>Demon's Souls >final boss is against a former king

The real final boss of bloodborme was the moon presence anon, it was a cosmic horror.

>>323421171
This

Also, the final boss of the DLC was immense. Literally fighting a newly birthed orphan god as it tries to destroy you in fear and anger.

>>323421292

All the DLC bosses were amazing imo. Even Living Failures had that pretty sick meteor attack.

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>>323420562
Pic related, or one of them, will most likely be the final boss, since so far it's all about the old lords of cinder

Though it might take a weird turn midway into some seriously fucked up ice or chaos shit, which would be neat

>>323421397
They surprised me with that thing. Until you know to stand on the opposite side of the flower it's some hot bullshit.

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>>323421397
Best ability effect by far

>>323420562
>Bloodborne
>Final boss is the very first hunter who has been slowly rotting away in the dream and have been consumed be severe depression

That's not Ludwig

>>323421620

>tfw you realise thats Gwyn

That bracer
That surcoat
That armour

>>323421752
how did you take this pic?

>>323421859
It's probably just "a" lord of cinder, not specifically Gwyn

>>323420562
what about the true ending

>>323421924
When killing the boss you can time it so that once you do the final hit and one more is respawning that new one will stay alive

>>323421859
It's as much as Gwyn as the Giant Lord in DS2 is Gwyn.

>>323421292
Giygas?

I better get that dlc, I love fucking up newly born aliens with incomprehensible power

>>323421620
I absolutely hate the giant design for dark souls 2.

Giant gaping anus face looks so stupid

I thought the fragments of Manus worked well after the Artorias DLC. The whole plot of the abyss spreading in different ways was interesting as fuck and a nice continuation rather than it just being wrote off
Not everything about DaS2 needs to be criticized

>>323423237
NO
DAS2 IS SHIT
SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

On a more serious note, I did like that myself, only wish that Nashandra was a bit better as a boss and more "present" throughout the castle
Aldia was a fun addition, though his bossfight was, again, shitty. He explained things in an interesting way and there was a good researcher feeling to his character.
I wonder if they'll consider or represent this 3rd choice he spoke of in DaS3

Dark Souls 3 is gonna be shit though, you think Sony is dumb? They probably made some deal to make sure Bloodborne is the better game of the 2 so people actually buy a PS4 to play Bloodborne after the disappointment of Dark Souls 3.

>>323424006
>Sony having that kind of money to do deals like that

Living in denial 101

>>323422896
May as well have been.

I won't spoil it for you, but the cutscene and fight are incredible.

Any fight clubs in DaS1 tonight?

>>323424049
SCE has enough money though. More than enough.

>>323424006
Lol do people really believe Sony is that evil?

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>>323424006
>pay money to make a good game
>pay more money to make a bad game
What the fuck?

>>323424006
>Its more effective to fund a company to release a fluke, giving them 100% coverage in wages and expenses, so people buy 2x more copies of your game.
Nigga use your brain, the Yakuza wouldn't even bother with that lame deal.

>>323423563
>On a more serious note, I did like that myself, only wish that Nashandra was a bit better as a boss and more "present" throughout the castle

Elena should've replaced Nashandra in the main game.

>>323423563

I thought the 3rd choice was the one the BotC chooses if he walks away from the flame assuming he's trying to find a way to widespread cure for the curse.
I wonder the fact theres no humanity implies that they did end up curing it in the end

people baiting so easy it's like we're on reddit

>inb4 le pretending meme

I actually was

>>323424610
You fucking busted, senpai. You just make people mad so they forcefeed you shit.

Bloodborne armor design is so fucking awful.
Gothic Hipster looking trash.

Surprised there isn't a fedora tipping emote in the game by now.

>>323420562
In short, no. The final boss in Dark Souls III is going to be the sun itself.

>>323424006
I'm sorry anon but you're probably in the top 3 dumb cunts I've encountered on this board.

Do you also by chance believe that the Earth is flat?

>>323424846
I like it a lot desu senpai especially what they did to the hat so it looks more Japanese game-y with the spiked edges

Elite Knight> Yahrnam Hunter set> Farham set> Fluted Knight

>>323424547
Yeah that would be good
Her curse mechanic was fine and all, but she really needed to have more moves or something

I do love her voice, both regular and the "transformed" (filtered) one

The way she says "Visit Vendrick." when you talk to her in the castle stuck with me to this day. You can feel the scorn in just that one little phrase

>>323424591
Yes that "cure" option is probably it, but he might also have implied some other choice that we are not aware of. The other two, which are also from the first game is to either become a monarch (prolong the age of fire and push away the curse temporarily) or succumb to humanity and the curse

Though I think it has more to do with the crowns and the power of their wearer's Souls that simply keep you from hollowing. There is no guarantee that it's a stable source to be considered a curse though, and it only applies to the wearer, so that can be an issue

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>>323424861
That actually makes a whole lot of sense if you follow Dark Souls 2's story and combine it with Dark Souls 1's characters.

In DaS2 the Four Lord Souls acted like plebs and possessed rulers across Drangleic/ Lordran. Bearer of the Curse put them down easy. Meanwhile Manus' shards are attracted like flies to these lord souls and the Bearer of the Curse deals with the hostile ones too. (I spared the Ivory King's queen. She's pure! Pure!)

However Gwyndolyn wasn't in the game. He is the "Dark Sun". A lot of the PR images of DaS3 so far show a bleeding sun and there are enemies that transform into tar monsters that are black.
Sounds like since the Chosen Undead bullied the trans kid back in DaS1, its coming back more powerful than ever before in 3.
Question is, who's he covering for this time? Probably some family member of Gwyn, like the true first born.

Would be funny if its just the sun itself. It'll be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJpiw-PoO80

>>323425236

>Fluted knight at the end

I'm fucking mad now
Fuck BB and its black non-fitting everything

>>323425442

>there are enemies that transform into tar monsters that are black.

Probably infected by the abyss, i'd think the abyss is gonna have an even bigger role this game

>>323420562
From flip flops between making the King the last boss and making some JRPG ancient super diety the last boss, it's what they always do for RPGs.

>dark souls 2
>kill 4 former kings
other souls game are you even tryng?

>>323425545
>liking duck face armor

>>323425870
You only kill one of them, though.
Well, two if you count Vendrick

>>323423563
Why the fuck does Aldia fight you, though? Why test the fucker who's destroyed countless, much more powerful opponents and overcome much harder odds? He's immortal, so you can't put him out of his misery, so why? You only fight them because they wanted le sad final boss again

What exactly is the goal of the moon presence?
What use does having brainwashed hunters serve it, is it stealing something from them or is it just there because From decided they actually needed to have some representation for the aliens (whose plot point was severely underdeveloped desu) and just threw it in?
All the Bloodborne endings a fucking shit though

>>323426501
According to one theory, he's using the hunters to kill off his competitions, the other eldritch beings so that he may rise to the top.

>>323426501
every great one needs a surrogate

>>323420562
>B-Team
Oh my sweet summer child..

>>323426430

It'll hopefully be expanded on in 3 as I think they meant it his true intentions to be unknown. Might just end up being he didn't want you to link the fire.
With the dragons coming back and him building a big fake one I wonder if that'll be the cure conclusion him and the BotC came to

>>323426639

It doesn't even want you to be a moon slug though unless i'm misreading what your saying

>>323420562
>Not being the same thing makes it automatically shit
There are other reasons that Nashandra is a shit boss, dumbass.
And she isn't even the final boss either you mong.

>>323426501
The better question is why does the Moon Presence's body consist of just bones and decaying flesh? Weird to think that thing represents the moon

>>323426501
Moon presence kind of realized what was happening and was manipulating the hunters and fucking with them in order to do his bidding. The umbilical cord gave someone (presumably from byrgenwerth) the chance to communicate with him, and moon presence, realizing that he could get someone from the real world and not the dream lands to do his dirty work for him, made the hunter's dream and enslaved gehrman. It's also possible that he's the one who told Laurence to imbibe the old blood to begin with, but that's a lot more speculatory.

>>323426501
What >>323426639 said

The Moon Presence is also searching for a surrogate. He might simply have a different method of "impregnation", meaning that Gehrman might have himself been the surrogate and child (since he gains power from the moon), which is also what happens to the Good Hunter if you don't get the cords

>>323426871
don't think it's decaying, I think it's just not fully formed.

>>323426501
It uses the hunters for farming blood echoes. That thing fucking feeds on them so it created the hunters dream and made Gehrmann its slave so there would be a nice loop of hunters running around killing everything and eventually returning to Hunters Dream to get executed by Gehrmann. That is also why you get such a shitload of them from killing it.

>>323426871
He doesn't represent the moon, he's using the moon as a cover for his presence. That is to say that the moon is probably real, at least up until you kill rom, in which case the dream lands and the real world get mixed up and the red moon, which is moon presence, comes into being. I do wonder why he looks like he does though, all eaten up and skeletal. It's meant to convey a sensation of him being both vaguely human and yet totally inhuman.

>>323427102
I'm not sure that he's looking for a surrogate, he has gehrman already. He's looking for people to do his bidding, and if you kill gehrman, he uses you as the new surrogate because the old one is dead.

>>323427084
>>323427102

But what exactly does it gain from it, why let Gehrman kill the hunter and free him from the dream? Why make the hunter sit in a wheel hair rather than go out and kill shit for its unknown goal? If the hunters looking for a cure then why the hell doesn't any of the game make a mention to it?

I get the story telling ways of from being ambiguous but the whole plot just feels sloppy

>>323427240
If anything I got the feeling that the doll feeds on echoes and not moon presence. I also think that blood echoes are kind of a symbolism for how much you've killed. Moon presence has caused a ton of death and destruction in his lifetime, and has accumulated a lot of echoes as a result.

>>323427479
The hunter was looking for a cure because he came to yharnham. The city looks pretty awful and I doubt that any outsider would make a pilgrimage there willingly given its awful state unless he needed to be cured really badly. It's more implied than said outright and it's more of a plot catalyst than anything more. I'm assuming that once the task is done and the hunt is finished, moon presence doesn't need the hunter anymore, or the hunter's dream falls out of contact with reality again, and so the hunter is freed.

>>323427479
As I understand it Gerhman and the doll both work in tandem to get other Hunters strong enough to kill the source of the beast scourge. This is one of the weird things about Yharnam in general, once the night of the Hunt begins it doesn't actually end until the source of the beast scourge has been eliminated. In our particular case the source being Mergo.

Another thing is that the Red Moon primarily heralds the birth of a Great One child. Which means either A.) the Paleblood Moon is the mating call that signals that the Great Ones are getting laid or B.) the Paleblood Moon is MP being pissed off at the birth of a Great One and wants the Hunters in its employ to go kill it.

At first I thought that the Paleblood moon was the result of the Mensis ritual but after finding the notes strewn around I realized that didn't make any sense because Byrgenwerth knew what it was and the note in Yahar'Gul says that their ritual requires a child. Which means it's happened before and they're using the Paleblood Moon for their own ritual.

tl;dr: MP brings the Paleblood moon to signal the birth of a Great One child or the coming birth of a Great One child and the school of Mensis has nothing to do with the it.

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>>323421859

That's actually the Giant Lord.

Why the Giant Lord dresses like Gwyinn we can never know for sure.

Maybe B Team hackery, maybe the Giant Lord wanted to kindle the flame (killing Vendrick) and dressed as his idol Gwynn

>>323427745
Actually I took it more as the Hunter's contract was terminated. The contract in the Hunter's Dream tells you to hunt the source of the beastly scourge. And once you kill Mergo Gehrman, the host, tells you that you're done and you can break away from the dream now. He kills you, you're cut off from the dream, you wake up in Central Yharnam where you started. The night is now over.

Note that this does NOT mean the night didn't happen. Eileen and Djura are also former dreamers but they stuck around Yharnam for future Hunts. Why exactly we don't know maybe Eileen felt bad for the blood addled Hunters and wanted to mercy kill them. Djura we know saw the beasts as people and wanted to protect them. But whatever the case the night of the Hunt WILL come again and when it does you won't be a part of the dream anymore. You'll just be a regular dude who can die like any other regular dude.

>>323427745

The MCs goal being an afterthought is pretty shit desu. What is he even looking cured? He popping tons of blood so i'd assume its a beast curse but the game could atleast have made him look a bit more beast like or sick as the game progressed
Least its not as bad as the NPCs were treated

>>323427479

Like this guy >>323427240# said, Gehrmann kills the hunter to harvest the blood echoes

For MP, Doll or himself? Don't know.

>>323428093
FROM does that on purpose for role playing. The MC could choose to follow Oscar's prophecy or not for their own reasons. The only time we see an MC go somewhere for a specific reason is in 2 where you go to Drangleic to find answers about how to stop your Hollowing.

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>>323423189

One still has a head

>>323424006
>Sony intentionally telling developers to make a game worse so people will buy it, be dissapointed, and then go back and buy a whole nother console and year old game afterwards


The saddest part is that I don't doubt you actually believe such an incredibly stupid "theory".

>>323428395
That's freaky as shit

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>implying DS3 final boss won't be the Choosen Undead

>>323428589
>not Patches wielding the MLGS

>>323428151

Well you'd assume it would be for the MP since he could easily go out and fight some beasts. Gerhmans role doesn't really make sense

>>323428227

You do the same in 1 when the snakes tell you to seek the great lord souls
And in DeS to find the source of the fog

>>323428589

>Not Solaire the Firstborn , the first Lord of Cinder after Gwyn

>>323428589

>Implying we weren't on Oscars ruse cruise all along

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>still 93 days left until DS3

>>323428873
literally a meme character

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I've come to the conclusion Bloodborne is the all-around best "Souls" game

It may nt be the hardest ot most challenging, but it has the least amount of bullshit, and has the steadiest pacing while remaining fun throughout. The new mechanics and aesthetics are also great.

Bloodborne>Demon Souls>Dark Souls>Dark Souls 2

>>323428920
>Implying this isn't Nito's super convoluted ploy to make everything die

>>323426501
The rune that gives more blood echoes is called Moon, and states that the great ones that inhabit the nightmare are sympathetic in nature. In Japanese, blood echoes are called "Blood Dying wishes", which is reflected in the early hunter items, all of which reference honoring Dying wishes, as does the name of the ending in which you replace Gehrman. Putting it all together, that means that the hunts are a result of Gehrman becoming a surrogate for the MP, and it trying to grant his wishes by giving him endless hunts. It's the monkey's paw fairytale, just like Arianna's story is the "hidden heir lives in poverty" fairytale.

>>323428873
Andre McDuff is the firstborn, though.

>>323420562
>Dark Souls 2
>Final boss is a lady that were born from the fragment of Manus
>weak and fragile, she seeks power by manipulating those around her
>being the perpetrator to the war against the giants
>and throw the whole kingdom into chaos
>but the king realized his Queen true intention
>and with that, he locked himself into denying the queen access to said power
>the queen later manipulate the chosen one into killing vendrick and the throne guardian
>after her path is open, and her obstacle being slain, she try took the advantage from the exhausted chosen one
>and attempt to kill the chosen one

>Demons Souls
>lol boss is a former king that turned into monster

>Dark Souls
>lol boss is a former king that burned himself

>Bloodborne
>lol suddenly a monster that comes out of nowhere attack you

>>323426501
I think it tied together the theme of parenthood fairly well. The fight with the Moon Presence was it testing you to see if you would be a worthy heir. You already fail if you haven't used the three umbilical cords because you will be unable to truly undergo the transformation. If you have all of them and are strong enough you can slay it and inherit its power, becoming its surrogate child.

As for why you're being sent out, it's because Gehrman made a deal with it; it creates the Hunter's Dream to enable Hunters to grow strong enough to end the Hunt. Mensis triggered the Hunt via his ritual so as a new Hunter you were pulled into the Dream until you ended the Hunt. Then seeing that you were strong enough the Moon Presence decided to have you take on its mantle.

Hunters who break out of the dream and end a night's hunt don't get to go back; everyone from before Rom is also stuck in the Hunter's Nightmare but Gehrman who is in the Dream, but the Hunters you encounter are from previous Hunts (such as the cleansing of Old Yarhnam or the massacre of Cainhurst).

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>Implying the last "boss" of dark souls 3 wont just be a forced PVP invasion from another player that you have to wait for, due to budget cuts and time constraints.
>Implying shills like vaati still wont find a way to justify it

>>323428093
It's pretty fitting with the cosmic horror theme, though. You're on a relatively simple goal of curing yourself, but you end up getting dragged into something much, much bigger than you, and are manipulated by a higher, unknowable power.

>>323421620

oh, it's ass face again. one of the many terrible and cringey things about DaS 2.

I heard that DS3 has a frostbite status effect? Is that true? Could there be cyromancy instead of hexes?

>>323429057

Wait and see.

Solaire will likely be in the game, because:

>He is canonically the first Lord of Cinder, because while the chosen undead might not kindle the flame, Solaire will surely do

>He is the most well known Dark Souls character

>He is regarded as the son of Gwyn by the fans, and even though he's just part, Andre of Astora being the other part and that the idea was scrapped, FROM will pick it up

Just wait and see how the name of the final DaS 3 boss is "The Firstborn" and carries a spear much like the broken statue in the Sunlight Altar does

Solaire also has a motivation. He doesnt want the player to end the cycle, he wants to continue his father's work.

Even if Solaire isnt really Gwyn's son, he might believe he is.

>>323429396
There's a point where you can be TOO contrarian anon

>>323429596
>Old Monk Boss 2.0

You bet your ass I want that

>>323429396

could this be bait?

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all i want in dark souls 3 is a 1v1 boss like hunter vs maria

god i've honestly never been more hyped for a fight

>>323429774
oh god, me too.
Every time im the old monk, i 1-shot fags right before they touch the fog wall

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>you get to play through another Souls game blind

My first playthrough is always my favorite. I'm so excited.

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>>323429725
I am begging the gods and praying to the portrait of Miyazaki that this will happen
Just ANY frost spells
I've wanted any sort of frost spell in a Souls game ever since DeS, and the closest we've got was that Ice Rapier and spear in DaS2, which are just weapons

I want something, anything. Spells, weapons or whatever, just give me frost/ice themed stuff Fromsoft

>>323429789
>if it doesn't align with my belief like op is
>its a bait

>>323430031
so its not bait, and you really r dumb?

>>323429918

No more humanoid enemies

>>323429918
I prefered Gehrman's fight but Maria's was still top tier.

I think she would have been better had her fire phase lasted longer.

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DS3 final boss will be a living embodiment of the first flame. The twist ending when we kill it will be that killing it doesn't wind up stopping Armageddon, it triggers it, and everything is destroyed.

So it began the world, so it shall end it.

It fits the fire theme the entire game is building up, it fits the "everything must start and everything must end" theme the entire series has built up, and it segways into setting up a brand new universe since DS3 is confirmed last game in the souls series.

>>323429725
Yea one of the new bosses afflicts it.

Ice and freezing is heavily connected to the concept of death and it seems dark souls 3 everything is dying out so I can see cryomancy being a thing

>>323430072
I just did what OP did.
But for some reason I'm the one that is dumb and baiting here?

>>323429596
>final boss is a giant mirror and your reflection literally copies your exact move at the same speeds

How do you beat it?

>>323429984
I did spoil the (apparently) starting area through the stress test, but otherwise I am pretty hype about going in blind again

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>>323429725
It is true.
The ice knight from the network test area applies it when he hits you, he can breathe clouds of frost as well.

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>>323429725
>>323430298
Forgot to add that the status effect blocks your stamina recovery.

>>323421397
Living Failures had GOAT boss theme after the cosmic meteor strike thing

>>323430031

so you're just a stupid faggot. ok.

>>323430298
I have tested him, and as far as I could tell, it's a bit more interesting than just hits
Now, I might be completely wrong but here's what I gathered:

The Frostbite is applied on the frost effect that's around the weapon. The weapon leave a trail of frost, freezing the environment around it
You gain frostbite while in this trail, and also obviously while getting hit by said sword or the breath
I decided to test this since sometimes you would simply build up frostbite by just being near him, but not always, which kind made me see that trail of freeze, which is not quite snow, but closer to ice, covering the ground and armours around the area where his sword passes

If I'm right, then that's pretty amazing.
If not, then it's probably just a new bleed effect

>>323430196

Kill myself

>>323430554
...and OP is not?

>>323430653

Yui?

>>323430127
because each of the final bosses eachhave clearcut motivation to do what they did in their respective games.
In DaS2, you arent told jack shit about what the throne of want actually is or why its important, as a matter of fact, it goes against your characters ambition to even give a shit, because all you really want to do is clear the goddamn curse, something that is practically never addressed until the dlc was released.

DaS2 is a mess of a story with dropped ends everywhere.
DaS1 had at least enough infodump to let you know what was going on, even if there wasnt much character ambition, while DaS2 was purely character ambition with absolutely no context.

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>>323430873
>bashing Yui
He did everything he could to make the game less shit after FROM told Shibuya to fuck off, don't do that.

>>323430941
Everything you stated there is wrong.

The game exposed all the shit you wrote there as you go through the game bits by bits.
Why are you cursed, why are you driven to Drangleic and why you are the chosen monarch.
They also made it clear what Throne of Want is and what the King is using it for.

>>323429396
>>Dark Souls 1
>>Final boss is a god that was born from the first lord souls
>>noble and powerful, he seeks to better his realms by granting power to lesser rulers he approves of
>>being the leader of the war against the dragons
>>and unites the whole kingdom in victory
>>but the king saw the abyss and humanity leading to the Age of Dark
>>and with that, he burns himself in the first kiln to keep the age of prosperity alive
>>the serpents later manipulate the chosen undead into killing the lord soul bearers
>>after the kiln is opened again, in madness and an overwhelming desire to preserve what he still believes is the age of fire and splendour, he tries to kill the empowered chosen undead

>Dark Souls 2
>lol boss is tranny manus that wants a fancy chair

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>>323420562
If you just want another king as the final boss the dlc already did that.

>>323430873
>lol the final boss is a fragment of manus of the abyss and there are like millions more of them around the world
>but thats wrong, she isn't just a mere fragment, she have her own story and much more involved with the player than any other final bosses in the Souls series
>lol you're stupid

>>323431228

Oh c'mon, Yui is a fucking hack.

>>323431362

Piss off Vaati! Kindle my dick!

>game releases 3 weeks earlier in Japan
>will have to leave /v/ on march 30 because of inevitable spoilerfags

Fucking elevens.

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>>323430941
>clearcut motivation
>eldirtch horror

Bloodborne was worse than DaSII is in that regard if we're going to argue that.

Aside from the blood/the churches being explained due to them being self contained, you literally cannot explain anything further than that because they are lovecraftian horrors and therefore incapable of being elaborated upon by conventional means since they are SUPPOSED to be "beyond all comprehension".

We have no idea what the fuck the Moon Presence was even doing there, or any of the Great Ones. If we did, that would ruin the whole fucking point.

>>323431362
Not exactly. At the start of the game you're told that the reason you went to Drangleic is to look for answers regarding the curse. Shanalotte tells you to seek out greater souls and to seek the King so that you can become the next Monarch. You didn't have any intentions on becoming a monarch nor are you told what a monarch actually is but okay fine whatever its as good a lead as any. So you go through a bunch of bullshit that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with anything so that you can gather up the 3 Lord Souls (Seath is not a fucking Lord DaS2) which will open the way to Drangleic Castle, the last known location of the King. So the King isn't there but Nashandra is and she tells you to find the King again. So you go to the Crypt and you finally find the King...hollowed.

Well this totally invalidates your entire adventure. The only lead you had that could give you the answers your were looking for is hollowed out. So now with no lead whatsoever the only choice you have now is to follow this whole monarch bullshit and this tale about a missing king and his gold digging wife. You never actually get the answers you were looking for unless you bought all of the DLC or SotFS. Which in any other game would be total bullshit.

>>323429396
>>Bloodborne
>>Final boss is a twisted great one associated with the energy of the moon itself
>>ancient and eldritch, it seeks power by manipulating those around her
>>being the perpetrator of the blood moon hunts, where the line between man and beast is blurred
>>and throws the whole country into chaos
>>but Micolash/Choir/Brygenwerth realised the Presence true intention
>>and with that, they each separately seeked audience with other great ones/ascend through blood/ascend through eyes
>>the Presence later manipulate the hunter into killing scholars, kin of the cosmos and a great one
>>after the hunt is over, and the hunter Germahn is slain, it tries to find a surrogate
>>and attempt to kill/adopt the hunter

>>323431687
Anon please.

>You never actually get the answers you were looking for unless you bought all of the DLC or SotFS.

Wrong, you get your answer to why you are the chosen one when you get Ashen Mist Heart and travel back in time.

Of which
>you become the hero that stop the giant invasion
>inherit Giant Kinship that allow you to sit on the throne of want
>explain why you got cursed that eats your memories
>why are you drawn back to Drangelic for some reason
>why are you the chosen one

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>>323431620

>>323431503
He was behind the crown DLCs and the constant balance patches, how's he a hack? He's an overall decent guy turned into a scapegoat because he had to take over a project already failed by another director midway into the development and re-assemble the game from scratch using already created assets.

>>323431687
>>323431362
Also while we're on the subject let's talk about Nashandra and her motivations. Now with Gwyn the motivation is very basic but very clear "I want to continue my Age of Fire." So we know where Gwyn stands on things and why he set himself on fire. But with Nashandra everything is so confusing and contradictory.

So Shanalotte tells us that the reason Nashandra was fucking and pretending to love Vendrick was because she desired the First Flame. Which is probably the reason why she conned Vendrick into starting an unnecessary war with the Giants to go get the Kiln from them. But this is where things start to get loopy: why in the hell does Nashandra want the First Flame? Did she want to sit on the Throne? Because she's a walking talking lump of Humanity, she's gonna burn like a motherfucker and that's only going to bring back the Age of Fire. The exact opposite of what the Children of Dark want. So maybe she wanted to protect it from outsiders who might light it at which point I have to ask why the hell did she go through the trouble she did? No one besides Vendrick could get the Kiln from the Giants? And NO ONE could get past the door to get into the Throne of Want unless they had Vendrick's Ring. Which no one would've found if Nashandra weren't sending Undead to Vendrick's crypt. And then you had to kill the Throne Watcher and Defender because...why? Why would Nashandra make you go through all the trouble of stripping away the Throne's defense just so she could defend it herself.

The problem with Nashandra is that her motivations are unclear as fuck which makes her look like an insane bitch who doesn't think about anything.

>>323432130

I give you that the DLCs were slightly better than the main game. But Yui sat there and showed the faked footage of the game and lied with a fucking straight face.

>>323432030
No it doesn't explain that. The memories explain

1. What happened during the war with the Giants and why the war happened in the first place
2. Why the Kingdom has begun to be steeped in Dark
3. That Vendrick was not always a violent King but that he was influenced, by Nashandra

You the Curse is never addressed only that it showed up. The Curse isn't addressed by anyone other than Vendrick which is only possible when you buy at least one DLC pack. Which leads back to what I was saying that your original intent of going to Drangleic isn't addressed unless you spend extra money. But everything in the memories either addresses Drangleic's history or the Throne of Want.

>>323432412
That was his obligation as an employee.
Literally anyone would've done the same, even Miya "Muh Miya" Zaki.

>>323432375
She may have wanted the throne destroyed and needed someone to get the king's ring so the golems would activate letting her get to the comfy chair. That still doesn't explain why she would think she could take you on after you get the ring when you've been killing everything in your way including Velstadt and the mirror knight which she couldn't get past.

>>323432375
The fuck is all those question?

Nashandra motive is simple; inferiority complex.
She wants more power.

>>323432632
>No it doesn't explain that.

It fucking does.
Vendrick never sit on the throne because he didn't have the Kinship.
He only use the throne to gain a technique that allowed him to manipulate the souls and build his kingdom from it.

>But in the end, he never took the true throne

When you killed the Giant Lord you inherited the giant kinship, giving you the rights to sit on the throne of want making you the chosen one.

>>323432880
Kings ring does not give you access to the throne, Kinship does.
She NEED to kill the you because you have the Kinship, she have no choice on that matter.

>>323429717
>>323423189
Except they had the same design in DaS 1, just because they had 2 planks over their faces doesn't mean they didn't have anus faces.

>>323433069
Vendrick didn't even try because he was heartbroken over Nashandra. Because as you said he could manipulate and PEER INTO the essence of souls. And when he peered into Nashandra he saw that she was a child of Dark. Which is why when you look into his memories he's constantly lamenting on how everything is pointless because the Dark is going to take over anyway. And yet he can't stop calling Nashandra "dear," even though Nashandra herself has nothing but scorn for him.

>>323429163
Perfect. You are my fucking nigga.

Listen up everyone. This is one true rating of the souls games. Anything else is flawed, and having Dks2 at anything other than the absolute bottom is retarded.

>>323433667
>Vendrick didn't even try because he was heartbroken over Nashandra.

What?
>boohoo my wife is lying to me all along
>so I won't sit on the throne that were suppose to give me an immense power

Also, he might once TRIED to sit on the throne given that he carved a human sized chair on it and failed at that.
Only those who have the Kinship can sit on the throne and ignite the flame.

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>>323420562
But story doesn't matter in games anon

>>323423563
>>323424591
>There's a third option - a monumental secret, hidden in your very presence here.
>suppose you throw a coin enough times...
...suppose one day, it lands on its edge.

>>323430460

Is she Ciaran?

Is she the modern version of her?

Ciaran in Dark Souls looked very rushed

>>323423563
>only wish that Nashandra was a bit better as a boss and more "present" throughout the castle

Compared to other Souls boss game, her presence is much more real than any other bosses.
I think you can ask her guidance a couple of time throughout the game.

>>323434039
That's pretty much the point, Vendrick threw everything into Nashandra and Nashandra took it all and left him with nothing. Note that after the fucker was still strong as shit even as a hollow. You can't even hurt him unless you have a bunch of Giant Souls on you. But he just stopped caring, he brought Raime and Velstadt with him to rot away in a crypt lamenting on the futility of everything. Meanwhile Nashandra kept his throne nice and warm looking for the another absurdly powerful Undead to get through the door.

>>323432030
The fuck? Are you implying that the memories have you travelling back through time? Where is that even stated? The only thing that's implied is that you're accessing the memory of another being, not that you're acting in the past. That sounds like a total ass pull if you ask me.

>>323420562
i mean if you chose the first option in bloodborne the final boss was the nurse
which honestly was more fun of a fight than gehrman or moon presence, dodging the clone was more entertaining than dodging gunshots

>>323434551
So you're acting in the memory of another being and somehow an NPC you interact with is affected in the present? Not to mention you needing to slay the Giant Lord to progress. If you were merely accessing a memory that wouldn't work, that's time travel

>>323434551
Not that guy but pretty sure the Vaati crowd popularized that theory because who the fuck knows why
>you are actually going back in time during the intro
>the firekeeper in the intro is actually the emerald herald and is actually a child that is only mentioned in the credits
>memories are going back in time because the last giant attacks you when you enter his boss room
People just can't handle more "nonsensical" explanations like pocket dimensions inside someones brain (ironically enough nobody claims that Micolash is time travel in BB) so they make up all sorts of retarded shit
Oh and then they can pretend that DS2 has completely pants on head retarded grandfather paradox time travel same as DS1

>>323434854

Well Micolash is pretty clearly another dimension or nightmare, isnt it?

It could happen in the past but it's all still a dream with no effect on reality or other realities.

I mean you see his corpse before you enter it.

>>323434854
It's simple, if you were only accessing a giant's memory, you wouldn't be able to inherit the kinship. You would witness their memory and you might have a case for picking things up here and there for a pocket dimension, but actually killing the Lord and inheriting it is something completely different. It's the very same kinship that Vendrick claimed to access the throne

>>323435009
Literally everything you just said applies to the giants in DS2

>>323434551
>>323434742
>The only thing that's implied is that you're accessing the memory of another being,

Its more like you relive the memories of your battle with the giants.
Which is why the last giant is fucking mad at you when he saw you.

>>323434854
I disagree with Vaati.
You simply relive your memories of the battles.

>hero that hailed from (depend of the classes you choose)
>fought the giants and beat the giant lord
>get cursed
>wander around
>drawn to drangleic
>start of DaS2

The opening movie is more like symbolism than anything else.

>>323420562
Good on them, because they can't going with the
>Former X who is now weak as shit and sad
Team forever.

>>323435067
Refer to the micolash shit in BB, the series in general is not meant to be taken too literally, how do you make weapons with someone soul anyway, gwyondolin has infinite amounts of souls so he should have burned himself instead of gwyn etc.

>>323421771
First hunter was gehrman anon. First church hunter was ludwig. holy shit theres like the same loading screen you have probably seen 50+ times saying this

>>323435067
>It's the very same kinship that Vendrick claimed to access the throne

Vendrick only managed to access the throne, but he couldn't sit and ignite the flame because he never got kinship in the first place.
Nashandra once told you that he was 'not the true king' or something.

>>323435261
The not a true king is in reference to him either refusing to sit there or a reference to him not getting the 3 crowns.
If you want to think that he tried but failed then go ahead but there is nothing really in canon that says this, it's stated the he chose not to, rather than he was unable to.

>>323434742
Why do you people have no qualms with phantoms from OTHER DIMENSIONS coming to help you, but taking items out of a dream/memory is suddenly some insane impossibility?

Nobody recognizes you from the past, unlike dark souls and bloodborne where people in the current time recognize your changes and you, here you're just getting some souls from a memory. It's not the same thing and the notion that you're travelling back in time is completely unfounded.

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2 couldn't be that bad.
Surely it was all just an over exaggeration
>Boss is winding up, better roll behind him real quick
>Spins 180 degrees in an instant and slam jams me with an invisible box extending a few feet from his weapon

>>323435194
>Gwyndolin should have burned himself
He didn't want to, he wanted to live on that's why he was all for you burning yourself.

>>323435437
Taking items is one thing, killing the lord and inheriting something required for the throne, with no other way to acquire it is time travel.
>Nobody recognizes you from the past
http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Benhart+of+Jugo
Man, I'm glad this guy exists. Imagine if I forgot his quest chain takes him from the present

>>323420562
>Going by this pattern
What fucking patter, Bloodborne was released last
Fucking shit thread OP

>>323435136
Souls games have never had a requirement for bosses to get pissed at you, and there's plenty of bosses in the game who should have no real qualms with you but murder you anyway for the sake of it. Also, if you killed the giant Lord in the past then why would you need to travel back in time to do so again? Time travel just adds more complications to an already contrived and nonsensical character motivation.

>>323435394
>Perhaps this King, who once ruled the world
of men, was a lacking vessel for the true throne.

He never got the Kinship anon.

>>323435679
>He didn't want to, he wanted to live on that's why he was all for you burning yourself.
You think Gwyn would have taken that shit from his bitch ass son who he literally forced into cosplaying as a girl because he wanted cute daughter?

Shits not even an issue, but a lot of the world flat out doesn't make sense if you try to take everything too literally, a lot of things exist purely for thesake of atmosphere and mood.

>>323435782
Did you read what I just posted?
I said relive the memories, not traveling back in time.

The Kinship is with you all along, you just remembered that you got it.

>>323432130
>>323432828

This. It needs to be repeated more and I do try to point it out whenever I can, the guy doesnt deserve the hate he gets and Im glad hes working on DS3 in some capacity.

>>323435882
>take shit

It probably didn't work out that way. Kaathe told us that before Gwyn set himself on fire that he gave his children and clan shards of his own soul and standing orders to shepherd the humans to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord. Instead they all jumped ship and abandoned Anor Londo with Gwyndolin being the only one who stayed. It wasn't so much Gwyndolin as shit as all of the gods a shit who ignored Gwyn the moment he sacrificed himself.

>>323436450
Still what I'm saying is that gwyondlil literally has infinite souls, he would be a far better person to light on fire than Gwyn and clearly Gwyn didn't give a shit about what gwyndolin wanted and gwyndolin actually cared about Gwyn.

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>>323426501
>>323426597

1 - That is not established in the game anywhere. It's sound speculation, but still speculation at best.
2 - The Great Ones are sympathetic in nature, which contradicts this murderous exception and begs for a VERY convincing explanation as to why is the MP so different.
3 - Even if this were to be true, we still don't know why would it want that or what could it possibly hope to achieve by making you kill everything, because the presence of the other great ones don't do anything to it. They are not harmful in nature.
4 - The fact it snatches you when you kill Gehrman and hasn't consumed the umbilical cords make absolutely no reason whatsoever in this context because you supposedly suceeded Gehrman in his endeavor. So if the MP wanted hunters so it could manipulate them into killing every Great One, then why does it still seems to be doing exactly what it was doing before now that the Great Ones are all dead except it?
5 - Killing all the Great Ones isn't required to finish the game. Ebrietas and Amygdala are optional.

This game just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The best explanation you could come up with is that the MP wanted echoes, but we fall back to argument 3 and we're left with an empty explanation as to why a member of a race that is sympathetic would manipulate beings into fighting for it so it could farm echoes. It's not a satisfactory explanation in any way or form.

I like Bloodborne's lore but the MP P feels like an afterthought. It shows up for merely seconds and is extremely vital for the whole endeavor to make sense.

In DeS, DaS and DaS II you got pretty much everything you needed to know right off the get go with a cinematic. The speculations were about side content, not the main one. In Bloodborne, your very nature is foggy because your clothes imply your arrival on Yharnam was supposed to be a secret and that you're a noble, which clashes with your character creation since you can pick up another one for him.

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>>323423189

Dark Souls 3 is going to be fucking insane I can feel it

>>323437024
Amygdala isn't actually killed off entirely, and ebrietas isn't a great one, just kin

>>323428653
>This is what I do, friend!

Whose controlling the hunters dream?
Surely someone would have to be a mummified cagehead like Micolash

>>323437796
Gehrman's the host, MP is the source.

>>323437853

So when you kill Gehrman and MP then surely the dream should end

>>323437518
>Amygdala isn't actually killed off entirely

Which only reinforces my point.

>>323438309
There's another theory, that the host is neither gehrman nor moon presence, but the doll, who is actually paleblood.

>>323437853
>host
>again with this shit

It was a mistranslation. Dreams and Nightmares do NOT need people hosting. Micolash is not called a "host" in the japanese version.

lrn2lovecraft m8

>>323438451
I know, I'm not arguing with you senpai

>>323438558

Then whats the point in the cageheads

>>323437024
See, I don't think Moon Presence was evil at all. It just wanted a child, like all the Great Ones. For the longest time, Gherman was that surrogate, but he wanted out. He was sick of the dream. I think it was actually Gherman who orchestrated the hunt in some attempt to stir things up. Either to find a replacement so that he could get out, or to force Moon Presence to return to the dream so that the powerful hunter might be able to kill it.

When it grabs you pre-fight, it's nothing malicious. Moon Presence is trying to embrace you as its child. It only fights you out of rage if you refuse to accept after killing its previous child, Gherman.

>>323438764
>The cage is a device that restrains the will of the self, allowing one to see the profane world for what it is.
>It also serves as an antenna that facilitates contact with the Great Ones of the dream.

A glorified antenna.

>>323438558
the games are written in English first

>>323438868

If Gehrman wanted out why would he free the hunter from the dream

>>323438764
It's also implied, considering multiple people, yourself included, make contact with great ones without the cage heads, that they're completely useless and just dumb speculation of the mensis lunatics.

>>323420562

>DS2 is the only thing that does something different

Why is this a bad thing?

>>323438943
>source: my gaping anus

>>323438968
Gehrman is a truly kind person, and he didn't want to grant another person the fate he suffers from. He's merciful and grants people freedom from the hunter's dream. He would rather fight you than let you go through his horrible fate

>>323438989

I didn't understand the great ones becoming visible, was the red moon the signal of the start of a larger dream?

>>323438968
He had a change of heart at the end and you can see it.
>I will do you a mercy
As much as he wants it to end, he refused to leave you there for it to continue. His plan was to free you and begin the hunt again.

>>323439142

Thats some reaching, Gehrman could've just worked with the hunter if he wanted out of it

>>323439203
It's hinted that Rom hides the true nature of the dream through some ritual. When she is killed, Queen Yahrnam and the blood moon are apparent.

>>323439435
I'm the first guy you responded to, but it's not a stretch. They've left the plot intentionally vague, so we have to connect dots, but this is the obvious conclusion.

Why is it assumed that MP is not just as sympathetic as the others? It's an eldritch abomination, its idea of kindness isn't exactly going to line with ours. Also, it's very unlikely that they understand a human's line of thought. An eternity stuck in the dream, immortal, and free of all suffering would sounds completely kind to me. Not their fault that even the meekest of humans eventually get bored, and will value freedom more than safety.

>>323440402
Exactly. We can assume that the Great Ones are on a completely different level of thought from what Willem suggested. I don't think there was anything malicious about Moon Presence. If you look closely, you can see that the curse and all the other problems in Yahrnam were caused by humans, who were mostly trying to use/abuse the Great One's blood.

>>323430579
Deep.

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>>323441136

No you faggot that's literally how you beat it.

>>323433773

(You)

>>323425442
>DS3 goes full pander mode and the final boss is Solaire

>>323420562
Why are you considering Gehrman for BB but not Aldia for DaS2?

Kill yourself retard.

>>323439753
>Giant spider
>On a giant web
>Dream catcher are spider webs
It's a human that was becoming a great one or at least a high level kin that was catching the nightmares

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>mfw beat Micolash
>Arianna is missing
>Follow blood trail
>There's a fucking newborn slug looking at her, making baby slug noises
>Arianna breaks down
What the fuck? Should I just end her misery?

>>323420562
>Demon's Souls
>Final boss is a blob, probably can't even hurt you

>Dark Souls
>Final boss is a hollow, easy as fuck just parry him

>Bloodborne
>lol final boss is an alien

>Dark Souls 2
>Final boss is the descendant of a long forgotten beast, and plans to bring about the end of the continuous cycles of the age of fire

>>323426118
>OIK
>BIK
>Vendrick
3 anon

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>>323437024
This. Shit's fucked, yo.

I could make sense of the first 3 games, even DaS2' fucked up time-space can make sense if you take the memory thing into context. But in BB I don't really understand much of what's happening.

You're a hunter, and you hunt during the night of the hunt. Other than being a new hunter according that initial cutscene where you get blood ministration, I don't really know what's up with the character or why you do the shit you do other than hunt because that's what hunters do.

>>323443803

Rat king

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>>323424006
Do fanboys really think with such indignation?

>>323443072
thats cute as fuck

so damn cute I might actually leave my bed after sitting here for 14 hours

>>323424006

PETITION RACE ON SUICIDE WATCH!!!

>>323420562
What sword is DaS2 poster boy supposed to be using anyway? Doesn't seem like any sword in the game has its size+hilt.

>>323427949
the name is "Gwyn", retard.

>>323429984
I can't wait to spend 100 hours on my first playthrough in my futile attempt to minimize shit I miss, finish the game, and realize I still missed areas and NPCs.

>>323435557
>Spins 180 degrees

Half the bosses in Bloodborne do that too, though. Have you ever considered dodging correctly?

>>323431620
The basic plot of BB is that the Mensis guys are trying to bring about the birth of Oeden's child Mergo and the Moon Presence sends you to abort it as it seems to do for all great one's children (Great one children are always stillborn , your "mission" in the dream is to kill Mergo and there have been other dreaming hunters in the past, put two and two together.)

So we don't know why MP is a serial abortionist, but it's somewhat clear that's what it wants and why you're sent out to do it.

>>323435557
You're dodging too early anon

>>323425870
>DaS1
>Four Kings
Well, I mean, that's four kings in one fight

>>323420562
Gerhman is not the final boss of the story OR the entire game. That's Moon Presence and Queen Yarhnam.
Also:
>B-Team
LMAO

>>323425870
you dont fight the sunken king