Does Paper Jam manage to beat Bowser's Inside Story?

>>323724052
That's a tricky question
It does if you haven't played dream team
If you have,no

>>323725074
I've played Dream Team, it's good but too many tutorials. Not as good as Bowser's Inside Story though. How does it ruin Paper Jam if I played it?

>>323725423
There's a lot of copy-paste from that game, and the overworld themes are even worse.
Take the bros attacks,for example. at least 4 of them are taken directly from dream team,and the new ones aren't really that impressive

>>323724052
No.

Paper Jam is worse than Partners in Time.

>>323725846
That even possible?

>>323725846
b8

/v/ always hates on Mario & Luigi. Don't bother asking for credible opinions on the series here.

>>323725959
Sure. Partners in Time at least had imagination behind it. There were still unique characters and enemies. It still had a bunch of creative settings and a decent story.

Paper Jam suffers from the same problem that plagued Sticker Star. The story is nothing more than Bowser has kidnapped the Princess and wants to take over the mushroom kingdom. The locations are just your generic field/desert/beach/forest/ice/castle with nothing to make them stand out.

Remember that Toad catching stuff they showed off during the games reveal? That's practically the only new gameplay mechanic in the game. There is a LOT of Toad catching minigames to be done. And they're not fun. Since you need an 80% completion rate in Toad catching to reach the final area, it's not even optional.

It's the same with the Papercraft battles. They'll lavishly thrown all over the game even though they control really awkwardly since you can't control the camera during them, you have to turn the papercraft the re-center the camera behind it. Also every move you do during them depletes stamina which you have to spend a good minute or so recharging by doing a simplistic rhythm mini-game during combat.

The Paper Mario setting isn't used at all. There's just the Paper versions of the main characters (without a single mention of Paper Luigi) and a few of the assets from Sticker Star slapdashed into the overworld.

It's a huge shame seeing all the creativity driven out of Mario. There aren't any Train murder mysteries or working your way up a wrestling promotion. There's no memorable characters like Count Bleck or Mr. L. There's no funny characters like Fawful or unique locales like BeanBean or Dream Team's Pillow Resort. Everything has just been tarred with the NSMB brush like what happened to Sticker Star.

>>323727045
Keep in mind, the developers had no idea how they wanted the Paper Mario Genre to be when Paper Mario came to life.

>Paper Mario = RPG
>Paper Mario: TTYD = RPG
>Super Paper Mario = Action/Platformer with RPG Elements
>Paper Mario Sticker Star = We don't talk about this

Honestly, Paper Jam isn't THAT bad if you can get by all the annoying Toad catching.

>>323727560
Adding on; Paper Mario should have just stayed a turn based RPG with partner elements. Similar to the Mario & Luigi series of games, but in a papery setting.

>>323727560
>Paper Mario Sticker Star = I liked it

>>323727045
>It's a huge shame seeing all the creativity driven out of Mario. There aren't any Train murder mysteries or working your way up a wrestling promotion. There's no memorable characters like Count Bleck or Mr. L. There's no funny characters like Fawful or unique locales like BeanBean or Dream Team's Pillow Resort. Everything has just been tarred with the NSMB brush like what happened to Sticker Star.

They do a good job characterizing the characters they do have though. The Koopalings and Bowser Juniors get big development compared to most Mario games.

>>323725423
>it's good but too many tutorials.

A majority of the tutorials in Paper Jam are now skippable, and dialogue can be fast forwarded through now.

>>323727719
I thought it was a good distraction.

>>323727045
I'm so fucking glad. Maybe Nintendo will become irrelevant to the point where you won't even bother trolling because you obviously didn't play the fucking game.

>>323727830
>The Koopalings
So I hear.

Well it's a step up from just being no dialog mini bosses in SSS.

>>323725729
Except unlike in Dream Team, the controls actually function.

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>>323728406
But I did tho

>>323727830
>A majority of the tutorials in Paper Jam are now skippable, and dialogue can be fast forwarded through now.

all tutorials except one which introduces a new mechanic to the series.

While I will admit I'm blinded by Nostalgia for SSS, I feel that it's SSS > PJB = DTB > BiS > PiT

Dream Team and Bowser's are close, although if DT was sans the tutorials then it would be potentially higher than PJB. I don't play this game for cataclysmic twists and turns, I play it for characterisation of the characters I know already in unique situations. I enjoyed Popple in SSS because of his interactions with Rookie and Birdo, rather than because of his character as a whole. Fawful was great and unique as a character, sure, but by BiS he was bled dry.

Paper Jam had great characterisation of the pre-existing characters and did it fantastically. Wiggler's hair trigger less being a short temper and being nearer to straight up psychotic tendencies is one.

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Ever wonder what Miyamoto thinks about Paper Jam?

>>323729958
>TOO MUCH STORY MARIO SHOULD NOT HAVE STORY

>>323729139
I have no idea why you would spout this nonsense though.

>>323727045
>>323729139
>Played at most 1 Papercraft battle
>Toad Catching is limited to 2/3 missions per area, which do change from the usual pursuit/hiding
>Paper Mario setting isn't used
We already knew this, becauseLuigi losing the book is a major plot point.
>Creativity driven out of Mario
If anything, this game has done a better Mario RPG than the others in terms of coherence to the existing universe, despite the crossover aspects. Rather than bringing in new characters to flesh out the worlds, it simply develops existing ones.

I like this series, but it pisses me off that their still isn't a sequel that managed to be as good as SSS. BiS came really close, if it cut down on the annoying minigames a bit and the areas were more interesting it could've been my favorite.

I'm still convinced that Beanbean Kingdom is the best setting to appear in any Mario game.

>>323731740
>>Played at most 1 Papercraft battle

King Goomba
Kamek
Bowser Jnr
King Boo
Bowser

There's one for every location. The last one has you refight each of the others one at a time.

BIS is overrated as fuck
SSS is obviously bettert, PiT had a better overworld and attack variety, DT had a better combat system, PJ has two superior Bowsers and an even better combat system

>>323732245
>PiT had a better overworld
haha no

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>>323732716
It was linear, but at least it offered more than grasslands and rocks

Is there any Mario RPG that has anything particularly interesting to do after you beat the final boss (if there's post-game content at ALL)? I recently bothered to play through the copy of Dream Team I had sitting around forever, and while it was a lot more fun than I expected (after all the shit I'd read), realizing there was fuck all to do after beating Dreamy Bowser left a bitter taste in my mouth.

>>323735372
TTYD and Super Paper Mario.

>>323727719
It's my favorite 3DS game.

>>323735618
Is it your only 3DS game?

>>323729768
SuperStar Saga is truly the best. The overworld is so good, and it allows for a lot of exploration. It feels like a Zelda overworld where you get new abilities to open paths.

>>323732245
>BIS is overrated as fuck
This.
It was boring. The overworld was terrible and the forced bowser sections made the game feel way too linear.

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why was this game so good?

>>323735657
No.

I expected to hate the game, to be quite honest. Paper Mario 64 is my favorite game of all time after all. But I ended up loving it for what it is. It's a great Action/Adventure game, with a good deal of exploration and optional backtracking (I love backtracking). The music is wonderful and the level design is amazing. The game was pretty challenging too.

Also Star Maze on this made me smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBMvFzGT_xA

I'm about to start Dream Team. How good is it compared to the other titles, specifically BiS and SSS? All I know is that the game bombards you with tutorials.

>>323735940
It's terrible.

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>>323736448
i don't agree

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BIS is very good, but still the weakest M&L

fight me

>>323729768
Great ranking, I'd just switch Superstar Saga and Dream Team.

>>323736501
>jump to win: the game featuring forced gimmick
It's shit mate

>>323729958
We do, he gave a fantastic suggestion to the dev team: http://nintendoeverything.com/mario-luigi-paper-jam-devs-on-bringing-in-paper-mario-dash-mechanic-more/

> Otani: Some people who played the previous game commented that movement on the field felt a bit slow, and it was decided in an early development phase that we’d introduce dash instead of increasing the movement speed. Originally if you didn’t push the A, B and Y buttons with a good rhythm within a fixed time, you couldn’t dash and you’d stop soon if you couldn’t keep up with it. We created this system as we thought the continued input was interesting even though it was a bit complicated, but when we brought it to Miyamoto, he said: “That’s too much trouble, one button is fine.” (laughs)

> Kobayashi: The X button [dash] is perhaps the most often pushed button on the field. We conducted a survey within our company and some people went as far as saying “you can’t live without dash” (laughs).

In case you haven't played the game, trio jumping with X while dashing is literally the best thing about overworld exploration. Being forced to press A, B and Y consecutively every time would've turned a perfect mechanic into a huge annoyance.

>>323736782
>jump to win
so a platform game?

>>323737056
Except it's also an action rpg. And these two things end up hurting each other. It's a shit platform game because it's too easy since you get stats and none of the common platforming dangers whatsoever, and it's a shit RPG because the battle mechanics are just spamming jump on everything.

>>323737505
>It's a shit platform game because it's too easy
it was pretty easy but I'm a big kirby fan anyways
>since you get stats and none of the common platforming dangers whatsoever
there's tons of enemies, spikes and bottomless pits
>and it's a shit RPG because the battle mechanics are just spamming jump on everything
it's not much of an RPG, I agree, but that doesn't make it any less of a good game. I was pretty disappointing in its gameplay departure from the first two games at first too but I found it to be fresh and fun after finishing chapter 2.

>>323735940
It has the best story hands down out of all the Mario RPGs. Game play leaves much to be desired though.

It fleshes out Bowser Junior a lot and differentiates him from his father in several ways, as well as makes him more sympathetic. That, and the fact that the koopalings talk now, means it's finally ended the godawful piss fit between the two fan bases. So yeah, it's good.

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>>323735940
>That Mimi

is paper jam fun? i played super star saga along time ago and enjoyed it a lot. and also paper mario for 64

>>323738570
>characterized a bunch of recolor minibosses so it's good

>>323738570
>that conversation where Morton mostly ignores Junior and tries to cut things short while the latter is being enthusiastic
>Junior later lamenting with Paper Junior that no-one wants to be with him but his own Paper counterpart
>everything about them in the endgame
Never thought I'd feel for the little brat.

>>323739717
Well, they still pretty much have no personalities, but Bowser Jr's personality is more interesting now that we know he's harboring loneliness.

>>323739882
Jr is cool since he actually does stuff in games. Koopalings are just roster padding that Nintendo is trying to force.

>>323735372
>Decide to go back and try the last few Battle Ring fights
>Pi'illodium X is an annoying piece of shit
>Antasma X is an even more annoying piece of shit
>Would have to do a boss medley ending with these two just to ATTEMPT Bowser Jr.

Who the fuck designed this? It's balanced some levels ahead of what you'd get to beating the game normally, but the game doesn't give you other postgame shit to do that would help you get to those levels. You don't even get EXP doing the Battle Ring, despite bosses being the only interesting thing to fight at that point. I'm not running around Neo Bowser Castle grinding like a jackass just for the last few challenge bosses to be fair fights.