references to huge plot events (e.g. what happened in Guardia, where's Magus, etc.) that it never even tries to depict because they're only tangentially related to the story of Chrono Cross specifically. It was clearly trying to establish a larger Chrono world and history that could be revisited in future. Interviews from the early 2000s confirm that Kato had plans for a third Chrono game, and Sakaguchi was prepared to give it to him before he got kicked out of Square.
And never mind that the new material in Chrono Trigger DS (which Kato supervised and wrote) introduces even MORE unresolved plot threads and teasers for future chapters. The man's probably already got an entire Chrono 3 draft written, just waiting for someone someday to let him produce it.
>>323781497 Magus was originally intended to be Guile, then removed when they felt they couldn't fit him into the story properly. And was later retconned back in.
The Guardia thing is also something that wasn't going to be expounded on more than they already said. Dalton was launched into the future, found the elements and used them to turn Porre into a military nation.
Pretty much all of the stuff brought up was also addressed. The only thing that was vaguely not addressed was the war between Dinopolis and Chronopolis or whatever their names were, and even that was pretty closed off.
Honestly I don't think there was any plot threads left hanging.
So if you were to cut down on the admittedly high amount of playable characters who would you keep? I mean aside from the characters completely involved in the plot like Kid and Harle it gets kinda dicey. Nikki, Starky, Radius, the 4 Devas, Viper and Fargo are borderline cases since all are plot relevant but could have had their roles relegated to npc status. NOT HAVING ZOAH THOUGH WOULD BE A TRAGEDY Glenn has a strong case because of not only having good reason to be on the team but also actually having character development at the end of his sidequest. Guile could also make the list just for being potentially an amnesiac Magus. Poshul is a weird case where she isn't exactly plot relevant but helps as an early party member to fill the team and as the sidekick/"voice" of Serge during his first time visiting another world
>>323782058 > And was later retconned back in. No it wasn't. I have no idea where people get this idea from; the new CTDS ending shows Magus being transported to a different timeline with amnesia; it doesn't say anything about him being Guile.
> The Guardia thing is also something that wasn't going to be expounded on more than they already said. What are you basing this on? Even the stuff with Dalton wasn't made explicit until DS. I think the fact that Cross never specifically confirms or denies the fate of CT's present-era characters is pretty telling.
Also I seem to recall Belthasar is up to some pretty morally questionable shit that never really gets addressed by the end. The status of the new timeline after the reunification of dimensions is left up in the air as well.
Again, it's confirmed that there were literally plans for a sequel right after Cross's development was finished, so I don't think it's a big leap to assume that such a possibility was on Kato's mind during the development of that game.
>>323782727 Considering the whole DS added in stuff to connect to CC, its not exactly a huge leap to figure it out.
The rest is said in bits and pieces in CC if I remember properly, and it was confirmed it was Dalton back in the PSX version of CT in a cutscene as well, which predated or came out around the same time as CC.
>>323783117 Just because certain major plot points were alluded to in passing in Chrono Cross doesn't mean they weren't being considered as the subject for future games. That's my entire point; a lot in CC is mentioned but not elaborated on, because it was assumed there would be other opportunities to do so.
pros - great OST - interesting gameplay mechanics - okay story (not as good as CT)
cons - too many characters and not enough development - characters aren't really special - tied CT to it with forced CT character appearances and references (it would've been better as its own franchise or spinoff game). It's really a sequel of Radical Dreamers than it is of CT, and both RD and CC should belong in their own universe/franchise
>>323777481 >Saving Razzly >Missing the best scene with Kid in the entire game I specifically let Razzly die in my last playthrough because I want that campfire scene every time I play the game. It should have been a mandatory, unmissable scene.
/v/ doesn't actually like games, so of course they will parrot the meme that Trigger is an amazing game and Cross is a mess.
Cross is only a mess for mental midgets who couldn't be bothered actually understanding how it all went down.
Yes, character development is lacking, but that's because there are so many fucking characters that you can get or choose not to get. That's part of the fun of the game as well, to be honest. So many of the decisions you make have a direct impact on the path the story takes and the characters you pick up.
Anyway, Cross was my favorite game for many years, right up until Trails in the Sky got localized. It's a great game - Better than Trigger by a mile. Sorry, nostalgiafags, but it's just true. In the final analysis, Trigger was a bland, generic game. It was fun during its time, but it has been surpassed many times already.
>>323784063 It was no worse written than Chrono Trigger was. Writing in RPGs generally isn't that great, especially in the earlier days. So, no, that doesn't justify the opinion that Trigger is a better game.
>>323784278 It's not nearly as bad as you think it is, which is kind of my point. You are viewing it as much worse than it actually is, which is why you think Trigger was better. It's simply not the case.
>>323784389 I've played it several times. Both games in fact. It really is that bad. There are huge sections of the game which are pointless even in context and the writing is just pretty terrible overall.
Theres a reason that people say its convoluted, and its not because they're trying to shitpost.
Again, its fine to like the game. The story is actually really interesting when you understand what the hell is going on, but the way it was presented and done is only really understandable in hindsight.
Great OST, good graphics, terrible writing among the worst I have ever seen in the media. Unfortunately you have to play it to see that, and there is always a possibility you will like it. I can't understand how people justify things like a contrived story, with most of said story explained by ghosts on a beach at the ending of the game. I think this one takes the cake.
>>323784610 >with most of said story explained by ghosts on a beach at the ending of the game. I think this one takes the cake. This fucking meme again.
Actually, you're simply wrong. There are some important bits of information supplied by the ghosts on the beach, but the entire story is unraveled slowly throughout the course of the game. Play it again or stop talking shit. This meme is 100% wrong.
>>323784713 >tell me the purpose of that whole dwarf v fairy war bullshit that went on. Oh lord.
Serge had to go back to his home world to defeat the Hydra so he could save Kid. The dwarves' forest depended on the hydra for its survival, so when the hydra died, the dwarves left the forest and attacked the water dragon isle where the fairies lived. Once again, the actions we take have consequences, and the actions the player took to save Kid resulted in the dwarves attacking the fairies. This is a common theme throughout the game.
>>323784690 it is not a meme, I played the game 3 times. Yes you can have some insight, but that's the one and only time everything is said in a coherent way. Also no one tells you directly about Lynx, sorry if I am stupid and didn't understand he was my father all along. I am sorry not everyone likes CC anon.
>>323784990 Cept the Fairies had absolutely nothing to do with anything. The consequence for your actions was rather retarded and fairly unconnected. Further more, there already was a consequence for the actions displayed by killing the hydra and destroying the Dwarves' home essentially.
The actual attack on the fairies was completely and utterly unnecessary even if you were to consider the theme of actions having consequences.
>>323785172 >Cept the Fairies had absolutely nothing to do with anything Did you read the dialogue in this game or no? Because this is pretty basic shit that is explained in the dialogue.
Losing their home taught the dwarves that, in this world, only the strong survive, only those who take from others get ahead. Therefore, they sought to attack and take from the fairies their home. This is "might makes right" idea is another common theme in the game. Kid outright says as much multiple times in the game.
Anon, you're not making the case against my argument that people who dislike Cross don't understand it. You are displaying a failure to understand basic themes that are prominent throughout the game.
Since Chrono already explored Bible myth, the next game should go into Zoroaster myhtology. Why? At the end of CC (good ending/where Schala is freed), she mentioned Zurvan, The Sea of Dreams, in one of her parting speech with Kid. In Zoroaster myth, Zurvan is a God of Infinite Time and Primordial Creator.
The main protagonist should be an allusion of Zoroaster himself. Maybe as the founder of Zeal, since he was regarded as great magician and sage in the myth.
>Chrono Cross is the only game people bitch about the pacing and convoluted story >Xenogears gets a free pass for some reason even though in the latter half you're told to sit down in a chair and listen to characters tell you what you experienced
>>323785668 They were literally happy to torment and sacrifice them. You're chosing to ignore parts of the game to fit the narrative you want, my point has always been that the game is poorly written and this is a good example why.
I mean for petes sake, you've gone from consequences of actions as a justification, only to switch to might makes right when I pointed out that its its superfluous to have in it. Even as a 'might makes right' theme, its pointless filler that barely makes sense.
>>323785956 >you've gone from consequences of actions as a justification, only to switch to might makes right when I pointed out that its its superfluous to have in it Uh, no, holy shit! If this is your level of reading comprehension, then it's no wonder why you don't get Chrono Cross.
BOTH are important themes in the game. I'm not "switching" at all.
>>323773710 >Too many characters(this normally wouldn't be a bad thing in an rpg, but few have any story or sidequest relevance, and most bring little to nothing to the table that other characters don't besides visual/how they look.
Say that to my RADIATA STORIES or SUIKODEN not the internet faggot, i'll fight you
>>323786295 lmfao, I've been refuting you all throughout this thread, but you are intentionally ignoring it.
I already explained to you how the dwarf/fairy situation ties in with two of the common themes throughout the game. That's what you wanted, but no, it wasn't good enough for you. It's clear that you have no interest in being objective regarding this game, and simply want to have others support your ridiculous idea that, just because you don't understand the game, it means the game can't be understood.
>>323786394 And I've already refuted how it both redundant and doesn't even fit the theme in question using the game as evidence. I've also never said I don't understand the game, nor that it has ever been the point of discussion if I personally understand it or not. In fact, I stated that it was a rather simple story written poorly. But hey, as you said, reading comprehension, am I right?
>>323786574 >And I've already refuted how it both redundant and doesn't even fit the theme in question using the game as evidence Except that you haven't, you're literally just a potato who thinks he has. It would be funny at this point if it weren't so sad.
>>323786893 I already answered your question by explaining what the dwarf/fairy conflict was all about and why it wasn't irrelevant, and you refuse to accept it.
Since you obviously need special help and hand holding, I will go over it very quickly one last time. A common theme in Chrono Cross is the fact that our actions have consequences, as seen in the various ways the story path splits off depending on which actions you take. Kiling the hydra to save Kid spurs the dwarves to action, resulting in a massacre of the fairies by their hands. It's directly tied to the main plot and some of the overarching themes of the game.
>>323787075 And I've already explained why it was completely and utterly pointless. The consequences thing was already convered, its redundant. Your actions have immediate effect and you know what they are going into it. Adding a second area to hammer it home is not only redundant, but also moronic, since while your actions might have caused the dwarves to leave, they did not start their antagonistic relationship with the fairies, nor did it force them to attack them.
If you cut out the area entirely, you would have absolutely no negative repercussions to the story, nor would anything be thematically missing.
>>323787420 Except that the dwarves would simply disappear from the marshes and you think there's nothing missing? The attack on the water dragon isle shows that the world is alive and that the consequences are real, you're fucking retarded if you don't see that. The dwarves aren't just going to whine about how evil the world and humanity are and then do nothing.
God you're stupid. "Oh, how dare they give us a living world where actions have consequences, waaah"
>>323787819 I don't have to. You LITERALLY said "The consequences thing was already convered, its redundant. Your actions have immediate effect and you know what they are going into it." What you are saying is that we didn't *need* the water dragon isle to see how killing the hydra impacted the dwarves, but that's NOT THE POINT. The point is that what happened to the dwarves had real consequences in the real world. You wouldn't have that if the dwarves simply cried about their bad luck and then vanished from the game. That's fucking stupid.
Again, it adds to the game, it is not irrelevant in any way. You have no ground to stand on.
>>323788073 And yet you somehow got "Oh, how dare they give us a living world where actions have consequences, waaah" from that.
Its redundant. Do you not know what the word means? It adds nothing meaningful, because what it adds, was already covered. The consequence of your action was shown, and immediately at that. You were also given knowledge of the consequences going into it. Further more, the consequence to this action has too large of a leap of logic to even make sense. You remove their home, so rather than find a different home, or attack humans or even try to attack you.. They attack a completely unrelated third party, and then that third party blames you even if you save them.
>>323788376 >waahh we don't need this to happen >therefore it shouldn't happen It doesn't work that way, dude, which is exactly the point. The real world doesn't work based on "what is needed to happen." The real world is based on "what actually happens." And, what happens is that the dwarves discover through your actions that the strong survive while the weak perish, and go on to attack a group that is weaker than themselves. Again, it is a living world, and actions have real consequences. Why are you not wrapping your head around this? You must be fucking retarded.
>>323788609 Because we're not talking about the real world for one? Narratively speaking, the whole section is completely unnecessary. I'm starting to understand why you like the game so much if you can't understand something so simple. The section was redundant, and therefore not needed for the story.
You're going on about how actions have consequences, and how DA REAL WURLD, but you're ignoring the fact that the action already had its consequence. You save kid, you basically make the hydras extinct, destroy a whole ecosystem and force the dwarves out.
The action has its consequence. Its explicitly stated and executed. What does adding anything after add to this point? It does nothing but restate the same theme and doesn't add anything to it.
On an unrelated note, are you incapable of discussion without sounding like a child and resorting to insults every two seconds?
>>323773394 Since this thread is bait and even on the wrong board, I'm going to jump in and try to salvage it with something unrelated.
I've cheated on my waifu /v/. Her name is Tria and she and I have been so some rought times. She got kind of weird in Star Ocean 3, and after 4, which was just no good, I thought she had left me for good.
It took me years to come to terms with it. I fooled around with Mass Effect but it's not the same. I started fucking around with Xenoblade just a couple of weeks ago and was starting to enjoy it, when I hear that Tria is coming back. Thing is I'm worried it's going to be bad again, with the clubbing me over my head with bad plot and MMO item grind at the battle pace of a JRPG just like before.
She's asking me to have faith, but I don't know if I should take her back. Any thoughts?
>>323773394 Just a public service announcement, if you want to talk about any kinds of old games /vr/ >>>/vr/ is very underpopulated and we're always looking for more discussions. You might get some better responses there.
>>323773394 The combat system, the visuals and music is what makes this game good, the story is what literally fucks it over really bad, they tried to shoehorn the story of cross just to sell a "sequel" and ruined it even worse by adding that stupid gimmick of 1001 recruitable characters, they fucked it up so bad that they ended up cutting content due said character recruitment gimmick.
>>323805212 I recall having razzly on your party before you went for revenge on them after killing the hydra made you find an offspring, however this occurrence was random, sometimes you didn't find shit effectively wiping the hydra forever.
>>323773394 It looks and sounds good but the gameplay - which wasn't that good before that point, mind you - takes a dive off a cliff as soon as you become Lynx because characters like Sprigg make a mockery out of what little balance there is and there are many, many characters that are so godawful that a new player will get screwed over for using them. The story and writing is fucking retarded on multiple levels and as a whole the game feels like a 14 year old's edgy Chrono Trigger fanfic that somehow became canon.
>>323784117 Bull fucking shit. Good writing doesn't involve a joke character turning a small peaceful town into a political juggernaut with a giant army just so you have an excuse to kill off the main characters from the previous game. That is straight up fucking retarded.
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