Have you ever wondered how to find out if someone is a true Souls fans or just a tryhard (like 99% of this board?) It's actually really easy. Just ask them this one question:
>Do dragons have souls?
The answer directly corresponds to whether you truly understand Dark Souls or not.
I'd say no.
Souls once belong to people who have gone hollow.
I've never seen a hollow dragon. I know there are a few Undead Dragon's but that isn't the same as being hollow. Only people who once were human/humanoid have souls.
I've only played DaS1.
Dark Souls 1 is literally one of my favorite games ever.
I don't know shit about the lore, I've only played DeS and DS2 for little at a friends house. Never tried Bloodborne.
I've never actually used a pyromancy, spell other than some shitty heal on an alt once, or whatever other mystical voodoo their is.
Only beaten it once.
Am I not a true fan, /v/?
Define "Dragon". We know the the Ancient Dragon was likely but a construct, which is why we get a Giant Soul from it. The other things flying around are Wyverns, so even though they have souls, I can't say for sure whether that means yes or no, since one of the wyverns is said to be a dragon.
I didn't play the DLC though, but the answer is yes is Sinh drops a soul.
As a guy with a purely scientific, non-religious background, I was asked in a discussion at a party what separated a dead man from one that was alive,
i.e. at what moment does someone become "dead"?
Medically death has several definitions - a clinical one as assessed by a clinician, or can be assessed via imaging (e.g. no FDG uptake on brain perfusion scans).
However, what is the threshold of death? What actually changes so that occurs?
It was an interesting debate.
one thing that's always eluded me, is it a singular soul that you obtain from killing an enemy and it has a certain quality value that you absorb or is it a collective of souls that the enemy has taken from every single other creature it has killed?
You're a fucking idiot. Aldia is the scholar of the first sin and is inherently linked to the flame which transformed him into some sort of tree hybrid creature. The ancient dragon is an artificial construct. Play the DLC before you spout at your ignorant bullshit.
When making alts for pvp I generally go in odd directions like that. I've been surprise killed by the dragon flying in at the undead burg for the first time when I forgot to activate him more than once.
The big top-dog Stone Dragons didn't have souls.
All the other lowly dragons do, as demonstrated by Sinh.
The Ancient Dragon is an artificial creature created from the Soul of a Giant.
which part are you talking about?
if its the bit with Sinh and Yorgh, Sinh was sleeping and Yorgh wanted to be a cool guy and kill the big scary dragon that was sleeping, he punctured the poison pouch in Sinh and fucked the entire city.
Sinh was forever sleeping and they built a city around him for worship.
A bunch of dick dragon killers came into the city led by Yorgh and stabbed him with his spear, releasing the poison across the city.
>not a incompetent, dumb fuck
Is there any youtube channel /v/ recomends to see a playthrough of dark souls 2 dlc? Preferably without some retarded memeing retard spouting shit, just pure gameplay.
I wanted to see the bits of DLC but I'm never touching this shitty game again.
>Seath was such a fucking lunatic about gaining immortality that the part of Gwyn's soul he was given became his soul from influence along
>and now he's basically an ancient evil like something out of Cthulu mythos
How far will Seath's memetic impression reach? Will we see his machinations in DaS 3?
Clearly you haven't played the game. You don't get the ancient dragon soul from the ancient dragon. You get a giant soul from the ancient dragon because he's an artificial dragon created by Aldia and is not an actual dragon. The ancient dragon soul is actually a fragment of gywns soul. Of course you would know this if you had actually played any of these games. You can stop posting now. You can't hide your ignorance.
How was that even a debate? 90% of deaths are a result of trauma/failure that results in the brain not getting enough blood to function. The other 10% is direct brain damage, so same effect. Percentages are made up, but you get the point. It's all in the brain.
I don't see how they can redeem the absolute fuckfest dark souls 2 did to the story.
Dark Souls 1's lore was pretty self-contained and dark souls 2 fucked it up to fanfiction levels of bad with this forced magical cycle that they pulled out so they could keep pumping out sequels of this shit with minimal effort.
It's simply unsalvageable. I wish Miyazaki would just pretend dark souls 2 was never a thing or actively ignores everything it's established with dark souls 3.
What's the difference between a computer when it's turned on and when it's turned off? It's made of all the same parts either way. Does it have a soul?
Living and dead bodies may be made of the same stuff there are reactions occurring in a living body that don't occur or occur differently in a dead one. The exact point of death may be difficult to define, but it's clearly a material phenomenon.
The people who call themselfs true fans are usually the ones who just want attention and might not like or appreciate the game as much as non "true" fans, go read all your lore and learn obscure trivial information but chances are I enjoyed game more than you fish faced ankle sniffers
>Soul of the great ancient dragon that stands magnificently, deep within the shrine.
This powerful being stands and waits, for whoever may visit him.
>Use the dragon soul, created by those who peered into the essence of the soul, to acquire numerous souls, or to create something of great worth.
Nice fanfic, i will subscribe
We asked the same question, which started a race war.
If you actually think DaS2 fucked the story then you weren't paying attention during either game.
The more likely scenario is that you saw this spouted on /v/ and decided to parrot it to fit in with the DaS2 hate meme.
Are you implying that this is Seath?
It's painfully obvious you're just reading the wiki and don't know anything. You get the Giants soul from the ancient dragon. You get the ancient dragons souls from the memory of the dragon that is manifested by seaths corpse after Freja. Your ignorance is so palpable it almost hurts. Really though I highly recommend you play these games instead of just reading about them. They're pretty great. Don't listen to everyone shitposting about dark souls 2 either. It's a fine game.
Absolutely yes. One of his various manifestations anyhow since thousands of years have passed since his ds1 incarnation. As man scorpion tark states his master can never be destroyed he simply changes form and "seethes" for eternity.
You still can't pinpoint where it says that Aldia recreated an "artificial" dragon and can't even explain what is a soul, how does it work, or where it says "true" dragons do not have a soul.
You are just weaving conclusions by setpieces at this point and getting mad because it's a fanfic, and moreso, the devs may not know what are they talking about.
Who's to say that in 500 years our core beliefs about science will stay the same? Science isn't infallible. It's based off our perception of the universe which is extremely limited.
I mean people in the future will likely look back and laugh at the stupidity of the shit we ingest daily.
>Dark Souls 2 is not cannon!!!
The dead dragon in Freja's room (whose memory you go into) is Seath. The ancient dragon is a different dragon, presumably one that Seath fucked up at the start of the age of fire.
In the boss room of Freja, after you get the Ashen Mist Heart, you can go back and access the memory of a dragon to get the Ancient Dragon Soul. Which you can make into the Curved Dragon Greatsword.
The fuck that doesn't look like Seath at all. Also who do you think is/was his master?
Where do you get all this information? how did you get to this conclusion?
Not trolling, maybe i'm confused, i missed something important, and you do know the answers we seek, oh great one.
>Dragons do not have soul
>But i have a fucking ANCIENT DRAGON SOUL HERE, IN MY HAND
>But my fanfic comes tumbling down if I accept this, and the fact that no flavor text reassures my fanfic
>I will call everyone idiots now, making me the victor.
Videogames on /v/.
>Aldia wants to escape from the curse by attaining immortality
>Dragons are immortal
>True dragons are extinct
>It has the soul of a completely different creature
Aldias lab is entirely comprised of research data and specimens that show he is obsessed with both dragons and Giants. Vendrick himself tells you that h and Aldia performed experiments in order to break the curse and achieve true immortality. The dragon skeleton in Aldias lab even reanimates and attacks you when you perform the ritual there. Clearly, Aldia was experimenting on both Giants and dragons. Then of course in the next area you encounter the dragon with the soul of a giant. The only kind of it's like in any of the souls game and he's located very close to Aldias lab. It's not direct evidence no but the implications are strong.
Dark souls 1 states itself that dragons did not have souls. Ancient dragons existed in a world of gray before souls even existed. It's right in the prologue. I mean honestly if you would just take the time to play these games you would know these things. I urge you to do so.
I don't think so, Watson. That's stupid. Why would you do that. You can't choke on souls. Or i think you can't. It's difficult to say, because Dark Souls doesn't have an explicit or consistent explanation to what is a soul and how can it work as currency, other than it grants power.
I mean it's loose enough to draw far fetched conclusions, and I almost understand it. But still, it's a fanfic.
Manscorpion speaks of seath. His master. He described him as overcome by madness and ever searching for the one thing he lacked as he was the last of his kind (a true dragon but he lacked the scales of immortality as he was born without him). He was driven quite mad in the Dukes archives in his never ending search for knowledge (just like big hat Logan was). When you kill Freja and obtain the paledrake soul (pale = white= seath) he tells you his master can never truly die and simply changes forms and "seeths" unendingly. Clearly, his master is seath.
The soul of seath likely influenced the duke and fueled his mania for spiders and drove him to madness just as seath was driven in his search for immortality.
Aldia's keep was full of experiments where they were doing all kinds of weird shit in creating beasts. In the far end of his keep was a giant cage where he kept dragons (you fight a dragon boss here), presumably to perform experiments on.
Many NPC in the game explain that Vendrick (I think) came really close to unlocking all the secrets of the soul. Vendrick was a king though, not a researcher. His researcher was his man Aldia.
When you first get to the dragon shrine, aldia kool-aid man's his way into your bonfire as if he was waiting for you there. There is also a shrine with a petrified egg at the top and a ring that gives a description about knight Raulmond who served the king by guarding the dragon shrine. He was serving the king and not the dragon, which is key. The dragon was a puppet of the king made by Aldia.
There's also several golem type enmies in the game that only become animated by having a soul put into them, so it's suggested that a soul is needed to bring constructs to life. For whatever reason (maybe the giants themselves were constructs), Aldia used a soul of a giant to animate his ancient dragon.
That's nice, and almost believable, but still it's an "strong implication" and not hard proof of anything. And you know, maybe it's because Dark Souls 2 isn't written by the original director, and they just forgot the prologue in the first game stated that Dragons do not have souls. As in they're made of stone, primordial beings that wander the vast nothing.
But it's not like you always found a "giant soul" in every dragon corpse. There was an Ancient Dragon soul, which is on a memory, but there is a fucking true and unadulterated Dragon Soul in your hands. It doesn't say "it's artificially engineered" or nothing like that.
It's a fucking Dragon Soul. Explicitly.
Bloodborne was originally meant to be a direct sequel to Demons Souls' good ending, in which the Old One is put to sleep and magic disappears from the world. This is evident by Father Gasgoine saying "Umbasa" in the beta. In Bloodborne, the humans attempt to contact other eldritch monstrosities just like the Old One (Great Ones).
Miyazaki succumb to pressure and removed the references to Demons, however, so if you're very try-hard you can argue they are now unrelated.
True I remember now. Maybe to control dragons and reanimate them you could fuse them with the Giant Souls, which are powerful and rare, so they could move again.
But the Ancient Dragon that died in the dream reminds of the old war against them, felled in battle, around the giant trees and the vast nothing in the background. That memory predates Aldia, and everything in DS2. It also holds its soul.
So I think Some dragons did have soul. Or the devs don't even know these answers, and they just slapped shit together because having dragons and shit is cool.
I realize that. But the ancient dragon isn't a true stone dragon that's the point. It's why the gaping dragon and sinh give you souls. It's also why seath lacked a soul and was given a fragment of gywns soul in order to achieve immortality and gain power. It's why the gaping dragon gives you his soul. Because true dragons do not have souls and the various offshoots do. The problem is gywn and nito and Italizth killed all the stone dragons and ended the age of gray. The only true dragon you encounter in all of the dark souls is game is the stone dragon in ash lake. Every other dragon is not a true, eternal, stone dragon.
So to answer the original question true dragons do not in fact have souls. Their various evolutionary offshoots do however.
>there's a difference between souls and "souls."
>But it's not like you always found a "giant soul" in every dragon corpse
Because those are actual dragons, you goddamn idiot. The fake dragon drops the exact same type of soul as the giants it got its soul from.
This is all conjecture. I've heard rumors that gascoigne did originally say umbasa but he certainly doesn't now and there is absolutely nothing that ties these games together in any sense. So yes demons souls isn't a prequel to anything.
No, Gascoigne saying Umbasa was a hidden easter egg in an area you werent supposed to be able to get to in the beta. May have even been added in on purpose as a thing because the point of a beta is trying to break the game and they know people would try to get into that area.
No I'm sorry. He does give souls but not "his" soul. As Autustic as it sounds there is a difference between souls and a soul. The gaping dragon is a mutation of the everlasting dragons that was still closely related enough not to possess a soul.
>the prologue in the first game stated that Dragons do not have souls
When does it say this? It talks about how they're true immortals and never die, but it doesn't say they don't have souls.
The real answer is that dragons don't have souls, but the DaS2 devs forgot, so they made an oopsie by giving the Ancient Dragon a soul.
That's what happens when you make a game without Miyazaki.
It's not. Seath has that unique scaleless look. Seath's soul somehow found its way to either the duke or his spider, much like how the old witch soul is with the lost sinner, gwyn's soul with old iron king, etc.
The duke was influenced by Seath's soul and somehow got his hands on a dead dragon, using that to empower his spider as a new body for Seath.
The dragons in DS2 are not like the ancient stone dragons of yore. The game tells you, that Aldia tried to recreate the old dragons using the souls of Giants.
You don't get a soul from Kalameet, and Seath got "his soul" from Gwym. It's safe to assume the Ancient Dragon and Sinh are just products of Aldia's research.
That's cause, not effect.
What is the actual change that occurs that makes someone alive or not alive
plenty of people have survived cardiac arrest whereas others only need minor trauma and the brain's autoregulation can't keep up.
But whats the actual change?
>It's not. Seath has that unique scaleless look
You're right, it doesn't really look like Seath. I just assumed it was Seath's ancient corpse because of the brightstones and Seath's affinity for crystals. Like Tseldora was built on top of what used to be the crystal caves.
So it's just a random nameless ancient dragon that died in the age of ancients? And the body in its memory, is that its own body or the one that ends up in Aldia's Keep?
It seemed to me that the dead dragon in Tseldora was just a fossil from the old war, and Aldia used it as a basis to create the "Ancient" Dragon in the shrine.
The Dragons in DS2 are like the Carbons are to Humans in Megaman Legends, they look like something but are fundamentally not.
His memory seems to be happening at the end of the age of dragons. You are actually at the top of an arch tree. So yeah, probably a random dragon corpse.
I think the skeleton in Aldia and the fake one in Dragon shrine are other random dragon corpses.
no it's not Seath what the fuck. it looks completely different.
Seath has arms, fly-like, transparent wings and tentacles.
That's the skeleton of the big fat ancient dragon that died in the war against Gwyn & co.
Seath's mind, or whatever is left of him is in the crystals in Tseldora.
They originally did not have souls, but when the disparity of the first flames birth set in life and death became a factor and thus, overtime, they developed souls as they were now mortal. This is how drakes came into existence, true dragons could no longer be born.
In Dark Souls most people assume that because dragons are outside the cycle they didn't have souls, with the exception being drakes who were degenerate.
Then DaS2 has you pick up an ancient dragon soul and everyone used that to say the game was fucking the lore.
Seath was scaleless and thus mortal, and his power ironically was based on souls.
I think Seath was full of souls before Gwyn gave him the chunk, as souls are fluid and can be exchanged in the dark souls universe.
What the fuck is wrong with the entire souls fandom, even the fucking wiki theory section ignores this.
The description of the ancient dragon soul states:
>created by those who peered into the essence of the soul
> created by those who peered into the essence of the soul
>. created by those who peered into the essence of the soul
AS IN NOT REAL, ARTIFICIAL, FAKE, BECAUSE REAL DRAGONS DON'T HAVE REAL SOULS*, THAT'S THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE SETTING
WHY ARE YOU FUCKS EVEN ARGUING THIS
*Seath did weird shit to his portion of the lord soul so he's an odd case, but it wasn't his soul to begin with and that's the point