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Was Lavos a tragic villain?
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Was Lavos a tragic villain?
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He was a spaceman riding in a space tick
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I never played it but thats a pretty stupid fucking design.
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>>323399664
no
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>>323399664
how would you even think of that
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>>323399846
>I don't know what I'm talking about but here's my halfassed opinion anyway
ok
>>
It was an animal
feeling sad for Lavos is like feeling sad for a tick or tapeworm
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Nah.

I just think he was a mindless parasite, no better than a flea or a tick.
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la means fire, vos means big.
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>>323399664
>it was just trying to survive just like any other animal
It's about as tragic as a wildlife documentary showing a cheetah killing a gazelle.
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>>323399929
>feeling sad for Lavos is like feeling sad for a tick or tapeworm
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>>323399664
If it was doing what it did for some greater good, perhaps, but Lavos amounted to little more than a virus needing to spread to other planets in order to survive.
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>Seriously pondering the intellectual value of an alien plant piloting a crab.
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The real tragic villain was <spoiler>Lynx</spoiler>
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>menacing giant alien crab like meteor
>piloted by something weird
CT was pretty cool game.
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>>323399846
You're a stupid fucking design
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I love the sheer level of disgust and hatred the characters give off when they finally see Lavos' core.
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>>323399913
You can comment on a design even if you didnt play the game.
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>>323400539
Good job, Anon.
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>>323400539
>Lynx
>not Schala
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>>323400676
>spoiler<thanks>/spoiler<
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Why does Lavos' second form look like Cell and his final form look like Frieza?
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>>323400829
Why does Lucca look like Bulma?
Why does Marle look like Bulma?
Why does Crono look like Vegeta?
Why does Magus look like Vegeta?
Why does the cat look like Vegeta?
>>
>>323400539
I'm going to take pity on you and give you a tip.

Use brackets instead of chevrons.

, not <spoiler>
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>>323399846

Well you see, Lavos is actually a bio ship. The creature inside Lavos is the pilot tasked with a mission of creating more alien ships.
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>>323400829
Akira Toriyama did the art for this game
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>>323399995
I agree with you. Lavos is just a life form.
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>>323400829
>final form look like Frieza?
Lavos is actually the one on the far right
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>>323401005
>forgetting about Ayla and Launch.
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>>323401005
toriyama's art is fukkin awesome, i don't even care about the sameface.
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>>323401005
>Why does Magus look like Vegeta?
you mean piccolo
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So was the entire thing Lavos, or was the creature inside Lavos, or just the small bit which is the only thing that can get damaged in the final fight?
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>>323401098
I just noticed the sun has a face
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>Magus was going to appear in Chrono Cross
>it was scrapped
Yeah, I'm still mad. I mean it could mean that Frog killing him in the Dark Ages is canon but the dialogue for fighting him is flat out not in Frog's character
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>>323399664
Why do people think lavos was the main villain in CT? Lavos was just Queen Zeal's pawn.
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>>323401351
The entire thing is Lavos. That's why Lavos spawn look like they do.
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>>323401351
It was all Lavos
You just went inside to fight inside parts.
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>>323401545
Magus is Gil/Guile.
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lavos was just some asshole
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>>323401194

>Put your brain in a floating organ away from your main body
>Somehow your body and the other floating organ aren't the "real you"
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>>323401668
That was the original idea but it never made it in game
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Lavos is great, manages to have a commanding presence in the plot and to be memorable as hell despite having no personality to speak of and never speaking a single line.

>>323401562
>Lavos crashed into the planet and started eating it from the inside out because Queen Zeal told it to.

Nope. Zeal was like one of those fishes you see swinning in the underside of a shark, eating whatever scraps he can get. She was siphoning power off Lavos to keep the Black Omen alive, but that was it.
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>>323401562
>Lavos was just Queen Zeal's pawn.
Queen Zeal was just a zealot cultist who suckled at the teat of Lavos.
He didn't even know what the fuck she was.
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>>323401623
>>323401571

Why would you have an armed humanoid inside yourself as an organ?
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>>323401743
In the DS remake there was a secret final boss/ending that heavily implied that this was canon anyway.
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>>323399664
Lavos is intelligent, I don't care what people say, he directly altered the evolutionary path of humanity.
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>>323401826
Because you absorbed evolutionary data/DNA from the planet whose life you were siphoning and that influenced your internal form.
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>>323401826
>Why would you have an armed humanoid inside yourself as an organ?
I'm not a giant alien parasite with a 65 million year life cycle
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>>323401882
>Lavos is intelligent, I don't care what people say, he directly altered the evolutionary path of humanity.

Not intentionally.
Bees don't intentionally pollinate flowers. It's symbiosis
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>>323401743
Guile is a amnesic Magus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVeXLEvXydQ
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So did Azala really summon Lavos or was he already bound for Earth and would've invaded without the reptites?
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>>323400646
Can you blame them? All of the terrible shit they saw throughout history and the future was caused by Lavo's pulling the strings and manipulating people, tearing lives apart. It's true that they may not even have been born and humanity could have developed along a drastically different path, had it not been for Lavos, but considering the amount of suffering Lavos caused, it stands to reason the world would have been a better place without its manipulation.

What has me curious is was Lavos the only one of its species or was it the spawn of another that had completed its cycle? Because of how it seemed to evolve itself, it seems more like the former since its core only contained the DNA of every living creature on that planet. You'd think if it was a spawn, it would have taken DNA from other worlds with it as you'd think it would want to include previous DNA in its spawn to continue to evolve.

Not to mention, I wonder what its endgame even was. Where would this evolution stop and what would it even do with it besides continue to consume worlds? Considering how evolved the core was, it must have developed SOME sort of self awareness and intelligence.
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>>323402132
Lavos was already inbound. Azala's curse is more of a statement of "come, we're already done for, destroy us, but also take these damned apes with you".
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>>323402136
>I wonder what its endgame even was
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>>323402132
What Azala said wasn't a summoning, but basically just "hurry the fuck up"
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>>323401917

So you're saying Lavos could leave it's dick body as a perfect cell if it wanted too?
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>>323402448
I haven't played Cross or done the extra content on the DS version yet, but it's hard to wrap my head around how that happens, you kill Lavos at the end of Trigger right? How come he still exists in Cross?
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>>323402136

It was a spawn from another lavos in another world. As you can see from the end game lavos after he destroys humanity throws a spawn back into space.
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>>323402492
It's funny because it does literally nothing except for events that happen in Chrono Cross.
Black Omen in Chrono Trigger actually does a fine job of weakening Lavos for you. Good job Queen
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>>323402592
It fuses with Schala and becomes a super time god demon that transcends dimensions
It's super fucking retarded
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>>323402757
That doesn't make any god damn sense anon
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>>323402698
What are you talking about?
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>>323402571
You could speculate that's something Lavos could do. But it'd be tearing itself away from its body. Even if it created a new body for itself inside the shell - one that was capable of leaving the shell and causing havoc or whatever - Lavos has no reason to do that. It'd be content to just chill beneath the earth until it's time to destroy everything and launch more spawns outward.

Look at it this way: If you could tear your nervous system out of your body and place it in a fetus that was being created inside you and then transfer your consciousness to that fetus, would you? The body you already have already does everything you need it to, and making another one would be a huge waste of biological resources for little if any net gain.
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>>323402448
This is more of an accident than its actual goal though

>>323402592
>you kill Lavos
>he's an entity of such overwhelming power, that by destroying it, instead of killing it outright, by some manner of space-time shenanigans he ends as a shade or copy at the End of Time
>at some point he finds Schala, who was also thrust into the End of Time after the events of the Ocean Palace, also fueled by Lavos' overwhelming power causing all maner of space-time shenanigans
>Lavos somehow fuses with her and attains the ability to devour timelines through space-time shenanigans.
>you then have to use space-time shenanigans to reverse the space-time shenanigans that fused Lavos and Schala in the first place
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>>323402830

And that's why people like to think they are two depersonalize games
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>>323402830
Welcome to Chrono Cross
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>>323402592
When you kill him, you've also killed the timeline where he takes over the world, thus making it a dead timeline. He's sent to the Darkness Beyond Time, which is where dead timelines rest. When Schala was sent away in the Ocean Palace, she was also sent there. Lavos fuses with her and becomes the Dream Devour, who later evolves into the Time Devour.

Chrono Cross is super complex, there's a bunch of crap like this.
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>>323402448
Yeah but wasn't that more of an accident than anything? I mean, maybe it was manipulating everybody on a deeper level but it seemed more like that was happenstance. Like, after they killed it, it managed to crawl back through all of the rifts in time, found Schala and said "hey, I can work with this".

>>323402608
Yeah but that's us seeing it throw its ow spawn out. Maybe it was the first in the line, wandering space until it found a good planet to crash into.
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>>323402592

That's how come you have to play Trigger and Cross to figure out what happens.

You don't need to play the DS version of Trigger to figure out why this has happened.
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>>323403035
Okay, does the Dream Devourer have something to do with Radical Dreamers? Which I also haven't looked into.
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>>323403204

Chrono Cross is an extension of the Radical Dreamers DLC.
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>>323403204
The plot points of Radical Dreamers have been reworked into part of the early plot of Chrono Cross. As in, there's a mansion that you infiltrate that has a mysterious artifact of some power inside. I don't know how that game ends though, so I couldn't say more.
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>>323402448

It's end game has no end game. Lavos become a mindless God just bent in destroying the current timelines until there is nothing else to destroy.

Think of him as a black hole about to go supernova is the closest you'll come to.
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>>323402938
Not quite!

FUCK. I CAN'T FIND MY IMAGE OF THE CHRONO CROSS PLOT.
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Lavos is basically just a giant space tick.
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>>323403361

The frozen flame which lynx has and it stops when the party encounters lynx and the frozen flame similar to the first part where you play the game with random party members in chronopolois.
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>>323403204
Nope, not at all.

Radical Dreamers is about the characters Serge, Kid, and Magil (Magus in disguise) searching the Viper Mansion for the Frozen Flame. It's an alternate universe type thing, so don't worry about it.
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>>323403693
Right, I swear alternate universe plots get on my nerves. I can handle time travel bullshit just fine but once you throw in a bunch of other timeline bullshit and don't keep them self contained my mind starts to break down.
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It really bothers me that in the end, it was "revealed" that Marle is a direct descendant of Ayla. No shit?
Okay, Earth didn't have humans 65 million years ago, but if it did, then literally every human would be a direct ancestor of literally every human that exists today. I mean, even in the real world, every human came from the same place.
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>>323404247
The game was made for kids who hadn't took biology yet
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>>323403829
I completely agree, Chrono Cross makes things unnecessarily complex. It's entire plot is about alternate universes, and how messing with them undid the work in Chrono Trigger. The whole point of the game is to unfuck things up, it's irritating. I loved how Chrono Trigger kept time travel simple.
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>>323404247
The surprise was that it was Ayla an Kino who established the Royal Family. I thought that was a nice twist.
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What is Lavos origins and why is a blank slate if it houses DNA of planets it siphons? If none can explain, I will start a new theory that Lavos was created when Chrono went back in time the FIRST time and started to create new timelines and paradoxes.
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Why was a fisherman so strong?
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>>323404669
The story of Chrono Trigger wasn't thought out very well. It's one of those "It's pretty good until you really think about it" stories.
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tfw Chrono Break will never happen
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>>323404706
Screw everything about you Miguel.
Just screw literally everything about you, including your glasses and stupid hat.
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>>323404506
>The Guardian royal family goes back approximately 1300000 generations
Goddamn that is some lasting power
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>>323404367
Exactly, I mean, alt. universe crossovers are and always will be a cool ass concept and I'm sure they can and have been done well, but you've already got time travel on top of that so you're making something a tiny bit complex unravel even more. I don't think they even mention alt. universes in Trigger.
Plus apparently everyone you played as in Trigger died because of Dalton? I don't believe it, he was a bumbling idiot IIRC and the idea of him succesfully invading Porre doesn't gel well with me.
>>323404823
From what I've learned from this thread I'm happy about that. The series is apparently a clusterfuck.
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>>323404794
Yea, the whole game was a dream project. The collaboration of some cool dudes who wanted to make a cool JRPG.
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>>323404823
>>323404948
Yeah, it's for the best of the series to just let it end.
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>people think cross is canon
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>>323404948
>everyone you played as in Trigger died because of Dalton

Oh fuck, I forgot about that. Him and the whole Porre thing really pissed me off. Here's what happened:

>Dalton travels back in time, starts an empire in Porre
>Invades Guardia, burns down everything, kills everyone
>Crono and Marle are the new King and Queen, and are either killed by Dalton or escape

Lucca's house is a decent distance from Guardia, so she wasn't killed. Her house is now an orphanage, and then was burned down by the antagonist, Lynx. She was then killed along with it.

The other characters live.
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>>323405418
>The other characters live.
Well, except for Frog and Ayla, who are long dead.
And Robo, whom you kill during the events of Cross.
And Magus, who is too busy cosplaying as a male stripper with a magician theme.
>>
have we really gone full circle where its "cool" to hate cross again despite it being a good game that /v/ loved for years?
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>>323405616
>Robo, whom you kill during the events of Cross.
What the fuck, could you explain for me why? Also does Magus ever regain his memories?
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>>323405616
You kill Prometheus Circuit? Isn't that what Robo was modified into?
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>>323405694
It's ok to like a game but still think its plot is absolute bullshit
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>>323405702
>>323405757
Why dont you just play the game
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>>323405702
Actually, minor correction, you don't kill him directly but he still dies. At some point Robo's circuits are integrated into the systems that govern Chronopolis as the Prometheus Circuit that controls direct access to the Frozen Flame, what you kill are the Iachesis, Atropos and Clotho circuits that control access to the facility proper. Robo gets destroyed by FATE at some point after Serge comes in contact with the Flame and unwittingly locks FATE out of access for it.
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>>323405980
The plot sounds dumb as fuck and I don't think I'd enjoy it, it's better to get the cliff notes version
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>>323405980
Getting to it, finishing FF7 first.

>>323405702
Nope, he's forever doomed to be a male stripper.
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>>323399664
>parasite

>ruins everything

Was Lavos the first SJW ever?
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>>323407540
Giygas.
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>>323408839

Giygas is a woman.
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>>323405418
No Lucca was killed in Xenogears when Fei destroyed his village
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>>323401221
this
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>>323411737
Flea is meh.
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>>323401826
In case a bunch of comparatively tiny fuckers try to kill you from inside?
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>>323404823
why would it? why did CC even happen?

this isn't final fantasy.
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>>323404367
>and how messing with them undid the work in Chrono Trigger

They exist because of the things you did in trigger.

Trigger is a game about time travel without consequences. Except that's not how time works. Cross is entirely about the consequences of time traveling to change the world.
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>>323410872
why did i scroll down
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>>323405694
/v/ is mainstream, so mainstream tastes have arrived.

>>323406107
You're reading quick sayings of things that happen without anyone telling you the resolutions to them and jumping to conclusions. You're retarded.
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>>323400657
I didn't know low intelligence had an effect on bachelor/lady killer dialogue choices, wow.
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>>323414930
>stopping lavos
>saving Lucca's mom
>trees
Consequences don't have to be negative, anon.
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>>323415323
You changed far too much for there to be no lasting effects besides sidequest things.

The most important one, and why cross even exists is that you made a new future for Balthazar to be sent to.
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