>Dev getting paid for their work and not getting their shit stolen
>this thread again
> actual devs getting paid
>and not just shitty publishers
>fucking over the customer saves pc gaming
Just cause 3 is a perfect example of a game that I will never play unless I pirated it. I don't care if denuvo makes all games immune to piracy. I'll just pay for the games that I actually want to support like usual.
>implying the chinks weren't just paid off to leave it alone
Don't worry, the good old days will soon be back and we won't have to pirate games with shitty infected cracks from a bunch of sweaty chinamen anymore, I say good riddance.
>securom is unbreakable, piracy is done for!!
>starforce is unbreakable, piracy is done for!!!!!111
>steam is unbreakable, piracy is done for!!!!
>denuvo is unbreakable, piracy is done for!!!!!111
It still amazes me that people are happy or even excited about the fact that pirated games "might" be done for. Atleast you'll be able to pay full price to try a game you may not like.
In fact it's harming PC gaming.
Denuvo fucks up optimisation and performance.
People mass refund said games
Other games have been released with shit performance like Just Cause 3
Also the fact that all these games would sell way over a million on PC.
Yet not even one has done this.
None have made it to 500k.
Developers are shooting themselves in the foot by using this DRM.
There are other better methods that would be so much less convoluted.
God bless denuvo for protecting you guys from jc3. It's been over a month and it still runs like shit, maybe the only chance you've got is having 16+ gb ram to handle the bloated piece of shit and even then some people get issues.
And then they tell us it's not even as good as 2! What a colossal fuck up.
Time to stop relying on the Chinese.
I've honestly only ever pirated a few games and they all wind up being games I purchase the real version of. Like I remember pirating Skyrim and CS Source back in the day for example.
The only reason I did it for Skyrim was because I planned on going and buying the PS3 version a week or so after it came out and we got hit with a fuck ass blizzard right after I had gotten off work. I snagged it online and it ran fairly on my laptop so I played it for three days until the roads got better (My apartment was way out in fuck ass nowhere) I went in and snagged it at gamestop, never opened the pirated copy again and the harddrive eventually fried later anyways.
With CS Source I had originally purchased it on steam back in, hell, 2005 maybe? Never had a good computer in the house but my friends brothers had all the shit and let us use from time to time. So naturally, being a retarded 7th grader and not knowing the password to some email I made in 2003, lost the account. After high school the guy I moved in with had a sweet rig and I wanted to play CS. So I snagged it on PB Im pretty sure? But I eventually got like, both left 4 deads on disc as gifts so I wound up making a new steam and buying CS Source a second time anyways.
If a game is good, I have no problem at all giving money for it. I guess it was more of a "I'm going to play these games and nothing is going to stop me" deal, with the end goal always being to have a purchased copy of the game.
Once they have a way of massively blocking piracy for other media, then I'll have a small concern.
>Chinese government demands that all software published in the country have a backdoor for "security" reasons
>Gamers get spied on
>Crackers abuse it and release piracy edition without spyware
>Chinese gov doesn't give a fuck since it cucks western companies for the benefit of their own ppl
its bound to happen
I bargain binned it at walmart last year. Took it home, played a little bit, put it back in its case and dropped it right back off in the bargain bin. I didn't even bother returning it for store credit or any of that bullshit. That thing belonged back in that bin and I was a damn fool for trying to take it from that.
Why would we tho?
Games are being butchered. Just look at that hot trash called Star wars Battlefront.
Remember when that was amazing?
Truth be told I only pirate from publishers I don't like.
Lucky for me there hasn't been anything to pirate in quite a while.
It has nothing to do with Denuvo you cuck.
It's a coincidence that a lot of games that were lazy cash crabs used Denuvo.
Mad Max, made by the team that did Just Cause 2, uses Denuvos; run's fucking great.
Just Cause 3, made by the B Team, runs like shit, happens to use Denuvo.
Arkham Knight, a rushed outsource port that was made in less than a month. Happens to use Denuvo.
Metal Gear Solid 5, a well optimised port that performs incredibly well and scales for a range of hardware configuration. Happens to use Denuvo.
Lord of the Fallen, a shitty Souls cash-in by talentless polacks, happens to use Denuvo.
Denuvo is correlated with greedy publishers, not necessarily poor performance.
so, no, no actual verifiable facts
i mean, right here, right now, you could get any fps tracking tool, and run both and post it, 5 mins tops. and in the entire 2 years its been done, not a single /v/ user has even bothered.
and im supposed to believe...you.
>Have you played them without Denuvo?
>Pretty easy to see if you just play it.
oh, so you didnt see, but you did see. interesting. you could tell the difference despite not actually, having them side by side. tell me more.
right now there are two posters. one says there is, one says there isnt. and one of them is now saying they didnt even have both, but hes more trust worthy.
As long as hackerz can control computers on Earth there will be cracks. It's the nature of the fucking machine.
>all these poorfag fucking NEETS claiming they'll boycott gaming if they can't steal products anymore
Lel, stay mad and cucked forever.
here we go, with some LE REDDIT posts showing they dont.
now, get the LE HUE REDDIT out of your system and remind yourself that thats...5 cases proving it a no, versus your, well, you just admitted you didnt actually compare it, so nothing`s nothing.
listen, how many posts do we gotta do this until you just run off in a huff saying "i dont need to prove shit". weve done this already. the closest ive ever seen anyone ever get to actual evidence was a developer said it on a stream.
wanna know how that trail of evidence ended? no video of it exists. and the only comments about it, are just "i seent it"
im assuming you ment "where", not what
so, where are they? id love to see them. a single one. by a single person. in the past 730 days. tell me, who told YOU first that there was an issue with denuvo and ssds. some guy on 4chan?
What is the end result?
In what way does a corporation ending "los...
Wait, need more
benefit you personally? Do you believe that more games will be ported to the PC? Do you believe that better games will come out?
>can't pirate shitty AAA cashgrabs made by lazy, inept, talentless, hack developers & shit-tier publishers
hopefully this manages to just further drive Ubishit and EA out of the vidya scene since nobody will buy their shit games on "good faith" (that they'll be anything besides buttfucked)
as predicted. 5/0. obviously, this is so well known and easily disputed, someone must of...right?
you are aware that the intial, first big post about denuvo doing this was...a reddit post. i tried looking up the history and it goes to there. so if you consider reddit not verifiable or useful, then, the original claim that denuvo kills ssd`s, well...whoopsy.
Dude, no one actually mentioned SSDs. They were arguing that Denuvo decreases performance, wasn't necessarily to do with SSDs.
I'm fairly certain, based on my own experiences that they are wrong, but you're attacking a strawman, bruh.
rightooooo. even if i agree with you, thats still...0 arguments for, and 0 against.
of course, actually finding evidence is impossible because it dosent exist, so its waaaaay easier to shit on the integrity of reddit. so keep at it.
we will be here for a couple hours. no one will post a single. verifiable. link
lords of the fallen. 9 hours average play time. 180,000 players with, at the time, a 9% rate of ssd ownership. thats 16,000 fried ssd`s, since the original claim was 2 gigs a second read/write, which would flop your average ssd in 6 hours.
so where are they. it might scare you, but ive actually attempted to fact check this shit.
also, hilarious, everyones going to assume im pro-denuvo, not anti-unsourceable claims. you want a REAL, verifiable claim for why denuvo should be fucking shit on? it completely stops modding, and will be the gateway for PAID modding. there you go.
use THAT. because you can PROVE it. thread after thread no one can actually link anyone, to anything that actually shows or proves denuvo effects performance, or fries ssds. in 2 years. not a single one.
makes you kinda curious, huh
hey, your right, i guess people started smarting up and realising they couldnt fucking source it.
okay. so source me anything about performance differences. remember, weve already clarified that you can play a cracked version side by side with a normal version, and that benchmarking tools are completely free.
come on /v/, lets get together and crack this one, once and for all. lets do what no one else seems to have done in 2 years, a single, 5 minute test.
>anything that actually shows or proves denuvo effects performance, or fries ssds. in 2 years. not a single one.
Because removing Denuvo is a crime. Who the fuck would willingly admit to committing a crime? Remember what happened to Geohots?
I ran TPP(pirated) before I upgraded my PC. Had a 6770 and an i3 530. A first fucking generation i3 and 4 gigs of RAM. There was remarkably little difference in framerate even then when fucking around with the graphics settings, and it ran pretty smooth no matter what unless I sperged out with the AA. At 1080p.
It's just not a very resource intensive game.
PS3's games are finally here, and they're going to save us all from cinematic sandbox experiences that require a developer workstation PC with an i7 6900k and a $2000 nvidia workstation card and an SSD (it werkz for me :^)) to run thanks to nvidia gameworks and denuvo malware
Everything is crackable given time. Those Chinese are talking out of there ass.
If indeed it was true it fucks over people like me who stay away from putting my cc information into online storefronts like steam (The recent security leaks reaffirmed this).
I say this because i like to pirate games to see if they run well on my pc before i actually purchase them on steam using steamcards i purchase in brick and mortar store. I don't like the idea that i only have 2 hours to play something in order to get a refund all while having to see if somebody at valve dictate if i get my money back or not.
I learned my lesson doing this with Arma 3 and spending more than 2 hours just tickering around with my settings just to get it to run at a decent framerate.
Did you even read my post you absolute fucktard? I'm the cuck that said any bad performance associated with Denuvo was more a result on shitty greedy publishers who make shit ports having a tendency to use Denuvo. I agree it has no effect on performance, two other dipshits disagreed then out of nowhere your dumbass brings up SSD destruction.
>Because removing Denuvo is a crime. Who the fuck would willingly admit to committing a crime?
>I've tried both versions of Mad Max, Arkham Knight and MGS5 with no difference.
>That Samefaggot ITT that keeps defending Denuvo™ DRM
Fucking get banned already.
oh, so i just have to ignore all the other people who DID claim so
also, technically, its literally impossible denuvo has NO effect on performance, because at the end of the day, even the tiniest bit of code has to be run, which would take up even the slightest amount of power. people here of course assume im defending denuvo, which ruin the modding community and allow paid modding to flourish, instead of just trying to find any ACTUAL fucking evidence
You're right OP, denuvo is saving pc gaming.
By not letting people play shitty AAA garbage.
>can still pirate indie games
>can still pirate movies
>can still pirate music
>can still bang your mom
Steam killed the modding community, not DRM. Nobody mods games anymore because games are meant to be sold and not played. Nobody gives a shit who plays their games on PC as long as they make money. Why do you think shit like Batman doesn't ever get patched?
>Everything is crackable given time.
That's the whole point of Denuvo, dumbass. Buying time. FIFA 2016 was released in September and still not cracked.
As the member of 3dm said, it IS crackeable but it takes so much effort it makes you want to quit, specially because bitcoin miners probably aren't worth all the trouble.
Denuvo is rendering piracy unprofitable in the short term.
You misunderstand. People used to play games for years on PC, now they buy them and don't even install them. This killed the active communities for games which means nobody mods them.
There also has a high probability that 60% of those game would run like poorly on PC, have driver overhead issues, will run gameworks and/or have denuvo. So PCucks are still getting cucked in the end.
im sorry, im not sure how, "its hosted in russia" and "its not affiliated with them", has anything to do with "they are hosting content freely and continously, that is apparently illegal", or how "even if its illegal, how this stopped them".
remember, we were talking about why no one has ever, shown a single shred of evidence for it.
Are you not so good at the English, anon? Not a single one of the posts you quoted mentioned SSDs.
In fact, only one of those posts even makes the claim that Denuvo is responsible for bad perfomance. And I earlier refuted that point by pointing out that in fact, it was a coincidence that a number of Denuvo protected games have also been shitty rushed ports.
I don't even know what you're trying to argue anymore
Because people in China and Russia will never buy the original to prove you wrong. Piracy is objectively better for the consumer even before performance improvements are brought into question.
PC gamers don't play games, they just buy them because they're really cheap. Steam is a cesspool full of indieshit and garbage that can't pass Sony/Microsoft console standards to be released elsewhere.
I'm not defending it. I'm just refusing the fairytale argument that it has a noticeable effect of performance. It's a shitty business practice, but don't invent fanciful bullshit, it's not necessary and just makes you look like a butthurt cumshitter who's upset at the prospect of paying for games.
you either, buddy, since i was pointing out they also mentioned performance, not ssds. you specifically stated the bad performance was not denuvo, but bad companies using denuvo, as seen
>I'm the cuck that said any bad performance associated with Denuvo was more a result on shitty greedy publishers who make shit ports having a tendency to use Denuvo
to which i responded, directly, with, posts that claimed it wasnt just companies, but...denuvo. as seen...well, you replied to it, i dont think i need to link it again. so whats your first language?
>Thinking Steamworks would be good for the modding community in the long run
>Shit support and everyone is just stealing and repacking each other's work.
>Gaben is getting a larger cut than the modder.
golly, it sure makes you wonder how they cracked the something they never had, dosent it. you know, cracking the denuvo on the copy of the game they had, that had no denuvo.
>There also has a high probability that 60% of those game would run like poorly on PC, have driver overhead issues
>shitting on devs this hard while demanding they deserve to be paid and praising publishers for DRM
>dev getting paid for their work and not getting their shit stolen
Funny you should say it like that, anon...
>The problem is that Interplay has not paid to Parallax any royalties since 2007. We've talked to them about this numerous times over the years, and finally took action this fall. We served Interplay official notice that they were in breach of the contract, and when they still failed to pay we terminated the agreement.
WB was too fucking cheap to pay to fix their broken port and Cocksteady don't care. Arkham Knight was their shittiest game of the series; SUPMAN is going to really be shit if they stay on their downward spiral.
(that downward spiral will get you a big and huge sub-10 FPS when done in SUPMAN)
>These people still get paid to make these posts
>Attempt to subvert the younger this-summer's audience of /v/ from the knowledge of how a publisher-developer relationship works
>Believes piracy won't get worked around
>Thinks people will pay $60-120 a game just because piracy is gone
>Thinks the company who created this won't charge an arm and a fucking leg because they're the only ones who have the technology thus raising the price thus raising the desire to bypass it.
It's secuROM all over again, it'll probably get bypassed and it'll also probably come to light within a year or two that it's fucking illegal to use because to be so unbreakable it has to do some secuROM tier shit, the companies still won't get taken down by the governmen despite this because games bring in too much money.
Enjoy another game with worst performance because of this shit by the way and an actual better performance after bypassing.
It is 2016 and publishers and devs still don't understand how piracy works. It is just free advertising if your product is good. All anti-piracy stuff on a game does is send up a red flag that the publisher doesn't think the game is good enough to sell on its own merits and content. You won't magically get sales if you stop piracy, especially if your price points are still stupidly inflated.
You might want to look up a concept called a Net Promoter Score. It is a customer service thing. The more people that like your product or service talk about it to other people. Same if they hate it but in a negative manner. It helps drive awareness and uptake of the product or service.
Did you not watch the video? There is direct correlation to your product being available for free to increased sales if it is good.
Piracy is literally the shitty sales boogyman that publishers use to justify why their shitty game didn't sell for the inflated price the put it on the market for.
What the fuck are you on about? I said nothing of any difference between playing with denuvo or without, as I still haven't played any game with it, I just wrote out my experience with running MGS:V. It's not a resource intensive game so it's got a lot of leeway, you wouldn't expect to see bad performance even if denuvo got in the way, as evidenced by it running just fine on a five year old(everything but GPU even worse) budget PC.
I'm really out of the loop, really haven't been pirating as much lately since most releases I would normally pirate aren't even worth the bandwidth anymore. MGSV is the first instance in quite a while of a game I want to play but don't want to pay for.
when VHS came under fire for being able to record shit, the MPAA went batshit insane and tried to have it buried
After they couldn't make it stick, they made BILLIONS from VHS sales and rentals
Same thing with Napster and online sales
people buy more shit online now than ever before and the labels pay out practically NOTHING in royalties to artists anyways
It is completely unreasonable to think that piracy is in any way hurting an industry, unless they are completely unwilling to follow trends, in which case they don't seserve to be in business in the first place.
Funny thing: Of the last 50 games I pirated I played 1 for more than an hour. And that one I bought for full retail to play the MP with friends. So even if piracy dies, I will simply trust my gut feeling even more than I did before.
I am sure that back in the days before Steam and other online retailers piracy probably did hurt sales in some manner. Because it was not as easy to go buy the game legit for a reasonable price.
However now that there are easy ways for people to buy, and sales for those that don't agree with the initial price offering, it is hard to justify it hurting sales.
The market is slowly correcting itself.
Companies can their own social media marketing, relying on pirates for marketing is unreliable since majority of them are more entitled than gamin jurnalyst or streamers and majority of them don't own a site or channel that has decent net traffic.
You really think someone who hasn't paid jack shit is going to be harder to please? I don't buy that. I spoke pretty highly of Just Cause 2 because I pirated it. If I'd paid for it I would have been pissed since it's boring as hell after just a few hours.
>I am sure that back in the days before Steam and other online retailers piracy probably did hurt sales in some manner
The problem with that claim is that it's completely unverifiable.
>Lucky for me there hasn't been anything to pirate in quite a while.
Exactly my thought. At the rate at which pirate worthy games are release I wont even want to pirate anything by 2018 anymore.
If pirating gets phased out then I can guarantee the market will suffer.
All of my friends come to me to ask what games they should buy. If I can't provide them any personal opinions based on my experiences then they've lost potential sales.
>New DRM comes out
>IT'S OVER, PIRACY IS FINISHED!
>Competent groups bust it open and fuck the ever-loving shit out of it like it's going out of style.
>WE'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, FILTHY PIRATES, YOU HEAR ME? NEXT TIME!
>paying customers get shitty DRM forced into their assholes
>pirates just don't play the games that have that DRM
>nobody actually wins
True. There was no real way for them to get proper statistics on it. Which is why they were always able to blame piracy for poor sales. It sounded like a legit excuse to people who didn't know how it all worked.
Coupled with the usual amazing reviews (which they totally didn't pay for honestly guys!) and it started to sound even more legit. Because why would an 'amazing' game not sell unless there was some sort of reason like piracy.
They never wanted to look at the possibility that prices were too high. Or that reviews were fixed. Or that the game was for a niche markets. Etc. Etc. Etc. It was always just blame piracy for bad sales.
The problem is that gaming became and industry, instead of staying a hobby that one could make some money from if they were good. Everything suffered because of that.
>implying games worth playing will still be coming out in 2018
>doing anything for "the benefit of their own people"
Yeah, I suppose that's why they censor everything, do nothing to stop the rampant human trafficking and child labor, produce so much pollution their country is covered in a disgusting haze of smog and despite getting money from just about every Western country in the world are STILL tanking economically.
My personal problem is: Whatever happened to game demos?
Back in the day I would play the fuck out of a demo and then decide to GET THE GAME. Nowadays there are no demos on PC - they exist on consoles but not PC. Why? So I tend to pirate games just to figure out they suck after 5 minutes. I could have found that out way easier without seeding it for others. So yeh I fuck with companies because they fuck with me, too. Give me back my game demos.
You will get your refunding privileges revoked if you abuse it like that....
PC gaming needs to be destroyed. It is a cancerous abomination. PCs are for work and browsing the internet. Blu-Ray players are for movies. iPods are for music. Consoles are for games.
Let's examine the PC "gaming" experience"
>Sit at a desk (yes, like an office desk) to play games
>Face is two feet away from a 20-30" monitor rather than 10 feet from an 80" screen
>Uses a literal keyboard to play games (yep, like the same thing used to write documents)
>Constantly complain about graphics rather than being immersed in the game
>Needs 60fps then 120fps, then 144fps
>Needs 1080p then 1440p then 4k
>Decides how they want the game to look rather than letting the artist do it ("excuse me chef, I want my steak served with peanut butter please")
>Deal with Windows operating system on a daily basis
>Tend to be obnoxious and entitled assholes
The thing is, you can't disprove any of this. You KNOW it's true. And that's why PC gaming needs to be shot in the head like a diseased animal. Gaming was best when PCs were quarantined as the platformer for shitting "machur" games. Now they've infected the rest of gaming and ruined it.
I can't do the Dr. Klaw voice though. Gotta go with what you know.
There are a few reason demos made an exit. One is that as games got bigger it became less and less feasible to make them and still have them available en-masse for the people. On top of it taking extra effort on the part of the devs to do.The first part of that became moot once things like Steam and decent internet rolled out around the world. But that second part still holds true.
The other reason is that publishers realised that by letting people know ahead of time what the game was like they couldn't make bank on hype. Since you could effectively realise their product was shit before launch, which impacted sales. This is of course only a real concern if your product is shit. Decent games in the past got sales from having good demos. I know I bought SimGolf specifically because the demo was great, to the point that the wait for the full game became unbearable.
So nowadays it is mostly due to it needing extra effort to make, and it hurting pre-orders. If a game is relatively cheap and doesn't have a demo I can give it a free pass in some respects since they are not asking for much of an investment, and refunds are a thing now. But if a game is asking for a decent chunk of change AND doesn't have a demo, something is up. Especially if it is pushing pre-orders with shit like Season Passes and DLC.
It has only become possible now because steam controls digital content delivery.
Prior that you get the game via discs and you were fucked if the game is shitty and trying to get a refund from a store. It's especially difficult if you're outside the US.
That isn't a bad idea. Make throwaway accounts to try the game and refund, then buy it on your main account. Repeat as required.
That being said though if they tried that shit here in Australia I am pretty sure that they could be taken to court by the ACCC. It was part of the reason we even got refunds in the first place.
Proof of someone's refund privileges being revoked because they asked for refunds within the limit?
I think the actual point here is that you just don't want to throw down money for a game, and are pretending to be interested in purchasing.
I'm actually OK with this.
All the games I want to pirate are older games that I can't purchase from the developers anymore. They aren't affected by this.
Otherwise I'll just spend my money on a game I want, since I'm not a poorfag.
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.
But the devs have already been paid.
They're paid via salary with maybe a bonus on preorders and metacritic scores.
Besides, not only will it never last it's already shown preventing piracy does nothing to sales after the JC3 garbage.
My point is they dont know that, all they can tell is you are making a large amount of refunds and will assume you are up to no good
but dont take my word for it try it yourself
>Gee, why is this guy buying a bunch of short indie games and then refunding them over and over again?
>Oh, I see, he's speedrunning them and then refunding for free games
It's not like it'd be hard to notice.
I don't really buy that excuse. Demos can easily show the best part of an otherwise mediocre game to increase hype. I'm still mad about the Indigo Prophecy demo, but it still fucking worked.
Also, I just want to say Quake 3 and World in Conflict demos were damn good.
>tfw remembering old PC gamer
>used to get discs packed chock full of demos
>articles were good an honest
>a score of 90+ was rare as fuck
>the writers' GOTY were usually in the lower 80's ranges and the picked them apart ruthlessly between the praise
Only downside was like half of the mag was just a bunch of ads, but man I used to love that shit.
I stopped pirating games when I got a job because now I'd rather refund it instead of going through the hassle of pirating a game. Now if I am thinking of buying a game I read some reviews and watch a little bit of a playthrough and if I like what I see i will buy it. Just be a smart consumer and wait to buy games after they've been out a couple of weeks, it usually takes a bit of time until it is cracked anyway. I can't say I feel bad for people who only pirate games because they are pricks for not supporting developers that make good games. If you buy games not knowing about the product you're buying than you only have yourself to blame.
It will be funny to see what publishers blame bad PC sales on now.
Steam ver of mad max
Everything on high. The crack is extracting but it will take a long time to install. It's a big game. We'll see if there is a performance difference between Pirate and Denovo
>We get it little timmy, you don't want to buy games. There's no need to come on here and pretend you want to, though. We're all anonymous.
thanks for the won argument, ill be screencapping this win
Sometimes we gotta make sacrifices...
I tried 1280x800 and it was bit laggy
I tried 800x600 and it was better but still, for game like Just Cause you need silky smooth stable framerate.
I didn't even bother to try 640x480 but it would have been playable I guess...
>Euros think that you should be able to refund any product at any time for any reason whatsoever
I'm not gonna crawl through a bunch of forums/messageboards to find some Russian shit crying about his refunding rights being revoked because he was trying to game the system but considering the sheer number of people on Steam and how basically any time there is something to exploit, there will be a chunk of people exploiting it, I can only assume that some people have attempted to do what I just described and had their refund privileges revoked.
It is true though. Your assumption is that all games are inherently good. If you are a publisher who is forcing a game out the door early so you can meet some bullshit deadline instead of actually caring about the quality of your product, you don't want people to know how shit it is. Especially now with how big pre-ordering is as a practice.
Where as back in the days before the internet really took off you wanted to increase exposure as much as possible to increase your chance of sales. That now has the opposite effect now.
Yeah I used to have a subscription back in the day. I think I still have my old Dec 2000 issue with Duke on the cover, with the article about how DNF was only a month away from release. PC Gamer and PC Powerplay were fucking excellent for demos, patches, and utilities.
Boy I can't wait until everyone gets fucked by publishers relentlessly.
Want to try before you buy NO FUCK YOU GOYIM
>all this DRM started to begin with because of all you faggots pirating
>HA-HA I'LL PIRATE THE GAMES BECAUSE OF THIS SHIT THAT'LL SHOW 'EM
Loving this irony and excuses that you're doing it as some kind of 'justice' when you NEET faggots can't just admit you're too poor to buy games.
Good job supporting an industry you're supposed to love.
>pirates are the worst thing to happen to gaming
That's wrong but ok.
What about the excuse of this industry is getting so bad isn't worth supporting (excluding the few good games)?
Yeah people pirate games because it's free, but that doesn't mean people will suddenly want to buy those games if piracy is no longer an option.
Witcher 3 is proof that if a game is good people will buy it. it sold 2 million in the 6 first weeks on pc alone and it didnt have any DRM whatsoever. So instead of making a shitty game that no one wants to pay for make one thats worth buying.
I think your missing my point bud, I actually meant that Witcher 3 has no DRM at all and it selled like hotcakes regardless. Infact I bet alot of people pirated the game and liked it alot and bought it for that very reason. I think piracy actually helped Witcher 3 shift more copies.
>devs use denuvo
>game makes the same amount of money as it was expected to make had it not had the unbreakable DRM
Im not buying a single modern game I cant pirate. If I cant steal it, I just wont play it who gives a fuck. PC master race has a million things to do with their time, not playing MGSV or F4 (both pirate-able not my point) isnt going to kill me.
But I bought undertale after I pirated. I thought it was a
Fungame and that toby The Furry Enabler fox deserved my 10 bucks.
I swear this "piracy will end in x years" claim happens every 3 years
So something like that I imagine. Try and quietly ignore it. Which works if they don't talk up how they are preventing piracy before launch. But thankfully the internet always remembers, so they need to tread lightly or set themselves up for failure.
>pirate dark messiah ages ago
>out of things to play over last year's holiday season
>buy dark messiah
>have to torrent and crack it
thought I'd make up for pirating it, but then I lost them even more money doing it again
>/mu/ doesn't give a shit about piracy
>/tv/ doesn't give a shit about piracy
>/a/ doesn't give a shit about piracy
>/co/ doesn't give a shit about piraacy
>/v/ goes full autistic calling people scum
You dont lose them anything by pirating, anon. You purchased a game that didnt work, that means they as a developer failed to cater to your specific needs as a consumer. They cost them money (not that im saying they should be expected to cater to every PC frankenstein out there)
>all this DRM started to begin with because of all you faggots pirating
Biggest lie in the industry.
DRM is aimed at used-games, using piracy as a cover.
Publishers aren't stupid, they're well awaew that a person who wants to pirate WILL pirate no matter what, both on PC and console.
The real thorn in their side were used games, those were legal and took and ate a huge chunk of their profits because people would just re-sell a game once they were done with it.
That's what DRM is all about, killing used games, earning more money.
It's neo/v/. Not even 5 years ago we used to laugh at people who bought games. Reddit has taken over. I just wish there were somewhere else to go.
>Buy physical copy of Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
>Running windows XP
>Starforce DRM works
>Years later running Windows 7
>Starforce DRM does not function with Windows 7
>Ubisoft support solution is to suggest cracking the game.
>/a/ doesn't give a shit about piracy
Not only does /a/ not give a shit about piracy they suggest it over other methods because of how bad the legal shit is. Maybe exceptions with manga.
>Denuvo is most likely very expensive considering only AAA games have used it.
they will complain that is too expensive to develop games
and if they haven't to spend so much on anti-piracy thing would be better
you know, its piracy fault no matter what
What is funny is that used games are a non-issue on PC. They basically don't exist anymore. Yet it is still ignored as a valid market by a lot of AAA.
Then again I guess they also understand there is a lot more competition for the market and they can be undercut by cheap indie games offering a better return of fun investment for time and money which they don't want to compete against.
Honestly, used games is probably one of the only reasons to ever get a console. It's kind of funny that consoles have tried pushing no used games (or digital only) really hard current gen.
Like i give a fuck. any kind of antipiracy is just going to get broken and ill be able to enjoy these games anyway
>filthy PC pirates
bitch I do it on more than PC, I havent paid a red cent in over five years for a game. Fuck you.
They'll blame used games
They'll blame steam sales
They'll blame entitled gamers
If there's anything I've learned from the vidya industry it's that management NEVER takes responsibility for their fuckups.
>What is funny is that used games are a non-issue on PC. They basically don't exist anymore.
Because of DRM.
Also because corporate lobby spent millions of $$$ on reversing first-sale doctorine on computer software.
>antipiracy stops cracked games
>copy entire hard drive state that friend has
>can play all of his games without any issues on a dummy sparebox computer
>he doesn't realize i can still see his porn folder too
I never knew there were so many pictures of Minotaurs.
>If there's anything I've learned from the vidya industry it's that management NEVER takes responsibility for their fuckups.
What is great is that thanks to the internet and the rise and proliferation of social media, this sort of shit is getting harder and harder to hide and justify.
It really doesn't though. There aren't anti-piracy threads on /a/, and the only time you do see it is when people start shitposting on collectorfags. Which is a rare occurance in itself.
There's no general yes, but if you bother with any manga/ln thread, the YP/Viz shills practically have a 9-5 work hour schedule. It's really obvious given how persistent their copypasta is and how they ignore anything valid like whenever someone cites NGNL's inner city nigger tier localization.
That's a real theory that's easily seen. However whether or not post purchase rationalization lasts in the long term, I'd argue it's at best 50/50 given my experiences among friends at least.
On the other hand, there's buyer's remorse, which is also something Science says. What's your point? Cases of people who reverse their Buyer's Remorse is far lower than people who come to realize their own Post Purchase Rationalization.
No different than pirating on /v/. The majority in this thread still shits on DRM, it's just a vocal minority spamming the same shit over and over. /v/ just happens to be a much much bigger board, so it's more noticeable.
Well I tend to be more patient and buy PC games that are good optimized ports and are priced well.
I don't even bother pirating PC games anymore... just older console/handheld games from years past.
>thinking piracy actually affects sales
It is different though. No one except shills defend CR, some normal people actually defend anti-piracy here.
Shit if you knew nothing about CR except from what /a/ says about it you'd think they raped kittens.
Are you a newfag? Tell me how many vidya in the last 5 years have no cracked copies out there?
Then tell me how many licensed manga/ln can't be pirated and have their translations/scanlations shut down.
No matter how you look at it, anti-piracy is working better for /a/ stuff than vidya.
>On the other hand, there's buyer's remorse, which is also something Science says
Buyer's remorse isn't a cognative bias against a game. It's what leads to post purchase rationalization, because you're more likely to rationalize a bad purchase to avoid the remorse.
>the YP/Viz shills practically have a 9-5 work hour schedule
Can't argue with you there, but there's a difference between defending localization and going on and on about how pirating is killing the industry, how you need to support the industry, creating threads every day dedicated to this very subject and bringing it up in other threads where it's not even on topic.
Yeah that's true, but I was referring to effectiveness. For example Shieldbro is pretty popular, I'd argue as popular as your typical 70-80 metacritic game. You will never find the LN out there. Ever.
>Tell me how many vidya in the last 5 years have no cracked copies out there?
Currently it's only denovo shit (most of which is cracked over time), but some games never get pirated copies because no one gives a fuck about them.
As for /a/, the licenses are forgotten over time and/or they're uploaded elsewhere. The only trouble /a/ has with getting its content is getting people to translate/scan it.
Take OnePunch Man for example, batoto shut it down and UK took it off their site but new chapters are still regularly uploaded to threads.
I’d say that someone who just paid $60 for a middling game is often willing to talk about how much they like it rather than admit that they should have waited for some reviews before buying it. That’s just knowledge gained from decades of staring at message boards and seeing the cycle play out again and again and again. For as much as you get people out there talking about how "/v/ is jaded” "/v/ hates video games" or whatever, on the other side I’m seeing fanboy weirdos who pre-ordered a game six months ago and devoted hours of time on /v/ getting “hyped.” The last thing anyone on any board ever wants to do is say that they were wrong. So instead they lash out in our direction or claim that we’re "hipsters" whatever that means. That’s fine, everyone likes to shoot the messenger and all that. Maybe those sorts of people could go find some marketing drone YouTube channels who won’t rain on their little hype parade or something. Augment your pre-order today!
You got me there, I think it's just a matter of the shills on /a/ being more clever about it. It's certainly doing a better job considering how many people signed up for Fakku. But then again, it is porn.
>the licenses are forgotten over time and/or they're uploaded elsewhere.
Really? I don't recall this for most licensed series aside from Viz/CR dumps. I know this is probably super biased cause it's /m/ shit, but look at Gundam: The Origin. Any panda site that hosts that would probably get huge traffic since it's available fucking nowhere but here we are years later.
>I’d say that someone who just paid $60 for a middling game is often willing to talk about how much they like it rather than admit that they should have waited for some reviews before buying it
It's true, while it's not a particularly high price it's still several hours work. Worst case scenario you spent about 7-8 hours working to get a 4 hour game that's pretty garbage.
potato is run by scummy SJW feminists who would bounce "muhsoggynist" mangas from the site while leaving fujoshi-approved fanservice stuff up because I REALLY THINK MY DAUGHTER CAN HANDLE YAOI
and then they went registration-only so they'll get more google adbux. fuck them; just use your generic chinese manga streaming site if you don't want to follow breadcrumbs back to the scanlation group.
One Piece has been banned from batoto for a while (they need to do what they need to do, can't blame them).
Doesn't mean that MangaPanda/Stream/every other site stopped uploading it.
I guess it really depends how popular the series is and how much the translators like it but generally if you look around you'll probably find it (assuming it's scanned/translated of course).
The cycle is eternal.
Shitposting and feigned retardation for reactions on /v/ is just something that has gotten worse in recent years.
That was my point. /a/ shit has a lot more unscanned stuff even if it's available in English. I actually lack the knowledge to understand why Panda sites that give no fucks about the law to the point that even when their insiders get caught on the news, don't just buy a copy then upload it. It's literally exclusive to them, cause stuff like Batoto can't possibly have the balls to aggregate, same with Stream. How many competitors does the Panda family even have? They own like 80% of the network right now.
It'd be like a trivial sum to get some big name exclusives.
It happens more on /v/ because we have the highest population of crossboard shitposters and newfriends than any other board next to /b/. That's why /v/ is the easiest board to bait, it's like the tutorial board for trolling.
And funny enough steam did more damage to piracy than the other three could ever hope to. Not by making piracy more difficult
it's actually trivially easy to crack in comparison to say, tages[,/spoiler], but by making buying games so easy and convinient that most people don't even bother pirating their games.
Never underestimate the amount people are willing to pay for porn, even if they can easily get it for free. I'd wager companies like dlsite and the Sakura developers owe a good chunk of their buisness to people on /a/ and /v/ buying their shit.
I don't know why either, they probably just live in a good area for this shit or have very difficult to find servers considering how their website was named to be the receiver of the uploaded content.
Well the fact that you personally don't buy games on Steam really diminishes the damage steam did to piracy. I'm sure you and any like you really offset the rise of the Steam platform. Oh wait no, your meager resistance is meaningless. Funny how that works.
Would you honestly have bought those games if they were using Securom, Starforce, and Denuvo instead? Because that's is really the only alternative if you want companies to feel comfortable enough to keep making games for PC.
As a pirate Steam has been more of a blessing than a burden, because it gives companies a (false) sense of security while using a DRM scheme that is trivial to crack
Yes because then can just download a nocd exe. Steam requires me to not only install steam, buy type in my credit card info, make an account, deal with gaben's tantrums that cause it to go down all the time and let steam spy on my computer. Pirating is easier than buying games, cheaper, and has less bugs to fix. It's a fucking joke.
Yeah we'll leave out porn I guess. Though it feels like /a/ has taken far more damage than /v/ over the years. I mean if you think about it, vidya usually has the shittier localizations on average, but what game in the last 5 years comes close to the monstrosity that was NGNL by YP? You google that shit and tell me what game is at that level.
Not him, and I use steam though not for all my games, but any toasterfag can tell you it still takes a chunk of performance out of your PC. For people with up to date gaming rigs, this is probably not a concern but if you care then well yeah.
I would even be fine with it if I could turn the god damn thing off afterwards. But no, it's not that convenient.
If GOG had even half the library Steam does, oh man.
>Yes because then can just download a nocd exe
I'm not talking about CD-keys here, I'm talking about full blown DRM cancer that require heavy reverse engineering and half the time don't actually remove said DRM cancer from the "cracked" build of the game.
You don't have to use Steam either if you just want to pirate steamworks games. You can just download them with cracked .dlls just like any nocd exe. It's been a long time since I've pirated a game that required me to emulate steam in order to actually play it.
Most games at that level never actaully get localizations or see the light of day in the west
>I'm not talking about CD-keys here,
Copies with secure rom removed could still be played online when bought. Not the case with Steam's DRM. Steam is cancer and it cannot be stopped. My PC is solely used for emulation and piracy. Buying a PC game is a waste of time and money in 2015. It's a shame, but it's the truth. The pirated copies have less issues and even download faster. They're also smaller in file size because pirates know how to compress files properly.
Even before the digital age, hasn't consoles proved piracy is what sells to a certain extent? SNES was the leading console of it's generation destroying SEGA Genesis/Saturn/etc cause you had one cartridge contain fucking 500 games. What happened next? Oh N64 can't be pirated, but what about the PS1? Oh damn. PS2? Pretty sure it went the same way.
>implying denuvo will be uncrackable forever and not just a long time
>implying every game will use denuvo
Even then, PS3, 360, Wii U, and 3DS emulators are all making progress so in a few years we'll have a ton of new things to emulate
People crack for the fun of it. Actually the piracy is nothing but a sideeffect to that.
It's comparable to why people run marathons. They don't really get anything out of it other than knowing they overcame the difficulties and won against the others.
>Steam requires me to not only install steam
Pirating requires you to install, crack and categorize every game individually. You also have to keep up with any updates yourself and download them manually instead of having it all automated by steam.
>type in my credit card info
It's not a requirement. You can simply stock up on prepaid cards if it bothers you.
>deal with gaben's tantrums that cause it to go down all the time
It very rarely goes down though.
>let steam spy on my computer
Is there any evidence of steam ever spying on people's computers? I remember Origin got shit on a lot back when it used to.
>Pirating is easier than buying games
Both are so easy a caveman could do it, but pirating takes more time and effort.
Stealing something is cheaper than paying for it? Color me surprised.
>has less bugs to fix
Stop talking out of your ass. I know you probably have a few cherrypicked examples, but on a hole, this point is bullshit and you know it.
Same thing that happened to movies happened to games.
>cost to produce goes up
>people steal instead of pay you
>only people with morals and people too dumb to steal from you still pay you
>forced to produce for lowest common denominator and avoid taking risks
It's common sense, I can't teach you it.
>You also have to keep up with any updates yourself and download them manually instead of having it all automated by steam.
Including any updates that break or otherwise neuter your game, with little recourse since Steam doesn't allow you to rollback to a previous version nor does their refund policy make any extensions for bad updates of games you've owned for more than 2 weeks. With piracy I can just download every version of the game that has been archived, or "stolen" if we're using your language.
Also it's "on the whole", not "on a hole". And he's right about that one point. Pirated copies tend to be much more usable than "legit" ones with more restrictions, most notably forced logins or mandatory online checks.
Valve are immune to criticism. Valvedrones are cancer and PC gaming is long since dead. Time to move on.
>piracy is killing games!
>ask for source
>Here's [correlation=causation], it's just common sense!
But you're right, pirates are assholes that didn't spend $10 for a 200m movie in which 175m went straight into nepotism and the rest into actual production.
Remember Life of Pi? The studio that made the CGI (aka, the whole movie) went bankrupt. But hey, I'm sure that the producers did a good job with the budget
>implying all pirates have ethics
No, you're a bunch of scumbag thieves stop pretending that you're some kind of modern day Robin hoods sticking it to the man. You're ruining gaming and entertainment in general you cockwads.
>I knew saying something retarded would trigger one of your autists
>internet piracy increased movie production costs and forced them to produce for mass market and avoid taking risks
Piracy is the only thing keeping obscure shit alive. For anyone who likes halfway obscure shit, good luck finding those movies on netflix/music on itunes or at the store. They exclusively carry the most mainstream stuff available. In the case of music, the only places that carry an eclectic selection are record stores, so you need to go out and invest in a record player in order to make us of it.
Meanwhile I can find almost any movie ever produced by just searching the databases of a few different file sharing sources.
It's gotten to the point you're screwing yourself if you don't pirate. Not just for video games and movies either. iTunes songs are lower bitrate than what you could find if you pirate.
Yes those extremely rare cases really make it worth it.
>With piracy I can just download every version of the game that has been archived
Assuming the game is popular enough to even have its updates available. Assuming even if those updates are available, that there will be sufficient seeders.
>or "stolen" if we're using your language.
You see, this is why I call you autists.
>Also it's "on the whole", not "on a hole".
Oy vey. Hopefully steam isn't spying on my recent internet history.
>Pirated copies tend to be much more usable than "legit" ones with more restrictions, most notably forced logins or mandatory online checks.
Except they don't. The vast majority of games simply require you to click play and they work. You are very disingenuously using fringe cases to represent the majority of games when they don't.
>Assuming the game is popular enough to even have its updates available. Assuming even if those updates are available, that there will be sufficient seeders.
It's called private trackers, pretty much anyone who cares enough about vidya will have multiple sources for downloading them. So long as there is a scene release, those updates will be available to download. They will never disappear if they are present on millions of consumer PC's ready to get uploaded, DRM free for anyone to use. Pro tip: just because a torrent is dead doesn't mean the files are gone and no one has it any longer.
Another Pro tip: the Scene doesn't exist and meant to let people get stuff for free. It exists for archival purposes. That's why there are standards about releases.
Companies aren't capable of protecting anything and cannot be trusted to. Fucking KONAMI lost all the source code for the Silent Hill games. They probably threw out the archives because of lack of space or some bullshit. If it wasn't for piracy fat chance of you ever getting to play a proper HD version of them. Companies only care about costs. If they go their property goes with them or often get lost during transitions. It's never good to have all your eggs in one basket.
>You see, this is why I call you autists.
Because you spout nonsense that is very clearly wrong and get upset when people rightuflly call you out on it. You're in no positioin to accuse anyone of being disingenous or autistic.
>Oy vey. Hopefully steam isn't spying on my recent internet history.
There's no reason to be upset.
>Except they don't. The vast majority of games simply require you to click play and they work.
The vast majority of steam games require you to be logged in to actually play them, even when using offline mode. And mandatory online DRM is nowhere near as extremely rare or fringe as you're claiming. You're the one being disingenous by disregarding every example as "fringe" when it inconveniences your argument
Thank you for agreeing with me. Yes, the updates will only be available if they were popular enough to warrant a release. They wont ever disappear, but if nobody is seeding them, then that doesn't help me if I'm trying to circumvent steam for being inconvenient. Neither is signing up an account for a private tracker and maintaining a decent upload ratio.
I was never arguing against the archival of games, but rather anon's false arguments against steam. In fact I praised pirating in a Denovo thread yesterday, as the only reason I was able to play Fable 3. Unfortunately it was just as shitty a game as I remember it being.
>There's no reason to be upset.
I was making light of the situation. I was joking about you being autistic as well, but maybe I wasn't so far off.
>The vast majority of steam games require you to be logged in to actually play them, even when using offline mode.
How does that make them less usable? Is having steam running in the background really so cumbersome for you?
>And mandatory online DRM is nowhere near as extremely rare or fringe as you're claiming
It absolutely is.
>piracy is over! t-take that pcucks ;_;
>second paragraph literally says piracy can never be stopped
Sonyggers are this delusional
>Is having steam running in the background really so cumbersome for you?
Not him but pretty much any genuine toasterfag will tell you that's the case, especially if the game you are playing happens to be already pushing your rig to the limits. You're not about to go elitist on me are you?
I suffered on a toaster for 2 years. It was a shitty laptop with a quad core CPU, 4GB of RAM and integrated graphics, yet Steam was never a deciding factor in whether or not I could run a game. I think you overstate its effects.
You didn't min/max your settings then or tried the right games. Something basic like Skyrim easily has such possibilities regardless of what you use so long as you keep modding it.
If you don't wanna believe me go Google it. People complain about it all the time, they just get shut down by people who don't have it happen to them.
Want to know how to stop a damn good majority of pirates? HAVE A DEMO OR TIMED GAMEPLAY!
Almost every game I pirated I bought with the exception of every Call of Duty past MW2, Bioshock Infinite, and Thief 2014.
I did min/max and I tried a large slice of games, including Skyrim. I was at a point where I had to pirate every game beforehand to see if I could even run it and then I would buy it after I had tested it and min/maxed it.
I encountered no radical change in performance on the pirated or steam copies.
>lords of the fallen. 9 hours average play time. 180,000 players with, at the time, a 9% rate of ssd ownership. thats 16,000 fried ssd`s, since the original claim was 2 gigs a second read/write, which would flop your average ssd in 6 hours.
What is your point here? The average playtime of 180000 players is 9 hours, it's entirely feasibly that 1/11th of them have a max of 6 hours played.
I mean, do you even understand how averages work?
>alternative is stealing
>if I don't agree with the price of a diamond ring I can just steal it
>this is what mustard race actually believes
absolutely heretical 2bqhwyf (to be quite honest with you family)
Who cares? These analogies are retarded
>diamond ring is expensive at store
>but there's a free one exactly like it in a box outside that anybody can have unlimited amounts of if they want
Didn't Denuvo developers say themselves that Denuvo is not a permanent solution and that every game gets cracked sooner or later, making Denuvo a tool to 'encourage' potential pirates into buying the games?
I'm pretty sure Gaimon himself established that piracy is just a public library that doesn't run under the modern jew system where they charge you every time you borrow a book.
And he dared to try his theory out with his own works, resulting in, you guessed it, success. Oh and some Japanese comic artist also started doing it too, he's pretty famous if you're into /a/ shit and it's doing just fine.
It makes me wonder if the newer generations really never knew about actual public facilities since now everyone charges you, even public toilet paper.
>It makes me wonder if the newer generations really never knew about actual public facilities since now everyone charges you, even public toilet paper.
... and again I'm stunned that people even have the time to fuck around with pirating games.
Fuck that. And the games new age piracy protects ("oh look, delicious hardware, om nom nom!...")
Don't forget that devs will get jewed not only by their publishers but also by Denuvo. It's not free.
I'm just telling you man, those fucking kids that buy everything and spend money like water? It's not purely because their parents were retarded. Otherwise I don't think it'd be on such a large scale.
Just imagine the situation 40 years from now. Better bottle up your oxygen while you can.
I posted it earlier in the thread, but here is the Neil Gaimon video you are thinking of;
Took some real balls to not only try it but also to admit that he was wrong given he used to lecture against this sort of thing.
Can't even claim it's a fringe case. Akamatsu did it with his manga, and everyone knows how big chinese cartoons are in Japan. Literally can't say shit, it's just a matter of whether or not you do it.
Actually, even /v/ would know about OPM, and it's technically free online if you can read Japanese. I don't think anyone here is gonna claim OPM is not a success right? RIGHT?
Only difference is that Japanese are willing to feign retardation in order to be hypocrites about trying to min/max both models for maximum jew, while the west actually tries real hard to brainwash consumers. I can't really tell which is worse.
Web Novel->Light Novel model is pretty much this, only slightly different in that the published version can have a varying range of changes, ranging from very little to enormous amounts. It however, is still a 'full-fledged demo' so to speak.
Even Gook comic LMS author allowed the first 20 volumes, not chapters, volumes to be freely put out. 20 volumes. What game even has 20 volumes worth of story telling?
Even if it anecdotal I can attest to word of mouth from games being freely acquired ending up in sales. I have pirated shit in the past, endorsed the game when asked by a friend that only buys due to moral reasons, and he has ended up purchasing due to my feedback.
And having worked in customer service and actually done reviews of Net Promoter Scores I understand how that system works, and if your product is good exposure ends up converting sales.
I mean hell that is effectively what Demos were. Free previews of the final product. And you would get sales if your shit was good. However a lot of games just aren't, or aren't worth their asking price, so they don't get the sales they want. Yet later when the price comes down, they see a lot of sales.
It is just willful ignorance on the part of publishers, or just a means of passing the buck when they didn't manage the sales they planned. Stopping piracy would only hurt them in the long run since it means one less excuse for them to use.
Well I'll be honest, if I were in their position, I'd do the same thing so long as I could pass the buck long enough to make enough to retire after shit hits the fan. That has to be Kotick's strategy right? No way he would bank all his money on investing into Activision thinking it's unsinkable.
No, but ME3 for most people, including the Biodrones on their BSN forums aka their most vehement defenders and loyalists, still made a massive bitch fest at the ending and killed of pretty much whatever remaining momentum Bioware had after DA2/ME2. That was why there were absolutely no expectations for DA:I which well lead to those amazing sales figures you now see.
You might think to yourself, well it's only the ending, but for single player games, especially RPGs that sell themselves on choices mattering/consequences/multiple endings, the ending is technically your the cake you are making the whole trilogy. And it turned out to be shit.
Because a lot of the allure of the first game which hooked people, was the promise/premise that their choices would keep mattering and play into future sequels. This naturally didn't happen very well in 2, but everyone still had faith since it was a trilogy and it's the final ending that matters and overlooked the 2nd claiming the 2nd episode of any trilogy is always the most shit.
It's also why DA:I wasn't called DA3, but then again DA2 was so terrible that even without ME3 I doubt DA:I would dare use 3.
This impacts multiplayer focused games like cawadooty, destiny, etc a lot less, but you should know those have their own problems for the demo model. It's a multiplayer game after all.
Certain devs during the demo era were clever enough to pitch all their resources into the demo portion, and the rest would be lack luster and not even complete. The funny thing is this applied to both single player and multiplayer, a great example being the Conan MMO where everyone praised the starting town because it was literally 10x better than the next best place and was fully voiced down to the minor npcs.
You can imagine the horror of those subscribers when for the next year or two all they see is a barren wasteland after they hit 20 with silent npcs and lots and lots of kill/fetch quests.
You know after Kotick was shown to be right I am thinking of him less as the devil's mentor and more of a ruthless businessman these days. I imagine that is just doing what needs to be done to make money for the investors. Granted the way he seems to do it, and how his dream business would be setup seems abhorrent, but in the end I suppose it is working.
If only his business acumen could be tempered with someone else's real passion for the hobby things might actually be a lot better. But I agree that he probably has an exit strategy up his sleeve. Not that he will need to deploy it until things like CoD stop making money. Which may just be never.
Wasn't there a game that came out in Fall 2015 that had Denuvo that got blown wide open? I remember it taking like a week.
Despite the lessons that were learned from the Quake era in regards to making promises you can't keep, I think that marketing has reached a point where devs are basically being held by the monetary balls to make those promises. You can't just try and make something whilst underselling its features anymore. So that people are pleasantly surprised when you over deliver, and haven't broken promises.
Then again I guess that is part of the problem of how you get financial backing. You have to make those promises to someone, and that someone may decide to use that in marketing. Sort of a catch-22.
Why would you think this would cause them to hire competent writers? The only thing that'd do that is if the average consumer noticed it's shit and stopped buying it, sadly this doesn't seem to be happening.
Vidya games back then were all about taking risks. For every success there were dozens that never came to light. Nowadays the industry is trying to make it so everyone at least gets to put out their product, but as a result it's no longer a 'hand crafted art' so to speak and is more like a conveyor belt with developers adding a little personal touch after assembly.
This is of course, done for all sorts of reasons, both due to greed, stability, and also efficiency. Probably many more.
But the moment you could be a game developer working 9-5, get paid a fixed salary not counting bonuses, the urgency just disappeared.
Remember Blizzard? Those games weren't made from a financially stable company that could have survived if their games didn't sell.
Know what company actually had to take a risk and got rewarded for it? Larian. Oh and look at that, no DRM. Just pure credibility staking their name on Kickstarter. It's still a gamble for D:OS2, but at least they got the balls to gamble cause after all if D:OS2 flops chances are they aren't going to get much backing the next time.
That sheer difference in approach easily changes how games pop out, though I'm not sure how Witcher / CDProjekt categorizes itself. I mean we all know they were poor as fuck squatting away with some track suits, but I don't know how it was for 3.
Yeah things have really changed. And even making quality products still didn't necessarily keep you in business if you were niche. Poor SSI and Microprose. Then again almost everything back then was done in a AAA manner. Indies weren't really a proper thing you could make money from.
And now that they are, and are an arguably decent alternative to AAA, it is sad how that market has become corrupted by nepotism and entitlement from people whose content is just plain lacking. Especially since it mimics the mentality of the AAAs in many respects.
Thankfully more and more tools are becoming available for people that just genuinely want to make decent games. Sooner or later there will hopefully be another crash, or a purge, and all the dead weight will be weeded out.
I am just getting old and jaded by the 'industry'. I want it to be a hobby again.
In the biggest torrent tracker of my country, which also has the fastest internet btw (Lithuania), the title page of the /v section of torrents says- download, install, play. If you like it-buy it!
I also believe some famous cracker said that.
I can only agree.
Most of the PC master race (part of which I am) arguments that defend piracy are the same as the arguments of some 2nd world country excuses, which in the end result in the ''excuses''. Workers of some factory get paid shit, steal whatever they can from the factory, so the owner loses a lot of money, thus they get paid shit. Same here- "the game is not worth my money, or even worse- ''why would you pay if you can steal''- steals it, plays it for hundreds of hours, then, ''miraculously'' the studio closes in a few years'' or just plainly stops taking pc as a platform seriously.
He thinks that devs are getting paid for their work on videogames HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
You really should get a job and read up on capitalism.
Being an employee, we're talking about a standard position in the development process, will net you an average paycheck with a ton of overtime, stress and 0% gratitude and will put a 90-100% stop to all your activities except the development of the game.
If you think stopping piracy will change the relationship between shareholders, publishers and developers you need to wake up and smell the shit.
It's just that times are changing much faster in the past 10-20 years than they have in the last 100, possibly more. And it's continuing in almost every aspect at this rate. Technology, population, trend cycles, etc etc.
on the other hand we still have studios that make not that bad AA games like endless legend, bannerlord and risen etc.
It's not all that bad. We need AA rebirth. Engines are dirt cheap right now, i think we will see some progress in next couple years.
It happens once - coincidence
It happens two times - just coincidence guys
three times - c'mon guys it's coincidence
four times - c'mon guys, what are you, creationists?! coincidence is scientifically supported guys!
five times - guys...guys ?
they are trying to shield product they have no confidence with
it has reverse effect, people that spent money complain the loudest, not to mention this protection costs decent money
it's going out the windows when marketing and PR guys turn their gears and realize what a black hole it is
Those people wouldn't have paid for it even if they had no option. They would just play something else. A very trivial minority would actually somehow have been hooked hard enough to buy it.
And if they couldn't pirate it, why would these stingy people ever risk buying a game just to try it? Try explaining that. While yes, you make a point that many do put in hundreds of hours, if they didn't end up supporting the company out of respect, it's much more likely they wouldn't have bought it either way without the means to play it whole.
It's just that simple. Imagine playing an MMO, you find a good exploit spot for farming mats. It's the best exploit spot out of like 100. Then it gets fixed. Do you come back to this spot that's fixed? No. You don't, you go to another exploit spot and start farming. If that spot wasn't even exploitable, you wouldn't have even given it the time of day to begin with. And so the cycle repeats itself. Exploiters never had the intention of playing fair. But unlike an MMO, the pirates are rarely part of the potential customer cycle, especially the ones from 3rd world countries and shit.
It's only those that have weak resistance to impulsive buying that would spend money if their game got taken away in the middle just to continue. Kinda like cigarettes, where if their friends gave it to them for free, but later didn't, they would go and buy their own.
Yeah, there's plenty of addicts out there. But they are by no means the majority. Do the majority of the world smoke cigs? I believe the majority of the world can't even afford cigarettes on their budget, though some force it in anyways and sacrifice basic necessities.
Well the times are different now. Apart from some minor new studios, most of the decent franchises are set. I will tell you this- I have not pirated a single game since 2013. I own every assassins creed until black flag (including it). Yet somehow I did not need or feel like buying the newest installments. I bought wolfenstein new order, alien isolation, just cause 3, gta V, far cry 4, witcher 3 and fallout 4 in these years, and zero regret do I have.
I mean like yeah, I live in the former soviet union, so it's harder to convince somebody to buy a 60 euro game when 500 euros is an average salary, so things like steam are saviors, and nevertheless, a person who spends his nights out drinking 3-5 euro per pint beer will not get together 30 euros for a winter sale to get witcher 3. Well it all depends on the person's life as well. I do not have enough free time to fuck my pc and my time with pirating, so I just buy whatever I want (luckily I have enough money to do that).
>piracy promote sales I tell you!
Holy shit, the lengths welfare faggots go to justify their stealing is just absurd.
>these people thinking denuvo will actually stop pirating
I'm not pirate myself but piracy is always going to be there. Just like crime. You can reduce it, you can control it, but you cannot stop it.
Also note, Denuvo is NOT cheap. It's not cheap at all. In fact only big companies like Square Enix and Bioware have been using it. So I doubt it becoming mainstream unless they lower the price of it.
That's what I mean, the current pirates are the ones that are vastly the types that can't or won't pay no matter what anyways. Plus for every 2 people who doesn't pay, there's one guy with a huge library of games they barely invested time in just off steam sales. And in fact, he's never gonna play most of them. You should know people that fit this description. They are all over the place.
Hell you might have even leeched from them with family sharing. I know I share with some of my friends so we get different single player games on our accounts to swap and shit. But that kind of thing almost didn't exist back a decade ago. Games weren't that damn cheap. Just the bus fare and time spent to sell and buy used games is already your money's worth, let alone if you actually go by car.
>>nobody said this
when hl2 came out steam wasn't even acting as drm.
the steam_api calls back then didn't even try to prevent theirselves from being emulated. even VAC was easily patched.
the point at which people referred to steam as DRM was well after HL2 was released, when valve actually made an attempt to strengthen the steam_api integration and make it harder to crack VAC.
of course, that still failed, but to say that it never happened would be incorrect.
Steam used to eat up 250-300MB of RAM at a time when having 2-4GB total was pretty normal. It also used to randomly start going through a lot of hard drive activity for no reason, and only restarting it would make it stop.
It's only in recent times (last two years) that they decided to make it less shit.
Yeah we know that. That's why 90% of the thread is bashing it. It's just hijacking. You wouldn't want these shilling faggots to actually keep their jobs down the line would you? They aren't even entertaining.
Denuvo paid out 3DM. They also paid out other groups.
That's why so many of them didn't bother to work on things if "someone else was already doing it".
This has never been the mentality in the past. Quite a few games have releases from multiple groups.
Denuvo just has a fuck load of money to waste on bribing idiot chinks and ruskies into delaying their releases or straight up just binning them.
Yeah, I had trouble managing my buys when I got into masterrace after owning an xbox360 since launch. I pirated on xbox at first because I was a poor teen, and then because there was no other option- for some reason xbox and psn don't accept my bank cards (despite them being from Swedish banks). So there are tons of games I will probably never play, like the collection of Hitman games.
It still uses up like 100+ mb last I checked if you account for all 4 of the Steam processes, but the random hard drive activity did get fixed. I do admit I am on a 2gb dinosaur toaster.
Somebody should draw denuvo-tan. This is getting adorably cute
>B-but my new version will surely show you!
>Just w-wait 2 more years and I will win over those bad pirates.
>I have been developed by a team of proffesionals over a long period of time.
>Its not my fault few chinks cracked my games in a week!
Have you seen the prices on dreamcast/psp and their games? Are you trying to imply they even had any equivalent to Steam? Are you implying Japan doesn't price according to how Otakus and NEETs overspend going 100+ just for the standard copy of the new monster hunter even back 10 years ago?
Might as well take some random ass sample like Australia's vidya industry before Steam came along. Oh yeah that totally would show us!
There's a reason DLsite is hot shit in Japan. It's like the GOG for Jaapn, except it's only for porn. Let's not even get into China, their biggest platform for selling shit literally started as pure concentrated bootleg.
Context is important here. Also in no way did the Sega Dreamcast outsell the PS1/2 in units, and PS1/2 games were just as easy to pirate.
PSP was so obvious it was hilarious. Literally trying to tap into a) the mobile market that was never used to paying in ranges of $60 for games and b) kids who rely on their parents. What did they fucking think was gonna happen when it was so easy to crack that even middle schoolers could do it?
Denuvo has never made claims that they'll "end
This shit is just being blown out of proportion due to idiots listening to things they don't understand, 3DM being arrogant and torrentfreak being a general shill for things piracy.
Denuvo has only ever claimed that they can 3 months of protection (that's what the SLA is), which is enough for publishers to make their money back as the first 3 months are where most lifetime sales are going to happen.
3DM stating that piracy will be gone in 2 years is also overstating the situation, it won't be, 3DM might not be releasing any more crack, but others will (more the the point, 3DM's denuvo cracks are the worst out there)
Both sides are getting their knickers in a twist, for nothing - as nothing's changed - DMR will *ALWAYS* be broken, Denuvo knows that, publishers know that.
Denuvo does offer protection though and it's actually quite valuable protection at that.
Denuvo is ultimately a good thing, no matter what 3DM says and piracy will always be around no matter what the buydrones will have you believe.
>>actually trying to pretend one of the core problems they had with the new Batman game wasn't that Denuvo was doing so many reads on the non-SSD hard-drives that the game was becoming unplayable for customers.
Not fooling anyone. Look at the patch notes for their fix on Steam. Look at the size of the game world. Now explain to me on a technical stand-point how such a game would ever need hard-drive reads so frequently.
It was the shitty DRM and everyone knows it.
So for Denuvo-tan:
- The crackers should be 'attacking' her somehow, failing every time, but weakening her each time.
- Eventually she'll grow too weak and 'die'
- Just before she dies she should say something like 'did i do good pap-ea?' to which pap-ea should reply something along the lines of 'well enough, thankyou'
- then the pirates will and do whatever.
It blows my mind that Microsoft propaganda about a SEGA console has survived this long. Everyone will tell you that the Dreamcast failed because SEGA itself was already dead in every regard
>hemorrhaging money on R&D of previous generation iterations
>bad reputation with the Saturn
>no dev or third party interest as a result
>dumping more money into peripheral R&D
>dumping more money into internet services and development
I'm not saying they were wrong to try and support their previous userbase or to not spend money on development and support for their new console but they were just straight up out of money and had no external support whatsoever. They even made right on their notoriously bad SDKs with the Dreamcast, it's so good that people are developing for it even today.
The "piracy killed the Dreamcast" is the biggest joke I've ever seen, how many people do you know that owned both a PC capable of writing CDs with high speed internet and a Dreamcast when it was still being sold. Not to mention all the GDROM stuff wasen't even cracked open for real until near end of life, the process is as simple as burning a disc now, it was not always that way, some games were not even possible to copy and play back then due to disc sizes. It cost more to get all the equipment to pirate than it did to buy the games, it was anything but widespread.
Meanwhile Microsoft used it as a convincing argument to DC publishers to migrate to Xbox which got softmoded easily by everyone.
More like they just walk in and take what they were after, and she is powerless to stop it. You could have her changing the lock on a chest each time, with her being sure that THIS time it will work.
Then eventually people stop giving her things to look after. And she will eventually have to go wherever unwanted DRMs go. She could meet SecuROM-tan and Starforce-tan there.
>Meanwhile Microsoft used it as a convincing argument to DC publishers
Except that's bullshit.
DC was already dead BEFORE the Xbox was released, even SEGA themselves published games for Xbox.
Peter Moore was the head of SEGA of America, he pulled the plug on the Dreamcast in the west personally, it was his decision.
He was also the head of Xbox division until he left for EASPORTS.
It sounds like you're just a butmad console fanatic who really wants to hate on Microsoft at any possible instant, if i had to guess, I'd say you currently own a PS4.
That adds to my point you dingus, how would they proclaim something killed the DC if it wasn't already dead?
>It sounds like you're just a butmad console fanatic who really wants to hate on Microsoft at any possible instant, if i had to guess, I'd say you currently own a PS4.
Not that it matters and you wouldn't beleive me anyway but I've been a lifetime Windows user, I own an Xbox, and and Xbox 360. I don't own any current gen consoles but if I did it would be the PS4, I just don't see the need for either current gen console currently but that's besides the point entirely, it has nothing to do with what I said and is about me specifically.
>claims Microsoft propaganda
>I claim this was never the case
>You claim you had the same argument
DC didn't stop getting games because of 'microsoft propaganda' it didn't get games because it had an incredibly low install base and then SEGA stopped making the hardware, preventing the install base from ever growing.
There is no propaganda except for in your mind.
Instead of being goofy about it why don't you ask me to clarify what you're confused about. To reiterate, the DC failed because SEGA itself was dying, it had nothing to do with piracy. "Piracy killed the DC" is bullshit and it was spread around by MS. What part are you confused about?
>Dev getting paid for their work and not getting their shit stolen
Dev getting paid $ for a game by publisher
Publisher selling said game he did not actually made and making $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
They were boasting to publishers about their security features like their encrypted disks, the ability to patch the dashboard itself, etc., they regularly pointed to the Dreamcast to demonstrate this is a "real problem" and why people should choose the Xbox over competing platforms.
While I don't know, Moore himself may be the reason since he was involved with both SoA and MS.
This exact thing is what third party vendors like Denuvo do now to convince people to use their middleware, I think this thread is a good example of that, this has always been a thing but the Dreamcast one in particular is always blown out of proportion.
They get interwebs pointz.
To some, that's all that matters. It also places them very high in the hacker food chain. And guarantees them a high lucrative job at security should they want it.
Denuvo is basically that --- They are all ex-scene crackers turned security developers. They only thing that can stump a cracker is someone who already knows his methods.
Denuvo does exactly that, it abuses bugs and exploits in certain debuggers to crash them and make reverse-engineering a nightmare.