If my favorite genre is MMOs should i literally kill myself at

The only game other than EVE with a chance in hell of being good is project gorgon

But it will never be done due to having like 2 people working on it.

>>323547753
MMO isn't a genre. It's a type of multiplayer.

>>323547753
sauce on the pic?

>>323547753
>group finder

oh fuck off.

Try nostalrius,its a private vanilla server.I started in tbc so i dont have any nostalgia for it but its the only thing filling my mmo itch since everything else sucks.

>>323548259
Are you trying to say group finder isnt anthema to good mmos?

>>323548463
I've been playing it a lot. Its really fun and proved a lot of the things i thought went wrong wtih wow, but i just cant see myself playing it for long considering there is no hope of ever being surprised or taking on a new challenge.Also 40 man raiding is kind of dumb

>>323548548
For me all these raids were new since i never got to play them as intended so theres that.Also whats wrong with 40 man raiding?

>>323548704
The extreme difficulty in finding 40 players that are both skilled and able to make the same times as the other 40 really puts a hard cap on how difficult they can make raiding. Vanilla raiding required lots of effort and grinding compared to later raiding which was great, but mechanically the raids were extremely simple which made them kind of boring

>"Its only nostalgia that makes people even like older MMOs!"
>Go try Nostalrius because current MMOs my friends tell me to play bore me and remind me of weak RPGs with COD game lobbies sewn in
>MFW vanilla WoW almost felt like an actual world and I like the way things are paced far more
>Realize in 2016 that it was just my nostalgia for 2015 that made me like it.

>>323548927
I play a mage so yeah the fights are pretty boring but getting 40 people was never a serious problem for my guild except the holidays recently where we had to pug like 10 people.Also our voice chat is pretty funny and entertaining and enough to get me through the raids.My favorite thing in games has always been getting geared as fuck so that aspect is still there and will keep me raiding.

>>323549149
Yeah as i said theres nothing intrinsically wrong with 40m, its just designing the difficulty around the average 40m makes the fights 100x easier than if they were designed around the average 10m

Black desert should be decent.

I just want Pantheon to come out, I hope it will eventually.

>>323547753
>If my favorite genre is MMOs should i literally kill myself at this point?
Yes. Yes you should. I'm not even reading the rest of the stupid shit you typed. Kill yourself RIGHT GOD DAMN MOTHER FUCKING NOW!!

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>>323547753
>If my favorite genre is MMOs should i literally kill myself at this point?

You probably should, there are a few scenarios for MMOs one of them will almost always happen end up killing it.

1.P2W elements
2.The community demands stupid changes and ruins the game this way.
3.Bugs
4.Goldseller, botter and hacker
5.Pants on head retard class buffs/nerfs


That said I thought Black Desert was decent, but it is very very likely that it'll suck as well.
I mean KR is dead RU is P2W and although NA/EU looks promising so far the community wants it to turn into a WoW clone dumbing down the game and completely change what it is.

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There's not much to go around here for, you could go for Mabinogi or Ragnarok Online but that's only if you know enough hangul/moonrunes to play on the foreign servers, and even then despite the well knitted communities, the people there barely even play.

It's over friendo, MMOs are DEAD.

>>323554160
Guess I'll just live in the past as long as i can with nosalrius/corecraft and then off myself when i get bored

>>323552902

I've literally never seen P2W elements in an MMO, and your other four bullet points are stupid. Bugs happen, people whine about balance, and gold gets sold.

MMOs die because they cleave to so many of the exact same gameplay conventions, and those conventions have become ingrained, hyper-specified and expected. MMOs die because every single one of them is the exact same game we've all been playing for nearly two decades now with one or two bells and whistles meant to sell the game. And when those bells and whistles don't appeal to a large enough player base, the entire game hemorrhages.

Take Wildstar, for example. It was the WoW model to a T, but what was its selling point? Skillshots? HxC raiding? Who gives a fuck? Pop, the game died.

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>>323547753
Tree of Savior.

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Something is off in that pic, anon.
Why is there the T4 warlock helm in that picture listed as a reward along gold?

>>323554528
>Themepark shit where they just removed player trading
I don't think so pal

>>323550056

>korean
>decent

>>323554528
>boring solo until level 150 with quests around every single corner - the game
Shit MMO for shit people, already deemed dead by korea

>>323554413
>Ive never seen P2W elements in an MMO
Skyforge and archeage, just to name the last two MMOs I played that got p2w'd.

MMOs die because theyve forgotten what makes an MMORPG great. Instead of focusing on a huge open world filled with thousands of players to do shit with, they focus on playing with your friend group and getting auto matchmade into random groups for instanced content. Instead of focusing on having a diverse set of classes with different roles to play, they make a bunch of stuff that fills the same few roles with different skins

Final Fantasy XI was the last MMO worth a damn

>>323547753
>want to play MMO because I've got no friends, am unscosiable, and want to be a part of something
>wanted to play GW2, but don't want to buy the expansion without which the game is not complete, also it's not entirely what I want
>looking at WoW videos and thinking about installing BC or WotLK again and going on a free server
>realise all I'm searching for is the time when I was 12, without a care in the world and just enjoying myself in WoW, with friends and people from the guild, when I was a part of something
Growing up sucks.

>>323555717
see
>>323548951
You'll never recapture your youth, but playing a vanilla/bc server is still 100x better of an MMO experience than the alternatives right now

I dont think that MMOs are dead, but no publisher is willing to pay any money for them if they dont have a cash shop or means of quick jew gold.

The subscriber method is a slow-building, reliable source of income if you have the time to grow the userbase.

I wish some company would pull a Verant and bring back a good sandbox MMORPG

>>323552902
Is this game playable yet?

I remember all the hoops to jump through just to download the game, and then I still need a VPN to play online

All MMOs have always been garbage except FFXI when is now casual garbage too after the 75 cap lifted

>>323555832
That's what GW2 lacks and WoW has - WoW, almost, feels like a real, living world. Due to the knowledge of the offline games it has a great lore that, in the first two or three expansions, is still well handled.

In GW2, zones are individual maps, everyone has their own loot, minerals and trees to gather, this breaks the immersion greatly. No world PvP, the WvW idea is weird, like, interdimensional battles for something... ? While in WoW you finish a quest, it's done, you changed the world (somehow). In GW2, while the overall system is interesting, finishing a quest just to see it being repeated 10 minutes later is, again, immersion breaking.

When you die in GW2 you are resurrected at a waypoint, that's weird. In WoW you spawn as a ghost in front of the angel. It's all these and other (small) things that make WoW superior in this regard. I just can't feel like I 'belong' in Tyria, while I felt at home in Azeroth.
Never understood all this recent need for phasing and zoning in MMOs.

Same goes for UO, a living world.

WoW also has great walking, the characters have weight, which GW2 lacks.

>>323556481
>wow almost feels like a real, living world

maybe 5 years ago. Wow has been being cut into smaller and smaller pieces. after you finish leveling, 99% of wow is experienced from your garrison, teleporting or being summoned around to different instances

>>323548259
As much I hate to say it that groupfinder bullshit is good but also terrible. I miss exploring the fucking world, socializing, looking for parties. Nowadays every fucking MMO is jsut idle on random town and wait for group finder instead of walking through areas and asking for people, yes, it was fucking tedious but at least you had a good time

Try WildStar.

Bitchin'. No p2w because they literally just removed the subscription cost and there's hardly any limitation. No reason to spend money at all, actually.

>>323556616
>play Tera
>game might as well just not contain a multiplayer element outside of instanced dungeons/events/battlegrounds

>>323554160
>That picture
you forgot about instanced/new areas every fucking corner, literally run across the line to load to a new map
>>323554413
>literally never seen P2W elements in an MMO,
you poor soul, i have seen MMOs with attribute/damage enhancers on cosmetic gear, and trading said cosmetic gear is impossible

I've been playing a WoW TBC private server, it's.. mostly okay

>>323547753
If you consider killing yourself over stuff that happens in a hobby, you should definitely kill yourself regardless.

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>>323555332
>try XI
>competent and sane players every other corner
>content moderately challenging to today's standards
>legitimately friendly people (as long as you are not an ass or too slow)
>try XIV
>retards on every other corner
>game takes your hand to story theme park
>extremely tedious and pointless crafting (i would love this but I'm not teen anymore)
>market monopoly here and there
>no Final Fantasy feeling
i fucking love XI white mage

>>323557181
forgot to add (probably common?)(
>XIV
>Dramawhores not everywhere but noticeable population
>Most drama is caused by sexual tension
>Seen a Free Company tear apart because an specific member didn't ERP with their FC leader

>>323556616
>Add Bulletin Board to cities
>Access board to look for groups
>make your way to the dungeon, not with teleporting, but on your goddamn dragon/helicopter that goes across the continent in the time it takes to microwave a Hot Pocket (and somehow is still not enough for people)

Literally all I need to rationalize it.

>>323556673
I'd like to play Wildstar but dodging red shit with 250 ping is literally impossible because there's NO lag compensation at all.

>>323556564
I stopped playing in WotLK so I wouldn't know.
I would really like to know how come modern MMOs are being chopped into smaller instances, phased etc... this only makes the playerbase more scattered and the world feels wrong.
I wonder if WoW and older games managed to have open worlds because there were no large scripts and events going on (such as the GW2 quest system) and the map was just a few NPCs standing around giving you a quest.

>>323559657
Questing wasn't a major thing until WoW.

>>323559814
Hm.
That still doesn't answer my question.

>>323547753
>If my favorite genre is MMOs should i literally kill myself at this point?
Yes, bye OP. WoW killed MMOs in 2004.

>>323561097
>WoW killed MMOs in 2004.
I wouldn't be so quick to repeat his meme over and over, anon.
WoW, at least until BC and WotLK (minus the game being already too easy), was still a solid game.
It was all the other companies that wanted to be as successful as WoW, not realising that never again will there be an MMO with over 10M players.
Also the influx of casuals that's damaged the industry as a whole is guilty of fucking up MMOs.
Needless to say that WotLK released in 2008, a year after the start of The Big Bang Theory, which has, by the time, became popular enough to lead more people to videogames.
So, again, it's the TBBT's fault.
Fucking show ruined everything.

>>323561656
>WoW, at least until BC and WotLK (minus the game being already too easy), was still a solid game.
This must be why you would get banned if you posted about it here.

Oh wait.

>>323548463
this. I started in early bc so I never played vanilla, but nostalrius is 10x more fun than anything in retail right now

>>323561784
I came to 4chin in 2009 or 2010 when I was underage and only browsed /b/ because the porn there was often in my age category so no idea what you're talking about.

>>323547753

Anything coming out in 2016?

As long as its better than current WoW or FFXIV I'll be happy desu.

>>323562223
https://albiononline.com/en/
This looks interesting.
Like a modern take on UO.
Not sure when it's coming out, haven't played it, don'T have much info, only have seen a video or two.

>>323562326

Ah, I'd also seen BDO - that looks alright.

I just want a timesink with good guild functions and raids...

>>323562531
Yeah, tell me about it.
Apart from uni, where I don't spend all that much time, and lifting, I have nothing to do.
I'd like to get into some graphic modelling, but am on laptop as my GPU died few months ago and don't want to buy a new one because Nvidia is not compatible with DX12 and I often hear bad things about AMD GPUs.
I mean, if I buy 960 incompatible with DX12, will I be able to play games in the future once they transition to DX12?

>>323562771

I got a R9 280 instead of a 960, didn't have any issues - I assume the 380 is the same.

Either save for a 980 or wait for Pascal, or go AMD - the 960 is shit, 970 is alright but has the 3.5 problem.

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Oh what a surprise. I was just in an MMO mood for once, and was about to make a thread bitching about why WoW has gone to shit for me.

I never played Vanilla WoW unfortunately, I played a bit into the BC era.
It was fun. Real fucking fun, actually. I enjoyed grouping and doing instances to level, I enjoyed the good items that you got from said instances, I enjoyed taking my time to level, and not rushing to max level like everybody else seemed to want to do.

Now though? Early game is dead. You wanna run those early game instances? Too bad, because anybody that is playing early game now is just a bored veteran who wants to add another max level character to his account, so he'll level up the quickest way, which is NOT by doing instances.

You wanna know what I want more than anything right now? WoW to be wiped.
It will never ever ever ever ever happen, I know, but I'd fucking love for that to happen, I'd actually start playing again. Sure a lot of people would still race to max level, but a lot of others would run low level instances again.

I haven't played an MMO in years, but in my teens, I dedicated quite a bit of time playing them.

>4 years playing UO
>4 years playing Lineage 2
>1 year playing WoW

UO and Lineage 2 were great for PvP, but WoW was absolutely wonderful for its PvE. Instances are extremely fun.

I feel like playing either a UO or WoW server now, but it would have to be fresh. I hate starting up in games where everybody is already at end game and just idling doing fuck all.

>>323547753

WoW killed the genre

you may want to check out www.project1999.org

>>323563332
A wow wipe wouldnt help wow at all. The "early game" as you put it would still be a huge joke, simply because of the way it is balanced.

In modern wow, you out level a zone in half the time it takes to finish the quests there, leading you to leave huge parts of the story unfinished, and making you jump all around the world.

Between dungeon nerfs and character buffs, 5 mans are a complete joke. Thats good, because considering you are randomly match made with god knows who hard dungeons would be a fucking travesty.

There are nearly 0 group quests anymore, so without interacting people with group quests OR dungeons, half the time you feel like you are playing a single player game.

CRZ and hyper imbalance of factions on each server mean that people you fight leveling up will very likely never be seen again, meaning no kind of rivalry or companionship will be made through leveling.

FUCK modern wow, blizzard would need to go back to vanilla or early BC start redesigning the whole game from there to make it good again.

>>323562910
I've always had Nvidia so I'm a bit worried about going AMD, most games I play have the 'Nvidia meant to be played' bullshit going on, but with how bad nvidia fucked everyone over with the 9xx series and DX12, it may lose some userbase.

>>323563714
>A wow wipe wouldnt help wow at all.
I never said it would. I said it's what I want to happen.

If what you say about them nerfing dungeons and buffing characters to make the instances a joke is true though, then I guess I don't care enough about WoW for them to do anything to it anymore, because the dungeons were what made me like the game so much.

>>323564725

All the games I play have the 'meant to be played' thing, but I get better performance than a 960 - I had owned nothing but Nvidia before.

You have to either get the top cards or wait for Pascal really.

>>323563714

What MMOs are you looking at/playing for the future?

>all these wow ruined MMO posts

you guys are right, but youve got the date wrong. Wow ruined MMOs in 2009, when they released their automatic dungeon group finder.

>>323564969
The leveling dungeons are jokes you breeze through, the max level 5 mans are pretty easy too and lack substance. The raids are still pretty good (when you set them to the hardest difficulty), but good 20 man content does not make an MMO

Camelot Unchained looks cool.

>>323565045
Absolutely fucking none, which is the disgusting thing. There are so MMOs I'm looking at to maybe one day hope they could be be good, but nothing I would look at and say "yeah that could be the n ext great MMO."

The closest thing to a new MMO I'm looking forward to is Corecraft, a WoW BC private server that has been being hyped since like 2010

>Played Aeon for a bit
>It was shit
>Played Rift for a bit
>It was okay, but shit
>Played Tree of Savior
>It's shit

I don't think these fucking idiots know what they need to do to make an MMO.
You can't make an MMO with the amount of content that vanilla WoW had and expect that to be enough when WoW has as much content as it does right now.

Of course, nobodies going to be able to compete with that, but still, you absolutely cannot release your game with vanilla WoW tier content, it just does not work that way. WoW keeps setting the bar higher, so you need to make sure your game is fairly fleshed out and packed with content if you want to get people to play your game.

And stop with the fucking P2W model, nobody likes that, and you are sentencing your game to death after a mere 6 months.

Play fucking Ultima Online in UO Forever shard you filthy peasant

rift was really good before it died and went f2p

also tera is really fun to play

Is Rift really that bad now?

>>323566994

Yeah.

Blade And Soul in 8 days

>>323567237

Isn't it all arena shit though?

>>323554413
Worst post I've read in a long time, you know if you were doing a joke some epic meme or whatnot I would've said fine, but you are actually serious with that bullshit you are really a sad existence.

tl;dr get cancer you stupid fucking idiot

>>323566994
>Trion
What do you expect, they ruin everything they touch.

>>323567404
archeage could have been great :(

>>323567279

No, there's PvE too

I wish MMOs had more customization
Like in TESO, you can be a Werewolf or a Vampire, which apparently is a load of shit but how fucking great would it be if there was an MMO with tons of choices like that, choose your Race, your class, your sub class, your sub race, your crafting skills, being able to make your own character that isn't just a copy paste build.

>>323565736
>WoW keeps setting the bar higher
kek
or maybe just maybe instead of releasing failed wow clone#224 release something fresh and unique.

>>323568112

Oh, I might try it then.

I thought it was just ring-fighting shit because every gameplay I see is that.

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>tfw really enjoyed XIV until Savage Alex dropped and I realized that the grind was all that was left, especially since I didn't have friends to play with

Of course I can't expect games to be playable forever but hearing about how bad 3.1 was made me want to come back even less

I'll come back at some point, just not anytime soon.

>>323568248
>Check Blade and Soul
>Oh cool, a Summoner class, I fucking love summoners, I wonder what I'll be able to summon in this game? Elemental creatures? Demons? Savage animals?

Nah, it's a cat.
Dropped.

>>323562326

This actually looks fun, but of course there's premium shit in it

I want a D&D MMO that doesn't suck shit.

>>323569307

Mah nigga.

>>323562326
>pay to play the beta

fuck, man. i just want to play this shit already.

>>323569610
also,

>buying gold

fuck that

>>323559814
It was, but only as far as unlocking areas and items went. WoW made quests the best source of solo xp and added a narrative to your basic grinding process.

Okay seriously, I need to play a summoner.
Anybody know any good games in which I can play a summoner class?

>>323569307
That's like wanting a D&D movie that doesn't suck shit.

Which is impossible.

>>323569307
D&D is pretty shitty mechanic wise for an MMO, although it could be fun to see a setting brought to life if they didn't fuck it up.

Are there any decent MMOs where I can play as a Lich?

>>323571076
My dream is basically Knights of the Chalice gameplay with all the MMO shit laid on top. City with hubs for quests and crafting.

Randomly generated dungeons.

I don't care about story, plot, characters or lore, I just wanna dungeon grind an actual difficult turn-based D&D game.

>>323571713

I agree - there's 3 things I would love;

>randomly generated dungeons
>good cities, with hubs like you said
>Good guilds - you can construct your own guildhall and unlock NPCs

>>323568474

I think the endgame in XIV killed raiding entirely for me for the rest of my life. All the game showed me is how much I love doing everything BUT raiding, so now I am on the hunt for an MMO that isn't all about endgame raiding.

The worst part of modern MMOs is the questing systems.

You get 5 quests in a hub, you do them all and get 5 more, then you get a quest sending you do the next hub.
Each hub is just a small output with a few essential nps.

Where the fucks here's a town, these are our issues, fill your questlog and get cracking all over the zone lad.

what's going on with Everquest Next? Is that still a thing?

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>>323572021
muh nigga

it's never gonna happen

>>323547753
>Eve Online
>Population slowly trickling away
>Fansites closing down, most recently Battleclinic
>Devs can't really fix anything because most of the games core mechanics are based upon 12-year-old code that no-one understands anymore

Eve has been in it's death spiral for a long time. It's just become too stagnant. CCP's constant attempts to diversify show that they see it too.

>>323572265
>The worst part of modern MMOs is the questing systems.

Basically this. Questing in WoW is what made the genre tolerable to most people, where just grinding random monsters was the previous method. People are sick of general ass quests at this point though.

Hell, arguably they're sick of MMOs, which don't even take advantage of "Massively Multiplayer" these days. You've got hubs that act basically as lobbies and then instant transportation to whatever activity you are doing with 4+ other random people who don't want to talk and just want to get their shit done.

>>323550056
>>323554951
Just got here, BDO is actually gonna be good. The CBT has shown great promise and most of the problems have been resolved since then for CBT 2.

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VR MMOs WHEN

Is there any last hope for MMOs? Do any upcoming ones have the most potential at turning into something sort of good?

Can someone give me something other than TERA with good combat? I like it but man I just wish there was a better community

>>323573165

I hope so. I am already kind of disappointed in ToS so my hopes of future MMOs is pretty dim.

>>323573390

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>>323554160
>Get Dancer and Red Mage to around 70
>tfw there's so much stuff you don't know where to start

>>323573165
BDO is garbage.
It is well known for having absolutely shit PvE.
The world bosses are pitifully easy and just flail around doing nothing. They're nothing but HP sponges.

Other than that, there's no end game what so ever OTHER than PvP'ing.

95% of other new MMO's have tried that model, and it doesn't fucking work at all. Good, challenging PvE is essential for a games survival, otherwise end game becomes boring.

Until Black Desert gets some quality end game PvE content, it will never survive. It's going to flop like every other recent MMO for this very reason.

Also, while I'm here shitting on the game, 7 classes is simply not good enough. Especially when there's little to non customization for said classes.

>>323573462
gw2

:)

>>323573748
Damn, meant for >>323557181

>>323573748

>that feel when I completely missed FFXI

I feel like I missed out on something great.

>>323573776
I know it's bait but GW2 is so boring combat wise.

>>323573390
Give it a few years. It'll happen. Everyone wants it too much for it not to be developed, but the tech has to have a year or two to settle in first.

>tfw imagining what VR will be like in the next five or six years when stuff like omnitreadmills and full-body tracking gets refined

We won't get perfect-immersion neural interface stuff for a very long time, though. I'd be surprised if that tech ever becomes consumer-ready in our lifetimes.

>>323573865
There's about 900-1.2k active on Asura, that's about how much people there are on a popular MMO server anyway.
All the instance stuff and seeing other people are cross-server

>>323556616

I feel the same way. I know why they do the whole dungeon finder thing in MMOs nowadays but I can't help being a little nostalgic for the old days of XI and vanilla WoW. Although fuck if I have time these days to sit around for an hour (and thats on a good day) putting a group together.

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>been playing MMOs since 2000
>every modern MMO is shit
>try Nostalrius
>only reminds me how boring vanilla WoW was
>try Project 1999
>legitimately too difficult to get into it by myself
>none of my friends want to join me because they're all wowbabbies

>>323557181

>XIV
>No FF feeling

Bullshit. This feels way more like a mainline FF than XI ever did. The story is decent if you pay attention to it (and admittedly ignore the stupid pointless busywork).

Everything else in your post I completely agree with though.

>>323547753
>If my favorite genre is MMOs should i literally kill myself at this point?

Yup. MMO's are fucking shite.

>tfw the only actual MMO that's still alive to this day is Runescape

You can say it's shit all you want, OSRS is the only game where you actually need to have your money on you to buy stuff, you can kill whomever you want and take their shit, and it actually has skills for basic survival and combat techniques.

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>there isn't even a wildstar general
Holy shit is the game that bad that not even the autists here will touch it? I bought it at launch because i had tons of free cash and i'm retarded and haven't touched it since. Fuck.

>>323572418

I just don't see why - it wouldn't be hard to make.

You take dungeons from vanilla WoW or something.

Cities would be the hard part.

Guildhall interactions you could literally copy and paste from shitty survival meme games - except it would actually be good in this case.

>>323574561

What pisses me off is that I have to start again on my old account.

Why can't I just keep my stuff reeee.

>>323574346
Haha look at this funny motherfucker. XIV is just a hashed together nostalgia grab of elements that don't go anywhere special. Yes I'm aware FF games have common themes, but remind me the last time FFXI straight up ripped shit like magitek armor and the gold saucer from original games and repurposed them to give some players a circle jerk. Or you know, all of the base races in XIV being blatant clones of the XI races.

Sure it's got its own story, but fuck man it's not worth the game it resides in to experience and the impact of it is so much lesser because of that. There's a reason why everyone who played XI loves CoP, it's because it was a good story tied to exceptional MMO content that was both challenging and fair; it created a solid link between story and gameplay that makes investment occur.

Playing XIV just for the story is like dragging your dick through a mile of broken glass just to read a decent book.

Why isn't there a game like OLD Haven and Hearth, except not on shit servers, and with more than 100 players?

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>the only worthwhile mmo is toontown online

>>323561723
>tfw your dog is going to die one day kinda soon

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>tfw the only MMOs to make a decent static in now with friends are FFXI, Mabi and SMT Imagine
Friends with time in their hand, not normies

>>323575204
S-she's only eleven. Border Collies have a lot of time...

>>323575360
stop shitposting and give her a hug anon

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>>323575315
>playing with friends
I used to make so many friends while playing MMOs, that I'd barely ever ask friends I already had to play with.

Nowadays? Holy shit do I have to beg friends to play these shitty games with me, an exception is jap and korean variations, but my hangul is weak and the japanese variation is slowly dying out and becoming nothing more than mothers with too much free time playing the game for 2 hours every day and then afterwards using the games as chatting clients/methods with other mothers.

I don't care how shitty your games are mr. developers, please just let me make new friends trough awful party set-ups instead of instanced dungeons again, please.

>>323574561

I haven't played RS since RS2 was in beta and I would still say this is the case. I have been really thinking about getting into runescape after such a long time of not playing it since it really does look like the only non-themepark MMO that isn't shit and has a good emphasis on crafting and gathering, both of which I fucking love in MMOs.

Who wants to play an MMO with me?
Or should I say, who wants to spend 4-6 hours downloading, installing and updating an MMO, then playing for a few hours before getting bored with me?

>>323576503
It's really fucking funny. As a kid, I tried again and again to get in to Runescape, but never going it worth investing myself in.

Now that I'm 22, and have played WoW for ten years, I'm getting in to it for the first time, and really appreciating some of the things I lauded it for years ago. Little things, like spells costing runes that players can craft to find an economy, or mundane shit like chopping wood actually having a demand and value that drives the player base.

>>323576660
that's any game ever with me

How does Ragnarok Online hold up? I haven't played it in a long time, I think before Satan Morroc.

>>323576763

I feel the same way after playing WoW for like 8 years. It's the simple things that really engages you into an MMO and not just a complete focus on party combat.

>>323547753
There has been a bunch, eve is merely the only one to remain standing.

>>323576763
>>323576971

Have you two tried Haven & Hearth? Sounds like it might be something you would enjoy.

>>323576863
Ninja got new jobs in their path depending on gender and now you can play as a small cat summoner

>>323576660

I don't mind, although only if you'll wait for some of the new ones like BnS, BDO etc.

>>323577714
It's turned p2w recently though, unfortunately.

>>323577714

I have not, I was sort of interested in it when /vg/ used to have generals but I guess they died a while ago.

>that feel when I enjoyed DDO

It felt like an actual all right game. I really love dungeoneering in games and DDO felt like one of the few MMOs that actually did something good with their dungeons, it just sucks I had no one to play with and there really isn't much of a community.

I was big into MMOs then got a job. Can't raid on Mythic anymore and anything below that feels like casual shit to me.

>Dofus and Wakfu are 2 of my favorite MMOs
>both are fucked due to lack of non-french players and too much encouragement on multiboxing, removing a need to play with others

I like Ankama and everything, but there has been some really bad decisions.

>>323578389
Main problem was the grind. When you can just go out and grind on mobs it's not that bad, when you have to grind the same story segment over and over it gets really annoying.

>>323578517
Ankama decided to shit the game up with every update. The last beta right before release for wakfu was 20/10 best game ever. They just keep removing what makes wakfu good in favor of casualising and soloising it.

>>323578389

Yeah - I'd love another DDO.

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>>323548259
Group finder became a necessity - in conjunction with cross-server grouping even - due to the fact that if an MMO has content that requires grouping, it quickly becomes nonviable due to numerous "issues" that crop up after the initial "this game is the hot shit" rage during beta and the first month or two after launch, you know, issues such as the game being fucking dead.

You can either chose two scenarios:
- Group Finder: pretty much everyone is guaranteed to do the content because getting groups is easy
- No group finder: content becomes gated not only by gear, but by the general social retardation of the public, forming guilds, dealing with the "metagame" of cunty personalities.

People don't want to deal with other people more than they need to. Group finder exists in an age when divorce and Tinder are hot.

And to ice that cake, MMO's - ironically - are usually the escape-from-the-real-world solution for people who typically are a bit misanthropic.

I personally miss games without the group finder, but I'm honest enough to say I don't think I'd have the patience today that I had a decade ago in SWG, or EQ2, or whatever, spamming some zone for a tank or whatever.

Even though that all made it more special and rewarding when friendships and prestigious groups were formed.

It's dead, and you can't go back; sort of like marriage, and nations and localized economies in a gloablized world.

It's ogre, it's all ogre, it's habbening, surrender to benis.

Anyone play vindictus? How's the combat, and how bad is the grind? I haven't played in like 3 years.

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>>323567237
>Sign up for beta
>No invite
>Just random emails about new content they're adding to beta
Fuck those guys.

>>323567237

I looked up nothing for Blade and Soul, does it actually look like a good game? Lewd doesn't do anything for me if that is a pro to the game being good.

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What went wrong?
Wasn't this supposed to be the savior of MMOs?

>>323579028
Combat is great but becomes repetitive after a while. Holds up surprisingly well. Grind is pretty bad though.
Not an MMO.

>>323579553

I would like to know the answer to this too.

>>323579553
Devs jewed out.

>>323579553
I wish I could see all of those anons faces when I told them after closed beta that this game would bomb, and everyone told me I was wrong. Look who is laughing now.

>>323579739
Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.

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>>323579028
I've played it since release and still enjoy it. It's the only "mmo" combat I enjoy after trying tera and blade and soul and hating them.
They made the grind much smoother, you shouldn't have to do any one battle more than once anymore

>>323579565
May not be a true MMO, but when every MMO out there is the same thing - queueing for dungeons and instances and soloing just about everything except for more difficult content, with little to no actual need for partying up and player interaction - I might as well just get straight to what I would like out of an MMO now, right?

>>323579858
Sounds great, will install today. How's optimization, is frame rate consistent?

>>323547753
your favorite genre isn't mmo, it's social interaction

mmos are chat rooms with time sink minigames attached

>>323579352

>go to BnS site
>have to pay for the beta

Yeah fuck this.

>>323579553

People wanted the next Ragnarok Online, a game with next to no quests and is completely open world. ToS is neither of those things and even the grinding is pretty boring.

Oh the time before AE.

>>323548548
>Are you trying to say group finder isnt anthema to good mmos?
Convenience is anathema to engagement

>>323548951
Yeah, I was surprised when I tried it a few months back. The way the world is set up and how it required you to get engaged with it made the community better. I don't know what kind of drama they have going on at 60 on the server, but leveling up I was constantly working with others, without groups most of the time, and just having a blast - just like when I first played WoW back in '05. It wasn't nostalgia, classic was just genuinely far better than the casualized turds that represent MMOs now.

If I still had time to get invested in an MMO again, I'd be playing on Nostalrius or any high pop classic server right now.

>>323576863
iRO and kRO will die out this year, jRO still going strong, private server community still consists of retards who think the new content is shit but in the end play the same old 7 year old content shit

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>>323580093
Helps to not forget the image.

Semi-related
Am I the only one who is hoping for a Borderlands MMO as a "revival" to the series?

>>323580189

I was under the impression everyone just plays on private servers now.

>>323580235
I would rather play FFXIV 1.0 than borderlands

>>323580235
Go play PS2 and complain about p2w like everyone else.

>>323580235
I hope you are

>>323579990
the optimization isn't too great, particularly if you try to host some of the raids that have a lot of effects, luckily the multiprocess hosting they added makes it much smoother for the host

>>323579990
Just because modern MMOs are barely MMOs doesn't mean CoD is suddenly an MMO.

>>323580004
>mmos are chat rooms with time sink minigames attached
Yes, that is indeed what MMOs are. A good MMO, thus, focuses in fostering interaction between players so as to create the most topics of discussion possible. The main paradigms are either "lifesim" (mabinogi, h&h) or "collaborative sandbox" (runescape, uo, tibia, swg, etc.). "matchmaking" is a mistake for obvious reasons. But a bad game is a game all the same.

MMOs describe a genre which defining feature is a focus on spontaneous, meaningful social interaction with strangers in the same way that first-person shooters are defined by ranged combat and a first-person camera.

any anons enjoy Gunbound?

>>323580672
It's a shame so many mmos are trying so hard to phase out player interaction

looking at you Guildwars 2

>>323547753
FfXIV keeps my mmo itch at bay, being forced to do story mode to unlock instances does slow down the game quite a bit, but tanking and doing raids is still fun

>>323580848
>It's a shame so many mmos are trying so hard to phase out player interaction
That's why people who've played actual MMOs keep decrying the death of the genre. Eve is the only MMO which still maintains true MMO roots and yet manages to stay afloat nowadays.

>>323572164
>mmo not about endgame raiding

this is a dream I've still got.

Why's levelling always gotta be a chore? And nothing to do until max level?

Most recent game I played where I did content before max level was Archeage when it launched, and that game went promptly to shit.

>>323580848
I play MMO's to have fun and kill shit with a team, not so I can be in a chatroom talking about how everyones are or people whining about needing help with stuff.

I don't want player interaction, that was the death of FFXI and why so many old MMO's don't work anymore. WoW is fine because I can jump right in and leave whenever I want.

>>323581184
I'm fine with you liking instant gratification but you kinda ruined it for everyone with that mentality anon.

>>323581389
But the hardcore players ruin it for everyone else too. Why do you think vanilla WoW wasn't as successful with their end game content? Most people never even got to see it.

>>323581103
Wakfu was like that once. There were secrets all over the place, many dungeons for each level range, each with their own gimmicks and jokes. Secret bosses, world bosses, hidden emotes. No quests, but achievements which gave customization items for your pet. Many achievements described what the unlock condition was, but how to reach that condition was secret. Partying was a necessity, and there was no dungeon finder; people camped around dungeons they wanted to do and made impromptu parties. There was no trinity, non-healing support roles actually mattered to the point that harder dungeons were impossible without them, and "ultimate bosses" (special kinds of non-dungeon instanced hard boss fights) required ad-hoc strategies to actually beat them. Leveling was the highlight of the game, with all the content you could stumble upon by chance, and experiencing the bosses for the first time. They fucked it up so, so bad though.

>>323556673
How active is it now that the initial marketing push after going F2P is over?

>>323581389
the whole orcs of orcraft garrison of orcs is retarded but atleast I get to play something instead of the old gearscore speedrun achievementcheck bullshit
It's not like I'm playing anything anymore anyway

>>323581184
>that was the death of FFXI and why so many old MMO's don't work anymore.
Exactly the polar opposite of the truth.

>>323581469
The end game isn't the end all be all of an mmo

It's the Journey not the destination.

>>323581469
>>323581389
Why can't there be both? The mentality that's a problem is the mentality developers have that every piece of content should be done by everybody.

Make hardcore raids for hardcore raiders, make more casual instances for people who want to jump into content without going crazy. Give a good crafting system to people who want that and then let everybody coexist in the same world.

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>>323578962
Thanks for both taking out what's been in my head for the past few years and causing me severe depression.

>>323581998

Most people who play MMOs in a post wow universe can't understand that.

>>323580205
FUCK YOUUUUUUUUU FOR REMINDING ME FUFUCKCKJVUHBVUHGFUGIYGBUBVNOUBPURBYFBYGVBVIUYTVCUTVDCIYGBFIYBFVYIBVIYVBUTEGVBIUTBUYTVBVYBYVBYBYBVIYBIYBBLBEVUYBBEVBVKLBEIUYVBVYIUVBYTLYBCLIYH BLIY BWLIYE

>>323581676
Wakfu is the best game that was ruined by the worst devellopers.

>>323582070

Because that would take too much effort for devs eh.

They just want to string together a game and make cash.

>>323582179
And that's exactly why MMOs are shit now.

>>323582116
Maybe conceptually, but the game was fucking trash from the start.

Who here plays 2007/old school runescape? Worth getting into for someone who never played runescape?

>>323581469
Vanilla WoW's endgame was "easy" the problem was gearing up 40 retards and after that, good luck keeping your tanks with you unless they're brotier because tanks that could do Naxx were highly sought.

Also the fact that you needed 40 people to go to most raids in the first place was an insane barrier for Guilds that were of certain nationality.

>>323582106

Problem is every recent MMO seems to be just that - focused on the fucking destination.

I just want a MMO with a fun story I can do with groups that leads into good enough raids (doesn't have to be the fucking focus, just make it not boring shite) and guild building.

But apparently that's too hard.

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>>323579553
It promised something different but gave us more of the same, and in a very mediocre way.
RIP in pieces Ragnarok.

>>323582349
Only if you are ready to spend $10/mo on a game made with 90's tech. You can't do shit in the game without being premium.

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>>323582070
in a perfect world we would have both

but mmos are a long term business, and instant gratification is easly and instantly profitable. Of course i'm not saying it's the only means of making money but it's definatly the easiest

>>323582106
Especialy when MMOs advertise their end game content as the only content worth doing.

>>323582325
Baby steps, Wakfu reached a point in time where it was playable and conceptually interesting. I'll give you the "Conceptually" part because you're right there.

>>323582070
>Make hardcore raids for hardcore raiders, make more casual instances for people who want to jump into content without going crazy. Give a good crafting system to people who want that and then let everybody coexist in the same world.
This is literally what the Raid Finder stuff was all about in WoW and people whined how casuals have no right to see the end boss.

>>323578962
>I personally miss games without the group finder, but I'm honest enough to say I don't think I'd have the patience today that I had a decade ago in SWG, or EQ2, or whatever, spamming some zone for a tank or whatever.
So you can fuck off and play something else, then. Plenty of us still want to group up for shit and talk to people and have MMO's that actually feel like MMO's and not this sterile singleplayer themepark dogshit. That's why Nostalrius is booming right now.

And it's also why the MMO genre is kinda starting to swing back in the other direction, because MMO devs are starting to realize that there's a market for this shit that's not being satisfied and that pandering to the casual WoW crowd is only going to get your game thrown into the F2P bin.

>>323582349

Private servers are your best bet, don't give them any more money.

Try /v/scape if you want 4chan autists, or just find a decent populated one.

>>323582325
It was absolutely fantastic during French beta. The only issues were technical ones like dupe bugs and damage stack exploits.

you guys live in bizarro world if you think you can have your cake and eat it too in an MMO.

there is no way you can make an MMO that caters to both the hardcore and the casuals. no matter what system you implement, someone from both sides is going to whine and complain. the hardcore complaining that the casuals get gear just as easily despite easier content, casuals complaining that they can't do the harder stuff and see certain content, etc.

>>323582349
The only reason runescape was 'fun' to me was that I could play it on the shittiest of computers and while I was unable to play real games.

>>323582467
And he has a point. I payed money back then and 100% of the decent stuff was in the paid content.
Except the dragon quest. That quest was the bomb.

>>323582505
>>323582582
I played during the beta. Balance-wise the game was a joke. I opted to be a healer and got outhealed by damage classes. Fun stuff.

>>323582553

>MMO devs are starting to realize

Which devs with current MMOs or making games in 2016 are realizing this?

>>323582467
>>323582349
For someone who has never played membership is not that big of a deal, really. I played without membership for years with friends.

>>323547753
>EVE
>passable
Nah.

>>323582678
>I played during the beta. Balance-wise the game was a joke. I opted to be a healer and got outhealed by damage classes. Fun stuff.
It's a shame that healing now is so freakin nerfed.
and yeah eniripsa with contre nature is hilarious.

>>323582754

>not that big of a deal

You never played it, so you can't say that.

RS was still enjoyable without it, but it makes a big difference - try playing on a decent private server if you haven't and experience it.

>>323582505
but mmos are a long term business, and instant gratification is easly and instantly profitable. Of course i'm not saying it's the only means of making money but it's definatly the easiest

Completely right. I think there's still a market out there for a game that isn't about that given the amount of "why do MMOs suck now" threads here and the mild success of private servers for older games, but good luck getting any developers with the resources to actually make an MMO to shoot for that niche.

>>323582712
there's a ton of open world survival games with a persistent overworld now on steam and in early access

they aren't exactly the best games but they have their audiences.

and that audience will one day want to raid a spooky dungeon with their friends.

>>323582553
What precisely then is preventing you from playing EVE other such MMO's that have traditional mechanics and still healthy playerbases?

I'm truly waiting to hear your excuse. I'm sure it's a good one on why this game is no good and that game is no good.

>>323582553
>And it's also why the MMO genre is kinda starting to swing back in the other direction

No it isn't. Profits rule, and no company is going to make something in the opposite direction of casual knowing that their shareholders will can their fucking ass. From now until the end of eternity, WoW and Hearthstone are the fantasy of every suit-wearing cocksucker in our capitalist world, and at best you can expect slight deviations from that.

But let me know after your next "hardcore back in time" game releases, where the devs are a year after the release; more precisely, which Starbucks, since I do like to yelp in my spare time about the quality of latte art.

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>yfw arenanet was a decent company with GW1
>2/3 of the founders bailed after working on EotN along with most of the company
>new arenanet is jews and years behind logical thought
>the old arenanet is making zombie games
>have a contract with m$ to make more zombie games

Just pull the trigger already.

>>323582932

>open world survival games

Into the trash it goes.

>>323582896
>You never played it, so you can't say that.
I'm 6000 hours or so and counting so please, fuck off.

It's a great experience for someone who has never played the game to go around F2P and work towards rune and dragon slayer.

Will the realisation hit that there's more content at the membership side? Yes. But that just makes it all the better to become a member.

>>323583009
>>Into the trash it goes.
rash posting aside, i agree

but they're the future of mmos

>>323582116
Mabinogi was also incredible while it lasted.
>light armor or heavy armor is basically equal >you can dodge every hit as light armor but get one-hit if you fail
>heavy armor makes it hard to dodge hits but you can survive several blows
>you can get whatever weapon you want after 5 hours of so ingame, what matters is your skills
>character age changes the titles you get
>titles gives stats and are often obtained with secret conditions
>reincarnation
>secret skill acquisition
>long-ass spellcasting for nukes so that melees can buy you some time against a hard boss for you to destroy
Most importantly at the core:
>all dem life skills
>midi music
>changing character appearance (muscles, fat, tit size) based on food eaten
>armor is basically cosmetic only
>weapons are entirely a playstyle-based choice
>doing no fighting whatsoever is actually viable if that's your kind of thing
>based on celtic mythos

>>323547753
Is the joke that you don't actually play WoW?

Because they do have normal group 5 mans that you can't que for in the form of mythic dungeons that are hard as balls and give great rewards.

Like of all the fucking complains about WoD being dogshit and you try and bitch about group finder for casual dungeons of all things?

>>323583102
They're just the hot thing to make alongside ASSFAGGOTS right now.

>>323583115
holyshit and i thought mabinogi was just some 3d maplestory rip off

>>323583079

>I'm 6000 hours or so and counting so please, fuck off

But you said you never played it?

And like I said - private servers are the answer - you get everything for free, alongside less of your time wasted and there's populated enough servers out there.

>>323583079
You can't "work toward rune or dragon slayer" without paying.

>>323573892
What if gw2 had some force behind attacks, like some kind of poise stat to resist stu-
>wait
maybe placing spells on num keys and giving people dark souls combat is enough? Lock on would be awkward as all hell though.

>>323582793
What's a shame is that it's turned into a pure DPT race a year and a half or so ago.

>>323583247
What the hell are you babbling about? 07 has F2P servers too.

>>323583238
I actually meant it towards the other guy.

>>323583247

You're mistaking dragon slayer for Dragon gear.

>>323582932
I'd actualy play something akin to Yor hunter from the future

>Caveman players, hunting and collecting to feed villages which are player made and player driven by experienced elder players
>Clan wars to steal women and resources
>eventualy explorers find ancient ruins from earth's past
>space ships and laser guns happen

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>>323578962
I would have insulted your opinions, but those dank memes on the very end really appeal to my 4chan pleb attitudes.

Gold star.

>>323583332

Oh, you responded to my post so I thought it was guided towards me.

I play on private servers now anyway, fuck OSRS.

>>323583464
The novelty of private servers wore off for me so fast. It's like literally wasting your time.

>>323583219
How wrong you were.

Also, the combat system was fantastic, it was rock-paper-scissor based (with many complications added of course), and a kind of happy medium between action and turn-based. It didn't matter if your ping was high as long as it wasn't ridiculously high, but at the same time it was a lot more active than the classic click-and-wait system.

>>323583464

My concern when it comes to private server is the community. RS seems like a game very dependent on the amount of people playing since you want to have a bustling market, and private servers don't do that.

>>323576065
I had friends in a guild in gw2, then they added raids and one of our leaders proved to be incompetent and shit at boosting morale.
>letting other officers be batshit insane overreacting cunts
>i asked you nicely to not follow me to green after we went over this 5 minutes ago, why are you yelling at me?
He didn't like it when I tried to boot him off his meaningless position so he posted a bunch of sarcastic smileys and left the skype. haven't played for two weeks.

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>>323583176
Pendragon is the little shit who started this whole mess. If he had just listened to Icefrog instead of going on a huge egotrip, this would never have happened.
Icefrog probably wouldn't have resorted to going to S2 games and making HoN as a last ditch effort to try and get dota off the ground which finally got Valves attention.

Furthermore if Blizzard hadn't been such little shits and let Icefrog handle Dota, they could actually have a decent game on their hands instead of being all "lel you don't even own that wc3 map" and then realizing THEY ACTUALLY DIDNT
Blizzard is a fucking joke. They then got into a lawsuit over owning the Dota name, I can only assume because they were super anal pained over the former incident which caused them to change the WC3 ToS to nazi facism

So of all this complaining, is there really anything not good per se, but decent enough to enjoy in groups with a decent enough community to decently fulfill the itch older MMO players have to play a real MMO?

>>323556564
I know this feel, anon.

>vanilla/TBC
>world felt open and alive, instances only where necessary
>everything felt genuinely huge and you were a small part in a massive world

>now
>sit in garrison
>if I wanna go anywhere there's a button to take me there instantly
>everything is behind a portal or loading screen of some kind
>feel massive in a small world, lore makes you out to be this big, badass commander instead of a simple adventurer

I miss vanilla, but I know going to Nost won't even be close to the same.

>>323583332
You can't do shit in f2p you fag. You can try to buy premium but it would take over 50 hours of work every two weeks until you acquire skills that you can only reliably acquired by being premium anyway. In case you don't get it, 50 hours is much more than $10. Without premium, you get capped really hard in every activity and you're locked out of like 90% of quests 25% of skills outright (as opposed to just capped).

>>323579990
Warframe is another good pseudo mmo, absurd grind though

>>323583342
o-ok

>>323583592

What, you get to do more in less time?

>>323583621

There's as populated private servers as some of the OSRS ones - not total players playing, but on single servers.

But hell, /v/scape is enough for me I guess - I just like to do content and PKing.

And fuck grinding for 99s again on single exp.

>>323583672
Wow got convienienced to death.

>>323583672
If you haven't tried nost yet, give it a shot. The overinflated server population makes the lower level areas really enjoyable because there are people literally everywhere.

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/

>>323582712
Black Desert and Albion Online are a couple.

Like, I don't know if they're going to be any good(honestly kinda doubting it), but they're advertising themselves as these kinds of oldschool sandbox games, and even if they're shit, at least they're breaking away from the WoW mold. I guess it's still too early to really tell, but I'm not feeling completely pessimistic about the future of MMO's.

>>323582964
>What precisely then is preventing you from playing EVE other such MMO's that have traditional mechanics and still healthy playerbases?
I played EVE online for little while, and it's a cool game that fills the role that an MMO should, but it's probably the most boring fucking game ever. 90% of it is just waiting and I can't fuck with that.

There is no such thing as "other such MMO's" because EVE is literally the only actual MMO out on the market right now.

>Profits rule, and no company is going to make something in the opposite direction of casual knowing that their shareholders will can their fucking ass. From now until the end of eternity, WoW and Hearthstone are the fantasy of every suit-wearing cocksucker in our capitalist world, and at best you can expect slight deviations from that.
Apparently indie games or smaller budget/more niche games don't exist now? Ok.

If these companies could churn out MMO's during the 90's/early 00's on relatively small budgets, there's no reason they can't do it in 20-fucking-16 and market it toward NEETs and other sadboys shut-ins. Saying otherwise is like saying that small family-owned pizza joints aren't viable once Pizza Hut moves into town. That's fucking retarded.

>>323583672

Lore becomes even worse when you become the leader of such factions as The Silver Hand, Earthen Ring and Ebon Hold

>>323582467
>>323582754
You really only should have to pay for a month of membership. It's not too difficult to get the GP for a bond in that time, depending on how much you plan on playing.

>>323583770
>You can't do shit in f2p you fag.
Call it Membership for fuck's sake.

And yes, you can. Especially if you're new to the game. It's a pretty good F2P/P2P gate that RS has had forever.

> You can try to buy premium but it would take over 50 hours of work every two weeks until you acquire skills that you can only reliably acquired by being premium anyway. In case you don't get it, 50 hours is much more than $10.
Only shitters would take 50 fucking hours to make two fucking million GP.

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>>323548085
Boy I'd be playing that shit like a jap if it weren't for the wipeouts.

But unless the wipeout is equipment-only, it might be because of the 40 bucks future price, or that I've been tainted with casual filth, to a point in which I can't stand being stuck on the early levels.

>>323583671
There's Eve, but it's pretty unique and not directly compatible. Other than that, no, only private servers of long-dead MMOs.
Perhaps MUDs, though.

>>323547753

mmo's emulate the satisfaction you get from building real world skills. You want these things, but you are too lazy to actually achieve them, so you take the shortcut.

You want the gratification of spending hundreds of hours learning a system, its intricacies, and making friends whom are also interested in the same thing. You want to grow, become proficient, and become a master of your craft, and spend time with like minded individuals.

sadly the time you spend on this skill wont improve your real life, like wood working, welding, cooking, or investing would.

>>323583908

I really do want to try Albion but it just raises so many flags like needing to buy into the beta and it being designed for tablets.

>>323583918
Exactly. I don't want to be the fucking leader of the Alliance forces or the Silver Hand, I just wanna be an adventurer. I should be orbiting the world - the world shouldn't be orbiting me.

>>323583908

I'll admit, I really like the gameplay of BDO.

I hope they give us some Western-looking characters though.

Albion looks alright - is it B2P as well?

>>323583861
>What, you get to do more in less time?
With multipliers and all + literally private servers that are who cares tier it's just not worth it.

Granted, some of the effort is now gone but I felt really accomplished when I hit 99 Slayer back when 15k / hour was a good exp rate for it.

>>323569307
NWN isn't a bad game at all, what are you talking about?

>>323583949
Fuck you're retarded. As f2p the best you can do (thanks in great parts to the trade limitations - who the fuck thought that was a good idea?) is around 120k per hour, assuming no disconnect, no tiredness, several millions in starting capital, and no breaks. As premium, though, you can get millions in a few hours easily.

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>>323557181
>tfw you will never experience the fresh feel of a live XI ever again
Where the fuck is Dragon Quest X when we need it

>>323583908
Black Desert and Albion are a fucking joke you silly cunt.

Didn't even bother to read the rest, because if those games are what you're using as an example of MMO's done right, then your opinion is fucking worthless.

I guarantee that both of those games will be as dead as Rift and Aion within 6 months of release.

>>323554413
Except wildstar was boring as fuck due to the shit balance, every fight was easy and there was never any danger of dying, which contrasts sharply with vanilla/Tbc wow where you could be the subject of brutal Murloc rape at any time

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>>323584209
>DQX
No fuck you don't fucking remind me FUCK

>>323583908
Albion is going full p2w, BDO is bombing even in korea.

>>323584151

>Multipliers and all

That's exactly what I meant - you don't have to waste time, you can level up faster.

Do you enjoy wasting more time for the same thing?

>private servers that are who cares tier

Then don't go on SHIT ones?

>>323547753
Will probably never get released, but might be worth a look.

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/

>>323583115
>tfw used to have a guild on the japanese server
>we had whole servers come and listen to our self made music shows
>i was a super heavy armored bard cleric
never again

>>323584209

DQX would literally be the savior of MMOs if it ever got localized. Great gameplay, fantastic looking and so much great DQ wank is perfect.

>>323584203

>best you can do is around 120k per hour

Confirmed for a literal fucking shitter.

>>323583987
>but you are too lazy to actually achieve them
Why spend 20 years doing something you could do in a week in a game?

Also, where do I learn to fight dragons in real life?

>>323584362
>>323584295
>>323584209
I WANT THIS ON MY PC NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUBxhpJGXc

>>323584296

BDO is bombing because they are all wanking over BnS (which is utter shite).

Not to say BDO is amazing I think it's mediocre, but it isn't as bad as the reception it is getting.

>>323584409
I used the magic that is mathematics to prove it. Fuck off, jagex employee.

>>323584243
>Didn't even bother to read the rest
Apparently not, since I straight-up said they probably weren't going to be any good, you big gay baby.

>>323583987

>real world skills

Where in the real world can I fucking queue up to fight a raid boss?

Fuck off.

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>>323584203
>120k/h
That's not even half way to your imaginary 50 hours.

Besides that, 10 for a single month and working for your membership after that isn't that hard. Starters will do fine in F2P for a good while anyhow.

>(thanks in great parts to the trade limitations - who the fuck thought that was a good idea?)
Refer to my image. It's the same shit Jagex struggled with back when they introduced the complete trade limits and wildy removal.

The bots were rampant for ages after that too until the great bot nuke hit after which bots were gone for the most part. (I doubt they can do the bot nuke in OSRS)

>>323579352
>sign up to beta
>wait around like a tard for invite
>dont go to beta key give away promotion websites
>hurr durr i haz no invite.

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>>323584519

>he can't make more than 120k per hour on F2P

But I guess you don't bot, right?

>>323584296
BnS is out and that needs to die down first.

BDO is the better game of the 2 but BnS has a loli race. See TERA for how die-hard loli players are to their games

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>tfw loved Vanguard

>>323584304
>That's exactly what I meant - you don't have to waste time, you can level up faster.

But that's the thing, I'm playing private servers with multipliers, why not just hand me my 99s and be done with it?

It just completely kills the point. MMOs are about grind, you take it away and you might as well not play.

>Then don't go on SHIT ones?
Private servers are who cares tier because they're not official.

>>323584620
>Starters will do fine in F2P for a good while anyhow.
That's true, but you have to admit it's disheartening when every other NPC you talk to says "you need to pay up for me to talk to you, goy!", and when every other interactible can't be touched without being premium.

>>323584704

Yeah I avoid games like TERA and BnS like the plague because of that.

>>323584362
It's literally the same old shit, though.

Not to mention it wouldn't survive as P2P in the west.

>>323584761

>official

So? Nobody gives a fuck about you anyway - it's the same shit.

>MMOs are about the grind

Speak for yourself, I just enjoy PKing and questing - I can deal with the grind, but I don't enjoy it.

How's skyforge?

>>323583672
>play rp server
>end of MoP, org/sw packed
>othere cities, populated
>start of wod
>cities populated by tumbleweeds
>everyong jerking in garrison
>public rp is dead for 2 patches.

>>323584727

Yeah, rip.

They're working on Pantheon now.

>>323584786
Worst part is TERA is actually fun because its combat is top tier and PvP is really fun, but balancing is kind of an issue for new classes and the end game grind for +15 gear has the most bullshit rng ever

>>323584882
>Nobody gives a fuck about you anyway - it's the same shit.
Do you honestly think that nobody gives about the MMO celebs?

Let's say if Zezima just played private servers and never official, do you think anyone would care about him?

>>323584882
>I just enjoy PKing and questing
Then your grind is minimal.

>>323547753
But TSW released in 2012.

>>323584761
It's not about grind, it's about the community. The grind is there to enhance the community. If you say a level 99, you're like "Woah! That guy is strong, he must have played for a while! I wonder what cool shit he's seen in that time!". When you see someone wearing an armor set you've never seen before, you're like "Holy shit, this is so cool! How do I get that?" and you learn that it's a 0.001% drop chance from some mob, or better, that it requires completing a massive questchain that took the guy a month to complete. When everyone has every item and every level, nobody cares, though.

>>323584785
That just made me excited to get members someday. I actually worked on friend's account just to get to play members content.

>>323584908
1- Not an MMO
2- Pretty fucking shit, combat is very clunky and the grind is real. These don't mesh well together.

>>323585006

That was BACK THEN, there's a difference.

MMO celebs are pretty much dead now or playing ASSFAGGOTS - Zezima doesn't play anymore, gone full normie.

>then your grind is minimal

Which I enjoy! Hence I play on private servers.

>>323585005

For some reason TERA felt really poorly optimized for me. I would get low frame count for seemingly no reason.

>>323585164
It just makes me think "I have to work to actually play?" and uninstall.exe. I play for fun. Grinding can be fun. I want to forget everything about the real world and working when I play. I don't want to be reminded every second that I need to work to play.

I've played wow for 8 years now. It gets tiresome seeing people complain about the game. If you don't like it, don't play it? Yes blizzard appears to pander to the community, mostly in the pvp aspect. I'm still sore over the mage ice barrier nerf in patch 5.1. Ice barrier was a 100k shield, dropped to 50k, post wod squish, 30k absorb. Absorbs 1 hit now, all because it was too OP in pvp.
Meanwhile locks can still bubble for 200k health and no one minds.
Games change, community changes, life changes, you change. If you cant adapt you wind up whiny and bitter about how everything was ruined.

>>323585005

Yeah fuck it.

Maybe BDO can be alright - looks like TERA but better.

>>323585105
Well, I guess that too.

>>323585234
>MMO celebs are pretty much dead now or playing ASSFAGGOTS - Zezima doesn't play anymore, gone full normie.
Zezima does play still you dumbo, most max xp'd still play and with invention more will come back to get 200m on another skill.

Then there are all those streamers and youtubers too.

And it's not just RS, it's all the celebs in MMOs.

Anyone here still play Dungeon Fighter Online?
I haven't played since the Open Beta

>>323548259
Better than spamming trade chat LF1M need tank/healer for an hour in a capital city.

>>323585364
It is, they fucked up something about how mobs spawn when you have your view distance higher, but at full because it loads them all a certain way it sort of fixed the problem but makes it worst at the same time.

Some ini fixes made it a bit better for me but no matter what that game will drop your frames no matter what rig you have. Terribly coded.

>>323585468
If you read up on the forums the team actually is talking to the Kdevs right now about changes for their next beta. I'm really hoping BDO turns into something great, will have more to think about after CBT2 announcement and next dev diary post.

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>>323585416
>If you don't like it, don't play it?
I don't know if you've noticed, but that's what most people are doing.

>>323556616
>>323567676
>every fight is easy and the game is poorly balanced
>have to pay money to participate in economy

>>323585557
Not an MMO.

>>323585491

>Zezima does play still you dumbo

No; http://imgur.com/OFdiqqU

>then there are all those streamers and youtubers too

The most prominent of who are playing ASSFAGGOTS or meme games now.

>>323585742
stop calling things "not an MMO"

>>323585704

I don't even care if it turns out like Rift - I just want a decent launch game again to last me a few months.

I'll read up about those, I just mostly watch gameplay videos to keep me anticipated - CBT2 should be good.

All I need is for it to be released with the changes they have said they will make, CBT2, and non-Korean character possibilities.

>>323585812
When you stop callling 4 player co-op games "MMOs".

>>323582106

WoW wasn't always like this.
Classic, TBC and, to a much lesser extent , WOTLK were about adventuring through the "World" of warcraf, the one we experienced in the rts, every zone (a few zones with the same theme such as eastern and western plaguelands) had their own story and feel and felt all equally important, I actually looked forward to see if the next place i would travel to had stuff that I recognized from the rts.
Meaningful five-man content was a thing and it wasn't put there just to provide heroics to run a couple of times to get geared for raiding at max level, when I finished running through Uldaman.
When I got a rare or epic item I was happy because my character grew stronger, not because I was 5 item levels closer to being able to go from Heroic to Mythic.
Now I hate the game not because it has gotten easier or because Blizzard is catering to casuals but because WOW isn't about the "world" of Warcraft it's about doing a bunch of quests untill you hit the current level cap, running heroics till you are geared for lfr, running the lfr till you are geared for normals and then you can start running the same raid you already ran in lfr with an increased difficulty.

>>323586013
you call any free online multiplayer game an MMO
there is no other name for it, sorry that every MMO isn't 1 - 0 hotbar skill spammy grindy boring bullshit

>>323585798
Whatever you say.

>>323586030
>When I got a rare or epic item I was happy because my character grew stronger, not because I was 5 item levels closer to being able to go from Heroic to Mythic
Its literally the same thing, you got an MC epic which was 10 ilevels higher than one you got from UBRS. You just became more of a cynical asshole

>>323586267

>I can't refute his points
>whatever you say

The golden age has long passed - OSRS is alright, but fuck paying for members again - Jagex is not getting any more of my cash.

>>323585968
>non-Korean character possibilities

I don't trust them to make a good western OC Donut Steel character. What would they even do anyway, the game feels very asian even though it's also medieval.

I just want fucking Blader to be announced. Thats what will make me buy and participate in CBT2.

>>323586218
My sides exploded!

>>323586356
A Friend, SparcMac, Ginger Twat, S U O M I and many others play RS still and like I said, invention is going to bring back people who currently have literally nothing much to do in RS.

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>>323586343
>MC epic
>ilevels
You wanna know how I know that you have no idea what you're fucking talking about, kiddo?

>>323585726
>subs
>doesnt include time toke
>doesnt include people playing with time cards.
Im canadian. Our dollar is at 71c im not stupid enough to pay for a $15USD($20CAD) sub when i can buy a two month time card for $10 less.
Blizzard isnt a nice people like steam. They buttfuck you for their money.
Steam accepts my pathetic canadian coins.

>>323586495

Literally who.

And again, still no access to Members without paying.

Well there is Dragon Domga online...

>>323585005
>and PvP is really fun
I liked tera, but when I played it with my buddies we went through the end content too fast despite not hurrying. then we though pvp could keep us interest but jesus christ how can the pvp in a game with this good of an action combat system suck so much.
it feels like playing on rails

>>323586524
Ilevels were always a thing retard, technically its just a sum of the stat weights on the item that blizzard picked up and ran with because the retarded addon got so popular. Items from BWL had higher stats than MC ones which had higher stats than 10 man items.

And yes Molten Core had epic items faggot

>>323586629
>doesnt include time toke
>doesnt include people playing with time cards.
Yes they do, you fucking idiot.

This is the laziest damage control I've ever seen, jesus christ. I hope you're doing this for free and Blizzard isn't paying you with their hard-earned mount shop money, you little shit.

>>323586642
>I'll pretend I don't know any of them to prove a point :^)

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>>323586772
>Ilevels were always a thing retard
Yikes!

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>>323586629
>nice people like steam

My friend just showed me this thread so I'll give it a shot.

Me and team are working on an MMORPG that will hopefully bring the genre back to its glory days. Its traditional in the sense of a class trinity and basic fantasy setting but were looking for more ways to have it stand out.

What would YOU want from your dream MMO?

>>323586826

>I'll pretend

I have literally never heard of them.

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>>323586772
>Ilevels were always a thing retard

>>323586905
They always were though. Back in the day it was GearScore but it was the same shit. Items had different stat weights since the beginning; you're just memeing like a retard now because you got proven wrong.

>>323586905
He's right, though. Granted thanks to the fucking stupid stats on items some items from lover ilvls managed to be better.

If there were no item levels then there would've not been any reason to progress.