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Are video games harder than a real game like...
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Are video games harder than a real game like chess?
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Chess is a video game
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Is Chess harder then a real game like Go?
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>>323136420
Depends I guess. But the complexity and intellectual merit of chess is incredibly overblown amongst people in general.
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>chess
>Medieval Cannon Fodder Simulator: The Game
Any game that doesn't allow me to HALO drop a Rook - Knight - Bishop squad over the King's compound at 0400 to double-tap him and bring about a swift end to the war, isn't a game.
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>>323136534
Go is way harder than chess.
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Chess is a videodisc
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>>323136420
I would not say video games are harder than chess but I also don't see them as comparable. A common trait in the "strategy" of online or team games is denying the opponent information.

Using your image as an example, a smoke grenade is like covering 1/3 of the board and making the "correct" decision much harder for a shotcaller. Do most people have this experience with CS:GO? No.
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>>323136534
Is Go harder than a real game like Knifey-Spoony?
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I get more of a thrill out of a close match of chess than CS:GO. If we're being serious, there's too many X factors out of your control in CS:GO like a slip of the wrist or a team misplay. That's not to say they're not skills to be polished in and of themselves, but it creates room for excuses and things out of an individual's realistic control.

Chess is entirely a game of intellect and thought. Sounds like a Quentin image, but it's not. When you beat someone, someone on your level, at Chess, it feels damn good. You outsmarted them. There's the first move advantage, but if they're a good enough partner it's worth doing a set or two or three.

I used to play chess during the summer for kicks with friends. I read "Love In the Time of Cholera" recently and it's had me itching for a consistent chess opponent. If you haven't caught someone in a good play to a good checkmate in Chess, then you're really missing out. Especially over coffee in the morning. Fuck, now I'm all nostalgic.
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Chess is the ultimate strategy game, fuck of weeaboos.
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>>323136420
There aren't a lot of things that are harder than chess.
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>memorize optimal opening move and responses

such strategery
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>>323139525
>more chess moves than there are atoms in the universe
>memorize them all
gg
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>>323139113
That scene is the reason I couldnt go past Ep1
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>>323139816
>more than there are atoms in the universe.
Nigger what the fuck are you doing?
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>>323140506
Using hyperbole but still making a valid point?
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>>323140713

no. not at all.
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>>323136420
Are you this guy?
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>>323140506

It's true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_number
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>>323140958

Yep. This is also the reason why there will never be a computer that is a perfect chess player; it would take an absurd amount of memory to have it learn every possible move and scenario.
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>>323140506
the lower boundary of the number of possible chess moves is 10^120.

There are an estimated 4x10^81 atoms in the universe
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>>323140958

Holy shit.

I... I stand corrected.
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>>323138941
That's not a knife that's a spoon
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>>323141187

Somebody will soon be here to argue with the work of a mathematician that hasn't bene refuted since it was put forward 65 years ago, and the many physicists and mathematicians alike who all have reached a consensus on the probable number of atoms in the universe. Calling it.
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I'm probably going to get savaged for this and I hate the game but chess is more akin to RTS games like SC2 in that most of the skill is learning strategies and then counter strategies with some lesser level of adaptation needed in certain circumstances

I would say the 'skill' of both is quite overrated
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>>323141415
Oho I beg to differ
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>>323139816
There aren't that many viable moves though that aren't retarded and lead to things that are actually helpful
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>>323141510

How could you hate chess? Are the graphics not good enough? Has it not "aged well"? Are the controls "clunky"? Well, thanks for sharing your opinion "now that the dust has settled". "It's shit", right?
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>>323141126
The thing is that it doesn't really need to. Almost all of those choices are objectively sub-optimal and branch off from an initial sub-optimal choice that the computer never needs to consider. Humans have the advantage of knowing what most of these are intuitively right now, but that's the sort of thing they're trying to program these days.
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>>323141697
10/10
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>>323141603

What the fuck does this even mean? Define "viable move". There are billions of moves that can be viable. Even if you purposely allow most of your pieces to be captured, this can still be made viable! I'm sorry if we're insulting your previous video games, and I'm also sorry if we're hurting your attempts to feel smart and superior by being contrarian. :-/
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>>323141697
I don't hate chess I hate SC2

However I do think chess is quite overrated and there are many games that are just as skill based as it that get overlooked
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>>323141697
Fuck i laughed too hard
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>>323138941
That's not a knife that's a spoon!
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>>323138941
Don't be a loon bin that spoon
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>>323141871
That statistic only refers to 'possible' moves, but there are exponentially less 'good' moves so I would say it's quite misleading
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>>323141765

But there's no such thing as "sub-optimal", and you already destroyed your argument by using the word "objective". There are an infinite number of strategies. You can purposely allow your queen to be captured as part of a plan. Anything goes.

I'm studying law and rhetoric at an Ivy League school and play chess in a club recreationally. I'm not an expert at the game by any means but I've heard many conversations about the game and it's infinite number of possibilities.

The fact that there are tens of thousands of books written about the game should tell you something about its depth. You act like there's a small number of possibilities that simply need to be remembered. You're probably accustomed to playing video games and thus have been taught that everything boils down to just a few possibilities.
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>>323141765

...but then you can just abuse the AI by purposefully playing "sub-optimal" moves that it isn't programmed to react to.

You know what? Forget it. You are seemingly an expert at the subject. You should go work for a company to programs chess AI!
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damn

chess people are a lot more well spoken and intelligent than the average /v/ user

I guess it makes sense since the game relies of rational thought, cold calculation and a deep understanding a human emotion, psychology and body language
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chess is a solved game
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>>323142506
>...but then you can just abuse the AI by purposefully playing "sub-optimal" moves that it isn't programmed to react to.
Actually, this is a thing when it come to human vs. human. Since most people prepare one or two or maybe three lines of a particular opening, some people with play the fourth or fifth or even sixth best move to create a nuanced position and force their opponents out of their prep.

I don't know why you're getting so mad, anon.
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>>323142625
>chess is a solved game
It's absolutely not, though. Some people think it will be in a decade or so, but it's not now, not yet.
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>>323142716

Well, yeah, a poor player. Chess experts often stress that memorisation of strategies often yields poor results and that being able to react to any given scenario is key.

It's like being in a street fight: reading a hundred combat manuals won't mean a thing if you choke under the pressure or sit around waiting for a move that you don't know how to counter.
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>>323142618
Rrrrright
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>>323142935
>Well, yeah, a poor player.
I don't know if that's necessarily true. Actually something I hear a lot of 24-2500 players complain about is that most "super GM" games are 20 moves of prep and an agreed draw.
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>>323139973
...why?
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>>323142787

It's hypothesised that it may be possible to solve the game. We have no way of knowing until computational technology advances far enough, and estimates as to when that will happen are just that: estimates.
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>>323143038
After twenty years of fighting each other, one could imagine that most shaolin monks would know when a duel was lost, well before the average bystander could tell.

You're not a computer. Unless you have savant-style memorization, thinking is the better choice by a mile.
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>>323141510

Those games generally have at least a tiny element of luck in the form of randomly generated numbers, though, where chess does not.
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>>323136420
CS is closer to Poker than chess.
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>>323143264
>Unless you have savant-style memorization, thinking is the better choice by a mile.
This is both wrong and right.

There have many, many GM games that are move-for-move duplicates of eachother, because those lines are the optimal lines, and no one forgot what move to me make and blundered.

The necessity of understanding positions is why novelties exist and are played, and why games are won or lost when an optimal move is forgotten or unknown.

Chess is though absolutely easier with strong memorization, even if it isn't "a game of memorization" like a couple anons asserted. But yeah of course it isn't the be-all, end-all of the game.
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chess is practically solved, as computers beat top humans consistently. Even if they aren't playing optimally.

It'll still take some years for go bots to beat top professionals. But probably we'll see a lot of advancement in ten years time.
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>>323142363
I have a FIDE certified ELO of 2100, I don't take it too seriously but I do hope to reach 2200 at some point to get my CM title.

That being said and regardless if you believe me, you should really look into what Fischer thinks about the matter, there are many interviews/documentaries on his thoughts and they all boil down to Chess being a nearly solved game.

I don't know why you're implying that there aren't a multitude of absolutely unviable moves but that's the way it is, every GM knows the theoretically best move in the early game to everything that can happen.
The only reason inferior moves are played is because of having a certain approach to the human opponent, something that doesn't work againt AI.
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>>323139113
That's not how Chess works you fucking Japs.
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>>323143852
Your post reveals that you don't actually understand what 'solving' means.

A weak solution to a game means that 1) given both parties make perfect logical moves, 2) you can secure a win for one particular side, or a draw from either.

A strong solution gives an algorithm for perfect play, even if a mistake (or more) was made.

Chess has been solved for significantly smaller chessboards, with a handful of pieces. If N is the number of possible games, we're only up to the square root of N.

Given current technological progress, we will not solve chess in your children's lifetime - barring the development of quantum computing or something else that MULTIPLIES current technological capability.
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>>323143912
>I have a FIDE certified ELO of 2100
I wish I was motivated enough to even get a FIDE rating. There's no chess clubs near where I live and I hate the idea of playing online. Plus I'm almost 30. It's a bummer.
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>>323143912
>tfw 25
>tfw too old to ever become a cm
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>>323144251
>>323144359

Honestly, coming from someone who is FIDE certified - it's just a huge circlejerk.

The biggest benefit is having a very accurate rating of yourself, people who are truly on your level to play with and a very good ground to improve by watching slightly better players and trying to adopt their thinking patterns somewhat.

You won't have any regrets if you start playing regularly now and look for a community you can practice and grow with for years.
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>>323143623
>Le RNG meme

You're just bad
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any one care to share some weird chess story?
I once made a grade A student cry in high school by winning 2 matches against him. He was mad because I wasn't a bright kid but I fucking love chess
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>>323146870
Umm, I got use my first Alekhine's gun the other week. The entire match had been completely positional; no trading at all. The when I was finally able to move after lining everything up, there was one trade of the first rook, then I moved in my Queen for the mate, so the only trades in the game were for mate.
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>>323147597
must have been beautiful, these are my favorite type of matches
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>>323148189
Well, saying that we're both "unrated" players would be a kindness, so I'm sure any GM of any caliber would have flipped our board and kicked our asses after like move 10. ...But yeah I thought it was nice.
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>>323143852
>chess is practically solved,
You're practically autistic
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>>323148326
2 scrubs playing street fighter believes their matches are amazing against each other
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>ignoring the fact that there are different types of difficulty in games

Comparing a mental game like chess to all video games is retarded. Super hard games such as precision platformers like Meat Boy and even more so some crazy hard fangames of IWBTG like Kamilia 3, are super hard, but they're about training muscle memory and reaction times.
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