Video games are not art. Sorry

agreed

>>323235334
Fuck off, Ebert, you're fucking dead.

>>323235334
Agreed.
Video games only need to be video games.

Neither is music

true

No. You're objectively wrong. Fuck you.

I really don't give a shit at this point I just want some fun video games

I agree just to troll hipsters ;)

>>323235685
You can stop being alive now

Art is too broad of a term.

sm︂︂h t︂︂bh f︂︂am

I actually agree. Video games are just video games. Stop calling everything "art" you fucking hipsters.

>>323235334
Obviously, they are an entertainment medium.

>>323235334
>hey here's my opinion

ok

any human creation or activity that has an aesthetic appeal to anyone is art

>>323235334
Video games are not games. Sorry

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>>323235334
Yeah, they're not. No need to apologize.
Doesn't mean a person can't have insightful or thought provoking moments when playing them, even ones -ESPECIALLY ONES- that aren't intentionally crafted to deliver some kind of message.

>>323235334
Quite the argument you got there faggot.

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>visual art is art
>music is art
>somehow the combination of these things is not art
ok budy

is this the thread where people argue over definitions and uses like the whole stupid thing with /tv/ and the words cinema, film, movie, flick, etc?

Why would people want to consider games art? Art is for gay people and the cheeky I thought?

>>323237406
Music and visual art is a much more pure expression of human creativity than a video game is

>>323237638
it's not about "wanting" anything. video games are factually art. you can't pretend they aren't just because your feels tell you so

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>>323237535
>/tv/ and the words cinema, film, movie, flick
They do that? For real?

>>323235334
Bodar who do you find most handsome?

>>323237406
don't forget that writing is art, most of it is shitty art but art nonetheless.

>>323237794
>this entire post
>making visual and audio art interactive suddenly makes it not art
How ignorant can you be

>>323236113
>I'm in a band

Art is anything man made. You can't fite me because that's the fucking definition.

>>323235334
Who gives a fuck.

Artfags are the most delusional autists on the planet anyway. modern art only solidifies my opinion of that.

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Great thread! 5 stars

>>323235334
Who are you to judge such a thing. Are you the inventor of video games?

Of course not.
They're games.

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>>323235334
>This is literally "art" that sold for ~ $41 Million
Yeah I think I'll just keep calling videogames art because what-ever-the-fuck you look at is probably similar to pic related.

>>323238621
How does them being games make them not art?

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>>323235334
Why would anyone care if games are art or not? They're made to have fun with, not to boost social status or some bullshit.

>>323238772
>not to boost social status or some bullshit.
Have you seen the modern include scene?

>>323238913
>>323238772
Modern indie scene*
Thanks phone

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>There are people who think pressing Prt Scr while playing a video game is considered photography, art, and requires talent/skill to do
>People actually think photography in general requires talent

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OP is absolutely right... Ebert was right...damn

>>323237406
Music is art, drawings are art, but video games are not music + drawings.
They CONTAIN music and art, and yes, a videogame soundtrack is art, but the videogame itself is not art. It doesn't become art simply because it has artistic elements. The "video game" is the combination of the aesthetics... and of the actual game, you know, the noun in "video game" is "game" and not "video", video is an adjective.
And games are not art, they're games.

If you want, you can have a pack of cards, the drawing of the Queen can be the most beautiful piece of woman you've ever seen, but a game of poker doesn't become art nonetheless.

A game is a game, it's a set of rules and you must produce a result within this set of rules for the sake of entertainment, it has nothing to do with art, it's skill and work, not contemplation and reflexion.

>>323238663
I really hoped you were just shit-posting about the "around 41 million dollars" thing. My fucking head hurts now.

>http://twentytwowords.com/canvas-painted-blue-with-a-white-line-sells-for-nearly-44-million-4-pictures/

>>323235334
Yeh, same kinda niggas who think video games are a sport

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>>323238663
And it was 57.2 million. Anything is art. Even the stupidest shit you can think of, is art.

>>323238663
The fine art world isn't actually based in skill or talent, it's based only in how much money people will pay for shit. If it was, there are MANY other Renaissance artists that should have been more famous than the ones we know.

>>323238913
>>323239052
Those retards will just get tired of video games in a couple years and move on to something else.

>>323239353
>The fine art world isn't actually based in skill or talent, it's based only in how much money people will pay for shit. If it was, there are MANY other Renaissance artists that should have been more famous than the ones we know.

Elaborate. Paintings back then we're made for the eye. Now they are based on how old the work is and who made it.

>>323235391
Except, no.

>does it produce art or creativity
>does it come from producing art or from creativity

>>323239230
>And games are not art,
How aren't they art?
What makes them not art?
What if a games ruleset was made to induce contemplation and reflexion?

>>323235334
>Video games are not art.

So?

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>>323239153
>there are people who think painting and music take skill to make

So you slap some paint or bang some keys together, it's not hard.

>>323239230
This is the most well thought out post on this entire board.

I used to consider games to be art, then I stopped wanting that to be after I saw art was. Nothing more than a post-modernist scam for kikes to embezzle and launder money, and to also pervert society.

The hooknoses can have their worthless art, and cozy up with the free-bleeding, shitting on canvas feminists.

Not much of a coincidence that faggy SJW culture became pervasive in video game culture after people started asking if games were art. Don't summon the demon.

I'll play my games thanks.

>>323239954
Some low effort bait here

>>323239273
It's a scam, and deliberately insults art. Leftist kikes want to destroy the concept of beauty or realist art with their post-modernist perverse schizophrenia.

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Name ONE video game that is even remotely close to "art"

I'm waiting, someone try and prove me wrong

>>323240276
Undertale.

Games are too clouded by corporate greed and intervention to be a form of sincere art. The number of people who work on a game solely for the sake of profit dilute the aesthetic value.

If hitler had won the war, Modernism wouldn't have been a thing and this thread would never be made

Think about that for a sec

>>323240276
I don't particularly care if games are art or not but I'd say Tetris.

>>323239954
Except painting actually requires knowledge to do. Taking pictures requires a finger to press a button. Literally any hipster can just say "That looks nice I guess" and take a picture of a dog turd with the contrast turned up and people think its art.
Art and music requires a lifetime of study and practice to be good at, whereas all you need to be a photographer is enough money from mommy and daddy to buy you that high tech cam equipment so you can go around taking the millionth picture of god rays and clouds.

>>323239323
>mfw e-sports are actually becoming a thing in America

>>323240320
A video game for furries and degenerates? Really?

>>323240360
That can't be the only reason, if it is then Cave Story is art.

>>323240443
>music requires a lifetime of study and practice to be good at

Son, please tell me you're joking.

>>323238663

It still baffles my mind that people like you still exist out there. Art exhibitions are purely for laundering money and have been for a century, you think anyone who was smart enough to make that amount of money would be that retarded?

>>323240686
Cave Story is art.

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There's absolutely no reason gamers wouldn't want their medium to be considered art.

By doing so you protect your video games for being merely a product, and you have a powerful argument against censorship.


By saying video games aren't art, you defend trash like Battlefront to exist, you defend games to be censorships because they're just "products", absent from any creativity or inspiration.

When you say you don't want video games to be art, or just say they "aren't" art, you kill your own medium. You support prioritizing decisions for the sake of profit instead of creativity, and any decision to nickle and dime you is, then, valid because that's what video games are for.

An Exclusive way of making money out of you.

>>323235334
You are right, video games are sports.

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>>323235334
uh...

>>323240790
>you think anyone who was smart enough to make that amount of money would be that retarded?

It's not hard conning dumbasses anon. That doesn't make you a genius.

Poetry > Music > Food > Visual Art >>>> POWERGAP > Prose > Cinema > Film > Movies > Flicks > POWERGAP > Television > Genre Fiction > Comic Books > MASSIVE POWERGAP > Animation > Video Gaming > Board Gaming > Traditional Gaming

Prove me wrong

>>323235334
That's dumb. Everything thing and anything can be art, but not everything or anything is art.

Only retarded autists would disagree

Like it or not video games can be an expression of art just like any other medium. Besides, I don't get why being considered art is some high arbiter of quality considering there's a lot more bad art than good art anyways.

>>323240963
I want them to not be considered art because I want them to keep being games, not turn into too-deep-profound-mature-and-intellectual for you walking simulator.

Seriously, fuck art.

>>323241068

post pic of your $41mil then mate

>>323241175
>food that high
Spotted the American.

100 years ago, in the 20th century /v/ we would have threads saying "movies aren't art faggots, stop trying to prove me otherwise"

people would believe in that 100 years old post, and we wouldn't have citizen kane

there's no disadvantage in believing video games are art
you only have to win as a customer

Art is an empty label. Nothing's art.

Anything created by a human out of love of doing it instead of pure utility is art.

A textbook isn't art, but a copy of Jurassic Park is. Instant ramen isn't art, but a wedding cake someone spend days making is. A job training video isn't art, but your favorite movie is.

Software like Microsoft Office isn't art, but you bet your ass a video game someone poured their heart into is art.
Art=/Quality

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>>323240783
If you actually had any hobby that didn't involve video games you'd know this. There is no stopping point with music or art, you can never be perfect or say "Well this is as good as I'm going to get". You spend your entire life perfecting your work.

>>323238663
This. Art doesn't exist anymore because everything is art. If you wanted something to be considered art you had to put effort into it actually being good, but since we live in an age where everything has to be acceptable and criticism is viewed as something to avoid and attack instead of learn from, anything can be art. And, if everything is art, then nothing is.

>>323240985
That's true and I think everyone can agree with that.

>>323241374
so children are art? My parents sure didn't need me as I'm of no utility to them. They just wasted resources cause they wanted a child

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>>323235334
Art? Yes. HIGH art? Far from it.

>>323240963
Art is shit, hell sometimes it's literally just shit. I want my games to be fun and not some stupid pretentious bullshit retards use to boost their social cred with.

>>323241292
Citizen Kane exists because Orson Welles wanted to tell an story about a millionaire and his miserable live, not to earn an arbitrary "art" label.

>>323241287

In pretty much every society, food is what ties a culture together. It changing reflects changes in society, and some dishes take decades of practice to achieve. Learning to appreciate some food is a skill in of itself.

So yes, food is very important.

>>323241271
Good argument m9-1, I guess people like Nikki minage or the kardashians are geniuses because they make a lot of money. Besides when it comes to these art "galleries" it's about making the artist themselves known. For that, you would need an agent who could get your art out there.

>>323235334
They could have been but that opportunity is no more.

>>323241429
>You can never be perfect
>You spend your entire life perfecting your work

But how can you perfect your work if it can never be perfect?

>>323241537

Your utility is that they bring their genes to the next generation, with the biological imperative of continuing a genetic line that has existed for eons.

Unfortunately, you're a fag, so their efforts were wasted.

>>323239230

Huh. This makes me like video games more. Thanks. Except my definition will be good game = skill + work + contemplation + reflection. :^)

Good art direction can only help a video game be better, but it can't be the driving force of a game from a quality perspective. You need good mechanical design and other competent uses of the technology you're working with to really make a good video game. And that's more of a science than an art, IMO.

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>>323241251
Think with your brain for just a moment.
It's not because movies was considered art meant that every single movie was a "too-deep-profound-and-intellectual".

Take a deep breath and think of all the movies that are released just to entertain you, they might have some messages but they're just ways of entertainment.

Gaming is the same.

But when you say it isn't, when you define and set a rule that "it can't be art" you limit it for no reason and you fall right here >>323241292

Even if video games are considered art by the whole world, you would still have people making games just to be games.

But just like people who love movies they say their medium is art because they don't want every movie to be "The transformers" or whatever garbage that is made just to make money

They want variety, and for that and for them you'll have the people who'll try to do something different.

But just like they had nothing to lose from having cinema as an art, we don't have anything to lose from having vidya as art either.

I don't see how this is so hard to understand. It's not because video games is considered art that every dev. will start wearing fedoras and start trying to do "2deep4u" garbage.

>>323241537
Nigga, we are on this earth to eat, reproduce and die. This is what nature has commanded. Having kids is a utility since its necessary for our survival.

>>323241859
well if you look at it that way everything is of utility. I made this cause it made me happy is just enough reason anyway to be considered useful. Out of love is a shit definition even though my example was also shit.

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>>323235334
Your art...is the best art...of all the art

>>323242000
we are not here to do those, we are here because we did those things. Huge difference.

>>323241629
yeah
but imagine if Welles wasn't allowed to make that movie

that his movie wasn't not allowed to be art
that his movie was banned or disapproved for not following standards of mass appeal

if movies "aren't allowed to be art" by a godly rule (he was simply not allowed to treat the medium with freedom of creativity) as this thread sets, then Welles would've never made Citizen Kane

Postal 2 is art.

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>>323241429
Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is art! Not just art but FINE art that is difficult to produce! Get the fuck outta here, I draw and paint still-lifes and I can tell you music is not at the same teir.

>>323242085
Happiness is not utility. Anything related to our growth, sustainability and survival our selfs and our culture is a utility. Gas, electricity and water are all utilities, cable and Internet are not.

>>323241773
Perfecting just means to get better at something

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>>323241175
>POETRY

>>323242376
Drawing is a dying market tho

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>>323235334
>people actually laud video game stories

As somebody who reads a lot it really grinds my gears. I have yet to find a game with a better story than even an average book.

>>323241537
Ur parents didn't love each other and the don't love you either.

>>323242376
No one ever said popular music = good music.

>>323242162
What the fuck

>>323242185
Yes we are since literally every other species on this planet does the same. It's embedded in our DNA, survival of the fittest, be fruitful and multiply. You can not go around Nature's demand. I see the point you are trying to make, but it's just not how it works.

>>323242574
I know, it's still my hobby. It relaxes me, besides I rarely ever sell my art.

>>323242541

Poetry is the most pure and unfiltered way the human conscious can express itself, and may be interpreted differently by everyone who reads a good piece. This makes it the superior form of written art, and one of the greatest forms of art as a whole.

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>>323242617
Would you say video games were a mistake?

>>323242162
literally poo poo pee pee tier. /r9k/ were successful artists all along!

>>323242837
Not at all, they just shouldn't be praised for anything more than a fun time waster. Trying to make them poignant pieces of social commentary is laughable.

>>323242574
Lolwut? Draw fetish furry porn on deviantart and make 100k a year on patreon.

I am going to clear up some MAJOR misconceptions people still have about art.

There are idiots who still operate under the mindset of: if I like it, it's art; if I dislike it, it's not-art. That's not how it works.

Art is art is art is art. Good art is art; bad art is art; mediocre art is art; etc.

Art doesn't need meaning; art doesn't need to be beautiful; art doesn't need to be realistic; etc. etc.

With THAT being said: games aren't art, they're an activity. Dancing can be art even if it is an activity, but it's a form of expression; games aren't forms of expressions in the same manner [language games/family resemblances before I get bombarded]. A game CAN contain artistic elements -- in fact, they do: their design is a compilation of artistic efforts [drawing, music, imagery, etc.]

A board-game can be art insofar as we only take into account the art involved on the board, not the game itself. Painting is not art: it is an activity; a painting is art, however.

And so on.

People make this more complicated than it need be.

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Why did video games have to become the worst possible hobby with the worst people orbiting it?

Even fucking D&D is more respectable.

as long as there's never ending COD and ASSCREED sequels, microtransactions, horse armor DLC and other jewy, money grubbing, bullshit, no, they are not art

>>323242647
But anon did say that music takes skill and learning to produce and I disagree. If you need a computer to do all your work then you're not making art. Just a product. Art takes skill. It's something you can improve. There is music that fits the description, I'm not doubting that; but to say that music in general takes some level of skill is just false.

>>323243148
They allowed everyone to get in.

Fact: people pushing the "videogames are art!" bullshit are just spineless bastards desperate to get approval from normalfags.

>>323243107
So designing games is art but playing them isn't? That would still make the game it's self a piece of art.

>>323243273
What was the real turning point? I mean Quake and Counter-Strike was full of boorish half-sociopaths, but their competition still had more going for it than CoD does.

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Memes are the ultimate form of art.

>>323242434
How did people survive up to these point without the utilities you just listed then

>>323243613
The Steam PS360.

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>>323243107
This guy gets it.

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>>323243148
>D&D has a shitty fanbase

>>323243184

>As long as there's never ending F&F and Transformers sequels, 3D, IMAX, and other money grubbing bullshit, movies are not art

>>323235334
It's a bit of everything art has to offer.

Get down with Dada, realize 'art' is an arbitrary label.

>>323244004

Every word is an arbitrary label you triple nigger

>>323243767
No, memes are the ultimate form of life
a fantastic meme could potentially live for millions of years and spread everywhere, much longer and more impressive than a mere human

>>323242782
It is exactly how it works, beings that didnt have those qualities just didnt survive up to this point because they lacked them not because 'the point of their existance' was to vanish or not ensure their dna to continue

>>323235334
Video games are a craft, which is better than art because it requires your brain to fucking work.

>>323244109
Nigger isn't, faggot.

I give this thread 5 bags of popcorn and a tiny little joystick so you can go home and enjoy some video games.

>>323243792
So you don't know what a comparison is?

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>>323243974
hipsters may never learn...

>>323235334
just like music, video games died long ago.

>>323243107

He did it! Thanks anon.

Ever been to a subway? ever order a sandwhich? art?

you know your fathers dick is the paint brush. your moms pussy is the canvas. you are the art.

>>323235334
then what is?

>>323244234
Don't spew bullshit, your argument was not logically sound

>>323235334

Undertale is literally the mona lisa of our generation.

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>>323235334
>video games contain art
>"THEY'RE NOT ART GUYS"

Meanwhile a man paints a square box a nice colour and it sells for millions. I guess that's what art is to you, you faggot.

>pic related is modern "art" hung in an actual art gallery.

Ask me what my favorite meme is and I'll tell you.

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>>323235334
No arguments here.

>>323244135
It's still ultimately our purpose, we just happen to have a win/fail state

>>323244506
>it is because I say so, i dont have to back my claims

>>323244459
One box is clean the other is worn out, it represents the evils of capitalism. That's probably what the "artist" came up with when he found these in a garbage dump somewhere.

>>323244409
If you have to define it then you don't know what it is.

>>323244135
>beings that didnt have those qualities just didnt survive up to this point because they lacked them not because 'the point of their existance' was to vanish or not ensure their dna to continue

Not that anon but: The lack of desirable DNA causes species/ beings to vanish. So he is correct with his last post. The entire purpose is to advance and multiply our species. What are you trying to state here?

>>323235334
ok

>>323240443
>he doesn't know how to operate a dslr on manual let alone the process of shooting and developing on film.
>he thinks iphone snaps count as photography; hell probably can't even tell the difference.
>he doesn't understand music theory and how incredibly simple it is to play music.

The highest grade retard, everyone.

>>323244818
Its how we are here not why

>>323240276
All of them but most people think that art have to be good or special.

>>323244779
If you can't define it then you don't know what it is, actually. If you supposedly know what art is it shouldn't be a problem to define it

>>323244639
How do you want him to back a claim like that? He just did via example from nature. Other species are doing it, we aren't any different technically. YOU need to back YOUR claims.

>>323240276
System Shock familia the level design is fucking GOAT and if that's not art then art is shit mate.

>>323245104
Define the acne on your funny face you basement dwelling social outcast.

>>323244439
Imagine life is a shitty apartment and you happen to have an equally shitty job. Your goal at the end of the day is to use your money (resources) wisely to ensure you survive another day. Instead of spending your money on frivolous things, you focus on the necessaries first, rent, food, electricity, water, and gas. If you have a little money left over, you're going to cherish it greatly, maybe you rent a redbox you carefully picked out or bought a cake to celebrate being alive, who knows. Now imagine you have a kickass job and you have a great place to live. You don't have to worry about your utilities so you can splurge. After getting cable and Internet, you go out to the movies, buy music, build a PC, whatever entertains you. After a point though, you'll have so much bullshit, that you realize some of it sucks. That's why modern art is crap, but it still is art.

>>323240443
>how easy it is to do something decides whether or not is art
Not necessarily true

>>323245250
>resorts to dodging the question and using ad hominems
Oh wow, I'm sure you're such a mature artist that knows more about art than everyone else! Until you make a reply defining art, all you're doing is wasting everyone's time

>>323245026
It's also the why. We evolved and that's also our goal. To keep evolving.

>>323245367
So building a pc is art, taking a walk at the beach is art, cleaning your house is art, skating is art, doing sports is art....

>>323244639
Nature backs my claim

>>323245650
We ate so eating is our goal, we walk so walking is our goal, we breath so breathing is our goal then?

Just because we survived, doesnt make surviving our goal.

>>323235334
Video games are by definition art. Not all art is good art.

>>323245932
No it fucking doesnt

>>323245668
The first three are utilities, but the last two are art

>>323245954
It's our first priority and only priority. So we should focus on painting pretty pictures instead of making new medicine to treat diseases? Is that what you want?

>>323246084
Explain how it doesn't

>>323246084
How?

>>323235334
I know.

Some games come pretty close though.

>videogames need a pretentious label for some reason

art, not art, give me one reason why it matters. You can't.

>>323246201
What the fuck are you talking about?

I didnt claim any such thing. You are just bullshiting now that you realized you dont make any sense.

>>323246201
You sound like a retard.

>>323235334

Art
>the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

Literally video games.

>>323246182
Oh fuck off walkin at the beach is a utility now? There's no point arguing with a retard like you

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>>323244132
forgot your picture familia

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Art is but a vision, a dream. Your ideas of "art" and life don't exist. Nothing truly exists expect an empty space and you. You all are but a thought...

>>323246290
>>323246304
I bet you guys also think that if most of tall people are black, that means black people are tall.

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>>323246758

Thanks memelord

>>323246971
What's that got to do with the discussion at hand? We know 99.99% of the species on earth live to reproduce, we know we're also a species on earth. Put two together.

"Art" is a buzzword.

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Depression Quest.

Checkmate, faggots.

>>323235334
Oh that's okay, I never gave a shit either way to begin with. I'm gonna go back to playing some vidya, kay?

>>323247723
It's relevant because you have a similar problem. You think that because everything does something that it's purpose. it doesn't fucking transfer your problem is you think it transfers but it fucking doesn't, you can't comprehend this occurence.

All atoms vibrate, we are made of atoms, then our purpose is to vibrate. Does this fucking make sense to you? It's just something that happens or is, just like the fact that we reproduce. It doesn't make it our purpose.

let's say I made a machine to take photographs with. It's purpose is to help me take photographs. All the machines that I made for this purpose also uses electricity. Is using electricity that machine's purpose? 100% of all the macines I made does it, this machine is one of them. Put two together?

No fuck you it doesn't work like that.

>>323248174
Ok, please enjoy that game and I hope you continue to live a thriving life anon. You are loved