Because everyone seems to assume "MMO" either means shitty WoW clone, or shitty Everquest clone when Everquest and kin weren't extinct.
Technically speaking, games like WoT and WT could be considered MMOs, but most of them group them into the vehicular combat genera since they have more in common with games like CS and TF2 than they do MMOs.
>>322854347 Because people feel entitled to some unreasonable and unreachable expectations.
MMOs have been promoted as this miracle machines that will fullfill all your hopes and dreams, but honestly there's not much room for improvement, you end up with shallow gimmicks and half assed worlds and abilities that do the same with a different animation.
The ceiling for mmos has been lifted so high that it's really hard to reach, and every new mmo needs to push the limit some more to attract customers, while keeping them happy with their expecations from previous titles, so they end up with very little room for improvement and usually they don't even care if the game is interesting or not.
The problem is average mmo players don't really play more than 1 mmo at the same time, so the next big mmo has to be enough to separate them from their current game, and mmos are anything but cheap compared to other genres, you have to create a fuckton of assets and an entire world that seems somewhat interesting, get the best concept with big titty ladies and somehow justify your game having a sub fee or a jew cash shop.
People never seem to complain how similar Mortal Kombat is to Street Fighter, or KoF, or BB, or GG, or MvC etc... but when it comes to mmos everyone goes oh it's the same fucking shit... why does this mmo play like an mmo and not like Devil May Cry? or a racing game? or an RTS? or a fucking bowling game? why can't I be a pirate? why can't I make my own clothes? why can't I be a loli stripper? why can't I be a black enterpreneur? why can't I ride a jetbike? why can't I dual wield shields? omg no pantsu slot this game is dead on arrival.
>>322855418 Honestly? At this point in time? Probably FFXIV, but even that's in a bad spot. WoW will probably retake it's throne when Legion comes out unless something massively amazing comes along before then.
>>322855965 no it wont Sega believes that they dont need to localize their game because the fans already do it, and its THEIR work around to get passed legal issues to get players their cross over anime shit
people from around the world are already playing it in droves
>>322855965 Don't bother, come and play the Japanese version. Full English patches included with tweaker, English community's on Ship2, tons of content including a lot of crossover shit you'll never see come to NA.
Tweaker, basically a launcher, downloader, patcher etc. Get it: http://arks-layer.com/
And here's registration directions. http://www.bumped.org/psublog/phantasy-star-online-2-pre-open-beta-registration-guide/
Because they all use the linear model of either grind quests to progress story and gain levels or grind mobs to gain money and levels for armor.
As it turns out the game's setting, characters, and story really doesn't matter if you're doing the same shit. The point of an MMO is doing shit in an online world. When you look further into the past at games like Runescape, Ultima, and Everquest a lot of times character levels are a reflection of how much game content the character has consumed. Yes there was always grinding but it wasn't limited just to killing mobs or doing quests. There were plenty of things that could be done to gather xp, armor, new ingame options and areas, etc.
>>322856392 This could be ultra lucrative, but you'll never see it because investors won't back anything that isn't a WoW clone. You'd have to wait for some Donald Trump or Elon Musk type character to come along and fund it completely himself for it to work.
MMOs are such a mindless grindfest these days. I used to enjoy grinding mindlessly, grinded well over 65 reps to exalted in WoW but it just doesn't have the same appeal anymore for some reason. Every dev seems to be under the impression that time consuming = fun, so it takes fucking forever to accomplish things in MMOs instead of being fun and challenging, they force players to do tedious and repetitive tasks for minimal reward.
If the content was made to be much more challenging and much faster to get to (leveling to max doesn't take a month) then the genre would be much better. I can't get into anything atm because leveling always feels like a chore. That being said, I do occasionally get into FFXIV because I love the aesthetic and world, but grinding is always off-putting for me.
>>322856387 even gta online has to be an RPG. Its annoying, why cant it just be a world of limited resources with timed resource respawns where you can play random MMO quests and get cool stuff, GTA isnt about levels and grinding its about getting that cheddar.
>>322855357 I disagree with your comparison between fighting games and MMOs. Fighting games heavily prioritize the PvP aspect, and in PvP, every match is different because there's a large variety in playable characters and opponents.
PvE tends to be the bigger part of MMOs, especially since PvE is the main leveling system in most MMOs and is also a method of obtaining endgame gear. People are of course going to get bored and call it all the same shit if leveling and endgame consist of farming the same dungeons and AI mobs, so they're more likely to demand new content and features.
People would complain all the same if fighting games had you farm the same CPU enemies over and over to get gear that boosts your character's stats and abilities.
>>322856514 Don't be posting the good bosses though, let anon play it. DF Loser blew my fucking mind and he's still one of my favorite bosses of all time. Like, in vidya. When he was new and crazy hard, of course.
>>322856806 >start wildstar with a guild on launch >by the time we reach the first raid we had cycled through 95% of our players >had to absorb several other guilds just to get enough good players to do the first raid >by the time we've finished the first raid there literally aren't even enough players on our server that are good enough to do the 40 man.
>>322856806 Wildstar as a whole was very uninteresting and bland though. I enjoyed that it was challenging when it first came out, but still lost interest quickly. The combat was such a mess too, especially in PVP...
>>322856782 Not the furthest, it at least has MMO lobbies and constant means of communication between anyone at any time, but, whatever.
I think DDO has the best formula out there. Open world, but with a limited party at a time. Allows for progression and dynamic shit, instead of "our world is in danger, run into this field and kill some soldiers that have just been standing there for years and respawning". Or, so I'd expect.
>>322857041 >aren't even enough players on our server that are good enough to do the 40 man to be fair though, 40 man datascape was just overtuned. the people who raided those first few months basically beta tested the raids so carbine could fix them later. so it came as a surprise to no one when 40 ds was changed to 20 man.
>>322857239 this is the mentality that contributed to wildstar's downfall, I think. some people thinking vet dungeons or raids are just too hard for them. wildstar is hardcore in the same way dark souls is hardcore, which is to say it's not very. it just requires a level of competence and knowledge.
To be technically speaking, any game that incorporates more than 2 players on a single server is technically an MMO a la S4 League or Pangya, it's just that everyone assumes MMO means WoW/Everquest and all its shit derivatives
>>322857680 You're overestimating the MMO player base though. We went through 30+ applicants while we were getting everyone attuned to the first raid and most of them could just not handle the most basic shit.
I just want to play as my character in a living, breathing world. For MMO's it should be easy, since other people do this really easily. But for whatever reason, games continue to give everyone WoW's solo everything treatment.
I miss being able to make lasting friends while playing video games.
>>322854347 Because there has been one truly successful mmo, a handful that stayed afloat, and a landfill of garbage. They all tried to get as many players as possible with as little creativity imaginable.
>>322857680 yes but the problem is the average mmo player isn't playing an mmo expecting a dark souls experience, mmos are usualyl laid back experiences where you grow over time by spending hours upon hours in character progression.
I played Wildstar on release, bought the game and all, and let me tell you probably 80-90% of the dungeons I ended up 3 maning every boss, the pugs were so bad, like god damn terrible, they didn't even want to talk, and couldn't stay outside of the red shit, every single run was a nightmare and a waste of repair money.
You can't have a game that requires a degree of skill when your average customer comes from much more forgiving games, at least for me it was a super frustrating experience, even if I liked the dungeons playing them was no fun because you're not alone doing them, you depend on the other random fucktards. And the daily island being the only way to progress on top of that was just the icing on the cake to quit the game.
>>322858005 This is what modern MMO players don't understand. They don't want to need other players for shit, but then they complain when nobody communicates. Of course nobody is gonna say shit when you might as well be playing with bots who you'll never see again after 5 minutes.
But that's the shit that made old MMOs so great. Wanted to do anything in FFXI? Gotta get that group and you end up making friends. Wanna grind shit in RO? Gotta get that group and you end up making friends. When everything you do is solo you don't need to make friends and so most people won't and the apathy only grows from there. A normally chipper player will stop trying to make friends after a few failed tries and this keeps happening.
We need hard MMOs with low technical skill, but high dedication back. Allow us to chat while fighting and need help from others to do shit.
>>322858005 How about making an MMO game mechanic wherein you increase your affinity to a particular PC. The higher the affinity, the more buffs you get. For instance, higher affinity to a healer allows you to receive higher heal points. Higher affinity to bard-type characters allows you to receive higher rates to percentage-based buffs.
>>322857982 I don't doubt you burned through shitters while looking to build your ds roster. I guess what I'm saying is some people just don't want to make the effort to git gud. there's a 50 year old school teacher in our guild who got good enough to raid with us. if she can do it I'm sure a neet who does nothing but play vidya all day can too. it's not exactly hard.
>>322854347 1) Because MMOs are an enormous investment in terms of money and time with an even greater amount of risk. When your greatest hope of making an MMO is to barely break even, you're going to play it safe and copy what works
2) Because the genre is still a bit young, both in terms of time and in terms of willingness to innovate and expand (due to the previous point)
3) Because we just don't have the technology and tools to make a truly sandbox dynamic open world with enough freedom to actually feel like you are virtually living in a virtual world. Even games like Eve have to abstract all the gameplay and visuals to practically spreadsheet levels to mimic the mere semblance of an open, player-driven sandbox.
1. All MMOs believe they have to be like WoW to be successful. All stats have been changed to WoW stats, all builds are "raise this stat endlessly", all raids are the same fucking raids.
2. Most MMO players have an ideal MMO that they've already played and if the new game isn't like it they don't want to play it.
3. Everything has been done to death with very little room for variation or creativity. Most sell because they let people be little girls and give them clothes for dress-up.
4. Video games in general have moved to a more competition-oriented market, with the rise of MUH ESPORTS and crap like that.
5. Most people simply don't want to spend time grinding, killing the same pig ten times in a row, for a reward that just gives them the stats to kill the dire pig ten times in a row for the next quest.
Basically, MMOs are deprecated and used. Action MMOs and stuff that emulates Monster Hunter/Diablo still has potential, but they need to remove the current MMO system of leveling through grinding to do so.
The only MMO I'm looking forward to right now is Black Desert. It has its issues, judging from the KR version, but after playing the NA beta, it's the first MMO in a long while that has kept me hooked. It's also one of the few recent MMOs that at least tries to not become like WoW.
I'm just hoping they change a few things with the PvP and cash shop. No need to turn it into another ArcheAge blunder.
>>322859857 If you don't care about p2w endgame and only want fun-things-are-fun-mindless-grinding go with TERA, play a melee or a gunner, most enjoyable combat system in a mmo without beeing overly complicated, go solo bosses or 5man instances. And the world is real eyecandy.
after playing ancient WoW with friends on our shitty pc's and pre cu swg even nge swg as well as the first guild wars for a while, i think i'm ruined when it comes to mmo's. i could never reduce myself to being able to enjoy some of the shit that's out now. i think i played the old republic for like 40 minutes before uninstalling -- what a fucking dogshit game. i can't imagine how masochistic you'd have to be to regularly play something like that or guild wars 2 or whatever. plus i'll definitely never pay a subscription for any game ever again so
i just want to player bounty hunt and fly an a-wing again man
Developers need to take a step back from just dropping in as much shitty content as possible and give players the tools they need to make their own content. It's simple.
For example, make a game with 4 major cities with differing themes that players can live in. You can sell your goods on an Auction house, but it only sells in one city. Therefore, if there is a hole in once cities market, a smart player can sell some shit there instead.
Make a system where players can only carry so much weight, so they have to put their goods in a caravan to take over there.
Make it so that outside of cities banditry is an option.
Now the caravan has to hire guards.
Now heading down the road to sell your shit of your own initiative is a tense and fun thing to do with actual rewards and risks, and the developers didn't have to make a shitty questline.
Take that shit a step further, maybe allow players to elect each other to positions of power and shit, now all of a sudden playing politics, declaring wars, having commanders, alliances, troops, a good economy, etc etc is all important automatically. It emerges from the fact that players actually have a stake in what other players do. The game is now an MMO for a reason, people are banding together like they should to achieve goals.
I don't really like EVE online because the community and gameplay are shit, but it really has a solid base that should be applied to a more conventional MMO.
Because the market is now full of players who either don't really like mmos and want progression or just want single player mechanics that provide easy rewards rather than dedication.
Hence why safe themeparks that emphasize single player driven quests/story, cutscenes, and setpieces take precedent over creating living worlds and mechanics to foster communities. The market is a direct result of the majority, and the majority are people who probably just played WoW on a novelty and only want games to be 'more like X' rather than actual MMOs.
The problem is that developers listened because they wanted some of that deep sub change, so now western MMO development is dead so they can chase after the MOBA crowd.
VR will save MMO. Someone will feel compelled to make a Sword Art Onlne MMO and, even though it will be kind of shitty, the novelty of VR and reliance on player interaction (due to the devs being too incompetent to implement streamlined features of modern MMO) will make it the best MMO seen in years.
>>322864061 That's literally everything Black Desert has, aside from the city politics. Robbing caravans isn't that rewarding though, and the karma penalty is retarded on the KR server so no one actually wants to kill each other.
>>322854347 MMOs are severely limited by their very concept since we don't really have the technology to realize them yet.
Just look at multiplyer games that aren't MMOs like the Souls games or Monster Hunter. They already have issues with hitboxes and collision detection as is. MMOs have no skill dodges. You real aiming. And they are all horribly bogged down since they can't properly communicate back and forth through servers without screwing up the game.
>>322865156 It's true it keeps BRs and shit out, and it's not even that pricey, I just hate the thought of sinking a bunch of money into something like that. I already did it with WoW once and regret it.
>>322865324 But the character creator is so in-depth that you can literally make whatever you want. You're not constrained to playing anime lookalikes. The game's theme is pretty far from that department anyway.
>>322860054 >solo till cap The true death of the MMO and yet everyone clamors for it. People have such fond memories of RO, FFXI, UO, and other such games because they were forced to interact and share their misery with others. When you have to talk to people you end up building friendships and sharing adventures. What we've learned from modern MMOs is that people will not interact in any meaningful way unless they are forced to and don't have mega servers to fall back on. Bring back accountability, misery, and low technical skill, high dedication difficulty and you'll bring back the golden future of MMOs.
>>322867447 Yeah, no shit. Each classes have like what? 5 skills to use, and like 3 builds at most per classes, which revolve around maxing few skills and nothing else. Everything related about combat is literally 1-2 buttons spam
If they can't balance that shit might as well quit living.
>>322865197 crushed dreams and halcyon days that will never return. Fuck you, Everquest. Fuck you for destroying the MMORPG genre. Even today it is a pile of shit that has almost nothing to do with MUDs
really enjoying STO currently, but I'm a huge star trek faggot and I just love pretending to be the captain of a starfleet vessel.
it kinda just makes me want a fleshed out offline Star Trek RPG with a lot of the same mechanics tuned up to 11, though. there are so many things in STO that might've been really good if they'd been given more love during development, but you can tell they were just an afterthought because the team wanted to churn out more and more content for people to grind through.
publishers and accounting be like "hurr WoW had 12m subs that means due to bla bla market forces bla bla target demographic bla bla projected growth, overall we can hope to attract 20m to OUR mmo in 4 years hehexD"
and then that target demographic didn't exist and then WoW was just an anomaly and then everyone that loved making money by publishing games was sad.
>>322854347 >WoW comes out when I'm in college >get addicted as hell >spend every waking moment playing >sitting in the Undercity one day just leveling up some mundane Engineering stuff for fun >realize that I'm spending hours and hours just increasing random numbers that don't mean anything >I've spent the past several months just increasing profile numbers >the game will never end >this shit will never end >I could be doing so many other things, or, at the very least, actually enjoying other games
>>322864782 >Robbing caravans isn't that rewarding though, and the karma penalty is retarded on the KR server so no one actually wants to kill each other.
And this is the main problem with MMORPGs today in that everyone just wants to min-max everything because no one has the time to spend on actually enjoying the game. That was the byproduct of opening up MMORPGs to the mainstream. No one really wants to spend hours doing something or doing it in less than optima fashion because it's more fun that way.
>>322867641 >Yeah, no shit. Each classes have like what? 5 skills to use, and like 3 builds at most per classes, which revolve around maxing few skills and nothing else.
It's almost like classes have specific roles they fulfill in the ecosystem of game's classes or something. This whole "everyone can do everything and play it YOUR way" shit is what ruined the genre. Solo entitlement has been the cancer upon MMORPGs since WoW advocated for it.
>>322869665 Well yes. I don't think MMORPGs should be trying to tell a story, they should have a really well developed setting and lore while providing players with the tools to tell their own stories. Problem is most players nowadays basically want singleplayer RPGs with occasional people running around and some end-game.
I'm surprised they never shut down GW1. I guess the one good thing everybody calling those korean faggots out on shutting down City of Heroes out of nowhere was that Arenanet wrangled a promise to be able to keep their servers running the original GW. The servers that Anet stole from Paragon Studios.
>>322870180 This is the feeling I always get. When I was a kid I went hard into WoW. It came out in my freshman year of high school and my entire high school life was dominated by WoW, but then the summer after my senior year I was sitting around waiting for a raid and that same realization hit me like a sack of bricks. I just had to leave the house and do something else. I still play WoW to this day, but only with friends. I don't bother doing anything on my own because that same feeling hits me every time.
>>322871676 holy fuck. I bought that game a long ass time ago and thought about playing it recently but what the fuck. going f2p is the absolute worst shit ever. I'm expecting br's and cheeki breeki if i ever go back.
>GW2 is in beta >get an invite >try it out and I'm not impressed >talk to buddies about it near release >they're all getting it and wanna all play on the same server >this group of friends consists of about 12 people or so >I might as well get it so I can play with them >get in and play with them for a few levels but different work schedules splits us up early on so we each go to soloing >after a week finally get to max level >check friends list >most of them only made it to 20-40 >talk to them about GW2 >"nah dude, it was boring, we're going back to playing WoW" >mfw
>>322872662 >>322872532 >In skype call with friends >They start talking about TERA >They get me to download it >We all level together >I start getting a bit ahead of them because I like shitting on nerds in pvp as a healer racoon cat called Donut steel >Get really close to max level >Everyone fucking quits
>In skype call once again >They're talking about Final Fantasy 14 >I'm a massive fan of the series >They convince me to get the demo >Really like how comfy it is + all the little stuff it had over f2p mmos >Decide to buy it >They won't run anything with me
>"Hit level 50 (Before Heavensward) and I'll run dungeons with you" >Put a week's effort into hitting 50 and beating msq >Ignored for weeks >Meet really nice people who hunt with me >I tell my friends to stop being complete fucks >They start being assholes >Leave FC >Join Hunt squad's FC >All my friends do is talk shit about how my FC is full of shitters >My FC is full of supportive people who, up until it died when our leader left, were willing to run any sort of dungeon or trial for fun because they genuinely liked helping out
Fuck your friends. Join a guild with nice people in it and roll with it. Don't care if they're not good, you can help them get better. MMOs are about community, and you're not going to get that if you leave because your faggot friends left or whatever.
No such thing as levels, skills and spells can be learned and retained. Random item from unsafe "overflow" inventory is dropped on death, as well as a random amount of gold (1-10% of your total.) No quicktravel, pick your starting city, deal with its politics. Guilds can take over raid dungeons by fulfilling various requirements (basically have that shit on lockdown and grind.) It then becomes their guild headquarters, it can still be raided for the guilds things by other players. Guilds can own cities if they kill the lord/guards of that city. They get taxes and levies by doing so, but pay for mercenary guards to protect it. If they choose not to, it basically becomes like the wilderness, lawless with caravan npc merchants that can be killed for gold. Permanent capitals can send out armies to take over guild halls/cities. Secret classes/weapon/builds that can be discovered by making consistently themed characters. Crafting system that boils down to - Use X materials to build Y, X metal is best for blunt weapons, while this one is better for sharp or piercing, etc. Creates unique weapons you can name. All inventory that doesn't fit in your personal bag must be kept in the world somewhere, and it can be stolen.
>322872662 >friends want to play game >convince me to play >i get bored so i grind out the game without advancing the story because our schedules are fucked most of the time and never take advantage of the time when we can >we play together >whine that it's too easy because im too strong >they eventually stop >I eventually stop
>a wide variety of races to play that DON'T LOOK LIKE TINY HUMAN, LONG EAR HUMAN, HUMAN WITH A REALLY LONG BEARD AND ANIMAL HUMAN >you can interact withthe world around you, like you can raid castles, cities and villages and actually claim them until you get raided back >a great story >you should be able to choose your stand. Are you a peasant, a soldier or a hobo? >no fucking loot tables, let bosses drop a currency and py what you want with the currency >random world events
>>322873908 My ideal MMO has stats that have an actual effect in the world. STR required for moving boulders, debris, walls, or other blockades. DEX/AGI required for climbing vines, ropes, and shit. INT for dispelling barriers or divining artifacts.
I want to have an adventure in a world. Not take a ride on a themepark. Say there's a boulder that requires a combined total of 30 STR to move. Well you get 6 friends all with 5 STR and you move that motherfucker where ever you want; in front of a gate, in the way of a path, or even just push it out of the way into a lake. I want a world where the player shapes it at least for a little while, but I want this in a fantasy setting. EVE doesn't interest me.
I'd like to see an mmo that has no quests, just requests from actual players for crafting supplies that drop off X animal, or completely wiping out the food supply for Y monster so your competitors can't stock up on whatever ingredient you just got a monopoly on.
>>322874413 To be fair, the half translated UI is really annoying. I got super fucking confused playing through just because I couldn't tell what half the things were saying. Had to get my bros to explain that shit to me.
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