I played Indigo Prophecy a while ago on the PS2 and I just played through, and finished, Heavy Rain. Both were pretty good (Heavy Rain far more so; at least it tries a lot harder to stay grounded in reality) although the acting is far below average, especially for 2010. I know David Cage gets a lot of flak for making "not games" but I gotta say that I respect his drive. He said in an interview that he doesn't want to make sequels just because.
>"It's about creating a brand that is the name of the creator, not Heavy Rain 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 12."
>"Let me be stupid for one second; I'm not in this business to make money. I wrote Heavy Rain because I was excited about it."
Of course, then he turns around and does a remaster of Indigo Prophecy but whatever. Anyway, what's the general opinion on the guy? How's Beyond Two Souls? I might play it sometime but it seems to go more in the direction of Indigo Prophecy, which irks me a little. Then again, the supernatural is introduced as part of the story right from the start, so maybe it's not so bad?
You know, that bugs me a lot too. If I'm not mistaken, his first game, Omnikron for the Dreamcast, wasn't a very big hit. Neither was Indigo Prophecy, although it did get him a few fans and was generally considered a cult hit. For all intents and purposes, though, Quantic Dream should've ended there.
But then he goes and makes Heavy Rain, which kind of saved him. It sold well, riding almost entirely on hype, and allowed him to make Beyond Two Souls. I don't think that was a great money maker, though, and I doubt Indigo Prophecy's HD Remaster made a ton either. Whatever his next game is, if it doesn't sell great like Heavy Rain did then it's really gotta be over for him.
I don't want to see the guy fail but it's crazy how much funding he gets for so little return. Maybe he purposely doesn't pay himself much and cuts corners wherever he can to keep costs low? If that's true, you gotta respect the guy for at least his passion alone.
I don't give a shit that he makes "cinematic" games, you can enjoy those all you want.
David Cage is a fucking terrible writer. Indigo Prophecy shits itself the hardest i've ever seen a game do, and it was already pretty crappy in the middle, but the ending turns it into voodoo matrix and is the worst thing i have ever seen.
Heavy Rain is clearly a french guy going "THIS IS WHAT AMERICA IS LIKE RIGHT?" fucking live chickens in a supermarket, kids getting sucked into drain pipes with water going as fast as a waterfall. Also hiring french kids to do american accents was the worst. THen the game straight up lies to you so you can go "wow, HE was the killer the whole time?!?!" when you are playing as that character when he kills a person, but it plays out as if he discovered the body. Fucking trash, at least try and write a competent twist, not bullshitting your way through it.
Beyond Two Souls is the worst he's written, it's not presented in chronological order for no fucking reason. The main character is treated like hobo jesus, the forced love story makes no sense, and the reasons behind her powers are so stupid i wanted to kill myself.
Detroit already looks like it's going to be shit, i bet the story will be "no am a i real girl" "no you are not" "yes i am" "oh i guess you and all robots are real people okay then i was wrong" and there also be a shower scene because he's a perverted fuck.
Fuck David Cage.
>fucking live chickens in a supermarket
Not to nitpick or be specific but, yes, that shit exists. Maybe not quite in Philadelphia but I've seen that shit in a market south of Miami in Florida. Anyway, that was such a minor section that came and went in the span of two seconds; it's hardly a fair complaint.
>kids getting sucked into drain pipes with water going as fast as a waterfall
This was fucking ridiculous, yes. If this is the stupidest thing in the story, though, then I can deal with it. It should've been different though. I don't know why Johnny didn't just fall down a well or a manhole with no ladder or some shit. The whole "my leg is stuck" shit could've still worked then too.
>Also hiring french kids to do american accents was the worst
Yeah, this sucked but keep in mind that it's supposed to be a French game. It's not that much different than bad English voice actors for a Japanese game, which is way more common. That being said, the quality of voice acting throughout was pretty bad but the kids were definitely the worst, which is a shame considering that it's a story driven game.
>at least try and write a competent twist, not bullshitting your way through it
It's a well known literary technique known as "unreliable narrative" or "unreliable protagonist" and it's more common than you think. Most of the Saw movies (or at least 1, 2, and 4, as far as I recall) hides the antagonist on screen for at least half the movie. Fight Club is an especially famous example in which the protagonist is revealed to have a split personality, which was a nice red herring thrown into Heavy Rain. In my opinion, Heavy Rain handled the unreliable narrative pretty well, although it is insanely annoying that Ethan's blackouts wasn't explored or explained more thoroughly.
>there also be a shower scene because he's a perverted fuck
Honestly, this sounds like a French thing to me. They've always gotta have shower scenes with tits out. I just let it pass and move on.
Indigo Prophecy was pretty damn bad from a storytelling standpoint, so there's not much to defend there. The gameplay and branching narrative was nice, but it's annoying that even when you try and keep everyone alive, the story writes them out of the plot anyway.
Haven't played Beyond Two Souls yet. Haven't heard about Detroit either so I'm going to look into that sometime.
I wish I could say I finished Beyond Two Souls so I could tell people how bad it is, but I got bored of it really quickly and I feel bad because I got it as a birthday present the year it came out.
Indigo Prophecy was the product of someone with ADHD.
The storyline is absurd. You start the game as a crime solver with a hook (You play BOTH the criminal and the detective pursuing him!) but then it morphs into this Matrix ripoff QTE Simon Says game and then it goes full fucking retard with this AREA 51 WAS REAL I GREW UP THERE BUT IT WASN'T AYYLIUMS IT WAS MAYAN TIME TRAVELLERS!!!! Y2K IT'S HAPPENING!!! WHERE IS JOHN CONNER? and at some point in this rushed mish-mash of unrelated bullshit the Detective and Criminal fall in love and bang just because Internet Jesus needed to get his rocks off or something.
>kids getting sucked into drain pipes with water going as fast as a waterfall
Yo i grew up in north Queensland, and storm water drains can in fact be that dangerous. We used to get PSA's and lessons in school about them. These were prompted by a few tragedies involving kids getting sucked in. Admittedly it may have looked a bit goofy in the game, however, the premise was definitely grounded in reality for me.
Yeah, Indigo Prophecy got off the rails really, really fucking bad. As long as it stayed more grounded, it would have been alright. It should've just been some crazy ritual murder spree or some shit, not too dissimilar from the serial killings in Silent Hill 4, but once the main character literally flew into the air and started a DBZ fight, I think most players just threw their hands up and walked away for good.
I stuck around because I figured it couldn't get much more ridiculous. Then the old lady turned out to be a super AI or some shit and I had to applaud the writers for somehow managing to step it up yet another notch. AND THE STORY KEPT FUCKING GOING ON TOP OF THAT.
David Cage's games are pretty ripe for Rifftrax though. I'm surprised Retsupurae or Chip Cheezum hasn't tried any of them.
Wow, seriously? That's crazy. But why are they just left open like that? The one in the game was in a construction site so I guess the workers still needed to patch that hole up but I can't imagine it being such a serious problem as to require PSA's and shit.
But why is it needed though, aside from titillation? I mean, don't get me wrong I certainly don't mind, I just don't see the point is all. It's especially bad in Heavy Rain, though, since she literally showered in her dream. Come the fuck on.
What about giant apartments?
That's pretty standard
When's that coming out? me and my friend have a bad habit of getting barrel loads of whiskey and playing david cage games (out of necessity, telltale)
I'll be upset if the apartment doesn't cover square miles of land and takes up half the diskspace, desu.
Anyone else feel that (besides everything) the worst part of beyond is that you get a 3 hour navajo section that is better than the rest of the game?
It even has the best shower scene
>What about giant apartments?
That's a good fucking point. The main character's apartment in Indigo Prophecy was a bit much, but Madison's apartment in Heavy Rain was fucking stupid. Is it even supposed to be an apartment? Why the fuck are there three shower heads, all lined up next to each other? I have never seen a bathroom set up like that before, and meant for a single person.
>even has the best shower scene
I haven't played Beyond Two Souls but I assume that means I get delicious Ellen Page titties?
Or lack thereof, rather
How was Ethan's house in the prologue of Heavy Rain smaller than Madison's apartment? Studio apartment or not, that shit was a joke. I can only imagine the 3D graphic artist who had to put it together.
>So, how big do you want Madison's apartment to be Mr. Cage?
>*thousand yard stare*
>Mr.... Mr. Cage?
>I want it....... big.......
>Do not disappoint me, Anon......
>I'm a CIA Ghost Gal
>That means I can afford a 25,000 sq foot apartment in downtown (Chicago?)
Does David Cage not know how cities work?
I do not have an answer for this.
The closest I can get is that, from a storytelling point of view, the main characters are given large, elaborate homes in order to emphasize their importance in the story. That's not a good enough reason for me, though.
>Heavy Rain far more so; at least it tries a lot harder to stay grounded in reality
Wait until you get to the ending. Not to give too much away, but there's a glaring plot hole so big that even a lot of video game reviewers picked up on it. It turned out that the ending twist was so bad that someone higher up (I'm guessing from Sony) actually intervened and told Cage to take it out, even though it leaves one plot thread completely unresolved. They basically said, "We don't care if it's important to the plot, take it out."
Here's the plot hole for those interested:
Ethan has these blackouts that just stop at one point in the story and are never explained. He always wakes up with an origami in his hand and children go missing, making him believe he's the origami killer, even though it turns out that he's not. The reason he has blackouts whenever children go missing? During Ethan's accident at the beginning of the game, the real origami killer was at the scene, and the two developed a psychic link. When the origami killer kidnaps a child, Ethan blacks out.
I forgot that he stopped having those blackouts with no explanation. A convenient plot device they just magically got rid of. All in all what made the game for me was nahman jayden. His accent was cheesy as hell, but he was a damn good cop.
Heavy Rain is probably his best modern game. It offers a good blend of story and character development that actually makes you care about the characters you play as. Even though it's unrealistic at some points, at least it tries to stay grounded in reality. Also, the branching paths system was very nice in that you can actually change the outcome of the story and scenes within it to a reasonable extent, something that Telltale hasn't managed to get right for years.
Indigo Prophecy's plot when to complete shit halfway through. Even if it was leading up to the supernatural, how it was handled was nonsensical and poorly paced. The gameplay was also retarded with the whole Simon Says thing.
Beyond2Souls had similar problems in that the story jumps all over the place. It's supposed to be a 'eureka' moment when you come to the end and understand why it was told that way, but that doesn't change how shitty it was. It's also terrible from a gameplay perspective since it's heavily simplified and you can't affect the story in any way until the end.
That's barely a plot hole though since it plays absolutely no importance in the story and was dropped not even a 1/3 of the way through the game. If I recall, Ethan wasn't even being hunted by the police because of his blackouts, but because he mysteriously disappeared and his wife thought he was insane.
There are two big plot holes in Heavy Rain:
1) Shelby's existence. You can claim unreliable narrator, but it's a very big stretch to assume everything he says has a double meaning. It would only work if he either has schizophrenia or he is sociopathic and divorced from guilt. 2) The entire fake killer arc. How did Shleby even know about the fake origami killer when even the police didn't know about him?